Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 00:23:56 schrieb Dale: I jusr recently copied my system using cp -av and it does have a -a option. It's in my man page as well. I have not even heard of gcp so I don't think I have ever used it. Yes, you did. On Linux cp _is_ gcp (GNU cp). % LANG= cp --version cp (GNU coreutils) 6.12 Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 00:23:56 schrieb Dale: I jusr recently copied my system using cp -av and it does have a -a option. It's in my man page as well. I have not even heard of gcp so I don't think I have ever used it. Yes, you did. On Linux cp _is_ gcp (GNU cp). % LANG= cp --version cp (GNU coreutils) 6.12 Bye... Dirk I thought gcp was the command, so I stand corrected on that part at least. I even thought maybe it was a GUI cp or something. I was curious as to how that would work. scratches head Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 09:29:56 schrieb Dale: I thought gcp was the command That depends on the platform. If you install it from an OpenPKG.org RPM package for example, you'll get it as cp as well as gcp. And AFAIK the BSD's install all the GNU tools with a g prefix to distinguish them from their own versions. Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Dale wrote: D I thought gcp was the command, so I stand corrected on that part at least. I even thought maybe it was a GUI cp or something. I was curious as to how that would work. scratches head LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm - is there really such a thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU. regards Mark P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying, but for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is probably lost.
[gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Hi gentoo-user, The previous week I asked a little something about some gnome problems and was surprised that while other mails were getting responses within hours, even minutes, of posting, I had posted and reposted the same message three times over the span of a week - to no joy. I figured that the volume of the mailing list made it highly improbable for there to be not even 1 answer to what seems to be a well-formed question, so a problem was at hand. Thinking it had to do with mailing list subscription issues (I've changed emails in the past), I unsubscribed, resubscribed and reposted, to no avail. On perhaps my third or fourth repost, I found a shocking answer: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Nicolas Sebrecht nicolas.s-...@lapostes.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:06:26PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: er, anyone? You may try by sending a mail using the text format instead of the HTML one. I don't read more than one line when it's written in HTML. I suspect that a lot of contributors do the same here. Please, conform to the netiquette. That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told, years later, that wearing shoes there meant I'm not serious, so please ignore my opinions.. The funny thing is, I have been subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since I usually got one or two answers. I would like to express must-needed-to-be-expressed frustration, as there is place for it, and to make aware that that is a serious problem. I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point where it is almost invisible. Here's the gentoo mailing lists list for reference: http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml Here's what the mlmm welcome email looks like === snip Welcome! You have been subscribed to the gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailinglist. To unsubscribe send a message to: gentoo-user+unsubscr...@lists.gentoo.org And for help send a message to: gentoo-user+h...@lists.gentoo.org === /snip And of course the confirmation email === snip i, this is the mlmmj program managing the mailinglist gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org To confirm you want the address f...@doman added to this list, please send a reply to gentoo-user+confsub-gibberishcode-foo=dom...@lists.gentoo.org This confirmation serves two purposes. It tests that mail can be sent to your address. Secondly it makes sure someone else did not try and subscribe your email address without your permission. Your mailer may automatically reply to the confirmation address when you hit the reply button. The subject and the body of the mail can be anything. === /snip This is a _community-wide_bug_, if ever there was a place to file it. I don't recall it being rude to send html emails anywhere else without it appearing in bold letters. Had I known, I would have always used plain formatting. If the memo appears somewhere, it might have to do with some transient step of the subscription process. That does make it hard to find now that I'm looking for it. What's up with html e-mails, btw? Most public emails send html e-mail by default, and one imagines that there would be a wide range of capabilities from the readers in the portage tree... (btw, I'm already having leads on my GNOME problem, something about some packages coming from overlays and some packages coming from portage, perhaps some kind of mismatch).
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Mark Kirkwood mar...@paradise.net.nzwrote: Dale wrote: D I thought gcp was the command, so I stand corrected on that part at least. I even thought maybe it was a GUI cp or something. I was curious as to how that would work. scratches head LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm - is there really such a thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU. regards Mark P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying, but for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is probably lost. Joerg is obviously adverting the program star. Haha
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Mark David Dumlao schrieb: [...] If the memo appears somewhere, it might have to do with some transient step of the subscription process. That does make it hard to find now that I'm looking for it. What's up with html e-mails, btw? Most public emails send html e-mail by default, and one imagines that there would be a wide range of capabilities from the readers in the portage tree... I'll just link to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_e-mail Concerning the missing netiquette: It no issue of the mailing list providers, no official policy. It's rather personal preference (or ability) of the members of this list. There are various reasons why it is generally disliked to use HTML-emails: - They unnecessarily make messages larger (especially if you also provide a plain text variant). - Users of mutt and other text mail readers will most likely have to filter your HTML. - There are security concerns with spam, phishing and so on. Therefore many of us never even take a look at the HTML-version of a mail (a simple mail reader setting). - There are accessibility concerns. - They are usually just unnecessary (unless you need tables or such alike in which case I would send them as a separate HTML-part and use the plain text part to explain why you need it). HTH signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?
On Saturday 20 December 2008 20:53:48 Mark Knecht wrote: I did uncomment lines in /etc/cups/mime.convs and mime.types as per the numerous wikis around on configuring cups. If you need the specific lines let me know but all the wikis say to do it. That would be helpful - thanks. Off-list might be best. Thanks also for the cups config files. I can't think of what else to suggest at this point but ... It looks as though the problem is in network access. I'm going to start delving into snmp and ldap to see if I can find it. I'll start a new thread then, as this is getting away from the subject. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote: snip That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told, years later, that wearing shoes there meant I'm not serious, so please ignore my opinions.. The funny thing is, I have been subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since I usually got one or two answers. I would like to express must-needed-to-be-expressed frustration, as there is place for it, and to make aware that that is a serious problem. I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point where it is almost invisible. snip This is a _community-wide_bug_, if ever there was a place to file it. I don't recall it being rude to send html emails anywhere else without it appearing in bold letters. Had I known, I would have always used plain formatting. snip almost all linux mailing lists - and almost all technical mailing lists have a no-html rule. If you decide that fance formating is more important than readership, you are on your own. Also every month is a lenghty thread where people tell someone to stop using html. You must have skipped that threads.
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 10:42:12 schrieb Dake Wang: Joerg is obviously adverting the program star. Haha Sure. I'd do the same if had written it. Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
btw, it is not about capabilities - it is about willingness. Most people are not willing to deal with the crap that is html-emails. They are no good. They are huge, they are risky, they make everything harder. And no-html is the norm for almost every mailing list (except maybe outlook- express-fanclub and aol-users).
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: I have another question, is the star command on the CD? If it is not, then the point of using star is mute. I know I boot from the Gentoo CD, mount my partitions and then copy it over. If the command is not on the CD, then what? None of this matters anyway. If it is not on the CD, you should complain to the creators of the CD. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
[gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....
Ok, so I was using the 2006 profile (amd64) util I started to have errors in my emerge. So I followed the doc to upgrade my profile to a 2008 profile (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-upgrading.xml). and at some point, I need to either select to support unicode or not. Not being too bothered (and mostly because I do not want to end up having to rebuild the whole machine), I decided to follow the non-unicode route. At some point, I then need to issue an emerge -a baselayout, and this is where I am stuck: # emerge -p baselayout These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ] sys-devel/automake-1.10.1-r1 [1.10] [ebuild U ] sys-apps/sysvinit-2.86-r10 [2.86] [ebuild N] app-arch/lzma-utils-4.32.7 USE=-nocxx [ebuild U ] sys-apps/findutils-4.4.0 [4.1.20-r1] [ebuild N] sys-apps/attr-2.4.41 USE=nls [ebuild N] virtual/init-0 [ebuild N] sys-apps/acl-2.2.47 USE=nls (-nfs) [ebuild U ] sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2 [6.4] USE=acl* -vanilla% -xattr% [ebuild U ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.11.1 [1.11.13-r1] [ebuild U ] sys-apps/module-init-tools-3.4 [3.0-r2] USE=-old-linux% [blocks B ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.13 (is blocking sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2) So anyone having an idea on how to pass this step is welcome. Thanks JM
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Joerg Schilling wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: I have another question, is the star command on the CD? If it is not, then the point of using star is mute. I know I boot from the Gentoo CD, mount my partitions and then copy it over. If the command is not on the CD, then what? None of this matters anyway. If it is not on the CD, you should complain to the creators of the CD. Jörg Thing is, what is on the CD works for me. I been using cp for a long time and unless it stops working, I don't plan to switch. My current mouse trap catches my mice so why get a new mouse trap and have to learn how to use the new one? I hate when they snap my fingers too. lol It feels better when it stops hurting tho. :/ According to other posts, you wrote the program. Why not talk to the people that make the CD and make your points on why it should be included? If they are valid then maybe they will. If not, life goes on. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Thing is, what is on the CD works for me. I been using cp for a long time and unless it stops working, I don't plan to switch. My current Didn't you complain about gcp? According to other posts, you wrote the program. Why not talk to the people that make the CD and make your points on why it should be included? If they are valid then maybe they will. If not, life goes on. AFAIR, the people who cretaed this CD have not been mentioned. But people who work on a Life CD should know the oldest free TAR implementation and people who use GNU tar should know about the various bugs in GNU tar and why it makes sense to avoid GNU tar if you know that star is available. Star is written and maintained by the same person since 27 years while GNU tar is the first victim of the social deficits of RMS. RMS did cause the GNU tar maintainers to run away three times because they could not stand the paternalism from RMS. GNU tar does not support any Linux specific feature altough it would be needed, star does support Linux specific features. The only explanation I see for GNU tar usually being the only tar on Linux is that there are scripts that depend on Bugs in GNU tar. Sysadmins of bigger sites prefer star for many tasks that could also be done by other software. If you like to reduce the time to work on some tasks, you first need to spend some hours to learn about the features in star. In total you save time I know it was not you but another person did mention some text written by a person called fele who has no clue. Discussing the way to do work best cannot be based on people who have no clue and starting to use new software always takes some time. People who know me know that I am always happy to help explaining how to use my software but I am doing this only if there is interest. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Mark Kirkwood mar...@paradise.net.nz wrote: LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm - is there really such a thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU. Which is a problem as the GNU tools do not support Linux specific features. For this reason, GNU cp cannot copy all file metadata on Linux It seems that people don't like me because I do write portable software that supports Linux specific features and that allow to do better than software that is unaware of platform specific features. P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying, but for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is probably lost. If you are on Solaris, things are even more obscure as people sometimes incorrectly set up their PATH and by accident call the GNU tools that do not support Solaris specific features. I thought that people should be interested in learning that it is bad to give advise based on generic third party tools without telling that the tool is neither a local tool nor the generic UNIX tool. Gcp is a third party tool on Linux and there is no generic Linux cp ;-) Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Joerg Schilling wrote: Mark Kirkwood mar...@paradise.net.nz wrote: LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm - is there really such a thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU. Which is a problem as the GNU tools do not support Linux specific features. For this reason, GNU cp cannot copy all file metadata on Linux and which data is not copied? I thought that people should be interested in learning that it is bad to give advise based on generic third party tools without telling that the tool is neither a local tool nor the generic UNIX tool. Gcp is a third party tool on Linux and there is no generic Linux cp ;-) oh really? and which cp is the native cp on linux? a little hint: GNU/LInux
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: and which data is not copied? ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If you use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them separately or use star or rsync. Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
On Sunday 21 December 2008 14:20:49 Joerg Schilling wrote: Mark Kirkwood mar...@paradise.net.nz wrote: LOL - Joerg was just making a point that GNU variant of cp is a little different from the 'standard' UNIX (hmm - is there really such a thing?) version of cp. Err, on this list the point is a little oblique to say the least - since all Linux userland is GNU. Which is a problem as the GNU tools do not support Linux specific features. For this reason, GNU cp cannot copy all file metadata on Linux It seems that people don't like me because I do write portable software that supports Linux specific features and that allow to do better than software that is unaware of platform specific features. You are running into the age-old battle between being provably correct and some other party being merely good enough Unfortunately in human societies it's almost always the latter that seems to win P.s : As a Freebsd desktop user myself, I can get what Joerg is saying, but for the majority of purely Linux users on this list, the point is probably lost. If you are on Solaris, things are even more obscure as people sometimes incorrectly set up their PATH and by accident call the GNU tools that do not support Solaris specific features. I thought that people should be interested in learning that it is bad to give advise based on generic third party tools without telling that the tool is neither a local tool nor the generic UNIX tool. Gcp is a third party tool on Linux and there is no generic Linux cp ;-) There is indeed no native Linux tools, because Linux is just a kernel. The userland is whatever the user decides to put on the machine; talking about Linux behaviour is usually a nonsensical statement as there is no such thing. What does exist is GNU userland behaviour and that at least is mostly standardized. But put a BusyBox userland on atop a Linux kernel and you get a different set of behaviours I find it makes much more sense to not mention the OS much, rather state the userland in use and code to that -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
On Sunday 21 December 2008 14:58:24 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: oh really? and which cp is the native cp on linux? a little hint: GNU/LInux Wrong. Native cp on Linux is whatever the user decided to install, or whatever the distro bundled if the user left it at default. The fact that the majority of distros ship GNU does not make a standard (perhaps a majority de-facto standard, which is seldom of much use as a definition). Most distros can have BusyBox installed on them, that certainly does not give GNU behaviour -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 21 December 2008 14:58:24 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: oh really? and which cp is the native cp on linux? a little hint: GNU/LInux Wrong. Native cp on Linux is whatever the user decided to install, or whatever the distro bundled if the user left it at default. Wrong: a natice cp in Linux would support to copy all meta data that is supported on Linux. A native cp does not exist on Linux. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: and which data is not copied? ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If you use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them separately or use star or rsync. Bye... Dirk ah, good to know - since I use neither, I have never run in any problems. btw, what are the advantages of these on a single user system?
[gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?
Hi, When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that way. Does anybody know how to solve it? Thanks in advance. Best, Damian.
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
On Sunday 21 December 2008 15:52:35 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: and which data is not copied? ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If you use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them separately or use star or rsync. Bye... Dirk ah, good to know - since I use neither, I have never run in any problems. btw, what are the advantages of these on a single user system? I don't believe there are any, except perhaps some obscure edge cases[1]. Every use for ACLs and extended attributes I've ever seen reduces down to the sysadmin gaining finer control over what other people can and cannot do on his system. On a single user work-station, the user IS the sysadmin, so the point usually becomes moot. [1] For example, one might want a flag that can be set and unset on a file depending on the last action taken by some specific software. An archive attribute used by backup software would be the most well-known example. But this is certainly not the general case. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Volker Armin Hemmann schrieb: On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Sonntag, 21. Dezember 2008 13:58:24 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann: and which data is not copied? ACLs and extended attributes. Still not! The same is true for GNU tar. If you use ACLs or extended attributes you have to either take care of them separately or use star or rsync. Bye... Dirk ah, good to know - since I use neither, I have never run in any problems. btw, what are the advantages of these on a single user system? The only (more or less common) software I know which states that it runs better with extended attributes is Beagle. There ought to be some performance benefits but I've never verified it. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?
On Sunday 21 December 2008 16:04:34 damian wrote: Hi, When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that way. Does anybody know how to solve it? Sounds like wake up from usb and wake up on lan is working. Either that or your devices did not go to sleep properly and are still awake. Do you get any hits from Google using those terms or similar ones? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
On Sun, 2008-12-21 at 06:34 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Nikos Chantziaras wrote: [...] The reason is that KDE4 is a new product and has nothing to do with KDE3 other than the name. And another reason is the problem I'm describing in this very thread which should have not been a problem if KDE4 had its own tree. Now I'm required to have non-straightforward voodoo performed to get things right just because the devs made a wrong decision. That's what SLOTS are fore. KDE4 is in it's own slot and can be installed instead of/in addition to KDE 3.5. Putting a package in a different SLOT is effectively putting it i it's own tree. $ emerge -p kde-base/kde-meta:3.5 [...] [ebuild N] kde-base/kdepim-wizards-3.5.10 USE=-debug [ebuild N] kde-base/karm-3.5.10 USE=-debug [ebuild N] kde-base/kontact-specialdates-3.5.10 USE=-debug [ebuild N] kde-base/kdepim-meta-3.5.10 USE=-pda [ebuild N] kde-base/kde-meta-3.5.10 USE=nls -accessibility $ emerge -p kde-base/kde-meta:4.1 [...] [ebuild N] kde-base/krunner-4.1.3 USE=opengl -debug -kdeprefix -xcomposite -xscreensaver [ebuild N] kde-base/kdepim-meta-4.1.3 [ebuild N] kde-base/kdebase-startkde-4.1.3 USE=-kdeprefix [ebuild N] kde-base/kdebase-meta-4.1.3 [ebuild N] kde-base/kde-meta-4.1.3 USE=-accessibility What kind of voodoo is that? In the past, Gentoo devs have spend a lot of time and effort moving split package trees under one tree (e.g. PHP). I don't see them going backwards any time soon. Another problem, this time not technical. I just don't want many of those packages in my world file. I want to use depclean and have those packages removed when the package that depends on them is also removed. The depclean feature just got useless for those packages. By definition, --depclean doesn't remove anything in the world file (or its dependencies). If you want something removed don't put it in the world file (or put something that depends on it in your world file). *You* are the controller of your world file. Nothing gets put there without your specifying so. Anyone still thinks it was a good idea to have KDE4 use the same tree with KDE3? This is was clearly a wrong decision. Workarounds are welcome. I don't think you need a work-around, just to understand how portage works. A (re-)read of the man pages should help. -a
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
On Saturday 20 December 2008 14:35:13 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Saturday 20 December 2008 11:53:05 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: You can start by giving the relevant information, like what exactly related to kde is in world?. Chances are you only have KDE there, and emerge will probably want to nuke all but the latest SLOT. Common problems with KDE: Put 'kdeprefix' in USE and rebuild Put KDE:3.5 in world and recheck. This last one often needs to be redone recursively to get everything in world that needs to be there. I've heard that autounmask helps with this kdeprefix has nothing to do with KDE3. It's not needed. It's only needed to have many KDE4 versions at the same time. That's not true. Yes it is. http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml#doc_chap3 This restriction does not apply to KDE 3.5 [...]. You can have a non-kdeprefix version of KDE 4.1, KDE 3.5 and a live version of KDE installed on the same system. kdeprefix is *only* for multiple KDE 4 installations. Now go back and read my post again. I'm not talking about what the docs are talking about. I'm talking about kde-3* being installed into /usr/kde/3.5 and KDE-4 being installed into /usr/ and the resulting mess that happens when you get LDPATH, PATH and various other env vars set up wrong when you start a session. With USE=-kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/ With USE=kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/kde/4.x Yes, and KDE3 is *always* installed in /usr/kde/3.5 no matter what. Therefore, kdeprefix is totally irrelevant here. No it is not, and you have not read my post properly. I'm not talking about the *installation* of kde-3.5 interfering with KDE-4, I'm talking about run time. I'm saying that KDE-4 co-existing with kde-3.5 is so much easier if KDE-4 is installed into /usr/kde. The net result, when co-installed with kde-3.x, is that your various *PATH variables will always have 3 before 4 or vice-versa. Which is a major pita trying to get 3 and 4 to co-exist. Try it sometime, and watch KDE-4 try to read KDE-3's config and data files. Or have KDE-4 launch konqueror-4 and always get it right every time. Has nothing to do with kdeprefix :P See above. There's only one sane way to install KDE on gentoo - always use SLOTs, always put every version in it's own directory in /usr/kde/, always add the relevant directories to PATH | LDPATH | etc at start-up. The other option is to have one, and only one, kde version at any time. You're misinformed, I think. For the reasons above :) I'll try the KDE:3.5 thingy. I wonder though why the heck I have to do this. KDE4 should have been put in its own tree. Well that's your opinion, you are entitled to it. The KDE devs don't agree though, and their three of a kind trumps your two pairs. If you are going to assert that KDE-4 SHOULD be in it's own tree, then you are going to have to present a sane argument for why, and for why the existing decision is incorrect. Just saying something should be doesn't cut the mustard in this case. The reason is that KDE4 is a new product and has nothing to do with KDE3 other than the name. And another reason is the problem I'm describing in this very thread which should have not been a problem if KDE4 had its own tree. Now I'm required to have non-straightforward voodoo performed to get things right just because the devs made a wrong decision. It would *still* be a problem. The konqueror binary is called konqueror on-disk in 3.5 and 4. If you don't set up the environment correctly, which one is going to be launched? It makes much more sense to install all versions of all DEs calling themselves KDE the same way if you have two or more of them installed. If you only have KDE-4 and do not have KDE-3*, then elect to USE kdeprefix any way that suits your needs. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?
Hi Alan, On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 21 December 2008 16:04:34 damian wrote: Hi, When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that way. Does anybody know how to solve it? Sounds like wake up from usb and wake up on lan is working. Either that or your devices did not go to sleep properly and are still awake. Do you get any hits from Google using those terms or similar ones? No luck so far :(. I'll keep on looking. Best, Damian.
[gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
I have a problem with my gentoo system I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check error on a number of packages. After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is to recompile glibc and gcc. Unfortunately, when I try to compile glibc, I get the same sanity check error. Catch 22. Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'? Thanks Jeff
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Jeff Cranmer schrieb: I have a problem with my gentoo system I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check error on a number of packages. After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is to recompile glibc and gcc. Unfortunately, when I try to compile glibc, I get the same sanity check error. Catch 22. Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'? Thanks Jeff Can you provide some more information please? Logs etc? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:52:11 am Jeff Cranmer wrote:
On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:11:59 am Justin wrote:
Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
I have a problem with my gentoo system
I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails
sanity check error on a number of packages.
After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is
to recompile glibc and gcc. Unfortunately, when I try to compile
glibc, I get the same sanity check error. Catch 22.
Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'?
Thanks
Jeff
Can you provide some more information please? Logs etc?
Here is the end of the output.
checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89...
unsupported checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
configure: error: C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
See `config.log' for more details.
*
* ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 49: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 179: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 187: Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 120: Called
glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
* src_compile.eblit, line 97: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* ${S}/configure ${myconf} || die failed to configure glibc
* The die message:
* failed to configure glibc
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
relevant.
* A complete build log is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
*
* Messages for package sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201:
*
* ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 49: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 179: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 187: Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 120: Called
glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
* src_compile.eblit, line 97: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* ${S}/configure ${myconf} || die failed to configure glibc
* The die message:
* failed to configure glibc
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
relevant.
* A complete build log is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
I've attached the build.log, but can't find config.log. Where is this
normally located?
Jeff
After finding this link with a possible solution,
http://www.linux-solved.com/post/gnu-stubs-32-h-No-such-file-or-directory-multilib-SOLVED-564.html
I downloaded binaries of glibc and gcc
I emerged gcc from a binary successfully, but when I tried to install the
glibc binary, it failed because the binary I found was rev 2.6.1, and the
present version is glibc-2.9_p20081201, so emerge would not allow the
downgrade.
The error was
* Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system:
* Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction
*
* ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 49: Called pkg_setup
* environment, line 3275: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* die aborting to save your system;
* The die message:
* aborting to save your system
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
relevant.
* A complete build log is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'.
I then tried emerge binutils glibc gcc after running source /etc/profile and
env-update.
binutils emerged successfully, but glibc still failed with the same sanity
check error.
Does anyone know where I can get the latest binary for an amd64 system, or
otherwise get around this issue?
Thanks
Jeff
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 01:30, Jeff Cranmer jcranme...@earthlink.net wrote:
On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:52:11 am Jeff Cranmer wrote:
On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:11:59 am Justin wrote:
Jeff Cranmer schrieb:
I have a problem with my gentoo system
I am trying to update, and I get a C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails
sanity check error on a number of packages.
After a bit of searching, the solution that I come across most often is
to recompile glibc and gcc. Unfortunately, when I try to compile
glibc, I get the same sanity check error. Catch 22.
Can anyone help me get around this 'insanity'?
Thanks
Jeff
Can you provide some more information please? Logs etc?
Here is the end of the output.
checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes
checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes
checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89...
unsupported checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp
configure: error: C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
See `config.log' for more details.
*
* ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 49: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 179: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 187: Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 120: Called
glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
* src_compile.eblit, line 97: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* ${S}/configure ${myconf} || die failed to configure glibc
* The die message:
* failed to configure glibc
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
relevant.
* A complete build log is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
*
* Messages for package sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201:
*
* ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 49: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 179: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3457: Called eblit-run 'src_compile'
* environment, line 1115: Called eblit-glibc-src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 187: Called toolchain-glibc_src_compile
* src_compile.eblit, line 120: Called
glibc_do_configure 'src_compile'
* src_compile.eblit, line 97: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* ${S}/configure ${myconf} || die failed to configure glibc
* The die message:
* failed to configure glibc
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
relevant.
* A complete build log is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.9_p20081201/temp/environment'.
I've attached the build.log, but can't find config.log. Where is this
normally located?
Jeff
After finding this link with a possible solution,
http://www.linux-solved.com/post/gnu-stubs-32-h-No-such-file-or-directory-multilib-SOLVED-564.html
I downloaded binaries of glibc and gcc
I emerged gcc from a binary successfully, but when I tried to install the
glibc binary, it failed because the binary I found was rev 2.6.1, and the
present version is glibc-2.9_p20081201, so emerge would not allow the
downgrade.
The error was
* Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system:
* Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction
*
* ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed.
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 49: Called pkg_setup
* environment, line 3275: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* die aborting to save your system;
* The die message:
* aborting to save your system
*
* If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if
relevant.
* A complete build log is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located
at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'.
I then tried emerge binutils glibc gcc after running source /etc/profile and
env-update.
binutils emerged successfully, but glibc still failed with the same sanity
check error.
Does anyone know where I can get the latest binary for an amd64 system, or
otherwise
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Penguin Lover Jeff Cranmer squawked: checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89... unsupported checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp configure: error: C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check See `config.log' for more details. Try posting config.log in the build directory also. The build log that you posted was virtually identical to this. W -- W: You see, me and Willetta have been going on for a few weeks now. Phil: Only a few weeks, and she's living in your room? DJP: Will! What's that thing you said earlier about taking things slow! MW rolling on the ground laughing. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 744 days, 16:25
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile binary packages[1]. Or, why not just use a stage tarball? HTH. Joe [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine. My laptop runs a different PC processor type. How would I go about cross-compiling an amd64 binary on my laptop, and creating the necessary .tbz2 tarball. If I could do that, I would probably be able to test out the theory that this would fix my broken system. Thanks Jeff
Fwd: Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 12:43:58 pm Willie Wong wrote: On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:52:11AM -0500, Penguin Lover Jeff Cranmer squawked: checking whether we are using the GNU C compiler... yes checking whether x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc accepts -g... yes checking for x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc option to accept ISO C89... unsupported checking how to run the C preprocessor... /lib/cpp configure: error: C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check See `config.log' for more details. Try posting config.log in the build directory also. The build log that you posted was virtually identical to this. W where do I find config.log? It wasn't in the same directory as build.log, or in the root directory. Thanks Jeff ---
Re: Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800 Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point where it is almost invisible. I'd say the importance of sending plain text to mailing lists is common knowledge, but if you really think there should be a note about it on the ml page, I guess the thing to do would be to file a bug for the web site. http://bugs.gentoo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Website%20www.gentoo.org -- »Q« Kleeneness is next to Gödelness.
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Jeff Cranmer schrieb: Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile binary packages[1]. Or, why not just use a stage tarball? HTH. Joe [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine. My laptop runs a different PC processor type. How would I go about cross-compiling an amd64 binary on my laptop, and creating the necessary .tbz2 tarball. If I could do that, I would probably be able to test out the theory that this would fix my broken system. Thanks Jeff Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of such important packages might always have issues. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 2:25 AM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Saturday 20 December 2008 20:53:48 Mark Knecht wrote: I did uncomment lines in /etc/cups/mime.convs and mime.types as per the numerous wikis around on configuring cups. If you need the specific lines let me know but all the wikis say to do it. That would be helpful - thanks. Off-list might be best. Thanks also for the cups config files. I can't think of what else to suggest at this point but ... It looks as though the problem is in network access. I'm going to start delving into snmp and ldap to see if I can find it. I'll start a new thread then, as this is getting away from the subject. -- Rgds Peter Hi Peter, Sorry for the delay. Just getting logged in for the first time on this somewhat cold dreary Sunday. Again, I don't imagine ANY of what we're talking about here will work for a Windows machine printing to a Linux cups server if a Linux machine on the same network cannot print to that server. Possibly this at least partially an issue about the printer being 'published'? On the Administration page of the cups server I've got the first two options checked and the last 4 unchecked, basically saying to share with others any printers on this machine. I tried to copy the text but it didn't work and xsnap seems to be failing which stops me from taking a small screen shot. If I can get that fixed with an emerge I'll send along a little png file. The other two changes are fairly simple. I apologize for not including them before. My bad for being lazy. In /etc/cups/mime.types near the end: # # Raw print file support... # # Comment the following type to prevent raw file printing. # application/octet-stream # # End of $Id: mime.types 6649 2007-07-11 21:46:42Z mike $. In mime.convs near the end: # pstoraster is part of GPL Ghostscript... application/vnd.cups-postscript application/vnd.cups-raster 100 pstoraster # # Raw filter... # # Uncomment the following filter to allow printing of arbitrary files # without the -oraw option. # application/octet-streamapplication/vnd.cups-raw0 - # # End of $Id: mime.convs.in 6761 2007-08-02 17:58:59Z mike $. Again, very sorry for the delay if this turns out to be the important factor. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 01:49:41 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile binary packages[1]. Or, why not just use a stage tarball? HTH. Joe [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine. My laptop runs a different PC processor type. How would I go about cross-compiling an amd64 binary on my laptop, and creating the necessary .tbz2 tarball. If I could do that, I would probably be able to test out the theory that this would fix my broken system. Thanks Jeff Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of such important packages might always have issues. What is the approved way to do this? When I tried to install an old version of glibc from a binary, I got the error: The error was * Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system: * Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction * * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 49: Called pkg_setup * environment, line 3275: Called die * The specific snippet of code: * die aborting to save your system; * The die message: * aborting to save your system * * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. * A complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'. * The ebuild environment file is located at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'. The error message Downgrading glibc is not supported and is a sure way to destruction makes me think that going back would not be such a good idea. Jeff
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 6:50 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote: almost all linux mailing lists - and almost all technical mailing lists have a no-html rule. If you decide that fance formating is more important than readership, you are on your own. Hey I don't need that tone. As I said if I knew the informal rule I'd follow it, no issue. It's just that many mail readers make it transparent to the user whether mail is being read or written in plaintext or html, although of course there are obvious and easy to click options to do both. Also every month is a lenghty thread where people tell someone to stop using html. You must have skipped that threads. Like I said, I usually just use the list to ask a question or two every once in a while. In-material prefiltered content is probably the wrong place to put advice like that, because by then it's already too late and many people just skim through content till they see something interesting anyway. It's like getting a message about not using an all lowercase password hidden in your system logs. Yes, technically you're supposed to read your logs every once in a while, but most people filter their use of such logs only for specific problems and would transparently miss it.
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 21:09:33 Jeff Cranmer wrote: On Sunday 21 December 2008 01:49:41 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: Hmm, if you have a separate machine with the same architecture, you can build those binary packages yourself, just man emerge and take a look at the buildpkg section. Alternatively, you can cross compile binary packages[1]. Or, why not just use a stage tarball? HTH. Joe [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/base/embedded/cross-development.xml I'm not an expert, and I don't have a second amd64 machine. My laptop runs a different PC processor type. How would I go about cross-compiling an amd64 binary on my laptop, and creating the necessary .tbz2 tarball. If I could do that, I would probably be able to test out the theory that this would fix my broken system. Thanks Jeff Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of such important packages might always have issues. What is the approved way to do this? There is no approved way to downgrade glibc. The output message from the error you posted tells you why the devs will not provide you with a method to do it. If you *really* want to do it, your could comment out the if statement between lines 159 and 163 of the latest glibc ebuild. The only correct way I know of is to perform a reinstall. It'll probable be quicker, easier and far less painful than trying to recover from ripping the foundation out from under your OS... However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have attempted to downgrade glibc? -- Alan McKinnon Systems Engineer Infrastructure Services Internet Solutions +27 11 575 7585 When I tried to install an old version of glibc from a binary, I got the error: The error was * Sanity check to keep you from breaking your system: * Downgrading glibc is not supported and a sure way to destruction * * ERROR: sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 49: Called pkg_setup * environment, line 3275: Called die * The specific snippet of code: * die aborting to save your system; * The die message: * aborting to save your system * * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. * A complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/build.log'. * The ebuild environment file is located at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-libs/glibc-2.6.1/temp/environment'. The error message Downgrading glibc is not supported and is a sure way to destruction makes me think that going back would not be such a good idea. Jeff -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have attempted to downgrade glibc? My fault missed the c. @Jeff Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Perhaps you should go back to a lower glib version. Latest versions of such important packages might always have issues. What is the approved way to do this? There is no approved way to downgrade glibc. The output message from the error you posted tells you why the devs will not provide you with a method to do it. If you *really* want to do it, your could comment out the if statement between lines 159 and 163 of the latest glibc ebuild. The only correct way I know of is to perform a reinstall. It'll probable be quicker, easier and far less painful than trying to recover from ripping the foundation out from under your OS... However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have attempted to downgrade glibc? The issue that I have is that glibc is broken, probably due to my profile having at some point switched from a 64 bit profile back to i386. After discovering this, I tried to fix this by switching the profile back, and that's when my problems began. glibc appears to be broken, and causes errors when trying to compile (specifically, lib cpp fails the sanity check). Reinstalling glibc from a binary was recommended as a way to fix this, but I don't have access to a binary of the same or more recent vintage as the one already installed on my system. Trying to install an older version that I could find caused the glibc error. emerge -eav system causes the same errors, as glibc appears to require glibc to compile, and since it's not working, I have a circular dependency that I can't resolve. If its OK to do so, and has a chance of working, I could install an older version of glib. All I need to know is how to do this. Any pointers gratefully received. I'd really rather not have to rip out everything and re-install the OS (several days of work), as it's basically working right now - just won't upgrade at the moment. Thanks Jeff Jeff
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote: However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have attempted to downgrade glibc? My fault missed the c. @Jeff Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling. there ya go :-) Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2, glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64) = System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+ Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 + app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33 dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1 dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7 dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6 dev-util/cmake: 2.4.6-r1 sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1 sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.61-r2 sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10.1-r1 sys-devel/binutils: 2.18-r3 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4 sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.26 virtual/os-headers: 2.6.23-r3 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 CBUILD=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 CHOST=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CONFIG_PROTECT=/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config /var/lib/hsqldb CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK=/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d CXXFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 DISTDIR=/usr/portage/distfiles FEATURES=distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans userfetch GENTOO_MIRRORS=http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo; LDFLAGS=-Wl,-O1 MAKEOPTS=-j3 PKGDIR=/usr/portage/packages PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS=--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/var/tmp PORTDIR=/usr/portage SYNC=rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage USE=X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 asf berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdr cli cracklib crypt cups dar64 dbus doc dri dv dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss encode esd evo fam firefox foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif gimpprint gnome gpm gstreamer gtk hal iconv ipv6 isdnlog jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad midi mikmod mjpeg mmx mp3 mpeg mudflap multilib ncurses nls nptl nptlonly ogg opengl openmp pam pcre pdf perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt3support qt4 quicktime readline realmedia reflection scanner sdl session smp spell spl sse sse2 ssl startup-notification svg symlink sysfs tcpd tiff truetype unicode usb vorbis wmf xinerama xml xorg xulrunner xv xvid zlib ALSA_CARDS=hda-intel ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS=adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol APACHE2_MODULES=actions alias auth_basic auth_digest authn_anon authn_dbd authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache dav dav_fs dav_lock dbd deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers ident imagemap include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation proxy proxy_ajp proxy_balancer proxy_connect proxy_http rewrite setenvif so speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias ELIBC=glibc INPUT_DEVICES=keyboard mouse joystick KERNEL=linux LCD_DEVICES=bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text USERLAND=GNU VIDEO_CARDS=nvidia Unset: CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, FFLAGS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, PORTDIR_OVERLAY
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Jeff Cranmer schrieb: On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote: However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have attempted to downgrade glibc? My fault missed the c. @Jeff Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling. there ya go :-) Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2, glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64) = System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor definitely a 64bit kernel. If you ever switched to a 32bit profile you system is broken and you better reinstall everything. 3800+ Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 + app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33 dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1 dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7 dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6 dev-util/cmake: 2.4.6-r1 sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1 sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.61-r2 sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10.1-r1 sys-devel/binutils: 2.18-r3 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4 sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.26 virtual/os-headers: 2.6.23-r3 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 You should use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~amd64 as long as you don't have alot experience. You can manually enable the usage of masked packages. CBUILD=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 CHOST=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CONFIG_PROTECT=/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config /var/lib/hsqldb CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK=/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d CXXFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 DISTDIR=/usr/portage/distfiles FEATURES=distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans userfetch GENTOO_MIRRORS=http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo; LDFLAGS=-Wl,-O1 MAKEOPTS=-j3 PKGDIR=/usr/portage/packages PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS=--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/var/tmp PORTDIR=/usr/portage SYNC=rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage USE=X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 asf berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdr cli cracklib crypt cups dar64 dbus doc dri dv dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss encode esd evo fam firefox foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif gimpprint gnome gpm gstreamer gtk hal iconv ipv6 isdnlog jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad midi mikmod mjpeg mmx mp3 mpeg mudflap multilib ncurses nls nptl nptlonly ogg opengl openmp pam pcre pdf perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt3support qt4 quicktime readline realmedia reflection scanner sdl session smp spell spl sse sse2 ssl startup-notification svg symlink sysfs tcpd tiff truetype unicode usb vorbis wmf xinerama xml xorg xulrunner xv xvid zlib ALSA_CARDS=hda-intel ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS=adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol APACHE2_MODULES=actions alias auth_basic auth_digest authn_anon authn_dbd authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache dav dav_fs dav_lock dbd deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers ident imagemap include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation proxy proxy_ajp proxy_balancer proxy_connect proxy_http rewrite setenvif so speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias ELIBC=glibc INPUT_DEVICES=keyboard mouse joystick KERNEL=linux LCD_DEVICES=bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text USERLAND=GNU VIDEO_CARDS=nvidia Unset: CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, FFLAGS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, PORTDIR_OVERLAY signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system, and it is failing due to several errors. Other than reformatting the hard drive, how do I reinstall everything? Where do I change the accept keywords variable? It isn't in my make.conf, and if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds to the list of keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64 Jeff On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:49:46 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote: However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have attempted to downgrade glibc? My fault missed the c. @Jeff Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling. there ya go :-) Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2, glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64) = System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor definitely a 64bit kernel. If you ever switched to a 32bit profile you system is broken and you better reinstall everything. 3800+ Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 + app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33 dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1 dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7 dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6 dev-util/cmake: 2.4.6-r1 sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1 sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.61-r2 sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10.1-r1 sys-devel/binutils: 2.18-r3 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4 sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.26 virtual/os-headers: 2.6.23-r3 ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 You should use ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~amd64 as long as you don't have alot experience. You can manually enable the usage of masked packages. CBUILD=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 CHOST=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CONFIG_PROTECT=/etc /usr/kde/3.5/env /usr/kde/3.5/share/config /usr/kde/3.5/shutdown /usr/share/config /var/lib/hsqldb CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK=/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/php/apache2-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cgi-php5/ext-active/ /etc/php/cli-php5/ext-active/ /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d CXXFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -march=athlon64 DISTDIR=/usr/portage/distfiles FEATURES=distlocks metadata-transfer sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans userfetch GENTOO_MIRRORS=http://distfiles.gentoo.org http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo; LDFLAGS=-Wl,-O1 MAKEOPTS=-j3 PKGDIR=/usr/portage/packages PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS=--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages PORTAGE_TMPDIR=/var/tmp PORTDIR=/usr/portage SYNC=rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage USE=X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 asf berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdr cli cracklib crypt cups dar64 dbus doc dri dv dvd dvdr dvdread eds emboss encode esd evo fam firefox foomaticdb fortran gdbm gif gimpprint gnome gpm gstreamer gtk hal iconv ipv6 isdnlog jpeg kde ldap libnotify mad midi mikmod mjpeg mmx mp3 mpeg mudflap multilib ncurses nls nptl nptlonly ogg opengl openmp pam pcre pdf perl png ppds pppd python qt3 qt3support qt4 quicktime readline realmedia reflection scanner sdl session smp spell spl sse sse2 ssl startup-notification svg symlink sysfs tcpd tiff truetype unicode usb vorbis wmf xinerama xml xorg xulrunner xv xvid zlib ALSA_CARDS=hda-intel ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS=adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol APACHE2_MODULES=actions alias auth_basic auth_digest authn_anon authn_dbd authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache dav dav_fs dav_lock dbd deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers ident imagemap include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation proxy proxy_ajp proxy_balancer proxy_connect proxy_http rewrite setenvif so speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias ELIBC=glibc INPUT_DEVICES=keyboard mouse joystick KERNEL=linux LCD_DEVICES=bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text USERLAND=GNU VIDEO_CARDS=nvidia Unset: CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, FFLAGS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS, PORTDIR_OVERLAY
Re: [gentoo-user] Migrating hard drives
Joerg Schilling wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Thing is, what is on the CD works for me. I been using cp for a long time and unless it stops working, I don't plan to switch. My current Didn't you complain about gcp? Nope. I didn't complain about. Never heard of until this thread that I can recall. I haven't complained about gcp, cp or anything that I recall. According to other posts, you wrote the program. Why not talk to the people that make the CD and make your points on why it should be included? If they are valid then maybe they will. If not, life goes on. AFAIR, the people who cretaed this CD have not been mentioned. But people who work on a Life CD should know the oldest free TAR implementation and people who use GNU tar should know about the various bugs in GNU tar and why it makes sense to avoid GNU tar if you know that star is available. Star is written and maintained by the same person since 27 years while GNU tar is the first victim of the social deficits of RMS. RMS did cause the GNU tar maintainers to run away three times because they could not stand the paternalism from RMS. GNU tar does not support any Linux specific feature altough it would be needed, star does support Linux specific features. The only explanation I see for GNU tar usually being the only tar on Linux is that there are scripts that depend on Bugs in GNU tar. Sysadmins of bigger sites prefer star for many tasks that could also be done by other software. If you like to reduce the time to work on some tasks, you first need to spend some hours to learn about the features in star. In total you save time I know it was not you but another person did mention some text written by a person called fele who has no clue. Discussing the way to do work best cannot be based on people who have no clue and starting to use new software always takes some time. People who know me know that I am always happy to help explaining how to use my software but I am doing this only if there is interest. Jörg Well, I asked the question if star was on the Gentoo live CD. It was posted that it was not on the CD. I don't know myself so I asked. Then it was mentioned that I should ask for it to be on the CD when I don't plan to use star anyway. Since it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I thought it may be better for someone who does want it on the CD to ask rather than me, who doesn't really matter either way. It is true that you are very helpful with whatever you are familiar with. Thanks much for that. We all need a little help from time to time. We all run into that stump sometimes. Heck, I got a big ole stump in my front yard that I been bumping with the tractor. I think the ants are doing better than the tractor. o_O They just take a little longer. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
User Relations bug 251931 http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931
Re: Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
»Q« wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800 Mark David Dumlao madum...@gmail.com wrote: I am currently searching my subscription info, the gentoo site, or the mailing list welcome for any hints that html messages are rude or unwanted. I am having some difficulty finding it, that alone is a warning sign that the amount of pre-specialization needed to participate in the community is dangerously prohibitive to the point where it is almost invisible. I'd say the importance of sending plain text to mailing lists is common knowledge, but if you really think there should be a note about it on the ml page, I guess the thing to do would be to file a bug for the web site. http://bugs.gentoo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Website%20www.gentoo.org I think it should be on the website page where it lists all the mailing lists and should also be in the email where you confirm it. I know when I first joined, I had to get someone to tell me how to make it send text only. I didn't know either. No, I'm not a reformed windoze user either. I have never had windoze. Started with Mandrake, got pissed at the update process and been with Gentoo ever since. :-p It may be common knowledge to some but not everybody. This was my first mailing list to ever subscribe too. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Jeff Cranmer schrieb: First avoid top posting OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system, and it is failing due to several errors. Other than reformatting the hard drive, how do I reinstall everything? boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1], extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system. Where do I change the accept keywords variable? It isn't in my make.conf, and if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds to the list of keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64 Search for it in /etc. Jeff [1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml?catid=install signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
To clarify, when I try to run emerge -eav system, the first package which fails is sandbox. It advises me to try FEATURES=-sandbox emerge sandbox in response to the cannot run C compiled programs, but I still get the same error. My research on the web points me back towards gcc not being compiled correctly, which brings me back to the glibc sanity check problem :-( Calculating dependencies... done! Verifying ebuild Manifests... Emerging (1 of 1) sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2 to / * sandbox-1.2.18.1.tar.bz2 RMD160 SHA1 SHA256 size ;-) ... [ ok ] * checking ebuild checksums ;-) ... [ ok ] * checking auxfile checksums ;-) ... [ ok ] * checking miscfile checksums ;-) ...[ ok ] * checking sandbox-1.2.18.1.tar.bz2 ;-) ... [ ok ] Unpacking source... Unpacking sandbox-1.2.18.1.tar.bz2 to /var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/work * Applying sandbox-1.2.18.1-open-normal-fail.patch ... [ ok ] * Applying sandbox-1.2.18.1-open-cloexec.patch ... [ ok ] Source unpacked. Compiling source in /var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/work/sandbox-1.2.18.1 ... * If configure fails with a 'cannot run C compiled programs' error, try this: * FEATURES=-sandbox emerge sandbox * Configuring sandbox for ABI=x86... * econf: updating sandbox-1.2.18.1/config.guess with /usr/share/gnuconfig/config.guess * econf: updating sandbox-1.2.18.1/config.sub with /usr/share/gnuconfig/config.sub ../sandbox-1.2.18.1//configure --prefix=/usr --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --mandir=/usr/share/man --infodir=/usr/share/info --datadir=/usr/share --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var/lib --libdir=/usr/lib32 --enable-multilib --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking for gawk... gawk checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-gcc... no checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables See `config.log' for more details. !!! Please attach the following file when seeking support: !!! /var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/work/build-x86-x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/config.log * * ERROR: sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2 failed. * Call stack: * ebuild.sh, line 49: Called src_compile * environment, line 2471: Called econf 'src_compile' 'src_compile' * ebuild.sh, line 519: Called die * The specific snippet of code: * die econf failed * The die message: * econf failed * * If you need support, post the topmost build error, and the call stack if relevant. * A complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/temp/build.log'. * The ebuild environment file is located at '/var/tmp/portage/sys-apps/sandbox-1.2.18.1-r2/temp/environment'. * On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:03:59 pm Jeff Cranmer wrote: OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system, and it is failing due to several errors. Other than reformatting the hard drive, how do I reinstall everything? Where do I change the accept keywords variable? It isn't in my make.conf, and if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds to the list of keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64 Jeff On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:49:46 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: On Sunday 21 December 2008 02:35:56 pm Justin wrote: However, did you notice that the parent poster mentioned glib and you have attempted to downgrade glibc? My fault missed the c. @Jeff Please provide a emerge --info so that we can comment on it. Perhaps this will protect you from some more headache when reinstalling. there ya go :-) Portage 2.1.4.5 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2, glibc-2.9_p20081201-r0, 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64) = System uname: 2.6.24-gentoo-r4 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor definitely a 64bit kernel. If you ever switched to a 32bit profile you system is broken and you better reinstall everything. 3800+ Timestamp of tree: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 08:00:01 + app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33 dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1 dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7 dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6 dev-util/cmake: 2.4.6-r1 sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1 sys-apps/sandbox:1.2.18.1-r2 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.61-r2 sys-devel/automake: 1.4_p6, 1.5, 1.6.3, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10.1-r1 sys-devel/binutils: 2.18-r3 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4 sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.26 virtual/os-headers: 2.6.23-r3
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:15:41 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: First avoid top posting OK - accepting that my system is broken, I've tried emerge -eav system, and it is failing due to several errors. Other than reformatting the hard drive, how do I reinstall everything? boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1], extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system. Where do I change the accept keywords variable? It isn't in my make.conf, and if I put an accept keywords line in there, it simply adds to the list of keywords, rather than replacing the amd64 with ~amd64 Search for it in /etc. I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords variable. Jeff [1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/index.xml?catid=install
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Jeff Cranmer schrieb: I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than reinstalling. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Jeff Cranmer schrieb: On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than reinstalling. Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data. The guides are written for a blank system. That is not what I have. The problem is with glibc. Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav from there? Jeff boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1], extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than reinstalling. Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data. The guides are written for a blank system. That is not what I have. The problem is with glibc. Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav from there? Jeff
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote: User Relations bug 251931 http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931 Access Denied You are not authorized to access bug #251931. Please press Back and try again.
Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:57:43AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Again, I don't imagine ANY of what we're talking about here will work for a Windows machine printing to a Linux cups server if a Linux machine on the same network cannot print to that server. Technically not true. I had a Lexmark Z810 inkjet that refused to print from my linux desktop, and the problem is almost certainly the print driver. But the inkjet printed just fine over the network from a Windows machine if I setup a raw queue and installed the bundled driver on the Windows machine. I eventually decided to just connect the printer to the Windows machine because it seems a bit silly to run a cups server just so the single Windows machine (and only that machine) on the network can print to it. W -- Willie W. Wong ww...@math.princeton.edu 408 Fine Hall, Department of Mathematics, Princeton University, Princeton A mathematician's reputation rests on the number of bad proofs he has given.
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:44:37 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than reinstalling. Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data. The guides are written for a blank system. That is not what I have. The problem is with glibc. Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav from there? Jeff boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1], extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system. OK - since I'm no gentoo expert, I need to define the exact procedure here before I'm going to attempt this, so I have a number of questions: (1) If I remove /etc/portage/packages*, nothing will be removed, as nothing matches that search string, so what exactly should I be removing? Do you mean remove the entire contents of /etc/portage? If I do this, I'll lose all the package.use, keywords, mask information that I have set up. Why is this necessary? It seems that this will just break my system further. (2) In my system, swap is /dev/sda2, boot is /dev/sda5, and root is /dev/sda3 I should skip the fdisk commands, then swapon /dev/sda2 mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo mount /dev/sda5 /mnt/gentoo/boot cd /mnt/gentoo Is this correct? (3) After extracting the stage3 tarball for an amd64 system, downloaded using links http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors.xml with the command tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2, I can then proced with editing make.conf, as I don't need to reinstall a portage snapshot (since I already have one set up from my present install). Is this correct? (4) After editing the make.conf file, verifying that it is correct for a 64 bit system, I then can run the command emerge -e world, and everything should compile correctly? (5) With this method, I will not lose any other key settings such as video, kde etc. Is this correct? Jeff
[gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?
I want to install PostgreSQL but I'm wondering which package to use. The obvious choice (dev-db/postgresql) installs 8.2.7 but dev-db/postgresql-server installs 8.3.5. (I see they even use the same tarball.) Is postgresql-server is the proper way going forward? What about virtual/postgresql-server? Should I prefer that over dev-db/postgresql-server? Why do we even have a virtual? I thought they were for adding a service if you don't care which specific package supplies it. Cheers, Hilco
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
On Sunday 21 December 2008 22:42:15 Jeff Cranmer wrote: On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than reinstalling. Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data. The guides are written for a blank system. That is not what I have. The problem is with glibc. Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav from there? Because to do that you need to rip out the thing that everything else on your system depends on. I don't know you at all so to explain how this works I have to make some assumptions - like that you are intelligent enough to know how to drive gentoo but don't necessarily know how the toolchain and basic libraries work. This explanation is not completely 100% correct, but it will serve to illustrate the major points. glibc is the most basic library you have on the system. Everything links into it except glibc itself. It provides all the functions used by the C language for example. Programs by and large do not communicate directly with the kernel, they interface with glibc for that. glibc in turned installed a whole heap of header files on your system, these header files contain definitions of what functions and data is available, but do not contain any code. When you compile other programs for use, the compiler examines these header files to find out how to use the data and functions that glibc provides. So far, this is not any different to any other library for any other language you might have. However, glibc is special in that everything uses it for basic functions, like how to open a file or socket, how to send text to the terminal, etc. If those definitions change, or if an upgraded version of glibc provides new fancy ways to do old things, the compiler is liable to pick this up and use it, perhaps you even used gcc to compile a new gcc. Now you come along, rip out glibc and downgrade it. Basic, vital programs (like gcc and cp) try to use the glibc library as they were compiled to do, and find something different there. Oops - disaster. Remember that a compiled program does not by and large adapt itself at run time to what it finds on the system. It was compiled to use a certain library and expects to find that library in exactly the same it was in when the program was compiled. If you change stuff - well, you are the human so you get to fix it. This is usually possible provided that your basic tools still work. Except that to fix a broken glibc you need a working glibc and that is the very thing you do not have anymore. Now, if you upgraded glibc then immediately downgraded it, you would probably get away with it. Or, if nothing you built in the interim uses any changes in the new glibc, you would get away with that too. The developers cannot guarantee this, cannot write any program that is certain to help you out, and have no way to help you identify issues you might encounter after the fact. They simply will not help you and will tell you to build a new foot seeing as you were the one that shot the old one off :-) One possible solution is for someone who is using a similar configuration to what you used to have, to mail you a binary tarball of their glibc. You would boot off a LiveCD, mount your current system and untar that glibc. Then reboot, and cross fingers. You would still then have to get up close and personal with revdep-rebuild to make sure nothing was still broken, and there's a good chance you'd have that same kind soul also mail you a binary gcc, most of the toolchain and probably coreutils as well. When that's done, I suspect you'd likely run 'emerge -e world' as well. See that last sentence? Apart from 20 or so shell commands you do not have to run, how is it different from doing a reinstall anyway? It's no different in any meaningful way, so rather save yourself the bother of all that tedious mucking about with binary packages and toolchains; and just do a reinstall. Before reinstalling, make copies of all your important config files so that you can put them back when the reinstall is complete. If you were awake in class and put your /home in a separate partition like the teacher told you to do, simply do not mount it during the reinstall and mount it at first reboot (make sure you re-use the same UID for yourself when reinstalling) So that's the easy explanation of why a glibc downgrade is not supported and why the devs do everything they can to make it not possible to even try. If none of this is new to you, well then hopefully others reading this have some of their questions answered. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
Jeff Cranmer schrieb: On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:44:37 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:28:09 pm Justin wrote: Jeff Cranmer schrieb: I'm afraid you'll need to be a little more specific on the accept keywords reinstall and never change this variable. Stick to the many guides out there. Your system is broken and fixing takes the same effort than reinstalling. Except reinstalling raises the specter of losing all my key data. The guides are written for a blank system. That is not what I have. The problem is with glibc. Why can't I fix glibc and then to an emerge -eav from there? Jeff boot livecd, mount the disc as described in the official manuals [1], extract a propriate tarball, remove all /etc/portage/packages*, review make.conf, emerge -e system, will bring back your system. OK - since I'm no gentoo expert, I need to define the exact procedure here before I'm going to attempt this, so I have a number of questions: (1) If I remove /etc/portage/packages*, nothing will be removed, as nothing matches that search string, so what exactly should I be removing? Do you mean remove the entire contents of /etc/portage? If I do this, I'll lose all the package.use, keywords, mask information that I have set up. Why is this necessary? It seems that this will just break my system further. Of course /etc/portage/package* were meant. Yeah, I think there is alot wrong on your system. So don't remove those files just save, but do a clean install. You mentioned keywords. As you have ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 you don't need this file. By the way, check if you have a single line in your keywords file with ~amd64. (2) In my system, swap is /dev/sda2, boot is /dev/sda5, and root is /dev/sda3 I should skip the fdisk commands, then swapon /dev/sda2 mount /dev/sda3 /mnt/gentoo mount /dev/sda5 /mnt/gentoo/boot cd /mnt/gentoo Is this correct? yes (3) After extracting the stage3 tarball for an amd64 system, downloaded using links http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/mirrors.xml with the command tar xvjpf stage3-*.tar.bz2, I can then proced with editing make.conf, as I don't need to reinstall a portage snapshot (since I already have one set up from my present install). Is this correct? yes (4) After editing the make.conf file, verifying that it is correct for a 64 bit system, I then can run the command emerge -e world, and everything should compile correctly? this should do but check what will done so that you don't mess up your new install. (5) With this method, I will not lose any other key settings such as video, kde etc. No, as you don't delete any files which don't belong to the base system, which you will reemerge afterwards, everything will be okey. Only all system settings will belost. So backup /etc and all folders where you changed files. Is this correct? Jeff signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] glibc - C preprocessor /lib/cpp fails sanity check
I'll let others deal with your other questions, because they require some thought and I am not sure if I remember enough of the re-install process to deal with it. But, a few comments that I hope may be helpful: On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 04:41:15PM -0500, Jeff Cranmer wrote: (4) After editing the make.conf file, verifying that it is correct for a 64 bit system, I then can run the command emerge -e world, and everything should compile correctly? backup /var/lib/portage/world before re-installing. This file contains all of the packages in your world. I am not sure if the stage3 tar ball will overwrite /var/lib/portage, so better be safe than sorry. After your re-install you can just cp the world file back and issue emerge -e world. On older portage, sometimes one runs into weird circular dependency problems. The newer portage versions maybe able to resolve it on its own, but I have not tested it to see. (5) With this method, I will not lose any other key settings such as video, kde etc. Is this correct? Suggestion: backup /etc and /root before re-install. Ditto /home if it is not on a separate partition (and if so, why is it not on a separate partition? Data should be kept separate from system). Everything else you can recover from the re-install. Hum, you should also backup /usr/src/linux/.config, if you don't have a backup already sitting in /boot. That will save you some time building your new kernel. HTH, -- Willie W. Wong ww...@math.princeton.edu 408 Fine Hall, Department of Mathematics, Princeton University, Princeton A mathematician's reputation rests on the number of bad proofs he has given.
Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?
On Sunday 21 December 2008 23:45:33 Hilco Wijbenga wrote: I want to install PostgreSQL but I'm wondering which package to use. The obvious choice (dev-db/postgresql) installs 8.2.7 but dev-db/postgresql-server installs 8.3.5. (I see they even use the same tarball.) Is postgresql-server is the proper way going forward? Yes. postgresql-server is not something new, it's a new way of packaging an existing product. It's like the monolithic/split KDE ebuilds, the new split postgresql packages make the dev's life easier, and make it possible for you to make more modular choices about what you want support for. Plus, the old packages only go as far a version 8.3.1 Only the new packages are supported after that version What about virtual/postgresql-server? Should I prefer that over dev-db/postgresql-server? If you emerge the virtual you will get the default method for your platform, whatever that is Why do we even have a virtual? I thought they were for adding a service if you don't care which specific package supplies it. You have two packages supplying the same thing - monolithic postgresql and split postgresql. Your system does not care which ebuild you ran to get postgresql, as long as you have one. This is no different to any other virtual, besides the fact that the source tarball is the same one for both. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote: On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote: User Relations bug 251931 http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931 Access Denied You are not authorized to access bug #251931. Please press Back and try again. Wow. I didn't expect user...@gentoo.org bugs to be private. I can't find a user interface mechanism to make it public (the checkbox is grayed out), and even ended up accidentally restricting myself from viewing it. I ended up duplicating it in as bug 252102... Here's the bug report in plain: === report Summary:html emails silently ignored on gentoo mailing lists without needed prior warnings to subscription e-mails on various gentoo mailing lists are silently ignored if they are available in html format. No or insufficient prior warnings against html e-mails are part of the mailing list subscription process, the mailing list pages, or documentation pointing to the mailing lists. Because they are ignored silently, senders are not even aware that there is a communication issue at all, and by default will assume that people are just uninterested in their particular thread or topic. duplicate of bug 251931, after bugzilla user error rendering bug inaccessible to reporter. Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: Case 1: Mailing list background information 1. Look for a mailing list to subscribe to at the gentoo website (http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml) 2. Observe that there are no warnings against html emails. === Case 2: Mailing list subscription information 1. Send a subscription email to listname+subscr...@lists.gentoo.org 2. Receive your confirmation mail. 3. Send a subscription confirmation / reply to the mail. 4. Observe that there are no warnings against html emails. === Case 3: Every day usage 1. Formulate an interesting, solvable question giving plenty of information. 2. Post the question to a subscribed gentoo mailing list 3. Observe a marked difference in reply volume / rate to other posts compared to your post, typicaly at zero. Actual Results: Users do not read or reply to mails sent in html format. Postings get silently ignored. There are no warnings against sending html formats. Expected Results: Warnings at the mailing list listing, subscription process, and possibly when sending regarding sending html emails. Possibly a published netiquette guide for the gentoo mailing list. I have been informed that there are periodic anti-html postings in the mailing list itself. This is a wrong solution, because the usage patterns of a developer mailing list have to do with software-based skimming and filtering for topics. It is especially relevant for users to be aware of an effective community-wide html embargo, since many mail readers transparently read and write plain and html emails, and many even default to them. === /report
Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com writes: postgresql-server is not something new, it's a new way of packaging an existing product. It's like the monolithic/split KDE ebuilds, the new split postgresql packages make the dev's life easier, and make it possible for you to make more modular choices about what you want support for. Plus, the old packages only go as far a version 8.3.1 Only the new packages are supported after that version The other advantage is that it makes the upgrade process considerably easier and safer. The new postresql-[base|server|docs] ebuilds are slotted.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote: On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote: On Sonntag 21 Dezember 2008, Mark David Dumlao wrote: User Relations bug 251931 http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=251931 Access Denied You are not authorized to access bug #251931. Please press Back and try again. Wow. I didn't expect user...@gentoo.org bugs to be private. I can't find a user interface mechanism to make it public (the checkbox is grayed out), and even ended up accidentally restricting myself from viewing it. I ended up duplicating it in as bug 252102... Here's the bug report in plain: === report Summary:html emails silently ignored on gentoo mailing lists without needed prior warnings to subscription e-mails on various gentoo mailing lists are silently ignored if they are available in html format. No or insufficient prior warnings against html e-mails are part of the mailing list subscription process, the mailing list pages, or documentation pointing to the mailing lists. Because they are ignored silently, senders are not even aware that there is a communication issue at all, and by default will assume that people are just uninterested in their particular thread or topic. emm - they are silently ignored by the people, not the system - and usually someone complains about them - it was just bad luck in your part. Also I am pretty sure that userrel is the wrong recipient. Userrel is for cases when two users are insulting each other. Because of that userrel bugs are private. You should have opened the bug with infra or docu - maybe you can change the assignment - if not I am sure somebody from userrel will.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volker.armin.hemm...@tu-clausthal.de wrote: emm - they are silently ignored by the people, not the system - and usually someone complains about them - it was just bad luck in your part. It is in this particular case where the people _are_ the system. It just so happens that the interface to the system - the mailing list subscription - isn't too clear on the characteristics and behaviors of the system, in a way that ordinary usage results in silent errors.
Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Willie Wong ww...@princeton.edu wrote: On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:57:43AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote: Again, I don't imagine ANY of what we're talking about here will work for a Windows machine printing to a Linux cups server if a Linux machine on the same network cannot print to that server. Technically not true. I had a Lexmark Z810 inkjet that refused to print from my linux desktop, and the problem is almost certainly the print driver. But the inkjet printed just fine over the network from a Windows machine if I setup a raw queue and installed the bundled driver on the Windows machine. I eventually decided to just connect the printer to the Windows machine because it seems a bit silly to run a cups server just so the single Windows machine (and only that machine) on the network can print to it. W OK, that's interesting to me in terms of understanding cups a bit more. What I'm certainly not clear about is where printer drivers reside in all these cases. I have a MythTV backend server that I put cups the printer on. I loaded hplip on that machine and then the cups web interface could install the printer and print test pages. That's all on the cups server and seems simple and straight forward. On my other Gentoo machines it seems that I've also had to install hplip to talk to the printer. What's the hplip driver on the local desktop machine actually doing? Is it doing anything? Is formating the print data what's it sending across the network? Certainly not raw pixels for the real printer on the cups server is it? Does it turn it into PCL5/6 commands, or postscript or something? If the local driver sends PCL5 data for instance then does the hplip driver at the other end do anything or does incoming PCL5 data just get funneled to the printer as 'raw' data. On the two Windows machines XP is sending postscript (generic postscript driver) and Vista is (I think) sending PCL5 as it's using the standard HP driver for the printer. I hope the question is at least reasonable as the data format at each point in the network is really unclear to me. Maybe there's a good site to read about this? - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:34:39 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Another problem, this time not technical. I just don't want many of those packages in my world file. I want to use depclean and have those packages removed when the package that depends on them is also removed. The depclean feature just got useless for those packages. That's incorrect. You only need the packages you use in world, portage is clever enough to figure out which dependencies are needed by 3.5 packages. -- Neil Bothwick If this leaves a waxy buildup - on anything - I'm coming back. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told, years later, that wearing shoes there meant I'm not serious, so please ignore my opinions.. The funny thing is, I have been subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since I usually got one or two answers. I wonder how it is possible to read this list for two years and never see a no HTML please post. Filing bugs is not the answer either, freedom is important, which means you are free to post in HTML and others are equally free to ignore you.# -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 013: Unexpected error - Huh ? signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:13:01 +, Jean-Marc Paulin wrote: [blocks B ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.13 (is blocking sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2) You need to upgrade to a more recent version of util-linux, at least 2.13, which shouldn't be a problem as 2.14.1 is stable. emerge --oneshot util-linux -- Neil Bothwick I am in total control, but don't tell my wife. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Monday 22 December 2008 01:35:41 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:46:31 +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know where to begin. It's like being in a foreign country and being told, years later, that wearing shoes there meant I'm not serious, so please ignore my opinions.. The funny thing is, I have been subscribed to this mailing list for maybe 2 years now, mostly just for asking questions, but I didn't suspect that I was being ignored since I usually got one or two answers. I wonder how it is possible to read this list for two years and never see a no HTML please post. Filing bugs is not the answer either, freedom is important, which means you are free to post in HTML and others are equally free to ignore you.# Rightee-o boys and girls, this is the point where the pretty girl from candid camera reveals that you are all suckers and points to the hidden camera behind the mirror: Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and ask you not to. At which point you should say um, gee, thanks, I didn't know that... -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?
On Monday 22 December 2008 00:07:01 Graham Murray wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com writes: postgresql-server is not something new, it's a new way of packaging an existing product. It's like the monolithic/split KDE ebuilds, the new split postgresql packages make the dev's life easier, and make it possible for you to make more modular choices about what you want support for. Plus, the old packages only go as far a version 8.3.1 Only the new packages are supported after that version The other advantage is that it makes the upgrade process considerably easier and safer. The new postresql-[base|server|docs] ebuilds are slotted. What's the rationale behind that? I can see why someone might want two or more versions of php, python, perl or mysql. But postgresql? I can't imagine why it would be useful to the majority to have SLOTs for postgresql. People tend to run one version doing one major job, which is often not the case for the other examples above. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:34:39 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Another problem, this time not technical. I just don't want many of those packages in my world file. I want to use depclean and have those packages removed when the package that depends on them is also removed. The depclean feature just got useless for those packages. That's incorrect. You only need the packages you use in world, portage is clever enough to figure out which dependencies are needed by 3.5 packages. But it wants to unmerge these for example: kde-base/kate kde-base/kdebase-startkde kde-base/ksmserver These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file. If they get unmerge, things will break. KDevelop will break without Kate, and KDE 3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P
[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
Nikos Chantziaras wrote: kde-base/kate kde-base/kdebase-startkde kde-base/ksmserver These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file. If they get unmerge, things will break. KDevelop will break without Kate, and KDE 3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P OK, now I'm really curious; turns out they are NOT dependencies :P I just checked with equery and nothing depends on them. Is that normal? I mean, startkde for example is crucial to even start KDE 3 and it's not a dependency?
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug.
At Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:58:30 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Rightee-o boys and girls, this is the point where the pretty girl from candid camera reveals that you are all suckers and points to the hidden camera behind the mirror: Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and ask you not to. At which point you should say um, gee, thanks, I didn't know that... I think that is a little harsh. I dislike html mail, never send it, and know perfectly well that this group is for text, bottom-posted mail. I don't have a proposal for how a new user should find out, but I don't think we should act as though a major offense was committed. If after being asked to send text only, a user insists on sending html, one could then complain loudly (or simply ignore the mail or update your kill-file). allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Suspend to ram: correct behavior?
Am Sonntag, den 21.12.2008, 15:04 +0100 schrieb damian: When I suspend to ram my laptop I've noticed the usb ports still yield energy (the light of my external hard drive stays on) and also the led of the wired network device is on. Is this supposed to happen? I think it should be a problem because the laptop consumes more energy that way. Does anybody know how to solve it? Try enabling or disabling USB_SUSPEND (Device Drivers-USB support-USB selective suspend/resume and wakeup) in your kernel. If that does not help, unloading the USB and wireless drivers before suspend should do the trick. If you use sys-power/pm-utils for suspend hibernate, you can add kernel modules for automatic removal before suspend to SUSPEND_MODULES in /etc/pm/config.d/modules. Bye, Daniel signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug.
On Monday 22 December 2008 02:28:26 Allan Gottlieb wrote: I think that is a little harsh. I dislike html mail, never send it, and know perfectly well that this group is for text, bottom-posted mail. It's not intended to be harsh, it's intended to make some folk sit back, take a deep breath, giggle a bit at themselves and say You know what? We're acting like a bunch of 6 year old numpties on the playground. Let's knock it off and have a beer instead... Any parent who's kids have reached primary school recognises this behaviour... -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug.
At Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:40:15 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 22 December 2008 02:28:26 Allan Gottlieb wrote: I think that is a little harsh. I dislike html mail, never send it, and know perfectly well that this group is for text, bottom-posted mail. It's not intended to be harsh, it's intended to make some folk sit back, take a deep breath, giggle a bit at themselves and say You know what? We're acting like a bunch of 6 year old numpties on the playground. Let's knock it off and have a beer instead... Any parent who's kids have reached primary school recognises this behaviour... Mine have graduated college and I missed it. It sounded harsh to me. Perhaps my humor-mode was for some reason dialed down too far. Anyway we agree that this is not a big deal. allan
Re: [gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:13:01 +, Jean-Marc Paulin wrote: [blocks B ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.13 (is blocking sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2) You need to upgrade to a more recent version of util-linux, at least 2.13, which shouldn't be a problem as 2.14.1 is stable. emerge --oneshot util-linux Blocked as well: # emerge --oneshot util-linux Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1 [2.12i-r1] USE=-loop-aes% -old-linux% -slang% (-uclibc) -unicode% [blocks B ] sys-apps/setarch (is blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1) and: # emerge -p sys-apps/setarch These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild R ] sys-apps/setarch-2.0
Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:01:59AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: What's the rationale behind that? I can see why someone might want two or more versions of php, python, perl or mysql. But postgresql? I can't imagine why it would be useful to the majority to have SLOTs for postgresql. People tend to run one version doing one major job, which is often not the case for the other examples above. The only advantage I see is upgrades. The dump and restore is a PITA, and if you forget and install the new before dumping, you have to reinstall the old, dump, and rereinstall the new. You could probably also set up Slony to manage both of them at once, running on different ports, and upgrade that way, btu I have never tried Slony. -- ... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._. Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman rocket surgeon / fe...@crowfix.com GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933 I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and ask you not to. At which point you should say um, gee, thanks, I didn't know that... That was a really dumb analogy. It conveniently ignores the problem and blows the situation out of proportion. As I said, very many mail readers _default_ to html mails, and a significant part of user to user contact is happily oblivious to it. It just doesn't come up in everyday parlance. Forgive this one seething reaction to your uncalled-for ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude, but the Internet didn't stop growing 10 years ago. It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few quick questions and filter out any irrelevant topics.
Re: [gentoo-user] Moving to 2008 profile: I cannot upgrade baselayout....
Jean-Marc Paulin wrote: On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:13:01 +, Jean-Marc Paulin wrote: [blocks B ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.13 (is blocking sys-apps/coreutils-6.10-r2) You need to upgrade to a more recent version of util-linux, at least 2.13, which shouldn't be a problem as 2.14.1 is stable. emerge --oneshot util-linux Blocked as well: # emerge --oneshot util-linux Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ] sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1 [2.12i-r1] USE=-loop-aes% -old-linux% -slang% (-uclibc) -unicode% [blocks B ] sys-apps/setarch (is blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.14.1) and: # emerge -p sys-apps/setarch These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild R ] sys-apps/setarch-2.0 Wouldn't upgrading to portage 2.2.* help with this? I think it deals with blockages better. I noticed it did on mine a little while back. Just curious. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Monday 22 December 2008 03:06:07 Mark David Dumlao wrote: On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and ask you not to. At which point you should say um, gee, thanks, I didn't know that... That was a really dumb analogy. It conveniently ignores the problem and blows the situation out of proportion. As I said, very many mail readers _default_ to html mails, and a significant part of user to user contact is happily oblivious to it. It just doesn't come up in everyday parlance. Forgive this one seething reaction to your uncalled-for ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude, but the Internet didn't stop growing 10 years ago. It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few quick questions and filter out any irrelevant topics. Ooooh, touchy-touchy :-) You should all have a good long hard look at yourselves about this thread - it looks EXACTLY the same as my 6 and 11 year old kids bicker between themselves about who took who's swimming goggles first -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] PostgreSQL: dev-db/postgresql, dev-db/postgresql-server, or virtual/postgresql-server?
On Monday 22 December 2008 03:01:07 fe...@crowfix.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:01:59AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: What's the rationale behind that? I can see why someone might want two or more versions of php, python, perl or mysql. But postgresql? I can't imagine why it would be useful to the majority to have SLOTs for postgresql. People tend to run one version doing one major job, which is often not the case for the other examples above. The only advantage I see is upgrades. The dump and restore is a PITA, and if you forget and install the new before dumping, you have to reinstall the old, dump, and rereinstall the new. You could probably also set up Slony to manage both of them at once, running on different ports, and upgrade that way, btu I have never tried Slony. Ah yes, dump and restore. I hadn't considered that. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Mark David Dumlao wrote: On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 7:58 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Am I the only one here that sees this is a stupid and completely irrelevant thread? HTML mail is like farting when you meet the Queen - you just don't do it. There isn't a rule about it, it's not an exam question and there never was a formal process that came up with it. But if you do start raising one cheek to split the crack and let rip, the butler might come along nicely and ask you not to. At which point you should say um, gee, thanks, I didn't know that... That was a really dumb analogy. It conveniently ignores the problem and blows the situation out of proportion. As I said, very many mail readers _default_ to html mails, and a significant part of user to user contact is happily oblivious to it. It just doesn't come up in everyday parlance. Forgive this one seething reaction to your uncalled-for ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude, but the Internet didn't stop growing 10 years ago. It doesn't matter that there isn't a formal rule. What matters is there is no way to find out about the de-facto rule in one of the standard use-cases of a mailing list - which is to just ask a few quick questions and filter out any irrelevant topics. A few quick observations: a) You're probably not going to change the way people perceive html email on this list b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't mean you're exempt from them. There are plenty times that somebody asks a question and the answer is, search the archives for XYZ, we already covered this, and please search before asking. This is one of those threads c) continuing along this line runs the risk of pissing off the very people who you're asking for help. I get that you don't like the way things are, but this list is a community and we all agree to abide by certain rules. The rules don't change every time a new person joins the community. Granted, it would be nice if the mailing list FAQ said 'No HTML mails and don't top post' along with the rule on vacation emails. However, this list isn't the forum as this is gentoo-*user*; a lot of people here are users and not devs. Granted, I know some people here are devs but this is still a *user* list. As I was trying to check everything in the thread I read Alan McKinnon's message (that he just sent) reminding us to stop acting like kids, so I'm going to stop here. G'Night all!
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
But it is a problem that must be addressed. It doesn't help to boil the situation into an inaccurate but amusing caricature of the problem. That's how the many bad interfaces get developed. The problem is solved for my case. I'm not going to be using html mails. But ignoring the problem isn't going to make it disappear for everyone else - there isn't a way for a user to find out they're being ignored. That's all that needs to be said.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote: b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't mean you're exempt from them. There are plenty times that somebody asks a question and the answer is, search the archives for XYZ, we already covered this, and please search before asking. This is one of those threads This isn't one of those threads. In the vast majority of those cases, there is at least the item to search for. There wasn't one in this case. c) continuing along this line runs the risk of pissing off the very people who you're asking for help. Shake up who needs to be shaken up. If people get offended by even getting suggested to the fact that their rules are hard to detect, they are going to be offended by a lot of things anyway, and questions are going to be some of them. I get that you don't like the way things are, but this list is a community and we all agree to abide by certain rules. The rules don't change every time a new person joins the community. I think you're missing the point. I never asked the community to change its rules. I'm only saying that these particular rules were invisible, and there's no way to find out about it, and that's going to be a problem for any user community.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Mark David Dumlao wrote: But it is a problem that must be addressed. It doesn't help to boil the situation into an inaccurate but amusing caricature of the problem. That's how the many bad interfaces get developed. The problem is solved for my case. I'm not going to be using html mails. But ignoring the problem isn't going to make it disappear for everyone else - there isn't a way for a user to find out they're being ignored. That's all that needs to be said. I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post and not to post via html. I don't think it's as big of a problem as this thread makes it out to be. While I'm sure some people do ignore posts that fall into those categories, there's not really much you or I can do about it. You admit that you ignore anything that you're not looking for, maybe we should address that group of members on this list. One could argue that everybody should read every message and comment if they can, but that's not what happens. Do you honestly believe that people who ignore html emails are doing something different than you for ignoring any post you don't care about? That argument can be easily silenced when you realize that some people don't care for html formatted email. Anyway, my purpose in sending that last post was to say my piece and shut up, not continue this thread as I'm getting tired of it and I'm going to ignore it very soon.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Mark David Dumlao wrote: On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote: b) just because you don't read all of the threads on this list doesn't mean you're exempt from them. There are plenty times that somebody asks a question and the answer is, search the archives for XYZ, we already covered this, and please search before asking. This is one of those threads This isn't one of those threads. In the vast majority of those cases, there is at least the item to search for. There wasn't one in this case. c) continuing along this line runs the risk of pissing off the very people who you're asking for help. Shake up who needs to be shaken up. If people get offended by even getting suggested to the fact that their rules are hard to detect, they are going to be offended by a lot of things anyway, and questions are going to be some of them. I get that you don't like the way things are, but this list is a community and we all agree to abide by certain rules. The rules don't change every time a new person joins the community. I think you're missing the point. I never asked the community to change its rules. I'm only saying that these particular rules were invisible, and there's no way to find out about it, and that's going to be a problem for any user community. this isn't some big secret, you just don't read all of the threads. There are 5,120 results for html+email when searching the gmane archives of gentoo-user. The link below is the search I used, sorted by date (descending). http://search.gmane.org/?query=html+emailauthor=group=gmane.linux.gentoo.usersort=dateDEFAULTOP=andxP=Zhtml%09ZemailxFILTERS=Glinux.gentoo.user---A
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote: I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post and not to post via html. I don't think it's as big of a problem as this thread makes it out to be. While I'm sure some people do ignore posts that fall into those categories, there's not really much you or I can do about it. I don't like defeatist attitudes just because they're related to community changes. There are certain parts of the community that can be readily improved (typically relating to centralized rules, FAQs, etc) and certain parts that are very difficult to improve (typically relating to the users' attitudes). If someone makes even a passing note of this on the website, then my single bug report might do the work of several dozen dont post in html mails over time. Do you honestly believe that people who ignore html emails are doing something different than you for ignoring any post you don't care about? That argument can be easily silenced when you realize that some people don't care for html formatted email. That's a pretty easy question to answer and substantiate. Yes. Posts are typically discriminated upon based on their content. On the other hand, html posts are discriminated based upon their formatting. This means questions that people would otherwise have answered get ignored. Content discrimination is a null transaction. Formatting discrimination is at some times a null transaction and at some times negative (friction).
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote: this isn't some big secret, you just don't read all of the threads. There are 5,120 results for html+email when searching the gmane archives of gentoo-user. The link below is the search I used, sorted by date (descending). As I said there aren't even any terms to search for when you're getting ignored. If I had known that the problem was html mails from the start, then i would have already corrected the issue before searching the archive.
Re: [gentoo-user] Print to cups printer from Windows - any good instructions?
snipped a bunch of questions I don't know the answer to On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 03:02:36PM -0800, Penguin Lover Mark Knecht squawked: I hope the question is at least reasonable as the data format at each point in the network is really unclear to me. Maybe there's a good site to read about this? If you want all the nitty-gritty details, I guess the best place to read about it would be cups.org (or the tar-ball sources in /usr/portage/distfiles, but I think this would be overkill). A quick search brings this page up http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/doc-1.4/spec-design.html I don't know if this is detailed enough. Hope this helps. Willie -- Being politically correct means always having to say you're sorry. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 745 days, 34 min
[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Saturday 20 December 2008 14:35:13 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Saturday 20 December 2008 11:53:05 Nikos Chantziaras wrote: kdeprefix has nothing to do with KDE3. It's not needed. It's only needed to have many KDE4 versions at the same time. That's not true. Yes it is. http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml#doc_chap3 This restriction does not apply to KDE 3.5 [...]. You can have a non-kdeprefix version of KDE 4.1, KDE 3.5 and a live version of KDE installed on the same system. kdeprefix is *only* for multiple KDE 4 installations. Now go back and read my post again. I'm not talking about what the docs are talking about. I'm talking about kde-3* being installed into /usr/kde/3.5 and KDE-4 being installed into /usr/ and the resulting mess that happens when you get LDPATH, PATH and various other env vars set up wrong when you start a session. And how is putting KDE4 in /usr/kde going to help in this? What difference does it make if the wrong path is chosen? Surely, it doesn't matter a bit how that path looks like if it's wrong. If a KDE4 path would come before a KDE3 path in a KDE3 session, the last thing you care about is whether that path is /usr/bin or /usr/kde/4.1/bin. And anyway, starting KDE3 puts the KDE3 paths first. Starting KDE4 puts the KDE4 paths first. And you don't need kdeprefix to get that behavior. With USE=-kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/ With USE=kdeprefix, KDE4 is installed into /usr/kde/4.x Yes, and KDE3 is *always* installed in /usr/kde/3.5 no matter what. Therefore, kdeprefix is totally irrelevant here. No it is not, and you have not read my post properly. I'm not talking about the *installation* of kde-3.5 interfering with KDE-4, I'm talking about run time. I'm saying that KDE-4 co-existing with kde-3.5 is so much easier if KDE-4 is installed into /usr/kde. Doesn't look any easier to me.
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
Mark David Dumlao wrote: On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:34 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote: I've seen plenty of emails going around requesting people not top-post and not to post via html. I don't think it's as big of a problem as this thread makes it out to be. While I'm sure some people do ignore posts that fall into those categories, there's not really much you or I can do about it. I don't like defeatist attitudes just because they're related to community changes. There are certain parts of the community that can be readily improved (typically relating to centralized rules, FAQs, etc) and certain parts that are very difficult to improve (typically relating to the users' attitudes). If someone makes even a passing note of this on the website, then my single bug report might do the work of several dozen dont post in html mails over time. Do you honestly believe that people who ignore html emails are doing something different than you for ignoring any post you don't care about? That argument can be easily silenced when you realize that some people don't care for html formatted email. That's a pretty easy question to answer and substantiate. Yes. Posts are typically discriminated upon based on their content. On the other hand, html posts are discriminated based upon their formatting. This means questions that people would otherwise have answered get ignored. Content discrimination is a null transaction. Formatting discrimination is at some times a null transaction and at some times negative (friction). I looked at your original post, the person who replied to you did so in a concise manner that he doesn't like html emails. On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Nicolas Sebrecht nicolas.s-...@lapostes.net wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:06:26PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: er, anyone? You may try by sending a mail using the text format instead of the HTML one. I don't read more than one line when it's written in HTML. I suspect that a lot of contributors do the same here. Please, conform to the netiquette. That was one of the coldest, most invisible, and hardest to troubleshoot communication errors I've ever seen. I don't even know where to begin. I don't know if he could have made that any clearer. That being said, I'm done contributing to spam on the list. Please bottom post and post in a text only format. For many people (myself included) this is the first mailing list they joined. Nobody was handed a manual up front, for the most part you learn as you go.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:18:27AM +0200, Penguin Lover Nikos Chantziaras
squawked:
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
kde-base/kate
kde-base/kdebase-startkde
kde-base/ksmserver
These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file. If they
get unmerge, things will break. KDevelop will break without Kate, and KDE
3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P
OK, now I'm really curious; turns out they are NOT dependencies :P I just
checked with equery and nothing depends on them. Is that normal? I mean,
startkde for example is crucial to even start KDE 3 and it's not a
dependency?
Hum, that is bizarre. I just tried emerge -pvt kde-meta, and it shows
that kde-meta depends on kdebase-meta depends on kdebase-startkde
(all version 3.5.9)
Checking all the ebuilds currently in the tree (versions 3.5.9,
3.5.10, 4.1.2 and 4.1.3), shows that all versions of kdebase-meta
depend on their corresponding versions of kdebase-startkde (they all
contain the line
=kde-base/kdebase-startkde-${PV}:${SLOT}
which picks the right slot). So something is probably broken on your
system. Check the contents of the various ebuilds for the versions you
installed to see what's wrong.
W
--
For the relative problem is one in which the relative radius vectors...from
one to the other? So, actually, I was wrong. Kepler was right after all.
~DeathMech, S. Sondhi. P-town PHY 205
Sortir en Pantoufles: up 745 days, 44 min
Re: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug. (Was: Re: [gentoo-user] GNOME: Cant logout and Lock Screen is showing different background from GNOME screensaver)
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Eric Martin freak4u...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know if he could have made that any clearer. That being said, I'm done contributing to spam on the list. Please bottom post and post in a text only format. For many people (myself included) this is the first mailing list they joined. Nobody was handed a manual up front, for the most part you learn as you go. The bug report is not about the clarity of an already-late reminder. The problem is that it was late for me, it will be late for a few hundred other posters after me, and it will be late for a few hundred posters after them unless something is done about it. Hence the bug report. Hopefully a presubscription FAQ or guide could at least curb such problems.
[gentoo-user] Re: depclean wants to wipe out KDE3
Willie Wong wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 02:18:27AM +0200, Penguin Lover Nikos Chantziaras
squawked:
Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
kde-base/kate
kde-base/kdebase-startkde
kde-base/ksmserver
These were dependencies and therefore were not in my world file. If they
get unmerge, things will break. KDevelop will break without Kate, and KDE
3.5 itself will break without the other two. :P
OK, now I'm really curious; turns out they are NOT dependencies :P I just
checked with equery and nothing depends on them. Is that normal? I mean,
startkde for example is crucial to even start KDE 3 and it's not a
dependency?
Hum, that is bizarre. I just tried emerge -pvt kde-meta, and it shows
that kde-meta depends on kdebase-meta depends on kdebase-startkde
(all version 3.5.9)
Checking all the ebuilds currently in the tree (versions 3.5.9,
3.5.10, 4.1.2 and 4.1.3), shows that all versions of kdebase-meta
depend on their corresponding versions of kdebase-startkde (they all
contain the line
=kde-base/kdebase-startkde-${PV}:${SLOT}
which picks the right slot). So something is probably broken on your
system. Check the contents of the various ebuilds for the versions you
installed to see what's wrong.
I'm not using -meta packages. Many packages they pulled in was stuff I
don't wanted (like PIM). I emerged KDE packages one-by-one and went
with what got pulled in as dependencies.
RE: [gentoo-user] Hard to find netiquette, enculturation bug.
(tongue heading swiftly in the direction of cheek) Ring ring. Ring ring. Hello, Gentoo user list speaking Oh hi. It's the 1990s calling. We want our plain text email back No
