kdelibs and contrib
Now that all of KDE has gone, we are left with one issue: kdelibs. From what I heard kdelibs is LGPL'd and can be distributed freely. This would mean that someone could reupload it and it will be accepted into contrib? Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpOuKCJN8Mh8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: perl version depends
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Richard Braakman wrote: darkThat only is a large source of packaging bugs. In fact, the (IMO) darkmost annoying upgrade problem in hamm was a pathname problem: two darkpackages had moved to a different directory at the last minute, and darkthe auto upgrade script hadn't been modified to match. Also some complicated packages have perl paths hardwired in relatively obscure places (eg pdl) , and these may not show up immediatley. I agree that there is a good possibility that releasing slink with half a perl upgrade could be a disaster. If we set a policy on the paths within a day or two and then have, say three weeks, and can count on people working hard, and allowing NMU's, we can probably get the critical packages fixed (I don't know what they are). But doing it all in 7 days is not a good idea. Re: installing in /usr/lib/perl5/debian . I have an uneasy feeling about it, but no concrete objections. My guess is that Darrin has a better idea about it than me. It may be ok, I'll follow it if its set. Just to summarize, I think we have to either go back to 5.004 , or push the freeze back a couple of weeks. John John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre
Re: perl version depends
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Michael Stone wrote: mstoneWhat I'm trying to say is why doesn't perl look in /usr/lib/perl5 mstoneanymore? Was this just a gratuitous change, or was there a reason for mstonebreaking things? I can understand the change if there are modules that mstonework in 5.004 but not 5.005, at least from the upstream perspective, but mstonedon't we already have a mechanism for handling conflicts that makes this mstoneredundant? What does /usr/lib/perl5/5.005 buy us? This is decided by the perl authors, not debian. Darrin can change things and install whereever he likes and change the include path, but we have to make sure it doesn't break things. So to the extent possible, we stay with the official perl installation. However, at least part of their rationale for the new scheme is to allow multiple versions of perl, a feature that debian is not interested in. Why they (perl guys) did not leave /usr/lib/perl5 in the search path is not clear to me. Perhaps because they assume that othe modules will install in site_perl or local. But systems with package managers, like ours don't use these dirs. John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson,AZ http://www.physics.arizona.edu/~lapeyre
Re: Freeze in 7 days??? (was Re: perl version depends)
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Santiago Vila wrote: 2) Are we really going to freeze slink in 7 days? I dont think we should freeze until we have a broken libc in slink... -- Madarasz Gergely [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/
Re: Freeze in 7 days??? (was Re: perl version depends)
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote: On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Santiago Vila wrote: 2) Are we really going to freeze slink in 7 days? I dont think we should freeze until we have a broken libc in slink... ^ Hmpf... I meant while :) -- Madarasz Gergely [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry. Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni. HuLUG: http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/
Re: perl version depends
John Lapeyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However, at least part of their rationale for the new scheme is to allow multiple versions of perl, a feature that debian is not interested in. Threaded perl and non-threaded perl are binary-incompatible at the extension level, meaning most compiled extensions must be distinguishable. Furthermore, there was a lot of concern that most perl-only extensions are not yet thread-safe. Therefore, I believe, the decision was made to have all extensions, etc, reside in a arch-directory that would distinguish between thread and non-thread. So, yes, I think Debian does have to honor this, and to make our perl gratuitously different (which is to say, having it look in /usr/lib/perl5) would be inviting calamity some time down the road. I say this in full knowledge that I'm going to have to recompile a heap of perl modules next week. And I'm glad Darren didn't make a thrperl yet, so we don't have to deal with that issue immediately. Mike.
Reverting to Perl 5.004
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- I suspect that it's in the best interest of the freeze to revert to Perl 5.004. I'm currently uploading the 5.004.04-6 release to master's Incoming. I'll file a bug on ftp.debian.org that the 5.005 release should be deleted and the 5.004 release installed. I'll provide an ftp site for the 5.005 release until December when we have the new release started. Currently, it will have the 5.005.02-2 release in it. My plans include putting the two extra paths in @INC. It won't be released immediately since I want to do some experiments first. Perl module packagers who want to release 5.005 modules are welcome to upload packages there. It will be available at: ftp://ftp.daft.com/pub/debian/Perl-5.005/. Uploads are welcome at ftp://ftp.daft.com/pub/debian/incoming. Darren - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.daft.com/~torin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Stalder/2608 Second Ave, @282/Seattle, WA 98121-1212/USA/+1-800-921-4996 @ Sysadmin, webweaver, postmaster for hire. C/Perl/CGI/Pilot programmer/tutor @ @Make a little hot-tub in your soul. @ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQCVAwUBNh1fubQuaHP6LBjxAQH7IAQAlHW2cgUdRQT073fUqrdbqxJtnaiha2nG JWFNZUASbRh3PuS4MzizJPplpFwDBYZDOeqLXvJ1HiyFavUqw7fqbdz7ksfebF0d zemdv351a/GgP2dVWQCTmLhpCFqDC174B9fOqIQHkXRmCgwt9fPQ9csX9MggyAqy FvJeVyAfqmI= =IRGl -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Reverting to Perl 5.004
Darren Stalder wrote: I suspect that it's in the best interest of the freeze to revert to Perl Thanks. 5.004. I'm currently uploading the 5.004.04-6 release to master's Incoming. I'll file a bug on ftp.debian.org that the 5.005 release should be deleted and the 5.004 release installed. Maybe that's not needed since, right after s/unstable/frozen/ there will be a new unstable which is perfectly the correct place for the new perl package. Regards, Joey -- The only stupid question is the unasked one.
Consensus on source packages for ports?
So, is there any consensus on how to upload source packages for ports? I have some things like strace that I would like to upload for arm, but the source is fairly different... Hrmm... pondering.. maybe I can get around it.. hrmmm Thanks, -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
Re: PGP in the US (Re: formal documents)
Gregory S. Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might not be legal for someone to give him PGP or explain how crypto works even while he's in the US. No, the regulations prohibit export. If he's in the US, that's not export. As you mention, even if it was a problem, it would be a problem for the exporter, not the user. [That said, if you are a cryptographer and you want to talk to people without having to get proof of their citizenship you might want to review Berstein vs. US Dept. of State...] -- Raul
Re: Uploaded tmpreaper 1.4.8 (source i386) to master
Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that sounds like a better idea if it would work, but just like the touching idea, you'd have to make sure that all the relevant programs actually keep the file open, and don't just open it when they need it. I think we can safely say that a program which leaves an unopened file in /tmp for days, and expects it to never be deleted, is buggy. -- Raul
Re: FWD: Re: Linus is on a powertrip..
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is from the linux kernel mailing list. I find it pretty completly sums op my thoughts on all the new constitution and voting and policy voting stuff that we've been setting up. I haven't been vocal about this, but I think we've been moving in the wrong direction. Perhaps. Remember that a lot of the focus on debian is still: the individual developer does the development. Debian as a whole doesn't *do* development, we do testing and coordination. But probably this is meaningful for projects like dpkg. Of course, this came up on linux kernel because Linus is showing signs of burnout - just like Bruce burnt out. The benevolent dicator system isn't perfect. Of course, Linus is now a father and has a full-time job. The demands of which are likely to reduce his sense of humor for people saying that it's too much work to send him a patch when he's getting so many that a number of them drop on the floor, and even those that don't may sit in his queue for a while. -- Raul
Re: Back to RedHat
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Emacs should not be part of the 'basics' (I say this as an emacs user). I think we should have a priority between Standard and Optional, perhaps named Recommended. These are packages which would be Standard, but for size. Tex and a lot of X should also appear here. -- Raul
Re: what's after slink
On a related note, do we want to continue using names from pixar movies now that Bruce is gone? Justin Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i see no reason not to. they are nice names, the only problem is that we may be running out of good ones (i admit, rc was a stretch) irony type=mild Is this supposed to imply that there's something wrong with Mr. Potato Head? /irony -- Raul
Re: expect trouble
Paul Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ever since hamm, expect has been giving me serious trouble. It won't run cleanly when started from cron. This means that a lot of my expects scripts are broken. I use expect extensively for system maintanance and accounting (make sure servers run, upload websites and databases, etc) I've had this problem too. I've been working around it by allocating a high-numbered tty on the console and redirection descriptors 0, 1 and 2 to that tty. [I tried doing a bug report on it a year or so ago, and even got a response from Don Libes. Of course, that was for the use of expect's interact command, but basically he was saying that the behavior I was describing was appropriate (after a rather minor change specifically to support linux). I kinda gave up on the bug-reporting side of things at that point, as I just needed to get my stuff working.] -- Raul
Re: Release Critical Bugs List
Contrib and Non-free packages can't have release critical bugs -- they're not even an official part of debian. -- Raul
Re: vat tcl8.0.3
David Engel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:27:17PM -0700, Alex Romosan wrote: can somebody who know more about tcl (maybe even the tcl maintainer) take a look at this? i appreciate any help. thank you. I (the Tcl maintainer) don't have time to do this right now. Sorry. okay, i posted this a week ago, and since then i've been trying to find the solution, with no luck though. i've searched the usenet archives at altavista/dejanews, read the comp.lan.tcl newsgroup. there is no mention of this problem. what i've discovered so far is that none of the mbone programs which use embedded tcl (sdr/vat/vic/nt these are the ones i know of) work with the current 8.0.3. they all crash with the same error message: invalid command name tcl_findLibrary they all work fine if downgrade to 8.0p2. i've tried compiling them with tcl8.0p2-dev and then upgrading to 8.0.3 (as i said before) and they don't work anymore. i think this is a bug in tcl 8.0.3. i am willing to investigate this a little bit further, but i need help. does anybody know of any programs that use tcl translated to c and compiled into the executable? i want to see if they work under tcl 8.0.3. all the mbone programs use the same tcl2c(++) translator which might be the problem. if we can't get this working by the freeze i propose we take these packages out of the next stable release (i guess we won't have a choice anyway). sorry to bother you all (and especially david) but i need help (and i didn't really get any responses last time). --alex-- -- | I believe the moment is at hand when, by a paranoiac and active | | advance of the mind, it will be possible (simultaneously with | | automatism and other passive states) to systematize confusion | | and thus to help to discredit completely the world of reality. |
Re: gdselect alpha 2
-Original Message- From: Tom Lees [EMAIL PROTECTED] alpha 2 is released at http://www.lpsg.demon.co.uk/gdselect/ I was trying to compile it, had a little problem with some includes on glib, which I overcame, but it seg faulted (or something like that, said glib caught it) in the initial run and setup, this is on a system that has latest gtk and glib, but is 100MB behind in other regards (been away from this machine for a month, running apt tonite on it). Shaya
boot-floppies, rewrite of help screens
I spent some time rewriting the help screens for the rescue disk to make them more comprehensible and to add information about using the rescue disk to rescue a system. I put the patch on master //master.debian.org/~elf/patches/boot-floppies_2.0.11_p1 Comments?
Re: vat tcl8.0.3
On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 08:10:09PM -0700, Alex Romosan wrote: David Engel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Oct 01, 1998 at 12:27:17PM -0700, Alex Romosan wrote: can somebody who know more about tcl (maybe even the tcl maintainer) take a look at this? i appreciate any help. thank you. I (the Tcl maintainer) don't have time to do this right now. Sorry. okay, i posted this a week ago, and since then i've been trying to find the solution, with no luck though. i've searched the usenet archives at altavista/dejanews, read the comp.lan.tcl newsgroup. there is no mention of this problem. what i've discovered so far is that none of the mbone programs which use embedded tcl (sdr/vat/vic/nt these are the ones i know of) work with the current 8.0.3. they all crash with the same error message: invalid command name tcl_findLibrary tcl_findLibrary is a new proc added in v8.0.3. It is implemented in the init.tcl startup script. I suspect tcl2c needs to incorporate this into it's version of init.tcl or equivalent since the libtcl8.0 library expects it to be present. if we can't get this working by the freeze i propose we take these packages out of the next stable release (i guess we won't have a choice anyway). sorry to bother you all (and especially david) but i need help (and i didn't really get any responses last time). The upcoming freeze doesn't mean you can't fix bugs, especially serious ones, like this. It means that you can't introduce completely new packages or major new versions of existing packages without good reason. David -- David Engel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl policy for managing modules ?
Ok, after some thought, and fielding a LOT of perl questions on #debian, I've come up with a more workable idea which gives us much better handling for the next time something like this happens.. Rename perl to perl5.005, version 02-2 or such.. Then use the alternatives setup to decide which perl gets run when you try to use just 'perl'.. At that point packages which are NOT subject to binary compatibility issues can depend on perl5, and those which are can depend on perl5.005, etc.. This allows us to both handle future perl upgrades cleanly, and allows us to maintain more then one version of perl at any given time.. Any comments? Zephaniah E, Hull.. On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 09:57:36AM -0400, Dan Jacobowitz wrote: Le Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 02:31:40AM -0700, Darren/Torin/Who Ever... écrivait: I do worry about what this might break as well. Another option would be to have /usr/lib/perl5/debian(/$arch)? be the first element of @INC and leave /usr/lib/perl5/$version(/$arch)? there with only the Perl installed files. I'll ask on p5p if this will break things. My question is, why are we so intent on removing the versioned component even though we have lost binary compatibility? I understand that it requires some packaging changes, but the packaging can usually be easily rewritten to work for any version (use perl5/5.*/, etc.). Dan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpk4oO1Le4IK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: kdelibs and contrib
On Fri, 09 Oct 1998, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Now that all of KDE has gone, we are left with one issue: kdelibs. From what I heard kdelibs is LGPL'd and can be distributed freely. This would mean that someone could reupload it and it will be accepted into contrib? I think that the packages qt*, kdesupport*, and kdelibs* should be included in non-free. There's nothing in the policy to stop them and it just makes things that much easier for Debian users who want to use KDE.
Re: suggestion - AntiVir for Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Chris wrote: Since when did linux get virus's You'd only get them on a really bad system - which debian is not (or if you did EVERYTHING as root). On a linux system exporting disk space to Windows machines, it is indeed practical to have an anti-virus able to report if your shares contains virii. Just out of curiosity would anyone be interested in a mcafee virusscan installer package in slink contrib? I have everything created, the only thing I'd have to work on would be upstream upgrades (it currently doesn't handle this at all) and then I'd write an intent to package and upload it. I could probably squeeze it in before the freeze. Thing is, Network Associates Inc. is axing the Mcafee engine in favor of Dr Solomon soon. However, it *is* the world's first self-replicating debian package :) (build-uvscan makes full debs of the engine and datfiles, the engine deb includes build-uvscan :) -- Robert Woodcock - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix and C are the ultimate computer viruses -- Richard Gabriel
Re: Release Critical Bugs List
On Fri, Oct 02, 1998 at 07:00:31PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: Contrib and Non-free packages can't have release critical bugs -- they're not even an official part of debian. yeah yeah, the package ain't part of Debian anymore because of a lack of license and no way to get the author to fix it. =p Sue me. = pgppdwUlW6Dj8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Intent to package: python-mxtexttools, python-mxcrypto
I'd like to announce my intention to package two more python add-on modules: Package: python-mxtexttools Version: 1.0.1-0 Section: interpreters Priority: optional Architecture: i386 Depends: libc6, python-base (= 1.5) Installed-Size: 132 Maintainer: Gregor Hoffleit [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: Fast text manipulation tools for Python Fast text manipulation tools for Python. Package: python-mxcrypto Version: 0.1.0-0 Section: non-US/interpreters Maintainer: Gregor Hoffleit [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: Generic SSLeay crypto wrapper type for Python A Python wrapper for the ciphers and hash functions in Eric Young's SSLeay library. -- | Gregor Hoffleit admin MATHInet / contact HeidelNeXT | | MAIL: Mathematisches Institut PHONE: (49)6221 56-5771 | | INF 288, 69120 Heidelberg / Germany FAX: 56-3812 | | EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (NeXTmail)|
Re: PGP in the US (Re: formal documents)
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This reminds me of a joke; unfortunately I couldn't track it down in a quick look on altavista and I haven't any more time to look for it. In short, a man attends several days of a trade show and each day tells a security guard that today he will steal many things and yesterday he stole many good things. He is stealing ideas. % fortune -m 'stealing ideas' (computers) % There once was a man who went to a computer trade show. Each day as he entered, the man told the guard at the door: I am a great thief, renowned for my feats of shoplifting. Be forewarned, for this trade show shall not escape unplundered. This speech disturbed the guard greatly, because there were millions of dollars of computer equipment inside, so he watched the man carefully. But the man merely wandered from booth to booth, humming quietly to himself. When the man left, the guard took him aside and searched his clothes, but nothing was to be found. On the next day of the trade show, the man returned and chided the guard saying: I escaped with a vast booty yesterday, but today will be even better. So the guard watched him ever more closely, but to no avail. On the final day of the trade show, the guard could restrain his curiosity no longer. Sir Thief, he said, I am so perplexed, I cannot live in peace. Please enlighten me. What is it that you are stealing? The man smiled. I am stealing ideas, he said. -- Geoffrey James, The Tao of Programming % I've seen the entire Tao available to download somewhere. -- Carey Evans http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/c.evans/ So, do you steal weapons from the Army often? Well, we don't get cable, so we have to make our own fun.
Re: lesstif
On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 11:15:09AM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote: I was right in that lesstif causes my problems. After reverting to the hamm version everything is fine again. So there either is a bug in lesstifg or an incompatibility. Odd. I've recently been coding a simple Motif program for a university assignment, and the versions in slink work ten times better than the one in hamm. (Perhaps my program was buggy when I tried it though, but code that didn't work on lesstifg from hamm did work on real Motif on Solaris.) Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3TYD [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org
Re: Ratifying the constitution
(I've now caught up on debian-devel, barring my 7 articles marked to return, of which this was one ...) Guy Maor writes on the 10th of September: Yes, let's. I am formally proposing version 0.8 of the constitution as given in http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/debian-organisation.html. Although Ian has formerly proposed this version, any proposed amendments would stall the process due to his effective absence. There are 357 unique entries in the Maintainers file. Q is 9.9, K is 5. We therefore need 5 seconds and a quorum of 30 votes. Minimum discussion period is 2 weeks. Thanks, Guy ! I was going to post to reduce the minimum discussion period, but this is now unnecessary. Would you like to call for a vote now ? Brian Basset mailed me to say that his mail problem was temporary, so he'll be the Secretary, unless people have strong objections or he'd like to give the job to someone else. Alternatively, Brian may wish to delegate his authority to one of the people who've been working on voting software. Ian.
Re: Ratifying the constitution
Buddha Buck writes (Re: Ratifying the constitution ): ... That's not what it means. It means that in order for an amendment to automatically be accepted, you need to convince 6 people, Guy and the five seconds. If they don't like it, you can force it to a vote. I think you require seconds yourself inorder to do that, and then when it comes to a vote, you have to have a 3:1 majority. No, that's not true. The 3:1 majority only applies to changing the constitution once it's accepted, not to amendments. A.6(7): 7.If a supermajority is required the number of Yes votes in the final ballot is reduced by an appropriate factor. ^^^ ... Out of curiosity, how formal does a proposed amendment have to be. I mean, will this work for an amendment proposal? (And if so, I'd like to propose it: --Amendment Proposal Steve McIntyre, Jay Treacy, et al aren't realy doing the traditional job of seconds, which is to indicate that there is enough interest to justify discussing an issue. Seconds traditionally aren't even recorded, just acknowledged as existing. Here, they have a lot more power than that. They are recorded by name, their must be a minimum number of them (mere existance isn't enough, there must be sufficient strength), and they must approve any friendly amendment. Not only that, but if the proposer should fail to perform his duties, one of the seconds can assume that role (under the proper procedures). It is assumed that these five support the proposed constitution, not just feel it merits discussion. Seconds traditionally are allowed to argue against a measure the seconded -- they may have wanted the issue to be officially discused and killed. This is not the role of Steve McIntyre, Jay Treacy, etc. I propose that the constitution be modified to replace the work second (and affiliated declinations thereof) with the word sponsor (and affiliated declinations thereof), when used to refer to the people formally supporting a proposal brought forth under this constitution. ---End Amendment Proposal- Or should I replace the second paragraph with a context diff of the constitution text, with the exact changes I want? I don't think there's any lack of formality in your proposed amendment, except that it's not clear from your message that you actually are making this proposal. I'd be perfectly happy with your amendment, but shan't second it myself just now, because there's an extra week's delay involved from the point where Guy accepts the amendment (I'd reduce the minimum discussion period). If Guy does accept this amendment I want to submit another (or have Guy incorporate it): After A.1(5) add: 6. The proposer of a resolution may make changes to correct minor errors (for example, typographical errors or inconsistencies) or changes which do not alter the meaning, providing noone objects within 24 hours. In this case the mininum discussion period is not restarted. (This change of the word `seconder' to `sponsor' might well have fallen under this proposed amendment.) Ian.
Re: Discussion - Proposed Constitution - voting part 2
Darren Benham writes (Discussion - Proposed Constitution - voting part 2): I've found another area that could cause problems in the vote counting area. I've been running various sceanios and here's what I've found: In point 5 of A.6. describes the STV method. Basicly, if no one option has 1/2 the votes, The option that got the least number of votes is removed and every ballot that had that option listed as 1st prefered, will use thier 2nd prefered as 1st and 3rd prefered as 2nd. If a ballot has had all of it's options disqualified (lets say they only voted a 1 in one option and left the others blank.. and that option gets disqualified), their vote has no options. The Constitution doesn't state what to do with these ballots so they remain counted toward the total half needed by the winning option but they don't add any count to any option. It's possible for this no preference to actually win the vote. The constitution doesn't state what this would mean, either... This is particularly possible in the cases where a Supermajority is needed. Possible Options that wouldn't be far fetched: no preference = the default option or ballots with no preference don't count towards the half needed to win. A.6(5)(iii): This elimination procedure is repeated, moving down ballot papers to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. preferences as required, until one option gets more than half of the `first' preferences. It seems to me to be clear that the intent is that if a ballot has no remaining preferences then it doesn't count when considering which option might have more than half of the `first' preferences. Such a ballot couldn't be said to have a `first' preference any more, surely ? In point 8, where Quorum is talked about, it states that for an option to win, it must have X more votes for than vs. the default option. Ok, there are two methods used to determine a winner if method one doesn't produce a winner (More people prefer this option against that option) we switch to the other method (STV). These two methods can *often* result in different outcomes so the answer to this next question can make an important difference in the outcome of votes: If the first method produces a clear winner ( 4. If there is any option which Dominates all others then that is the winner and 2. option A is said to Dominate option B if *strictly* more ballots prefer A to B than prefer B to A emphasis mine), but fails to get the Quorum, do we still switch to the STV method ( 5. If there is now *more than one* option remainging STV will be applied to choose amongst those remaining emphasis mine) of do we end the count there and declare the default option to have won? I think the constitution implies that the vote ends there... A.6(8): 8.If a quorum is required, there must be at least that many votes which prefer the winning option to the default option. If there are not then the default option wins after all. For votes requiring a supermajority, the actual number of Yes votes is used when checking whether the quorum has been reached. The winning option here refers to the outcome of steps 1-7, clearly, and 8 is intended to _modify_ the outcome. So, if Concorde doesn't produce a clear-cut answer we use STV amongst the remaining options, and then we have a putative `winner'. If this winner didn't actually have enough ballots which prefer it to the default, then the default option is declared the winner. There's nothing saying we should go and restart the ballot counting with STV instead, or something. The condition for using 4 or 5 is whether there is one option which Dominates all the others, and 8 can't change the answer to that question. Ian.
Re: Contacting authors
Martin Schulze writes (Contacting authors): tonight I was thinking about implementing @authors.debian.org which would enable a way for us to get in touch with the upstream authors of some piece of software without the need of looking into the copyright file or digging in the source if the maintainer forgot to add the authors email into that file. What do you think about it? Example: [EMAIL PROTECTED] would redirect the mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] who is the current developer of hypermail. I'm sorry to say that I think this is a bad idea. I think most authors wouldn't want to be contacted in this way - I know that I in my capacity as upstream author wouldn't. Making it easy to contact the upstream author(s) in this way will encourage our users to contact them directly, and many (most) of these messages will be about Debian-specific things. One of the main reasons we have package maintainers is to filter bogus mail, so that upstream authors don't get bombarded with questions and bug reports about Debian. Furthermore, the procedures and requirements for contacting upstream authors vary greatly: in some cases the upstream author suggests use of a mailing list, in others they're an individual, in some cases a group. Sometimes mail to this address will generate an automatic response; sometimes it will bounce. Packages vary in the conventions expected when contacting the upstream author: for example, some authors really like patches, others loath them. I don't think we can harmonise this (or that it would be desirable to do so), and we shouldn't pretend to people that we have done by presenting a harmonised interfac3e. Clueful people who know that they want to contact the upstream authors can read the details in /usr/doc - most packages include there the upstream READMEs etc. which give instructions for contacting the authors. Thanks, and sorry to be negative, Ian.
Re: perl version depends
Le Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 08:54:46PM -0400, Michael Alan Dorman écrivait: Threaded perl and non-threaded perl are binary-incompatible at the extension level, meaning most compiled extensions must be distinguishable. I think you're wrong. perl5.005 and perl5.005-thread are binary-compatible. But in order to support threads, they had to break the binary-compatibility beetween perl5.004 and perl5.005. That's it. So, yes, I think Debian does have to honor this, and to make our perl gratuitously different (which is to say, having it look in /usr/lib/perl5) would be inviting calamity some time down the road. Which in fact doesn't mean we cannot add /usr/lib/perl5 at the end of @INC because architecture-dependant packages will be found before. Cheers, -- Hertzog Raphaël ¤ 0C4CABF1 ¤ http://www.mygale.org/~hra/
The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
In light of the perl issues (see my last message) and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? Thanks. Zephaniah E, Hull.. pgpL2Z9IpY4sx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: kdelibs and contrib
Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate replying to myself, but here we go.. kdelibs is LGPL. As someone mentioned it does use some code derived from gettext (libintl.cpp), which is GPL. However the code was taken from a version modified for glibc2 where is was redistributed as LGPL. I'll put the exact copyright message below. All this LGPL stuff should be documented in the copyright file. LGPL is a perfectly acceptable license for us to distribute KDE under -- if that's really the case. -- Raul
Intent to package python-opengl and pcgi
Then, I'd like to announce my intention to package python-opengl and pcgi. python-opengl depends on togl, which has not yet been packaged. Package: python-opengl Depends: mesag2, togl, python-tk Description: An Python interface for OpenGL, GLU, GLUT and Togl PyOpenGL provides bindings between the Python language and OpenGL and related libraries. See also: Package: togl Depends: mesag2, tk80 Description: A Tk OpenGL widget Togl is a Tk widget for OpenGL rendering.Togl allows one to create and manage a special Tk/OpenGL widget with Tcl and render into it with a C program. That is, a typical Togl program will have Tcl code for managing the user interface and a C program for computations and OpenGL rendering. Home page: http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~brianp/Togl.html Package: pcgi Recommends: python-bobo Depends: python-net Description: Persistent CGI for Python Persistent CGI provides a transparent architecture for accessing published web objects as long-running processes. Published objects may be accessed on any server supporting CGI. Pcgi is designed to work with Bobo (the Python object publisher), effectively turning a Bobo application into a fast, long-running web application without requiring any changes to the application code. Home page: http://www.digicool.com/releases/pcgi/
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 06:40:54AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In light of the perl issues (see my last message) A bug report has been submitted to ftp.debian.org to put the previous version back, which means the perl issues need not be dealt with in the current development cycle. and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? I'm not aware of any software in slink that must be updated to work with 2.2 properly (with the exception of pcmcia-cs); slink currently runs fine with 2.1.x (which I suspect quite a few developers run). If the release manager is willing to accept the 2.2 kernel and rebuilt bootdisks during the freeze, I see no reason to postpone the freeze date. Brian? Ray -- POPULATION EXPLOSION Unique in human experience, an event which happened yesterday but which everyone swears won't happen until tomorrow. - The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan
When will the freeze happen ???
Sorry, maybe I'm deaf or blind or my mail spool went to /dev/null, but I never saw a concrete date for the freeze in the last months. Can somebody enlighten me when it will happen ? Gregor
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In light of the perl issues (see my last message) and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? I don't think this would be a good idea, even if we delay the freeze. There are a lot of packages that would have to be recompiled for Linux 2.2. This will take time and a lot of testing. But if Linux 2.2 is released as stable in the near future, maybe we should release Debian 2.2 soon after Debian 2.1. This way we would have more time to think about the complex FHS move. -- 3a872f2b50d454b17721f21b6fd30055 (a truly random sig)
Re: Contacting authors
Ian Jackson wrote: Martin Schulze writes (Contacting authors): tonight I was thinking about implementing @authors.debian.org which would enable a way for us to get in touch with the upstream authors of some piece of software without the need of looking into the copyright file or digging in the source if the maintainer forgot to add the authors email into that file. What do you think about it? Example: [EMAIL PROTECTED] would redirect the mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] who is the current developer of hypermail. I'm sorry to say that I think this is a bad idea. I think most authors wouldn't want to be contacted in this way - I know that I in my capacity as upstream author wouldn't. Making it easy to contact the upstream author(s) in this way will encourage our users to contact them directly, and many (most) of these messages will be about Debian-specific things. One of the main reasons we have package maintainers is to filter bogus mail, so that upstream authors don't get bombarded with questions and bug reports about Debian. How many maintainer are false contacted via the packages.debian.org mechanism? This mechanism was implemented a long time ago and I guess that it's even documented on the web somewhere. Thanks, and sorry to be negative, No problem. That's why I've asked. For me the question is not to do or not to do anymore but do it locally or let other maintainers benefit from it. Thus, a stop that is ok, too. You wouldn't want to implement any such mechanism? Regards, Joey -- No question is too silly to ask, but, of course, some are too silly to answer. -- Perl book
Re: dpkg config files in /etc ?
Hi, My general rule of thinking about it is: state is an opion within the program which can be changed and should be remembered next time. esp something which reasonably could change every time the program is used (it is concievable I have a CD today...in a month I am FTP upgrading) this is not something which is meant to be changed by hand besides... There are several packages that supply a package-config script to manipulate their config files because their config files are rather complex (e.g., sendmail). The config files are, however, located in /etc. the main rational for /var is to allow other partitions to be mounted read only... if this were stored in /etc/etc would HAVE to be mounted read-write (though I supose given the nature of deslect you could argue everything excpet /home and /usr/local should be read-write...) Yes, when I change the access method or the list of selected packages I am almost certainly going to upgrade the system and therefore /etc and /usr have to be mounted r/w anyhow. My point is that the list of selected packages belongs to the *basic* configuration of a debian system and it should be stored on /etc. We have a whole bunch of different desktop debian machines and I want to be shure that I can restore the state of each machine after a disk crash. To rebuild a single system I need * the knowledge of the physical disk layout * a backup copy of /etc and /home * a debian archive * some information hidden in /var/lib/dpkg It would be fine and consistent, if I could omit the last point. Cheers, Thomas
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
Santiago == Santiago Vila [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Santiago There are a lot of packages that would have to be recompiled Santiago for Linux 2.2. This will take time and a lot of testing. I can see pcmcia (28-Sep-98 is needed) and netutils (so that IPv6 is supported), but not a lot of packages. Also, from a marketing point of view, it would be great to have the first distribution using Linux 2.2 :-) Imagine the stickers on the CDs :) Sam -- Samuel Tardieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
I'm not aware of any software in slink that must be updated to work with 2.2 properly (with the exception of pcmcia-cs); slink currently runs fine with 2.1.x (which I suspect quite a few developers run). I do run 2.1.124 on my laptop and am really impressed by this kernel. It uses less memory and runs smoother under heavy load than any kernel I've ever used. Moreover, it has never been so easy to configure my soundcard and IP firewalling with ipchains is really comfortable compared to ipfwadm. Sam -- Samuel Tardieu -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:20:34PM +0200, Samuel Tardieu wrote: I can see pcmcia (28-Sep-98 is needed) and netutils (so that IPv6 is supported), but not a lot of packages. IIRC, libc6 doesn't support IPv6; you need a beta version for that. So this is only an issue if we intend to release one of the libc6.1 using ports. Ray -- Tevens ben ik van mening dat Nederland overdekt dient te worden.
Re: Consensus on source packages for ports?
Previously David Welton wrote: So, is there any consensus on how to upload source packages for ports? I have some things like strace that I would like to upload for arm, but the source is fairly different... Hrmm... pondering.. maybe I can get around it.. hrmmm I would suggest first mailing the maintainer. Esp. in the case of strace which is rapidly becoming a nightmare to support on all architectures and different libc version. Wichert. (who is the strace maintainer) -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpJ3fJJb9lDw.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On 9 Oct 1998, Samuel Tardieu wrote: Santiago There are a lot of packages that would have to be recompiled Santiago for Linux 2.2. This will take time and a lot of testing. I can see pcmcia (28-Sep-98 is needed) and netutils (so that IPv6 is supported), but not a lot of packages. Well, kernel-package is a single package but it would be surely a lot of work, since there are a lot of new drivers. We should base our distribution in stable software, not in betas. Maybe we should wait for 2.0.36, not for 2.2. -- 33ca525b2c9f2cd0f9b40ef52e0d64f6 (a truly random sig)
contacting porters (was: Contacting authors)
On Thu 08 Oct 1998, Edward Betts wrote: And while we are doing it how about implementing @m86k.porter.debian.org or @arm.builder.debian.org for the person who has recomplied the package on different machines (m86k, powerpc, alpha, arm, etc). Now this _is_ a good idea! I've already asked on debian-alpha a couple of times who ported this package?. I port a lot of alpha packages myself, and don't always remember whether I did the current version or maybe a previous version... This list could be updated via the maor-installer thing (whatever also sends the email message; that has all the info right there). An easy way to implement this would be to simply add a line to the source section of debian/control of each package like Likewise with builder, or not? Would you need m86k-builder and arm-builder and powerpc-builder or would it be done differently? It's there in the changes file... Note that this would imply that there should also be a [EMAIL PROTECTED] which would usually be the same as [EMAIL PROTECTED] (but not always! The maintainer may use something else besides i386 as his platform). Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl | Murphy Software, Enschede, the Netherlands
Re: Contacting authors
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Peter S Galbraith wrote: The author should get the credit, and more exposition... Policy says /usr/doc/package/copyruight should say who written the program. The credit should be already there. Or are we afraid that they might get bug reports that should go the the Debian bug tracking system? Yes, I'm *very* afraid. I fully agree with Ian and think it is not a good idea. -- 1afbf0651886aa5cfc2a65f0cac3e2d3 (a truly random sig)
important perl5.005 issues (was Re: perl version depends)
Raphael Hertzog [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Le Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 08:54:46PM -0400, Michael Alan Dorman écrivait: Threaded perl and non-threaded perl are binary-incompatible at the extension level, meaning most compiled extensions must be distinguishable. I think you're wrong. perl5.005 and perl5.005-thread are binary-compatible. But in order to support threads, they had to break the binary-compatibility beetween perl5.004 and perl5.005. That's it. I think you should read the docs or follow the last couple of years of the perl5 development mailing list, as I have, before you suggest you know better than I. From doc/perldelta.pod: -8- =head2 Binary Compatibility This version is NOT binary compatible with older versions. All extensions will need to be recompiled. Further binaries built with threads enabled are incompatible with binaries built without. This should largely be transparent to the user, as all binary incompatible configurations have their own unique architecture name, and extension binaries get installed at unique locations. This allows coexistence of several configurations in the same directory hierarchy. See FINSTALL. -8- So, yes, I think Debian does have to honor this, and to make our perl gratuitously different (which is to say, having it look in /usr/lib/perl5) would be inviting calamity some time down the road. Which in fact doesn't mean we cannot add /usr/lib/perl5 at the end of @INC because architecture-dependant packages will be found before. Possibly. But, also from doc/perldelta.pod: -8- =head2 Perl Source Compatibility When none of the experimental features are enabled, there should be very few user-visible Perl source compatibility issues. If threads are enabled, then some caveats apply. C@_ and C$_ become lexical variables. The effect of this should be largely transparent to the user, but there are some boundary conditions under which user will need to be aware of the issues. For example, Clocal(@_) results in a Can't localize lexical variable @_ ... message. This may be enabled in a future version. Some new keywords have been introduced. These are generally expected to have very little impact on compatibility. See LNew CINIT keyword, LNew Clock keyword, and LNew Cqr// operator. Certain barewords are now reserved. Use of these will provoke a warning if you have asked for them with the C-w switch. See LCour is now a reserved word. -8- So, there is no guarantee that existing perl modules may not trigger new warnings or other issues when run under the new perl. So, IMNSHO, the smarter thing to do would be to not add /usr/lib/perl5 to @INC. Mike.
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri 09 Oct 1998, J.H.M. Dassen Ray wrote: and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? I'm not aware of any software in slink that must be updated to work with 2.2 properly (with the exception of pcmcia-cs); slink currently runs fine with 2.1.x (which I suspect quite a few developers run). Isdnutils needs to be rebuilt; some of the structures passed in ioctl's have changed. The important stuff from isdnutils refuses to run on 2.2 (you get a message about wrong versions, so at least it doesn't crash). That said, it's trivial to rebuild (if perhaps a bit longwinded). Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl | Murphy Software, Enschede, the Netherlands
Desperate need for a config tool
I'm not a developer but would like to share my experience with installing/using Debian and compare it to Windows 95/98. I'm a long time Unix user (Sun, Apollo, HP), but not administrator, and started to use/administer a Debian machine a year ago. Since then I installed/upgraded Debian 2.0 on three machines. I found my system (dual PPro) very stable, fast, with all the software I need running well, easy to upgrade and maintain. However, configuring it is a nightmare, especially in comparison to Windows. I'm not a Windows user, but on a dual boot machine I needed about 5 min. to set the proper time, configure the monitor, install printer and ZIP drive, establish a PPP connection. On Linux I have to read a lot of documentation (/usr/doc, man pages, HOWTOs, bug reports) before I can set almost trivial things (like changing From: field in the mail headers). Eventually, this usually involves changing just a line or two in configuration files, but may take hours/days to find out. I installed and tried Webmin, and it looked like a great tool for a non-experienced administrator. I didn't stay with it because it has support just for Debian 1.3, and it isn't packaged for Debian. So it doesn't give me any assurance that what it does to my config files is in accordance with Debian 2.0 policy. However, a tool like that, with Debian support (eg, all packages with config files should register with it, like menu system) would certainly bring Debian much closer to non-experienced users. Now the obvious: Why don't you do it? First, I lack the expertise, and second, such a tool really requires to be accepted into the Debian policy. This note shouldn't be taken as a criticism to your great work, but rather as a point of view of a grateful, non-expert user. If anybody cares, I'm willing to give a detailed account of typical configuration problems. -Igor Mozetic
Re: Ratifying the constitution
Buddha Buck writes (Re: Ratifying the constitution ): ... ... Out of curiosity, how formal does a proposed amendment have to be. I mean, will this work for an amendment proposal? (And if so, I'd like to propose it: --Amendment Proposal [replace seconds with sponsor] ---End Amendment Proposal- Or should I replace the second paragraph with a context diff of the constitution text, with the exact changes I want? I don't think there's any lack of formality in your proposed amendment, except that it's not clear from your message that you actually are making this proposal. I would have made it, except: 1. Guy indicated that he didn't see the distinction between second and sponsor significant enough to warrant changing the text, and declined to accept my amendment as friendly. 2. Given that it is an esoteric point of procedure, and that I felt that few people cared about it, I didn't think I could find the support to force the issue as an unfriendly amendment. 3. Although I state my opinion occasionally, and hopefully make good points more often than bad, I am not officially a developer, and thus technically have no standing to propose or vote on resolutions, amendments, etc. So in order to push the issue, I would have to find a developer who felt strongly enough about the issue to officially propose it for me. No one seemed to care, so I didn't look hard for someone. I'd be perfectly happy with your amendment, but shan't second it myself just now, because there's an extra week's delay involved from the point where Guy accepts the amendment (I'd reduce the minimum discussion period). If Guy does accept this amendment I want to submit another (or have Guy incorporate it): After A.1(5) add: 6. The proposer of a resolution may make changes to correct minor errors (for example, typographical errors or inconsistencies) or changes which do not alter the meaning, providing noone objects within 24 hours. In this case the mininum discussion period is not restarted. (This change of the word `seconder' to `sponsor' might well have fallen under this proposed amendment.) Ian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our liberty depends upon the chaos and cacaphony of the unfettered speech the First Amendment protects. -- A.L.A. v. U.S. Dept. of Justice
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
Quoting J.H.M. Dassen Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I'm not aware of any software in slink that must be updated to work with 2.2 properly (with the exception of pcmcia-cs); slink currently runs fine with 2.1.x (which I suspect quite a few developers run). Things like smbfsx that have 2.0 and 2.1 versions will need to be consolidated. (Though that's not a big problem.) Mike Stone
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 02:07:15PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote: On 9 Oct 1998, Samuel Tardieu wrote: Santiago There are a lot of packages that would have to be recompiled Santiago for Linux 2.2. This will take time and a lot of testing. I can see pcmcia (28-Sep-98 is needed) and netutils (so that IPv6 is supported), but not a lot of packages. Well, kernel-package is a single package but it would be surely a lot of work, since there are a lot of new drivers. Actually it should not be that much work if its written to be expanded (And if its not I'm not sure we should be using it in the first place) We should base our distribution in stable software, not in betas. Which is why I asked for another week to see IF we need to re-target, instead of asking for a re-target now.. Maybe we should wait for 2.0.36, not for 2.2. As I said, lets wait another week, and see where things have landed, if 2.0.36 is ready and 2.2.0 is still a bit away then we do 2.0.36, if 2.2.5 is out and looking stable.. Zephaniah E, Hull.. -- 33ca525b2c9f2cd0f9b40ef52e0d64f6 (a truly random sig) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpD0mSk7AYDF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 08:42:57AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: Quoting J.H.M. Dassen Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I'm not aware of any software in slink that must be updated to work with 2.2 properly (with the exception of pcmcia-cs); slink currently runs fine with 2.1.x (which I suspect quite a few developers run). Things like smbfsx that have 2.0 and 2.1 versions will need to be consolidated. (Though that's not a big problem.) Don't forget dhcp* and tleds, and who knows what other little things which WILL come up when 2.2.x is out, ready for it or not.. Zephaniah E, Hull. Mike Stone -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp1NRiURaN6X.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In light of the perl issues (see my last message) and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? No, this would hold the release for at least two more months. . We have several kernel module package that need to be re-packaged. . We have to rework on the sound modules, possibly, I dunno. . We have to rework on the boot-floppies to cope with different and/or more modules etc. . We have to ensure that the new kernel headers won't infect various compilation of programs. . We might need to re-compile/re-package the libc. . We need to include new programs / packages to interfere with new kernel interfaces. . We need to review our documentation wrt the kernel (maybe, I duno) All this can't be done in 6 days. Linux 2.2 is a good candidate for the next unstable to play with. I believe that it will be fun, but I also forsee that there will be problems. I hope our release manager won't jump on that train too quick. Regards, Joey -- No question is too silly to ask, but, of course, some are too silly to answer. -- Perl book pgpCyzcO0yeu8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:05:17PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In light of the perl issues (see my last message) and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? No, this would hold the release for at least two more months. . We have several kernel module package that need to be re-packaged. We have to do that anyways for 2.0.36.. . We have to rework on the sound modules, possibly, I dunno. When did we get sound modules? With 2.2.0 we could actually have some!! . We have to rework on the boot-floppies to cope with different and/or more modules etc. We have to do that anyways for 2.0.36.. . We have to ensure that the new kernel headers won't infect various compilation of programs. I thought that was part of the idea of the glibc 2 header stuff.. . We might need to re-compile/re-package the libc. Nope, works fine here and with countless others.. . We need to include new programs / packages to interfere with new kernel interfaces. We have ipchains in slink at the moment, so we are already leaning in that direction.. . We need to review our documentation wrt the kernel (maybe, I duno) See 2.0.36 All this can't be done in 6 days. I did not ask it to be done in 6 days, I asked that we wait another week so we can see if we need to re-target for 2.2.0, if its not looking like it won't be out in a day or two at the end of this extra week then we need to do nothing, on the other hand if it IS going to be out, then it seems perfectly reasonable that we fully consider (and perhaps vote on) re-targeting at 2.2.x.. Linux 2.2 is a good candidate for the next unstable to play with. I believe that it will be fun, but I also forsee that there will be problems. If its not done for slink, then definitely for 2.2.. (2.2 for 2.2.x hmm) I hope our release manager won't jump on that train too quick. I hope our release manager won't jump on any track without fully considering it.. Zephaniah E, Hull.. Regards, Joey -- No question is too silly to ask, but, of course, some are too silly to answer. -- Perl book pgp1WzMmclavg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
Previously [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which is why I asked for another week to see IF we need to re-target, instead of asking for a re-target now.. Bogus argument. Kernels do not have a set release date, and 2.2 will take a couple of weeks, esp. since there will probably be a couple of pre2.2 kernels as well. 2.0.36 will very likely be finished during the freeze and will not break any existing packages. I hope Brian will allow that one in, especially since it includes a bunch of security fixes and finally has working adaptec drivers. Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgp1IZqeFk1Hk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
Previously [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have to do that anyways for 2.0.36.. Only recompile, to work with 2.1 expect to fix a lot of code.. When did we get sound modules? With 2.2.0 we could actually have some!! shameless plug You did know we have alsa packages, right? And they even work with both 2.0 and 2.1 kernels /plug . We have to rework on the boot-floppies to cope with different and/or more modules etc. We have to do that anyways for 2.0.36.. No, same as with hamm: default to one kernel and supply the sources and images for 2.0.36 as well. . We have to ensure that the new kernel headers won't infect various compilation of programs. I thought that was part of the idea of the glibc 2 header stuff.. Not everything can use that.. remember the hdparm disaster when we switched to 2.0.35 ? Nope, works fine here and with countless others.. and 2.1 broke lots of packages last time I tried it, no to mention I got errors when booting since route works differently now, ipfwadm is replaces by ipchains, etc.. If its not done for slink, then definitely for 2.2.. (2.2 for 2.2.x hmm) That is a whole different thing.. I hope our release manager won't jump on any track without fully considering it.. Remember the beginning/end of trainspotting? :) Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpfZ7McrhH1Y.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: suggestion - AntiVir for Linux
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 04:48:26AM -, Robert Woodcock wrote: Just out of curiosity would anyone be interested in a mcafee virusscan installer package in slink contrib? I have everything created, the only thing I'd have to work on would be upstream upgrades (it currently doesn't handle this at all) and then I'd write an intent to package and upload it. I looked at this yesterday. It appears to be an a.out executable. I don't have a.out/libc4 anymore, and I suspect I'm not alone. Are you aware of a newer version? It would be nice to have a virus scanner on my Linux machine, since I receive a lot of Windoze e-mail attachments and have several Samba shares. Regards, Jeff -- It's time to close windows and open source. Linux is a trademark of Linus Torvalds.
Debian 3.0 and release goals
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- In the release naming thread (I don't know whether it died down already), there was a mention of 3.0 (right after 2.2, for one). Now... I know `we'[1] don't want to set hard release goals anymore. And I agree with that. Someone (can't remember who) a while back mentioned something similar: Define release goals for 3.0, and the release that happens to implement exactly this is automatically named 3.0. This might be confusing if we plan for an upcoming release 2.5 (or whatever), which then happens to become 3.0. But since we don't really do that (we don't think of 2.1, but of slink, right?), it won't really be. When we get close to a implementing the stated release goals, we can hint at it, like The next release has a good chance of being 3.0. (This would need an accompanying explanation on the whys and hows, or a link to such). Of course, this scheme works for major releases (a different X in X.Y) only. Bye, J [1] I'm not a developer, but I'm identifying with Debian's goals 100%... *and* Debian makes even its users feel very much part of the community. This list in particular feels like sitting in the offices at RedHat (for example), listening to shop-talk... - -- Jürgen A. Erhard eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326 MARS: http://members.tripod.com/~Juergen_Erhard/mars_index.html GNU Privacy Guard (http://www.d.shuttle.de/isil/crypt/gnupg.html) No matter how cynical I get, I can't keep up. -- Bruce Schneier -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQEVAwUBNhkqDgIG66LugGzRAQF6jwf/S5muUSSNay97ii2X8c1qFnPHCNT0DIYC yV6csyT20Hm8EwG/zX171DBurkPEMsCxtQFDPOhjvjjVF0DSO+PKphZSbKfFzEie 5qZmGYW25vsiu8y1eOnwthUu1uEqf3VEVtb6bBA9yFCgcjTsyWC9ys57B2a8L1cZ YSAqTCyFM4X1Kc7G2e6CWfsLQuubg/OId38G4YetUkBeaqb/CGWbrdyWxB4a6nxL O4MeCpJhuTvxuz9zqKSgNC/KXanspNwpuYXUSVivkpeJmvLuFDkGXdFhNv5lCX+i P+93yXyvYTahwsCSZHR99en81bcZBS/tp2eM1RT/FCLTS+oDvKaOyg=27 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: suggestion - AntiVir for Linux
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 09:33:49AM -0500, Jeff Noxon wrote: On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 04:48:26AM -, Robert Woodcock wrote: Just out of curiosity would anyone be interested in a mcafee virusscan installer package in slink contrib? I have everything created, the only thing I'd have to work on would be upstream upgrades (it currently doesn't handle this at all) and then I'd write an intent to package and upload it. I looked at this yesterday. It appears to be an a.out executable. I don't have a.out/libc4 anymore, and I suspect I'm not alone. Are you aware of a newer version? It would be nice to have a virus scanner on my Linux machine, since I receive a lot of Windoze e-mail attachments and have several Samba shares. mercury:~$ ldd /usr/lib/neta/uvscan libc.so.5 = /lib/libc.so.5 (0x4000c000) That's what's in ftp://ftp.nai.com/pub/antivirus/unix/linux/nlxb318e.tar. -- Robert Woodcock - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unix and C are the ultimate computer viruses -- Richard Gabriel
Re: Debian 3.0 and release goals
Please check out http://www.debian.org/~joey/goals/index.html or http://www.infodrom.north.de/~joey/Linux/Debian/master/goals/index.html Regards, Joey -- No question is too silly to ask, but, of course, some are too silly to answer. -- Perl book
Re: suggestion - AntiVir for Linux
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 09:33:49AM -0500, Jeff Noxon wrote: On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 04:48:26AM -, Robert Woodcock wrote: Just out of curiosity would anyone be interested in a mcafee virusscan installer package in slink contrib? I have everything created, the only thing I'd have to work on would be upstream upgrades (it currently doesn't handle this at all) and then I'd write an intent to package and upload it. I looked at this yesterday. It appears to be an a.out executable. I don't have a.out/libc4 anymore, and I suspect I'm not alone. Are you aware of a newer version? It would be nice to have a virus scanner on my Linux machine, since I receive a lot of Windoze e-mail attachments and have several Samba shares. I havn't downloaded it yet to look. I did exchange e-mail with a contact at the company...they pointed me to a web page... unfortunatly the english version wasn't done and I don't Speak German just this morning I got another e-mail...told to check the FTP Site and given an FTP URL... I will check it out when I get home. If it is a.out then I think I may e-mail them and let them know that practically noone in the linux world uses it anymore (well ok... I did make an a.out kernel recently...but I have an excuse..I was booting a Sun Sparcstation through the network) maybe ill offer them a Hamm CD ;) -Steve -- /* -- Stephen Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] */ E-mail Bumper Stickers: A FREE America or a Drug-Free America: You can't have both! honk if you Love Linux
Re: suggestion - AntiVir for Linux
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 08:01:05AM -0700, Robert Woodcock wrote: On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 09:33:49AM -0500, Jeff Noxon wrote: On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 04:48:26AM -, Robert Woodcock wrote: Just out of curiosity would anyone be interested in a mcafee virusscan installer package in slink contrib? I have everything created, the only thing I'd have to work on would be upstream upgrades (it currently doesn't handle this at all) and then I'd write an intent to package and upload it. I looked at this yesterday. It appears to be an a.out executable. I don't have a.out/libc4 anymore, and I suspect I'm not alone. Are you aware of a newer version? It would be nice to have a virus scanner on my Linux machine, since I receive a lot of Windoze e-mail attachments and have several Samba shares. mercury:~$ ldd /usr/lib/neta/uvscan libc.so.5 = /lib/libc.so.5 (0x4000c000) That's what's in ftp://ftp.nai.com/pub/antivirus/unix/linux/nlxb318e.tar. Thats a differnt virus scanner than what we were talking about and what I will be packaging (if it turns out I am able...still need to get my hands on it and evauate it) -Steve -- /* -- Stephen Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] */ E-mail Bumper Stickers: A FREE America or a Drug-Free America: You can't have both! honk if you Love Linux
Re: Reverting to Perl 5.004
I suspect that it's in the best interest of the freeze to revert to Perl Thanks. 5.004. I'm currently uploading the 5.004.04-6 release to master's Incoming. I'll file a bug on ftp.debian.org that the 5.005 release should be deleted and the 5.004 release installed. Maybe that's not needed since, right after s/unstable/frozen/ there will be a new unstable which is perfectly the correct place for the new perl package. Okay, great. So, just to make sure I understand the final decision: Perl 5.005 will be replaced in Slink with 5.004. The new version will remain in the next unstable. Correct? Brian ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) --- In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not.
How can tell what priority a bug is?
I maintain cdparanoia, which has bug #23236 filed against it. This is an alpha version of the software, and the bug is that a feature isn't yet implemented. I don't want this to keep this package out of the new release, as its base functionality works extremely well. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious! Thanks, Dale -- + finger for pgp public key -+ | Dale E. Martin | Clifton Labs, Inc. | Senior Computer Engineer| | [EMAIL PROTECTED]|http://www.clifton-labs.com | +--+
Does debian have an official standard scripting language ?
Just like debian has an official standard shell - bash, does debian have an official scripting language ? If so, is it perl, python, etc ? The reason I'm asking is largely questions of disk space - ie minimizing the number of scripting languages installed on a system by writing a package which depends on that scripting language. This disk space may not be an issue though. Just wanted to know... Thanks ! Geoff Brimhall
Re: Does debian have an official standard scripting language ?
On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 02:09:48AM -0700, Geoffrey L. Brimhall wrote: Just like debian has an official standard shell - bash, does debian have an official scripting language ? If so, is it perl, python, etc ? Yes, Bourne Shell :- Bash implements most features of it, afaik. I really wish we had a bit more minimalistic base, but I don't have much time to work on it. Having Perl as necessary is also kind of ugly, IMO. Oh well.. Back to the netwinder... -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
Intent to package gqview
Unless someone else is working on this, I would like to package gqview. It is a DFSG GTK+ based Image browser that supports thumb nails and image viewing. I like it. Small and fast -- even on this p75.
Re: Does debian have an official standard scripting language ?
On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Geoffrey L. Brimhall wrote: Just like debian has an official standard shell - bash, does debian have an official scripting language ? Even if bash is essential, the standard shell is sh, not bash. [ If you look at our shell scripts, most of them are /bin/sh, not /bin/bash ]. If so, is it perl, python, etc ? The reason I'm asking is largely questions of disk space - ie minimizing the number of scripting languages installed on a system by writing a package which depends on that scripting language. This disk space may not be an issue though. Just wanted to know... The ones which are currently guaranteed to be on the system are sh, bash, awk and perl (as well as all the other little ones, sed, ed, etc.), because they are currently essential. You are welcome to use any other scripting language as long as you put the required Depends: line in your package, but using awk or perl has his advantages (being disk space one of them). -- 38e7c67287a4859e04f1e64dc5719a5f (a truly random sig)
Re: Discussion - Proposed Constitution - voting part 2
On 09-Oct-98 Ian Jackson wrote: A.6(5)(iii): This elimination procedure is repeated, moving down ballot papers to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. preferences as required, until one option gets more than half of the `first' preferences. It seems to me to be clear that the intent is that if a ballot has no remaining preferences then it doesn't count when considering which option might have more than half of the `first' preferences. Such a ballot couldn't be said to have a `first' preference any more, surely ? Actually, I've seen the STV method done in such a way that after a ballot loses all it's first preferences it is still counted as a no-preference (ie. as an abstention of sorts) hence my question. I think any questions on this can be settled by president but, as of yet, we don't have president so I thought I'd ask. A.6(8): 8.If a quorum is required, there must be at least that many votes which prefer the winning option to the default option. If there are not then the default option wins after all. For votes requiring a supermajority, the actual number of Yes votes is used when checking whether the quorum has been reached. The winning option here refers to the outcome of steps 1-7, clearly, I've learned, the hard way, that clearly usually doesn't apply to things like this. They turn out to be worm holes to cause problems :( and 8 is intended to _modify_ the outcome. So, if Concorde doesn't produce a clear-cut answer we use STV amongst the remaining options, and then we have a putative `winner'. If this winner didn't actually have enough ballots which prefer it to the default, then the default option is declared the winner. There's nothing saying we should go and restart the ballot counting with STV instead, or something. The Yes. I saw my mistake as I was reading and rereading the constituion. But since nobody commented on the thread, I just let the matter drop instead of correcting my assuptions to the list. = * http://benham.net/index.html * * * -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- ---* *Darren Benham * Version: 3.1 * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * GCS d+(-) s:+ a29 C++$ UL++ P+++$ L++* * * E? W+++$ N+(-) o? K- w+++$(--) O M-- V- PS-- * * Debian Developer * PE++ Y++ PGP++ t+ 5 X R+ !tv b DI+++ D++ * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * G++G+++ e h+ r* y+* * * --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ---* =
[comp.os.linux.announce] COMMERCIAL: Debian User's Guide Second Edition $38.95
Just wondering, Dale, but why didn't you announce this to the Debian lists as well as the c.o.linux.announce? Ben -- Brought to you by the letters M and J and the number 10. XTC versus Adam Ant -- which one will survive? -- They Might Be Giants Debian GNU/Linux -- where do you want to go tomorrow? http://www.debian.org/ I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet and YiffNet IRC as Che_Fox. --- Start of forwarded message --- From: LinuxPress Sales [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Subject: COMMERCIAL: Debian User's Guide Second Edition $38.95 Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:04:35 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- The Debian Linux User's Guide Second Edition + October 7, 1998 For Public Release Linux Press announces The Debian Linux User's Guide. This newly released product is the second major effort at providing a commercial version of Debian GNU/Linux. Linux Press has seen that Debian GNU/Linux has been well received for good reason by the Linux community. Linux Press felt Debian GNU/Linux could be further enhanced by providing comprehensive documentation and technical support. The result is The Debian Linux User's Guide, which includes the following: 250 Page Book titled The Debian Linux User's Guide 2 CD-ROM Debian Official GNU/Linux 2.0 Set 1 CD-ROM with extra files 30 Days of E-mail Technical Support 1. OVERVIEW OF PRODUCT - - --- Here is a summary of what areas are addressed with this book: Introduction Installation Floppy Installation CD-ROM Installation FTP Installation dpkg dselect X11 Installation Networking ppp configuration Compiling the Kernel Building the Kernel Modules What Next? Common UNIX Commands Text Editors The Loop Device Multiple OS Installation Building Packages Files Linux as a Server Arguments Drop in Debian What is Free Software 2. ORDERING INFORMATION - - The price of this package is $38.95. Orders can be placed the following ways: Toll Free in the US -- 888-770-4330 International Ordering --- 707-773-4916 Via FAX -- 707-765-1431 Via E-mail --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Via secured web page - http://www.linuxpress.com Via snail mail --- See our mailing address at the end. Shipping and handling charges for 2-Day service in the U.S. is $9.00 International Shipping and handling charges for U.S. Airmail is $9.00 3. AVAILABILITY - - This product will be available the week of October 19. If you have a Borders bookstore in your area, check with them. You can also check with your favorite Linux reseller as most are stocking this item. 4. PERSONAL USE LICENSE - - Linux Press is offering an HTML version of The Debian Linux User's Guide at www.linuxpress.com You are free to print and use this valuable document for your personal use. Links are included for both the Table of Contents and the Index. The complete book is included online. We are currently updating the HTML document to make it even more user friendly. This will be available October 25. 5. RESELLER INFORMATION - - Linux Press Phone Number: (707) 773-4916 FAX: (707) 765-1431 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Address: http://www.linuxpress.com Mail Address: Linux Press P.O. Box 220 Penngrove, CA 94951 Frank Kasper and Associates Phone Number: (612) 942-0566 FAX: (612) 942-5039 Web Address: http://www.kasper-cdrom.com Mail Address: Frank Kasper Associates, Inc. 7351 Washington Ave. So. Edina, MN 55439 - Linux Press * P.O. Box 220 * Penngrove * CA * 94951 * U.S.A. Toll Free Order: 888-770-4330 International Business: 707-773-4916 FAX: 707-765-1431 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.linuxpress.com - -- This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP. http://www.iki.fi/mjr/cola-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature. Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION. This group is archived at http://www.iki.fi/mjr/linux/cola.html -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBNh3RpFrUI/eHXJZ5AQGKqgP9Hvp0VNJ/i99wBIJRGYATsglUj2yiHcC3 BPUWqbfwr9aXU41LGI9bNxGvlK06mYuyVXxISDDd1sqjH18aWk4ddguTpkoylCTs gnpQ5ZAFKh6IiIG4YMr0m+JJbzL99S81FqGr3fx8G/Mjp6cQ73XLmglyAayHqtn+ BNmB02YrEZk= =xmDz -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- End of forwarded message ---
Re: Does debian have an official standard scripting language ?
*-Geoffrey L. Brimhall [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Just like debian has an official standard shell - bash, does debian have an | official scripting language ? | | If so, is it perl, python, etc ? | | The reason I'm asking is largely questions of disk space - ie minimizing the | number of scripting languages installed on a system by writing a package which | depends on that scripting language. This has been discussed, but not settled. Some love perl, some love pyhton, some love both and some love none. I don't think there will ever be a standard scripting language, but I guess perl is closest at the moment, with perl-base being in the base system and all. -- ...Unix, MS-DOS, and MS Windows (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly). (Matt Welsh) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [-: .elOle. :-] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perl
I installed perl 5.005, but I understand that it has been revoked and all packages in slink shall be built against perl 5.004, is that so? Now where do I find 004? There's no perl in ftp.debian.org and ftp.de.debian.org has 005. thanks -- Eschew obfuscation(go on; look them both up) (Brian White) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [-: .elOle. :-] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How can tell what priority a bug is?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dale E. Martin) writes: I maintain cdparanoia, which has bug #23236 filed against it. This is an alpha version of the software, and the bug is that a feature isn't yet implemented. I don't want this to keep this package out of the new release, as its base functionality works extremely well. Sorry if I'm missing something obvious! You are. For one, the bug is only of normal severity. Only bugs of severity Important or greater will keep it out of the stable distribution. Moreover, if it's a bug in the upstream software, its not officially your duty to fix it. You can forward the bug report to the upstream maintainers and mark the bug as forwarded. You should read the developers-reference materials and /usr/doc/debian/bug* .A. P. [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/
Intent to package hp2pbm
Greetings! The hp2pbm utility is implicitly called by mgetty-fax's faxspool when given a HP PCL file. Currently, this results in an error on Debian. I can't seem to find a license stipulation in the sources; I'm beginning to think its public domain, and am attempting to contact the author to clarify. I'm thinking it would give a simple way for people using mgetty-fax to use a 'magicfilter' filter as a frontend to faxspool to send a variety of formats via fax. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Camm Maguire == The earth is one country, and mankind its citizens. Baha'u'llah
X window logo
Whenever you start a program running under X11, the windows created usually have the little 'X' logo in the upper left hand corner. If you are running RedHat linux however, the upper left hand corner of the windows contains the RedHat logo (head with a red hat). Why can't it (under Debian) have the blue eyed penguin logo? _ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: yagirc bugs - new maintainer or not?
If you don't get the original volunteer, I'll take it over. I like and use yagirc so I've got a stake in it being kept up-to-date. On 08-Oct-98 David Welton wrote: I recall someone wanting to take over yagirc after I offered it up. Is this person still interested? They ought to upload a new, up to date version with someo of these bugs fixed. Otherwise, I'll try and do it. = * http://benham.net/index.html * * * -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- ---* *Darren Benham * Version: 3.1 * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * GCS d+(-) s:+ a29 C++$ UL++ P+++$ L++* * * E? W+++$ N+(-) o? K- w+++$(--) O M-- V- PS-- * * Debian Developer * PE++ Y++ PGP++ t+ 5 X R+ !tv b DI+++ D++ * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * G++G+++ e h+ r* y+* * * --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ---* =
Re: Perl 5.005.02
[ perl5.005_02's default library is now /usr/lib/perl5/perl5.005,
and might change with 5.006, etc.]
Any idea how to handle this properly ? Maybe we need a sort of perl
policy : package will have to install file under /usr/lib/perl5/debian
which would be a symlink to the current perl version ? But
this does not solve all problems... Better idea ?
Yes. Perl itself knows where it is installed. Install .pm things into
$Config{'privlib'}. From the shell command line, you can get this
same information with /usr/bin/perl -V:privlib.
Andy Dougherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dept. of Physics
Lafayette College, Easton PA 18042
Re: Slashdot on the KDE stance
On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 10:53:23PM +0200, Francesco Tapparo wrote: Slashdot has posted an article about the decision to remove the KDE binaries right now. Could someone please post the article or at least the complete URL? Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: another problem maybe relate to lesstiffg
On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 03:01:58PM -0400, Steve Dunham wrote: Yup, I just noticed that my package, amaya, no longer works. Layout problems: the widget holding the page doesn't show up. I think we might need a newer (or older) version of lesstif in slink. I absolutely agree. Did anyone already report this as a bug? Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: Slashdot on the KDE stance
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:39:09PM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote: On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 10:53:23PM +0200, Francesco Tapparo wrote: Slashdot has posted an article about the decision to remove the KDE binaries right now. Could someone please post the article or at least the complete URL? http://slashdot.org - it's a pretty good source of Linux news. The comments have degraded though, don't bother with them.. Used to be people like Alan Cox occasionally posted.. no more (afaik). -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
dpkg-dev: dpkg-shlibdeps doesn't work within fakeroot
Package: dpkg-dev Version: 1.4.0.30 $ dpkg-shlibdeps src/fortify; cat debian/substvars shlibs:Depends=libc6 (= 2.0.7u) $ fakeroot dpkg-shlibdeps src/fortify; cat debian/substvars shlibs:Depends=libc6, libc6 (= 2.0.7u) ^ ^ :-? Ideas?? PS: libtrick's fakeroot doesn't help at all, it kills rm :-( Regards, -- Roberto Lumbreras [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgp 143BE391 Lander Internet, Madrid-Spain-UE; http://www.lander.es
Re: slashdot
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Debian Private [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 11:49 AM Subject: Re: slashdot John Lapeyre writes: Something that came up in the discussion. Does anyone have any idea what the U.S. legal system (or german or uruguayan for that matter) might think about the GPL and static vs. dynamic linking ,etc. I think that the courts would permit dynamic linking to non-free libraries, but the point is controversial and I don't want to argue it here. You might have to write your own header files. Better yet, what if Harmony was written to be binary compatable with Qt, you could compile with Harmony, it wouldn't work well, till harmony implemented all of Qt's class's, but you could just drop Qt in, and you'd have a working system. I've essentially come to the opinion that the GPL has no control over dynamic linking b/c it's something a user does in the privacy of his own home. Shaya
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:05:17PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: Linux 2.2 is a good candidate for the next unstable to play with. I believe that it will be fun, but I also forsee that there will be problems. I hope our release manager won't jump on that train too quick. Agreed. There are still problems in 2.1.x that NEED to be adressed and they won't happen in a week or even two weeks. Save it for the next release which could be Debian 3.0 with full apt and 2.2.x kernel, among other things. (Provided all that works) pgpNvdrJCvyNq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:18:46PM +0200, Samuel Tardieu wrote: I do run 2.1.124 on my laptop and am really impressed by this kernel. It uses less memory and runs smoother under heavy load than any kernel I've ever used. I have to agree. 124 is great on my notebook too. I'm just compiling 125. Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 06:40:54AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In light of the perl issues (see my last message) and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? Wouldn't it be better to just supply 2.2.0 and not make it the default kernel? It will take some weeks until it is really stable I think. Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:05:17PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote: No, this would hold the release for at least two more months. Joey, that's exaggerated by a lot. But I agree with your reasoning- . We have several kernel module package that need to be re-packaged. . We have to rework on the sound modules, possibly, I dunno. We won't have to if we provide both kernels. We just would also add two packages for those modules compiled for both. . We have to rework on the boot-floppies to cope with different and/or more modules etc. Not needed under my approach. . We have to ensure that the new kernel headers won't infect various compilation of programs. Shouldn't be much of a problem. . We might need to re-compile/re-package the libc. No. . We need to include new programs / packages to interfere with new kernel interfaces. Don't we have them already? Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: When will the freeze happen ???
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:02:32PM +0200, Gregor Hoffleit wrote: Sorry, maybe I'm deaf or blind or my mail spool went to /dev/null, but I never saw a concrete date for the freeze in the last months. Can somebody enlighten me when it will happen ? I doubt it's your fault. I never saw it either, except that I remember a discussion three months ago. IMO the date should be published on devel or private about two weeks before the date. Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:20:34PM +0200, Samuel Tardieu wrote: Santiago There are a lot of packages that would have to be recompiled Santiago for Linux 2.2. This will take time and a lot of testing. I can see pcmcia (28-Sep-98 is needed) and netutils (so that IPv6 is supported), but not a lot of packages. But some cannot be ported at the moment: iBCS! Also, from a marketing point of view, it would be great to have the first distribution using Linux 2.2 :-) Imagine the stickers on the CDs :) This can be done also if we provide 2.2 while keeping 2.0.35 the default. Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: Intent to package gqview
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 01:10:36PM -0400, Shaleh wrote: Unless someone else is working on this, I would like to package gqview. It is a DFSG GTK+ based Image browser that supports thumb nails and image viewing. I like it. Small and fast -- even on this p75. Great. Will you get it into slink before the freeze? Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: X window logo
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 11:16:27AM -0700, Kenneth Scharf wrote: Whenever you start a program running under X11, the windows created usually have the little 'X' logo in the upper left hand corner. If you are running RedHat linux however, the upper left hand corner of the windows contains the RedHat logo (head with a red hat). Why can't it (under Debian) have the blue eyed penguin logo? Great idea IMO. Can we get that into slink? Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: Slashdot on the KDE stance
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 11:40:04AM -0700, David Welton wrote: http://slashdot.org - it's a pretty good source of Linux news. The comments have degraded though, don't bother with them.. Used to be people like Alan Cox occasionally posted.. no more (afaik). Yes, I know that. I was hoping for the full URL to not have to search slashdor myself. Or is it on the main page? Michael -- Dr. Michael Meskes | Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go SF49ers! Senior-Consultant | business: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Go Rhein Fire! Mummert+Partner | private: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| Use Debian Unternehmensberatung AG | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| GNU/Linux!
Re: The freeze and IMMINENT 2.2.0p1!!
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 09:06:30PM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote: On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 06:40:54AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In light of the perl issues (see my last message) and the message Linus just sent off to linux-kernel about 2.1.125 and 2.2.0p1 could the freeze be pushed back a week to see if we should QUICKLY re-target slink towards 2.2.0? Wouldn't it be better to just supply 2.2.0 and not make it the default kernel? It will take some weeks until it is really stable I think. Right, this sounds like the most reasonable course of action. We are supplying 2.2.0, but please be aware that it may cause problems with your system, and some packages may not work with it. Ciao, -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
Re: X window logo
*-Kenneth Scharf [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Whenever you start a program running under X11, the windows created | usually have the little 'X' logo in the upper left hand corner. If | you are running RedHat linux however, the upper left hand corner of | the windows contains the RedHat logo (head with a red hat). Why can't | it (under Debian) have the blue eyed penguin logo? If I understand you correctly, this is up to each windowmanager. Some wms can't have a penguin in the corner, but I see no harm in changing the default for those that can. It should, however be up to the maintainer of each wm. -- The only way tcsh rocks is when the rocks are attached to it's feet in the deepest part of a very deep lake. (Linus Torvalds) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [-: .elOle. :-] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: yagirc bugs - new maintainer or not?
*-Darren Benham [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | If you don't get the original volunteer, I'll take it over. I like and use | yagirc so I've got a stake in it being kept up-to-date. I'm here, working on 0.66 as we speak. This might be a good time to ask a question. yagirc can now be built with gnome interface or text interface. Should I make two packages, include both in one package or just drop the non-gui? -- A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee to theorems (Martin Schulze) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [-: .elOle. :-] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: yagirc bugs - new maintainer or not?
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 09:14:14PM +0200, Ole J. Tetlie wrote: *-Darren Benham [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | If you don't get the original volunteer, I'll take it over. I like and use | yagirc so I've got a stake in it being kept up-to-date. I'm here, working on 0.66 as we speak. This might be a good time to ask a question. yagirc can now be built with gnome interface or text interface. Should I make two packages, include both in one package or just drop the non-gui? IIRC, the non-gui one is more a proof of concept, and, at least for now, I think that most users of yagirc are interested in the GUI. Non-gui people are most likely using epic, or something similiar:- Ciao, -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org
Re: X window logo
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 11:16:27AM -0700, Kenneth Scharf wrote: Whenever you start a program running under X11, the windows created usually have the little 'X' logo in the upper left hand corner. If you are running RedHat linux however, the upper left hand corner of the windows contains the RedHat logo (head with a red hat). Why can't it (under Debian) have the blue eyed penguin logo? Just because Red Hat sees the need to urinate all over everything with their logo doesn't mean we should. Nevertheless, this kind of thing is easily configurable with the window manager, so if you want to do it for your own machine(s), there's nothing to stop you. -- G. Branden Robinson | The errors of great men are venerable Purdue University | because they are more fruitful than the [EMAIL PROTECTED] | truths of little men. http://www.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | -- Friedrich Nietzsche pgptPQGXQh8Vf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: slashdot
On Fri, Oct 09, 1998 at 03:09:05PM -0400, Shaya Potter wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Debian Private [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 11:49 AM Subject: Re: slashdot John Lapeyre writes: Something that came up in the discussion. Does anyone have any idea what the U.S. legal system (or german or uruguayan for that matter) might think about the GPL and static vs. dynamic linking ,etc. I think that the courts would permit dynamic linking to non-free libraries, but the point is controversial and I don't want to argue it here. You might have to write your own header files. Better yet, what if Harmony was written to be binary compatable with Qt, you could compile with Harmony, it wouldn't work well, till harmony implemented all of Qt's class's, but you could just drop Qt in, and you'd have a working system. I've essentially come to the opinion that the GPL has no control over dynamic linking b/c it's something a user does in the privacy of his own home. I agree in the privacy of your computer you can do ANYTHING YOU WANT You can link code against any library...you can dissassemble proprietary code...you can (as a fututre licence I plan to use will state explicitly) print it out and shove the hardcopy in obcene places (NOTE: this may still be illegal in some states depending on what obcene place you stick it - check your local laws and ordinances) personally ive come to the opinion that federal and state law have no control on anything I do in the privacy of my own home.. they just simply can't The GPL does NOT say you can't link it...it ONLY specifies what requirements you MUST meet to distribute it. (I guess in that way the GPL is allot more realistic than many laws ;) ) -Steve -- /* -- Stephen Carpenter [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] */ E-mail Bumper Stickers: A FREE America or a Drug-Free America: You can't have both! honk if you Love Linux
I seem to no longer be a maintainer...
I'm looking for myself in the bug database and find that I'm not on the list. I think I had a bug filed against one of my packages, but I cannot find it, or myself in the database. Huh?
