Tudor , I am only amazed how much you guys accomplish with so limited resources. I may not agree with some of the choices but I am very happy with the progress Pharo is making and glad I stick around.
If the community is not ready for a roadmap , so be it. You will be ready when you will be ready.I do think however that more the community grows coordinating effort will become a key issue. I do agree that things look very encouraging and I trust the community to move Pharo forward. Just a side note: what I find cool about Pharo GUI coding is that all tools are written in Pharo. Its easy to take this for granted but taking a look at other dynamic programming languages shows that his is a blessing. I have to confess I did not understand this obsession of implementing everything in Pharo when I joined coming from python. But now I find this obsession too infectious to resist :) On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Tudor Girba <tu...@tudorgirba.com> wrote: > Hi Kilon, > > The situation is like this. For quite a while we did not have enough > expertise in this community to build serious UI frameworks that can work. > In the meantime we learnt a lot. GT is not just a couple of windows. It's > an experiment of building something that does not exist anywhere else, and > we learnt a lot from doing it. For example, to make Spotter both responsive > and robust, the most difficult part was to learn to build the machinery > behind, but now we are passed that initial step. At the same time, Alain > put a ton of effort in Bloc. Athens was exercised both as the engine behind > Block and from the Roassal team. And there are others like Sean, Nicolai > and Ben who work around the same areas. > > This are all seemingly parallel and uncoordinated efforts, but they are > converging. It is exactly because we are committed to the long term goal of > building a real and better alternative to Morphic that we choose to not > stop half way with Brick which is probably enough for GT purposes and > choose instead to invest in evaluating Bloc. > > Yes, we do not have the replacement now, but we have never had so much > investment and will around the UI as we have now. We do not know at this > point what is the better way, we do not know the exact roadmap because it > is more than just a matter of implementation. But, I know that the kinds of > results we had recently around the UI is a highly encouraging predictor. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:19 PM, kilon alios <kilon.al...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> " >> if you read my mail, you will notice that I said BOTH are on the table >> (and we are actually moving oon both): >> - Bloc is the redesign >> - In the mean time we WORK and ENCOURAGE others to work on improve it." >> >> Last time I asked about Bloc , I was told not to use it and instead stick >> with Spec or Morphic. >> >> I said it before and will say it again, you guys need to sit down and >> make a roadmap for Pharo because I am reading a lot of conflicting posts in >> this mailing list and this is does not give the professional look Pharo >> wants to show to people outside Pharo. As a user "replace in the long run" >> is not enough ! The original author of Bloc , Alain, also said that he is >> pretty much the only one that works on Bloc (with some help from Stef) and >> if people dont start helping him out he is going to give up. >> >> How many more threads should we have about the GUI future of Pharo before >> people really get the message that we need a roadmap ? >> >> Additionally , Pharo needs a roadmap , seriously it does. >> >> "but Morphic it self has several fundamental flaws that cannot be fixed >> and that’s why in the long, very long way, needs to be replaced. " >> >> What flaws , where , when , how , why ? So much discussion that Morphic >> must go , close to zero discussion what the actual problems are. >> >> "First, Athens is not a replace for Morphic, is a replace for the canvas >> in which morphs are drawn. So is not Morphic or Athens… is "Morph using >> DisplayPlugin" or "Morphic using Athens". >> >> Second I did not say Athens is to replace Morphic . From my understanding >> Bloc is based on Athens and Bloc is to replace Morphic. Correct me If I am >> wrong. >> >> "Glamour is very mature and I’ve used it serval times… and in theory >> Brick will be compatible with Glamour (mostly) so even if developers >> deprecate one for the other you will be able to use your code (mostly). " >> >> Brick is called non usable by its own authors. Glamour is framework of >> building browsers and simplified GUIs , its nowhere near as powerful as >> Morphic and is based on Morphic. From the looks of its is not even as >> powerful as Spec. Through the couple years I have been around I have seen >> at best a couple of question on how to make it work compared to hundreds of >> questions about Spec and Morphic . How something can be matured if it is >> not heavily used ? >> >> "But anyway, how can Athens be so slow? Why? Can you share some info? " >> >> You ask me to tell you why Athens is slow when we have this discussion >> before ( a few months ago) and you told me that Athens is slow because of >> how Pharo handles rendering and that as soon as we move to SDL things will >> be 10 times faster. >> >> All I have to do is VGTiger runDemo and my 3Ghz Quad Cores beg me for >> mercy at 50% consumption. Calling it slow , is an understatement. >> >> Other much simpler example are very slow too like the sliding logo >> example at many more. >> >> Of course this problem affects Morphic too so personally I am examining >> the possibility that no pharo library will satisfy me and instead I will >> make my own GUI API on top of QT or HTML. Obviously more work for me, >> obviously a scenario that I want to avoid, but if the alternative is an app >> that consumes 50% cpu then I dont have much of a choice. Maybe I could take >> a look at Mars too. >> >> >> > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > > "Every thing has its own flow" >
