There was recently a local documentary on the subject. The similarities to &
differences from chimpanzees was mentioned. Some locals then took the
viewpoint that it was racist, implying that they were descended from
monkeys. Talk about a persecution complex. The way the world is going,
perhaps we're all monkeys.
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob W-PDML
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2015 1:29 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
I've seen a number of articles and possibly a documentary about the cave,
but I'll have a look at that one.
B
On 26 Nov 2015, at 17:50, Paul <pentax1...@gmail.com> wrote:
Here's the most (or one of the most) recent discoveries of another branch
or our human family tree. Named homo naledi, the fossils were discovered
in 2013 some 100 feet underground in a chamber with very difficult access.
Among the interesting elements, besides the location, are the existence of
complete skeletons and that they appear to have been placed there as part
of a death ritual, suggesting the development of a culture.
http://onwisconsin.uwalumni.com/features/chamberof-discovery/
Nova, broadcast on PBS here in the US, has a documentary on the discovery
and retrieving a small portion of the thousands of bones. It's a couple
hours long, but an interesting watch...
http://video.pbs.org/video/2365559270/
-p
On 11/26/2015 4:43 AM, Bob W wrote:
I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this because
I'm curious to see where it's going.
Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos. Since
common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are equally
closely related to both.
Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of the
Third
Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great apes,
and
talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old book
now
so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is still
an
excellent read.
The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps does
not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but
discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on the
latest
paper someone announces another candidate.
I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The One.
There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations
happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils are
found
of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other candidates,
but
we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of creature it
was.
The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and
Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories that
somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would be
unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines for
about
40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I
wouldn't
even hazard a guess.
Can I have my surprise now?
B
-----Original Message-----
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C
Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <pdml@pdml.net>
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be surprised
what
you find.
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: knarf
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I suppose
it
would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific
feeling.
My opinion really doesn't mean much.
Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter of
opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is not
an
area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in.
Cheers,
frank
On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better.
"Genetically
we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which, in
your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to who the
common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm
being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a conclusion, or
tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to establish a
common base so we can further our discourse.
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: knarf
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living ancestors"
in
evolutionary terms.
As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to
chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't ancestors or
somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species has
evolved differently to where we are today.
I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here, as if
you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some way.
Could we get to the point please?
Thanks,
frank
On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like us?
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: knarf
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals, great
apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the
earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form.
Cheers,
frank
On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale?
Alan C
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