Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Personally I'd rather have smart people being brought into this country than them being sent elsewhere. I believe having intelligent people here it is a good long-term strategy for making this country better; no matter where they were born. I understand that many of the criticisms of such programs, such as H1B Visa, is that companies are bringing in foreigners to jobs that native USA-residents are qualified to do; and the workers brought in are treated as indenture servants. I do not know enough about said programs to tell whether that is a valid concern of a bunch of FUD. Qasim Rasheed wrote: > Scott, > > I know your comments weren't directed towards anyone in particular and I > have also seen the misuse of the program myself. However the thing that > bothers me that people try to put all the blame on this program. I know, I > came to this country legally, paid all my taxes for 7+ years and earned my > green card. I hope we all appreciate the usefulness of real skills coming to > this country (which I am now proud to call my second home). > > Thanks > > Qasim > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Scott Stewart > wrote: > > >> There's nothing wrong with the program, if as you said it's used >> appropriately. But it is a program that needs to be tightened up by the new >> administration so that there is less chance for abuse. >> >> Unfortunately it's a program that I've personally been burned by a couple >> of >> times. >> >> Qasim, I hope you understand that my comments don't reflect on you >> personally. >> >> -- >> Scott Stewart >> ColdFusion Developer >> 4405 Oakshyre Way >> Raleigh, NC 27616 >> (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:qasim.li...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM >> To: cf-jobs-talk >> Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical >> Recruiting.. >> >> >> What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country >> based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. >> >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot wrote: >> >> >>> Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good >>> and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you >>> trust. Every programmer must do their own research. >>> >>> Ravi. >>> >>> >>> Scott Stewart wrote: >>> I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't >> want >> >>> to >>> be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient >> of >> the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never >> panned >> out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across >>> the >>> country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", >>> the >>> answer is usually no, or "what?". My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation >>> company >>> to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is >>> usually >>> no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the >>> job >>> is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to >>> take a >>> financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have >> had >> very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up >> people >> who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than >> just >> >>> an >>> email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to >>> bring >>> in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 >>> >> >> >> > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4211 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
I know the people I work for appreciate those real skills coming to this country. They like the fact they can pay 50% or less for the skills v. what local people want with the same skills. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Qasim Rasheed wrote: > > Scott, > > I know your comments weren't directed towards anyone in particular and I > have also seen the misuse of the program myself. However the thing that > bothers me that people try to put all the blame on this program. I know, I > came to this country legally, paid all my taxes for 7+ years and earned my > green card. I hope we all appreciate the usefulness of real skills coming > to > this country (which I am now proud to call my second home). > > Thanks > > Qasim > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Scott Stewart >wrote: > > > > > There's nothing wrong with the program, if as you said it's used > > appropriately. But it is a program that needs to be tightened up by the > new > > administration so that there is less chance for abuse. > > > > Unfortunately it's a program that I've personally been burned by a couple > > of > > times. > > > > Qasim, I hope you understand that my comments don't reflect on you > > personally. > > > > -- > > Scott Stewart > > ColdFusion Developer > > 4405 Oakshyre Way > > Raleigh, NC 27616 > > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:qasim.li...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM > > To: cf-jobs-talk > > Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into > Technical > > Recruiting.. > > > > > > What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country > > based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot > wrote: > > > > > > > > Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are > good > > > and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you > > > trust. Every programmer must do their own research. > > > > > > Ravi. > > > > > > > > > Scott Stewart wrote: > > > > I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't > > want > > > to > > > > be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the > recipient > > of > > > > the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never > > panned > > > > out. > > > > > > > > Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way > across > > > the > > > > country and my first response is "are they considering > telecommuters", > > > the > > > > answer is usually no, or "what?". > > > > > > > > My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation > > > company > > > > to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is > > > usually > > > > no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever > the > > > job > > > > is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to > > > take a > > > > financial loss to work for their client. > > > > > > > > On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have > > had > > > > very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who > has > > > > become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up > > people > > > > who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than > > just > > > an > > > > email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, > to > > > bring > > > > in H1B Visas candidates. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Scott Stewart > > > > ColdFusion Developer > > > > 4405 Oakshyre Way > > > > Raleigh, NC 27616 > > > > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4210 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Scott, I know your comments weren't directed towards anyone in particular and I have also seen the misuse of the program myself. However the thing that bothers me that people try to put all the blame on this program. I know, I came to this country legally, paid all my taxes for 7+ years and earned my green card. I hope we all appreciate the usefulness of real skills coming to this country (which I am now proud to call my second home). Thanks Qasim On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Scott Stewart wrote: > > There's nothing wrong with the program, if as you said it's used > appropriately. But it is a program that needs to be tightened up by the new > administration so that there is less chance for abuse. > > Unfortunately it's a program that I've personally been burned by a couple > of > times. > > Qasim, I hope you understand that my comments don't reflect on you > personally. > > -- > Scott Stewart > ColdFusion Developer > 4405 Oakshyre Way > Raleigh, NC 27616 > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > > -Original Message- > From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:qasim.li...@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM > To: cf-jobs-talk > Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical > Recruiting.. > > > What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country > based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot wrote: > > > > > Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good > > and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you > > trust. Every programmer must do their own research. > > > > Ravi. > > > > > > Scott Stewart wrote: > > > I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't > want > > to > > > be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient > of > > > the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never > panned > > > out. > > > > > > Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across > > the > > > country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", > > the > > > answer is usually no, or "what?". > > > > > > My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation > > company > > > to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is > > usually > > > no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the > > job > > > is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to > > take a > > > financial loss to work for their client. > > > > > > On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have > had > > > very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has > > > become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up > people > > > who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than > just > > an > > > email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to > > bring > > > in H1B Visas candidates. > > > > > > -- > > > Scott Stewart > > > ColdFusion Developer > > > 4405 Oakshyre Way > > > Raleigh, NC 27616 > > > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > > > > > > > > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4209 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Scott, I have always been a Green Card holder so I am not familiar with other visas. I can't give you a formed opinion on this onesorry Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: Ravi, I mentioned it because the way that I understand the program to work is that you have to provide proof to the State Department that you attempted to hire a citizen for the position. All that's required is a stack of resumes, and someone to say that they weren't right for the job. I feel like many of the fishnet recruiters are collecting resumes for the sole purpose of providing that proof. IE: there is no intent to actually attempt to hire a citizen for the position. I could be wrong about how the program works, but this is how it was explained to me a few years ago. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4208 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Scott, I have always been a Green Card holder so I am not familiar with other visas. I can't give you a formed opinion on this onesorry Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: > Ravi, > > I mentioned it because the way that I understand the program to work is that > you have to provide proof to the State Department that you attempted to hire > a citizen for the position. All that's required is a stack of resumes, and > someone to say that they weren't right for the job. > > I feel like many of the fishnet recruiters are collecting resumes for the > sole purpose of providing that proof. IE: there is no intent to actually > attempt to hire a citizen for the position. > > I could be wrong about how the program works, but this is how it was > explained to me a few years ago. > > -- > Scott Stewart > ColdFusion Developer > 4405 Oakshyre Way > Raleigh, NC 27616 > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > > -Original Message- > From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:42 PM > To: cf-jobs-talk > Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical > Recruiting.. > > > Qasim, > > There is no problem with H1B Visas. I have no clue why Scott > mentioned it. Who cares... > > Ravi. > > > > > Qasim Rasheed wrote: > >> What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country >> based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. >> >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot wrote: >> >> >> >>> Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good >>> and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you >>> trust. Every programmer must do their own research. >>> >>> Ravi. >>> >>> >>> Scott Stewart wrote: >>> >>> I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want >>> to >>> >>> be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient > of > the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across >>> the >>> >>> country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", >>> the >>> >>> answer is usually no, or "what?". My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation >>> company >>> >>> to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is >>> usually >>> >>> no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the >>> job >>> >>> is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to >>> take a >>> >>> financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up > people > who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than > just > >>> an >>> >>> email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to >>> bring >>> >>> in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 >>> >>> >> > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4207 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Ravi, I mentioned it because the way that I understand the program to work is that you have to provide proof to the State Department that you attempted to hire a citizen for the position. All that's required is a stack of resumes, and someone to say that they weren't right for the job. I feel like many of the fishnet recruiters are collecting resumes for the sole purpose of providing that proof. IE: there is no intent to actually attempt to hire a citizen for the position. I could be wrong about how the program works, but this is how it was explained to me a few years ago. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:42 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Qasim, There is no problem with H1B Visas. I have no clue why Scott mentioned it. Who cares... Ravi. Qasim Rasheed wrote: > What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country > based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot wrote: > > >> Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good >> and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you >> trust. Every programmer must do their own research. >> >> Ravi. >> >> >> Scott Stewart wrote: >> >>> I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want >>> >> to >> >>> be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of >>> the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned >>> out. >>> >>> Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across >>> >> the >> >>> country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", >>> >> the >> >>> answer is usually no, or "what?". >>> >>> My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation >>> >> company >> >>> to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is >>> >> usually >> >>> no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the >>> >> job >> >>> is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to >>> >> take a >> >>> financial loss to work for their client. >>> >>> On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had >>> very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has >>> become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people >>> who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just >>> >> an >> >>> email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to >>> >> bring >> >>> in H1B Visas candidates. >>> >>> -- >>> Scott Stewart >>> ColdFusion Developer >>> 4405 Oakshyre Way >>> Raleigh, NC 27616 >>> (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 >>> >>> >> > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4206 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
There's nothing wrong with the program, if as you said it's used appropriately. But it is a program that needs to be tightened up by the new administration so that there is less chance for abuse. Unfortunately it's a program that I've personally been burned by a couple of times. Qasim, I hope you understand that my comments don't reflect on you personally. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: Qasim Rasheed [mailto:qasim.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:32 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot wrote: > > Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good > and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you > trust. Every programmer must do their own research. > > Ravi. > > > Scott Stewart wrote: > > I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want > to > > be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of > > the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned > > out. > > > > Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across > the > > country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", > the > > answer is usually no, or "what?". > > > > My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation > company > > to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is > usually > > no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the > job > > is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to > take a > > financial loss to work for their client. > > > > On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had > > very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has > > become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people > > who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just > an > > email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to > bring > > in H1B Visas candidates. > > > > -- > > Scott Stewart > > ColdFusion Developer > > 4405 Oakshyre Way > > Raleigh, NC 27616 > > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4204 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Qasim, There is no problem with H1B Visas. I have no clue why Scott mentioned it. Who cares... Ravi. Qasim Rasheed wrote: > What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country > based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot wrote: > > >> Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good >> and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you >> trust. Every programmer must do their own research. >> >> Ravi. >> >> >> Scott Stewart wrote: >> >>> I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want >>> >> to >> >>> be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of >>> the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned >>> out. >>> >>> Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across >>> >> the >> >>> country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", >>> >> the >> >>> answer is usually no, or "what?". >>> >>> My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation >>> >> company >> >>> to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is >>> >> usually >> >>> no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the >>> >> job >> >>> is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to >>> >> take a >> >>> financial loss to work for their client. >>> >>> On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had >>> very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has >>> become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people >>> who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just >>> >> an >> >>> email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to >>> >> bring >> >>> in H1B Visas candidates. >>> >>> -- >>> Scott Stewart >>> ColdFusion Developer >>> 4405 Oakshyre Way >>> Raleigh, NC 27616 >>> (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 >>> >>> >> > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4205 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
What's wrong with H1B visa if used appropriately. I came to this country based on that facility and have been able to become a permanent citizen. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Ravi Gehlot wrote: > > Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good > and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you > trust. Every programmer must do their own research. > > Ravi. > > > Scott Stewart wrote: > > I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want > to > > be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of > > the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned > > out. > > > > Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across > the > > country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", > the > > answer is usually no, or "what?". > > > > My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation > company > > to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is > usually > > no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the > job > > is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to > take a > > financial loss to work for their client. > > > > On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had > > very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has > > become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people > > who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just > an > > email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to > bring > > in H1B Visas candidates. > > > > -- > > Scott Stewart > > ColdFusion Developer > > 4405 Oakshyre Way > > Raleigh, NC 27616 > > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4203 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Correct. There are good recruiters as there are bad ones. There are good and bad everywhere. So it is important to work with someone that you trust. Every programmer must do their own research. Ravi. Scott Stewart wrote: > I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to > be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of > the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned > out. > > Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the > country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", the > answer is usually no, or "what?". > > My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation company > to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is usually > no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job > is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a > financial loss to work for their client. > > On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had > very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has > become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people > who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an > email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring > in H1B Visas candidates. > > -- > Scott Stewart > ColdFusion Developer > 4405 Oakshyre Way > Raleigh, NC 27616 > (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4202 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
I've worked with both, if I do go down this road I know who I don't want to be and that the guy who recruits by attrition. I've been the recipient of the fishing email and phone calls dozens of times, and it's never panned out. Someone with horribly broken English calls about a job half way across the country and my first response is "are they considering telecommuters", the answer is usually no, or "what?". My next question is "is your client willing to contract a relocation company to move myself and my wife and buy our house". The answer again is usually no, and then they ask if I'm willing to rent an apartment wherever the job is, my answer is always no, because by this point, their asking me to take a financial loss to work for their client. On the other hand there are a handful of recruiters with whom I have had very very successful relationships with, and one in particular who has become a pretty good friend.. why, because they're honest stand up people who look at prospective employment candidates as something more than just an email address or a means to fulfill US State Department guidelines, to bring in H1B Visas candidates. -- Scott Stewart ColdFusion Developer 4405 Oakshyre Way Raleigh, NC 27616 (h) 919.874.6229 (c) 703.220.2835 -Original Message- From: William Seiter [mailto:will...@seiter.com] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 12:50 PM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Some technical recruiters work with the concepts of a fisherman's net. They will catch anyone and everyone for a position, good fit or not. Whenever a recruiter contacts me I take control of the conversation, as I have gotten tired of driving all the way down to 'their' office to fill out their paperwork, just to find out that the job they called me about was not suited for me or my experience levels. Just one story of why it pays to take control of the conversation. I was called by a recruiter who was asking me about my skills for a position she had to fill. After about 15 minutes of talking she said she saw that I had expert skills in Java. I asked her where she saw this and she told me the name of a popular resume site. I immediately pulled up my resume there and looked at it to verify that I was not misrepresenting myself and saw that I made no mention of Java at all in my resume. I am sure many of you have dealt with this yourselves. I told her that I did not have expert skills in Java, and asked her if it was pertinent to the job position. She said it was in the list of required skills and she said that she saw it, then she read to me the line I wrote in that resume describing my Javascript skills. I told her that Javascript is a completely different language from Java. To her credit, she did ask me to explain to her the differences. I did. At least she, hopefully, won't make the same mistake in a future recruitment, but if she hadn't been very conversational, I would have wasted my time going to the interview. I guess I am saying this to you, if you choose to join the ranks of the recruiter, make sure you understand what you are looking for. And if, like so many HR departments do, the requirements look like 'programmer soup' as opposed to a specific requirement, ask the HR department to speak directly to the supervisor who needs the employee. The more knowledgeable of the position you are, the better you present yourself. Looking for a web programmer for a specific company who has to have 8 years of experience in: CF, ASP, .NET, C#, PERL, PHP, C++, JAVA, JavaScript, HTML, PHOTOSHOP, et al Is the same as saying you don't know what you are looking for, unless the actual job description describes why all of the same kinds of programming languages. -- William E. Seiter Need to have your mortgage modified? I charge no fees until I am successful, then I charge almost half the rate you would find elsewhere. Professional. Dedicated. Effective. The Easy 24/7 way to get started: http://www.goldengrove.net/ or you can call: (626) 593 - 5501 -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:02 AM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that the
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Thanks for sharing Scott. Ravi. Scott Brady wrote: > Sure. It's Modis (www.modis.com). I don't know if the whole company > does what the Denver office does, so it's possible not all Modis offices > are good. > > (Our contact provides yummy treats when a new employee starts, so it's > possible I'm just easily-swayed by goodies.) > > Scott > > Ravi Gehlot wrote: > >> Hello Scott, >> >> Can you share with us who this good recruiting company is so maybe >> people from the list may use them in the future? >> >> Thanks, >> Ravi. >> > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4200 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Sure. It's Modis (www.modis.com). I don't know if the whole company does what the Denver office does, so it's possible not all Modis offices are good. (Our contact provides yummy treats when a new employee starts, so it's possible I'm just easily-swayed by goodies.) Scott Ravi Gehlot wrote: > Hello Scott, > > Can you share with us who this good recruiting company is so maybe > people from the list may use them in the future? > > Thanks, > Ravi. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4199 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
The best way to find a job is to go directly to the company in need of a programmer. I know of a very few programmers who are able to find jobs without the help of a recruiter. I spoke to one of these lucky programmers and that person told me that he started building his peers when he was still in school. He was a senior at his university in California and he had a job sponsored by the school. He made friends with his computer science teachers and university staff. So when he needs a job he goes back to his peers. But attention, it began at school. Most students do not take school seriously and when they go out on their own to find jobs..BOOM...a slap in the face. So this is my advise to you...if you are an undergraduate at your university. Build your network there. There are good smart people there that can help you. The University can co-op a job for you if you have good grades. Explore with teachers also...most of those teachers know people who work in high-end companies and they can hook you up if you are a hard working student. But you have to show discipline and you have to show that you are interested. Nobody is going to look at you if you do not go after people unless you are a genius and everybody knows you. Another way to find jobs without the help of recruiters is to participate in meetings. At times there is always some programmer from some company attending the meetings and he is also there looking for extra help. I have seen people refer each other from meetings. You can attend your local ColdFusion meeting or you can attend a local business meeting. Whatever it is. If you do not market yourself then you will not be known. People are not going to knock your door and say: "Come work for us". I would to emphasize.recruiters are NOT bad peers. You just gotta know how to work with them. I guess at the end of the day if you can pay your bills with that pay check then who cares how you got the job. Also, try to hear from recruiters on their experience. I am sure there is always 2 sides to a coin. Good Luck, Ravi. Ravi Gehlot wrote: > Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. > Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to > get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is > just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order > to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for > the right position. > > That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of > these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes > afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just > coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they have > been trying to then they also vanish without a trace (this does not > apply to all recruiters). They don't even send you an e-mail to say > go look for a new opportunity. I mean, it only takes 5 seconds > right? I took 1 week of my time to talk to you and you do not have 5 > seconds to say..."Hey, it did not work but maybe next time?" > > AlsoI had one recruiter call me every 2 weeks to have me rely > information about the company hiring procedures. He wanted to know if > anyone was being hired directly by the company instead of his recruiting > company. SoI try not to be on either side..I am neutral. But > man...you come to me to ask me questions but when I go to you to ask you > questions you just ignore me? What kind of recruiter-to-programmer > relationship is that? > > This is not an attack on recruiters. My experience with recruiting > companies is OK. Will I work with recruiters in the future. YES. > Everybody is entitled to making mistakes right? I am sure they also have > a lot to tell about programmers too. > > This is just my $0.02 cents, > Ravi. > > > Jerry Johnson wrote: > >> I was (mostly) kidding. >> >> But many programmers and tech types do not realize how _hard_ placement folk >> work to get someone into a job. >> >> It seems like free money when you see how much they added to your >> contracting rate, or how much you hear they get paid per permanent >> placement, but believe it or not it is a difficult job. >> >> You _need_ to divorce personal feelings for each client from the equation. >> It is easy to get paralyzed with "I _need_ a job this week, or I lose my >> house (my children are sick, my mother-in-law lives with us, etc)", but you >> cannot let it get to you. You need to be able to take 30 rejections in >> stride, and swing just as hard, with as much patience and professionalism as >> you did on the first. And you need to be able to >> >> In the glory days of the dot com era it was an easy job. (pick one resume at >> random from column a, match with one job opening from column b, profit!) >> >> But companies (for the most part) are much smarter in their hiring. and tech >> staff are much more skitti
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Hello Scott, Can you share with us who this good recruiting company is so maybe people from the list may use them in the future? Thanks, Ravi. Scott Brady wrote: > One thing to keep in mind (that I haven't seen mentioned yet) is that > this is a difficult time for recruiters. If companies aren't hiring as > much as they used to, then you have a lot more recruiters trying to fill > fewer positions. > > Our company IS hiring a lot now, and the recruiters seem to be a lot > more desperate now. We have a decent relationship with two different > recruiting companies, so we tend to ignore all of the other calls. (Our > preferred company actually met with the IT team and provided lunch one > day to help them find better-fitting candidates. And, we've hired > several good hires through them [and a few clunkers]) -- this was before > the economy went all to hell. > > Scott > > Scott Stewart wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> >> >> Since there's a large number of recruiters on this list, I've been >> wondering. >> >> How does one break into technical recruiting? >> >> > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4197 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
One thing to keep in mind (that I haven't seen mentioned yet) is that this is a difficult time for recruiters. If companies aren't hiring as much as they used to, then you have a lot more recruiters trying to fill fewer positions. Our company IS hiring a lot now, and the recruiters seem to be a lot more desperate now. We have a decent relationship with two different recruiting companies, so we tend to ignore all of the other calls. (Our preferred company actually met with the IT team and provided lunch one day to help them find better-fitting candidates. And, we've hired several good hires through them [and a few clunkers]) -- this was before the economy went all to hell. Scott Scott Stewart wrote: > Hey all, > > > > Since there's a large number of recruiters on this list, I've been > wondering. > > How does one break into technical recruiting? > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4196 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Some technical recruiters work with the concepts of a fisherman's net. They will catch anyone and everyone for a position, good fit or not. Whenever a recruiter contacts me I take control of the conversation, as I have gotten tired of driving all the way down to 'their' office to fill out their paperwork, just to find out that the job they called me about was not suited for me or my experience levels. Just one story of why it pays to take control of the conversation. I was called by a recruiter who was asking me about my skills for a position she had to fill. After about 15 minutes of talking she said she saw that I had expert skills in Java. I asked her where she saw this and she told me the name of a popular resume site. I immediately pulled up my resume there and looked at it to verify that I was not misrepresenting myself and saw that I made no mention of Java at all in my resume. I am sure many of you have dealt with this yourselves. I told her that I did not have expert skills in Java, and asked her if it was pertinent to the job position. She said it was in the list of required skills and she said that she saw it, then she read to me the line I wrote in that resume describing my Javascript skills. I told her that Javascript is a completely different language from Java. To her credit, she did ask me to explain to her the differences. I did. At least she, hopefully, won't make the same mistake in a future recruitment, but if she hadn't been very conversational, I would have wasted my time going to the interview. I guess I am saying this to you, if you choose to join the ranks of the recruiter, make sure you understand what you are looking for. And if, like so many HR departments do, the requirements look like 'programmer soup' as opposed to a specific requirement, ask the HR department to speak directly to the supervisor who needs the employee. The more knowledgeable of the position you are, the better you present yourself. Looking for a web programmer for a specific company who has to have 8 years of experience in: CF, ASP, .NET, C#, PERL, PHP, C++, JAVA, JavaScript, HTML, PHOTOSHOP, et al Is the same as saying you don't know what you are looking for, unless the actual job description describes why all of the same kinds of programming languages. -- William E. Seiter Need to have your mortgage modified? I charge no fees until I am successful, then I charge almost half the rate you would find elsewhere. Professional. Dedicated. Effective. The Easy 24/7 way to get started: http://www.goldengrove.net/ or you can call: (626) 593 - 5501 -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:02 AM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they have been trying to then they also vanish without a trace (this does not apply to all recruiters). They don't even send you an e-mail to say go look for a new opportunity. I mean, it only takes 5 seconds right? I took 1 week of my time to talk to you and you do not have 5 seconds to say..."Hey, it did not work but maybe next time?" AlsoI had one recruiter call me every 2 weeks to have me rely information about the company hiring procedures. He wanted to know if anyone was being hired directly by the company instead of his recruiting company. SoI try not to be on either side..I am neutral. But man...you come to me to ask me questions but when I go to you to ask you questions you just ignore me? What kind of recruiter-to-programmer relationship is that? This is not an attack on recruiters. My experience with recruiting companies is OK. Will I work with recruiters in the future. YES. Everybody is entitled to making mistakes right? I am sure they also have a lot to tell about programmers too. This is just my $0.02 cents, Ravi. Jerry Johnson wrote: > I was (mostly) kidding. > > But many programmers and tech types do not realize how _hard_ placement folk > work to get someone into a job. > > It seems like free money when you see how much they added to your > contracting rate, or how much you hear they get paid per permanent > placement, but believe it or not it is a difficult job. > > You _need_ to divorce personal feelings for each clien
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Scott, This one kind of got away from the original topic a little : -) There are good Recruiters, and ones who should think about how to improve their customer service skills a bit, and yet others who would do the world a service and go back to selling used cars, or selling junk bonds to little old ladies in Iowa. There's no question about it. Fingers can be pointed all over the place... Recruiters for the lack of follow through, customer service skills, honesty, integrity, etc. Developers for their lack of response, embellishment of skills, dishonesty about being submitted to certain clients, or actually applying directly once a Recruiter revealed the company name, etc, etc... Unfortunately, there are a lot of obstacles and preconceived notions that exist on both sides of the fence. There are many people who don't see the value recruiters bring to the table; people who have never needed to rely on other people to help them find a job. Yet others who are very happy to work with Recruiters (managers and candidates). If you are sincerely interested in delving into this area, please shoot me an email or give me a call. I can give you some good questions to ask that'll help you make sure they are a decent firm to work for. I'll do what I can to help Rich - 407-548-6313 ri...@teaminfo.com -Original Message- From: Ravi Gehlot [mailto:r...@ravigehlot.net] Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:02 AM To: cf-jobs-talk Subject: Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting.. Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they have been trying to then they also vanish without a trace (this does not apply to all recruiters). They don't even send you an e-mail to say go look for a new opportunity. I mean, it only takes 5 seconds right? I took 1 week of my time to talk to you and you do not have 5 seconds to say..."Hey, it did not work but maybe next time?" AlsoI had one recruiter call me every 2 weeks to have me rely information about the company hiring procedures. He wanted to know if anyone was being hired directly by the company instead of his recruiting company. SoI try not to be on either side..I am neutral. But man...you come to me to ask me questions but when I go to you to ask you questions you just ignore me? What kind of recruiter-to-programmer relationship is that? This is not an attack on recruiters. My experience with recruiting companies is OK. Will I work with recruiters in the future. YES. Everybody is entitled to making mistakes right? I am sure they also have a lot to tell about programmers too. This is just my $0.02 cents, Ravi. Jerry Johnson wrote: > I was (mostly) kidding. > > But many programmers and tech types do not realize how _hard_ placement folk > work to get someone into a job. > > It seems like free money when you see how much they added to your > contracting rate, or how much you hear they get paid per permanent > placement, but believe it or not it is a difficult job. > > You _need_ to divorce personal feelings for each client from the equation. > It is easy to get paralyzed with "I _need_ a job this week, or I lose my > house (my children are sick, my mother-in-law lives with us, etc)", but you > cannot let it get to you. You need to be able to take 30 rejections in > stride, and swing just as hard, with as much patience and professionalism as > you did on the first. And you need to be able to > > In the glory days of the dot com era it was an easy job. (pick one resume at > random from column a, match with one job opening from column b, profit!) > > But companies (for the most part) are much smarter in their hiring. and tech > staff are much more skittish after bad experiences. So matchmaking is > important if you want any follow on placements. > > The skillset that makes a good recruiter, in my opinion, are very specific. > As Rob mentions below, they need to leave the tech staff feeling decent > (even if turned down), need to leave the company feeling good (whether you > place a person or not, you still want them to keep your card for next time. > Because there will be a next time). You need for your recruiting company to > feel you are contributing. And you need to feel pretty good about what you > are doing (and how you are doing it) or the smudges on your soul get > overwhelming and over time very ob
RE: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Seems we all have similar experiences. Would love to hear what a recruiter has to say! Adrian > -Original Message- > From: Scott Stewart [mailto:sstwebwo...@bellsouth.net] > Sent: 12 March 2009 19:36 > To: cf-jobs-talk > Subject: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical > Recruiting.. > > Hey all, > > Since there's a large number of recruiters on this list, I've been > wondering. > > How does one break into technical recruiting? > > I've got years of experience as a ColdFusion developer, but it appears > that > the CF market in NC has dried up. So I'm entertaining the idea of > moving > into recruiting, but have no idea where to start. > > Thanks in advance for any replies > > sas > > -- > Scott Stewart ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4193 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Thinking of a career change.. how does one get into Technical Recruiting..
Just my $0.02 cents...I think that recruiters do help one get a job. Yes, most recruiters are all about business but who is not? They try to get you in and if they can not then they go on to the next one. This is just the nature of their business. They gotta make it work and in order to make it work they have to move fast and find the right candidate for the right position. That's fine. However, what I do not agree with is the fact that most of these recruiters are extremely friendly at first and then it all changes afterwards. I have heard this from most programmers. This is not just coming from me. Also, if they can not get you the job that they have been trying to then they also vanish without a trace (this does not apply to all recruiters). They don't even send you an e-mail to say go look for a new opportunity. I mean, it only takes 5 seconds right? I took 1 week of my time to talk to you and you do not have 5 seconds to say..."Hey, it did not work but maybe next time?" AlsoI had one recruiter call me every 2 weeks to have me rely information about the company hiring procedures. He wanted to know if anyone was being hired directly by the company instead of his recruiting company. SoI try not to be on either side..I am neutral. But man...you come to me to ask me questions but when I go to you to ask you questions you just ignore me? What kind of recruiter-to-programmer relationship is that? This is not an attack on recruiters. My experience with recruiting companies is OK. Will I work with recruiters in the future. YES. Everybody is entitled to making mistakes right? I am sure they also have a lot to tell about programmers too. This is just my $0.02 cents, Ravi. Jerry Johnson wrote: > I was (mostly) kidding. > > But many programmers and tech types do not realize how _hard_ placement folk > work to get someone into a job. > > It seems like free money when you see how much they added to your > contracting rate, or how much you hear they get paid per permanent > placement, but believe it or not it is a difficult job. > > You _need_ to divorce personal feelings for each client from the equation. > It is easy to get paralyzed with "I _need_ a job this week, or I lose my > house (my children are sick, my mother-in-law lives with us, etc)", but you > cannot let it get to you. You need to be able to take 30 rejections in > stride, and swing just as hard, with as much patience and professionalism as > you did on the first. And you need to be able to > > In the glory days of the dot com era it was an easy job. (pick one resume at > random from column a, match with one job opening from column b, profit!) > > But companies (for the most part) are much smarter in their hiring. and tech > staff are much more skittish after bad experiences. So matchmaking is > important if you want any follow on placements. > > The skillset that makes a good recruiter, in my opinion, are very specific. > As Rob mentions below, they need to leave the tech staff feeling decent > (even if turned down), need to leave the company feeling good (whether you > place a person or not, you still want them to keep your card for next time. > Because there will be a next time). You need for your recruiting company to > feel you are contributing. And you need to feel pretty good about what you > are doing (and how you are doing it) or the smudges on your soul get > overwhelming and over time very obvious to others. > > I don't have the right skills, but I respect the skills in others and can > recognize people that do have it all when I meet them. > > > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Rich Baker wrote: > > >> Wow... Probably should have exercised better judgment than in sending >> that email to the whole group... - To each his own >> >> Richard E. Baker | TEAM Information Services >> >> > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4192 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
