Ben N., List: BN: What I mean in the example of firstness, etc. above is that the shock or sound waves constitute firstness, i.e., brute reality.
In Peircean terminology as I understand it, "brute reality" is a muddled notion. Anything "brute" is Secondness, and therefore *exists*. That includes the shock or sound waves, since those react with other things regardless of whether any human being is in the vicinity to experience them. The *qualities *of the shock or sound waves--such as loudness--are examples of Firstness, but only as they are *in themselves*, not as they are *actually *sensed by someone. Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 11:12 PM, Ben Novak <trevriz...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Jon: > > I am confused, but perhaps something I said created the confusion. So, > let's see if I can obtain a state of unconfusement. The problem is whether > my example of firstness, etc. can be corrected. Here is my original example: > > I am a student sitting in a class listening to an interesting lecture, > when suddenly an explosion occurs. It could be a firecracker under behind > the professor's desk, or a truck wreck on the street right outside the > classroom windows. The sound of true explosion, whatever it is, is sudden, > unexpected, and immediate. The sound or other shock waves hitting my body > constitute firstness--I feel them. Secondness is what my body does in > reaction, which is to immediately and involuntarily, raise my head, > flinch, and commence other bodily reactions to the explosion waves reaching > me. Thirdness occurs next, when my mind begins to wonder what just happened. > > In correcting me, you write: > > BN: The sound or other shock waves hitting my body constitute > firstness--I feel them. > > I would be inclined to associate this more with Secondness, because it is > Reaction of the shock waves and your body, not a Quality that is what it is > independent of anything else. > > What I am proposing is that I delete the words "--I feel them." > What I intended to convey was the idea that you earlier corrected me on, > where you distinguish between reality and existence this way: > > Reality consists of that which has whatever characters it has, regardless > of whether anyone thinks or believes that it has those characters; > existence consists of that which interacts or reacts with other things. > > What I mean in the example of firstness, etc. above is that the shock or > sound waves constitute firstness, i.e., brute reality. By secondness in the > example I mean that when the sound or shock wave hit me, I become aware of > them, and my body involuntarily and without conscious thinking reacts. And > by thirdness, I first wonder what made the sound or shock waves. Can I > achieve this by deleting "--I feel them," and is the example then sound? > > Thanks, > Ben N. > > *Ben Novak <http://bennovak.net>* > 5129 Taylor Drive, Ave Maria, FL 34142 > Telephone: (814) 808-5702 > > *"All art is mortal, **not merely the individual artifacts, but the arts > themselves.* *One day the last portrait of Rembrandt* *and the last bar > of Mozart will have ceased to be—**though possibly a colored canvas and a > sheet of notes may remain—**because the last eye and the last ear > accessible to their message **will have gone." *Oswald Spengler >
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