Hi! Hola!
I would like to help with some of this, so I sorted a bit the ideas in
the previous emails to see if we can extract some concrete actions to
apply. So I'll make a step back and put some titles to the topics of
discussion:
!Human/Social/Politics stuff
1) Policies
- Deciding about what goes inside
- And what does not
- e.g., what is the official IDE? What is a valid issue?
- And what is necessary or useful for the community
Well, on the one hand Esteban and Steph answered to this already I
think. At least about how this works in reality. I have however two
remarks on this:
- First, I think that all accepted issues should be aligned with Pharo's
vision. And this means first that this vision must be well documented
and updated. Second, it means that people should know and read that
vision document (and not get mad if ). But also, this "alignment" is
kind of subjective: there is somebody that decides if this happens or
not. And this happens to be the board who does it...
- Second, I do not really care what the heck is the process to decide
this. But I believe that documenting it is nothing but a good move. (And
this is related to the PEPs Hernan named and I talk about below...)
2) Discussion around the same topics for months
- can we have some examples about these? From the top of my head I
can think about
* <example>
* Logging
* ?
Well, I see also sometimes that we have long-running discussions that go
nowhere... But:
- First, I take them as people is learning. In Pharo-dev people
discuss sometimes about things they are not sure of or maybe they want
to share and change. And maybe they are discussing to explore new ideas.
So, please do not ban these discussions, I thing that we have to
encourage them. Also, the traffic in Pharo-dev is so high that if
something is not interesting to us, we have to either learn to filter
that out, or follow other lower-traffic options such as pharo-users or
pharo's new newsletter.
- Second, please, if you feel that you have something to propose, drop
it in the mailing list! But as you make it public, do not expect that
everybody will agree :). Also, as you have noticed, many people in this
list have really strong opinions, so we have to understand and continue
pushing.
3) PEPs (Pharo Enhancement Proposals?)
Well, this is an interesting idea. I think it is important to document well
- the integration process
- the decision process
- the release process
- the proposal process (which BTW I really, since to propose some
enhancement you need to really describe and design it and not just say
"mine is cooler!")
- Coding idioms and styles (maybe we can autogenerate this from lint
rules???? Invoking Yuriy here!!)
A question I would pose is
- where should this be? a wiki somewhere? some part inside the pharo site?
!Technical stuff, about Big images, modularization, removing tests
Hernan, I am really interested in your use case where having the
image tests is really bothering. We are working on modularizing it, yes,
but we also believe the default environment should contain tests to
guarantee some quality => otherwise, breaking the system would be far
much easier!
But if you are interested in modular images just drop me (and
Christophe, and Pavel) an email and we can see how we can collaborate.
And also, Hernan, what would you collaborate with? Because in your email
I had the impression that you "expect" something from people: to accept
your issues, to fix your issues, to communicate with you, but it's fuzzy
what you're doing also to make that happen. This is maybe just an email
miscommunication, just take this as a proposal to really move your ideas
forward (with your help, of course).
Guille
-------- Original Message --------
Hello,
Looking at bugs is really difficult. There are not enough people
looking and fixing bugs.
just a short note from a Pharo noob...it is, imho, very strange that one
cannot even take a look at bugs *without* creating account at tracker.
We know. Now the company offered us a professional service (cost around
25$ per month per user)
for free. And also to maintain it. We do not want to spend our resources
on maintaining...
Then we migrating with pain from the google service.
By having ability to, at least, skim at bugs and see if there are some
low-hanging fruits to tackle, maybe more work could be accomplished?
Having issue tracker closed for the public emits, imho, not very
friendly signal to potential contributors.
Yes but we cannot do much
Stef
