if the hamas leaders are committing war crimes put them on trial right alone with the Jews who have been committing war crimes !
On Jan 17, 10:51 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > Then go after HAMAS leaders who MADE the Gazan civilian not covered > under the Geneva Accords - by placing their military units in > civilian areas... But the deeper argument here is "Is Hamas a group > of "Freedom Fighters seeking to overthrow Israeli oppression and thus > allowed to hide their fighters among otherwise covered civilians or at > they a proto-state required to operate under the Geneva Accords?" > > You wish to claim the former, I claim the latter... It is precisely > this reason which in part was the motivation of the UN's inability to > distinguish between Freedom Fighter and Terrorist... To do so robs > many groups the protection civilians when shooting at their > opponents... This is also why so many cling to the now untrue claims > of Western Imperialism and Colonial to justify local elites practicing > thuggery and human rights abuses in the name of "Anti- > Imperialism"..... > > On Jan 17, 9:54 am, "liberal mike532 !" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > i don't care what you think the people who live in Gaza have done to > > deserve being victims of war crimes . they are still war crimes ! > > > On Jan 17, 9:39 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > By simple logic. Obscurants are allowed in all areas frequented or > > > occupied by combatants. > > > > ALL areas frequented or occupied by combatants are open to attack. > > > > Hamas is attempting (actually it's gone beyond that) to use their own > > > wives and kids (and those of everyone else) as shields in order raise > > > the ire of people in the world against their "enemies" who refuse to > > > be disuaded by the age old "chicken-shit" tactic. I say > > > "chicken-shit" because it would not work without the cooperation of > > > the populace in general as well. It is all about getting YOU to take > > > their side for ANY reason by ANY means. In this case the passive and > > > unforced human shield. > > > > It would seem to be working in your case. It seems you are pissed at > > > the Israelis for targeting combatants that use their own populace as > > > fodder. > > > > I am NOT in favor of the tactics of either side in this long and > > > unending conflict but I am sure of a couple of things........ It is > > > next to impossible to prove the negative (your points). Using and > > > allowing themselves to be used as human shields is wrong (or are they > > > ALL Hamas?). > > > > AND what Hamas tries to but can not forget, AND what is the craw in > > > the throats of > > > ALL the OTHER M.E. Moslem nations that won't allow Palestinians > > > entrance regardless of why.... NO ONE has ever allowed the > > > Palestinians as much freedom nor as many (basic reason for > > > continuously stirring the pot) personal or public rights as Israel > > > when they are not mis-behaving. A few of these rights are deeded land > > > ownership, purely autonomous zones, work in Israel with all tax > > > with-holdings sent to the Palestinian government, free health care in > > > Israel (ever wonder why those Palestinian hospitals were not so hot to > > > begin with?) > > > > Palestinian civilians, with the cooperation of Israel, have a much > > > higher standard of living than any of their neighbors and this does > > > not suit or please the powers that be in the fanatic Moslem world. > > > > On 1/17/09, liberal mike532 ! <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > can you dispute an of the points i have made with facts? > > > > > On Jan 16, 3:49 pm, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > That is just NOT true, It is very unlike you. > > > > > > That's kinda funny, actually. I think this is very much like Mike, who > > > > > will exaggerate, embellish or fabricate whatever is required to make > > > > > his point. > > > > > > On Jan 16, 1:45 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > That is just NOT true, It is very unlike you. > > > > > > > The phosphorous is allowed as an obscurant. There has been no proof > > > > > > of > > > > > > TARGETING civilians. If the UN (my ex boss) does not want its camps > > > > > > hit then they need to keep them free of combatants (it is one of > > > > > > their > > > > > > responsibilities). > > > > > > > It is completely legal to target combatants regardless of where they > > > > > > set up camp. This includes day care centers and schools and > > > > > > hospitals > > > > > > and nursing homes. > > > > > > > On 1/16/09, liberal mike532 ! <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > the Jews have been using white phoperous on civilians which is a > > > > > > > war > > > > > > > crime and have been targeting civilians not to mention a UN refuge > > > > > > > camp . > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 11:36 am, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > No, Mike, they are not. They have not used a single banned > > > > > > > > weapon or > > > > > > > > tactic. > > > > > > > > > They have not targeted a single location that did not have > > > > > > > > combatants. > > > > > > > > > There is no proof to the contrary. This can NOT be said for > > > > > > > > Hamas or > > > > > > > > the Gazan people. > > > > > > > > > The fact that women and children are in the locations where the > > > > > > > > Palestinian combatants set up shop speaks to the value they > > > > > > > > place on > > > > > > > > their own people. It also shows the non-combatants basic > > > > > > > > intelligence > > > > > > > > for staying with their women and children (or actually bringing > > > > > > > > them > > > > > > > > to a site) when offensive or defensive posts are placed in their > > > > > > > > midst. > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 9:54 am, "liberal mike532 !" > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > why would i care what hamas's Ideology is ? > > > > > > > > > it is the Jew's who are committing war crimes ! > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 9:59 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The Ideological Era that anyone who oppose Western > > > > > > > > > > Imperialism had to > > > > > > > > > > be better is over... Even your Italian brethren sees the > > > > > > > > > > error of > > > > > > > > > > this logic now... I will suggest that the Left in this > > > > > > > > > > Country ALSO > > > > > > > > > > crossed the line in uncivil and hateful speech over and > > > > > > > > > > over the last > > > > > > > > > > 8 years... In the end, their Ideology and Urban Myth > > > > > > > > > > history will > > > > > > > > > > also be rejected... > > > > > > > > > > >http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/italian-parliamentarians-ra... > > > > > > > > > > > >>> This is an episode of the attack agains the western > > > > > > > > > > >>> world, and Iran has a lot to do with it. > > > > > > > > > > > The change of attitude is great: the dictatorial religious > > > > > > > > > > nature of > > > > > > > > > > Hamas and the democratic, civilized nature of Israel are > > > > > > > > > > seen face to > > > > > > > > > > face for what they are at least by the European elite at > > > > > > > > > > large, dead > > > > > > > > > > and wounded notwithstanding, and there rises an > > > > > > > > > > identification with > > > > > > > > > > Israel against a regime that uses human shields and promises > > > > > > > > > > slaughters of Jews in its charter. > > > > > > > > > > > What happens today, at least in Italy, is the defeat and > > > > > > > > > > fall of the > > > > > > > > > > leftist ideologies: ideology has been the fig leaf that has > > > > > > > > > > allowed to > > > > > > > > > > justify all the most violent crimes and most disgusting > > > > > > > > > > verbal > > > > > > > > > > attacks. If Arafat launched the terrorist Intifada, if he > > > > > > > > > > promoted the > > > > > > > > > > martyrdom of children in public speeches, the ideologists > > > > > > > > > > were ready > > > > > > > > > > to justify him with the issues of occupation, the > > > > > > > > > > Palestinian misery > > > > > > > > > > and loss of any hope. Not the same with Hamas. History, in > > > > > > > > > > Italy, has > > > > > > > > > > brought to a profound crisis the ideology of revolution and > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > justification of any cruel attack against a pretended unjust > > > > > > > > > > imperialist order. That time is in good part over, nobody > > > > > > > > > > will see > > > > > > > > > > Hamas as the resolution of the problem and not as the > > > > > > > > > > problem itself. > > > > > > > > > > I also think that the word "peace" has lost that healing > > > > > > > > > > meaning that > > > > > > > > > > it had until yesterday. The new non-ideological point of > > > > > > > > > > view sees > > > > > > > > > > that there is no peace when one of the contenders doesn't > > > > > > > > > > want it, and > > > > > > > > > > that even if the world in the short run asks for a truce, > > > > > > > > > > in the long > > > > > > > > > > run requests a defeat of Hamas. > > > > > > > > > > > Well, yesterday night many people, Ministers and Members of > > > > > > > > > > Parliament, composed a very new, interesting puzzle of > > > > > > > > > > opinions. I > > > > > > > > > > think that when you are not overwhelmed by exotic > > > > > > > > > > thirdworldism, the > > > > > > > > > > images of children educated as hate machines, the speeches > > > > > > > > > > of jihad > > > > > > > > > > leaders, from Ahmadinejad to Nasrallah, to Hanje, that deny > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > holocaust and promise death to Jewish and Christians too, > > > > > > > > > > have on us a > > > > > > > > > > result of great disgust. Westerners, thanks God, can still > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > disgusted by an uncivilized level of political speech.- > > > > > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Mark M. Kahle > > > > > > Blessed are the bewildered for they don't know the difference.... > > > > > > Me- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > -- > > > Mark M. Kahle > > > Blessed are the bewildered for they don't know the difference.... Me- > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
