Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
they don't already exist. If you manually enable auto-rescan, or if it had been enabled previously, autorescan: 1 then SBS does not disable it on startup. I'm not sure if actually runs, though, or if there are other safeguards to keep if from running on Windows. Jim - do you know whether there's a bug filed for this particular issue (pref not being reset on Windows, but no way to disable it)? I'll try to fix this today. -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Revision 32611 should reset the autorescan value on Windows. Michael Am 04.07.2011, 10:38 Uhr, schrieb Michael Herger s...@herger.net: they don't already exist. If you manually enable auto-rescan, or if it had been enabled previously, autorescan: 1 then SBS does not disable it on startup. I'm not sure if actually runs, though, or if there are other safeguards to keep if from running on Windows. Jim - do you know whether there's a bug filed for this particular issue (pref not being reset on Windows, but no way to disable it)? I'll try to fix this today. -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
mherger;639207 Wrote: then SBS does not disable it on startup. I'm not sure if actually runs, though, or if there are other safeguards to keep if from running on Windows.[/color] Jim - do you know whether there's a bug filed for this particular issue (pref not being reset on Windows, but no way to disable it)? I'll try to fix this today. I'm not sure that qualifies as a bug if it only applies to beta testers. I would suggest that autorescan should never be able to run on Windows, regardless of the pref setting. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
mherger;639207 Wrote:
they don't already exist. If you manually enable auto-rescan, or if
it
had been enabled previously,
autorescan: 1
then SBS does not disable it on startup. I'm not sure if actually
runs,
though, or if there are other safeguards to keep if from running on
Windows.
Jim - do you know whether there's a bug filed for this particular issue
(pref not being reset on Windows, but no way to disable it)? I'll try
to
fix this today.
Did a quick search but didn't find anything, but the following bug
report is the one where the GUI for it was hidden on Windows, so I
guess it could be seen as a correction on this bug:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17139
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17139 Thanks, I left a comment in that bug. -- Michael ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;639042 Wrote: For me, the obvious solution on the Touch, would be to just ask the user a question when you plugin a new drive/stick, like New media detected, do you want to scan it for music files ? It doesn't have to have any option to turn it off, the above question would Yes I agree. May be add some more information if library exists Do you want to use existing library or rescan ? If no library exists, may be something like do you want to create a library or browse folders ? library is a more user friendly word than database Terminology should be carefully choosen after looking at what is done in popular user friendly music softwares. -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Autoscan is a nice feature if 1/ it is very reliable 2/ it is very fast Exactly and my point is that if you can't accomplish that you shouldn't do auto scan at all. There doesn't have to be an option because it shouldn't even exist unless it's reliable and fast. What's irritating is that Foobar2000 handles auto-rescans perfectly. New tracks show up almost instantly -- even over Wifi to a library on a server. Deleted tracks disappear. There's clearly some way to code this on Windows so that it works well, reliably and unobtrusively. SBB ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Steve Baumgarten;639097 Wrote: Autoscan is a nice feature if 1/ it is very reliable 2/ it is very fast Exactly and my point is that if you can't accomplish that you shouldn't do auto scan at all. There doesn't have to be an option because it shouldn't even exist unless it's reliable and fast. What's irritating is that Foobar2000 handles auto-rescans perfectly. New tracks show up almost instantly -- even over Wifi to a library on a server. Deleted tracks disappear. There's clearly some way to code this on Windows so that it works well, reliably and unobtrusively. SBB +1. foobar2000 autorescan causes no issues for me with 60,000+ tracks in library. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;638857 Wrote:
I've forgotten what the recent changes to auto-rescan do on platforms
other than Windows. Is it now disabled by default on those platforms?
As far as I can see from the code, it currently looks as follows:
- SqueezeOS: Enabled by default
- Windows: Disabled by default, no user interface where it's possible
to enable
- Linux/OSX/Others: Disabled by default, possible to enable through SBS
Settings/Advanced/Performance
Some people which have been using earlier beta versions where it was
enabled by default might of course still have auto scanning enabled.
This is mostly problematic for Windows beta testers as they don't have
any way to disable it without manually editing server.prefs file.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;638884 Wrote: As far as I can see from the code, it currently looks as follows: - SqueezeOS: Enabled by default - Windows: Disabled by default, no user interface where it's possible to enable - Linux/OSX/Others: Disabled by default, possible to enable through SBS Settings/Advanced/Performance Thanks. That's what I thought. Some people which have been using earlier beta versions where it was enabled by default might of course still have auto scanning enabled. This is mostly problematic for Windows beta testers as they don't have any way to disable it without manually editing server.prefs file. Yes. I can confirm this. The two prefs autorescan: 0 autorescan_stat_interval: 10 always exist the server.prefs file. Even on Windows, they're created if they don't already exist. If you manually enable auto-rescan, or if it had been enabled previously, autorescan: 1 then SBS does not disable it on startup. I'm not sure if actually runs, though, or if there are other safeguards to keep if from running on Windows. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Even if autorescan is not enabled, it is not possible to disable rescan at startup. No music software works like that (at least popular and user friendly ones). Check earlier posts in this thread, or http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9687 -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;638890 Wrote: Even if autorescan is not enabled, it is not possible to disable rescan at startup. There is no rescan on startup (except with the embedded server on Touch). There is an _initial_ scan if no database is found. If you don't want the initial scan (maybe because your library settings aren't yet set correctly), then it can easily be aborted. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;638893 Wrote: There is no rescan on startup (except with the embedded server on Touch). There is an _initial_ scan if no database is found. If you don't want the initial scan (maybe because your library settings aren't yet set correctly), then it can easily be aborted. Which version of SBS version are you using ? Has this recently changed in 7.5 ? I am using Version : 7.6.0 - r32594 @ Fri Jul 1 02:05:25 PDT 2011 I have always had database verification at startup and I still have. Even if my database is existing. Of course it is much faster if everything is ok, so may be you never noticed it. If your music folder (I am talking about the music folder, NOT the database) is on a network or external drive and not necessarily immediatly available, the current behavior is a complete nonsense. It simply erases your existing and up to date database ... I am not aware of any user friendly music software behaving like that. Please don't tell me your are playing with words (initial scan - rescan - database verification - etc ...) We obviously should able to disable it also for TinySBS Please read again the thread and http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9687 -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;638896 Wrote: Which version of SBS version are you using ? I run both 7.5 and 7.6. I am using Version : 7.6.0 - r32594 @ Fri Jul 1 02:05:25 PDT 2011 I have always had database verification at startup and I still have. Even if my database is existing. Do you mean a library rescan at startup? What is a 'database verification'? Do you see evidence of a rescan at startup in your server.log? And if you go to Settings Information, do you see it in 'Music Scan Details' (you should be able to tell by the date and time that the last scan finished)? I see neither. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;638899 Wrote: Do you see evidence of a rescan at startup in your server.log? And if you go to Settings Information, do you see it in 'Music Scan Details' (you should be able to tell by the date and time that the last scan finished)? I see neither. 1/ Start SBS and have it running fine. 2/ Stop SBS 3/ Check what's in server.log and scanner.log content 3/ Start again SBS, according to you, no rescan should occur whatsoever 4/ Check if there is something new in server.log and scanner.log, compared with step 3 Is the something new ? If yes, can you post new lines added in server.log and scanner.log ? Another quick test to show the most problematic consequence. 1/ Start SBS and have it running fine. 2/ Stop SBS 3/ Rename your music folder before starting SBS, in order to simulate a music folder not immediatly available for any reason (located on network, temporary timeout, external drive, etc ... it doesn't matter) 4/ Start SBS (your database is existing, fine, and ready to behave normally as soon as your music folder is reachable) Can you tel me if your database is erased or not after this test ? -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;638900 Wrote: 1/ Start SBS and have it running fine. 2/ Stop SBS 3/ Check what's in server.log and scanner.log content 4/ Start again SBS, according to you, no rescan should occur whatsoever 5/ Check if there is something new in server.log and scanner.log, compared with step 3 Is the something new ? If yes, can you post new lines added in server.log and scanner.log ? No change to scanner.log. The date time of the file is from yesterday (the last time I ran a full clear rescan). Only this line is added to server.log: Code: [11-07-02 04:20:18.7087] main::init (349) Starting Squeezebox Server (v7.6.0, rTRUNK, UNKNOWN) perl 5.010001 Another quick test to show the most problematic consequence. 1/ Start SBS and have it running fine. 2/ Stop SBS 3/ Rename your music folder before starting SBS, in order to simulate a music folder not immediatly available for any reason (located on network, temporary timeout, external drive, etc ... it doesn't matter) 4/ Start SBS (your database is existing, fine, and ready to behave normally as soon as your music folder is reachable) Can you tel me if your database is erased or not after this test ? No, it's not. The scanner.log remains unchanged, the server log has only this: Code: [11-07-02 04:41:57.8962] main::init (349) Starting Squeezebox Server (v7.6.0, rTRUNK, UNKNOWN) perl 5.010001 [11-07-02 04:42:00.2011] Slim::Web::JSONRPC::requestMethod (443) request not dispatchable! Data is gradually removed from the library database if I navigate through it (seems like you have to navigate down to the track level before it happens), but it's not done automatically at startup. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;638896 Wrote:
I have always had database verification at startup and I still have.
Even if my database is existing.
Of course it is much faster if everything is ok, so may be you never
noticed it.
If your music folder (I am talking about the music folder, NOT the
database) is on a network or external drive and not necessarily
immediatly available, the current behavior is a complete nonsense.
It simply erases your existing and up to date database ...
I am not aware of any user friendly music software behaving like that.
Just to be sure, are you talking about SBS on Windows or some other
platform ?
Are you using the MusicIP or iTunes scanner intergration ?
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
I am on Windows 7 x64 This is probably one of the most common OS used today, at least for new computers, and obviously the first one which should be tested when a user problem is reported. (Linux flavors or NAS is for experienced users or geeks). No Music IP, nor Itunes, or any other plugins or integrations With the tests I talked about. - I have evidence of rescan in server.log and scanner.log after restart - this is confirmed by the date and time shown for last scan finished - my library is erased when the second test -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Reading back through this thread, it seems we've already had this conversation. In your server.prefs file, what is the value of 'autorescan'? If it's '1', then autorescan is still enabled on your system. This is for the reason that erland and I discussed above - because you were running the beta before the change that disabled autorescan on Windows. You need to stop the server and manually change it to '0' or else start over with a new server.prefs file. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;638917 Wrote: Reading back through this thread, it seems we've already had this conversation. In your server.prefs file, what is the value of 'autorescan'? If it's '1', then autorescan is still enabled on your system. This is for the reason that erland and I discussed above - because you were running the beta before the change that disabled autorescan on Windows. You need to stop the server and manually change it to '0' or else start over with a new server.prefs file. You are right. I changed it to 0 and it is now fine. Is there any chance that installing 7.6 updates re-enabled this flag ? I am quite sure I disabled it when we talked about it some time ago. I'll check again after next update if it is still disabled. That's good news. But I still think it should be the same for TinySBS. This is even more important for TinySBS than for SBS, because of its very limited performance. -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;638918 Wrote:
But I still think it should be the same for TinySBS.
This is even more important for TinySBS than for SBS, because of its
very limited performance.
Please start a new thread if you want to discuss TinySBS, there are a
lot of other options also missing and if I remember correctly it isn't
possible to trigger a manual rescan with TinySBS, so it needs support
for manual rescans if we want it to be possible to turn of automatic
rescans. I think the idea is that the user shouldn't have to care, just
plugin the USB drive with music and start playing. IMHO it's really
designed for USB sticks rather than a stationary large USB drive with a
lot of files.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;638930 Wrote:
I my opinion, we need more a bug report than a new thread.
There is http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9687 with 5 votes,
but nobody cares.
This one should be closed or not ?
Should we open another ? but it will start with 0 votes ...
The above bug is about another problem focused at SBS on a computer,
but I think the following two are fairly good matches:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5507 (Make it possible to
request manual rescan)
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16564 (Make it possible to
disable auto scan)
nicolas75;638930 Wrote:
I use TinySBS with a USB stick 8 GB
I would not say it is plugin the USB drive with music and start
playing
When you develop a user interface, waiting more than 3 seconds is
considered long and the user should have information about how much
time he is going to wait.
When I plug my USB stick, I wait much more than 3 seconds before being
able to play music.
So even in this case (there are 16, 32, even 64 GB usb stick ...) this
is not plug and play.
Actually my (powerful, I know that) laptop takes less time to boot
Windows Seven x64, than my Touch to allow me using my 8 GB USB stick.
An option to disable startup scan, and an option to manually scan the
usb stick, are mandatory.
And it would allow people to use bigger external HDD without too much
trouble.
I know it doesn't work good as it is now.
I was just trying to say that the reason it performs a rescan is
because it does assumes you have changed the USB drive every time
TinySBS is started or the drive re-connected.
However, if you disable startup scan you need to add an option to make
it possible for the user to do a manual rescan, that's the above
mentioned bug #5507 I linked to.
Also, if it doesn't do the rescan at startup, when should it scan the
changed files on your drive/stick which has been changed while the
drive/stick was connected to another computer ?
There are basically two main strategies:
1. Assume something has changed and perform a rescan immediately after
SBS is started or drive is re-connected.
or
2. Assume nothing has changed and force the user to manually perform a
rescan to detect changes.
TinySBS has currently selected strategy 1, probably because Logitech
wanted to simplify the user interface and assume you often change files
on the USB stick/drive while it isn't connected to the Touch.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;638939 Wrote: The above bug is about another problem focused at SBS on a computer, but I think the following two are fairly good matches: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5507 (Make it possible to request manual rescan) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16564 (Make it possible to disable auto scan) I know it doesn't work good as it is now. I was just trying to say that the reason it performs a rescan is because it does assumes you have changed the USB drive every time TinySBS is started or the drive re-connected. However, if you disable startup scan you need to add an option to make it possible for the user to do a manual rescan, that's the above mentioned bug #5507 I linked to. Also, if it doesn't do the rescan at startup, when should it scan the changed files on your drive/stick which has been changed while the drive/stick was connected to another computer ? There are basically two main strategies: 1. Assume something has changed and perform a rescan immediately after SBS is started or drive is re-connected. or 2. Assume nothing has changed and force the user to manually perform a rescan to detect changes. TinySBS has currently selected strategy 1, probably because Logitech wanted to simplify the user interface and assume you often change files on the USB stick/drive while it isn't connected to the Touch. When you are developping softwares (I do), and when two strategies are possible, the wise option is to assume that some users will happy with one, and some others will be happy with the other one. Since those two options can very easily co-exist, any sensible people responsible for this software development should immediatly, and with no hesitation, make the choice to make both available. I would have not even thought about not being able to disable automatic scan at startup, and about not giving an option to rescan on demand. Testing TinySBS for only a few hours make this absolutely obvious. I like squeezeboxes a lot, but they seriously lacks non geek approach in their user interface. I has improved with 7.6, but in my opinion, it is still far from being good. -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;639014 Wrote:
Testing TinySBS for only a few hours make this absolutely obvious.
I completely agree and if I remember correctly it was mentioned many
times during the TinySBS beta testing before the Touch release, but
unfortunately Logitech wanted to stick to the automatic solution which
didn't require any manual operation.
nicolas75;639014 Wrote:
I like squeezeboxes a lot, but they seriously lacks non geek approach
in their user interface.
I has improved with 7.6, but in my opinion, it is still far from being
good.
I completely agree.
But I suppose you realize that a non geek approach would result in
automatic scanning since the need to do a manual scanning by itself is
geeky. My parents doesn't want to manually select to scan the hard
drive they just want to plugin the drive and start playing the music on
it.
Before you object, yes I agree that it currently doesn't work like that
on the Touch, mainly due to performance issues.
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;639021 Wrote: But I suppose you realize that a non geek approach would result in automatic scanning since the need to do a manual scanning by itself is geeky. This is the only point where we disagree. On the contrary (it was discussed on the forum, I don't remember where), most user friendly music softwares do not have any kind of automatic scan. Actually, I am not aware of a music software with automatic scan (except squeezeboxes softwares) Can you provide an example ? In my opinion, the normal and expected simplest behavior, is to manually browse folders. Check softwares like MediaMonkey for example (it is not perfect, and I don't use it anymore), the library management is very easy, not automatic, and way faster than SBS. -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
MusicIP has (optionly) automatic scan. The way they do it is to have check boxes. +---+ |Filename: MIP auto scan.JPG| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12035| +---+ -- Wirrunna A camel is a racehorse designed by a committee. Wirrunna's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3225 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
This is the only point where we disagree. I disagree too. I don't see manual scanning as geeky, and I don't recall any objections to current manual scan functionality being geeky in the last 5 years of SBS. Other consumer devices probably have similar manual scanning situations. iTunes, IIRC doesn't have auto scanning, only supports manual library scanning, and user has to select what to sync to an iPod manually. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
MusicIP has (optionly) automatic scan. The way they do it is to have check boxes. It does, and it works fairly well, compared to other software with auto-scanning. However, it does miss file new files/changed files from time to time. Sometimes I have to close and re-open MusicIP to detect missing things, or use the Web UI to force it to manually update. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;639028 Wrote: MusicIP has (optionly) automatic scan. The way they do it is to have check boxes. It does, and it works fairly well, compared to other software with auto-scanning. However, it does miss file new files/changed files from time to time. Sometimes I have to close and re-open MusicIP to detect missing things, or use the Web UI to force it to manually update. I remember MusicIP was discussed as well as MediaMonkey. It didn't remember there was autoscan option. Autoscan is a nice feature if 1/ it is very reliable 2/ it is very fast This cannot be always 100% fulfilled That's why having the ability to disable it is mandatory. If you cannot disable autoscan, you should have no autoscan at all. (And I guess most people are happy without autoscan) -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;639032 Wrote:
Autoscan is a nice feature if
1/ it is very reliable
2/ it is very fast
Exactly and my point is that if you can't accomplish that you shouldn't
do auto scan at all. There doesn't have to be an option because it
shouldn't even exist unless it's reliable and fast.
Manual scan is a work around because you can't make auto scan reliable
and/or fast enough.
My feeling is still that in the ideal world no one should have to do a
manual scan, all of us just want to access the music. But in the real
world it's hard to accomplish this and in that case it's better to not
do auto scan at all. An auto scan solution that only works in 80% of
all cases is pointless because then you have do do manual scans anyway
and then most users are going to do manual scans always because they
don't trust the auto scanning system.
For me, the obvious solution on the Touch, would be to just ask the
user a question when you plugin a new drive/stick, like New media
detected, do you want to scan it for music files ?
It doesn't have to have any option to turn it off, the above question
would be enough.
On the full SBS, don't include auto scan at all unless it's 100%
reliable.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
This seems to have fixed the problem, thanks a lot! But I still firmly believe there should be an option to switch autorescan off. JJZolx;638635 Wrote: I've never seen a 'database disk image is malformed' log entry, but I would expect SBS to rebuild the database when it thinks the database is corrupt and can't be used. It can't operate otherwise. Something is very wrong on your server. I would start by stopping Squeezebox Server and deleting everything in the cache folder. Then restart SBS and it will launch the external scanner to build the database from scratch. After it completes, test to make sure things work correctly. Then stop and restart the server and see if you get another 'malformed' log entry, or whether SBS launches another scan at startup. -- el_jefe el_jefe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
el_jefe;638787 Wrote:
This seems to have fixed the problem, thanks a lot! But I still firmly
believe there should be an option to switch autorescan off.
There is, on the platforms that support auto rescan.
On Windows it isn't supported, so it's turned off by default and there
isn't an option to turn it on without manually editing the prefs files,
something you shouldn't do since the reason it was removed is because it
doesn't work correctly.
On Linux, it's possible to turn on/off auto rescan through the SBS
settings page.
On SqueezeOS (built-in server in Touch) it's always activated and this
is the case already in 7.5 embedded which current official Touch
release uses for its built-in server.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
el_jefe;638787 Wrote: ... But I still firmly believe there should be an option to switch autorescan off. This is obvious and this issue has been raised long time ago. If you do think so, vote for the following bug. http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9687 Logitech may pay attention to this kind of problems if non geek users do vote for bugs. (I agree this feature is so obvious, that I can hardly understand what developpers had in mind when they wrote the code for current behaviour) -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
I've forgotten what the recent changes to auto-rescan do on platforms other than Windows. Is it now disabled by default on those platforms? -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Can someone please let me know how to turn-off autorescan? As discussed, the option in WebUI is missing and even setting autorescan: 0 doesn't fix it - my computer still rescans when I wake it up from sleep and at restart. I am at r32566, Windows 7 64bit. It's completely unacceptable to not give people the option to disable autorescan. Is Logitech turning into Apple?! Come on! I have a pretty fast, 1 yr. old machine with fast 7200 RPM drives and I am still seeing a huge slow down because of autorescan when I wake-up my machine from sleep in the morning. I only add music to my library every month or two so why the hell would I want it to rescan 15000+ tracks every time I wake-up my computer?! -- el_jefe el_jefe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
el_jefe;638613 Wrote:
Can someone please let me know how to turn-off autorescan? As discussed,
the option in WebUI is missing and even setting autorescan: 0 doesn't
fix it - my computer still rescans when I wake it up from sleep and at
restart. I am at r32566, Windows 7 64bit.
Try if it works to just remove the autorescan: 0 line from the
server.prefs file.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;638617 Wrote: Try if it works to just remove the autorescan: 0 line from the server.prefs file. Thanks! I'll give it a shot. -- el_jefe el_jefe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
SBS will add it back again (I just tested it) if it recognizes that the server is running on Windows, so I don't see what difference it will make. I can't see why SBS would be launching a scan at startup unless it thinks there's no database. That should be easy enough to determine from the log files. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;638628 Wrote: SBS will add it back again (I just tested it) if it recognizes that the server is running on Windows, so I don't see what difference it will make. I can't see why SBS would be launching a scan at startup unless it thinks there's no database. That should be easy enough to determine from the log files. I'm not at that machine right now, so I'll check my logs and report back. -- el_jefe el_jefe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;638628 Wrote: SBS will add it back again (I just tested it) if it recognizes that the server is running on Windows, so I don't see what difference it will make. I can't see why SBS would be launching a scan at startup unless it thinks there's no database. That should be easy enough to determine from the log files. Ok, got several free minutes and got the logs remotely. Here we go: Code: [11-06-30 09:26:56.1473] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_players_error (317) Unable to get players from SN: Couldn't resolve IP address for: www.mysqueezebox.com, retrying in 300 seconds [11-06-30 09:28:10.5497] Slim::Utils::Scanner::Local::rescan (163) Discovering files in E:\Jukebox\Albums [11-06-30 09:28:36.7555] Slim::Utils::Scanner::Local::__ANON__ (235) Removing deleted files (126) [11-06-30 09:28:36.8302] Slim::Utils::Scanner::Local::__ANON__ (291) Scanning new files (3) [11-06-30 09:28:36.8590] Slim::Utils::Scanner::Local::__ANON__ (347) Rescanning changed files (0) [11-06-30 09:28:36.9986] Slim::Music::Artwork::precacheAllArtwork (435) Starting precacheArtwork for 5 albums [11-06-30 09:28:37.1286] Slim::Music::Artwork::__ANON__ (528) precacheArtwork finished in 0.129412889480591 [11-06-30 09:31:02.8387] Slim::Schema::Storage::throw_exception (119) Error: DBI Exception: DBD::SQLite::db do failed: database disk image is malformed [for Statement ANALYZE;] So I don't think it believes that the library is missing - it just rescans automatically. It doesn't do a full rescan, just checks for new files. But when I check in Window's Resource Monitor, I see thousands of files being read, all of the already in the library of course. I just want to point out that his basically makes SuqeezeServer useless for me, because it share the machine with other servers, which become practically unaccessible while SqueezeServer is scanning... -- el_jefe el_jefe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Ha! Nice catch - I didn't even notice that line. OK. I am rebuilding right now and I'll check what happens next time it starts. Thanks! JJZolx;638635 Wrote: I've never seen a 'database disk image is malformed' log entry, but I would expect SBS to rebuild the database when it thinks the database is corrupt and can't be used. It can't operate otherwise. Something is very wrong on your server. I would start by stopping Squeezebox Server and deleting everything in the cache folder. Then restart SBS and it will launch the external scanner to build the database from scratch. After it completes, test to make sure things work correctly. Then stop and restart the server and see if you get another 'malformed' log entry, or whether SBS launches another scan at startup. -- el_jefe el_jefe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32427 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;624432 Wrote: I think it's a design choice, as far as I've understood the reason is that they want to make sure you have access to the music immediately after running the setup wizard, they don't want an extra manual step where you have to understand that you need to know how to perform a rescan later to get access to the music. It is a design choice but, for instance, the default is to split multi-disc albums, which is stupid. And then once you realise it's happened you have to change the option and then wait for a full clear and rescan again. Not trivial once you get into tens of thousands of tracks. -- paulster paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
I have a couple of issues with auto-scan if library is empty: 1. After first-time install, there might not be any music in the default location (eg. My Music is empty for me, except for an iTunes library). 2. If the scanner crashes SBS, then SBS needs restarting. Thus SBS can't really be started and tweaked to investigate. 3. The settings might not be correct; I'd be annoyed if after waiting 1 hour to scan music, I then find it doesn't look right, need to tweak settings and discover a full rescan is necessary. (1) Maybe this isn't a problem if the setup wizard prompts the user. I've never seen the setup wizard. Does it prompt for many settings, such as where is your music located?. I heard that it didn't. (2) Shouldn't happen, but Scanner in 7.6 seems very unreliable, and it's crashing randomly for me. I can't get a full scan to complete, and it crashes quite quickly. Hence, every time I start up, it rescans and crashes. (3) It's worth showing the user any settings that if changed would require a full rescan, before doing a scan. There is also an auto-rescan when a setting is changed that affects the way the scanner works, which is also annoying in that it's not always obvious and there can be multiple settings to change (such as music path on one settings tab, and separator character on another settings tab). Suggested Improvement: It's hard to see what might affect a scan at the moment (some options have tooltips to say a rescan will automatically start when apply is pressed). Options are spread across at least two tabs (Basic Settings and Music Library Settings). I think any settings that control or require a library rescan should be on a separate settings tab called Library Scan, instead of mixed in with all of the other settings. They are more likely to be a once-off configuration, and there's not many of them. I'd even just have a single Full Rescan button action on this Library Scan settings page, and have Scan for changes on a separate page. but thats not what i'm suggesting. at the end of the wizard, a prompt could appear that simply says Allow SBS to scan for your Music now? and the choices would be Yes or No Either: 1) Display a message at the end of the wizard, so it is truly a one-off occasion (as the wizard will only be run once). This could run the out-of-process scanner, before starting SBS. 2) When SBS is started, show a warning that the library is empty and a scan is required on the player UI. The web UI could even auto-open the scan settings page and display the message. Don't auto-rescan, let the user decide when to rescan. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
paulster;624442 Wrote: It is a design choice but, for instance, the default is to split multi-disc albums, which is stupid. And then once you realise it's happened you have to change the option and then wait for a full clear and rescan again. Not trivial once you get into tens of thousands of tracks. No, you don't have to wait for the full scan to finish and then start it all over again. You can abort the scan from the web settings page. The default setting for grouping multi-disc albums has been change for 7.6. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
is the setting to disable auto scan really removed from the web-UI ? That would be stupid on a grand scale ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Mnyb;624447 Wrote: is the setting to disable auto scan really removed from the web-UI ? That would be stupid on a grand scale ? Yes, it looks like it's been removed: +---+ |Filename: 32263.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11678| +---+ -- kidstypike kidstypike 1xSB3 - 1xDuet - 1xBoom - 1xRadio - 1xTouch kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Mnyb;624447 Wrote: is the setting to disable auto scan really removed from the web-UI ? That would be stupid on a grand scale ? Why? It's not only removed, but also disabled because it's not working... -- verypsb 1x Boom, 1x Classic, 1x Duet, 1x Receiver, 1x Touch Please vote for bug 16791 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16791) verypsb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17295 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
verypsb;624451 Wrote: Why? It's not only removed, but also disabled because it's not working... Ok i thougth it was enabled.. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
mnyb;624454 Wrote: ok i thougth it was enabled.. -- kidstypike kidstypike 1xSB3 - 1xDuet - 1xBoom - 1xRadio - 1xTouch kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Selects from this weeks checkin comments: Disable autoscan by default except for SqueezeOS (TinySC). Do not provide option to enable it for Windows, where it does not work. If we have an external scanner process then detect if it is still running in stillScanning(). If we have an external scanner process then kill it if it is still running in abortScan(). bug 17139: Hide autorescan options on Windows servers Hide autorescan option in webui if preference not defined, And from today - build 32268 Fixed bug 17139: Hide autorescan options on Windows servers Hide autorescan_stat_interval option in webui if preference not defined, -- slate Main: Duet (Audiocom) - Beresford Caiman - Carver A-500x - BW 704 Office: Duet - Technics SU-V50 - Stax SR84 Pro Server: Zotac IONITX-A, 4 GB, 1 TB WD EADS, Win7 w. 7.6 (SQLite w. High Mem) Tied together by D-Link DIR-655 + DGS-1008D slate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30502 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;624411 Wrote: Just tested... No, there is no scan run each time the server starts, as long as autorescan is disabled. I tested this by taking a 7.6 server that was pointed at a small test library, shutting down the server, editing server.prefs to point to a much larger music library, and then restarting the server. When restarted it could be seen that CPU load remained very low, so no evidence of scanning. Browsing around in the web interface still showed the old library. No, a rescan does occur, and I tested with latest 7.6 version. Are you sure your library is on an external HDD which is not connected when you start SBS ? If you start SBS, and if your music folder is local and existing, you are testing something different ... I am not talking about tweaking files etc ... Nothing but normal non geek use of SBS. Put your library on external HDD on fresh SBS install. Start SBS and scan. Stop SBS. Disconnect external HDD Start again SBS and see what happens ... -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;624412 Wrote: There are a couple different ways to change it while the server is stopped. The simplest is to edit the server.prefs file and change the entry for 'audiodir'. It looks something like this: audiodir: E:\Flac Since the ability to disable autorescan has been removed from the web settings interface on Windows systems, if you haven't already disabled it, you're going to have to make sure it's not enabled by editing server.prefs, or by completely uninstalling (including server.prefs) and reinstalling 7.6. The line in server.prefs is: autorescan: 0 Make sure it's set to zero (disabled). How can you imagine a normal non geek user editing a file before starting SBS ? I don't want to do that. What's wrong about being able to disable automatic rescan like any other user frendly software ? -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;624270 Wrote: SbS has always operated like that, though, so that's not new. If you know it's going to happen and want to avoid it, point your music library at an empty folder during the setup. I think it has always done a forced rescan at first-time run (if it sees an empty library), but it seems to me that it now does a rescan on every startup (i.e. probably since auto-detect has been added, and it needs to guarantee that the library is up to date for auto-detect changes to work correctly). Hence if a library folder isn't visible (eg. USB drive disconnected), it causes the music library to be wiped, requiring a full rescan when it is reconnected? This is sort of a geeky kludge of a suggestion, but, couldn't the db lives with the library feature of the Touch be mimicked by using symbolic links with standard SBS? Wouldn't this solve the SBS kills the db on startup if the USB drive is disconnected problem? I've already tried this once, using standard SBS on a standard server to pre-prepare a 2T external drive as a music source for tinysc. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;624257 Wrote: For once, I agree with MrSinatra! hmmm, on second thought... (j/k! ;-) andyg;624149 Wrote: We will of course still have the ability to turn it off, so don't worry about that. I was only asking if people would use it if it worked. i trust that ability will be in the GUI, not some esoteric text edit? happy to hear i can defeat it when i want to. to directly answer you, yes i will use it. as i mentioned previously, i would probably turn it off when ripping, but leave it on otherwise so it would catch my more casual edits and file moves, etc... i do keep music on a USB so i would worry it could zero the DB. also, please keep in mind this bug: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9687 i really hate it when SBS does this without my direct consent. -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.4b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 49k+ mp3/flac ::VOTE FOR 'BUG 15604' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604)!!!:: MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
i just want to take a moment to describe the way winamp scans. first, it never scans automatically, unless you tell it to. you can tell it to scan on startup, and at set interval periods. also note that you can set multiple directories to scan! if you have nothing in your winamp DB, its still pretty fast, filling the DB quickly and accurately. i almost never see it do something it shouldn't. if you already have your library scanned, its INCREDIBLY fast, and incredibly accurate, catching any/all changes/new files you may have made outside winamp, (it would already know what you did inside winamp). finally, if you have automatically remove missing files checked, thats how it deletes records in the final stage of scanning, called checking for files thats lightning fast, and then it compacts the DB. winamp has a clear media library function, but you never need to use it. its so good at what it does, you basically don't need a sbs-like clear and rescan b/c its scan for changes is that robust. no offense to logitech, but winamps scanner is incredibly fast and reliable, and its always clear to me whats going on, or if there is an issue, its something wrong with the files or OS or drm or something, not winamp. no one at winamp forums is even asking for an auto-detect rescan not because they wouldn't like it, i bet they would; but b/c it really isn't needed b/c the current scanner implementation is that good. (winamp does display folder and embedded art btw, and the new 5.61 [NOT 5.601] has DB improvements that make searches and switching views incredibly quick) so i think the way winamp works the scan is like this: if it sees a new file, enter the record/continue, if its existing, check if its been modified, if no, continue, if yes, scan for changes; and then after it scan whats existing, it looks for DB records of files that no longer exist and removes those records. this methodology is imo, 100% reliable/robust in their implementation. the scanner HAS gotten better in SBS, no doubt, Andy has moved it miles from where it was... but why is it the scanner can't be as good and reliable as winamps, and why can't a raw info data dump be made into one big table, and then after the scan all the other tables are made? that way you wouldn't need to have pre-scanning options. you could change any and all options without a rescan. no disrespect to the devs, but honestly, SBS is years behind other apps in this regard. +---+ |Filename: scanner.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11676| +---+ -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.4b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 49k+ mp3/flac ::VOTE FOR 'BUG 15604' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604)!!!:: MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;624266 Wrote: SbS has always operated like that, though, so that's not new. If you know it's going to happen and want to avoid it, point your music library at an empty folder during the setup. Are you sure automatic scan at startup has always occured ? I am quite sure that this problem started for me with 7.6 I don't remember having a problem with 7.5.x when I started SBS with HDD disconnected. Anyway your suggested workaround is not an option for me. You have to start SBS before you can change the music folder It would be simple for non geek users to have option to manually control rescans. I haven't used MediaMonkey for quite some time, but I am pretty sure I never had a problem with library scan in this product, and could control scanning. -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;624264 Wrote: Settings-Advanced-Performance-Automatically detect changes: Disabled, manually scan for new music I think that stops continuous auto-detection (or rather, it still periodically runs auto-detection, but silently ignores, rather than totally disables the processing). It doesn't stop a rescan check at startup. i.e. if no library exists at startup, it still tries to run a full rescan on the default music library location. I wish it would also disable the startup rescan. I am quite sure that any automatic feature like those ones can never be absolutely reliable. Even if it works 99.9 % of the time, I cannot see any sensible reason to not provide an option to disable it. I cannot remember having this kind of problems with other softwares like MediaMonkey. I want be able to disable automatic scan at startup for SBS (and I think it should be the same for TinySBS) Should I file a bug about that, or is it a concern for the following bug ? http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9687 -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
JJZolx;624273 Wrote: I don't think there's a startup scan when autorescan is disabled. If there is, I'm sure it's a mistake. Should be easy enough to test. Just tested... No, there is no scan run each time the server starts, as long as autorescan is disabled. I tested this by taking a 7.6 server that was pointed at a small test library, shutting down the server, editing server.prefs to point to a much larger music library, and then restarting the server. When restarted it could be seen that CPU load remained very low, so no evidence of scanning. Browsing around in the web interface still showed the old library. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
But autorescan is new, and there may be an automatic scan at startup when autorescan is enabled. However, when it's not enabled there is no scan at strtup. I just tested this. Okay, that's good to know - thanks. But I assume it still does a full scan if library is empty, irrespective of whether autorescan is enabled or not. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;624415 Wrote: But autorescan is new, and there may be an automatic scan at startup when autorescan is enabled. However, when it's not enabled there is no scan at strtup. I just tested this. Okay, that's good to know - thanks. But I assume it still does a full scan if library is empty, irrespective of whether autorescan is enabled or not. i would like to see that under user control as well. whats so hard about giving the user a simple prompt? -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.4b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 49k+ mp3/flac ::VOTE FOR 'BUG 15604' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604)!!!:: MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
MrSinatra;624421 Wrote:
i would like to see that under user control as well. whats so hard
about giving the user a simple prompt?
I think it's a design choice, as far as I've understood the reason is
that they want to make sure you have access to the music immediately
after running the setup wizard, they don't want an extra manual step
where you have to understand that you need to know how to perform a
rescan later to get access to the music.
The problem for some people (including me) is that the default settings
doesn't work, so they always have to do an additional full rescan after
they've adjusted the settings. In my case, I always need to add ; to
the Separator for Multiple Items in Tags setting. Fortunately in 7.6
; has been set to default, so in 7.6 or later I don't think I'll have
an issue with the initial rescan.
However, I agree, an option in the end of the setup wizard would be a
good idea.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;624432 Wrote: I think it's a design choice, as far as I've understood the reason is that they want to make sure you have access to the music immediately after running the setup wizard, they don't want an extra manual step where you have to understand that you need to know how to perform a rescan later to get access to the music. but thats not what i'm suggesting. at the end of the wizard, a prompt could appear that simply says Allow SBS to scan for your Music now? and the choices would be Yes or No ..and if they think people are really stupid, they can add a line of explanation saying that music will not be available on a new install until it is scanned. erland;624432 Wrote: The problem for some people (including me) is that the default settings doesn't work, so they always have to do an additional full rescan after they've adjusted the settings. In my case, I always need to add ; to the Separator for Multiple Items in Tags setting. Fortunately in 7.6 ; has been set to default, so in 7.6 or later I don't think I'll have an issue with the initial rescan. However, I agree, an option in the end of the setup wizard would be a good idea. see this bug: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9688 its the natural companion to the other bug i put earlier, 9687. i am really sick and tired of SBS trying to be so automatic and clever and think it knows better than me. please give respect to power users! give us a way out! -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.4b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 49k+ mp3/flac ::VOTE FOR 'BUG 15604' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604)!!!:: MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;624076 Wrote: Isn't this like giving up ? If the bugs can't be resolved I agree, then it has to be possible to turn off, but we should at least give Logitech the chance to fix the bugs before we ask them to implement a user unfriendly workaround. No, it's like being realistic. There have been bugs that have gone unsolved for years now, and artwork is still a major disaster unless you choose to use embedded. I've got a system that works and I don't want it screwed with and then deferred for x years' of releases because other, new, marketing-driven features are more important than letting the developers fix the underlying problems. I've got no need for auto rescan because I have a specific workflow process that suits my needs, since Squeezebox isn't the only recipient of music that I rip. So I really don't want it to scan music until I'm in the position that I'm ready for it. Regardless of whether it'll 'fix' the problems afterwards. -- paulster paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
I agree that it ought be turned on by default, but please let me turn it off if I want to. -- copperstate copperstate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34756 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
I started the following thread some time ago, but got no answer. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86697 I explained there why I would like to disable autorescan when SBS starts. I am probably not the only one to use an external HDD, easy to backup or to take with me somewhere else, for my main music folder. -- Hello I am using SBS 7.6 I configured SBS to start it manually. My library is on an external HDD. Sometimes I want to start SBS when my external HDD is not plugged. Can I disable the automatic scan at SBS startup ? Not sure, but it seems to me that this is new with 7.6 Of course when SBS starts and my HDD is not plugged, no files are found, and after automatic scan, my database is empty ... I have to scan again when I plug the HDD Is there some option I missed to disable this automatic scan ? - -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;624076 Wrote: isn't this like giving up ? If the bugs can't be resolved i agree, then it has to be possible to turn off, but we should at least give logitech the chance to fix the bugs before we ask them to implement a user unfriendly workaround. +1 It would be very nice not have to do daily rescans of my library... -- verypsb 1x Boom, 1x Classic, 1x Duet, 1x Receiver, 1x Touch Please vote for bug 16791 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16791) verypsb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17295 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
erland;624076 Wrote: Isn't this like giving up ? If the bugs can't be resolved I agree, then it has to be possible to turn off, but we should at least give Logitech the chance to fix the bugs before we ask them to implement a user unfriendly workaround. What's unfriendly about maintaining a current feature? What's unfriendly about giving users choice? I mean, nobody's asking that auto scan be defaulted to off...just that we maintain the ability to disable it. For years, rescan (scan for new) failed to detect tagging changes in embedded cuesheets. Screw something up and the only way you could get rid of the spurious records was by a complete wipe and scan. This may still be the case. I gave up hoping that embedded cuesheets would be fully supported years ago. Andy did a lot of work to raise this format to 1st class citizen status in 7.6 and I'm happier with SBS 7.6 now than I've been with any previous version. But I still rip, tag and check twice, three times, four times before I run a scan for new. There are other instances where bugs have been documented, again for years, with fully functioning patches submitted by users. Yet the patches are never applied, the bugs never addressed and no explanation is forthcoming from the developers. So please forgive us if we're wary of the idea of giving Logitech the chance to fix the bugs. Many of us are scared that, while Logitech may fix bugs that pertain to the majority of users, bugs that affect minority users have the potential to leave us high and dry for months (or years) at a time. This fear has been born out of personal experience. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
On Apr 8, 2011, at 10:44 AM, gharris999 wrote: erland;624076 Wrote: Isn't this like giving up ? If the bugs can't be resolved I agree, then it has to be possible to turn off, but we should at least give Logitech the chance to fix the bugs before we ask them to implement a user unfriendly workaround. What's unfriendly about maintaining a current feature? What's unfriendly about giving users choice? I mean, nobody's asking that auto scan be defaulted to off...just that we maintain the ability to disable it. We will of course still have the ability to turn it off, so don't worry about that. I was only asking if people would use it if it worked. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
andyg;624149 Wrote: We will of course still have the ability to turn it off, so don't worry about that. I was only asking if people would use it if it worked.If that's the case, then, yes, of course I'll try using it. Thanks. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
andyg;624149 Wrote: We will of course still have the ability to turn it off, so don't worry about that. I was only asking if people would use it if it worked. Is it possible to disable it now in 7.6 ? I don't find the option. When I start SBS 7.6, and when my usb HDD is not connected to the laptop, SBS erases missing files, that means it erases the library ... Note that the problem also occurs if you access the music directory through a network which may be temporarily unavailable. With previous versions of SBS, I used to erase all library and rescan from scratch when I add new files. Note that I would also like to be able to generate the library on the usb HDD, so it could be used as it is with TinySBS. And of course have an option to prevent TinySBS to rescan files if I know that the library is fine. That would be great to solve the problem of TinySBS and big libraries -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
nicolas75;624169 Wrote: Is it possible to disable it now in 7.6 ? I don't find the option. Settings-Advanced-Performance-Automatically detect changes: Disabled, manually scan for new music -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
gharris999;624172 Wrote: Settings-Advanced-Performance-Automatically detect changes: Disabled, manually scan for new music Thanks, but it doesn't work. I just tried with Version : 7.6.0 - r32248 @ Fri Apr 8 02:07:46 PDT 2011 The option is already the one which is set (is it the default value ?) Then I stop SBS, disconnect my usb HDD, and start again SBS. The first thing which happens is that the scanner suppress deleted files, which means, all files ... I can stop manually the scan, but a few files are already erased from the database ... (and some time later, anyway, I see 0 files in the database) -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
andyg;624149 Wrote:
We will of course still have the ability to turn it off, so don't worry
about that. I was only asking if people would use it if it worked.
I'd definitely use it, as a user I have no need to scan things, I just
want to access my music.
Ideally I'd just like to insert the music CD or copy the purchased MP3
file to a directory and let the system handle everything else. Yes, I
know this is a dream and it's hard/impossible to reach since there
isn't a online source good enough for automatic tagging, but I'm just
trying to say that I'd like as few manual steps as possible.
I'm already using:
- Ripping software to rip the CD (EAC or Vortexbox ripper)
- Retrieve album art (usually using Firefox and Google)
- Manual tagging software to adjust the tags (foobar or mp3tag or
puddletag)
- Apply replay gain tags
- Automatic tagging software (musicbrainz picard to add musicbrainz
id)
- Tell SBS to scan the music
So if we at least could make the last step in this process happen
automatically and just work I would be very happy.
However, as already mentioned, it's very important that it handles
update and deletes correctly and don't leave trash data in the database
because it detects the file before I've finished adjusting all tags.
It's also very important that it can handle the scenario where it can't
access the drive correctly so it doesn't start to remove the complete
database just because the USB drive has been disconnected or the NAS
has been rebooted.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
For once, I agree with MrSinatra! I generally dislike auto-detect changes in apps; if every app I have running did it, my HD would be doing nothing but churn all the time. I prefer to scan when I know I'm not using the machine for anything else. I have an ordered sequence for ripping CDs. I scan to detect set of new albums after I have ripped, tagged, applied replaygain, added artwork, analysed in MusicIP, etc. If it auto-detected changes whilst doing those activities, it's likely artwork would be missed (long-standing SBS bugs with detecting artwork file changes); it might not detect MusicIP mixable status, or at least could end up scanning/requesting MusicIP several times until the status is present. There's loads of things that could end up in bad states/non-deteministic results based on order of scanning files. eg. if it only sees a few files for a new album, it might consider it not a compilation album, and then as more files are detected and the scanner is re-run, the album may now be a compilation. At best, its less efficient. It could result in incorrect music library content though. If a new album is scanned all in one pass, it's perhaps more likely to work cleanly. It's certainly more efficient to scan in one go, rather than frequently detecting changes and rescanning continuously in the background. I'm not sure how that works with SQLite anyway (scanner locks DB - needs to be unlocked to allow scan + playback?). Auto-scan once at startup is bad enough. On the other hand, MusicIP GUI auto-scan works pretty well. But then again, MusicIP server doesn't auto-scan (manual rescan via webUI only). ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Assuming all the bugs got worked out and things just worked no matter how many times you retagged those new files, would you still turn it off? Yes. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
I still don't understand why. It feels like you guys are assuming that removals and updates don't work correctly in auto rescan. Manual scans for new/changed files don't work correctly; making lots of small scans is more likely to be even less reliable. Assuming this scenario just works and assuming it won't use up too much resources, I can't see why it needs to be possible to turn off. It will use more resources, and perhaps use them when you don't want it to. We need to start think about normal users and not just us geeks I don't think there's anything at all geeky about having a manual library update. e.g. the biggest media app in the world, iTunes, doesn't have any auto detect at all, let alone optional. I suppose Apple want to encourage purchases via iTunes music store, or expect all ripping through their app. But it still provides a manual way for add new music into the iTunes library. More appropriate may be an indicator to remind that the music library may be out of date and requires a rescan when convenient. A real-world comparison: If there were a future car that could drive me to work automatically, I wouldn't like it to frequently divert every 5 miles to refuel automatically, because I'd prefer it to stop when I think it's the best time to (when I'm not running late, when the fuel guage is getting low, dependent on traffic/weather conditions, many reasons). But it is appropriate for a car to indicate when a fuel stop will be needed. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Settings-Advanced-Performance-Automatically detect changes: Disabled, manually scan for new music I think that stops continuous auto-detection (or rather, it still periodically runs auto-detection, but silently ignores, rather than totally disables the processing). It doesn't stop a rescan check at startup. i.e. if no library exists at startup, it still tries to run a full rescan on the default music library location. I wish it would also disable the startup rescan. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;624264 Wrote: It doesn't stop a rescan check at startup. i.e. if no library exists at startup, it still tries to run a full rescan on the default music library location. I wish it would also disable the startup rescan. SbS has always operated like that, though, so that's not new. If you know it's going to happen and want to avoid it, point your music library at an empty folder during the setup. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Also, what happens if SBS is not running and there are changes to the music library? At startup it has to run a scan for new/changed files. That means an SBS server stop/restart (eg. to install/update a plugin) takes a lot longer. What happens if there are changes whilst it is running the scanner? Do these get detected and the scanner auto-restarts as soon as it has finished, or does it not detect changes whilst it is scanning? How far does auto-detection/updating go? SBS auto-detects updates to player firmware, plugins, addons, applets, but generally doesn't auto-install and restart, because that can be inconvenient. I see music library rescanning in the same boat. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
SbS has always operated like that, though, so that's not new. If you know it's going to happen and want to avoid it, point your music library at an empty folder during the setup. I think it has always done a forced rescan at first-time run (if it sees an empty library), but it seems to me that it now does a rescan on every startup (i.e. probably since auto-detect has been added, and it needs to guarantee that the library is up to date for auto-detect changes to work correctly). Hence if a library folder isn't visible (eg. USB drive disconnected), it causes the music library to be wiped, requiring a full rescan when it is reconnected? ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;624267 Wrote: Also, what happens if SBS is not running and there are changes to the music library? At startup it has to run a scan for new/changed files. That means an SBS server stop/restart (eg. to install/update a plugin) takes a lot longer. Yeah, that was a fatal mistake with the Touch's TinySC. I'll bet more people have given up on the server for that single reason than any other. But there's a difference... The Touch can barely get out of its own way, so is unusable during the startup scan. Most real servers should handle the startup new changed scan with no issues and be usable while it's being run. I don't think it should affect the startup time much, if at all. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Philip Meyer;624270 Wrote: I think it has always done a forced rescan at first-time run (if it sees an empty library), but it seems to me that it now does a rescan on every startup (i.e. probably since auto-detect has been added, and it needs to guarantee that the library is up to date for auto-detect changes to work correctly). Hence if a library folder isn't visible (eg. USB drive disconnected), it causes the music library to be wiped, requiring a full rescan when it is reconnected? No, the thing that triggers running of the initial scan is lack of a library database. The library can be empty. I don't think there's a startup scan when autorescan is disabled. If there is, I'm sure it's a mistake. Should be easy enough to test. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Instead or arguing if we are going to use auto rescan or not, maybe we
should post our current ripping processes when introducing new music to
our library with current 7.5 SBS functionality. That way Logitech can do
an analysis and see what's needed, maybe auto scan would work but maybe
they also need to do other things to make it usable.
My typical process looks like this (the exact order of the steps varies
from time to time):
1. RIP to FLAC using EAC on a Windows laptop to the local disk or
recently I've been ripping using Vortexbox on a laptop directly to the
NAS
2. Copy the files to the NAS where I have my SBS music
3. Open the files in foobar or mp3tag and adjust GENRE tags, set
COMPILATION if it's a compilation
4. Open the files in Musicbrainz picard and add musicbrainz id's
5. Apply replay gain tags using foobar or the command line tool which
have been seen on these forum.
6. Find some album art using Google and save it as a cover.jpg file
7. Open Mp3Tag and embed the album art into the FLAC files
8. Tell SBS to do a full rescan, I never do an new/changed rescan today
because I don't trust it, I've had too many issues where it has left
some old data in the database which isn't part of the tags any more. In
the fairly small library I have it's ok to do a full rescan, usually
takes less than 15 minutes.
As you can see, the process above isn't really optimized and it's quite
unstructured, this is intentional since I often do the step in different
orders. It's hard to remember the exact order when you more or less have
to use different programs for each steps. Another thing to note is that
the files are placed at the final location fairly early in the process
(step 1 or 2) and it happens quite a lot afterwards, so it's extremely
important that the auto scan functionality is able to handle these
changes correctly.
I've been planning to start using puddletag which I think should solve
most of the things but I haven't gotten much new locally stored music
since I got my Spotify Premium account.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
that other issue with unmounted drives etc, ss/sc/sbs has afiak always behaved like that ? Is it really related to autoscan ? Afiak the music library must be mounted and avaible to the OS before sbs is started, otherwise sbs seems to drop the dB how this is done I've got no idea. What happens if your network drive is mounted a bit further down in the file structure is sbs aware of that to or do you have to try play those files first and then sbs gets aware and throw out the dB. Is this realy a correct behaviur ? You be 100% of never having stale content in the dB but iritate a lot of users with libraies spread out on networked drives, why deleting the dB just so without any prompt to the user ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
On Apr 7, 2011, at 4:41 PM, JJZolx wrote: Finally, it looks like autorescan is being scrapped from Windows, and is going to be disabled by default on other OSs. r23239 (7.6 trunk) r32243 (merge to 7.6 onebrowser): Disable autoscan by default except for SqueezeOS (TinySC). Do not provide option to enable it for Windows, where it does not work. But in the latest 7.6 onebrowser rev I still see the option in the web UI settings while running on Windows. Is the option supposed to be completely removed from the web UI or just ignored? And some questions about '*Network share detection interval*'. I've never completely understood how this works. The 'i' info is pretty ambiguous: To detect changes on remote network shares or on some operating systems with no native change detection support, the files must be polled for changes at regular intervals. Select the interval to use for this check, in minutes. The default value is 10 minutes. Is this only in effect when autorescan is enabled, or is it independent of that setting? Do the Windows changes for autorescan affect this? Should this setting also be hidden? Yeah it should also be hidden. It is a timer for the brute-force type of auto-rescan where you have to stat() every file on a network drive to look for changes. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
andyg;624007 Wrote: Yeah it should also be hidden. It is a timer for the brute-force type of auto-rescan where you have to stat() every file on a network drive to look for changes. Still not clear. Is it only used when autorescan is enabled? If so, you might think of adding that to the help. And on OSs that do support inotify, does that mean that the autorescanning of local files and the brute force scanning of network drives may both be enabled and that both could occur at the same time? If so, would a 0 entry or similar disable the brute force scanning while leaving the local autorescanning enabled? -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Also, if the following from the help information: or on some operating systems with no native change detection support only refers to Windows, where autorescan is now disabled, the phrase should be removed. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
BTW just so you guys know, auto-rescan will make a reappearance in LMS, where it's being integrated as part of a C library and should be much better. -- andyg andyg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
as long as i can turn it off, np. -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.4b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 49k+ mp3/flac ::VOTE FOR 'BUG 15604' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604)!!!:: MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
MrSinatra;624020 Wrote:
as long as i can turn it off, np.
Why do you want to turn it off ?
To me it feels like it should be always active as long as the
implementation doesn't make an old computer unusable. Automatic rescan
means that I don't have to care, I just put the music files in the
right directory tree and they will appear in SBS/LMS automatically
after a short delay.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
i already explained this to Andy but there def needs to be the option to turn it off b/c a LOT of people, like myself, AND APPS rip directly into a sub-directory of their root music folder. that is how i do it, please don't ask me to change how i do it just b/c LMS is getting around to adding this feature. (the reason i do it that way, is because the music is then available to me at my next rescan, even if i haven't done all the detailed extra tagging and art checks and so on, prior to me placing it in its final resting place) -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.4b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 49k+ mp3/flac ::VOTE FOR 'BUG 15604' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604)!!!:: MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
On Apr 7, 2011, at 6:34 PM, MrSinatra wrote: i already explained this to Andy but there def needs to be the option to turn it off b/c a LOT of people, like myself, AND APPS rip directly into a sub-directory of their root music folder. that is how i do it, please don't ask me to change how i do it just b/c LMS is getting around to adding this feature. (the reason i do it that way, is because the music is then available to me at my next rescan, even if i haven't done all the detailed extra tagging and art checks and so on, prior to me placing it in its final resting place) Assuming all the bugs got worked out and things just worked no matter how many times you retagged those new files, would you still turn it off? ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
andyg;624032 Wrote: Assuming all the bugs got worked out and things just worked no matter how many times you retagged those new files, would you still turn it off? That's a huge assumption, particularly on Windows. I'll believe it when I see it. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
andyg;624032 Wrote: On Apr 7, 2011, at 6:34 PM, MrSinatra wrote: i already explained this to Andy but there def needs to be the option to turn it off b/c a LOT of people, like myself, AND APPS rip directly into a sub-directory of their root music folder. that is how i do it, please don't ask me to change how i do it just b/c LMS is getting around to adding this feature. (the reason i do it that way, is because the music is then available to me at my next rescan, even if i haven't done all the detailed extra tagging and art checks and so on, prior to me placing it in its final resting place) Assuming all the bugs got worked out and things just worked no matter how many times you retagged those new files, would you still turn it off? i suppose that all depends. consider the process: when i rip with EAC, it first creates a wav, then two temp files, [one wav, one mp3], then finally a mp3. what happens in that scenario? does LMS keep rescanning the files as they are created and grow in size and change? how much CPU is it grabbing to do that while i try to rip and encode? but even besides all that, unless its time sensitive (which sometimes it is), i am prone to not want anything scanned until i do have it tagged up and i'm ready for it to be scanned. the way i envision this, is having the option on MOST of the time, but off when i rip. that way my 'permanent library' tag edits, file moves, etc are updated when i make them, but i can still have LMS not interfere or scan when i don't want it to (eg. when ripping), esp for music i don't want entered prematurely into the library. this becomes all the more crucial btw, if you guys ever implement that proposed forever record where the DB tracks everything it ever scanned and uniquely IDs them. -- MrSinatra www.lion-radio.org using: sb2 sbc (my home) / sbrec ipeng (parents' home) - sbs 7.5.4b - win xp pro sp3 ie8 - p4(ht) 3.2ghz, 2gig ram - 1tb wd usb2 raid1 - d-link dir-655 - 49k+ mp3/flac ::VOTE FOR 'BUG 15604' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15604)!!!:: MrSinatra's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
If automatic... one should have the option to restrict the scan to certain folder(s). When WMP is not restricted it can pick up duplicates tracks of my library from other folders where I store sub-libraries in different formats that I want to hide from WMP. -- tamanaco tamanaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4620 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
I'd not want the auto-scan at all either. I want to manually QA all filenames and tags before SBS ever sees them. -- paulster paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
andyg;624032 Wrote: On Apr 7, 2011, at 6:34 PM, MrSinatra wrote: i already explained this to Andy but there def needs to be the option to turn it off b/c a LOT of people, like myself, AND APPS rip directly into a sub-directory of their root music folder. that is how i do it, please don't ask me to change how i do it just b/c LMS is getting around to adding this feature. (the reason i do it that way, is because the music is then available to me at my next rescan, even if i haven't done all the detailed extra tagging and art checks and so on, prior to me placing it in its final resting place) Assuming all the bugs got worked out and things just worked no matter how many times you retagged those new files, would you still turn it off? YES!! When I'm ripping a bunch of new CDs, I really, really, really want to control when they get scanned into the DB. Please, please, please keep this optional! -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
-- paulster paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Must be possible to turn off, sbs is very very bad at removing stale content and badly taggad stuff with the Scan for new and changed one can expect to get 3 fake albums per real one and orter anakronism if sbs autoscans halfway trough your tagging and adding music process, its going to be buggy for years if not forever. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86894 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Autorescan on Windows
Mnyb;624074 Wrote:
Must be possible to turn off, sbs is very very bad at removing stale
content and badly taggad stuff with the Scan for new and changed one
can expect to get 3 fake albums per real one and orter anakronism if
sbs autoscans halfway trough your tagging and adding music process, its
going to be buggy for years if not forever.
Isn't this like giving up ?
If the bugs can't be resolved I agree, then it has to be possible to
turn off, but we should at least give Logitech the chance to fix the
bugs before we ask them to implement a user unfriendly workaround.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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