-----Original Message----- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ricardo Aráoz Sent: Monday, 2 February 2009 8:35 AM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] Chaves warms to Obama after character reference from Castro
Geoff Flight wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf > Of Ricardo Aráoz > Sent: Monday, 2 February 2009 6:38 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] Chaves warms to Obama after character reference from > Castro > > Geoff Flight wrote: > >> Absolute proof? Nope. >> >> > Neither absolute nor relative. Of the thousands of things that happened > between diagnosis and cure you chose to highlight prayer. Why did you > choose to highlight that amongst thousands of others? Because it suits > your beliefs, absolutely no other reason. > > The is NO CURE for spina bifida. The only possible choice was a miracle > (doctors words). To connect the miracle with our prayers is only logical. > There is 'cure', because the condition was reversed. The question is whether the cure comes from divine intervention or from other venue. And to say the "only" possible choice was a miracle says nothing about the cause, only about your imagination. That becomes a circular argument. All that does is redefine 'miracle' out of existence by proposing that anything that occurs - no matter how impossible - is by definition not a miracle. Whilst logically sound it hardly helps the question. Call it what you want if it helps but Spina Bifida has no cure and certainly a hole in a spine that closes over in 3 days has to rate high up on the impossible scale. > >> But standing where I am, seeing what I have seen and having experienced >> > first-hand the miraculous power of God, > The power that stems out of your choice to see prayer associated with cure. > > Your asinine argument fails to offer any alternative explanation for > multiple miracles occurring after prayer. > Googled asinine : devoid of intelligence, stupid. Please, could we keep the level of this exchange of views? Let's keep insult and demeanor at home. Hmm, perhaps the 'stupid' aspect of the word was tough but I will stil go with 'devoid of logic' That settled, a possible cause would be her subconscious mind, moved by her firm faith that she would be cured, told her body to heal. She was THREE DAYS OLD. So perhaps not. Of course unless you tell me that one day her condition was spina biffida and the next day she was normal. Then you might have me convinced that a supernatural thing (not necessarily god, we are still far, far away from there) occurred. But if a certain period of time passed between both conditions, then maybe the spine healed itself, rare as it may be. The miraculous nature was that she was born with a significant hole and occulta but at age 3 days the hole had closed over and encased the spine properly. Notice that I'm using "maybe", "might", "possible". That is because all this is speculation, and unless we can consistently repeat the cure there is no way to tell for certain. What I object in your position is the certainty, you made up your mind and that's it, there is no questioning the issue. One of the problems with miracles is that by definition they are NOT repeatable. And my certainty is based on the uttlerly miraculous nature of the event. Even if it were a natural event there would be no way for a spinal hole to close over in a mere 3 days. Every physical aspect of this defies the laws of medicin and the laws of expectation. >> your 'arguments' look faintly ridiculous. When you have seen hearing >> > restored, bones healed and reformed in an instant and disabled children > restored, doubt in the existence of God disappears and trust, not only in > His power but also His character, is the only natural result. > >> >> > You saw all these miracles happen? Wow! Either you are a holy man or you > have lived hundreds of years in thousands of places to be able to see > all these miracles (or you enjoy watching Yank evangelists on tv). > > Yes, I did. If you hung around church circles long enough you see them > happen from time to time. I know you don’t find it possible, but that > doesn’t change the fact. > > >> If it had been YOUR daughter I have no doubt your opinion would have been >> > completely opposite. > >> >> > Yup! I would have damned the son of a bitch for making her be born in > such a state. Because of course you can understand that if he gets the > merit of curing her, he also gets the blame of getting her into that > predicament. > > That kind of an answer just may explain why you don’t get to see miracles. > Yes, god has such a mean egotistical spirit that he'd rather see my daughter live with a bad spine just because I don't praise him. After all, he NEEDS my prayers, or else he would not be so mean to my daughter. Is that what you meant with your words? No? Then please elaborate. I'm not going to pretend to understand God's reasoning in most matters. That would be presumptive. And yes, it is a cheap answer, but any other would just be me trying to explain something I don’t understand and no-one else does either. As a matterof interest I know of people who have been miraculously healed who weren’t even Christians. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [excessive quoting removed by server] _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/009801c984be$130c5dc0$392519...@com.au ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. 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