I think the leaders, political and religious from both sides, should be taken out and shot. We might then be able to start a real dilogue in the ME.
On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 2:26 PM, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Mark, > > It's not that he is emotionally vested in his position on this that > bothers me but rather his failure to consider and evaluating what the > opposing side has said - in this case you and jgg - and respond > accordingly. And he does this time and time again. It's obvious you > feel pretty strongly about this as well but that has not prevented you > from presenting facts and making logical arguments. > > > On Jan 18, 1:51 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> I disagree with both you and frank. He is just allowing his deep felt >> emotions on the matter to get the best of him in this matter.. >> >> On 1/18/09, Cold Water <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Mike will waste your valuable time (his goal) and continue to spew the same >> > garbage. Wise up! >> >> > CW >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "frankg" <[email protected]> >> > To: "PoliticalForum" <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 12:05 >> > Subject: Re: A note to Mike, Even Europe is tiring over Hamas' hateful and >> > bloody Ideology >> >> > Mark, I tried to warn you. Do not attempt to reason with Mike using >> > facts and logic, it won't work. He'll just keep repeating the same >> > thing over and over like a busted record. Don't expect him to try to >> > address the points you made; to do so would require him to either >> > counter with facts and logic of his own or admit he was wrong, neither >> > of which I think I have ever seen Mike do on this board. >> >> > On Jan 18, 11:39 am, "liberal mike532 !" <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > > what the israelites are doing is covered in the Geneva convention >> > > under war crimes . >> >> > > On Jan 18, 10:24 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > No, Mike. War crimes and that which makes them so is carefully defined >> > > > in the covenants. Nothing you are proffering meets the requirements. >> >> > > > I am not justifying anything. I am saying your logic is flawed and >> > > > that it is NOT supported by fact. >> >> > > > By using the acts of Hamas I am pointing out things that DO qualify as >> > > > war crimes. It is, for me, an arguement over legalities. >> > > > confrontations like these have no good and bad, just bad and worse. >> > > > legal definitions do NOT contain or allow room for emotions. I suggest >> > > > you check yours at the door and take another look. >> >> > > > On 1/18/09, liberal mike532 ! <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > the one small detail as you call it is that they are committing war >> > > > > crimes ! >> > > > > and you are trying to justify the indefensible by saying but the >> > > > > Palestinians are bad people too . so fucking what ? they are all bad >> > > > > people people and the war crimes are still being committed ! >> > > > > On Jan 17, 4:14 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > Mike, on this issue you are NO different than Gaar. you are paying >> > > > > > attention to one SMALL but not insignificant part of the story and >> > > > > > considering that which sticks in your craw as the ONLY point of >> > > > > > view. >> >> > > > > > Phosphorous is legal. Bombing a house where there are combatants is >> > > > > > NOT a crime. Throwing a grenade into your living room is illegal >> > > > > > EXCEPT when an overt threat is directed at me.... it does NOT >> > > > > > MATTER >> > > > > > who is there with you. There were shots fired from the UN compound >> > > > > > (not the first time, I have seen it in the Congo) The UN (my >> > > > > > employers) were NOT allowed in the compound yet were (and are), >> > > > > > responsible for those that enter and what is on their persons, they >> > > > > > are trying to deny their responsibilities. To take action against >> > > > > > shots from within or from nearby that compound is NOT a crime. To >> > > > > > stop >> > > > > > a boat from entering Israeli waters when that is its STATED and >> > > > > > MANIFESTED purpose is NOT a crime. Israel gave notice to the >> > > > > > international community and shipping about hours and places of >> > > > > > admission... and have complied with that schedule.... the people on >> > > > > > that boat CHOSE to ignore it, they could have been legally sunk. >> >> > > > > > NEXT !!!!! >> >> > > > > > By definition these are NOT in any sense of the word, war crimes. >> >> > > > > > It is Hamas that is steadfastly refusing the cease fire and >> > > > > > demanding >> > > > > > unchecked admission to Israel. >> >> > > > > > On 1/17/09, liberal mike532 ! <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > mark are you saying the Israelis have not used phosphorus or >> > > > > > > bombed >> > > > > > > civilian houses ? oh and lets not forget about bombing the UN >> > > > > > > camp >> > > > > > > as >> > > > > > > well as attacking ships in international waters . >> > > > > > > each and every one of these things is a war crime as you well >> > > > > > > know >> > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > nothing the palestinians do or did will justify the Jews >> > > > > > > committing >> > > > > > > war crimes . >> > > > > > > On Jan 17, 3:14 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > You have yet to point to one FACT confirming your position.... >> > > > > > > > you are >> > > > > > > > starting to sound just like Gaar. >> >> > > > > > > > On 1/17/09, liberal mike532 ! <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > Do you think Hamas did NOT realize that offensive action >> > > > > > > > > would >> > > > > > > > > be >> > > > > > > > > > taken when the Israelis were fired on ?? >> > > > > > > > > that has nothing to do with the fact that the Jews are >> > > > > > > > > committing war >> > > > > > > > > crimes ! nothing can justifie commiting war crimes nothing ! >> > > > > > > > > On Jan 17, 12:35 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > It seems that you overlooked this one small point. >> >> > > > > > > > > > Do you think Hamas did NOT realize that offensive action >> > > > > > > > > > would be >> > > > > > > > > > taken when the Israelis were fired on ?? They knew. They >> > > > > > > > > > did >> > > > > > > > > > not care. >> >> > > > > > > > > > Mike, if you shoot at me from your family room and it is >> > > > > > > > > > full of >> > > > > > > > > > peole... I'm shooting back. Where the confrontation takes >> > > > > > > > > > place is >> > > > > > > > > > your choice and the results (based on location) on your >> > > > > > > > > > head. >> >> > > > > > > > > > Israeli PM Olmert said Hamas militants had fired at Israeli >> > > > > > > > > > troops >> > > > > > > > > > from the location. >> >> > > > > > > > > > Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the military fired >> > > > > > > > > > artillery >> > > > > > > > > > shells at the U.N. compound after Hamas militants opened >> > > > > > > > > > fire from the >> > > > > > > > > > location. Three people were wounded. >> >> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 10:18 AM, liberal mike532 ! >> >> > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Israeli Forces Shell UN Headquarters in Gaza >> > > > > > > > > > >http://www.truthout.org/011509C >> > > > > > > > > > > Ibrahim Barzak and Amy Teibel, The Associated Press: >> > > > > > > > > > > "Israeli forces >> > > > > > > > > > > shelled the United Nations headquarters in the Gaza Strip >> > > > > > > > > > > on >> > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, >> > > > > > > > > > > setting fire to the compound filled with hundreds of >> > > > > > > > > > > refugees as U.N. >> > > > > > > > > > > chief Ban Ki-moon was in the region on a mission to end >> > > > > > > > > > > Israel's >> > > > > > > > > > > devastating offensive against the territory's Hamas >> > > > > > > > > > > rulers." >> >> > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 17, 10:15 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> What proof do you have of that Mike?? >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> The crime being committed is the use of non-combatants >> > > > > > > > > > >> as >> > > > > > > > > > >> fodder. >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> There is no proof Israel has used a single illegal >> > > > > > > > > > >> weapon, targeted a >> > > > > > > > > > >> single spot without proof a combatant was there, or >> > > > > > > > > > >> prosecuted the war >> > > > > > > > > > >> with unnecessary force. >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> Yet Hamas demands unfettered access to Israel as one of >> > > > > > > > > > >> their demands. >> > > > > > > > > > >> Hell, it takes a passport to enter canada and mexico >> > > > > > > > > > >> now.... no one >> > > > > > > > > > >> gets unfettered access to anyone elses country. Talk >> > > > > > > > > > >> about unreal and >> > > > > > > > > > >> knowing it !! >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> On 1/17/09, liberal mike532 ! <[email protected]> >> > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > not one word of that has anything to do the Jews >> > > > > > > > > > >> > committing war >> > > > > > > > > > >> > crimes ! >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > On Jan 17, 9:46 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Margareth, >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Being nice did not work. The Moslem fanatics can not >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > allow it to work. >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > It is absolutely counter to their goals and hoped >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > for >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > control of every >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > aspect of the lives of every Moslem to allow it to >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > do >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > so. >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Just imagine what would happen to their doctrine if >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > rule of >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > non-secular law were to function in the very heart >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > of >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > their >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > territories. >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > On 1/17/09, margareth <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > If you check the map of Palestine, and Gaza, it >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > would be useful if you >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > remember that the country is smaller than most >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > North American >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > counties, and holds 1.4 million residents. Of >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > course they are aiming >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > at civilian targets.... it would be hard to miss >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > them. Having said >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > that, the Israelis are their own worst enemies in >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > this situation, The >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > destruction of Gaza and all the people in it is >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > most likely result >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > if they persist with the bombs, etc. It is the >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Israelis who seem to >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > have a surplus of >> >> ... >> >> read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > -- Mark M. Kahle Blessed are the bewildered for they don't know the difference.... Me --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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