Jerry, Clark, List,

I think there are no cases in which we have what Kuhn called revolutionary 
science (paradigm shift) that operate through normal science. There is no great 
truth to this, though; it is a matter of definition. There are cases that might 
be considered transformative, such as the discovery of the method of operation 
of the lac operon, that have been called paradigm shifts, but when I looked at 
them they merely opened up an unexpected area of science, or else showed that 
some prior widely or universally accepted belief, such as the Central Dogma of 
DNA, was false, or both. But these cases were not revolutionary in Kuhn’s sense 
because they did not involve translation problems or disagreements about the 
interpretation of specific observations. These result when there is a failure 
of shared implicit assumptions (tacit knowledge)  in the interpretations of 
theories’ bearing on the evidence. Kuhn puts it down to a failure of shared 
principles within a specific range of desiderata for theories, which come out 
in differing exemplars and what he called “preferred analogies”.  In the cases 
I have looked at there was a resolution only once these unshared assumptions 
were teased out and put into a common framework that did not previously exist. 
For example, to compare Newtonian theory with General Relativity we need 
something at least as strong as Weyl’s affine geometry, which was invented well 
after General Relativity was proposed (though the basis was in Reimannnian 
geometry and in Poincaré’s work on the conventionality of the metric, both of 
which were pre-Einstein, but were regarded more as mathematical curiosities 
than possible geometries for space, let alone spacetime). There were major 
physicists as late as 1931 who rejected the basics of relativity theory as 
nonsensical, and took a Lorenzian interpretation instead, the 1919 eclipse 
observations notwithstanding (they could be explained in a Lorenzian way – no 
need for this General Relativity foolishness).

I do not know, and much less have studied the phi spiral case you mention, but 
your description led me to believe that the transformation was more like the 
lac operon or the soma to gene cases I mentioned above as cases of 
transformational but normal science.

There is some vagueness about the limits of normal science, because our 
understanding of anything we use is only partially explicable by us, and 
different people at a given time can be better or worse at this. So my standard 
for there being a common interpretation (framework)  at a given time is the 
whole scientific community and not the specific understanding of specific 
scientists.

Right now there is no common representation theorem for particle theories and 
plenum theories, so the two can’t be compared and judged against each other at 
the present time. We may eventually be able to do this, but it might also be 
logically impossible. In that case we might never be able to understand quantum 
mechanics, and the solution I proposed for judging scientific progress 
cumulatively would fail. But perhaps we could eventually show that the 
distinction between particle and plenum theories was based on a conceptual 
error, and that the idea that they are different was just a mistake, with our 
understanding in both cases being flawed. That would permit my sort of 
solution. I take it that the General Relativistic resolution  of the bucket 
experiment was of this sort; both Newton’s and Mach’s approaches were 
conceptually flawed, and there couldn’t really be any competition between them, 
as neither was well-formed as an explanation. Nonetheless, there were people on 
both sides who thought that one or the other or both made sense for centuries, 
let alone decades, and that they were in real competition.

This is why, though I agree with Clark about the positive aspects of the 
Pragmatic Maxim, I think the negative aspect I pointed to is important in this 
sort of context. Very smart people can be deluded about whether what they 
believe actually makes sense. I don’t think this is a normal condition, though. 
We often do have ideas about the world that are both coherent and accurate. And 
we can discover bad ones and dispose of them.

John Collier
Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate
University of KwaZulu-Natal
http://web.ncf.ca/collier

From: Jerry Rhee [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, 12 March 2016 4:30 AM
To: John Collier
Cc: Jerry LR Chandler; Peirce List; Clark Goble
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Abduction, Deduction, Induction : Analogy, Inquiry

John,
You're saying there is no case where transformative science operates through 
normal science?

If it's simply a matter of coordinating the proper joint problem space and 
convincing experts to see that space (eros), then phi spiral abduction has it 
in spades.  But the truth is in the future.  So, let's wait...  :)
Best,
Jerry Rhee

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:04 AM, John Collier 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Jerry,

The example I gave (bucket experiment) involved genuine doubt about what at 
least some (e.g., Newton) took to be a real world situation.

Your example is within normal science (the Kuhnian notion of cumulative science 
under a single interpretative paradigm). I was focussing more on cases in which 
doubt has been raised about the suitability of a paradigm for explaining the 
phenomena. This has been a long standing area of interest of mine, and the 
further concern I raised about abduction arises primarily if not always in 
cases in which a paradigm has fallen into doubt. In normal science there are 
common exemplars and preferred analogies(ways of extending a theory to new 
applications). In this case my concerns would not typically arise, except as a 
practical issue resulting from our limited abilities to understand our methods, 
not more basic logical difficulties. So I think we are talking past each other 
here by focussing on significantly different kinds of cases (normal science 
versus revolutionary science). I raised Feyerabend at least in part because he 
focuses on problems for empiricism in the revolutionary case, but also because 
that is the sort of case I see as being especially problematic. In my paper 
“Pragmatic Incommensurabiity (1984)” I argued that the sort of problem that 
Kuhn and Feyerabend raised arise from the lack of an available common 
interpretative framework. In my dissertation I argued that the solution was to 
use the available interpretations of the theories involved to tease out 
discordant implicit presuppositions of the paradigms. As I said, I am still 
working on this problem. I am pretty sure that there is more than just luck 
involved in finding a good resolution. In my dissertation I explained how this 
was done in relativity theory, as an example. I am not yet happy with any 
analysis of this how that I have seen so far. It may be there in Peirce, and I 
am certain that Peircean methods are needed to find a solution.

In any case, I repeat that I would agree that there is no special problem of 
the sort I was worried about that arises in the course of normal science.

John Collier
Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate
University of KwaZulu-Natal
http://web.ncf.ca/collier

From: Jerry Rhee [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Thursday, 10 March 2016 9:15 PM
To: John Collier
Cc: Jerry LR Chandler; Peirce List; Clark Goble

Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Abduction, Deduction, Induction : Analogy, Inquiry

John,

To me, we are talking about whether Feyerabend or Peirce can offer a definite 
suggestion on how to proceed if we are frozen with respect to advancing on a 
problem.  To say there’s no systematic way to proceed is antithetical to 
Peirce, who offers abduction, a very definite formalism that asks you to be 
explicit about three things, the icon (C), index (A) and symbol (B) and to 
consider them in relation according to CP 5.189.  Yes, there are a number of 
things to consider in order to assess the goodness of an explanation, some 
criteria that you list in the last part of your post.  But these things are not 
really assessable by talking strictly in abstraction.  The possibilities are 
simply too numerous.

But why not take genuine doubt about a real-world phenomenon in a real-world 
situation to test your assertions about quality, index, interpretation, 
practice, effectiveness, goodness, space and time, testing of explanation...?  
There is such a phenomenon in phi spiral abduction.  It is an abductive 
inference about a regularity that comes in perceptual judgment.  There were 
others with different collateral experience who saw the phenomenon but did not 
see the same icon.  I proposed an alternative index, one that implicates 
optimal stromal collagen organization.  It is a definite prediction.  It is 
testable, etc.…

Is it a good explanation?  I think so because eros, that is, it is suggestive 
of "effective surprise".  Reasons for eros are many.  These reasons go beyond 
materials and corneal science; justifications that flow into philosophy and 
education.  I trust that good ideas take care of themselves and that there is a 
good chance for consilience here because if not this, which?

Are such justifications allowable for assessing an explanation?  What does 
Newton have to say on the matter?  Who decides if I disagree with his silence?  
Importantly, what if it turns out my idea is true; that it does what I say it 
does.  Is that reason enough to agree that there is a systematic approach to 
creativity and that it is complete in CP 5.189?

Best,
Jerry Rhee

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 10:53 AM, John Collier 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Jerry,

That is certainly the main issue that needs to be resolved in full. The 
phenomena to be explained have to be identified by the abductive inference. 
This would be the index part of the proposition.  The qualitative part has to 
be able to allow this identification. Together they must permit an 
interpretation that we have a way to use in pactice. I would say that it is the 
effectiveness of the last that determines how good the abduction is. I suspect 
that the answer involves considering a number of factors.

For example, Newtonian space and time are one way to explain the bucket thought 
experiment. But even in Newton's own time it was observed  (e.g.  by Leibniz) 
that the explanation couldn't be tested (it failed the pragmatic maxim). Mach 
made the problem even more clear.  It was not a good explanation on those 
grounds,  though it was good enough for Newton and for most physicists up to 
Einstein.

John



Sent from my Samsung device


-------- Original message --------
From: Jerry LR Chandler 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: 2016/03/10 00:07 (GMT+02:00)
To: Peirce List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Clark Goble <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, John Collier 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Abduction, Deduction, Induction : Analogy, Inquiry
John, Clark,  List:


On Mar 9, 2016, at 1:59 AM, John Collier 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

List,

Another point that is often overlooked in discussions of inference to the best 
explanation, which I agree is not the same as abduction, though I think 
abduction is more restrictive than just inference to any hypothesis from which 
the evidence might be inferred, is that the best explanation need not be a good 
explanation, so we need more than inference to the best explanation to carry 
out inquiry responsibly.

The simple question arises:
If an abductive step is taken by the inquirer, then what?

For example, say that a sinsign and its legisigns and qualisigns provide the 
informative extension to generate an index, how does one take this abductive 
object and move through the inferential steps needed to generate a valid 
argument?

Or, from a different logical perspective, what information is needed to extend 
(in the Aristotelian sense of intensional logic) the index to the 
(telelogical?) goal of the inquirer?

Cheers

Jerry








From: Clark Goble [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, 04 March 2016 12:35 AM
To: Peirce List
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: Abduction, Deduction, Induction : Analogy, Inquiry


On Mar 3, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Jon Awbrey 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Let me just say again that abduction is not “inference to the best explanation”.
That gloss derives from a later attempt to rationalize Peirce's idea and it has
led to a whole literature of misconception.  Abduction is more like “inference
to any explanation” — or maybe adapting Kant's phrase, “conceiving a concept
that reduces a manifold to a unity”.  The most difficult part of its labor
is delivering a term, very often new or unnoticed, that can serve as
a middle term in grasping the structure of an object domain.

I fully agree and many of his quotations make clear it’s not inference to the 
best explanation. However we should admit that in some places he sure seems to 
get close to that idea. Even if it doesn’t appear to be workable. I’d argue 
that even when he appears to be talking about best explanation he’s much more 
after the fact our guesses are so often quite good. (Although I’d have to go 
through all the quotes to be sure that’s fair to the texts)



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