Balaji,

This response was directed to Hannes, but I'll point out that we do
have a homenet WG within IETF.  See inline.

Curtis


In message <cahf4apmv595uodr1dnwhugzuunbmanrlpcyfizn3nqn8dmh...@mail.gmail.com>
Balaji venkat Venkataswami writes:
> 
> Dear Hannes,
>  
> We are familiar with the presentation that you have referred to.
>  
> I have 3 questions for you.
>  
> a) While we agree with the presentation that you have mentioned, can
>    we in the IETF have control over the home appliances and subscriber
>    line kit ? Is there a methodology by which we can optimize the
>    power consumption on these devices ?

Perhaps homenet WG could take on work in this area.

> b) The problem space that the IETF can take up can be only in the edge
>    and core devices in the ISP networks and the Campus/DC/Metro
>    etc...Assume that I have n devices today with the same bandwidth
>    offering but differing power consumption footprint, is there a way
>    today to automatically send traffic through low power paths in the
>    topology of these devices.

There is no routing based solution but there are ways to put home
devices into standby or otherwise save significant amounts of power.

> c) So we can optimize power only on what we can control. What are your
>    views on this ?

If "we" is IETF, IETF can do work in home networking and historically
has done lots of work in the applications area and now has a homenet
WG which could recharter but may feel that power expertise in home
networking devices lies elsewhere.

Curtis

> thanks and regards,
> balaji venkat
>  
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Hannes Gredler <[email protected]> wrote:
>  
> > balaji,
> >
> > may i put your attention to a talk that  francois lemarchand
> > gave on future net 2010.
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jb9au2zca4nl3x/10_fn_S29.pdf
> > contains a copy.
> >
> > slide 2 initially shows that the core and edge layer might be appealing
> > due to their per-box power print. however slide 15 discusses the
> > big picture where 99.99% of the power is burned by the home
> > appliances and subscriber line kit.
> >
> > Do you think that optimizing a part of the network which gives only limited
> > overall savings is a worthwhile goal ? Note that SPs already ask their
> > vendors
> > about reducing the power footprint of those core devices by improved,
> > (sometimes
> > less functional) silicon forwarding engines.
> >
> > /hannes
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 7:41 PM, Curtis Villamizar wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Balaji,
> > >
> > > "We" in the context of your first paragraph seems to be a
> > > misrepresentation.  The authors of all of these drafts seem to be from
> > > the same university in India.  From prior attempts on your part to get
> > > a draft of this sort into IDR and a brief reading of a few of the
> > > drafts that you have just submitted, you don't seem to have a good
> > > understanding of how networks are built and how network equipment is
> > > built from which to begin to attack the problem of reducing the power
> > > consumption of these networks.
> > >
> > > If you want to try to advance a research paper with your theories on
> > > power reduction, please choose an appropriate venue such as a refereed
> > > technical journal.
> > >
> > > Curtis
> > >
> > >
> > > In message <
> > cahf4apo9bekpk7qwa9fgjq9bnunhnv+ofon_9_4oij61e11...@mail.gmail.com>
> > > Balaji venkat Venkataswami writes:
> > >
> > >> Dear all,
> > >>
> > >> We are a group of research and industry individuals tied together with a
> > >> common goal towards reducing the energy consumption in the core and edge
> > >> networks.
> > >>
> > >> We present a metric-based hierarchical approach to reduce power
> > consumption
> > >> in core and edge networks. The proposal considers both unicast and the
> > >> multicast cases. For unicast, the metric considered is *consumed-power
> > to
> > >> available-bandwidth* and for multicast the metric is *consumed-power to
> > >> available-replication-capacity.*
> > >>
> > >> With unicast, the metric is used to determine a low-power path between
> > >> sources and destinations. With multicast, the metric serves the twin
> > >> purpose of finding low-power multicast paths as well as multicast
> > >> replication points.  We evolve multiple techniques at various
> > hierarchical
> > >> levels. One at the Inter-AS level, Inter-Area level within the AS and
> > >> intra-Area within an AS. Additionally, the proposed method can also be
> > used
> > >> to determine disjoint or redundant paths for load balancing or fault
> > >> tolerance. Additionally since TCAMs are one of the biggest power
> > guzzlers
> > >> in all the components on a router/switch, we have presented a solution
> > for
> > >> intra-AS purposes to use the TCAM according to the traffic matrix
> > passing
> > >> through the system and shut down those TCAM banks that are unused. With
> > >> this in mind, we have also advocated taking into account a
> > TCAM-POWER-Ratio
> > >> in order to compute the paths from source to destination based on this
> > >> metric. Once low-power paths, in either the unicast or the multicast
> > cases,
> > >> are identified then currently available traffic engineering techniques
> > >> could be used to route the data packets. In the case of inter-AS BGP
> > path
> > >> selection is also modified to arrive at paths which are low-power paths.
> > >>
> > >> Our main objective is as follows...
> > >>
> > >> We now outline four important aspects that any approach for power
> > reduction
> > >> should be capable of addressing.
> > >>
> > >> *Should cater for both unicast and multicast scenarios*
> > >>
> > >> Multicast provides an important scenario for the Internet. Today, most
> > >> proposals consider mainly low-power path routing with unicast traffic.
> > >> Multicast traffic has received a lot of attention in wireless networks,
> > but
> > >> not in the wired domain. Any new proposal should be able to address both
> > >> the unicast and the multicast traffic scenarios. Having different
> > methods
> > >> for these two scenarios might lead to unnecessary processing burden in
> > the
> > >> routers, which might hinder its scalability.
> > >>
> > >> *Should not rely on just switching off unused links*
> > >>
> > >> Most approaches to optimize energy pursue the following approach:
> > measure,
> > >> monitor and respond to the system energy usage by switching off unused
> > or
> > >> under-utilized links. Such an approach could be effective for reducing
> > >> power locally. The effect on the network is not clearly understood.
> > >> Further, the power usage involved in turning on and
> > rebooting/reconfiguring
> > >> the device is often not explicitly considered. We note that Service
> > Level
> > >> Agreement (SLA) requirements may not even permit the links to be
> > switched
> > >> off. Also services provided by ISPs like Virtual Private Networks (VPNs)
> > >> can be affected by such re-routing decisions.
> > >>
> > >> *Should follow an hierarchical and distributed approach*
> > >>
> > >> For scalability, it is important that the algorithms proposed for
> > inter-AS
> > >> should also be applicable to intra-AS situations. Networks do not work
> > in
> > >> isolation, so any proposal should be both distributed and hierarchical.
> > The
> > >> algorithms should be applicable at every level of the hierarchy.
> > >>
> > >> *Should  provide incentives for ISP for adoption*
> > >>
> > >> The engineering proposals should be aligned with commercial incentives
> > for
> > >> rapid and widespread adoption. Today, the device manufacturers and the
> > ISPs
> > >> operate independently of each other, and there is no incentive for
> > >> manufacturers to work towards low-power and high bandwidth devices. An
> > >> ISP=92s revenue model is based on the consumed bandwidth, which in turn
> > lea=
> > >> d
> > >> naturally to more power consumption. If the proposed method chooses
> > routers
> > >> that consume low-power and increase the data flow through them, then
> > this
> > >> indirectly provides encouragement for ISPs to purchase low-power and
> > high
> > >> bandwidth devices.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> We now present our metric-based proposals in the below mentioned drafts
> > >> which addresses the aforementioned design aspects.
> > >>
> > >> We would like the routing community to provide feedback on these
> > drafts. We
> > >> also intend to present this work in an abridged format in the upcoming
> > IETF=
> > >> .
> > >>
> > >> The drafts are as follows....
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