Re: [hardware] [H] Installer on startup

[joeuser]

Yeah nice utility but didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. 
These installers are trying to install software and the place they are 
being called from isn't found in the usual suspects (like start up dir, 
run areas in the reg, etc)


Someone has to know how to keep these friggin things from installing


Steve wrote:


use a freebie like StartUpRun to see whats what.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/strun.html


- Original Message - From: "joeuser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Hardware LIST" 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: [hardware] [H] Installer on startup


Got a Win2K machine in the shop here. Every time it starts up it tries 
to install some apps. Since the media for the apps is not present it 
will not install and take multiple cancels attempts before it goes 
away. Searched the registry and the autoexec and stuff and still I 
cannot find where these apps are being called from. Any ideas? I would 
install the apps just to make it go away, but the customer doesn't 
know what they are or how they got on in the first place.


--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)








--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Are all keyboards basically the same?

[jeff.lane]

I wasn't with them at that timeI was there in '93. A good friend of 
mine, who was in Tech Support with me, was there for several additional 
years and mentioned that they had a lot of trouble with their wireless 
stuff. Too bad as they used to make great keyboards before many bad business 
decisions.


- Original Message - 
From: "warpmedia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [H] Are all keyboards basically the same?


Keytronic long since in the trash, it was their IR wireless stuff that 
they claimed to have stopped making in like '98.


Why $200, no reason in particular. It was the latest Logitech unit, blue 
tooth, etc... and I had $180 to spend thinking it was a great unit. It sat 
a year after initial testing and I did not return it to Logitech fast 
enough (an ebay purchase, not returnable to vendor).


Recently I pulled it out in frustration to replace the MX that is lying 
here semi-functional on my server. The original complaint was securing it, 
required pairing with a computer. Switch with a USB switch, re-pair again 
unlike the non-bluetooth MX stuff which stayed secure & working. Now I can 
add lame ass membrane to the list of complaints.



jeff.lane wrote:
I still have an old Keytronic KB101-1 capacitance keyboard. It is the 
finest keyboard I have ever usedbar none. None of the others are even 
close. These new membrane boards are strictly throwaways and certainly 
not worth wasting any repair time on. Are the two boards you have 
physically damaged, e.g., case, keys, main logic board? If it's just 
pressure domes and switches I may be able to help you. I was in Keytronic 
Tech support for awhile and have a couple of bags of parts.no keys 
though.


BTW what was so special about a membrane(AKA non-repairable) to pay 
$200.00?


Jeff


- Original Message - From: "warpmedia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


3. 3 logitechs. One goes unsupported (pre-iTouch); On another, 
eventually required an elephant typist after 2 years (membrane); A 1.5 
year old MX that despite being totally disassembled & cleaned by hand, 
never since worked right mechanically (key travel has stiction) even 
though electrically the membrane works fine; Lastly a $200 DiNovo 
abortion that seems to consistently miss the "A" & "CTRL" keys unless 
hit just right (membrane).




--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 2/15/2006

Re: [H] Are all keyboards basically the same?

[warpmedia]

Keytronic long since in the trash, it was their IR wireless stuff that 
they claimed to have stopped making in like '98.


Why $200, no reason in particular. It was the latest Logitech unit, blue 
tooth, etc... and I had $180 to spend thinking it was a great unit. It 
sat a year after initial testing and I did not return it to Logitech 
fast enough (an ebay purchase, not returnable to vendor).


Recently I pulled it out in frustration to replace the MX that is lying 
here semi-functional on my server. The original complaint was securing 
it, required pairing with a computer. Switch with a USB switch, re-pair 
again unlike the non-bluetooth MX stuff which stayed secure & working. 
Now I can add lame ass membrane to the list of complaints.



jeff.lane wrote:
I still have an old Keytronic KB101-1 capacitance keyboard. It is the 
finest keyboard I have ever usedbar none. None of the others are 
even close. These new membrane boards are strictly throwaways and 
certainly not worth wasting any repair time on. Are the two boards you 
have physically damaged, e.g., case, keys, main logic board? If it's 
just pressure domes and switches I may be able to help you. I was in 
Keytronic Tech support for awhile and have a couple of bags of 
parts.no keys though.


BTW what was so special about a membrane(AKA non-repairable) to pay 
$200.00?


Jeff


- Original Message - From: "warpmedia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


3. 3 logitechs. One goes unsupported (pre-iTouch); On another, 
eventually required an elephant typist after 2 years (membrane); A 1.5 
year old MX that despite being totally disassembled & cleaned by hand, 
never since worked right mechanically (key travel has stiction) even 
though electrically the membrane works fine; Lastly a $200 DiNovo 
abortion that seems to consistently miss the "A" & "CTRL" keys unless 
hit just right (membrane).

Re: [hardware] [H] Installer on startup

[Steve]

use a freebie like StartUpRun to see whats what.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/strun.html


- Original Message - 
From: "joeuser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Hardware LIST" 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: [hardware] [H] Installer on startup


Got a Win2K machine in the shop here. Every time it starts up it tries 
to install some apps. Since the media for the apps is not present it 
will not install and take multiple cancels attempts before it goes away. 
Searched the registry and the autoexec and stuff and still I cannot find 
where these apps are being called from. Any ideas? I would install the 
apps just to make it go away, but the customer doesn't know what they 
are or how they got on in the first place.


--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

[H] Installer on startup

[joeuser]

Got a Win2K machine in the shop here. Every time it starts up it tries 
to install some apps. Since the media for the apps is not present it 
will not install and take multiple cancels attempts before it goes away. 
Searched the registry and the autoexec and stuff and still I cannot find 
where these apps are being called from. Any ideas? I would install the 
apps just to make it go away, but the customer doesn't know what they 
are or how they got on in the first place.


--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

RE: [H] Nero 6.6 questions

[Neil Davidson]

For CD text to work 4 things are needed. You need to tell Nero to write the
CD Text information (on the 'Audio CD' tab when selecting a new Audio CD in
Nero Burning Rom. You also need a burner that will burn the CD Text
information, I don't know if they all do. You also need a drive that id
going to be able to read the text information off the disk. I know many
don't. Finally the software that is playing the CD needs to be able to
display the text. I presume WinAmp does, but to be honest I haven't used it
in years.



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Winterlight
> Sent: 15 February 2006 19:12
> To: The Hardware List
> Subject: RE: [H] Nero 6.6 questions
> 
> At 10:06 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote:
> >Does the drive you are reading from in winamp support reading the 
> >cd-text data? Nero's InfoTool should tell you
> 
> 
> I am getting a play list, if that is what you mean, but it is 
> not putting it on the CD so Winamp can read it. 
> 

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Julian Hale]

At 08:57 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote:
>At 12:28 PM 15/02/2006, joeuser wrote:
>>Actually with the latency involved with satellite it will be about the same 
>>as dial up. That's just my opinion based on experience.
>
>Ouch.  You mean the ads are lying? :) "100 times faster than dial-up!"
>
>T 

Web browsing speeds feel only slightly faster than dialup, but when you go to 
download a file, you definitely see the difference.  It should still be faster 
than 19.2.  Maybe Firefox w/ a prefetch extension would be a good addition to 
satellite.

Julian 

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Julian Hale]

At 04:44 AM 2/15/2006, W. D. wrote:
>Satellite has a spotty record at best.  On good days, when it
>actually works, you can get about 128 kbps.
>
>So, to create a wireless network with unreliable technology
>is probably an futile exercise.  I hope it works
>for him, but he'll probably disappointed.

My neighbor has Starband.  Latency is a bitch, but the speed isn't bad.  They 
often get download speeds of 50-80KB/s, and the more expensive service plan has 
even more bandwidth.  I set them up with a home wireless network, and 
everything works fine.  The only difference with what Thane wants to do is 
scale.  It should be pretty easy.  I've been thinking about approaching them 
about sharing their connection with me.

Julian 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Hayes Elkins wrote:

I've read them all. Where do you argue on the side of cleaning a computer vs 
formating? When a company with over 100 desktops and a server farm experiences 
a virus outbreak with a pending virus definition update coming out the next 
day - what do you suggest? I said wait - you answer wasformat? Help me 
here.


http: //hardwaregroup.com/pipermail/hardware/Week-of-Mon-20060213/author.html
http: //hardwaregroup.com/pipermail/hardware/Week-of-Mon-20060206/author.html


My answer is:  It depends.  Generally you can find a lot of information 
out about these virus's before the definition is complete, and possibly 
remove it manually.



Christopher Fisk
--
If it'll make you feel any better, I've learned that life is one crushing
defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead.
-- Homer Simpson, Homer and Apu

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:

Sorry, I meant, if you get in a machine that needs Windows re-installed (how 
do you know it has viruses, btw, or do you reinstall for all machines?) how 
long and how much does it cost to have Windows reinstalled, updated, software 
installed (assuming say Eudora, Office, and Firefox) data recovered and 
configuration reset to original configuration?


We have a standard diagnostic timeframe, where we'll look at a machine and 
make a judgement call on which is the better method, generally that 
diagnostic time includes things like a quick virus scan, spyware checkers, 
verifying caps on the board, looking at the startup, etc.  This usually 
takes about 30 minutes or so, and at that point, if we're confident things 
are going well on the removals, we'll generally move forward with cleaning 
the machine.


Formats and reinstalls generally aren't done unless the machine keep 
crashing in safe mode, or other things that would slowdown the system 
recovery beyond a few hours.  It's hard to quantify what triggers us 
needing a reinstall, as it is a judgement call we make.


As for the total time on reinstall, configuration, updates, etc:  Windows 
can be reinstalled with 15-30 minutes of keyboard time, driver installs 
generally take anywhere from 15m-1 hour depending on if we need to track 
down what they have or if they provided us with that information


Total time on a machine generally (not always) comes in at 3 hour billed 
to the customer.



Christopher Fisk
--
Bob Barker: "I may be against the fur industry, but that won't stop me 
from skinning you alive... as long as no one wears the skin."

Fry: "How can I live my life if I can't tell good from evil?"
Bender: "Ah, they're both fine choices, whatever floats your boat."

RE: [H] Nero 6.6 questions

[Winterlight]

At 10:06 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote:

Does the drive you are reading from in winamp support reading the cd-text
data? Nero's InfoTool should tell you



I am getting a play list, if that is what you mean, but it is not putting 
it on the CD so Winamp can read it. 

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Brian Weeden]

The latency is primarily due to the speed of light.  The geosyncronous
satllites hosting the service are 35,000 km away (roughly).  So to
send a packet one way from your house to the ISP's routers on the
ground is a distance of around 70,000 km.

At 3.0x10^6 m/s that takes the packet 0.25 seconds, or 250ms just to
get to the gateway into the internet.  Add the time it takes to get to
the destination server, lets say 100ms on the low end.  That is 350ms
for your packet to go one way, or 700ms both ways.

With no network lag :)
--
Brian

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[joeuser]

Which is probably a violation of the agreement with any of the Satellite 
providers also. I forgot to mention that.


Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

It would seem to me that a provide would want to sell several to all ten 
houses, not to just one.


Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:
:: I know a guy who lives in the boonies in a cluster of about ten
:: houses (all within 500 feet of each other.)  He was thinking of
:: getting satellite internet to his house and connect it to a router
:: and put an omni-directional antenna on his house to share the service
:: with the houses within range.  Does anyone have experience with
:: something like this and can you recommend a provider, equipment, etc?
::
:: T



--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[joeuser]

On a download of any size yes, but surfing? No. Think about the way the 
packets will travel and you'll see what I mean. From him to Sat back to 
earth then to the server and back.


Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:


At 12:28 PM 15/02/2006, joeuser wrote:

Actually with the latency involved with satellite it will be about the 
same as dial up. That's just my opinion based on experience.



Ouch.  You mean the ads are lying? :) "100 times faster than dial-up!"

T



--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

RE: [H] Nero 6.6 questions

[Neil Davidson]

Does the drive you are reading from in winamp support reading the cd-text
data? Nero's InfoTool should tell you

 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Winterlight
> Sent: 15 February 2006 00:48
> To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
> Subject: [H] Nero 6.6 questions
> 
> How in the hell do I get the help files to work in Nero 6.6. 
> I download the chm files and run them but nothing.  it 
> keeps asking me to find nero.hlp but it doesn't exist.
> 
> How do I get Nero 6.6 to include the txt information... track 
> and artist when I burn a CD so that it appears on programs 
> like Winamp? I have the write text box set. All the tracks 
> show title and artist under properties, but they don't show 
> up in Winamp??
> 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 01:01 PM 15/02/2006, Christopher Fisk wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:


At 10:49 AM 15/02/2006, Christopher Fisk wrote:

Personally I just do the safe method on backups, I have an easy 
way of making ghost backups, so I just ghost the drive to a spare 
I have on the bench for the process, then I can be sure I won't 
miss any data, because I'm not losing any data.  And as for 
settings, if I need I can boot up and find out what they were.


How long does it take you to do all that, and what do you charge?


We charge hourly, for what we call keyboard time.  The Ghost takes 
approximately 5-10 minutes keyboard time, then we start from 
there.  That way we can also return the machine to the state it was 
when we received it, if need be.


Sorry, I meant, if you get in a machine that needs Windows 
re-installed (how do you know it has viruses, btw, or do you 
reinstall for all machines?) how long and how much does it cost to 
have Windows reinstalled, updated, software installed (assuming say 
Eudora, Office, and Firefox) data recovered and configuration reset 
to original configuration?


T 

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Anthony Q. Martin]

It would seem to me that a provide would want to sell several to all ten 
houses, not to just one.


Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:
:: I know a guy who lives in the boonies in a cluster of about ten
:: houses (all within 500 feet of each other.)  He was thinking of
:: getting satellite internet to his house and connect it to a router
:: and put an omni-directional antenna on his house to share the service
:: with the houses within range.  Does anyone have experience with
:: something like this and can you recommend a provider, equipment, etc?
::
:: T 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Hayes Elkins]

From: Christopher Fisk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus 
infestation

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:04:10 -0500 (EST)

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Hayes Elkins wrote:

How many companies do you work for that are ok with an extra day of 
downtime?


What do you suggest? Format everything?


You havn't been reading my posts.  I will refer you to my posts on this 
topic, which directly answer that question already.



I've read them all. Where do you argue on the side of cleaning a computer vs 
formating? When a company with over 100 desktops and a server farm 
experiences a virus outbreak with a pending virus definition update coming 
out the next day - what do you suggest? I said wait - you answer 
wasformat? Help me here.


http://hardwaregroup.com/pipermail/hardware/Week-of-Mon-20060213/author.html
http://hardwaregroup.com/pipermail/hardware/Week-of-Mon-20060206/author.html

RE: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...

[AMDSpeed]

I've actually been using Giant's software before MS bought it. I found that
it was able to find and remove some things programs like Symantec couldn't.
This coupled with AdAware has kept my computer pretty clean.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington
(S)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Hardware List
Subject: RE: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...

At 10:57 AM 15/02/2006, Bobby Heid wrote:
>I like using this tool in addition to the other tools that I use.  They all
>seem to fins something the others leave behind.

I read a review this morning that put Spysweeper at the top of the 
pack, and put Beta1 of MS anti-spyware at the lead of the free 
products (but well behind Spysweeper.)  I agree that a multiple 
program approach is the way to go.

T 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Hayes Elkins wrote:

How many companies do you work for that are ok with an extra day of 
downtime?


What do you suggest? Format everything?


You havn't been reading my posts.  I will refer you to my posts on this 
topic, which directly answer that question already.


Symantec has released 0-day response cleaning tools for 95% of new threats 
since the day we started using SAVCE in 1999. Only time we had a threat not 
locked down in 24 hours was ILOVEYOU. Killing exchange for a day while waiting 
for the imminent fix sounds a lot better than formatting everything.


Melissa and ILOVEYOU were solved with sendmail header checks for my 
company (Which I no longer work at, that was awhile ago).  Not as easy to 
do with newer virus's, but it didn't cause more than a few hours of 
downtime for our exchange admin.



Christopher Fisk
--
BOFH Excuse #198:
Post-it Note Sludge leaked into the monitor.

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:


At 10:49 AM 15/02/2006, Christopher Fisk wrote:

Personally I just do the safe method on backups, I have an easy way of 
making ghost backups, so I just ghost the drive to a spare I have on the 
bench for the process, then I can be sure I won't miss any data, because I'm 
not losing any data.  And as for settings, if I need I can boot up and find 
out what they were.


How long does it take you to do all that, and what do you charge?


We charge hourly, for what we call keyboard time.  The Ghost takes 
approximately 5-10 minutes keyboard time, then we start from there.  That 
way we can also return the machine to the state it was when we received 
it, if need be.




Christopher Fisk

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Brian Weeden]

They are probably true from a pure speed perspective.  But once you
add in latency the "user experience" from what I have read is very
similar to dialup.

On 2/15/06, Thane Sherrington (S) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 12:28 PM 15/02/2006, joeuser wrote:
> >Actually with the latency involved with satellite it will be about
> >the same as dial up. That's just my opinion based on experience.
>
> Ouch.  You mean the ads are lying? :) "100 times faster than dial-up!"
>
> T
>
>


--
Brian

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:


At 10:49 AM 15/02/2006, Christopher Fisk wrote:
$200 is 2.5 hours of work.  How long does it take to clean the machine, 
verify the data, install all the windows updates, update the drivers, check 
capacitors, run memtest and other repair tools, etc?


You get $80/hour US?  Can I move to your town? :)


No,  We don't need the competition.

We primarilly have business customers, and if they prepay for the service 
(Service plans, etc) the price is lower.  We also don't double charge for 
our time (Meaning work on 2 machines for 1 hour for 2 customers and 
charge 1 hour of work to both customers.



Christopher Fisk
--
I WILL NOT FAKE SEIZURES
I WILL NOT FAKE SEIZURES
Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 8F23

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 12:28 PM 15/02/2006, joeuser wrote:
Actually with the latency involved with satellite it will be about 
the same as dial up. That's just my opinion based on experience.


Ouch.  You mean the ads are lying? :) "100 times faster than dial-up!"

T 

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[joeuser]

Actually with the latency involved with satellite it will be about the 
same as dial up. That's just my opinion based on experience.




Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:

At 11:57 AM 15/02/2006, 007 wrote:

Because of latency issues with Satellite, it is recommended that the 
service

be used for Internet (burst packet services).

For Telnet and some UDP services, it may not be the best solution.



He just wants email and websurfing, but faster than a 19.2 modem.

T



--
Cheers,
joeuser (still looking for the 'any' key)

RE: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 11:57 AM 15/02/2006, 007 wrote:

Because of latency issues with Satellite, it is recommended that the service
be used for Internet (burst packet services).

For Telnet and some UDP services, it may not be the best solution.


He just wants email and websurfing, but faster than a 19.2 modem.

T 

RE: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[007]

Because of latency issues with Satellite, it is recommended that the service
be used for Internet (burst packet services).

For Telnet and some UDP services, it may not be the best solution.

007.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thane
Sherrington (S)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:12 AM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet


At 08:44 AM 15/02/2006, W. D. wrote:

>Satellite has a spotty record at best.  On good days, when it
>actually works, you can get about 128 kbps.

He's getting 19.2K dial-up right now, so he's willing to try Satellite.  :)

T

RE: [H] Are all keyboards basically the same?

[007]

The old IBM "click" keyboards are the best (IMHO).  Specially for typist who
practiced the iron finger technique in their childhood.

007.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JRS
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:37 PM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] Are all keyboards basically the same?



LOL.  I still use a couple orginal IBM clickey keyboards with the buckling
spring switches from the 80's.

They work as well now as they did then and I love that clicky feel.  :)






>>My feelings after many keyboards has come down to this: Get one that
>>uses switches not membrane.
>>
>>That's after
>>
>>1. Owning 2 Keytronics, who voided my lifetime warranty for "spillage"
>>caused by spaying cleaner on the keyboard (i.e. bullshit excuse).
>>
>>2. MS Natural, Rev 1 or so. Printing wore off, stiction on key travel
>>after a few months.
>>
>>3. 3 logitechs. One goes unsupported (pre-iTouch); On another,
>>eventually required an elephant typist after 2 years (membrane); A 1.5
>>year old MX that despite being totally disassembled & cleaned by hand,
>>never since worked right mechanically (key travel has stiction) even
>>though electrically the membrane works fine; Lastly a $200 DiNovo
>>abortion that seems to consistently miss the "A" & "CTRL" keys unless
>>hit just right (membrane).
>>
>>My next keyboard will at least have switches & likely corded.
--

JRS   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Please remove  **X**  to reply...

Facts do not cease to exist just
because they are ignored.

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Hayes Elkins]

From: Christopher Fisk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Hardware List 
To: The Hardware List 
Subject: RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus 
infestation

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:10:31 -0500 (EST)

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Hayes Elkins wrote:


Just like viri - wait a day.


How many companies do you work for that are ok with an extra day of 
downtime?


What do you suggest? Format everything?

Symantec has released 0-day response cleaning tools for 95% of new threats 
since the day we started using SAVCE in 1999. Only time we had a threat not 
locked down in 24 hours was ILOVEYOU. Killing exchange for a day while 
waiting for the imminent fix sounds a lot better than formatting everything.

RE: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 10:57 AM 15/02/2006, Bobby Heid wrote:

I like using this tool in addition to the other tools that I use.  They all
seem to fins something the others leave behind.


I read a review this morning that put Spysweeper at the top of the 
pack, and put Beta1 of MS anti-spyware at the lead of the free 
products (but well behind Spysweeper.)  I agree that a multiple 
program approach is the way to go.


T 

RE: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...

[Bobby Heid]

I like using this tool in addition to the other tools that I use.  They all
seem to fins something the others leave behind.

Bobby

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:41 AM
To: The Hardware List
Subject: Re: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...


At 06:37 AM 2/15/2006, Thane Sherrington (S) typed:
>Doesn't security products from MS sound like a protection racket?  :)

If one wants real protection would you rely on Ford putting the alarm 
system on a Ford or would you go out & buy a 3rd party system?  The 
whole concept doesn't make any sense. Doesn't MSFT know that they are 
the biggest target on the planet?


--+--
Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 10:49 AM 15/02/2006, Christopher Fisk wrote:

Personally I just do the safe method on backups, I have an easy way 
of making ghost backups, so I just ghost the drive to a spare I have 
on the bench for the process, then I can be sure I won't miss any 
data, because I'm not losing any data.  And as for settings, if I 
need I can boot up and find out what they were.


How long does it take you to do all that, and what do you charge?

T 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 10:49 AM 15/02/2006, Christopher Fisk wrote:
$200 is 2.5 hours of work.  How long does it take to clean the 
machine, verify the data, install all the windows updates, update 
the drivers, check capacitors, run memtest and other repair tools, etc?


You get $80/hour US?  Can I move to your town? :)

T 

Re: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 10:41 AM 15/02/2006, Wayne Johnson wrote:

At 06:37 AM 2/15/2006, Thane Sherrington (S) typed:

Doesn't security products from MS sound like a protection racket?  :)


If one wants real protection would you rely on Ford putting the 
alarm system on a Ford or would you go out & buy a 3rd party 
system?  The whole concept doesn't make any sense. Doesn't MSFT know 
that they are the biggest target on the planet?


They don't care.  It's a new market (which they created.)  It's like 
Ford building a failure into their product, then charging to fix 
it.  I'm surprised it's not illegal.


T 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Wayne Johnson wrote:

Unfortunately there are too many shops out there that start with the 
restore disk for the simplest little problem.


Which is not what I'm advocating.

FWIW I understand there are nasties out there than can go undetected but 
nothing can change the fact that I've only had to do a complete 
re-install on 2 machines in the last 10yrs. Sure there may have been 
some machines that I spent too much time on but I would rather error on 
the side of caution.


So who eats that time?  You?  Or the customer?

When you do a backup do you do a complete backup & if not what about all 
the various configuration files then there is the time to get everything 
restored?


The restore isn't bad.  Prior to the reinstall you explain whats going on 
to the customer.  Find out what data they need, what programs they use 
(You can have a list of the programs installed on the machine to jog their 
memory) and backup from there.


Personally I just do the safe method on backups, I have an easy way of 
making ghost backups, so I just ghost the drive to a spare I have on the 
bench for the process, then I can be sure I won't miss any data, because 
I'm not losing any data.  And as for settings, if I need I can boot up and 
find out what they were.


Sure there are times when doing a reinstall is the best thing for the 
shop but IMO there is less than 5% of the time it's the best thing for 
the client.  This is one of those topics where many of us will have to 
agree to disagree, eg: I like Fords & you like Chevys.


Actually, I like Fords too.


"Can the customer go out and buy a better machine than this one for the same 
price it is going to cost for me to do the repair?"


That is why I never charge more than $200 for my time on a single machine 
because the client can buy Chuck's favorite eMachine.


$200 is 2.5 hours of work.  How long does it take to clean the machine, 
verify the data, install all the windows updates, update the drivers, 
check capacitors, run memtest and other repair tools, etc?



Christopher Fisk
--
I don't want to look like a weirdo.  I'll just go with a muumuu.
-- Homer Simpson, King-Size Homer

Re: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...

[Wayne Johnson]

At 06:37 AM 2/15/2006, Thane Sherrington (S) typed:

Doesn't security products from MS sound like a protection racket?  :)


If one wants real protection would you rely on Ford putting the alarm 
system on a Ford or would you go out & buy a 3rd party system?  The 
whole concept doesn't make any sense. Doesn't MSFT know that they are 
the biggest target on the planet?



--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Wayne Johnson]

At 09:09 AM 2/15/2006, Christopher Fisk typed:

Yes, we try to clean the machines as much as possible, but the 
insane assumption that cleaning the machine is always better than 
starting fresh with the OS, is just that, insane.


Unfortunately there are too many shops out there that start with the 
restore disk for the simplest little problem. FWIW I understand there 
are nasties out there than can go undetected but nothing can change 
the fact that I've only had to do a complete re-install on 2 machines 
in the last 10yrs. Sure there may have been some machines that I 
spent too much time on but I would rather error on the side of 
caution. When you do a backup do you do a complete backup & if not 
what about all the various configuration files then there is the time 
to get everything restored? Sure there are times when doing a 
reinstall is the best thing for the shop but IMO there is less than 
5% of the time it's the best thing for the client.  This is one of 
those topics where many of us will have to agree to disagree, eg: I 
like Fords & you like Chevys.


"Can the customer go out and buy a better machine than this one for 
the same price it is going to cost for me to do the repair?"


That is why I never charge more than $200 for my time on a single 
machine because the client can buy Chuck's favorite eMachine.



--+--
   Wayne D. Johnson
Ashland, OH, USA 44805
 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Hayes Elkins wrote:


Just like viri - wait a day.


How many companies do you work for that are ok with an extra day of 
downtime?



Christopher Fisk
--
WEDGIES ARE UNHEALTHY FOR CHILDREN AND OTHER LIVING THINGS
WEDGIES ARE UNHEALTHY FOR CHILDREN AND OTHER LIVING THINGS
Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 3F08

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, FORC5 wrote:

I had 4 systems this week badly infected ( record week ) 3 I spent too 
much time on cleaning, one I just ran the restore disk, was the easiest 
one.


See, it's not ease which is the determining factor for me, it's the "Can 
the customer go out and buy a better machine than this one for the same 
price it is going to cost for me to do the repair?"


I'm providing value to the customer, and I can't do that if they aren't 
receiving value in return.




Christopher Fisk
--
BOFH Excuse #277:
Your Flux Capacitor has gone bad.

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:


From the SysInternals page:
Can a Rootkit hide from RootkitRevealer?
It is theoretically possible for a rootkit to hide from RootkitRevealer. Doing 
so would require intercepting RootkitRevealer's reads of Registry hive data or 
file system data and changing the contents of the data such that the rootkit's 
Registry data or files are not present. However, this would require a level of 
sophistication not seen in rootkits to date. Changes to the data would require 
both an intimate knowledge of the NTFS, FAT and Registry hive formats, plus 
the ability to change data structures such that they hide the rootkit, but do 
not cause inconsistent or invalid structures or side-effect discrepancies that 
would be flagged by RootkitRevealer.


Perhaps there has been an update to this, but reading this, it looks to me 
that right now RootKitRevealer is 100%.  It doesn't catch rootkits that don't 
hide themselves, but those should show up in tools like ProcessExplorer (or 
even an AV scan) so I would say that right now RootKits are more of a threat 
to the average user than to the person who knows how to find them.


Everytime you make something idiot-proof they go an make a better idiot. 
The analogy works here as well.  Now for home users, yeah, rootkit 
revealer is very likely going to get anything you would be exposed to, 
because you're just getting hit with the automated tools.  Businesses who 
store customer data on a machine, and absolutely positively MUST be sure 
their machine is clean (Health records, presciption information, SSN's, 
etc) can't afford to be the exception to the rule when it comes to 
detecting these things.


This is coming down to you believe you can completely clean the machine, 
no matter what is on it, faster than doing a data backup, format, data 
restore, and that you present more of a value to the customer when you do 
that.


I believe that no matter how good I am, I'm gambling that I'm not going to 
run into something on the client's PC that will slow down the process, and 
cost the customer money it didn't need to.  Yes, we try to clean the 
machines as much as possible, but the insane assumption that cleaning the 
machine is always better than starting fresh with the OS, is just that, 
insane.


You also seem to think I'm recommending a reformat everytime a machine 
comes in with some spyware or a virus or two, I'm not.  But in the case 
where the user had no virus information, they're being locked out of doing 
certain things on the machine, their crashing constantly and clearing out 
thier startup, running a quick scan doesn't resolve the majority of the 
issue, a backup and format is in order.



Christopher Fisk
--
Loew's Qaddafi's Mann's Grauman's Chinese Theater

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[FORC5]

I had 4 systems this week badly infected ( record week ) 3 I spent too much 
time on cleaning, one I just ran the restore disk, was the easiest one.
fp

At 06:57 AM 2/15/2006, Christopher Fisk Poked the stick with:
>If you have a customer with no virus detection tools installed at all, they 
>come in with dozens of virus's and spyware on the machine, important data, 
>driver/registry corruption (As was the case in the original email) it is most 
>certainly faster to backup their data, verify that that data is clean and 
>import that data into a newly formatted and installed windows install.

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Some are wise; others are otherwise

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Christopher Fisk]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Hayes Elkins wrote:

I'm not saying it's not a good tool, I'm saying (And they admit) that it's 
certainly not 100%.


Neither is there an antivirus tool that detects 100% of viruses. So next time 
you suspect a variant of STONED, better be safe than sorry and format.


This is getting obsurd now.  You go on never formatting, always hunting 
hunting hunting, I will clean 5 machines in the time it takes you to do 
your one machine, and not have to give my customer any free time.


If you have a customer complaining about certain things on their computer, 
and there is a virus out that does that thing, and you find that they are 
infected with that virus, you can easilly infer that that was the issue at 
hand.



If you have a customer with no virus detection tools installed at all, 
they come in with dozens of virus's and spyware on the machine, important 
data, driver/registry corruption (As was the case in the original email) 
it is most certainly faster to backup their data, verify that that data is 
clean and import that data into a newly formatted and installed windows 
install.


I don't know about you, but once a computer repair bill starts getting up 
to $400-$500 I start suggesting a better alternative for the customer, 
bringing the customer better value for their money.




Christopher Fisk
--
"Now, by the way, surplus means a little money left over, otherwise it 
wouldn't be called a surplus."

George W. Bush, October 27, 2000

From a campaign speech in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

Re: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[chuck]

- Original Message - 
From: "Wayne Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "The Hardware List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus 
infestation





I haven't been stoned in forever & neither has any computer that I've 
worked on altho I vaguely remember seeing one back in the stone ages when 
off white text became amber. ;-)  Now that you brought this up I sure hope 
I don't have any flash backs about it. 




I saw one where a huge solid black circle covered most of the desktop. An 
advantage of in-shop repairs is I get to see the same thing on my monitor 
that the customer saw on their monitor. This takes monitor problems out of 
the diagnostic picture.


Chuck 

[H] What do you think about this laptop...

[Bobby Heid]

http://www.buy.com/prod/Lenovo_Thinkpad_R51E_1_73GHz_512MB_40GB/q/loc/101/20
2001957.html

I need to get my daughter a laptop for graduation (HS).  I came across this
yesterday.  It is $699 after $75 rebate.

Quick specs:
15" XGA TFTF screen
Intel Pentium M 740 (1.73GHz)
512MB RAM (2GB max, 1 free slot)
533MHz FSB
6-Cell battery (approx 3.5 hour run time)
CD-RW/DVD-ROM
XP Professional
40GB HD (I think I saw somewhere is was 4200rpm, but I don't see it here)

My daughter will be taking elementary education in college next year, so she
does not need a high-end laptop.  I am kind of troubled by the possible
4200rpm HD.  

An equivalently configured Dell Inspiron B130 will run about $870 after
rebates ($720 with XP home).

What do you all think about this laptop?

Thanks,
Bobby

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 08:44 AM 15/02/2006, W. D. wrote:


Satellite has a spotty record at best.  On good days, when it
actually works, you can get about 128 kbps.


He's getting 19.2K dial-up right now, so he's willing to try Satellite.  :)

T 

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Mesdaq, Ali]

Virustotal is a pretty standard tool used by researchers it has consistant 
results with other methods we use

-Original Message-
From: "Anthony Q. Martin"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2/13/06 6:09:13 AM
To: "'The Hardware List'"
Subject: RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus 
infestation


:
:Its not a company I work for its a tool we use. You can upload a file and
check it against all av
:pretty sad coverage because no av ever gets it all or even close

Then how can you believe the results?  Some can be reporting false
positives, etc.

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Mesdaq, Ali]

Because I have gotten pieces of malware and checked against virustotal and no 
on got it but reverse engineering it showed it was definitely a virus

-Original Message-
From: "Thane Sherrington (S)"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 2/13/06 6:41:54 AM
To: "The Hardware List"
Subject: RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus 
infestation

At 10:03 AM 13/02/2006, Mesdaq, Ali wrote:
>Its not a company I work for its a tool we use. You can upload a 
>file and check it against all av pretty sad coverage because no av 
>ever gets it all or even close

How do you know that?  According to their charts, it appears that if 
they scan with all the AVs then then catch all the malware, but no 
one program gets them all.

T 

Re: [H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[W. D.]

At 05:36 2/15/2006, Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:
>I know a guy who lives in the boonies in a cluster of about ten 
>houses (all within 500 feet of each other.)  He was thinking of 
>getting satellite internet to his house and connect it to a router 
>and put an omni-directional antenna on his house to share the service 
>with the houses within range.  Does anyone have experience with 
>something like this and can you recommend a provider, equipment, etc?
>
>T

Satellite has a spotty record at best.  On good days, when it
actually works, you can get about 128 kbps.

So, to create a wireless network with unreliable technology
is probably an futile exercise.  I hope it works
for him, but he'll probably disappointed.


Start Here to Find It Fast!™ -> http://www.US-Webmasters.com/best-start-page/
$8.77 Domain Names -> http://domains.us-webmasters.com/

Re: [H] AntiSpyware becomes Defender...

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 03:25 AM 15/02/2006, Stan Zaske wrote:
Microsoft AntiSpyware has gone to Beta 2 status and is now called, 
"Window's Defender". Check it out if you want one more tool for your XP box.


http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=4515857


Doesn't security products from MS sound like a protection racket?  :)

T 

[H] Satellite to wireless Internet

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

I know a guy who lives in the boonies in a cluster of about ten 
houses (all within 500 feet of each other.)  He was thinking of 
getting satellite internet to his house and connect it to a router 
and put an omni-directional antenna on his house to share the service 
with the houses within range.  Does anyone have experience with 
something like this and can you recommend a provider, equipment, etc?


T

RE: [H] Suggested tools for helping a friend with badvirus infestation

[Thane Sherrington (S)]

At 04:53 PM 14/02/2006, Christopher Fisk wrote:

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Thane Sherrington (S) wrote:


What about the ones not published?


Well, according to Systernals, it would take technology not yet 
seen in a rootkit to get around Rootkit Revealer.  It would have to 
be specifically written to intercept RR calls to directly look at 
the registry and hard drive files.  So right now, it seems like a 
pretty good tool.


I'm not saying it's not a good tool, I'm saying (And they admit) 
that it's certainly not 100%.



From the SysInternals page:
Can a Rootkit hide from RootkitRevealer?
It is theoretically possible for a rootkit to hide from 
RootkitRevealer. Doing so would require intercepting 
RootkitRevealer's reads of Registry hive data or file system data and 
changing the contents of the data such that the rootkit's Registry 
data or files are not present. However, this would require a level of 
sophistication not seen in rootkits to date. Changes to the data 
would require both an intimate knowledge of the NTFS, FAT and 
Registry hive formats, plus the ability to change data structures 
such that they hide the rootkit, but do not cause inconsistent or 
invalid structures or side-effect discrepancies that would be flagged 
by RootkitRevealer.


Perhaps there has been an update to this, but reading this, it looks 
to me that right now RootKitRevealer is 100%.  It doesn't catch 
rootkits that don't hide themselves, but those should show up in 
tools like ProcessExplorer (or even an AV scan) so I would say that 
right now RootKits are more of a threat to the average user than to 
the person who knows how to find them.


T