Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Hi, The braille markings on currency notes is a commendable initiative but our friend Kanchan has made very important points regarding paper money. One more important thing is the coins are becoming more and more inaccessible. Earlier these could be identified and differentiated on the basis of size or thickness. For example, 5 rupee coin used to be thick as compared to other coins. Some of our friends are suggesting that universal, accessible and inclusive design is more important but the problem is that without trying it on all kinds of users the universality can not be tested. that is the process which is hardly paid any heed to. Best Naresh On 7/12/14, ghanshyam mohanta ghanshyam.ghanshyam.moha...@gmail.com wrote: so many thanks for your valuable suggestion about braille i want to say one thing only maximume sighted people are comming to this field only for earning in the name of service to the vi people. On 7/11/14, Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in wrote: Yes, Avinash, you have pointed out true and very important points. I do hope things get going here in our country! Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training -Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting - Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR Advisory; including demystifying workshops and counseling. Printing Solutions, Incentive Travel and Marketing Data Mining / Refining.. We assure high quality service marked with excellence and complete customer centricity, forming Synergies as we go along. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of avinash shahi Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:39 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Dear Mam You've put in so much efforts in putting things in 'perspective',thank you. Let me put things straight One: Computers are privileged commodities which can't be afford by 90% parents who have blind kids (see World Bank Report on India, 2007). Then Braille becomes emancipating and empowering tool for blind kids who are not in Delhi or Mumbai. two: I wonder why cost benefit analyses should be the responsibility of us, its the constitutional responsibility of the state. Isn't our Disability Act 1995 enjoins government to do so? If books are not supplied on time by government-owned presses, Can't so called disability activists organize sit-ins on the roads? bottomline: meetings and negotiations in AC rooms can not cure emergency situation. 3: practically writing, 'Inclusive education' is attractive 'buzzword' which masque the real discrimination and humiliation disabled children face in such schools which robs them of their childhood then adulthood. West-imported concept replicated in India is neither suited nor workable particularly in rural areas. . such schools cater to the needs of few selective fortunate boys/girls who are privileged enough to manage things on their own cost. four: 'Universal Design' again sounds wonderful, there is no mechanism how to operationalize it. How can I get to know bus-number? how to read which medicine my friend has given me to swallow? and yes how to identify notes? only trust holds the key. Blindness imposes certain limitation and State is obligated to provide greater resources to us. I think there should be syntheses between both Braille and latest technology. And government should work expeditiously to meet the needs of its neglected subjects, Note: majority of blind people are not citizens. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
so many thanks for your valuable suggestion about braille i want to say one thing only maximume sighted people are comming to this field only for earning in the name of service to the vi people. On 7/11/14, Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in wrote: Yes, Avinash, you have pointed out true and very important points. I do hope things get going here in our country! Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training –Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting – Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR Advisory; including demystifying workshops and counseling. Printing Solutions, Incentive Travel and Marketing Data Mining / Refining.. We assure high quality service marked with excellence and complete customer centricity, forming Synergies as we go along. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of avinash shahi Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:39 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Dear Mam You've put in so much efforts in putting things in 'perspective',thank you. Let me put things straight One: Computers are privileged commodities which can't be afford by 90% parents who have blind kids (see World Bank Report on India, 2007). Then Braille becomes emancipating and empowering tool for blind kids who are not in Delhi or Mumbai. two: I wonder why cost benefit analyses should be the responsibility of us, its the constitutional responsibility of the state. Isn't our Disability Act 1995 enjoins government to do so? If books are not supplied on time by government-owned presses, Can't so called disability activists organize sit-ins on the roads? bottomline: meetings and negotiations in AC rooms can not cure emergency situation. 3: practically writing, 'Inclusive education' is attractive 'buzzword' which masque the real discrimination and humiliation disabled children face in such schools which robs them of their childhood then adulthood. West-imported concept replicated in India is neither suited nor workable particularly in rural areas. . such schools cater to the needs of few selective fortunate boys/girls who are privileged enough to manage things on their own cost. four: 'Universal Design' again sounds wonderful, there is no mechanism how to operationalize it. How can I get to know bus-number? how to read which medicine my friend has given me to swallow? and yes how to identify notes? only trust holds the key. Blindness imposes certain limitation and State is obligated to provide greater resources to us. I think there should be syntheses between both Braille and latest technology. And government should work expeditiously to meet the needs of its neglected subjects, Note: majority of blind people are not citizens. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 There is no one answer to your question dear! I never said that blind people should not learn Braille! I only said that if there are blind people who have never had the opportunity of learning to read and write due to various reasons, as you maybe aware that not all blind are fortunate enough to be able to learn to read and write? And of course the ones who don’t know Braille and are educated, they can learn the same. It will be very useful I think. So I hope I have made my question clear? Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training –Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting – Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR Advisory; including demystifying workshops and counseling. Printing Solutions, Incentive Travel and Marketing Data Mining / Refining.. We assure high quality service marked with excellence and complete customer centricity, forming Synergies as we go along. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of bhawani shankar verma Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:21 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 if reading and writing with the pen and pencil is necessary for the sighted person then why not braille should be larnt by blind people? -Original Message- From: Preeti Monga Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 3:19 PM To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' Subject: Re: [AI] Notes
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Well, if a blind person doesn't know braille, then he/she should make efforts to learn it. The schemes can be launched only for literate ones, not for unlettered. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 There is no one answer to your question dear! I never said that blind people should not learn Braille! I only said that if there are blind people who have never had the opportunity of learning to read and write due to various reasons, as you maybe aware that not all blind are fortunate enough to be able to learn to read and write? And of course the ones who don't know Braille and are educated, they can learn the same. It will be very useful I think. So I hope I have made my question clear? Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training -Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting - Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR Advisory; including demystifying workshops and counseling. Printing Solutions, Incentive Travel and Marketing Data Mining / Refining.. We assure high quality service marked with excellence and complete customer centricity, forming Synergies as we go along. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of bhawani shankar verma Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:21 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 if reading and writing with the pen and pencil is necessary for the sighted person then
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Do you have a senior citizen in your family or even a middle aged person then think of that person when yu say things likeWell, if a blind person doesn't know braille, then he/she should make efforts to learn it. Maybe schemes are made for the lettered then probably half the budget and a lot of India is out of it. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Avichal Bhatnagar coolavic...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Well, if a blind person doesn't know braille, then he/she should make efforts to learn it. The schemes can be launched only for literate ones, not for unlettered. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 There is no one answer to your question dear! I never said that blind people should not learn Braille! I only said that if there are blind people who have never had the opportunity of learning to read and write due to various reasons, as you maybe aware that not all blind are fortunate enough to be able to learn to read and write? And of course the ones who don't know Braille and are educated, they can learn the same. It will be very useful I think. So I hope I have made my question clear? Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training -Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting - Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
friends, don't think learning braille is a tedious job. its very easier than learning the pronounciation of ESpeak or eloquants and just learning the number formats is enough for recognising rupee if that facility is included in plastic notes. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have a senior citizen in your family or even a middle aged person then think of that person when yu say things likeWell, if a blind person doesn't know braille, then he/she should make efforts to learn it. Maybe schemes are made for the lettered then probably half the budget and a lot of India is out of it. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Avichal Bhatnagar coolavic...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Well, if a blind person doesn't know braille, then he/she should make efforts to learn it. The schemes can be launched only for literate ones, not for unlettered. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 There is no one answer to your question dear! I never said that blind people should not learn Braille! I only said that if there are blind people who have never had the opportunity of learning to read and write due to various reasons, as you maybe aware that not all blind are fortunate enough to be able to learn to read and write? And of course the ones who don't know Braille and are educated, they can learn the same. It will be very useful I think. So I hope I have made my question
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
recruitment of sighted teachers in blind schools should be reduce. also the special B.Ed. programmes for the blind should not be occupied by the sighted trainees. on the other hand, in the highcourt of bilaspur in the case nfb vs cg government, cg government pleaded that they could not find qualified blind candidates in chhattisgarh to fill the vacancies reserved for the blind. it is right upto some extent, because there was no blind applicant for the vacancies of teachers in social welfare deptt of chhattisgar. in such cases government has no option to fill the vacancies with other disabilities or with the sighted candidates. however, the highcourt has given time for 6 month to the secretary to excercise the matter again. Most of the NGOs are running shops on the name of blind welfare. but, the case may be same for the sighted people where the NGOs are working for various welfare programmes. - Original Message - From: Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 There is no one answer to your question dear! I never said that blind people should not learn Braille! I only said that if there are blind people who have never had the opportunity of learning to read and write due to various reasons, as you maybe aware that not all blind are fortunate enough to be able to learn to read and write? And of course the ones who don’t know Braille and are educated, they can learn the same. It will be very useful I think. So I hope I have made my question clear? Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
I agree, - Original Message - From: Avichal Bhatnagar coolavic...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Well, if a blind person doesn't know braille, then he/she should make efforts to learn it. The schemes can be launched only for literate ones, not for unlettered. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Notes BUDGET 2014 There is no one answer to your question dear! I never said that blind people should not learn Braille! I only said that if there are blind people who have never had the opportunity of learning to read and write due to various reasons, as you maybe aware that not all blind are fortunate enough to be able to learn to read and write? And of course the ones who don't know Braille and are educated, they can learn the same. It will be very useful I think. So I hope I have made my question clear? Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training -Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting - Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR Advisory; including demystifying workshops and counseling. Printing Solutions, Incentive Travel and Marketing Data Mining / Refining.. We assure high quality service marked with excellence and complete customer centricity, forming Synergies as we go along. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of bhawani shankar verma Sent: Thursday, July
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Bhivani It is not sighted or non sighted teachers that is the problem but the problem is that teachers dont know braille enough to teach the students therefore what we are getting is half baked braille readers. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: bhawani shankar verma bsvermad...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 recruitment of sighted teachers in blind schools should be reduce. also the special B.Ed. programmes for the blind should not be occupied by the sighted trainees. on the other hand, in the highcourt of bilaspur in the case nfb vs cg government, cg government pleaded that they could not find qualified blind candidates in chhattisgarh to fill the vacancies reserved for the blind. it is right upto some extent, because there was no blind applicant for the vacancies of teachers in social welfare deptt of chhattisgar. in such cases government has no option to fill the vacancies with other disabilities or with the sighted candidates. however, the highcourt has given time for 6 month to the secretary to excercise the matter again. Most of the NGOs are running shops on the name of blind welfare. but, the case may be same for the sighted people where the NGOs are working for various welfare programmes. - Original Message - From: Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Notes
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
there are nogs working in the name of blind welfare recruit 100% sighted staff untrained and not with helping attitude. Very very few cases where sighted are able to equally understand and empathize with blind persons’ life and needs. Mostly that happens in the cases when they have family or close one with vision impairment. rest ngos recruited sighted people are just so called trainers doing 6 to 7 hours comfortable job doing nothing out of the way. On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Bhivani It is not sighted or non sighted teachers that is the problem but the problem is that teachers dont know braille enough to teach the students therefore what we are getting is half baked braille readers. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: bhawani shankar verma bsvermad...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 recruitment of sighted teachers in blind schools should be reduce. also the special B.Ed. programmes for the blind should not be occupied by the sighted trainees. on the other hand, in the highcourt of bilaspur in the case nfb vs cg government, cg government pleaded that they could not find qualified blind candidates in chhattisgarh to fill the vacancies reserved for the blind. it is right upto some extent, because there was no blind applicant for the vacancies of teachers in social welfare deptt of chhattisgar. in such cases government has no option to fill the vacancies with other disabilities or with the sighted candidates. however, the highcourt has given time for 6 month to the secretary to excercise the matter again. Most of the NGOs are running shops on the name of blind welfare. but, the case may be same for the sighted people where the NGOs are working for various welfare programmes. - Original Message - From: Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Dear Mam You've put in so much efforts in putting things in 'perspective',thank you. Let me put things straight One: Computers are privileged commodities which can't be afford by 90% parents who have blind kids (see World Bank Report on India, 2007). Then Braille becomes emancipating and empowering tool for blind kids who are not in Delhi or Mumbai. two: I wonder why cost benefit analyses should be the responsibility of us, its the constitutional responsibility of the state. Isn't our Disability Act 1995 enjoins government to do so? If books are not supplied on time by government-owned presses, Can't so called disability activists organize sit-ins on the roads? bottomline: meetings and negotiations in AC rooms can not cure emergency situation. 3: practically writing, 'Inclusive education' is attractive 'buzzword' which masque the real discrimination and humiliation disabled children face in such schools which robs them of their childhood then adulthood. West-imported concept replicated in India is neither suited nor workable particularly in rural areas. . such schools cater to the needs of few selective fortunate boys/girls who are privileged enough to manage things on their own cost. four: 'Universal Design' again sounds wonderful, there is no mechanism how to operationalize it. How can I get to know bus-number? how to read which medicine my friend has given me to swallow? and yes how to identify notes? only trust holds the key. Blindness imposes certain limitation and State is obligated to provide greater resources to us. I think there should be syntheses between both Braille and latest technology. And government should work expeditiously to meet the needs of its neglected subjects, Note: majority of blind people are not citizens. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3 items mentioned in the budget-all these have been on the anvil for a while. Also we have to look at all the initiatives on e-tendering, egovernance, eclearances and a host of internet related matters that have been mentioned in the budget and outside it in the last 1 month. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: Preeti Monga preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled.' accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent:
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
It is very fact that person with blindness are not getting braille text, so this is good initiative taken by Modi government. but, there is still doubt on the implementation part, because all of us know well about n.i.v.h. braille press. I have personal experiance about this, whenever I went for the braile books, they told me that they are having lack of papers and other materials like envelop and continuous braille proof reader. some of books like slected reading on Gandhi and I found lot of braile mistake, in my second tour, I met director nivh anuradha Mohit, she gave phresh direction to correct those mistakes, but those mistakes are still there. during this journey, again I visited to nivh braille press, very surprisingly, I found that in nivh braille press, they were celling braille books which brailled in A.I.c.B. and Mumbai braille press. only, there was different that nivh was celling it on the 1-3th cost compare to aicb and Mumbai press. but still I am happy with old but new initiative for helthy development for v.i. educations. on the other hand, I am critical about Modi governmetn, because it is time, where disabled people are entering into higher education, so it requires some policy initiative for this as well. secondly, Jetli did not mention a single words about tax relactation of disabled emploies. even this budget did not give single pasa to disability affaires and policydevelopments. in the end, I am happy that this starting time where disabled agenda is comming into budget speech of parliament. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Well, mam, I said to make efforts. It means that a vi person can at least learn enough tactile markings to understand currency when they are launched with them. I have my grandmother at home, she has cataract in both eyes. But she manages to dial some selected numbers easily because we have explained her the mechanism of the mobile phone. If we just keep lamenting about illiteracy and make no effort, then we will have no progress in the world. On 7/10/14, pankaj Singh kushwaha justicewith...@gmail.com wrote: It is very fact that person with blindness are not getting braille text, so this is good initiative taken by Modi government. but, there is still doubt on the implementation part, because all of us know well about n.i.v.h. braille press. I have personal experiance about this, whenever I went for the braile books, they told me that they are having lack of papers and other materials like envelop and continuous braille proof reader. some of books like slected reading on Gandhi and I found lot of braile mistake, in my second tour, I met director nivh anuradha Mohit, she gave phresh direction to correct those mistakes, but those mistakes are still there. during this journey, again I visited to nivh braille press, very surprisingly, I found that in nivh braille press, they were celling braille books which brailled in A.I.c.B. and Mumbai braille press. only, there was different that nivh was celling it on the 1-3th cost compare to aicb and Mumbai press. but still I am happy with old but new initiative for helthy development for v.i. educations. on the other hand, I am critical about Modi governmetn, because it is time, where disabled people are entering into higher education, so it requires some policy initiative for this as well. secondly, Jetli did not mention a single words about tax relactation of disabled emploies. even this budget did not give single pasa to disability affaires and policydevelopments. in the end, I am happy that this starting time where disabled agenda is comming into budget speech of parliament. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. -- Avichal bhatnagar Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
I am welcome this disision! Something is better then before! Right? What you all say? Braille is not much difficult. So no excuse in this matter. Only 6 dots, atleast they have to make effort for learning reading braille. If hard to write braille. Waw! Waiting for the same! On 7/10/14, Avichal Bhatnagar coolavic...@gmail.com wrote: Well, mam, I said to make efforts. It means that a vi person can at least learn enough tactile markings to understand currency when they are launched with them. I have my grandmother at home, she has cataract in both eyes. But she manages to dial some selected numbers easily because we have explained her the mechanism of the mobile phone. If we just keep lamenting about illiteracy and make no effort, then we will have no progress in the world. On 7/10/14, pankaj Singh kushwaha justicewith...@gmail.com wrote: It is very fact that person with blindness are not getting braille text, so this is good initiative taken by Modi government. but, there is still doubt on the implementation part, because all of us know well about n.i.v.h. braille press. I have personal experiance about this, whenever I went for the braile books, they told me that they are having lack of papers and other materials like envelop and continuous braille proof reader. some of books like slected reading on Gandhi and I found lot of braile mistake, in my second tour, I met director nivh anuradha Mohit, she gave phresh direction to correct those mistakes, but those mistakes are still there. during this journey, again I visited to nivh braille press, very surprisingly, I found that in nivh braille press, they were celling braille books which brailled in A.I.c.B. and Mumbai braille press. only, there was different that nivh was celling it on the 1-3th cost compare to aicb and Mumbai press. but still I am happy with old but new initiative for helthy development for v.i. educations. on the other hand, I am critical about Modi governmetn, because it is time, where disabled people are entering into higher education, so it requires some policy initiative for this as well. secondly, Jetli did not mention a single words about tax relactation of disabled emploies. even this budget did not give single pasa to disability affaires and policydevelopments. in the end, I am happy that this starting time where disabled agenda is comming into budget speech of parliament. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. -- Avichal bhatnagar Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
madam! Most of the cases sighted teachers are not at all interested to learn braille. Even they don't have any devotion to their blind student. there are many shopping centers opened for special B.Ed where they can purchase their Degrees. Also those NGOs are doing advocacy for employment of the blind people, how many blind people have been placed in their own offices. - Original Message - From: Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Bhivani It is not sighted or non sighted teachers that is the problem but the problem is that teachers dont know braille enough to teach the students therefore what we are getting is half baked braille readers. Kanchan Pamnani Advocate Solicitor 9, Suleman Chambers, Battery Street, Colaba, Mumbai - 400 039. - Original Message - From: bhawani shankar verma bsvermad...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 recruitment of sighted teachers in blind schools should be reduce. also the special B.Ed. programmes for the blind should not be occupied by the sighted trainees. on the other hand, in the highcourt of bilaspur in the case nfb vs cg government, cg government pleaded that they could not find qualified blind candidates in chhattisgarh to fill the vacancies reserved for the blind. it is right upto some extent, because there was no blind applicant for the vacancies of teachers in social welfare deptt of chhattisgar. in such cases government has no option to fill the vacancies with other disabilities or with the sighted candidates. however, the highcourt has given time for 6 month to the secretary to excercise the matter again. Most of the NGOs are running shops on the name of blind welfare. but, the case may be same for the sighted people where the NGOs are working for various welfare programmes. - Original Message - From: Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number of persons with congenitle blindness is reducing because of better nutrition, eradication of smallpox etc. The number of late blind is increasing for various reasons including the fact that people are living longer and may get age related diseases so the kinds of users is changing. This does not take away from the fact that braille is important but acceptance of universal design is important too. We must also focus on the other 3
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
NIVH has become a marketing agency like hidustan liver. they are buying products from the small scale inddustries and selling them in the market with their lables. - Original Message - From: pankaj Singh kushwaha justicewith...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 It is very fact that person with blindness are not getting braille text, so this is good initiative taken by Modi government. but, there is still doubt on the implementation part, because all of us know well about n.i.v.h. braille press. I have personal experiance about this, whenever I went for the braile books, they told me that they are having lack of papers and other materials like envelop and continuous braille proof reader. some of books like slected reading on Gandhi and I found lot of braile mistake, in my second tour, I met director nivh anuradha Mohit, she gave phresh direction to correct those mistakes, but those mistakes are still there. during this journey, again I visited to nivh braille press, very surprisingly, I found that in nivh braille press, they were celling braille books which brailled in A.I.c.B. and Mumbai braille press. only, there was different that nivh was celling it on the 1-3th cost compare to aicb and Mumbai press. but still I am happy with old but new initiative for helthy development for v.i. educations. on the other hand, I am critical about Modi governmetn, because it is time, where disabled people are entering into higher education, so it requires some policy initiative for this as well. secondly, Jetli did not mention a single words about tax relactation of disabled emploies. even this budget did not give single pasa to disability affaires and policydevelopments. in the end, I am happy that this starting time where disabled agenda is comming into budget speech of parliament. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
We face more problems in recognising coins than notes. Notes can be arranged in order of size inside the purse. It is also easy to remember exactly the denominations of the notes I have in my pocket in most of the cases. It will be better if the government maintains a particular size and shape of each coin. As for Braille press, I always appreciate any initiative by any NGO or the government. I still read Braille and can't sleep without reading a few pages. With best regards, Amiyo Biswas Cell: +91-9433464329 - Original Message - From: bhawani shankar verma bsvermad...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issuesconcerning thedisabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 NIVH has become a marketing agency like hidustan liver. they are buying products from the small scale inddustries and selling them in the market with their lables. - Original Message - From: pankaj Singh kushwaha justicewith...@gmail.com To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerningthe disabled. accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 It is very fact that person with blindness are not getting braille text, so this is good initiative taken by Modi government. but, there is still doubt on the implementation part, because all of us know well about n.i.v.h. braille press. I have personal experiance about this, whenever I went for the braile books, they told me that they are having lack of papers and other materials like envelop and continuous braille proof reader. some of books like slected reading on Gandhi and I found lot of braile mistake, in my second tour, I met director nivh anuradha Mohit, she gave phresh direction to correct those mistakes, but those mistakes are still there. during this journey, again I visited to nivh braille press, very surprisingly, I found that in nivh braille press, they were celling braille books which brailled in A.I.c.B. and Mumbai braille press. only, there was different that nivh was celling it on the 1-3th cost compare to aicb and Mumbai press. but still I am happy with old but new initiative for helthy development for v.i. educations. on the other hand, I am critical about Modi governmetn, because it is time, where disabled people are entering into higher education, so it requires some policy initiative for this as well. secondly, Jetli did not mention a single words about tax relactation of disabled emploies. even this budget did not give single pasa to disability affaires and policydevelopments. in the end, I am happy that this starting time where disabled agenda is comming into budget speech of parliament. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Well said! Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR Advisory; including demystifying workshops and counseling. Printing Solutions, Incentive Travel and Marketing Data Mining / Refining.. We assure high quality service marked with excellence and complete customer centricity, forming Synergies as we go along. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 10:42 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Well, mam, I said to make efforts. It means that a vi person can at least learn enough tactile markings to understand currency when they are launched with them. I have my grandmother at home, she has cataract in both eyes. But she manages to dial some selected numbers easily because we have explained her the mechanism of the mobile phone. If we just keep lamenting about illiteracy and make no effort, then we will have no progress in the world. On 7/10/14, pankaj Singh kushwaha justicewith...@gmail.com wrote: It is very fact that person with blindness are not getting braille text, so this is good initiative taken by Modi government. but, there is still doubt on the implementation part, because all of us know well about n.i.v.h. braille press. I have personal experiance about this, whenever I went for the braile books, they told me that they are having lack of papers and other materials like envelop and continuous braille proof reader. some of books like slected reading on Gandhi and I found lot of braile mistake, in my second tour, I met director nivh anuradha Mohit, she gave phresh direction to correct those mistakes, but those mistakes are still there. during this journey, again I visited to nivh braille press, very surprisingly, I found that in nivh braille press, they were celling braille books which brailled in A.I.c.B. and Mumbai braille press. only, there was different that nivh was celling it on the 1-3th cost compare to aicb and Mumbai press. but still I am happy with old but new initiative for helthy development for v.i. educations. on the other hand, I am critical about Modi governmetn, because it is time, where disabled people are entering into higher education, so it requires some policy initiative for this as well. secondly, Jetli did not mention a single words about tax relactation of disabled emploies. even this budget did not give single pasa to disability affaires and policydevelopments. in the end, I am happy that this starting time where disabled agenda is comming into budget speech of parliament. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessind ia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. -- Avichal bhatnagar Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessind ia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Register at the dedicated AccessIndia list for discussing accessibility of mobile phones / Tabs on: http://mail.accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/mobile.accessindia_accessindia.org.in Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia
Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014
Yes, Avinash, you have pointed out true and very important points. I do hope things get going here in our country! Preeti Preeti Monga Director Mobile: +91 9871701646 Landline: 011 22781446 E-mail: preeti.mo...@silver-linings.co.in Website: www.silver-linings.co.in ; www.silver-linings.org Our Services: Executive Search - Specializing in Head Hunting. Training Motivation; Stress Management; Soft Skill; Behavioral. Gifting Corporate ; Promotional; Events. End to end CSR Advisory; including demystifying workshops and counseling. Printing Solutions, Incentive Travel and Marketing Data Mining / Refining.. We assure high quality service marked with excellence and complete customer centricity, forming Synergies as we go along. -Original Message- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of avinash shahi Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:39 PM To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. Subject: Re: [AI] braille BUDGET 2014 Dear Mam You've put in so much efforts in putting things in 'perspective',thank you. Let me put things straight One: Computers are privileged commodities which can't be afford by 90% parents who have blind kids (see World Bank Report on India, 2007). Then Braille becomes emancipating and empowering tool for blind kids who are not in Delhi or Mumbai. two: I wonder why cost benefit analyses should be the responsibility of us, its the constitutional responsibility of the state. Isn't our Disability Act 1995 enjoins government to do so? If books are not supplied on time by government-owned presses, Can't so called disability activists organize sit-ins on the roads? bottomline: meetings and negotiations in AC rooms can not cure emergency situation. 3: practically writing, 'Inclusive education' is attractive 'buzzword' which masque the real discrimination and humiliation disabled children face in such schools which robs them of their childhood then adulthood. West-imported concept replicated in India is neither suited nor workable particularly in rural areas. . such schools cater to the needs of few selective fortunate boys/girls who are privileged enough to manage things on their own cost. four: 'Universal Design' again sounds wonderful, there is no mechanism how to operationalize it. How can I get to know bus-number? how to read which medicine my friend has given me to swallow? and yes how to identify notes? only trust holds the key. Blindness imposes certain limitation and State is obligated to provide greater resources to us. I think there should be syntheses between both Braille and latest technology. And government should work expeditiously to meet the needs of its neglected subjects, Note: majority of blind people are not citizens. On 7/10/14, Kanchan Pamnani kanchanpamn...@gmail.com wrote: Lets start with the fact that Braille is important even today-there is no dispute or difference on this statement amongst us. Now lets see the issues in perspective- 1. We have a problem with texts not reaching the students in time for the academic year.So the government has budgeted for improvement of old braille presses and setting up new ones. Great laudable initiative. a. Has anyone amongst us spoken about the quality of reading by our so called braille teachers? Unless we demand quality education from both inclusive and special schools we are not going to go further. The basics of education for a blind child is braille and I am sorry to see the condition of braille reading in this country. For this we can blame our teachers and for the bad quality of teachers we can blame the NGOs to some extent, who train and certify such teachers. Who is going to bell this cat? The problem of material may soon get over because of this budget but then who is going to use this material and who is going to decipher it for our young ones? b. I cannot comment on the financial issues of running a braille press because I have never gone into that area with any NGO. there are many who can comment on this issue. c. The quality of material churned out by these Braille presses- I cannot comment from my own knowledge but I am told by many people who use these presses that the quality is not so good now because the proof reading is not good enough. d. The issue of distribution, merging with technology and widening the reach of these presses others who deal with these matters can fill us in with. 2. Notes with Braille marking-great initiative on paper This has been in the pipeline for quite a while. a. The possibility of actually being able to distinguish marks whether braille or raised numbers or some tactile indicators depends upon the paper used and on how we use the notes.Therefore I think it is a great initiative but may not result in much. RBI is going to come out with Rs. 10 notes in plastic-maybe that can be a test case for the tactile markings. b. The number
