Robert,
thanks for your openness. Very insightful.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Krueger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 1:40 PM
Subject: RE: Anyone using Orion in production? [long]
> At 17:36 24.11.00 , you wrote:
> >You know..while I would love to see source for the sole purpose of
allowing
> >us to help the Orion team debug and fix problems (not to allow a fork of
the
> >product), I think everyone needs to think about other products. Do you
think
> >WebLogic, Inprise, Oracle, IBM and others are going to release their
source
> >so the committed followers can help them fix bugs. That would be
ideal..but
> >none of them do it. Thus far I don't know of any full J2EE ready app
servers
>
> true but we are talking different quality levels. since I've started
> working with oracle 3 years ago I haven't had any showstopping bug while I
> have been in very bad situations (even lost money due to project deadlines
> we could not keep because of serious bugs that kept the project from
> completion or workarounds that took a lot of manpower) with orion. The
> problem is, it feels like an open source project (great software but no
> real QA) but without the source and I have personally experienced that as
a
> very dangerous combination. I would be very happy and keep my mouth shut
if
> orion would just stay the way it is featurewise but really work reliably
> with the features it already has until there is enough manpower at
evermind
> to do both QA and new features.
>
> just to give you an example, I first reported problems with the
> exclusive-write-access="false" option (which you need when someone else
but
> the cmp engine writes to the db, pretty common setup especially with a
> given db schema with cascading deletes) which is seriously broken (I
> switched an existing working app to that option and the simplest things
> would break immediately) at the end of august. even the validity-timeout,
> that can be used as a workaround, was broken (pk checks were still being
> done on cached entities regardless of timeouts). ok, a few days later
there
> was a new version which removed one problem but broke other stuff related
> to that. about a month later the validity-timeout issue was fixed while I
> had taken the heat from my customer and made all kinds of concessions
> because I didn't want to recode the entire app using sql and kept waiting
> for a fix. up until now (3 months later), the
> exclusive-write-access="false" option is still broken (which I regard as
> one of the most important things in an appserver, it must protect the
> integrity of my data in the most ROBUST way possible). we've managed to
> work around that but it still doesn't feel good and I was disappointed to
> see that the changes in the next version of orion were related to
> implementing servlet 2.3 spec. if that are the priorities (features before
> robustness) I don't feel that well about it as a customer who uses ejb and
> cmp to just code against a spec and completely rely on the correctness of
> the underlying platform to not worry about many low-level issues (wasn't
> that the whole deal with ejb?). if a feature is implemented and documented
> then I as a customer expect to be usable but I have run into many problems
> which led me to believe that many of the features have proof of concept
> quality. I would even be able to live with that if reported bugs were
given
> absolute priority over implementing ejb2.0, clustering, servlets2.3. I
have
> completely abandoned the thought of using JMS (although I would like to in
> a few apps) because I'm afraid I'll run into more serious problems in the
> middle of a project and some of the postings on this list have definitely
> assured me that it was the right decision.
>
> robert
>
> >that have released their source. I have heard of JBoss..but I don't know
> >much about it.
