And also to be fair, I don't think it would be too common that someone would buy two Clem Ls for themselves (and in fact of course neither did you.) My point is, the comparison between the two would have been mostly on paper for most riders. The fact that the design was changed over that timeframe is now definitely an issue for you. I am now super curious to see if it presents a similar issue for me. I will definitely report my experience. Frankly, I was looking at the extra tire clearance and the extra chainstay inch and the awesome green color as a bonus. I did not know about the slacker head tube angle. Of course, this is all now creeping around in my head.
On Monday, January 6, 2020 at 7:18:19 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote: > > These are fair questions, and I’ll see if I can answer them. But first, I > cannot wait for your 2019 Clem L to be saddled up and ridden hard. You owe > me a story. > > Next, what is making me unhappy about my Clem? Please let me say that I > don’t dislike the bike - I do like it, I just wanted to LOVE it. I still > just may - but it’s different than what I thought I had purchased, and I’m > hoping I get used to it. It also should be said that Riv NAILED the blue > paint - have you ever seen a blue so pretty? Here are the things that irk > me: > 1. It’s too long for my bike rack. That is pretty straightforward. > > 2. I keep hitting it on things when I walk it backwards. It’s just so > LONG, and when I’m moving it around it seems to hit into things all the > time. I don’t remember the Clementine being this way, but I will admit I > could be wrong. > > 3. In that vein, It’s awkward to lift. At school I have to lift it over a > curb and I’m never certain I’m going to be able to do it. You should have > seen me with the Betty - we made bike-lifting look good! I don’t remember > the Clementine being this awkward, but again, I may be wrong. See below for > a comparison of the Aquatine and the Clem. It’s LONG. Imagine me swinging > this bike around. But I do. > > > > 4. I had to scoot my saddle pretty far forward for it to feel right. I > think this is a drastic measure that really signifies the bike is too long. > Website says over 5’5” can ride the 52, so why am I pushing my saddle > forward? > > Today I hopped on my Betz and talk about shock. The bike felt short. I > felt short. I stood up to pedal and wondered if I might fall over the front > wheel. It was weird - and this was my one and only for 7 years! I would > never expect it to feel weird. > > Then I got on the Clem and felt like I was 7 feet tall. It’s amazing how > different these bikes are and what you can get used to. I will keep at it, > never fear. I want the bike to do its thing and I really want to feel > comfortable. I think you’ll note your 2019 is way different than your OC. I > await your report - which you will undoubtedly treat us to here. > PS Very clever - apples to clementines. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 6, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Mark Roland <absolut...@gmail.com > <javascript:>> wrote: > > > Hi BBDD! I have a horse in this race (2019 Clem L) but it's not saddled > up--in fact the wheels aren't yet built. When that blessed event takes > place, I will be able to compare it to the memory of my OC (Original > Clementine.) > > I have to say I am still unsure as to what is making you unhappy about > your new Clem L. I doubt it is heavier than the old one, which had bigger > diameter tubing. The extra inch of chainstay would at best be a wash. I > understand the limits of a big bike in terms of portage and storage, for > sure. In terms of handling, you mention it not being as "nimble" as your > other bikes--so specifically, it is "less nimble" than your inherited Aqua > Clementine? > > It sounds like the bike successfully avoided whatever was in its path in > the scenario below. Maybe you could try letting go a bit more and let it do > its thing? When I first got my Clementine, the Bosco bars were way out of > my normal experience. That's why I committed to giving them 100 days with > no judgement, just ride 'em. This is not to suggest a compromise in any > way, as is sometimes implied when the term "get used to it" is used. It > just means that if your body is really feeling an actual response > difference, assuming it's not something inherently unsafe, it may just be > giving your nervous system and other parts of your being some time to > adjust. > > I had a Big Dummy for a few years, when my son was younger. Of course it > was heavy, and often, but not always, loaded. But it was a fun bike to > ride, I enjoyed it quite a bit, and missed it after I sold it. The > chainstays on the Big Dummy were somewhere north of 80cm. So yeah, not > going on the front of the bus. On the other hand, it was the bus. > > How long is too long? Who knows. I guess certainly for some, anything over > 41.5 is too long. Although if the Clem L gets any longer, they should sell > it with an extra top tube and down tube so you can convert it to a Hubabuba > when you have company. In fact, on the rare occasions I find myself alone > on my tandem, it handles just fine. True, no wheelies. Say la vee. > > Also, I wonder if perhaps you are feeling more the slacker head angle than > the extra inch in the chainstays. I am not a bicycle designer by any means, > but I suppose it is a possibility. There are those who don't get along with > the slack angles of the early eighties mountain bikes. Although these days > slack is back, albeit along with many other geo changes, not to mention > suspension, so it's comparing apples and clementines. > > Speaking of apples, I suspect that's one reason Grant is not a big fan of > by the numbers critiques--it's like taking a bite of the fruit of forbidden > knowledge. It really can be a rabbit hole that can both confuse and maybe > even influence our perceptions. As my tai chi teacher was fond of > admonishing us, "Thinking too much! Just do!" > > I hope you will keep riding it and these concerns will fade away. But if > they don't, I'll bet you could swap for an older model, or sell all your > bikes and order a custom candy apple Riv. > > On Sunday, January 5, 2020 at 10:48:08 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! > wrote: >> >> ..I have been making myself take that new Clem out on challenging >> terrain/with loads because I don’t trust it. Today I had to swerve to avoid >> something and it was so unnerving because I didn’t know if the bike could >> do what I was asking of it. It’s a long bike, and it doesn’t feel as nimble >> as my other bikes do; it was fine, crisis averted, but I’d never feel this >> way with my previous bikes. I’m left with that awful feeling of, “Will I >> ever get used to this?” “Did I make a mistake?” “Am I supposed to be >> grateful for these improvements? Am I not sophisticated enough to >> understand and appreciate them?” Because after all, I’m not the bike >> geometry expert here. But I do have an understanding, however crude and >> unrefined, of how good a properly designed and fit bicycle can ride, >> because I’ve had one. And now I’m a lot of money and time into this >> experiment. >> >> I wish I could just go back to enjoying every pedal stroke, but I know >> too much now. It’s so hard to get used to anything else. I don’t mean to >> sound ungrateful, but I am disappointed. I know I can sell the bike, but >> it’s not so bad that it can’t work. I’m just a little sad and disappointed >> because I thought it would be perfect. I think my sister would say the same >> about her 2019 Clem L, too. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/5oPT7SuztEQ/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f1af5c32-8964-4ba0-8df2-4536e1fbe276%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f1af5c32-8964-4ba0-8df2-4536e1fbe276%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/586d7205-5d0a-4d74-be32-631411d40944%40googlegroups.com.
