On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 4:40 PM, LimboIndo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Well farnk. what do you to do for a living? Unless you live on a farm > and grow your own food which you don't sell, you should be very > interested in your neighbor's education. > Actually there is a law (federal) on the books that makes NOT selling your crops a crime under the interstate commerce act. Your point is flawed...... great law, huh ?? > > If you work in the tech field, you need educated people to buy your > products so you'll have a job. If you work in a bank, you need people > to make money to put in your bank, so you can lend it, so you'll have > a job. If you work in a...well you get the picture. > > These people vote for your leaders as well, do you want some carpenter > with a 4th grade education making political decisions for you? At this point it would be an improvement as he probably would not vote for something he could not understand.. this can not be said of the present congress. > Think > outside thr box, just for a second and you'll see that sometimes > giving for the greater good is better for you in all ways. > Education is the pervue of the individual states, NOT the feds. Thus the A&M behind some names and the Standard IT (as in MIT) behind others, these are all state schools. > > On Oct 2, 1:59 pm, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Comparing healthcare to education is apples to oranges but to answer > > the question, no, my federal tax dollars should not be going to my > > neighbor's education. > > > > On Oct 2, 1:26 pm, LimboIndo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Do either of you think that your neighbor has a "right" to one dime of > > > your money for education? > > > > > On Oct 2, 12:06 pm, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Well stated Mark.. > > > > > > > there is NO right for my neighbor to see one dime of my money > paying for HIS healthcare. > > > > > > Especially when I am working hard, earning a good salary and being > > > > heavily taxed already and I'm also working hard at the gym, eating > > > > healthy and doing all I can to remain healthy while my neighbor > > > > exploits social programs to avoid working, paying no taxes, eats fast > > > > food and lays around the house getting fat and unhealthy. > > > > > > On Oct 2, 12:20 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > No, government is sworn to defend against enemies foreign and > domestic. now > > > > > you are mixing the rights of states under the constitution with > those > > > > > enumerated duties of the feds. > > > > > > > Has government cured the woes of drugs, alchohol, or health care in > its MANY > > > > > attempts or has it just muddied the waters and caused pricing to be > out of > > > > > control ?? > > > > > > > In its many efforts to ban alchohol, drugs and guns it has built > criminal > > > > > organizations that rival the police forces.... and left the general > public > > > > > more and more helpless. > > > > > > > In its many attempts at general population healthcare it has > fostered a > > > > > system of graft and corruption that had a bigger bottom line than > General > > > > > Motors last year (and this). > > > > > > > Show me one unqualified governmental success in dealing with a > SOCIAL > > > > > problem..... > > > > > > > there is NO right for my neighbor to see one dime of my money > paying for HIS > > > > > healthcare. > > > > > > > I do have a right to openly (and proudly) carry a weapon. > > > > > > > yet Government has these two reversed in its efforts..... > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 9:37 AM, LimboIndo <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > I think you meant "why can a foreigner use." And actually the > > > > > > Government does regulate drugs and alcohol (but that's a > serperate > > > > > > issue). Our Government was forbade from regulating religion, and > they > > > > > > do regulate health care currently. The debate here is about > reforming > > > > > > the system. > > > > > > > > And yes healthcare is a social issue, right along with education > and > > > > > > crime. > > > > > > > > Dictionary: so·ci·e·tal (sə-sī'ĭ-tl) > > > > > > > > Of or relating to the structure, organization, or functioning of > > > > > > society. > > > > > > > > And point is you said Government has never been able to, and > should > > > > > > not regulate social problems, which is an outright lie. Fixing > these > > > > > > problems is the very basis of Government: To address social > issues, > > > > > > and fight off invading armies. > > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 1:15 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > social problems as defined by common usage in todays political > climate. > > > > > > > > > healthcare > > > > > > > alchohol/drug abuse > > > > > > > religious expression > > > > > > > > > are Social, but not necessarily Societal problems. > > > > > > > > > why is a fucking foreigner can use and apply the language and > its petty > > > > > > > political di(e)ffereces used in your country better than you > can. > > > > > > > > > Please TRY to stay in the context of your own political > atmosphere. > > > > > > > > > I can have a social problem without it ever, in any concievable > way, > > > > > > being > > > > > > > considered a societal problem. > > > > > > > > > illiteracy pisses me off..... > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 11:26 PM, LimboIndo < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Government is NOT a cure for any social ailments. It has > NEVER solved > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > single social problem. It has never solved a single > problem. > > > > > > > > > > Do you honestly believe this? This is your idea of a valid > argument, > > > > > > > > making completely ludicrous statements that aren't even in > the realm > > > > > > > > of reality? Government is a SOCIAL system INVENTED to solve > SOCIAL > > > > > > > > PROBLEMS. Solving social problems is the PURPOSE of > Government. Read > > > > > > > > the greats Rousseau, Locke, Hobbes, all referred to a SOCIAL > CONTRACT. > > > > > > > > Crime, Safety, Order are all Social problems. > > > > > > > > > > so·cial (sshl) > > > > > > > > adj. > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > > > > > a. Living together in communities. > > > > > > > > b. Of or relating to communal living. > > > > > > > > c. Of or relating to human society and its modes of > organization: > > > > > > > > social classes; social problems; a social issue. > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 10:42 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Again, you miss the points made as you are all wrapped up > in > > > > > > semantics > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > phraseology without bothering to hear the point made. > > > > > > > > > > > In a nutshell: > > > > > > > > > > > Government is NOT a cure for any social ailments. It has > NEVER solved > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > single social problem. It has never solved a single > problem. > > > > > > > > > > > Health care and access to it ARE social ailments. There is > no > > > > > > "perfect" > > > > > > > > > system". Someone will always be left out. > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:28 PM, LimboIndo < > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > We are debating the need for health care reform based on > health > > > > > > care. > > > > > > > > > > Not government waste, not government corruption, not > crooked > > > > > > > > > > politicians, not if it rains too much in Seattle. > > > > > > > > > > > > As I've said before please argue if we need health care > reform > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > > on our current health care system. If there is a need, > then the > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > to address it must be discussed. If you think our health > care > > > > > > system > > > > > > > > > > is fine the way it is, I would ask you why you thought > so. It costs > > > > > > > > > > more than any other place in the world, it is no better > than > > > > > > average > > > > > > > > > > based on rankings of World Health Orginizations, and its > current > > > > > > lack > > > > > > > > > > of universal coverage potentially exposes the broader > population to > > > > > > > > > > epidemics. Not to mention a healthier work force is > better for our > > > > > > > > > > economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Not directed at you frank, but I wish everyone would > look up two > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > important terms: "Red Herring, and Straw Man" > > > > > > > > > > > > Please stop making these types of arguments, they are > fallacious in > > > > > > > > > > there composition and not valid. Please make valid > arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 8:14 pm, frankg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Surely you don't think that the Government does not > commit > > > > > > wasteful > > > > > > > > > > spending? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course not and that's the point. Fraud and waste are > not going > > > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > > > anytime soon. Too many people who make policy have > their hands in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > cookie jar. Yet you fail to account for this when you > argue; "If > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > can get everyone Health Care without more taxes, > without > > > > > > healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > quality going down and without healthcare costs going > up, what is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > problem?" At the end of the day you guys keep > forgetting > > > > > > *someone* > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > to pay for this. If you think the government will be > able to > > > > > > achieve > > > > > > > > > > > healthcare nirvana without raising taxes then I have a > bridge to > > > > > > sell > > > > > > > > > > > you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 3:40 pm, LimboIndo <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fraud and waste, emphasis on waste. Surely you don't > think that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > Government does not commit wasteful spending? Why > haven't they > > > > > > done > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > yet? Who knows? Most likely Politicians afraid to > rock the boat > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > stop pandering to swing voters, or politicians with > millions or > > > > > > > > > > > > hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign > donations from > > > > > > > > insurance/ > > > > > > > > > > > > medical companies (like most of the ones trying to > the block > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > reform). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 12:45 pm, frankg <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we can get > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everyone Health Care without more taxes, without > healthcare > > > > > > > > quality > > > > > > > > > > > > > > going down and without healthcare costs going up, > what is > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sounds great, now prove it can be done. The CBO > doesn’t seem > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > > > it will work. Common sense says it won’t work. A > significant > > > > > > > > portion > > > > > > > > > > > > > of the funding supposedly will come from the > elimination of > > > > > > fraud > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > waste in the current system. Exactly how that will > be done is > > > > > > > > still a > > > > > > > > > > > > > black box secret and one that most believe can’t be > done. And > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > can be done, why isn’t it being done today? After > all, the > > > > > > > > biggest > > > > > > > > > > > > > single complaint with the current system is cost, > and if you > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > eliminate fraud and waste you can reduce cost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 12:16 pm, LimboIndo <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In response to Plain'ol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It depends on what you mean by "efficient?" It is > dangerous > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > confuse > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
