On Feb 5, 2008 6:15 AM, Joerg Schilling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Shawn Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > While I wish that there were better options than GNU userland in terms > > of functionality, the reality is that the majority of the open source > > world has chosen the GNU toolset, for better or worse, as their > > toolset of choice. > > There is of course a better choice: foster the UNIX tools instead of merely > leaving them alone for more than 10 years.
The past cannot be changed Joerg. Arguing about the past is fruitless. The point is where we are at now. > > Wasting precious resources on attempting to reinvent the GNU wheel, > > all in the name of (mostly) pride and arrogance, isn't going to win > > any battles. > > I am not sure what you are talking about: GNU tools in many cases reinvent the > wheel - even if you are talking about free implementations (star is 4 years > older than GNU tar and smake is 5 years older than GNU make, I am sure there > are a lot more similar examples). I wasn't talking about reinventing other wheels; only the GNU wheel. > But even switching to a "GNU userland" is not the solution for an unattended > UNIX userland. Switching to software that is maintained by other people still > only works for a short period of time if you do not like to spend the time for > dealing with upstream enhancements/fixes. > > And last but not least: a few years ago, there was a discussion on c.u.s about > "slow Solaris sort(1)" and it turned out that GNU sort did not support to sort > e.g Japanese text..... After GNU sort was enhanced, it was much slower than > GNU sort and the GNU sort maintainer (Paul Eggert) asked Sun to put sort under > an OSS license. You seee, other people are interested in UNIX tools! I didn't say that all tools should replace what Solaris has. The GNU userland is an appropriate choice in many cases though for developer familiarity. > Finally (you have been warned already), I need to explain how OSS works with > respect to integrating new features: Warned? I wasn't aware there were rules. > If Sun publishes a new developer version ov ON_NV, nobody expects that the > people who did cause the changes in this release aproach me and help me to > integrate their changes into a e.g. new SchilliX release. They just publish > the source code and make it available for me to take. I don't follow. Why does Sun need to contact you about anything? > If I take some free code (from where ever), e.g. even from unmaintained parts > of ON_NV. If I then fix bugs and add new features, people are waiting for > since > some time and if I than just publish my fixed/enhanced sources, these sources > are available to be taken by interested people even from inside Sun. These > people may integrate my fixes and enhancements into the official Sun source, > but they cannot expect that I will spend my time on this integration as I > cannot expect that Sun people integrate their changes into my projects (like > e.g. SchilliX). They may ask me for help, but I will not stalk behind them. Nor should you expect them to take those fixes or enhancements unless someone is willing to take the time to integrate them. If Sun wants them, they can get them, as you point out. If the community wants them, they can spend the necessary effort to get them integrated. I haven't seen complaints from Sun employees about "why hasn't Joerg integrated star yet?" Instead, I've only seen complaints from others about why Sun hasn't done it yet. The only thing I have seen Sun employees do is point out that star, or anything else, requires the efforts of a member of the community for them to be integrated. We should not expect Sun to do everything. > Things may be a bit different in case that the people who do the work may also > decide on integration and get write access to the official Sun Source.... > This is (at least curently) not the case and for this reason, Sun needs to > hold > enough people to be able to integrate available fixes/changes or people from > the OpenSolaris community may lose interest. Under the current model, I agree with that. Though I suspect this will change (hopefully) soon. > You either need to collaborate with the people who do the work or you need to > do the work yourself. That part I'll agree on with the understanding that collaboration doesn't mean community members telling Sun what they must or must not do. I would expect Sun's actions to be driven by their business needs; not community ultimatums. -- Shawn Walker, Software and Systems Analyst http://binarycrusader.blogspot.com/ "To err is human -- and to blame it on a computer is even more so." - Robert Orben _______________________________________________ opensolaris-discuss mailing list [email protected]
