Geoff Flight wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of > Ricardo Aráoz > Sent: Monday, 2 February 2009 8:35 AM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] Chaves warms to Obama after character reference from Castro > > Geoff Flight wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf >> Of Ricardo Aráoz >> Sent: Monday, 2 February 2009 6:38 AM >> To: ProFox Email List >> Subject: Re: [OT] Chaves warms to Obama after character reference from >> Castro >> >> Geoff Flight wrote: >> >> >>> Absolute proof? Nope. >>> >>> >>> >> Neither absolute nor relative. Of the thousands of things that happened >> between diagnosis and cure you chose to highlight prayer. Why did you >> choose to highlight that amongst thousands of others? Because it suits >> your beliefs, absolutely no other reason. >> >> The is NO CURE for spina bifida. The only possible choice was a miracle >> (doctors words). To connect the miracle with our prayers is only logical. >> >> > There is 'cure', because the condition was reversed. The question is > whether the cure comes from divine intervention or from other venue. And > to say the "only" possible choice was a miracle says nothing about the > cause, only about your imagination. > > That becomes a circular argument. All that does is redefine 'miracle' out of > existence by proposing that anything that occurs - no matter how impossible - > is by definition not a miracle. Whilst logically sound it hardly helps the > question. Call it what you want if it helps but Spina Bifida has no cure and > certainly a hole in a spine that closes over in 3 days has to rate high up on > the impossible scale. > If it was over in 3 days then there is no question about it, it must have been something "un-natural". But from there to "God", let alone ONE god and not MANY gods, there is a long way. Maybe there ARE aliens who love us and cured her through a superior science. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but it is as possible as the existence of god, and I don't know why we should rule in favour of one or the other.
>> >> >>> But standing where I am, seeing what I have seen and having experienced >>> >>> >> first-hand the miraculous power of God, >> The power that stems out of your choice to see prayer associated with cure. >> >> Your asinine argument fails to offer any alternative explanation for >> multiple miracles occurring after prayer. >> >> > Googled asinine : devoid of intelligence, stupid. Please, could we keep > the level of this exchange of views? Let's keep insult and demeanor at home. > > Hmm, perhaps the 'stupid' aspect of the word was tough but I will stil go > with 'devoid of logic' > > That settled, a possible cause would be her subconscious mind, moved by > her firm faith that she would be cured, told her body to heal. > > She was THREE DAYS OLD. So perhaps not. > Certainly not. > Of course > unless you tell me that one day her condition was spina biffida and the > next day she was normal. Then you might have me convinced that a > supernatural thing (not necessarily god, we are still far, far away from > there) occurred. But if a certain period of time passed between both > conditions, then maybe the spine healed itself, rare as it may be. > > The miraculous nature was that she was born with a significant hole and > occulta but at age 3 days the hole had closed over and encased the spine > properly. > And this....god.... caused her to be born this way, and to endure it for three days. And does much worser things to other babies. Oh! But then we say he acts in misterious ways and everything is all right. Puaffff! > Notice that I'm using "maybe", "might", "possible". That is because all > this is speculation, and unless we can consistently repeat the cure > there is no way to tell for certain. What I object in your position is > the certainty, you made up your mind and that's it, there is no > questioning the issue. > > One of the problems with miracles is that by definition they are NOT > repeatable. And my certainty is based on the uttlerly miraculous nature of > the event. Even if it were a natural event there would be no way for a spinal > hole to close over in a mere 3 days. Every physical aspect of this defies the > laws of medicin and the laws of expectation. > > If the miracle cannot be repeatable, then how can you be so sure it was because of prayers. After all there are thousands who pray even harder and with more or the same amount of faith , and their children are not healed. Is it that god likes Aussies? > >> Yup! I would have damned the son of a bitch for making her be born in >> such a state. Because of course you can understand that if he gets the >> merit of curing her, he also gets the blame of getting her into that >> predicament. >> >> That kind of an answer just may explain why you don’t get to see miracles. >> >> > Yes, god has such a mean egotistical spirit that he'd rather see my > daughter live with a bad spine just because I don't praise him. After > all, he NEEDS my prayers, or else he would not be so mean to my daughter. > Is that what you meant with your words? No? Then please elaborate. > > I'm not going to pretend to understand God's reasoning in most matters. That > would be presumptive. And yes, it is a cheap answer, but any other would just > be me trying to explain something I don’t understand and no-one else does > either. > > As a matterof interest I know of people who have been miraculously healed who > weren’t even Christians. > > So maybe god has nothing to do with the matter? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/498655fb.2000...@gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
