Joseph,
Generally, I agree, but...
>> I am not applauding the support for WebLogic, WebsFear, IPlanit, etc, but
>> if I report a problem with WebLogic to BEA, eventually it will filter to
>> the gurus, who will respond (usually they ask for a reconfigure, restart,
>> and a dump).
>
>And usually if people know your problem, they'll get to it here, too.
Agree. But most major customers avoid "semi-open" products because of the
perception (right or wrong) that they can't purchase support, even if they
have money to burn.
I have argued that the orion-interest response is generally more accurate
(than BEA, IBM & Sun) because the big players must hide their embarassing
flaws from the competition. This is why I believe Oracle MAY (not for
sure! No flames please!) put pressure on Ironflare to be less forthcoming
about internal flaws.
>> Who will handle this for Orion/Oracle? Karl and Magnus? They rarely
>> respond now, so don't you think they could get even more overwhelmed?
>>
>> Please, point me to where Ellison talked about support.
>
>Heh, you haven't LOOKED at Oracle much, have you? They *already* have
>support networks in place...
>
"The buck stops here" sign is on Karl's and Magnus' desk, right? I hope
they don't usually ride in the same car together all time. :)
Stuck in the asylum,
Jay
At 03:42 PM 6/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Jay Armstrong wrote:
>
>> Nathan,
>>
>> A lot of what you're saying is true. I acknowledge that Orion is
>> relatively fast and has some great features (like auto-reconfigure), but I
>> recall that Orion used to claim that it was the fastest J2EE product (or
>> something like that), then had to remove that claim from the
>> orionserver.com site (I think BEA challenged the claim).
>
>No, BEA didn't challenge the claim. BEA refuses anyone (IBM, etc.) to
>publish performance specs for comparison purposes. The result was that
>Orion couldn't say "We did this in X, and BEA did it in Y." Orion is
>hardly unique in this.
>
>> Also, one of the first questions I get asked when recommending software for
>> clients is about support. It's probably the primary reason why major
>> systems do not rely on open products, or "semi-open" products like Orion.
>
>Or Oracle... but wait, that might make the Oracle deal a win for Orion
>users.
>
>> Yes, Karl and Magnus built a fabulous product, but where's the support
>> (documentation, help desk, etc)?
>
>I've done well without it.
>
>> I am not applauding the support for WebLogic, WebsFear, IPlanit, etc, but
>> if I report a problem with WebLogic to BEA, eventually it will filter to
>> the gurus, who will respond (usually they ask for a reconfigure, restart,
>> and a dump).
>
>And usually if people know your problem, they'll get to it here, too.
>
>> Who will handle this for Orion/Oracle? Karl and Magnus? They rarely
>> respond now, so don't you think they could get even more overwhelmed?
>>
>> Please, point me to where Ellison talked about support.
>
>Heh, you haven't LOOKED at Oracle much, have you? They *already* have
>support networks in place...
>
>
>> Jay
>>
>> At 09:32 AM 6/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
>> >On a different note concerning the Oracle deal:
>> >
>> >I wasn't at JavaOne, but I've been reading all about it on the web. One
>> >news story that I've seen a lot about is Larry Ellison and Bill Coleman's
>> >little fight. Oracle has put Orion in the big leagues... I mean, Karl
could
>> >have produced all sorts of documentation that said "Orion is better then
>> >Weblogic," but BEA would have paid it no attention. However, when Oracle
>> >says "Oracle is better then Weblogic," BEA certainly takes notice!
>> >
>> >I consider this a great victory for Ironflare, the J2EE community, and
every
>> >single young person hacking away in his garage. This proves it--a few
>> >talented and committed developers can accomplish anything they set their
>> >minds too. I think Larry Ellison said it best, when, at JavaOne, he said
>> >"We have thrown out literally all of our old Java code. The reason we
threw
>> >away all of our old J2EE implementations is we had to build a high
>> >performance, scaleable version of J2EE. We think that this is a huge
>> >breakthrough for the entire Java community because it addresses the single
>> >biggest threat to Java, which is performance."
>> >
>> >And we, all of us on this list, know what Larry Ellison was really
saying...
>> >
>> >"We replaced all our old Java code with the code from a small Swedish
>> >company called Ironflare. The reason we threw away all of our old J2EE
>> >implementations was that, plain and simple, these two Swedish guys are
>> >studs, and had managed to build a high performance, scaleable version of
>> >J2EE when we had largely failed internally. We think that this is a huge
>> >breakthrough for the entire Java community because it addresses the single
>> >biggest threat to Java, which is performance."
>> >
>> > -LARRY ELLISON
>> > CEO, ORACLE
>> >
>> >
>> >Now, that is sweet!
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Joseph B. Ottinger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://adjacency.org/ IT Consultant
>
>
>
