Jon - I think there's a problem in your assertion of a reliance on 'the
other' for information to exist. First - I don't rely on repeating what
so-and-so said about Peirce and information.. And that, of course, must
include your own statements. [And if you are referring to my reference to
Castells, he doesn't reference Peirce.]
But, you yourself wrote that
"Information is the property of a message or sign by virtue of which it can
reduce the uncertainty of an interpreter about the state of an object."
This, again, relies on 'the other' and what 'the other' perceives,
suggesting that if there is no 'uncertain other' - then, information doesn't
exist. This suggests that an organism contains no information in itself,
which deprives the categorical mode of Thirdness in that organism of any
meaning. And deprives the categorical mode of Secondness in that same
organism of any meaning.
I certainly support the view that ALL Signs are networked and in interaction
with other Signs. There is no such thing as an isolate Sign. My problem is
your claim that information only exists to reduce the uncertainty of an
Other, whereas, I would consider that it exists as an integral component of
the morphological existence of the Sign - and it will be evident in any of
its interactions with other Signs...whether they be befuddled, uncertain or
whatever.
Edwina
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Awbrey" <[email protected]>
To: "Peirce List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2014 10:38 AM
Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Semiotic Theory Of Information -- Discussion
STOI. Semiotic Theory Of Information
JA:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14551
JA:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14559
JA:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14614
JA:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14616
JA:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14626
STOI-DIS. Semiotic Theory Of Information -- Discussion
ET:http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/14628
Edwina, List,
I am more than gratified to hear that the "organized morphological data" I
sent
your way can be valued as "information" without it having to be anything
more
than morphologically organized, but I really do think there is a bit more
to
information than that.
What that "bit more" is, will require a bit more inquiry on our parts. It
will
take a bit more than simply reciting over and over again that so-&-so said
that
Peirce said such-&-such.
Regards,
Jon
Edwina Taborsky wrote:
> Jon, you seem to be saying that Information is what someone else
> perceives. I think this reliance on the decision of another and even, a
> conscious and cognizant other, as to what is information and what is
> not, is problematic. I consider that information is 'data that has been
> organized'. Period. As organized, it is a Sign, and thus, is interactive
> with other Signs (there is no such thing as an isolate Sign). This
> follows, more, the definition of information in such research as Manual
> Castells 'The Rise of the Network Society'.
>
> Therefore, all Signs are also 'information' since they are organized
> morphological data that is in interaction with other morphological data.
>
> As for Aristotle's 'form and matter', as you know, they could not be
> separated, so I don't see that information is merely 'formal' and not
> also material. One can indeed conceptually and analytically reduce the
> nature of a molecule to its formal pattern, but even this analytic
> content is 'held' within a material format - whether it be in print or
> in the brain. My point is that the distinction between the general rules
> of formation (Thirdness) and the actuality (Secondness) is analytically
> real but how often can we have a purity of such types?
>
> Knowledge is Thirdness.- a reasoned judgment or conclusion about
> existential reality.
>
> And of course, I know that you will disagree with every one of my
> comments but - such is life. I think there's room for our disagreement.
>
> Edwina
>
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