[neonixie-l] Neon-filled Geiger Mueller tube by Amperex type 200N

[Jon D.]

I received an email about this today.  From 1958, a neon-filled Geiger 
Mueller tube by Amperex type 200N. (I am not affiliated with Electronic 
Goldmine in any way.)



For Geiger-Muller tube enthusiasts:  
https://theelectronicgoldmine.com/products/g27942?mc_cid=c31423c98d

Price $149.95

Description: 


   - Large mica end window neon-filled Geiger Mueller tube by Amperex type 
   200N is made for the detection of Alpha particles, however it also detects 
   Beta and Gamm rays. The 200N has a 1.31" dia. Mica end window and an 
   overall size of 4" long x 0.12" dia. near window (-) end and 0.255" dia. at 
   the (+) positive tip.
   - The specs are as follows:
   - - Plateau is in excess of 200V
   - - Slope plateau 5% to 10% per 100V
   - - Dead time approx. 200 microseconds
   - - 50 counts per minute max background (shielded 2" lead).
   - The 200N operates from 700 to 900VDC. All of the specs are from the 
   1958 Amperex Electron Tubes & Semiconductor catalog. The Amperex 200N tubes 
   that we have are New Old Stock and we test each one for operation before 
   shipping. Limited Quantity.

YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS3TpvsZabE

I found this listed in Amperex_Electron_Tubes_and_Semiconductors_1958 
catalog on pp22, 23:  
https://archive.org/details/Amperex_Electron_Tubes_and_Semiconductors_1958

Cheers,

Jon D.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Beckman SP-353s on eBay -- WARNING !!

[Jon D.]

Well, my bad then.  I actually have a few of these somewhere that I know 
work, but I never noticed them looking like these.  My apologies to the 
group.  And thanks for all of the quick feedback !!

On Friday, March 1, 2024 at 10:06:06 AM UTC-7 Jeff Walton wrote:

> Hi Jon, 
>
> Actually, if you have worked with panaplex, you will recognize that these 
> nipples are normal.  The glass seal is actually sucked into the stem that 
> you are seeing.  I've bought from this seller and they are used but worked 
> fine.  I paid less than the listing price. 
>
> Jeff 
>
>  Original message 
> From: "Jon D."  
> Date: 3/1/24 9:40 AM (GMT-07:00) 
> To: neonixie-l  
> Subject: [neonixie-l] Beckman SP-353s on eBay -- WARNING !! 
>
> CAUTION !!  Buyer BEWARE !!!
>
> From this eBay auction: Beckman SP-353 Gas Discharge 3 Digits 7-segment 
> Display
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/233805887906?mkpid=0=e11304.m43.l3160=osgood=49c6ad514b75487aad670cc6dd87e9ff=43123697509=0=0=-1%7E1=20240301092435=11304
>
> Photo of back of all 4 shows glass nipples ALL broken off (i.e. no neon 
> inside).
>
> *"Sold as is."  I wonder why ???  (photo attached)*
>
> He's offering these to me for $37.52 each (25% off of $49.88) !!  What a 
> deal
>
> Jon J.
>
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> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Trouble Issue Changing MOD-SIX Lumina WiFi

[Jon D.]

OK, success after about 35 minutes !!  Two (2) sets of LESSONS LEARNED 
below, one set for each Nixie clock I worked to changeover to a new network 
this weekend.

LESSONS LEARNED SET #1: After finding Carl's CLRNET procedure reference in 
the RECOVERY MODE section of the MOD-SIX Lumina manual (Appendix K), I 
performed that and saw an initial "Lost IP" message on reboot, but the old 
IP came back.  Turns out it was only temporary because I don't think I went 
out through -EXIT- after entering CLRNET.  (I also turned off the old 
router just in case MOD-SIX Lumina clock was locking up to it faster than I 
was trying to leave it.  I don't think that had any bearing on my eventual 
success.)  I repeated the CLRNET with -EXIT- this time, and the "Lost IP" 
message stuck and repeated.

Then the battle was with my phone connecting to the MOD-SIX network.  I had 
my phone within a foot or two of the clock (even though it was at the top 
of a set of shelves).  It seemed to be hit or miss if the MOD-SIX network 
would show up (but it was no longer shown as "disconnected" as 
yesterday...PROGRESS).  But it did show up occasionally.  And finally, once 
it did, I went into the setup and selected the new network, but it didn't 
work at first (there is a new mesh router satellite repeater with the new 
network withinh 15 feet of the MOD-SIX Lumina, so distance should not be an 
issue).  After several "rinse and repeat" cycles, the MOD-SIX finally asked 
for the password, which I entered (documented in the Lumina manual).  I 
entered the MOD-SIX password and then had to wait for the network list to 
show up on my phone to choose from.  Once that did, I selected the new 
network, entered that password, and success.  WHAT A RELIEF !!!

Thanks to all for the suggestions.  (Changing the new router SSID to be the 
same as the old network was NOT an option.  Too many WiFi devices were 
already on it, and the family was very happy with the new mesh router 
satellite connectivity around the house.  I didn't dare change that for 
fear of my life...)

LESSONS LEARNED SET #2: And one OTHER rather interesting WiFi changeover 
lesson learned.  This was with my Dalibor Farny R|Z568M Zen clock yesterday 
which took me about 2 hours.  Turns out the app Dalibor has you use 
(Android for me) to change WiFi networks has an issue with newer phones.  
On my Pixel 8, the buttons would not function (so I could not select a 
network !!).  After trying several times on my new phone to connect to a 
network but without buttons working, I carefully read the instructions line 
by line and found a note that stated if issues with the app arose, try an 
older phone.  So I dug out my (now old) Pixel 3 XL phone (now WiFi only), 
and it allowed the buttons in the app to function to select a new network 
!!!  Whew, thank goodness that finally worked as I was worn out by this 
point, and thanks to the web page for documenting that "feature" !!!

So those two Nixie clocks were the big challenges of the weekend and are 
now on the new network.  Again, thanks to Carl for pointing out the CLRNET 
mode for the MOD-SIX Lumina to close out this thread !!

Cheers,

Jon J.


On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 5:55:06 PM UTC-7 Jon D. wrote:

> I am changing ISPs.  In trying to changeover my MOD-SIX Lumina WiFi from 
> an existing WiFi from the old router to a new and different WiFi router, my 
> procedure is NOT working.  Both the prior (soon to be off) WiFi and new 
> WiFi are on and up.  
>
> I can see the MOD-SIX Lumina web server on the WiFi IP it says it is on 
> (the old router).  When I try to change the WiFi to the new SSID and PW via 
> the Lumina online web server, it shows the new WiFi SSID as an option, it 
> takes the SSID and PW input for the new WiFi router, and nothing happens.  
>
> I also tried doing this next to the MOD-SIX Lumina using my phone, but my 
> phone shows the MOD-SIX "network" as "disconnected".  Something is amiss.
>
> Is there a trick to doing this ??
>
> Jon J.
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Trouble Issue Changing MOD-SIX Lumina WiFi

[Jon D.]

I am changing ISPs.  In trying to changeover my MOD-SIX Lumina WiFi from an 
existing WiFi from the old router to a new and different WiFi router, my 
procedure is NOT working.  Both the prior (soon to be off) WiFi and new 
WiFi are on and up.  

I can see the MOD-SIX Lumina web server on the WiFi IP it says it is on 
(the old router).  When I try to change the WiFi to the new SSID and PW via 
the Lumina online web server, it shows the new WiFi SSID as an option, it 
takes the SSID and PW input for the new WiFi router, and nothing happens.  

I also tried doing this next to the MOD-SIX Lumina using my phone, but my 
phone shows the MOD-SIX "network" as "disconnected".  Something is amiss.

Is there a trick to doing this ??

Jon J.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Multiplexing Displays

[Jon]

Nothing like the Niximatrix for lighting up a whole room in lovely neon! 
Well, apart from Dalibor's H tube installation of course, but that's in a 
different league to everything :)

Yes, if people have the interest (and the tubes and sockets!), I should 
have the PCBs and components for at least a couple of Niximatrix kits 
without getting into a major reorder. Don't think I've got any of the 
acrylic front and back panels lying around, but that should just be a 
matter of getting some lasered up if needed.

Jon.

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 7:20:17 PM UTC Nicholas Stock wrote:

> The Niximatrix is a sight to behold!! I must dig mine out... Do you 
> have any more kits Jon?
>
> Nick
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 12:55 AM Jon  wrote:
>
>> >For the hardware I was thinking that one of the 595's would connect to 
>> low sided drivers (MPSA42 etc) to ground the required cathodes whilst the 
>> other 595 would connect to high sided drivers (MPSA42+MPSA92 etc) to 
>> connect the >desired anode to the HV supply
>>
>> Yes, that approach works really well. See this clock from a few years 
>> back: https://youtu.be/4FnxWsp58EM
>>
>> Each six tube row is a 2 x 3 multiplex controlled by a pair of 595s 
>> driving discrete transistor high-side drivers for the anodes, low side 
>> drivers for the decimal points and a pair of Russian K155ID1 (near 
>> equivalents of the 141) to decode and low side drive the digits. The 
>> K155ID1 route was chosen instead of a regular logic decoder and discrete 
>> low side drivers to save board space without getting into lots of fiddly 
>> SMD stuff. And then each of the seven rows simply have their pairs of 595s 
>> hooked up to make a 14 device total daisychain that controls the whole 
>> display. There's a single PIC18 running the show which bit blasts display 
>> refreshes down the daisychain  as well as managing USB comms, talking to a 
>> DS3232 RTC - plenty of compute time and power to do that. The nice thing is 
>> that this approach reduces all the display composition and management to 
>> software - multiplexing, cross-fading, all the funky display animations 
>> shown in the video; it's all just a matter of figuring out what bits to set 
>> when in the 144 bit output stream. Took me right back to my programming 
>> roots writing for bit-mapped displays on 8 bit micros in the early 80s! :)
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 5:03:52 AM UTC Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>>> @ David - that is an interesting idea - I did that already in another 
>>> design  where I wanted to reduce the workload on an ESP8266 so I used a 
>>> Teensy running a state machine based piece of code to do the heavy lifting 
>>> - the ESP8266 just fed data to the Teensy over a serial connection - I kid 
>>> you not - it works really well - though that is all running a lot slower 
>>> than what I need for this multiplexed display project.
>>> I am actually hoping to do it all on ESP8266 this time round with a 
>>> couple of 595's driven via SPI transfers and some state-machine based code 
>>> which manages the display.
>>>
>>> The next part of my planning is to gain the understanding of what delays 
>>> are required and where.
>>>
>>> I am broadly assuming that I need to do things in the following order:
>>>
>>> {
>>> Set the cathodes for the number to be displayed
>>> Delay before turning on anode
>>> Set the desired anode on
>>> Wait for the desired 'anode on' time
>>> Set the anode off
>>> Wait for the desired 'anode off ' time
>>> Increment the current anode number (reset to 0 if we got past the max)
>>> }
>>>
>>> In this way, the anode on and off times can be set - thus controlling 
>>> fading etc
>>>
>>> My next question is - do I need to wait at all after setting the 
>>> cathodes up and before turning the required anode on?
>>>
>>> For the hardware I was thinking that one of the 595's would connect to 
>>> low sided drivers (MPSA42 etc) to ground the required cathodes whilst the 
>>> other 595 would connect to high sided drivers (MPSA42+MPSA92 etc) to 
>>> connect the desired anode to the HV supply.
>>>
>>> I was then thinking that all anodes and cathodes would connect to 
>>> something like 80V via a suitable resistance - as per the Bally schematic 
>>> for driving multiplexed panaplex displays in pinball machines.
>>>
>>> As detailed here: bally_as2518_15_6digit.pdf (pinitech.com) 
>>> <https://

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Multiplexing Displays

[Jon]

>For the hardware I was thinking that one of the 595's would connect to low 
sided drivers (MPSA42 etc) to ground the required cathodes whilst the other 
595 would connect to high sided drivers (MPSA42+MPSA92 etc) to connect the 
>desired anode to the HV supply

Yes, that approach works really well. See this clock from a few years back: 
https://youtu.be/4FnxWsp58EM

Each six tube row is a 2 x 3 multiplex controlled by a pair of 595s driving 
discrete transistor high-side drivers for the anodes, low side drivers for 
the decimal points and a pair of Russian K155ID1 (near equivalents of the 
141) to decode and low side drive the digits. The K155ID1 route was chosen 
instead of a regular logic decoder and discrete low side drivers to save 
board space without getting into lots of fiddly SMD stuff. And then each of 
the seven rows simply have their pairs of 595s hooked up to make a 14 
device total daisychain that controls the whole display. There's a single 
PIC18 running the show which bit blasts display refreshes down the 
daisychain  as well as managing USB comms, talking to a DS3232 RTC - plenty 
of compute time and power to do that. The nice thing is that this approach 
reduces all the display composition and management to software - 
multiplexing, cross-fading, all the funky display animations shown in the 
video; it's all just a matter of figuring out what bits to set when in the 
144 bit output stream. Took me right back to my programming roots writing 
for bit-mapped displays on 8 bit micros in the early 80s! :)

Jon.


On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 5:03:52 AM UTC Richard Scales wrote:

> @ David - that is an interesting idea - I did that already in another 
> design  where I wanted to reduce the workload on an ESP8266 so I used a 
> Teensy running a state machine based piece of code to do the heavy lifting 
> - the ESP8266 just fed data to the Teensy over a serial connection - I kid 
> you not - it works really well - though that is all running a lot slower 
> than what I need for this multiplexed display project.
> I am actually hoping to do it all on ESP8266 this time round with a couple 
> of 595's driven via SPI transfers and some state-machine based code which 
> manages the display.
>
> The next part of my planning is to gain the understanding of what delays 
> are required and where.
>
> I am broadly assuming that I need to do things in the following order:
>
> {
> Set the cathodes for the number to be displayed
> Delay before turning on anode
> Set the desired anode on
> Wait for the desired 'anode on' time
> Set the anode off
> Wait for the desired 'anode off ' time
> Increment the current anode number (reset to 0 if we got past the max)
> }
>
> In this way, the anode on and off times can be set - thus controlling 
> fading etc
>
> My next question is - do I need to wait at all after setting the cathodes 
> up and before turning the required anode on?
>
> For the hardware I was thinking that one of the 595's would connect to low 
> sided drivers (MPSA42 etc) to ground the required cathodes whilst the other 
> 595 would connect to high sided drivers (MPSA42+MPSA92 etc) to connect the 
> desired anode to the HV supply.
>
> I was then thinking that all anodes and cathodes would connect to 
> something like 80V via a suitable resistance - as per the Bally schematic 
> for driving multiplexed panaplex displays in pinball machines.
>
> As detailed here: bally_as2518_15_6digit.pdf (pinitech.com) 
> <https://www.pinitech.com/retrofit/schematics/bally_as2518_15_6digit.pdf>
>
> Am I anywhere near the right track on any of this?
>
> - Richard
>
>
> On Friday 3 November 2023 at 12:12:03 UTC David Pye wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Next time I do a clock, I am going to separate my hw into 2:
>>
>> A cheap ARM based MCU using SPI/DMA to do multiplexing and dimming, with 
>> enough IO to drive anodes and cathodes via individual transistors, with 
>> Comms to the main MCU via spi or i2c.
>>
>> An esp32 or esp8266 to provide application logic
>>
>> Using the ARM MCU and transistors solves the issues with the HV driver 
>> ICs needing 9v and both the STM32 and the esp8266 can communicate with 3v3 
>> signal levels and will be cheaper albeit with higher component count.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Fri, 3 Nov 2023, 11:15 Mike Mitchell,  wrote:
>>
>>> That's basically what I'm doing for my simple case.  The upkeep work is 
>>> done after tubes are energized, where I have significantly more time before 
>>> the next event.  The off time is only 200us so I don't do anything during 
>>> the off time.  With the fast processors of today you could do "quick" 
>>> things in the off time, but any complex c

Re: [neonixie-l] FS: Heathkit Nixie multimeter IM-1202 $20

[Jon Jackson]

Just sent you an email.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 8:17 AM John  wrote:

> This is a nice original condition meter that works... no additional holes,
> etc. Built like a tank for it's small size. Heath didn't spare any money on
> the enclosure.
>
> $20 plus actual shipping. * I use Pirate Ship for their significant
> discounts.* The farthest location from me in the US is probably
> Washington state, and shipping there is $15.  Anything closer will be
> cheaper.
>
> Packed with care and payment by Paypal or MO.
>
> Thank you!
>
> John
>
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> 
> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Jon]

I think the best approach would be to increase the HV. If you look at the 
discussions of glow physics in Weston or Acton for example, the lag in 
striking a glow from dark (which is what we're talking about here) is 
reduced by using an anode voltage materially above the threshold striking 
voltage. Overdrive is a matter of tube current rather than anode voltage 
per se, so a simple compensatory tweak to the current-limiting resistor 
value will get you back to the same tube current as now. The cost of the 
change will be a little extra power dissipated in the current-limiting 
resistors, but that should be immaterial in most circumstances.

Jon.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:27:11 AM UTC gregebert wrote:

> UV light source, such as from an LED ? 
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
>> had any luck with?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Fwd: World Kindness Day = 12 FREE doughnuts to share!

[Jon Jackson]

FYI

-- Forwarded message -
From: Krispy Kreme 
Date: Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 4:37 AM
Subject: World Kindness Day = 12 FREE doughnuts to share!
To: 


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Re: [neonixie-l] SP-252 Seeking drawings

[Jon Jackson]

Oh, probably not since I misread SP-252 as SP-352. Apologies !!


On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 7:04 AM Jon Jackson  wrote:

> Don't know if this will help:
> Sperry SP-352 and SP-332 Gas Discharge Clock Display pinouts from 1973
> catalog (attached).
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 3:04 AM Richard Scales 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello, there are indeed a few the line up - it's the ones that don't that
>> worry me the most!
>>  - RIchard
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 08:54:44 UTC Benoit Tourret wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Richard,
>>>
>>> have a look on the SP-351,
>>>
>>> https://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/datasheets/SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg
>>> [image: SP-351_SP-352-drawing-01.jpg]
>>> not the same number of digit, but some of the pins should be identical...
>>> On my SP-356, there is 0 aligned pins on a diagonal way. only in
>>> horizontal.
>>>
>>> Le samedi 4 novembre 2023 à 07:31:29 UTC+1, Richard Scales a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I used to so that but it relies on all the pins being straight and for
>>>> this particular display - there are 30+ pins in a very small space - the
>>>> more accurate the better - especially when it finally comes to plugging the
>>>> things in!
>>>> [image: TTPicture.JPG][image: PPpicture.JPG]
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the differences are so subtle it's not worth worrying about.
>>>> It's like staring at constellations! This group on the left seems a little
>>>> out of alignment when compared with the image from Sperry, it's counterpart
>>>> in the image for the character on the right looks more like my chart - yet
>>>> - from the data I have logged - the chart shows similar groupings for left
>>>> and right - is their image wrong ? is their data wrong?
>>>>
>>>> [image: DDpicture.JPG]
>>>>
>>>> When daylight comes I'll get eyes on the physical display though I fear
>>>> at my age - that may be the least helpful method!
>>>>
>>>> - Richard
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 06:09:25 UTC Audrey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You could scan the bottom of one using a scanner and convert to
>>>>> inches/mm using the DPI.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 2:04 AM Richard Scales 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm looking for any details of the pinout of the Sperry / Beckman
>>>>>> SP-252 Multi Segment display which are any better than the one that I 
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> over at tube-tester.com:
>>>>>> https://tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/SP-252/sp-252.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm making a footprint and need to get the pin positions as accurate
>>>>>> as possible. My usual process for this is to copy the pin positions into 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> spreadsheet and make a scattergram which should represent the pin
>>>>>> positions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This allows me to spot any obvious blunders. It's just that the image
>>>>>> I have is not that clear and there is some information missing (IMHO) so 
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> anyone can point me to anything better I would be most grateful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could not find it in the Sperry Information Systems catalogue for
>>>>>> which I already have a PDF.
>>>>>> - Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
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>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Symbols tube for Collector

[Jon Jackson]

>From my spreadsheet symbols should be E, K, M, R, Ω, ~, inverted ~, −, +

On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 3:57 AM Jeff Walton  wrote:

> I ran across a Burroughs B-6032 that might be good for a collector.  It
> partially functions at high voltage.  Date Code 6425.  I have not found a
> data sheet.  I don't have any real use for it and it is mechanically quite
> nice.  Anyway, If you are a symbols collector, send me note.
>
> Jeff
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: OG-3 VS OG-4

[Jon]

>From a quick look at the application, yes. OG4 will be perfectly happy with 
a 100Hz input.

Jon.

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 6:01:43 PM UTC+1 neonixie-l wrote:

> Hello,
> I want to make a dekatron clock.
>
> I found some schematics on http://959radio.co.uk/dekatron.html
>
> but here is my first question:
> in schematic http://959radio.co.uk/1Sec_Generator.pdf there are two OG-3 
> to reduce the 100 Hz to 1 Hz.
> Is it possible to use some OG-4 without the G3 input and corresponding 
> cabling ? the speed is not critical and I would like to keep the classical 
> orange glow instead of the argon.
>
> Regards,
> Benoit.
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] GTE175M Tubes

[Jon Jackson]

Very reasonable, Sold !!  Do I send the $40 to your usual Paypal account?

On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 4:12 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:

> $40 including shipping to you? I think that's reasonable given their
> rarity etc.
>
> Nick
>
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jon Jackson  wrote:
>
>> How much do you want for the 4?
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 3:20 PM Nicholas Stock 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone need any? I have 4 for sale.
>>>
>>> NIB.
>>>
>>> PM me if interested.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
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>> .
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Re: [neonixie-l] GTE175M Tubes

[Jon Jackson]

How much do you want for the 4?

Jon


On Sat, Sep 2, 2023 at 3:20 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:

> Anyone need any? I have 4 for sale.
>
> NIB.
>
> PM me if interested.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nick
>
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> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Seen these before?

[Jon]

Guessing they might've been used in petrol (gasoline) pump price displays? 
I have a childhood memory of watching what I now know to be a numitron 
display on the pump with a 1/2 oscillating on and off as the total mounted. 
Back when a 1/2p was actually a relevant concept with a physical coin too...

Jon.

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:02:39 AM UTC+1 Nicholas Stock wrote:

> [image: 20230821_164810.jpg]
>
> Nick
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] B49989 nixie

[Jon Jackson]

My spreadsheet says:

B-49989 = SK-176 socket -- characters V,R,A,T,Δ,C,G,L,N,S

Also, B-49990 = SK-176 socket -- characters W,H,E,C,Δ,T,U,B,D

Cheers

On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 7:31 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:

> Anyone know what letters this one displays? I have one here, but I can't
> locate a datasheet for it
>
> Thx,
>
> Nick
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Date codes on ETL GR10x tubes...

[Jon]

Ah, that's the *other* ETL! Electronic Tubes Ltd of High Wycombe as opposed 
to Ericsson Telephones Ltd of Beeston. It's the Ericsson ETL which makes 
the nixies, dekatrons etc.

Thanks Martin!

Jon.


On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 12:25:52 PM UTC+1 Dekatron42 wrote:

> It does look like Paul got his information from here: 
> https://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_hersteller_detail.cfm?company_id=9901
>
> /Martin
>
> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 11:06:10 UTC+2 Jon wrote:
>
>> Paul, would you mind sharing the basis for your comment about the 
>> post-1957 Mullard/ETL connection? I've done a lot of work on ETL history 
>> (visited what's left of their archives, talked to employees etc) and this 
>> is news to me.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 8:21:34 PM UTC+1 Paul Andrews wrote:
>>
>>> After 1957 ETL was owned by Mullard. The date codes for Mullard 
>>> (Philips) tubes are described here 
>>> <http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm>. It looks most likely that the 
>>> first digit is the year number, the second letter is the month. The one I 
>>> have is labelled 0B, which I would read as February 1960. Its a bit of a 
>>> mess though.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:15:02 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>>
>>>> >  but there is a set of 6 matched GR114/CD47s (will sell only as a 
>>>> set) 
>>>> > loads of NIMOs
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's going to be the auction of the century. 
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 10:06:59 AM UTC-7 Nick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for asking, but I really don't know yet. There's a HUGE number 
>>>>> of tubes to go through (many 1000s). A few of the exotica have been sold 
>>>>> to 
>>>>> other collectors, but there is a set of 6 matched GR114/CD47s (will sell 
>>>>> only as a set) amongst the stuff in the store, plus many other rare tubes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll start doing auctions in a few months and will provide early 
>>>>> warning here. Some of the stuff is extremely rare, including F9020, 
>>>>> NEO-5000M, NEO-8000, loads of NIMOs, Pandicons, Pixies, Panaplex, 
>>>>> Alphanumeric tubes etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 17:55:20 UTC+1 Robert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What would the cost be per tube, used or NIB?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Rob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 May 2023, at 17:40, 'Nick' via neonixie-l <
>>>>>> neoni...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So here's the thing: I'm rationalising my rather large nixie 
>>>>>> collection over the next few months I don't need lots of every nixie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm starting with a stash of ETL GR10Gs in varying condition - one 
>>>>>> has a broken 7 internally, 3 others are "dark" to the point of ... just 
>>>>>> useable... another 10 are in "used but good to OK condition" and the 
>>>>>> rest 
>>>>>> are NIB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They're a strange, early, tube, needing a Va of 250VDC and an Ra of 
>>>>>> only 10K for most digits, but 18K2 for the "1" and 14K7 for the "7", 
>>>>>> i.e. 
>>>>>> the 1 & 7 also have cathode resistors... They have no Hg doping, so the 
>>>>>> life of the tube under controlled circumstances is only 5,000 hours... 
>>>>>> Early stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they are a BEAUTIFUL tube... I mean, REALLY BEAUTIFUL (IMHO)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The date codes on them are just two characters, e.g. "OJ" or "RC" 
>>>>>> etc. Range of ETL logos too...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone have a decode table for these?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>>>>> send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/39c22549-5fab-417d-8518-7888e39cb62en%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/39c22549-5fab-417d-8518-7888e39cb62en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Date codes on ETL GR10x tubes...

[Jon]

Paul, would you mind sharing the basis for your comment about the post-1957 
Mullard/ETL connection? I've done a lot of work on ETL history (visited 
what's left of their archives, talked to employees etc) and this is news to 
me.

Thanks,

Jon.

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 8:21:34 PM UTC+1 Paul Andrews wrote:

> After 1957 ETL was owned by Mullard. The date codes for Mullard (Philips) 
> tubes are described here <http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm>. It 
> looks most likely that the first digit is the year number, the second 
> letter is the month. The one I have is labelled 0B, which I would read as 
> February 1960. Its a bit of a mess though.
>
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 1:15:02 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>
>> >  but there is a set of 6 matched GR114/CD47s (will sell only as a set) 
>> > loads of NIMOs
>>
>> Well, that's going to be the auction of the century. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 10:06:59 AM UTC-7 Nick wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for asking, but I really don't know yet. There's a HUGE number of 
>>> tubes to go through (many 1000s). A few of the exotica have been sold to 
>>> other collectors, but there is a set of 6 matched GR114/CD47s (will sell 
>>> only as a set) amongst the stuff in the store, plus many other rare tubes.
>>>
>>> I'll start doing auctions in a few months and will provide early warning 
>>> here. Some of the stuff is extremely rare, including F9020, NEO-5000M, 
>>> NEO-8000, loads of NIMOs, Pandicons, Pixies, Panaplex, Alphanumeric tubes 
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 30 May 2023 at 17:55:20 UTC+1 Robert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> What would the cost be per tube, used or NIB?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>> On 30 May 2023, at 17:40, 'Nick' via neonixie-l <
>>>> neoni...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So here's the thing: I'm rationalising my rather large nixie 
>>>> collection over the next few months I don't need lots of every nixie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm starting with a stash of ETL GR10Gs in varying condition - one has 
>>>> a broken 7 internally, 3 others are "dark" to the point of ... just 
>>>> useable... another 10 are in "used but good to OK condition" and the rest 
>>>> are NIB.
>>>>
>>>> They're a strange, early, tube, needing a Va of 250VDC and an Ra of 
>>>> only 10K for most digits, but 18K2 for the "1" and 14K7 for the "7", i.e. 
>>>> the 1 & 7 also have cathode resistors... They have no Hg doping, so the 
>>>> life of the tube under controlled circumstances is only 5,000 hours... 
>>>> Early stuff.
>>>>
>>>> But they are a BEAUTIFUL tube... I mean, REALLY BEAUTIFUL (IMHO)...
>>>>
>>>> The date codes on them are just two characters, e.g. "OJ" or "RC" etc. 
>>>> Range of ETL logos too...
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have a decode table for these?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/39c22549-5fab-417d-8518-7888e39cb62en%40googlegroups.com
>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/39c22549-5fab-417d-8518-7888e39cb62en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Date codes on ETL GR10x tubes...

[Jon]

I can help, Nick - will PM you. Long-timers here will remember that almost 
15 years ago now I did a lot of work on the ETL date code. Dekatrons were 
my focus, but it's the same code used on all ETL tubes, including these 
lovely nixies.

Jon.

On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 5:40:48 PM UTC+1 Nick wrote:

> So here's the thing: I'm rationalising my rather large nixie collection 
> over the next few months I don't need lots of every nixie.
>
> I'm starting with a stash of ETL GR10Gs in varying condition - one has a 
> broken 7 internally, 3 others are "dark" to the point of ... just 
> useable... another 10 are in "used but good to OK condition" and the rest 
> are NIB.
>
> They're a strange, early, tube, needing a Va of 250VDC and an Ra of only 
> 10K for most digits, but 18K2 for the "1" and 14K7 for the "7", i.e. the 1 
> & 7 also have cathode resistors... They have no Hg doping, so the life of 
> the tube under controlled circumstances is only 5,000 hours... Early stuff.
>
> But they are a BEAUTIFUL tube... I mean, REALLY BEAUTIFUL (IMHO)...
>
> The date codes on them are just two characters, e.g. "OJ" or "RC" etc. 
> Range of ETL logos too...
>
> Anyone have a decode table for these?
>
> Thanks
>
> Nick
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: This little beauty arrived today!

[Jon]

> Okay not sure about US made but I guess I meant to say not Soviet, and 
theoretically then more reliable. 

Actually, if it's reliability you want in high speed dekatrons, then the 
Rodan ones are probably the best going. Much better in my experience than 
the US (Sylvania, Raytheon) ones. I'd expect this one to have Rodan DK23s 
in it.

Jon.

On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 11:45:14 PM UTC+1 Nick Andrews wrote:

> Okay not sure about US made but I guess I meant to say not Soviet, and 
> theoretically then more reliable.  I'll open it up this weekend and look.  
> Need to try and figure out the Jones connector, if it's for an external 
> timer or what.
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 5:32 PM Dekatron42  wrote:
>
>> Are you sure they are US made Dekatrons, I have a few of this model and 
>> they have all been equipped with Rodan Dekatrons made in Japan.
>>
>> The most common failure in this counter is the high voltage electrolytics 
>> being poor, high ESR or dried out.
>>
>> No manual unfortunately but it is a very simple design.
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>> On Thursday, 4 May 2023 at 23:45:37 UTC+2 Nick Andrews wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/234989555348
>>>
>>> I don't have a probe at the office, but the dekatrons come on and spin 
>>> around.  It's mesmerizing!  They stop when you hit reset, so that's good.  
>>> Looks like it has a built-in HV supply up to 1200V.  Also has a Jones 2x3 
>>> connector on back for something or other.  Pretty sweet to get 5 US-made 
>>> dekatrons that appear to work.
>>>
>>> Don't suppose anyone might have a manual for this?
>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] NIMO

[Jon D.]

Do you have a source for the green NE-2s with the internal white phosphor ?

On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 9:33:26 AM UTC-6 gregebert wrote:

> I'm using green NE-2 bulbs. Internal phosphor is white; glows green when 
> energized. The lifetime isn't as long as gas-only bulbs, so be sure to 
> mount on a plug-in card.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWUcURQvQsY
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2023 at 7:42:56 AM UTC-7 jörg wrote:
>
>> Is there a green-glow flathead indicator tube available? 
>> Size like the MTX-90 Thyratron or smaller. I would like to use them as 
>> colons for separating H:M:S.
>>
>> On Saturday, April 1, 2023 at 9:42:51 PM UTC+2 jörg wrote:
>>
>>> A short update to my NIMO project.
>>> Meanwhile I've put the tubes in a 3D resin printed frame.
>>> The print is not perfect, but very promising.
>>> I'm very pleased with this setup.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some pictures:
>>> [image: IMG_2890.jpeg] [image: IMG_2880.jpeg] [image: IMG_2879.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:41:56 PM UTC+2 jörg wrote:
>>>
 Yes, this is the clock from Roger.
 And he is the guy, who helped me out with one tube, becaue one of mine 
 was outgassed.
 Again, thank you very much selling me one.
 His is the leftmost one in the video, it is a BA -P31 
 (blueish-green), whereas mine are 6000-92-0006 (yellow-green). 
 And the font is slightly diffent to the others.

 And, @all please take it not too serious, the clock is for sure not the 
 worlds first 6 tube nimo clock, as it is not the most dangerous one...

 http://lampes-et-tubes.info/cd/cd085.php
 https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=943


 On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 4:37:18 PM UTC+2 Dekatron42 wrote:

> Nice to see one more 6 digit Nimo clock!
>
> There's at least one other 6 digit Nimo clock that was shown on 
> Youtube about a year ago: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA1oeqavMg8=3s
>
> /Martin
>
> On Tuesday, 27 September 2022 at 16:13:27 UTC+2 gregebert wrote:
>
>> Really nice work!   Congratulations on being the first 6-tube NIMO 
>> clock I've ever seen or heard of.
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 1:58:53 AM UTC-7 jörg wrote:
>>
>>> Just a small update,
>>> I've made a short video regarding the build of my 6 tube nimo clock.
>>> And thank's a lot to astroschmidt to sell me one of his nimo's to 
>>> complete my clock.
>>> You sure will see his nimo in the video. 
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhWgG5TKMg
>>>
>>> All the best to gregebert project and his brand new nimo's.
>>> On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 1:24:27 PM UTC+2 
>>> w...@kitsunegari.net wrote:
>>>
 On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 3:09:46 PM UTC+2 jörg wrote:

> So, if there is someone in the group, who is willing to sell a 
> nimo which might join the other five, pls. pm me.


 You could ask Fran Blanche
 She's got a few Tubes and only has 1 in use and not enough to build 
 a clock.
 Maybe she's willing to part with one "for science".
 Tell her you're building a 6-tube clock and she's your only hope...
 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMLgHbpJ8qYqj3CkdbvC0Ww
  

>>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Fake GC10Bs - Actually GC10As

[Jon]

Yes, these tubes are what the Industrial Alchemy guys dubbed the 
'transitional tube'. But that's not the case - it was just their 
speculation.

There seems to be a batch of these things floating around, though Nick may 
have fully cornered it now :). All are marked in the same way - note the 
absence of manufacturer name and date code. On a small minority of tubes 
from the batch it is possible to make out residues of previous standard 
Ericsson GC10A markings - another chap from here and I did a bit of work on 
that together some years back as we had both come across examples. Given 
that observation and that these things look and behave just like GC10As 
(same colour glow, same slow max speed etc), I think Occam's razor guides 
us strongly towards the tube washer rather than the novel tube...

Having said that, there *was *a developmental tube made en route to the 
definitive GC10B. But it wasn't marked like this and the glow colour is 
neon orange not purple/pink.

Jon.

On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 12:19:41 PM UTC padlernped...@gmail.com wrote:

> This article from industrialalchemy.org might offer an explanation. They 
> could be these “transitional” GC10Bs. 
>
> https://www.industrialalchemy.org/articleview.php?item=1118
>
> -Randy
>
> On Mar 11, 2023, at 9:45 PM, Nicholas Stock  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Fellow lovers of all things neon...
>
> I have a bunch of GC10As that are actually rebranded GC10Bs. They're still 
> NOS and functional, but aren't infact GC10B's evidently this was a case 
> of an unscrupulous individual or individuals back in the day with a load of 
> GC10A's on their hands after the superior GC10B hit the market and deciding 
> to 'rename' them. Anyway, I have some for sale at $15 each. Let me know if 
> you're interested via private email.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nick
>
>
> [image: IMG_3614 Large.jpeg]
>  
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[Jon Jackson]

@jörg,
No, I have not yet built anything. Just "scoping" out where this will take
me.

On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 5:14 AM jörg  wrote:

> @Jon,
> yes, I will share the code. I have moved it to the VS Code IDE with
> PlatformIO. I do not like the Arduino IDE much. It should run on david's
> hardware, too.
> Do yo you have build the hardware already?
>
> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:12:46 AM UTC+1 David Forbes wrote:
>
>> I was able to change to a Teensy 4.1 with a 2 channel 12 bit SPI DAC in
>> my latest version. I had to reduce the DAC rate by half. It looks just as
>> good as the old version. Of course, the DAC I chise is already unobtanium.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 7:17 AM jörg  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, maybe a bit offtopic.
>>>
>>> I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the scope clock based
>>> on david forbes one.
>>> The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware for a while.
>>>
>>> But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 internal DAC's,
>>> I was curious to get the stuff up and running on the faster teensy 4.x CPU.
>>> In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 channels DAC. The
>>> usage of a serial DAC was too slow and I did not get DMA up and running on
>>> teensy4.x.
>>> Anyway, this works and I like it.
>>>
>>> Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> .
>>>
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[neonixie-l] Re: ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[Jon D.]

Jörg,

Do you plan to release your design and code?  I have a Teensy 4.0 I haven't 
used yet and would be interested in what you did.

Jon


On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 7:36:02 AM UTC-7 Paul Andrews wrote:

> That looks great
>
> On Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 9:17:42 AM UTC-5 jörg wrote:
>
>> Hi, maybe a bit offtopic.
>>
>> I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the scope clock based 
>> on david forbes one.
>> The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware for a while.
>>
>> But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 internal DAC's, 
>> I was curious to get the stuff up and running on the faster teensy 4.x CPU.
>> In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 channels DAC. The 
>> usage of a serial DAC was too slow and I did not get DMA up and running on 
>> teensy4.x.
>> Anyway, this works and I like it.
>>
>> Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Mystery Tube

[Jon]

I think it was only Ericsson that used that B26A base on nixies?

Jon.

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 4:37:23 AM UTC Nicholas Stock wrote:

> Looks very much like that Ericsson lab sample Jens. What voltage did you 
> test yours at? A quick plasma globe test didn't show any gas ionization, so 
> I fear it has leaked at some point (or wasn't a functional sample...).
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 8:25 PM jb-electronics  
> wrote:
>
>> Neatm looks like an Ericsson lab sample: 
>> http://www.jb-electronics.de/html/elektronik/nixies/n_rd125.htm . Where 
>> did it come from? Jens
>>
>> On 2023-02-21 10:58 p.m., Nicholas Stock wrote:
>> > Any ideas? No gas by the looks of it though
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>>
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>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] thyraton & dekatron

[Jon]

Welcome Ben, good to have you here.  It's a bit difficult to know where to 
start with your question on dekatrons without writing pages of stuff which 
might not be on point. A good start might be to get hold of a copy of 
Electronic Counting Circuits by JB Dance - that has a long chapter on 
dekatrons and related tubes, and there are scans floating around (can't 
remember if we have one here). Are there specific tubes you want to 
understand better?

Jon.

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 10:14:24 PM UTC Terry Bowman wrote:

>
> On Jan 26, 2023, at 4:48 PM, Benoit Tourret  wrote:
>
> I am looking for information about Dekatron device "as a compute device", 
> what are the main differences between all the models, 
> and also about the thyraton mtx-90.
> what was their first usage and so on...
>
>
> I'd like to know more about the MTX-90 as well. Have you seen these?:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/175204420312
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>
> “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it 
> said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.”—Carl 
> Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", *Cosmos*, 1980
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Single Digit Clock Designs

[Jon]

I think Laurence Wilkins' Cyclox design takes a lot of beating for a 
classic one tube clock.

Jon.

On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 8:15:47 AM UTC Paolo Cravero wrote:

> Hello Zachary.
> I am more confident with electronics rather than case design. But once you 
> master the electronics side of Nixie circuits you get more time to think of 
> the exterior.
>
> In November 2022 I came up with the single-digit clock in the attached 
> picture. From zero to delivery to a teen impressed by our living room Nixie 
> clock, in 4 weeks. Laser cut and 3D print can be a game changer for those, 
> like me, who have little chances to do mechanical work (skills, tools, 
> room/garage). Yes, it's a black PCB sandwiched two laser cut shapes: 70% of 
> design time at the computer went into my first OpenSCAD modeling experience.
>
> It's a journey. As long as the electronics are small enough they can be 
> re-seated in a different case later on. 
>
> Looking forward to seeing your result!
> Paolo
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 1:53 AM Zachary  wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I've recently ordered a nixie tube and decided on making a one digit 
>> clock.
>>
>> However when looking for inspiration online for the case of the clock 
>> I've noticed that there is practically no images of single digit clocks. 
>> All of the ones that I could find were mostly just transparent cases or 
>> uncovered PCBs.
>>
>> If anyone has made a single digit clock in the past, do you mind sharing 
>> your design for inspiration?
>>
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>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: just wondering what these tubes G10/241E go for

[Jon]

Not quite what I said. At the top end of the condition range, by 'a few 
tens of dollars'  I was indicating something in the $20 - $50 region 
depending on the specifics of the particular tube and market appetite at 
that time. G10/241E is not a common tube, but it's also not a real rarity.

Having said all of that, there's always some eBay seller who'll put a $75+ 
price tag on a tatty 'untested' (but very likely dead) tube, and hope to 
get a bite... But those usually don't sell. Never to me anyway :)

Jon.

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 11:38:05 AM UTC jaspern...@gmail.com wrote:

> ok thanks so a mint tube would only cost 5-10$?
>
> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 10:12:36 AM UTC Sgitheach wrote:
>
>> I have two G10/241E and both are dead unfortunately but physically 
>> intact.
>>
>> Grahame
>> On 23/12/2022 09:14, Jon wrote:
>>
>> Primarily a tube collector item I'd suggest. They're fiddly to drive and 
>> the display is much less visually striking than other dekatron types, so 
>> there's not a lot one can do with them in the direction of a clock or 
>> similar. And then there's the question of condition - many G10/241E don't 
>> work now, even if they're apparently NIB (there's a 'death in storage' 
>> problem that afflicts many high speed dekatron types including this one). 
>> And the metal base shell is prone to cracking and falling off the tube 
>> which is cosmetically unattractive. 
>>
>> So a scraggy tube without proof of function is pretty worthless IMHO. At 
>> the other end, a tested mint tube in the original box is probably a few 
>> tens of dollars, depending on how interested the small pool of likely 
>> buyers is at that moment. If you've got one of these you might want to 
>> sell, you're welcome to PM me some pictures and I'll try to give some more 
>> specific input - I've done quite a bit of historical research on these 
>> tubes. They're actually a really early solution to the counting tube 
>> problem, but one which largely lost out in commercial use to the more 
>> elegant and flexible Ericsson designs.
>>
>> While we're on the subject of STC counting tubes, does anyone have a 
>> working G10/240E (note different number) that they'd be interested to sell? 
>> PM me if so!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 2:11:26 AM UTC jaspern...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> thanks
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: just wondering what these tubes G10/241E go for

[Jon]

Primarily a tube collector item I'd suggest. They're fiddly to drive and 
the display is much less visually striking than other dekatron types, so 
there's not a lot one can do with them in the direction of a clock or 
similar. And then there's the question of condition - many G10/241E don't 
work now, even if they're apparently NIB (there's a 'death in storage' 
problem that afflicts many high speed dekatron types including this one). 
And the metal base shell is prone to cracking and falling off the tube 
which is cosmetically unattractive.

So a scraggy tube without proof of function is pretty worthless IMHO. At 
the other end, a tested mint tube in the original box is probably a few 
tens of dollars, depending on how interested the small pool of likely 
buyers is at that moment. If you've got one of these you might want to 
sell, you're welcome to PM me some pictures and I'll try to give some more 
specific input - I've done quite a bit of historical research on these 
tubes. They're actually a really early solution to the counting tube 
problem, but one which largely lost out in commercial use to the more 
elegant and flexible Ericsson designs.

While we're on the subject of STC counting tubes, does anyone have a 
working G10/240E (note different number) that they'd be interested to sell? 
PM me if so!

Cheers,

Jon.

On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 2:11:26 AM UTC jaspern...@gmail.com wrote:

> thanks

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: presentation of GR-43015 and enquiry on Siemens nixies

[Jon Jackson]

[image: image.png]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 6:48 PM Jon Jackson  wrote:

> "⏦" U+23E6: Ac Current (Unicode Character):
>
> https://unicodeplus.com/U+23E6
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 3:47 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 8, 2022, at 5:19 PM, Terry Bowman  wrote:
>>
>> Gorgeous. I'm jealous. 8D
>>
>>
>> Follow up: everyone has the M1183 listed as having the characters "Ω, +,
>> –, [sine with horizontal line]".
>>
>> It's my understanding that the last character indicates AC current (as
>> with the inverted sine). If anyone can tell me what the unicode or UTF-8
>> number for "sine with horizontal line" is I'd be very happy.
>>
>>
>> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
>> "The Mac Doctor"
>>
>> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>>
>> "Would you like to see the relevant data?"—343 Guilty Spark, *Halo 2*
>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: presentation of GR-43015 and enquiry on Siemens nixies

[Jon Jackson]

"⏦" U+23E6: Ac Current (Unicode Character):

https://unicodeplus.com/U+23E6





On Sat, Oct 8, 2022 at 3:47 PM Mac Doktor  wrote:

>
> On Oct 8, 2022, at 5:19 PM, Terry Bowman  wrote:
>
> Gorgeous. I'm jealous. 8D
>
>
> Follow up: everyone has the M1183 listed as having the characters "Ω, +,
> –, [sine with horizontal line]".
>
> It's my understanding that the last character indicates AC current (as
> with the inverted sine). If anyone can tell me what the unicode or UTF-8
> number for "sine with horizontal line" is I'd be very happy.
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>
> "Would you like to see the relevant data?"—343 Guilty Spark, *Halo 2*
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
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> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/C9DEC928-C544-4122-8E4C-D124153168E7%40gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: OT request - the grim reaper approaches

[Jon]

Hear, hear... Well said Nick.

Jon.

On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 12:41:15 AM UTC Pramanicin wrote:

> Morton, very very sorry to hear that. Not sure what else to say. I'm sure 
> everyone here on the list would join me in saying we wish the best for both 
> yourself and John and your respective families going through very tough 
> times.
>
> Best,
>
> Pharma Nick (mod)
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 3:55 AM Morton Denison  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I'm in the same situation.
>>
>> After 2 years of radiation and 5 types of chemo, the chemo doctor told me 
>> that it's the end of the road as well.
>>
>> Each night when I go to bed, I'm wondering if the light at the tunnel 
>> will get bright.
>>
>> God bless you,
>> Mort
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 7:45:55 PM UTC-5 gregebert wrote:
>>
>>> John - I'm sure the rest of us feel the same way, but I'm really torn-up 
>>> inside about your future, versus you sharing it with us now so we can offer 
>>> our help and support. You've been on this forum long before me and continue 
>>> to be one of it's high-value contributors. Take care and know that neonixie 
>>> will be in good hands and that we're all here for you. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 2, 2022 at 9:26:58 AM UTC-8 Nixcited delighted wrote:
>>>
>>>> As many of you know, I have been a moderator of this group for some 
>>>> years. I now have an average of six months left to live. I am not having 
>>>> any more cancer chemo, which would only give me another six months even if 
>>>> I did.
>>>>
>>>> I don't mind dying, it is the sadness of leaving my wife Jean alone 
>>>> that really cracks me up. Paul Parry of Bad Dog Design in the UK came up 
>>>> with a great idea. I send Paul some envelopes addressed to my wife and 
>>>> once 
>>>> I am pushing up the daisies, these will be sent out from random locations, 
>>>> at random times, over the coming years. I rather like this idea. A couple 
>>>> of other Nixie friends have generously offered to help, Simon Law in 
>>>> Australia and Michail Wilson in the US.
>>>>
>>>> I am in the UK and what I would like to do is to find a few people in 
>>>> other distant lands and far off kingdoms who could also take and send few 
>>>> random cards for me. I am not expecting people to do this for free, I 
>>>> would 
>>>> paypal appropriate funds in advance. My son Alex will trigger the event 
>>>> and 
>>>> let people know when I no longer inhabit the planet. He will also let 
>>>> people know if my wife moves house.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone might help, could they please contact me off list?
>>>>
>>>> Love to my fellow nixie friends,
>>>>
>>>> John S
>>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
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>> .
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: NL988

[Jon D.]

Looks very similar to the NL-989 over/under symbols tube which has A,K,M on 
top and C,V, Ω  on bottom.  I can see an M on top and a V on bottom in the 
photo, but I cannot tell if there are other characters in your NL-988 -- 
perhaps none.

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 10:07:48 AM UTC-7 Bill Notfaded wrote:

> That's really neat tube.
>
> Bill
>
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 11:29:44 AM UTC-7 Pramanicin wrote:
>
>> Anyone have a datasheet on the NL988 nixie tube? I have one. It's a 
>> top/bottom type symbol tube with an NL5440/5441 type body and pinout.
>>
>> [image: IMG_3084.JPG][image: IMG_3083.JPG]
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Stuck with a stuck dekatron

[Jon]

To Eric's question on the N3...

These are also rather tricky tubes. My experience is similar to Martin's - 
unfortunately many examples of N3 are non-functional in that they won't 
even strike a glow - outgassed or similar. I fear that if you can't raise a 
glow with a violet ray unit or plasma globe then yours may be dead :(

But if you do find a working N3 or N4, then the conditions below work for 
me:

   - Va = +350V with respect to main cathodes
   - Transfer pulses 30V amplitude from a resting bias +15V with respect to 
   main cathodes
   - Anode current 1.6mA (82K anode resistor, 8K2 cathode resistors)

It's quite an unusual design with relatively low anode and transfer 
electrode voltages. If the anode voltage or current is too high, it's easy 
to get multiple cathodes glowing instead of just one which can mess up the 
stepping.

Jon.


On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 10:04:53 PM UTC Jon wrote:

> The sticking on K10 specifically is a peculiarity of the 6167 in my 
> experience. I believe it's distinct from the sleeping sickness effect that 
> Martin describes as that is essentially random in which cathodes are 
> affected (and as he says, working the tube, possibly at elevated current, 
> in both directions where possible, is usually an effective cure).
>
> I mostly saw K10 sticking when I was exploring a circuit that makes use of 
> the unique auxiliary anode connection (pin 5) which of course lies adjacent 
> to K10. What seems to be happening was that when the glow gets to K10 there 
> is current flow from both the main anode and auxiliary anode. The next 
> transfer pulse moves the glow onto the transfer electrode, but when it 
> terminates the auxiliary anode-K10 gap is still sufficiently primed so that 
> the glow mostly steps back to K10 rather than forward to K1. I was able to 
> mitigate this by reducing the auxiliary anode potential below what I'd 
> originally understood it needed to be from the datasheet (the datasheet is 
> really opaque on this point), and also by lengthening the transfer pulse to 
> allow more deionisation time.
>
> However, if I understand Paolo's post, he's using Mike Moorrees's circuit (
> https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/we6167ckt.gif) which 
> leaves the auxiliary anode disconnected. When I ran 6167s in this 
> configuration they were generally much more reliable in not sticking on 
> K10, though I was using rather different circuit conditions:
>
>- Va = +400V with respect to main cathodes
>- Transfer pulses 60V amplitude from a resting bias +30V with respect 
>to main cathodes
>- Anode current 1.3mA
>
>
> Paolo, can you confirm you have indeed left pin 5 unconnected? If so, 
> given that the sticking effect seems to be increasing with tube use, I 
> wonder if we're seeing the floating auxiliary anode gradually charging up 
> and eventually reaching a potential which is disrupting the stepping 
> operation. Maybe use a potentiometer or potential divider to pin the 
> auxiliary anode at some moderate voltage positive to the main cathodes (say 
> +100V as a starting point) and see if that helps?
>
> They're funky tubes...
>
> Jon.
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 8:37:58 AM UTC Paolo Cravero wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>> I am stuck with a stubborn WE-6167 dekatron (
>> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/6167.pdf seems to be the 
>> only document available).
>>
>> The tube is NIB made in 1958. I understand it is a single guide dekatron, 
>> and the stepping cathodes are split in two groups 1-5 and 6-10.
>>
>> I built the circuit as per Mike's diagram (
>> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/6167.pdf) and it span 
>> correctly. I let it run for few minutes and then it got stuck at K10. 
>> Through the glass I can see that it attempts to jump ahead, but the main 
>> glow stays on K10. Fiddling with wires I could get it have one round up to 
>> K10. The more it runs the more it gets stickier. The relaxation oscillator 
>> never stops.
>>
>> I suspected some resistor overheating or changing value, but even after 
>> hours of power-off, it doesn't go beyond K10. Or it simply powers up at K10 
>> and doesn't step over, while it does visually try to jump.
>>
>> Voltages are 450V/225V (input at 12V is 220 mA). Anode current is 1 mA (I 
>> increased the anode resistor to 250k) while the current coming out of the 
>> active cathode(s) is 1.5 mA. Stepping goes from 200V down to 2V (green 
>> trace). Anode voltage (450 V) doesn't sag noticeably and inductor+IRF get 
>> barely warm. The yellow trace in the oscilloscope shot is  measured at the 
>> "+58V" point (yes, I did try to move that voltage up and down with no 

[neonixie-l] Re: Stuck with a stuck dekatron

[Jon]

The sticking on K10 specifically is a peculiarity of the 6167 in my 
experience. I believe it's distinct from the sleeping sickness effect that 
Martin describes as that is essentially random in which cathodes are 
affected (and as he says, working the tube, possibly at elevated current, 
in both directions where possible, is usually an effective cure).

I mostly saw K10 sticking when I was exploring a circuit that makes use of 
the unique auxiliary anode connection (pin 5) which of course lies adjacent 
to K10. What seems to be happening was that when the glow gets to K10 there 
is current flow from both the main anode and auxiliary anode. The next 
transfer pulse moves the glow onto the transfer electrode, but when it 
terminates the auxiliary anode-K10 gap is still sufficiently primed so that 
the glow mostly steps back to K10 rather than forward to K1. I was able to 
mitigate this by reducing the auxiliary anode potential below what I'd 
originally understood it needed to be from the datasheet (the datasheet is 
really opaque on this point), and also by lengthening the transfer pulse to 
allow more deionisation time.

However, if I understand Paolo's post, he's using Mike Moorrees's circuit (
https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/we6167ckt.gif) which 
leaves the auxiliary anode disconnected. When I ran 6167s in this 
configuration they were generally much more reliable in not sticking on 
K10, though I was using rather different circuit conditions:

   - Va = +400V with respect to main cathodes
   - Transfer pulses 60V amplitude from a resting bias +30V with respect to 
   main cathodes
   - Anode current 1.3mA


Paolo, can you confirm you have indeed left pin 5 unconnected? If so, given 
that the sticking effect seems to be increasing with tube use, I wonder if 
we're seeing the floating auxiliary anode gradually charging up and 
eventually reaching a potential which is disrupting the stepping operation. 
Maybe use a potentiometer or potential divider to pin the auxiliary anode 
at some moderate voltage positive to the main cathodes (say +100V as a 
starting point) and see if that helps?

They're funky tubes...

Jon.


On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 8:37:58 AM UTC Paolo Cravero wrote:

> Hello.
> I am stuck with a stubborn WE-6167 dekatron (
> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/6167.pdf seems to be the 
> only document available).
>
> The tube is NIB made in 1958. I understand it is a single guide dekatron, 
> and the stepping cathodes are split in two groups 1-5 and 6-10.
>
> I built the circuit as per Mike's diagram (
> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/6167.pdf) and it span 
> correctly. I let it run for few minutes and then it got stuck at K10. 
> Through the glass I can see that it attempts to jump ahead, but the main 
> glow stays on K10. Fiddling with wires I could get it have one round up to 
> K10. The more it runs the more it gets stickier. The relaxation oscillator 
> never stops.
>
> I suspected some resistor overheating or changing value, but even after 
> hours of power-off, it doesn't go beyond K10. Or it simply powers up at K10 
> and doesn't step over, while it does visually try to jump.
>
> Voltages are 450V/225V (input at 12V is 220 mA). Anode current is 1 mA (I 
> increased the anode resistor to 250k) while the current coming out of the 
> active cathode(s) is 1.5 mA. Stepping goes from 200V down to 2V (green 
> trace). Anode voltage (450 V) doesn't sag noticeably and inductor+IRF get 
> barely warm. The yellow trace in the oscilloscope shot is  measured at the 
> "+58V" point (yes, I did try to move that voltage up and down with no 
> difference).
>
>
> Then I opened a second new in box WE-6167. It ran correctly for a minute, 
> perhaps 100 rounds, then it started hiccupping (I think between K5 and K6) 
> and finally got stuck on K10 with the flicker towards the stepping cathode.
>
> It must be something with these tubes. Does anyone remember a similar 
> behaviour in never used dekatrons? I've read of deks needing a high current 
> "preparation", but not of them failing after a good start. I would like to 
> get out of the K10 position!
>
> Thanks,
> Paolo
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Beautiful pilot pre-production sample of the Soviet tube IN12

[Jon]

Alexander - really interesting, thank you for sharing the photos. Does the 
prototype tube have a date code on it?

Jon.

On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 12:47:48 PM UTC krieg...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: 123.jpg]
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: GC10/4B darkening

[Jon]

Hi Terry,

I can help out with this, no problem. I'll PM you.

Jon.

On Tuesday, December 21, 2021 at 3:30:08 AM UTC Terry S wrote:

> Sorry -- the tube is a GS10C/S.
>
> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 9:11:11 PM UTC-6 Terry S wrote:
>
>> I have a decatron clock I bought from a member here -- very neat piece 
>> that emulates an analog clock on the decatron face. I used a roll-top teak 
>> floppy holder for the clock case and it's a thing of beauty.
>>
>> The clock and the GC10/4B ran for years, no hiccups, but in the last 6 
>> months the tube became almost non-viewable. The face has silvered or 
>> darkened. 
>>
>> I can still see the glow from the side of the tube just fine.
>>
>> I don't imagine there is any correcting the darkening.
>>
>> Anyone have a nice GC10/4B lurking in their stash for a reasonable price?
>>
>> Terry
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Jon Ellis Dekatron clock is done

[Jon]

Hi Peter - if you're interested in a Dekachron kit, just PM me to talk 
about the options.

Keith and Nick have done amazing jobs with those enclosures! Both are 
definitely slicker than the design I had, and give totally different takes 
on the clock. Keith's design looks really 50s to me, which is of course 
totally on point for the heyday of the tubes...

Jon.


On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 3:10:17 PM UTC+1 peter@gmail.com wrote:

> Are there kits available? If so where can you purchase one?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 12, 2021 at 10:37:26 PM UTC-4 martin martin wrote:
>
>> Here's another from Ian!
>> https://youtube.com/shorts/4Tp9uGHBhuw?feature=share
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~
>> *mcve...@gmail.com*
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 2:27 PM Nicholas Stock  wrote:
>>
>>> I took a different path because I am a broken record and like to see my 
>>> gubbins inside.
>>>
>>> It's a great clock, if you haven't made one, then talk to Jon!
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2689.jpg][image: IMG_2690.jpg][image: IMG_2691.jpg][image: 
>>> IMG_2692.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:31 AM Keith Moore  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jon Ellis' wonderful clock kit showed up here in neonixie a while ago. 
>>>> I love my dekatrons and my spinners and such, but they don't get out much 
>>>> into the visible homestead due to some rule about feng shui, or dangling 
>>>> HV, wires or some other so called "rules". 
>>>>
>>>> I loved this idea and planned to use the case that Jon designed. 
>>>> Unfortunately, his supply of the cases ran out. I can totally relate to 
>>>> this in trying to keep a good supplier for acrylic laser cut services is 
>>>> hard, too. 
>>>>
>>>> I had this simple vision for a mid-century design using a recycled box 
>>>> that I had. I've saved lots of cool boxes over the years for these sorts 
>>>> of 
>>>> things. It took a bit of alignment/centering cheating in order to get the 
>>>> cap on the end of it, but I do like how it came out.
>>>>
>>>> Jon suggested that I share it here, so
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_0012.JPG]
>>>>
>>>> -- 
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>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/62c167c6-cabd-4b9d-b3f2-0aa6c6b7f9a4n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
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>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
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>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAOX%2BRHKt6%2B%3D-WvW4gszu8NWVqP4Dx0n5bkSQhCi9yWgLsBLJcw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Interesting all-transistor clock with analogue dividers

[Jon]

Neat design. Thanks for sharing Mike.

Jon.

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 6:13:51 PM UTC+1 Ira wrote:

> Also known as stairstep generators. Commonly used to step the base 
> current, in such things as Tektronix transistor curve tracers, while the 
> collector is being swept. Ira.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/16/2021 6:29 AM, 'John Rehwinkel' via neonixie-l wrote:
>
> Ananlogue dividers??? Do you mean perhaps hetrodyne mixers?
>
>
> No, they're more like pulse accumulators with thresholds:  after N pulses, 
> the threshold is reached and it dumps the accumulator capacitor and pulses 
> the output.
>
> - John
>
> -- 
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>  
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/649958B7-3D8C-4C10-9315-2D34AAE4F9BB%40mac.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Interesting all-transistor clock with analogue dividers

[Jon]

I don't actually see any content here?

Jon.

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 10:12:46 AM UTC+1 mikeselectricstuff 
wrote:

> neoni...@googlegroups.com
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Data Time nixie clock

[Jon]

Paolo makes a great point! It'd be a cool extra talking point about the 
item if it had indeed been made during those weird 3 years when the UK 
government was running the time zone experiment.

Jon.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 10:43:08 AM UTC+1 Paolo Cravero wrote:

> Hi.
> According to this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Summer_Time 
> , between "27 October 1968 and 31 October 1971" UK was on GMT+1. So, 
> depending on the year the clock was made, it could be correct indeed!
>
> The same analysis should be done for Portugal, that is currently on the 
> same timezone of UK.
>
> Paolo
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 11:26 AM Dekatron42  wrote:
>
>> Maybe the auction text explains why the UK is not in the GMT time zone: "It 
>> is a special edition #01-687 and is patent pending, so I assume this is a 
>> 1st edition and #687 made." - maybe they hadn't realized the error in 
>> this early "special edition"!?  :'-) :'-) 
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>> On Tuesday, 31 August 2021 at 10:25:40 UTC+2 Jon wrote:
>>
>>> The drawing of time zones onto the world map is a bit uh, approximate. 
>>> They've managed to exclude the UK from the GMT zone which is a pretty 
>>> foundational problem!
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:55:20 AM UTC+1 Terry Bowman wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 30, 2021, at 9:01 AM, Terry S  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been watching these for years on ebay. Finally snagged one last 
>>>> night -- I hope I didn't beat out one of you with my last second bid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mine was the third highest. I stumbled across it in a "you might also 
>>>> like" section somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Now if only I could afford to have my Kilburg Geochron refurbished. I 
>>>> got it for $20 at a hamfest 25 years ago. Has two Vietnams on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
>>>> "The Mac Doctor"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>>>>
>>>> “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, 
>>>> it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close 
>>>> up.”—Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", *Cosmos*, 1980
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
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>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/2ad28a90-0ffa-46f5-ac05-f79e7ebd4fb8n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/2ad28a90-0ffa-46f5-ac05-f79e7ebd4fb8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Data Time nixie clock

[Jon]

The drawing of time zones onto the world map is a bit uh, approximate. 
They've managed to exclude the UK from the GMT zone which is a pretty 
foundational problem!

Jon.

On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 4:55:20 AM UTC+1 Terry Bowman wrote:

>
>
> On Aug 30, 2021, at 9:01 AM, Terry S  wrote:
>
> I've been watching these for years on ebay. Finally snagged one last night 
> -- I hope I didn't beat out one of you with my last second bid.
>
>
> Mine was the third highest. I stumbled across it in a "you might also 
> like" section somewhere.
>
> Now if only I could afford to have my Kilburg Geochron refurbished. I got 
> it for $20 at a hamfest 25 years ago. Has two Vietnams on it.
>
>
> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> "The Mac Doctor"
>
> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>
> “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it 
> said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.”—Carl 
> Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", *Cosmos*, 1980
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] GARGANTUAN Nixie

[Jon]

Simply brilliant. Chapeau.

Jon.

On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 8:51:52 AM UTC+1 M1 wrote:

> Can’t find that it was posted here or not.
>
>  
>
> Ron is at it again.
>
>  
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6SUaZ8PLeI
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Michail Wilson
>
> 206-920-6312 <(206)%20920-6312>
>
> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Z502S Decatron

[Jon]

If you were wanting something in the clock direction, you could look at 
adapting my Dekachron design (
https://groups.google.com/g/neonixie-l/c/Fe1yqXzWa_I/m/3vj9yGqIBAAJ) for 
the Z502S. The board is set up for GC10B et al so you'd need to figure an 
off-board mounting for the Z502S and wiring to make them look to the 
circuit like GC10Bs. But from an electrical point of view I don't see any 
reason why it would not work fine.

Jon.

On Friday, August 6, 2021 at 11:00:43 AM UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:

> Thank you for that, I have some of your spinners already - I shall 
> investigate.
> - Richard
>
>
> On Friday, 6 August 2021 at 05:25:23 UTC+1 threeneurons wrote:
>
>>
>> The Z502S is the same as the Sylvania 6476 & Ericsson GC10C. There are 
>> all kinds of circuits that can use it. Here's my dekatron page:
>> https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/dekatron-stuff/
>>
>> I just finished a analog meter circuit for dekatrons, that does not 
>> require a microcontroller. Its crude, but very simple, relatively speaking:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9y0P83Tv7Y
>> On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 11:00:43 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>>> I have a number of Mullard Z502S Decatrons in N.O.S. condition and would 
>>> love to put them to good use though I am struggling to find details of any 
>>> projects that use this kind of decatron apart from the simple spinner 
>>> circuit on the tube-tester.com site.
>>> Can anyone point me towards any projects that use this decatron type?
>>>  - Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B-7971 single tube device

[Jon Blaylock]

Fantastic use of nixie

On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 1:49 AM newxito  wrote:

> Great job, beautiful case!
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie would like to introduce himself

[Jon]

Welcome Rich!

Jon.

On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 7:56:35 PM UTC+1 Dekatron42 wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Welcome to the forum!
>
> /Martin
>
> On Wednesday, 4 August 2021 at 20:39:55 UTC+2 nice...@optonline.net wrote:
>
>>   Hello everybody! I'd like to introduce myself to all. My name is 
>> Rich Nicewonger and I am a retired electronics technician. I worked in the 
>> field of power and energy measurement instrumentation for 40 years at a 
>> leading NJ company. Gas discharge displays have always interested me. In 
>> fact, the company I worked for used Beckman displays in some of their 
>> products! My particular interest is not necessarily clocks (although I do 
>> have a nixie version) but more toward calculators and test equipment using 
>> these type of displays. I am always a sucker for more of these that may 
>> require some work to be operational. Sometimes I shoot myself in the foot 
>> because of the difficulty in finding replacement parts for 50+ year old 
>> equipment, especially displays! I hope to get some insight from 
>> knowledgeable folks here. So, looking forward to having some interesting 
>> and useful conversations.
>> My best to all,
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Red Coated Tubes

[Jon]

On Wednesday, July 28, 2021 at 7:27:47 PM UTC+1 Terry Bowman wrote:
> I read something recently about hiding the blue glow as well. I've 
wondered about that.

I think that was a major part of it. Looking at ETL's documentation for 
their nixies (which they called Digitrons), they only offer the red filter 
option on their long life tubes (ie those with the mercury blue haze) and 
they say: "amber or red tinted filters making Long Life Digitrons appear 
identical with other Digitrons". For general contrast enhancement on all 
tubes they recommend using a circular polarised filter.

Jon.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Best boost converter up from 5v?

[Jon]

Another upvote for the TaylorEdge ones - I've used them in a variety of 
designs over many years and they're great. Decent direct support from the 
designer too. I am happy to design my own switchers but I only bother now 
for dekatron circuits or other  oddball things. For regular nixie needs, 
it's very difficult to match the price/performance/board economy of John's 
work, so I've come to the conclusion that my time is better deployed 
elsewhere :)

Jon.

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 10:38:11 PM UTC+1 m.baad...@gmail.com wrote:

> Oh those also look very nice and price is decent! Although shipping is 
> also $14
> This will be my go-to if I can't find a seller I am willing to trust on 
> those NCH8200HV ones.
>
> On Monday, 28 June 2021 at 22:26:31 UTC+1 jrehwin wrote:
>
>> Yea simple question, I want to make a nixie clock with 4x IN-12's and I 
>> want to keep the circuit simple. 
>> Something akin to this: 
>> Youtube.com 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObgmVNV1Kfg_channel=GreatScott%21>
>>
>> Not sure if I should provide 12v to my circuit and use a linear regulator 
>> to step down for logic to 5v like in the video, or if I can just provide 5v 
>> directly and pick a boost converter based on that.
>>
>>
>> I like the TaylorEdge ones, they're compact, and a solid, professional 
>> design.  Available in vertical and horizontal mounting to accommodate 
>> varying packaging requirements.
>>
>> - John
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Cheapest 6-digit edge lit clock so far

[Jon Jackson]

I bought one of these a few months back.  Mine works great and keeps time
right in (relative) line with my GPS clocks.

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 11:14 AM gregebert  wrote:

> I took the bait today and bought the version with the assembled PCB. Total
> cost is $38.11 US including shipping. I cant even procure the individual
> parts for that price. I'm pretty sure the DS3231 is fake, so it's still a
> bargain even if I have to replace it .
>
> On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 6:12:40 PM UTC-8 w...@kitsunegari.net
> wrote:
>
>> Mine will be delivered in the next few days.
>> Anyone else order it?
>>
>> On Thursday, December 31, 2020 at 1:06:49 AM UTC+1 Yohan Park wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for posting the link to the manual
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 8:11:46 PM UTC+1 dixter wrote:
>>>
 incase you can't see the manual...  Banggood list it too but couldn't
 find the manual there...
 the link for download
 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Usx9toq8RxTBTbHdNiELmnl6TB7ykVim/view

>>> --
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> 
> .
>

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[neonixie-l] OPT OUT !!! Amazon devices to automatically share your Internet with neighbors

[Jon Jackson]

Alexa users beware...

OPT OUT !!! Amazon devices to automatically share your Internet with
neighbors_29-May-2021 | Ars Technica
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/amazon-devices-will-soon-automatically-share-your-internet-with-neighbors/

JJ1

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekachron - new dekatron clock

[Jon]

Michail wrote:

> Looking forward to the kit.

Yes - to Michail's point and also to those who've emailed me asking the 
same question, there are a handful of Dekachron kits available now. Several 
different options from a full kit including tubes and the enclosure in the 
video down to PCB and components only. If anyone is interested or has 
questions, send me a private message so we don't clutter the group chat 
with that stuff.

Jon.


>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekachron - new dekatron clock

[Jon]

The design needs the tubes to run at 4kpps to get all of the persistence of 
vision effects to work smoothly. In the video you're looking at ETL GC10B 
and GC12/4B - the clock auto-configures itself to work fine with any mix of 
those and equivalents (GC10/4B, CV2271, Z303C) and Sylvania 6802. Although 
I've described it as a H:M:S display, actually you can assign any function 
(including cool visual effects) to any tube in software, so it's very 
flexible.

The common Russian neon dekatrons (A101, OG4, OG9) won't work however, at 
least per datasheet, as their max speeds are not high enough. And the octal 
base tubes have a different pin-out (but that's a trivial change, 
obviously).

Jon.

On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 7:10:28 PM UTC+1 gregebert wrote:

> What speed are you running the dekatrons ?
>
> On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 10:57:30 AM UTC-7 iavine wrote:
>
>> That is a cool design
>>
>> On 16 May 2021, at 17:10, Jon  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> The discussion in a recent thread about different glow patterns on a 
>> dekatron reminds me that it’s high time I shared with you my latest clock… 
>> This is Dekachron, a 3 tube dekatron clock.
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> Just to explain what’s going on here - Dekachron uses a rather different 
>> way of displaying time than the approach used by most dekatron clocks (eg 
>> those by Ronald Dekker and Andreas Reinert). Typically one would have tubes 
>> arranged in pairs like a nixie clock, indicating the hours (tens and 
>> units), minutes (tens and units) and maybe seconds too. The position of the 
>> glowing dot on the dekatron display denotes the digit value. So we’d 
>> display 08:25 like this:
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> However, Dekachron uses its dekatrons as a series of analogue clock 
>> faces, one for hours, one for minutes and one for seconds. On each one it 
>> lights up a sector of the circular display that corresponds to the position 
>> of the relevant hand on a traditional analogue clock. So Dekachron displays 
>> 08:25 like this:
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> It's surprisingly easy to read with a little practice, because it taps 
>> into how you learned to tell the time as a child. Displaying the time in 
>> this way allows us to get a H:M:S display with only three tubes and also 
>> opens the door to all kinds of funky visual effects, some of which are 
>> shown in this short video (https://youtu.be/5LtvPJZnqM8).
>>
>>  If anyone is interested to build a Dekachron, a few kits are available – 
>> PM me.
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/86cfd127-5ef7-4d34-9ee7-9d151b78a07an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Decatron lighting up pins without lighting up some in between.

[Jon]

Two possibilities for this... First is the time-lapse / persistence of 
vision type effect already referred to. If the tube is spinning fairly 
quickly the camera exposure doesn't have to be intentionally manipulated to 
come up with images like this. See for example a couple of photos I posted 
here last autumn (https://groups.google.com/g/neonixie-l/c/gMBvFi4fQCw). 
Those are just what the camera served up on an auto setting, and indeed 
what the tubes look like to the naked eye.

Second, someone is abusing the tube by simply putting HV across it either 
without a current limiting resistor or with a fairly low value one that is 
letting the tube pass say 5-10mA. Most likely the tube is connected with 
the HV on the anode and then either the first or second guide array 
grounded, with all other pins left floating. There's a seller on eBay who 
has a couple of A101 listings with such images, and in those you can see in 
the background that they've only got two connections to the tube rather 
than the 4 you would need to actually spin it properly. It's not a great 
thing to do to the tube, though probably not going to cause any real damage 
if it's only for a few seconds.

Jon.


On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 4:41:25 PM UTC+1 Kevin A. wrote:

> Yup my money is on long exposure photography. 
>
> On Sun, May 9, 2021, 11:34 AM gregebert  wrote:
>
>> Most likely a time-lapse exposure with each of the 10 cathodes 
>> sequentially grounded, and the 2 steering cathodes floating.
>>
>> Though I've never tried it, you might be able to get multiple parallel 
>> cathodes to light simultaneously. I doubt they would glow this uniformly, 
>> but you never know until you try it. Similar for a traditional nixie with 
>> all cathodes energized, which is a blurry mess.
>>
>> On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 8:15:12 AM UTC-7 Phill S wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't think this was actually possible but then I saw this ?
>>> What magic is going on here ? I am at a loss.
>>>
>>> [image: decatron.jpg]
>>>
>> -- 
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/dcfa8bf9-ef22-4bd4-a24c-4cf18e08cadfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Neon Lamp Matrix

[Jon Jackson]

Copy that...

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 2:42 PM Tidak Ada  wrote:

> Oops, a typo.It is ZM1215 of course as the file name says.
> eric
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
> Op 5 mei 2021 om 22:36 heeft Jon Jackson  het
> volgende geschreven:
>
> 
> is this a ZM1251 or ZM1215 ??  You have conflicting info...
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 2:29 PM Tom Harris  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the ideas but it was definitely static with the pulses just
>> used to turn the lamps on or off. After that they would keep their state
>> indefinitely.
>>
>> Tom Harris 
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 01:21, gregebert  wrote:
>>
>>> If it was pulsed-DC, then it probably was simple multiplexing.
>>>
>>> I have thought about doing it with AC, which makes the driver more
>>> complex, but it will make the bulbs last longer since both electrodes will
>>> be illuminated (alternately, of course). Not sinusoidal AC, but
>>> square-waves. If you do the math, a typical neon bulb is "on" for about 2/3
>>> of an AC cycle (on at 90V, off at 60V) so that would be my starting point
>>> for multiplexing. I was thinking a 7 x 9 matrix, using 2:1 multiplexing.
>>> It's more driving circuitry but it might be possible with an HV-series
>>> device that can drive high and low.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:46:13 AM UTC-7 celephicus wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can someone please help me out, I remember an article from some scanned
>>>> book from the 60s where a set of neon lamps were connected in a matrix with
>>>> clever biasing and pulses on the row & column could toggle an individual
>>>> lamp. I thought it was the GE glow lamp manual but it seems not.
>>>>
>>> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Neon Lamp Matrix

[Jon Jackson]

is this a ZM1251 or ZM1215 ??  You have conflicting info...

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 2:29 PM Tom Harris  wrote:

> Thanks for the ideas but it was definitely static with the pulses just
> used to turn the lamps on or off. After that they would keep their state
> indefinitely.
>
> Tom Harris 
>
>
> On Thu, 6 May 2021 at 01:21, gregebert  wrote:
>
>> If it was pulsed-DC, then it probably was simple multiplexing.
>>
>> I have thought about doing it with AC, which makes the driver more
>> complex, but it will make the bulbs last longer since both electrodes will
>> be illuminated (alternately, of course). Not sinusoidal AC, but
>> square-waves. If you do the math, a typical neon bulb is "on" for about 2/3
>> of an AC cycle (on at 90V, off at 60V) so that would be my starting point
>> for multiplexing. I was thinking a 7 x 9 matrix, using 2:1 multiplexing.
>> It's more driving circuitry but it might be possible with an HV-series
>> device that can drive high and low.
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:46:13 AM UTC-7 celephicus wrote:
>>
>>> Can someone please help me out, I remember an article from some scanned
>>> book from the 60s where a set of neon lamps were connected in a matrix with
>>> clever biasing and pulses on the row & column could toggle an individual
>>> lamp. I thought it was the GE glow lamp manual but it seems not.
>>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B7971 DUSTOFF Board Interest

[Jon Jackson]

Mahdi,

I would be interested in a second DUSTOFF board for my daughter down the
street.  I could send her simple greetings and updates.

Jon



On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 9:33 AM Peter Doroba  wrote:

> Knock, knock. LOL
>
>
> On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 9:40:55 AM UTC-5 Peter Doroba wrote:
>
>> No worries. Thanks!
>>
>> Pete
>>
>> On Thursday, February 25, 2021 at 1:36:06 AM UTC-5 Mahdi Al Husseini
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Peter (and Bill and others),
>>>
>>> I owe you all some information, which I will get to this weekend. I
>>> apologize - I have been out of country for work related reasons, and have
>>> been away from my workstation, for much of the past few months. Finally, I
>>> have returned home. Be in touch soon.
>>>
>>> Mahdi
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:53 AM Peter Doroba 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any updates?
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, December 21, 2020 at 4:36:57 AM UTC-5 wayneco wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m down for two, more if it can be a generic data receiver and
>>>>> display, I have been wanting something like that, Burroughs nixie based
>>>>>  for a long, long time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 17, 2020, at 08:24, Peter Doroba  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Any luck moving the remaining merch? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, December 5, 2020 at 10:07:20 PM UTC-5 Peter Doroba wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay, count me in for a board.  Good luck with the training!  Seems
>>>>>> we're into the same things just in different order.  I'm working on
>>>>>> learning microcontroller programming and PCB design.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 5, 2020 at 9:39:29 AM UTC-5 Mahdi Al Husseini
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, Peter, very cool! I have my commercial and instrument ratings in
>>>>>>> rotary aircraft (and am working on my commercial multi engine FW). 
>>>>>>> Possibly
>>>>>>> ATP one day - we’ll see!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, all of what you are requesting can be done seamlessly, though
>>>>>>> it requires a wifi network that you can connect to, to be available.
>>>>>>> Shouldn’t be a problem if you live at an airport!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have one other interested individual, but need one more in order
>>>>>>> to make putting another batch in worthwhile (the $300 cost is near
>>>>>>> production cost, so it’s a loss if I can’t sell at least of four of 
>>>>>>> five).
>>>>>>> I will let you know if that happens by email
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mahdi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 8:37 AM Peter Doroba 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Great! I'd likely take you up on the code help offer.  I did start
>>>>>>>> out as an EE major in college but switched to Aeronautical Science 
>>>>>>>> when I
>>>>>>>> got the flying bug. :)  I'm a Spirit Airlines Captain and live on an
>>>>>>>> airport so the the METAR/TAF feature really speaks to me. LOL  Maybe a
>>>>>>>> silly question but the board can display the current date and time
>>>>>>>> correct?  Can it be configured to display both local and UTC  in turn?
>>>>>>>> Also, how often is the WX data displayed?  Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 4, 2020 at 10:49:02 PM UTC-5 Mahdi Al Husseini
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes of course! Currently, it will immediately select the closest
>>>>>>>>> airport based on longitude and latitude data, but it is very easy to 
>>>>>>>>> adjust
>>>>>>>>> the code to select a particular airport ID. I can help with that as 
>>>>>>>>> needed.
>>&g

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: SZ-3 Nixie - Chemical Symbols!

[Jon]

Beautiful photos Yan, and thank you for sharing the data. Does your 
databook have any information on the Chinese dekatrons?

Jon.


On Thursday, April 15, 2021 at 5:02:43 AM UTC+1 Toby Thain wrote:

> On 2021-04-14 11:47 p.m., gregebert wrote:
> > I'm guessing this nixie tube was used in equipment for monitoring
> > impurities in a steel plant.
> > 
>
> (Those are all electronics symbols)
>
> > On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 6:46:55 PM UTC-7 严泽远 wrote:
> > 
> > This one marked QS30-75, but I think it's the same one with QS30-7A:
> > 
> > 
> IMG_7739.JPGIMG_7730.JPGIMG_7731.JPGIMG_7732.JPGIMG_7733.JPGIMG_7734.JPGIMG_7735.JPGIMG_7736.JPGIMG_7737.JPGIMG_7738.JPG
> > 
> > 在2021年4月15日星期四 UTC+8 上午3:49:12 写道：
> > 
> > Hi Folks!
> > 
> > I was contacted by a friendly guy that offered me datasheet
> > scans of the chines SZ-2 and SZ-3. When i first heard SZ-3, i
> > was thinking about the well known SZ3-1 numerical nixie, but
> > later i was told that this one has special symbols, and also the
> > datasheet shows so.
> > 
> > Since i found no info's about this tube, and apparently this
> > tube is undocumented, i thought i share the images with you. See
> > attaches some photos the guy sent me. Look at this interesting
> > nixie tube that indicates chemical symbols!
> > 
> > Someone seen this before?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com>.
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> > 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/aeb7bd36-9e71-4a2c-8c47-425d617dca4cn%40googlegroups.com
> > <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/aeb7bd36-9e71-4a2c-8c47-425d617dca4cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer
> >.
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lighting all digits at the same time: Why does this happen?

[Jon]

You're putting AC across the tube? In addition to what Paul said, think 
about the scenario in the negative half-cycles. There you've got ten 
'anodes' (the display digits, normally cathodes) each with their own 
resistor pouring current through one 'cathode' (the normal anode box/grid), 
which is definitely not sized for that current flow nor designed to have 
the glow on it bombarding its surface with lots of energetic particles. So 
all bets are off on tube behaviour in my view.

In either polarity of the cycle,  the common electrode might be seeing 
22.5mA through it if your initial calculation holds. But very likely it 
doesn't, because that calculation assumes the normal tube maintaining 
voltage which I would have no confidence in being the case under these 
conditions. If the maintaining voltage drops significantly when the tube is 
run like this, then your current flow will be even more than you calculate. 
Maybe that's how you get to 9W.

Ouch. Wouldn't bother putting that tube in a clock!

Jon.


On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 10:34:06 PM UTC+1 Paul Andrews wrote:

> You should calculate the anode resistor you need for one segment. Use 
> that, then connect all the cathodes to ground. I have done this many times 
> accidentally.  Now the hand waving part: Imagine the connection between the 
> anode and cathode is a resistor and you connect all of the cathodes 
> together - you are putting all of those resistors in parallel. You are 
> limiting the current on each one to 2.25mA, so you are pumping 22.5mA 
> through the one tube. I get that to be about 2W - (230-140)*0.0225.
>
> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 4:11:49 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>
>> Very interesting; thanks for posting.
>>
>> You might want to try successive numbers of lit cathodes, say 01, then 
>> 012, then 0123, etc and see how the current increases, and also see if it 
>> changes over time due to heating.
>>
>> I dont recall seeing this behavior with segmented tubes, like the 7971. 
>> In fact, on my clock I have a current regulator on each cathode, and 
>> another one for the anode, for every tube.that works out to 128 current 
>> regulators on that clock.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 12:18:08 PM UTC-7 Bill van Dijk wrote:
>>
>>> Just a guess, but I think by lighting them all up you get some kind of 
>>> “super ionization” in the tube, which could then increase the current and 
>>> heat dissipation.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Yohan Park
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 31, 2021 3:15 PM
>>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>>> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] Lighting all digits at the same time: Why does 
>>> this happen?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I have a few Chinese QS30-1 tubes lying around which don't have much 
>>> value for me and was wondering how it would look to have all digits lit at 
>>> the same time.
>>> So I looked up the specs which say 170V and 2.25mA
>>> So I calculated the needed resistor to have it hooked up to 230V which 
>>> is a little below 27K
>>> I then connected a 27K resistor to one cathode and it lit perfectly fine 
>>> (230V AC so the anode also glows).
>>> So I then connected 10x 27K resistors to all the cathodes and plugged it 
>>> in.
>>> Holy Moly! The thing lit up like crazy and was drawing over 9 Watts and 
>>> was getting VERY hot. So I turned it off again after a few seconds.
>>> Can anyone tell why it's behaving like that?
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: ZM1200

[Jon]

These are from May 1970 and Feb 1971 I think.

Jon.

On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 7:53:44 PM UTC Robert wrote:

> I have two here, one branded RTC and one Mullard Holland, both have tags 
> inside, one reads 9172 and the other 11482 with these codes
>
>
>
>
> On 15 Mar 2021, at 19:40, tntmod54321  wrote:
>
> For sure, US nixies cost so much at this point. 
>
>
> On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 3:39:11 PM UTC-4 Pramanicin wrote:
>
>> I'd say they didn't make *enough*..although, thank  
>> that Russia, Ukraine etc kept making nixies for years past their 
>> 'time'1992 is the latest date IN14 tube I havethat's *nuts*.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:01 PM Kevin A.  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's heartbreaking, but I have hope that the neon community will save as 
>>> many as possible, and light them up for all to enjoy! 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 2:50 PM tntmod54321  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why would you say that? Now I wont be able to stop thinking about 
>>>> that...
>>>> On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 2:47:24 PM UTC-4 gregebert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> and I've always wondered how many nixie tubes ended-up in 
>>>>> landfills.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 10:42:37 AM UTC-7 Robert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How many of these were made, approx? 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks 
>>>>>> Rob 
>>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
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>>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] NIXIE TUBE SOCKETS

[Jon]

Not sure the IN14 spacers on their own help the OP's question.

As I understand it, ZM1000 do have pins and were (unusually) designed to be 
either soldered in or socketed. You can still find the original sockets for 
sale - a quick Google throws up this listing as the first hit: 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZM1000-Nixie-Tube-Socket-/302926727122 (usual 
disclaimers apply).

IN14 and IN16 have wire terminals designed to be soldered and I am not 
aware of any original sockets for these. The wires are quite soft and 
flexible. I'd imagine they wouldn't have the mechanical rigidity to work 
well as pins even if cut short - very likely to bend. If you are absolutely 
set on socketing these tubes, then one way might be to 3D print a custom 
spacer to arrange the wires into a DIL array (ie two parallel rows of 
connections each 0.1" apart, the rows spaced 0.3" apart), cut the ends of 
the wires so you have 5mm or so protruding from the spacer, and then insert 
the assembly into a 14 or 16 pin ZIF socket (available from Mouser, Farnell 
etc, but also on eBay much cheaper).

I've not tried it - suspect it'd just be a lot simpler and possibly cheaper 
to buy two sets of tubes - one to solder in and one to keep as a reserve! 
They don't fail very often in a properly designed circuit.

Jon.

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 7:18:30 AM UTC nonprof...@gmail.com wrote:

> IN14 have some original plastic spacer that you can buy easily.
>
> śr., 3 mar 2021 o 07:51 MrThe50sanchez  napisał(a):
>
>>
>> Hello everyone ! 
>>
>> what kind of Nixie tube sockets do you recommend?
>>
>> I'm using IN-16 / IN-14 and ZM1000 nixie tubes for my clocks, and I'm 
>> wondering if you can recommend me any kind of sockets to avoid soldering 
>> the nixie tubes to the PCB, I would love to have a quick release for the 
>> tube's in case of mal function.
>>
>> Thanks a lot!! 
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron for Demo Display

[Jon]

>No, unfortunately not, no hard figures - maybe Jon has.

I've done a bit more digging in the literature on this topic, and found 
basis for an operating life exceeding 100K hours for the ETL low speed 
tubes if all the various pieces of advice on how to keep the tubes happy 
are followed. End of life is application dependent as we've discussed - 
there's no cliff-edge failure, it's really when the progressive aging of 
the tube parameters becomes an issue for the specific circuit it's being 
used in, and the stepping starts to fail. A typical spinner where the tube 
is just whirling away at fairly low speed with long guide pulses of the 
specified amplitude and timing may pretty much go on indefinitely.

Jon.

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 8:56:34 PM UTC Jon wrote:

> Yes, the double pulse situation is the relevant one here - the other two 
> on the datasheet refer to specific valve circuit configurations that were 
> used at that time to generate the guide pulses. Modern components make the 
> job much easier in most ways. The datasheet recommended conditions call for 
> guide pulses of 80V +/- 10V amplitude, negative going, from a baseline of 
> +36V (the guide bias voltage). A swing from +40V to -40V will do the trick 
> just perfectly.
>
> As discussed earlier in the thread, there is quite some latitude around 
> these conditions, particularly for 'new' or lightly used tubes. In my 
> experiment a +25V to -25V swing worked fine, even up to the full spec 
> counting speed once it had woken up a bit from being asleep for decades. 
> But that was a NIB tube. I suspect that your other dekatron has seen more 
> use and/or is more deeply asleep, so for that one you'll maybe have to get 
> closer to the datasheet spec. And maybe start with longer pulses. I'll PM 
> you on a couple of additional details.
>
> Jon.
>
> On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 4:00:55 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I found a reference:
>> http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-132.htm
>> that explains the difference. So I am using double pulse rather than an 
>> integrated single pulse to get the delay.
>> The data sheet implies I should be using -80v pulses to drive the rings. 
>> I guess I will up the drive voltage when my optocouplers arrive. I ordered 
>> 80v ones, perhaps I should have ordered the 300v ones. Oh well, another $8 
>> shipping if I must.
>> Some useful parts from DigiKey:
>> MOC8050M-ND optocoupler 80v
>> SFH619A-ND optocoupler 300v
>> HM4682-ND Hammond 186C120 transformer to isolate my CRT clock that is 
>> live to line. It has dual primaries and I will see if I can use it 
>> backwards to get two 120v outputs isolated from line (which will only work 
>> for 120v power in Canada/USA)
>> 497-2344-5-ND  ULN2003A 7 segment driver for Vacuum Fluorescent displays, 
>> stepper motors, relays. Observe voltage ratings. There is an 8 transistor 
>> version as well.
>> Peter
>>
>> On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 10:27:29 AM UTC-5 peter bunge wrote:
>>
>>> I tried another Dekatron but I'm not sure what it is, and it doesn't 
>>> work. The glow just flickers back and forth on adjacent elements.
>>> This tube looks a bit like the GS10C/S but has no markings, has a metal 
>>> base, and the end is domed instead of flat. It fits the same socket and 
>>> appears to have guide rings.
>>> My high voltage optocouplers don't arrive until this afternoon and I 
>>> have already tried +/- 25v which is 30v above the rating of the optocoupler 
>>> I am using. They have not blown, yet. 
>>> I am trying to understand the data sheet for the GS10C/S, looking at 
>>> recommended operating conditions: 
>>> What does double pulse drive-amplitude mean?
>>> What does Integrated pulse drive amplitude mean?
>>> I just finished re-reading Ronald Dekker's description of how it works 
>>> and his experiments.
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 3:09 AM Jon  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good to hear - another successful neon spinny thing!
>>>>
>>>> Jon.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 10:55:59 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I tried my new circuit with the optocouplers using 270k for R5 & R6 
>>>>> and 1k for R3 & R4.
>>>>> It works within the limits of +0v and about -22v. It is interesting 
>>>>> that the other circuit did not work for low + bias. It must be the slower 
>>>>> positive edge as someone mentioned. I will use about +30 and -30v, 
>>>>> whatever 
>>>>> the r

Re: [neonixie-l] USB connector shield

[Jon]

Very neat! Glad you got it all working.

Jon.

On Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 10:49:21 PM UTC newxito wrote:

> The little project is now working. It’s not the most exciting gadget of 
> the world but at least I learned something about USB connectivity. 
> When the PC goes to sleep or is turned off, the MCU gets a signal from the 
> FT230X IC and turns off the high voltage. 
> With the 3 nixies turned on, the consumption is about 300 mA, so no 
> problem. 
> I’ve programmed a little service for the PC side that sends the 
> performance counter data even when nobody is logged on. 
> To get 99% CPU usage, I let Blender render the classroom demo.
>  
> I will put the board into a 3D printed case and that’s it. Since, 
> surprisingly, everything works as expected, there will be no revision 2... 
> but maybe an IN-13 version...
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron for Demo Display

[Jon]

Yes, the double pulse situation is the relevant one here - the other two on 
the datasheet refer to specific valve circuit configurations that were used 
at that time to generate the guide pulses. Modern components make the job 
much easier in most ways. The datasheet recommended conditions call for 
guide pulses of 80V +/- 10V amplitude, negative going, from a baseline of 
+36V (the guide bias voltage). A swing from +40V to -40V will do the trick 
just perfectly.

As discussed earlier in the thread, there is quite some latitude around 
these conditions, particularly for 'new' or lightly used tubes. In my 
experiment a +25V to -25V swing worked fine, even up to the full spec 
counting speed once it had woken up a bit from being asleep for decades. 
But that was a NIB tube. I suspect that your other dekatron has seen more 
use and/or is more deeply asleep, so for that one you'll maybe have to get 
closer to the datasheet spec. And maybe start with longer pulses. I'll PM 
you on a couple of additional details.

Jon.

On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 4:00:55 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:

> I found a reference:
> http://www.r-type.org/articles/art-132.htm
> that explains the difference. So I am using double pulse rather than an 
> integrated single pulse to get the delay.
> The data sheet implies I should be using -80v pulses to drive the rings. I 
> guess I will up the drive voltage when my optocouplers arrive. I ordered 
> 80v ones, perhaps I should have ordered the 300v ones. Oh well, another $8 
> shipping if I must.
> Some useful parts from DigiKey:
> MOC8050M-ND optocoupler 80v
> SFH619A-ND optocoupler 300v
> HM4682-ND Hammond 186C120 transformer to isolate my CRT clock that is live 
> to line. It has dual primaries and I will see if I can use it backwards to 
> get two 120v outputs isolated from line (which will only work for 120v 
> power in Canada/USA)
> 497-2344-5-ND  ULN2003A 7 segment driver for Vacuum Fluorescent displays, 
> stepper motors, relays. Observe voltage ratings. There is an 8 transistor 
> version as well.
> Peter
>
> On Thursday, February 18, 2021 at 10:27:29 AM UTC-5 peter bunge wrote:
>
>> I tried another Dekatron but I'm not sure what it is, and it doesn't 
>> work. The glow just flickers back and forth on adjacent elements.
>> This tube looks a bit like the GS10C/S but has no markings, has a metal 
>> base, and the end is domed instead of flat. It fits the same socket and 
>> appears to have guide rings.
>> My high voltage optocouplers don't arrive until this afternoon and I have 
>> already tried +/- 25v which is 30v above the rating of the optocoupler I am 
>> using. They have not blown, yet. 
>> I am trying to understand the data sheet for the GS10C/S, looking at 
>> recommended operating conditions: 
>> What does double pulse drive-amplitude mean?
>> What does Integrated pulse drive amplitude mean?
>> I just finished re-reading Ronald Dekker's description of how it works 
>> and his experiments.
>> Peter
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 3:09 AM Jon  wrote:
>>
>>> Good to hear - another successful neon spinny thing!
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 10:55:59 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I tried my new circuit with the optocouplers using 270k for R5 & R6 and 
>>>> 1k for R3 & R4.
>>>> It works within the limits of +0v and about -22v. It is interesting 
>>>> that the other circuit did not work for low + bias. It must be the slower 
>>>> positive edge as someone mentioned. I will use about +30 and -30v, 
>>>> whatever 
>>>> the rectified transformer gives.
>>>> This is my preliminary software. It only counts up at present from 0 to 
>>>> 9 fast (10Hz) slowing down to 1Hz then repeating.  The delay between the 
>>>> steering pulses depends on the speed so at 1 Hz you can actually see every 
>>>> pin lit. I thought it a waste to not see them. I have not fully tried this 
>>>> software, only a Dekatron test version, so if there are errors please 
>>>> forgive me. There is a BCD version that also works. I may add a "Spinner" 
>>>> between 0 to 9 counts in place of the 2 second delay, 1 second forwards 
>>>> and 
>>>> 1 second backwards.
>>>>  // main loop
>>>>while (1) // loop endlessly
>>>>{
>>>>  for(j=1;j<=10;j++)// sets the delays
>>>> {
>>>>  for(i=0;i<=9;i++) // the BCD digit displayed (Nixies, 
>>>> etc)
>>>>  {
&g

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron for Demo Display

[Jon]

Good to hear - another successful neon spinny thing!

Jon.

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 10:55:59 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:

> I tried my new circuit with the optocouplers using 270k for R5 & R6 and 1k 
> for R3 & R4.
> It works within the limits of +0v and about -22v. It is interesting that 
> the other circuit did not work for low + bias. It must be the slower 
> positive edge as someone mentioned. I will use about +30 and -30v, whatever 
> the rectified transformer gives.
> This is my preliminary software. It only counts up at present from 0 to 9 
> fast (10Hz) slowing down to 1Hz then repeating.  The delay between the 
> steering pulses depends on the speed so at 1 Hz you can actually see every 
> pin lit. I thought it a waste to not see them. I have not fully tried this 
> software, only a Dekatron test version, so if there are errors please 
> forgive me. There is a BCD version that also works. I may add a "Spinner" 
> between 0 to 9 counts in place of the 2 second delay, 1 second forwards and 
> 1 second backwards.
>  // main loop
>while (1) // loop endlessly
>{
>  for(j=1;j<=10;j++)// sets the delays
> {
>  for(i=0;i<=9;i++) // the BCD digit displayed (Nixies, etc)
>  {
> // generate clock and BCD
>   output_high(pin_C4);// high for 10 uS 
>  delay_us(10);
>   output_low (pin_C4);// end pulse
>   portC = i;// output BCD
> // Dekatron clocking
> output_high(pin_A5);// steering ring 1
> delay_ms(j*50);
> output_high(pin_A4);   // steering ring 2
> delay_ms(j*50);
> output_low (pin_A5);
> delay_ms(j*50);
> output_low (pin_A4);
> // period of sequence
> delay_ms(j*100);  // set period
>  }  //end for i loop
> delay_ms(2000);   // wait 2 seconds after each 0 to 9 count
> }   //end for j loop
>    }   //end of endless while loop
> }// end of main function
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 4:00 PM Jon  wrote:
>
>> No hard figures - it's dependent on a bunch of factors; principally 
>> manufacturing quality, how you use the tube, operating temperature and gas 
>> fill. If you keep the operating current within spec and preferably at the 
>> lower end, avoid the tube getting heated from its surroundings and above 
>> all else keep the glow moving around all of the electrodes, they will last 
>> a seriously long time. The electrical properties will change gradually - 
>> the maintaining voltage rises and the latitude around the voltages required 
>> for reliable stepping decreases. So you were absolutely right to point out 
>> the importance of taking note of these elements of the spec when designing 
>> - you can get away with a lot on a NIB tube, but progressively less with 
>> age. Of course if the application requires clear glass to see the lovely 
>> glow, then the tube may reach end of its useful life in that application as 
>> sputtering gradually obscures the view, and that may happen well before it 
>> ceases to step reliably.
>>
>> I'm not surprised by gregebert's description of his A101 - his 
>> application sounds like a great recipe for a long dekatron life. The slow 
>> speed ones are tough as anything and they love to work! Just for context, I 
>> believe that the large majority of dekatrons working in the stores of the 
>> WITCH today are from the original complement of tubes the machine was built 
>> with at the start of the 1950s. Can't formally prove it of course, but the 
>> date codes are consistent with that. Also, as we've noted before on other 
>> Russian glow tubes, the guaranteed life spans on the datasheets are 
>> ridiculously conservative if the tubes are treated well. The A101 datasheet 
>> gives a 1000 hour life - his A101 has done 70x that! I have a similar 
>> experience with my IN9 clock - the prototype unit is still going strong on 
>> its original tubes after 120K hours - datasheet life is 1K hours.
>>
>> Note that we're talking here about use-related life limitation - the 
>> death in storage of the high-speed dekatrons is a whole different topic.
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:49:07 PM UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>>
>>> No, unfortunately not, no hard figures - maybe Jon has. I've only read 
>>> in some books about dekatron construction (neon tube construction in 
>>> general where dekatrons are shown as special variations) that they have 
>>> similar lifespans compared to small neon lamps but that th

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron for Demo Display

[Jon]

No hard figures - it's dependent on a bunch of factors; principally 
manufacturing quality, how you use the tube, operating temperature and gas 
fill. If you keep the operating current within spec and preferably at the 
lower end, avoid the tube getting heated from its surroundings and above 
all else keep the glow moving around all of the electrodes, they will last 
a seriously long time. The electrical properties will change gradually - 
the maintaining voltage rises and the latitude around the voltages required 
for reliable stepping decreases. So you were absolutely right to point out 
the importance of taking note of these elements of the spec when designing 
- you can get away with a lot on a NIB tube, but progressively less with 
age. Of course if the application requires clear glass to see the lovely 
glow, then the tube may reach end of its useful life in that application as 
sputtering gradually obscures the view, and that may happen well before it 
ceases to step reliably.

I'm not surprised by gregebert's description of his A101 - his application 
sounds like a great recipe for a long dekatron life. The slow speed ones 
are tough as anything and they love to work! Just for context, I believe 
that the large majority of dekatrons working in the stores of the WITCH 
today are from the original complement of tubes the machine was built with 
at the start of the 1950s. Can't formally prove it of course, but the date 
codes are consistent with that. Also, as we've noted before on other 
Russian glow tubes, the guaranteed life spans on the datasheets are 
ridiculously conservative if the tubes are treated well. The A101 datasheet 
gives a 1000 hour life - his A101 has done 70x that! I have a similar 
experience with my IN9 clock - the prototype unit is still going strong on 
its original tubes after 120K hours - datasheet life is 1K hours.

Note that we're talking here about use-related life limitation - the death 
in storage of the high-speed dekatrons is a whole different topic.

Jon.

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 8:49:07 PM UTC Dekatron42 wrote:

> No, unfortunately not, no hard figures - maybe Jon has. I've only read in 
> some books about dekatron construction (neon tube construction in general 
> where dekatrons are shown as special variations) that they have similar 
> lifespans compared to small neon lamps but that the complex design 
> complicates the failure modes/rate and also that keeping currents/voltages 
> within the values specified in the datasheet will guarantee that they work 
> as long as possible.
>
> It depends on when you say a dekatron fails, it can get a silvery finish 
> on the glass so you almost can't see the glow but it still works and it can 
> fail a lot earlier than that due to internal flash-overs due to sputtering 
> onto the ceramic material which means a current can flow in this sputtered 
> material as the distance is shorter there compared to other paths (I have a 
> few dekatrons with that failure and of course a few with a silvery look).
>
> I have to count my dekatrons one day to see if I have enough to build a 
> second Harwell WITCH. ;) :)
>
> /Martin
>
> On Tuesday, 16 February 2021 at 17:16:07 UTC+1 gregebert wrote:
>
>> *Martin* - Do you know how long dekatrons last ? I have an A-101 running 
>> as a spinner in one of my clocks, and it's been going 60RPM  24/7 for 
>> almost 8 years with no signs of degradation. I use 30k dropping resistors 
>> at the cathodes, and the current is right at the spec value of 450uA, so 
>> that gives about 15V for "steering", and the driving waveform is 3-phase 
>> with overlap. I
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 4:15:05 AM UTC-8 Dekatron42 wrote:
>>
>>> There is one more dimension to think about when running a dekatron and 
>>> that is that over time it will degrade due to sputtering affecting the 
>>> electrodes and to maintain a correct counting when it ages you should keep 
>>> the voltages as described in the datasheet, especially the guide and bias 
>>> voltages as those are needed when the dekatron nears its end of life - it 
>>> is the same effect that is in play if you want to raise a dekatron from the 
>>> dead if it has been heavily used or just stored for a very long time 
>>> without use, raise the bias/pulse voltages and sometimes the anode voltage 
>>> to surpass the effects of the sputtering - effectively increasing the 
>>> current flow between the anode and the guides/cathodes.
>>>
>>> So even if dekatrons work at other voltages you will see the effects of 
>>> lower/incorrect voltages when they near their end of life, this has been 
>>> described in older litterature where the internals of dekatrons has been 
>>> dis

Re: [neonixie-l] USB connector shield

[Jon]

You piqued my interest as to how the FT230X managed this point... From a 
quick read of the datasheet, it looks like that by default the chip tells 
the USB bus that it's in a bus-powered device that only needs 90mA. The 
datasheet is short of detail, but the implication is that you can change 
this value by writing to the internal EEPROM (see section 8). There's also 
discussion elsewhere in the datasheet about how to manage the requirements 
of being a bus powered device, including configuring one of the CBUSn pins 
to the PWREN# function so you can signal your MCU as to whether you got 
your power request or not.

Neat chip!

Jon.


On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 9:00:59 AM UTC newxito wrote:

> Nice clock!
> In my circuit, the USB data lines are not connected to the MCU. Actually, 
> I expect that the negotiation will be done by the FT230X (USB to basic UART 
> IC), maybe I’m wrong. 
> When plugged in, the device should only consume a few mA, I will delay 
> powering on the nixies. For the HV, I use a flyback design with a LT3757 
> that has a soft-start function, so I don’t expect spikes over 500mA. With 
> the nixies and neons powered on, the device should not consume more than 
> 400 mA. That’s the theory…
> I will follow your suggestion and use a hub for testing, thanks Jon.
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron for Demo Display

[Jon]

I'd had a similar thought about increasing the bias resistors - it's not 
necessary to run so much current (5mA) through that part of the circuit.

OK, so your proposed conditions are that the dekatron will see are 400V 
anode to main cathodes; guides swinging from +25V to -25V with respect to 
main cathodes. Tube current will be about 345uA.
I've replicated these on my dekatron tester using a nice NIB GS10C/S as the 
test subject and can confirm that they do work - the tube stepped fine up 
at speeds up to over 4kpps once I'd woken it up a bit.

Caveats:
1) I only tried one tube.
2) My circuit is rather different to yours so although the static voltages 
are the same, the pulse shapes are almost certainly different. And we 
didn't even talk yet about pulse durations, so I've no idea what your PIC 
is spitting out. But as long as you're not trying to cut things too fine, 
there's lots of latitude to find patterns that work. Keep things north of 
100us per phase and you'll be fine unless you've got a really reluctant 
tube.
3) I was running at slightly lower current (300uA) so you've probably got a 
bit more margin for speed than I had. Recommended operating conditions are 
325uA +/- 20%, so we're both inside that range. But a little more rather 
than less current is useful when pushing higher speeds. I'm guessing though 
that you're looking for a much slower stepping speed for this application 
though.

If you've not already done so, I'd definitely second Martin's 
recommendation to take a look at Michael Moorrees' dekatron work (he looks 
in here from time to time too). He used a couple of elegant design tricks 
which simplify the interfacing of dekatrons to modern electronics / 
microcontrollers - I've followed his approach in pretty much all the stuff 
I've built and it works a treat. Not to say that other approaches aren't 
equally useful too of course.

Jon.

On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 9:39:13 AM UTC Dekatron42 wrote:

> I'd raise the resistance to at least some 100k for the two bias resistors 
> R5 & R6 in your diagram above.
>
> I'd also use the correct bias voltage and just use an MPSA42 with its 
> emitter to common ground for the driver to simplify the circuit as Ronald 
> Dekker and Michael Moorrees with their dekatron circuits.
>
> Different dekatrons need different bias and pulse voltages on the guide 
> electrodes to count properly so accomodating for those requiremenst will 
> remove a lot of problems and keep down the fault finding time.
>
> /Martin
> On Monday, 15 February 2021 at 03:05:12 UTC+1 bung...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> You are absolutely right. 5v was not high enough despite Ronald's and my 
>> confirmation that it would work.
>> I am changing to +25v and -25v and will have an optocoupler with the 
>> diode driven from the 5v PIC and the transistor at the bottom of the 
>> resistor between the two power supplies. It keeps it simple. I have to 
>> order the optocoupler because none of my old ones have higher than 30 v 
>> rating.
>> I will have to think about the extra two power supplies. Maybe I can't 
>> avoid them. It will be a few days until I get the parts.
>> Peter
>> [image: Dekatron Circuit.jpg]
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 3:18 PM Jon  wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting approach - not seen it rigged up quite like that. Let us 
>>> know how it goes!
>>>
>>> My immediate question is whether there's a big enough potential 
>>> difference between an inactive guide and a main cathode to get a reliable 
>>> transfer forward from a deactivating G2 to the 'next' main cathode rather 
>>> than back to the adjacent recently used G1 - 5V is much lower than the 
>>> datasheet guide bias. Might be OK at slow stepping speeds with long guide 
>>> pulses. Also the leading edge of your guide pulses is going to be fairly 
>>> slow as Q1/2 come out of saturation and the guides are passively pulled 
>>> down to the 'active' voltage. Most guide drive circuits use a NPN pull-down 
>>> to the active state which creates a sharp leading edge and then a slower 
>>> return to the inactive state.
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 7:06:28 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Having finished the Amperex 8453 display I started on my Dekatron. 
>>>> Thanks to all for the suggestions.
>>>> I read up on Ronald Dekker's clock project 
>>>> https://www.dos4ever.com/decatron/decatronweb.html
>>>>  and decided against a direct drive from a 74141 because, even if it 
>>>> was practical, it would not look as good as using all the pins. It would 
>>>> look like the 8453 I just finished except without the number mask.
>&g

[neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron for Demo Display

[Jon]

Interesting approach - not seen it rigged up quite like that. Let us know 
how it goes!

My immediate question is whether there's a big enough potential difference 
between an inactive guide and a main cathode to get a reliable transfer 
forward from a deactivating G2 to the 'next' main cathode rather than back 
to the adjacent recently used G1 - 5V is much lower than the datasheet 
guide bias. Might be OK at slow stepping speeds with long guide pulses. 
Also the leading edge of your guide pulses is going to be fairly slow as 
Q1/2 come out of saturation and the guides are passively pulled down to the 
'active' voltage. Most guide drive circuits use a NPN pull-down to the 
active state which creates a sharp leading edge and then a slower return to 
the inactive state.

Jon.

On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 7:06:28 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:

> Having finished the Amperex 8453 display I started on my Dekatron. Thanks 
> to all for the suggestions.
> I read up on Ronald Dekker's clock project 
> https://www.dos4ever.com/decatron/decatronweb.html
>  and decided against a direct drive from a 74141 because, even if it was 
> practical, it would not look as good as using all the pins. It would look 
> like the 8453 I just finished except without the number mask.
> A few quick experiments showed that a -24v power supply was needed for the 
> easiest implementation.. This is my design. I will let you know if it works.
>
> A PIC drives the circuit: it starts with Q3 off to force a start at 1. A 
> high on R3 or R4 is the same as the switches in Ron's test circuit placing 
> -24v on the guides. As my PIC sends the BCD for the other displays and 
> clocks the E1T it will generate the sequence to advance or retard this 
> Dekatron..
> [image: Dekatron Circuit.jpg]
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] 8453/Z550M erratic

[Jon]

Actually, musing on it further, you might have a bit of a problem with the 
74141 and dekatrons. I suspect the chip output transistors won't have a 
high enough Vceo to cope if you try to use the typical dekatron anode 
voltages. Likely you're either going to need to play around to run the tube 
at lower anode voltages (not sure that'll work very well) or switch to a 
mixture of logic and discrete components - something along the lines of a 
7442 driving MPSA42 (you'll need an inverter between them).

The GR10A is the best option here I think - that should work fine with 
74141.

Jon.

On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 3:16:35 PM UTC Jon wrote:

> >Can a Dekatron be driven like a Nixie from a 74141 instead of using the 
> steering electrodes?
>
> I've not actually done the experiment in the way that you say, but the 
> answer should be 'yes'. You'll need a selector dekatron though where all 
> the main cathodes are brought out to their own individual pins. So GS10C / 
> 6476 / A101 for example rather than GC10B / 6802 / OG4.
>
> There is actually a dekatron-lookalike, the GR10A, which is designed to be 
> used like this - it's essentially a GS10C without the guide electrodes 
> (different base, but that's a detail).
>
> Jon.
>
> On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 2:38:21 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Alex; you are missing the point. Neither of the circuits shown in various 
>> data sheets work properly!
>> The circuit that does work and the one I'm using has the capacitor 
>> connected to the other side of the resistor.
>> A quick question so it does not get lost below: Can a Dekatron be driven 
>> like a Nixie from a 74141 instead of using the steering electrodes?
>>
>> [image: 8453_LR.jpg]
>> [image: 8453 Board_LR.jpg]
>> Each tube has its own small circuit board that connects to a PIC on my 
>> power supply by a 6 wire (+5v, Gnd, 4 BCD) harness. and by a separate two 
>> wire harness if High Voltage is needed (the 2 pin 0.2" spacing header on 
>> the perfboard above). My wires are fed through a hole and loop down to be 
>> soldered to provide strain relief. All boards mount on two spacers. Some 
>> mount directly on the back of the tube if space allows. Any board can be 
>> removed in less than a minute, usually 2 screws but 4 screws where the 
>> board is not attached to the tube, then pull one or two connectors. 
>> [image: Wiring_LR.jpg]
>> The E1T tube does not count in sync with the others because it is 
>> clocked, not fed by the common BCD bus. It takes time for the filaments to 
>> warm up so it needs a reset every decade to get it in sync. However it 
>> cannot count backwards without a lot of effort I'm not about to expend so 
>> it stays like this. The hole below is for LED displays.
>> [image: Display Demo_LR.jpg]
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 3:38 AM Alex  wrote:
>>
>>> Just a thought, maybe the diodes originally used had a much different 
>>> reverse leakage which, in half wave rectified setup, caused the polarity in 
>>> the tube to flip slightly - at low leakage current levels - and thus 
>>> extinguish it more cleanly between ripples. Modern(!) silicon (verses 
>>> germanium) may be too sharp for it? I think your full wave design is 
>>> probably best anyhow, the half wave was likely a cost compremise!
>>> - Alex
>>>
>>> On Friday, 12 February 2021 at 20:08:35 UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I tried Rk at 12k and 22k and it is still erratic.
>>>> Next I went back to full wave and connected it to my display chassis 
>>>> that runs from a PIC that counts at various speeds. I see the circuit only 
>>>> counts slowly but at 10/sec it fails. No flickering, it just does not 
>>>> count.
>>>> I changed the capacitor to the other side of Rk and it works perfectly.
>>>> I can't believe it is a typo carried through three documents but 
>>>> companies have been known to intentionally place errors to cause grief to 
>>>> anyone trying to steal their designs.
>>>> This circuit works.
>>>> [image: 8453 Circuit.jpg]
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 12:47:29 PM UTC-5 Dekatron42 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, I've never looked at that particular datasheet previously, 
>>>>> only the Philips ones even though I have a few Amperex stamped Z550M's.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this document: https://www.dos4ever.com/Z550M/Z550M2.pdf (a 
>>>>> somewhat clearer PDF can be downloaded here: 
>>>>> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie

Re: [neonixie-l] 8453/Z550M erratic

[Jon]

>Can a Dekatron be driven like a Nixie from a 74141 instead of using the 
steering electrodes?

I've not actually done the experiment in the way that you say, but the 
answer should be 'yes'. You'll need a selector dekatron though where all 
the main cathodes are brought out to their own individual pins. So GS10C / 
6476 / A101 for example rather than GC10B / 6802 / OG4.

There is actually a dekatron-lookalike, the GR10A, which is designed to be 
used like this - it's essentially a GS10C without the guide electrodes 
(different base, but that's a detail).

Jon.

On Saturday, February 13, 2021 at 2:38:21 PM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:

> Alex; you are missing the point. Neither of the circuits shown in various 
> data sheets work properly!
> The circuit that does work and the one I'm using has the capacitor 
> connected to the other side of the resistor.
> A quick question so it does not get lost below: Can a Dekatron be driven 
> like a Nixie from a 74141 instead of using the steering electrodes?
>
> [image: 8453_LR.jpg]
> [image: 8453 Board_LR.jpg]
> Each tube has its own small circuit board that connects to a PIC on my 
> power supply by a 6 wire (+5v, Gnd, 4 BCD) harness. and by a separate two 
> wire harness if High Voltage is needed (the 2 pin 0.2" spacing header on 
> the perfboard above). My wires are fed through a hole and loop down to be 
> soldered to provide strain relief. All boards mount on two spacers. Some 
> mount directly on the back of the tube if space allows. Any board can be 
> removed in less than a minute, usually 2 screws but 4 screws where the 
> board is not attached to the tube, then pull one or two connectors. 
> [image: Wiring_LR.jpg]
> The E1T tube does not count in sync with the others because it is clocked, 
> not fed by the common BCD bus. It takes time for the filaments to warm up 
> so it needs a reset every decade to get it in sync. However it cannot count 
> backwards without a lot of effort I'm not about to expend so it stays like 
> this. The hole below is for LED displays.
> [image: Display Demo_LR.jpg]
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 3:38 AM Alex  wrote:
>
>> Just a thought, maybe the diodes originally used had a much different 
>> reverse leakage which, in half wave rectified setup, caused the polarity in 
>> the tube to flip slightly - at low leakage current levels - and thus 
>> extinguish it more cleanly between ripples. Modern(!) silicon (verses 
>> germanium) may be too sharp for it? I think your full wave design is 
>> probably best anyhow, the half wave was likely a cost compremise!
>> - Alex
>>
>> On Friday, 12 February 2021 at 20:08:35 UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I tried Rk at 12k and 22k and it is still erratic.
>>> Next I went back to full wave and connected it to my display chassis 
>>> that runs from a PIC that counts at various speeds. I see the circuit only 
>>> counts slowly but at 10/sec it fails. No flickering, it just does not count.
>>> I changed the capacitor to the other side of Rk and it works perfectly.
>>> I can't believe it is a typo carried through three documents but 
>>> companies have been known to intentionally place errors to cause grief to 
>>> anyone trying to steal their designs.
>>> This circuit works.
>>> [image: 8453 Circuit.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 12:47:29 PM UTC-5 Dekatron42 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, I've never looked at that particular datasheet previously, only 
>>>> the Philips ones even though I have a few Amperex stamped Z550M's.
>>>>
>>>> In this document: https://www.dos4ever.com/Z550M/Z550M2.pdf (a 
>>>> somewhat clearer PDF can be downloaded here: 
>>>> http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/Z550M_2.pdf) there is 
>>>> a paragraph on "Supply voltage" on page 120 where they mention a minimum 
>>>> repetition frequency of 80 pulses per second as a minmum for proper 
>>>> operation - perhaps that is the reason why it doesn't work as well on just 
>>>> half wave rectification. Maybe Amperex had some specially made to be able 
>>>> to drive them at 117 VAC @ 60Hz?
>>>>
>>>> /Martin
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, 12 February 2021 at 17:56:07 UTC+1 bung...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martin; See attached for data sheet. I have tried different 
>>>>> capacitors. They make no difference for either full wave or half wave - 
>>>>> full wave always works with no indication of problems and half wave 
>>>>> flickers all over the place and never works (unless I move th

[neonixie-l] Re: Vintage LED display, VQB76. What's the relationship between RFT and WF?

[Jon]

We're talking about the old East Germany here, the DDR. As I understand it 
RFT was a large state-owned enterprise which had a number of operating 
subsidiaries amongst which production responsibility was divided. WF was 
one of these, based in Berlin at the Oberspreewerk, at least during the 
1960s when it made nixies and dekatrons amongst other things. If you search 
German Wikipedia there's quite some background covering origins and 
evolution of the factory - Google Translate will help you out with the 
language if needed (which needless to say it was for me!).

Jon.


On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 6:26:33 PM UTC alex nolan wrote:

> No expert by any means, but according to 
> https://frank.pocnet.net/brand.html WF is listed as "RFT Werk für 
> Fernsehelektronik". It seems to be a subsidiary or branch of RFT of some 
> kind.
>
> On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 2:55:35 AM UTC-5 ZY wrote:
>
>> Apologies for not being a nixie tube here, but it's a vintage display so 
>> hopefully it fits the theme.
>>
>> I have some old VQB76 LED modules with the logo WF. I see for tubes WF is 
>> associated with RFT. Is WF a brand name, or a separate company? And what 
>> does it stand for?
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] New soldering station recommendations...

[Jon Jackson]

Is it the CO-Z 858D Rework Station ??

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:35 AM gregebert  wrote:

> Reviving this thread...
>
> I've spent some of the holiday season using hot-air soldering for
> surface-mount devices, and the results are far superior to hand-soldering.
> With good solder paste (I'm using ChipQuick 63/37; there are several other
> brands) and placing small dabs on solder pads with the included syringe.
> You dont need to use a stencil; you probably will want one if you are doing
> several builds of the same board AND you are going to mount all components
> at the same time.
>
> If the PCB has good solder-masking, the solder paste will flow from the
> masked area towards the pad when heated, so shorts are unlikely to occur
> unless you used way too much paste. I've also seen some self-centering of
> SMT parts while the solder is molten, so you dont need to hold the part
> in-place while soldering as long as the airflow velocity from your hot-air
> machine is low enough.
>
> BTW, I'm using a cheap (40 USD on Amazon) reflow device that holds
> temperature quite well; adjustable airflow is a MUST-have feature.
>
> If you are fearful of doing SMT work because it looks too small, I suggest
> you give it a try. Find a PCB from a discarded device and test it out
> yourself.
>
> Thru-hole parts should still be soldered with a traditional hand iron.
>
> On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 1:03:48 PM UTC-7 Bill Notfaded wrote:
>
>> Metcal 100% I'll never go back again. We use them at work to solder for
>> space applications under scopes... Well I don't but they do in the
>> factories. Since they turned me on and I bought a 5k series I'm totally
>> sold. It's the bomb period!
>>
>> Bill
>>
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> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Source for honeycomb mesh?

[Jon Jackson]

Oh, a reference to "Black Mirror" bees...that was their best episode ever !!

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 9:07 AM RikD  wrote:

> Don't help him out, i know for a fact he's trying to raise an army of
> metal bees!
>
> (just kidding)
>
> These guys are in the EU, not sure that's any help?
> https://www.honeycombpanels.eu/en/products/honeycomb/aluminium
>
> Op zaterdag 12 december 2020 om 16:39:34 UTC+1 schreef
> w...@kitsunegari.net:
>
>> Does anyone know of a source where I can get aluminum honeycomb mesh?
>> There are loads of vendors on Ali selling aluminum mesh but so far I
>> haven't been able to find one with a honeycomb pattern.
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
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> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Selling Remaining Nixie Projects (for ZM1350s/B5971s) w/ Database Support

[Jon Jackson]

Mahdi,

I am interested in getting one of your ZM1350 8-digit clocks.  I have ten
or so ZM1350s.  I especially like the idea of hosting a message on your web
site (I do not have one...yet) that I can modify by submitting text to.

Jon J.


On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 2:23 PM Mahdi Al Husseini 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am finally selling the remaining nixie projects I have in my supply, one
> requiring eight ZM1350s, and the other requiring six B5971s. Though the
> tubes are not included, the boards are otherwise fully assembled and ready
> for use. Both projects use ESP32s, and connect to their own individual
> MySQL databases, which allows for submission of text online, that will be
> displayed on the boards. I will host a page on my website specifically for
> your board that will allow you to submit text to it whenever (or show you
> how to port it to your own website if you have one, if you wish).
>
> A couple of photos are attached, and some closer shots are in the
> following:
>
> ZM1350:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1WfA0T3ByWeIAqyd5mXbXEQ0MmotdEPHz?usp=sharing
> B7971:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19ccZJUh2WGjpTfVjeRM6hM5GserZCSUX?usp=sharing
>
>
> I have four ZM1350 boards remaining at $350 each + shipping, and four
> B5971 boards remaining at $300 each + shipping. These costs as listed are
> only slightly above the production cost to produce them (they were
> expensive to build!). The ZM1350 boards are encased in black acrylic and
> etched black metal. Even if you don't have eight ZM1350s (or eight that
> work well and don't leak, sheesh, tell me about it) or six B5971s, you can
> use as many as you have and the code can be adjusted easily. I really
> enjoyed making these, and hope you will like them! Happy to answer any
> questions.
>
> Mahdi
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Elfin Rodan MG-17G

[Jon]

They're sweet little tubes, well worth having if you don't pay a fortune 
for them. This page is an interesting tangent on the subject:
http://www.imajeenyus.com/vacuum/20101115_second_panaplex/index.shtml

Jon.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:09:52 PM UTC w...@kitsunegari.net wrote:

> Oh dear that sounds scary.
> I really hope they’ve been handled with care and, if they were, this last 
> trip with the postal services doesn’t break them.
> I’m not even sure if I’m going to use them though. I’d never even thought 
> about them actually being 7 segment Nixie tubes so something inbetween 
> Nixie and Numitron. Perhaps use them to trade for other tubes I like. 
> No idea what the value of these things is nowadays.
>
>  
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
> Of *Paolo Cravero
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:24 PM
> *To:* neoni...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Elfin Rodan MG-17G
>
>  
>
> Hello Yohan (or Park?).
>
>  
>
> Just came across 7 new MG-17G tubes which I never knew existed. Has anyone 
> ever done a clock with these tubes?
>
>  
>
> I "found" them inside a Inno-hit K80W battery operated portable 
> calculator, of which there are few similar models from the same year(s).
>
> In two tubes the top ring has gone loose and moves freely inside the glass 
> shorting segments together. Well, with some clever movements it can be 
> parked in the back of the tube still preserving functionality: it lasts as 
> long as nobody puts upside down the calculator.
>
>  
>
> Be gentle with your MG17-G's.
>
> Paolo
>
>  
>
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[neonixie-l] Re: Reply to sender

[Jon]

I believe it's worked... Thanks Grahame!

Jon.

On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 8:00:12 PM UTC Sgitheach wrote:

>
> Hi
> We "may" have turned on the "reply to sender" option within the group. 
> Please let me know if it works or doesn't for you.
> Ta Grahame
> Mod
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Some interesting measurements of a few R|Z568m

[Jon]

Thanks Kevin, this is really interesting stuff!

Jon.

On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 9:03:43 PM UTC Kevin A. wrote:

> By the way, if you find the SMU instrument interesting, I wrote a detailed 
> article about what it is, and how it is used: 
> https://neonkev.com/2020/09/21/precision-swiss-army-knife-the-smu-source-measure-unit/
>
> On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 4:01:23 PM UTC-5 Kevin A. wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 4:01:01 PM UTC-5 Kevin A. wrote:
>>
>>> Some pics of the test setup
>>>
>>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] SP-101 Clock, finshed at last!

[Jon D.]

Richard,

I would be interested in a few SP-353 boards and your design.  I have 8 or 
so SP-353s.

Jon D.


On Wednesday, November 11, 2020 at 3:17:32 AM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:

> Would anyone with SP-353's or even SP-352's be interested in a direct 
> drive version of this clock using HV6522 drivers and driven from a Wemos 
> micro?
>
> I'm hatching a cunning plan
>
>
>
>
>
> This is a display board for SP-353's, behind this would be a board with 
> HV5622's then behind that the controller and power supplies etc.
>
> should I carry on or give up now?
>
> - Richard
>
>
> On Wednesday, 11 November 2020 03:18:32 UTC, Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>> I'd be interested in that - please keep me posted.
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 10 November 2020 16:34:52 UTC, Bill Stanley wrote:
>>>
>>> It might be a bit premature but I am working on a MK5017 emulator. It is 
>>> a 2 board stack the size of the Mostek chip that (hopefully) plugs into the 
>>> socket to replace the original chip.
>>> The top board holds an 8051 chip (SiLabs C8051F381-GQR) and a DS3231S 
>>> clock chip. The lower board has the 15V to 3.3V power supply and the 
>>> 3.3-15V translators to look like PMOS logic. I also have a development 
>>> board with power supplies, drivers, switches and 7 segment LEDs to simulate 
>>> the main clock for code development. There is also a connection to allow 
>>> GPS + PPS synchronization.
>>>
>>> The PCBs are in and as soon as I can work with a microscope, I will 
>>> assemble and work on the construction.
>>>
>>> I will make everything available including OrCad schematics, Allegro 
>>> layouts, bare PCB, code etc for anyone interested.
>>>
>>>   -Bill-
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:20:19 AM UTC-8 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank you, that signal is present in all its glory. I got a circuit 
>>>> diagram and could see that it was rectifying AC from the transformer so 
>>>> that was the first place I looked. The signal was good. Given that the 
>>>> clock chip is multiplexing the displays nicely I'd be surprised if it had 
>>>> failed.
>>>> I've also checked that all the various switch contacts are good and 
>>>> they do seem to be. 
>>>> I don't think that replacement clock ICs are going to be that easy to 
>>>> locate!
>>>> Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 16:08 Bill Stanley,  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A possible cause of the failure to count is the 60Hz signal the clock 
>>>>> uses for a time base. Look at pin 23 of the MK5017 with a scope for a 
>>>>> half 
>>>>> wave 60 (or 50) Hz signal.
>>>>>
>>>>>   -Bill-
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 7:10:26 AM UTC-8 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you. I have a Heathkit clock that needs some assistance. It 
>>>>>> does everything it should do apart from increment the time. The clock 
>>>>>> chip 
>>>>>> is driving the displays so I'm thinking it's OK but it just won't count 
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> I wasn't thinking of offering a kit but if anyone has a set of 
>>>>>> SP-101's then I can help out with Pcb's for this version as well as 
>>>>>> another 
>>>>>> one that I hope to have ready soon. 
>>>>>> Richard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 14:11 martin martin,  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your clock looks great!  I'm currently fixing this 1970s Heathkit 
>>>>>>> with an overheating power transformer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yes!  I would be interested in a kit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~
>>>>>>> *mcve...@gmail.com*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 6:04 AM Richard Scales  
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I could make plans available, or all hinges on having the displays.
>>>>>>>> The rest of just smart sockets albeit ones I made work for these 7 
>>>>>>>> segment displays. 
>>>>>>&

[neonixie-l] Re: Troubleshooting 3-guide dekatron

[Jon]

Great, let us know how it goes. Always happy to hear of someone else having 
fun with dekatrons!

BTW, to your question about OG9 in the other thread - yes, OG9 are 
essentially the same as OG4, just with more main cathodes brought out 
individually to pins on the octal base (K0, K1, K5 and K9 instead of just 
K0). It's what ETL call a 'computing tube' - partway between a counter and 
a selector. ETL's analogous tubes are GC10/4B and GC10B.

Jon.

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 11:28:40 AM UTC andrewodo...@gmail.com wrote:

> @Jon
>
> Really helpful thanks. This is new old stock OG-3 so certainly been sat 
> quietly for a few decades. The max current (measured) on that circuit is 
> 740uA or so which is just about right for the OG-3. (I have selectable 
> 485/750uA circuit for neon/argon dekas)
>
> Messing about with it and experimenting further - if I run a simple 
> spinner at about 50mS per step it sticks (or rather fails to step and jumps 
> back to k0). Running the same spinner faster at 20mS per step and it runs 
> almost 100% of the time so there may be something to your ideas that it is 
> struggling to heat up or needs more time to really glow. The sticky guide 
> is about halfway around from k0 so not too worried about that.
>
> I'll let it run for a day or three and slowly crank the speed down to try 
> and keep easing it into service. Certainly just an hour or two of running 
> (sticky jumping pins all over the place) and it's gone from being almost 
> unusable to 99% fine. If this doesn't work i'll rig something up to pause 
> the glow on the affected pin if I can and see if that burns it off.
>
> This is all really helpful thanks - I have some other Argon (normal double 
> pulse) Dekatrons which have been all over the place and this one is 
> reassuring me it's probably the Dekatron and not my circuits. I'll give 
> them another go once this one is hopefully cleaned up,
>
> Cheers
>
> On Sunday, 8 November 2020 at 22:54:24 UTC Jon wrote:
>
>> Difficult to say for sure without seeing the circuit, but if it spins 
>> fine one way but not the other, most likely you've just got a bit of a 
>> sticky tube. Particularly if the performance is improving with use - it's a 
>> very common observation when waking up dekatrons after a few decades 
>> asleep, though some models are more prone to it than others. I generally 
>> find that a few hours use clears up most of these issues and it doesn't 
>> seem to matter too much how fast you spin it while doing that. I'm drawn to 
>> the idea that a slower step should be better - give a little bit more time 
>> for the glow to really heat up the cathode and burn any crud off it. But 
>> I've no objective evidence to support that view - difficult to do 
>> controlled experiments. If you get a really recalcitrant cathode, then 
>> sometimes letting the glow rest there for a couple of minutes while running 
>> the tube at a current a little above the maximum rated value can be useful. 
>> What current are you operating the tube at?
>>
>> Having said that, can you tell which cathode seems to be sticky? If it's 
>> K0 or the guide pins immediately either side of that, then you might have a 
>> tube which has been heavily used in an application where it's been stuck on 
>> one cathode (usually K0) for many hours. That can cause erosion of K0 by 
>> sputtering and deposition of material on the faces of the neighbouring 
>> guide cathodes - in both cases the surface properties of the cathodes are 
>> changed which can cause stickiness. And in bad cases that can be incurable. 
>> It's more of a issue on the neon-filled tubes though than the 
>> helium/hydrogen ones like your OG3 (there is no argon in there BTW, that's 
>> an oft-repeated error).
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 10:02:46 PM UTC andrewodo...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the tips
>>>
>>> I have an A101 and an OG4 running great on the same circuit - just 
>>> having issues getting the 3-guide OG3 running (i'm aware the OG3 needs more 
>>> amperage and a different drive circuit and it's got that). Anode to main 
>>> cathode voltage is about 225 and Anode to Guides is about 180 so yeah about 
>>> 45 volts drop for the guides compared to the main cathode. 
>>>
>>> What makes you suggest a slightly higher voltage drop at the cathode 
>>> resistors - something about the appearance?
>>>
>>> As for drive, i've taken a fairly simple 4-step approach (I can reverse 
>>> the direction and it doesn't stick so i'm happy the drive is working unless 
>>> i'm missing anything?)
>>>

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Who is interested in IN33?

[Jon]

Nick (with your mod hat on)

Can the mods enable PMs on the 'new' Google groups format? I think that 
would help - right now people may not be able to easily comply unless 
they've tuned into one of the work-arounds for the absence of PMs  that 
have been identified in other threads (switch back to the 'old' format or 
pick up your desired recipient's direct email address from the daily 
cumulative email digest).

Jon.

On Monday, November 9, 2020 at 5:36:17 PM UTC Pramanicin wrote:

> Guys, please take the private deal making off of the list.
>
> Thanks
>
> -Moderators.
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 9:15 AM Yuriy Ovchinnikov <1219y...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> IN-33 - 2x$18 = $36
>> IVL-2-7/5 - 2x$1.5 = $3
>> IVL-1-7/5 - 1x$10 = $10
>> IVLSHU-1-11/2 - 2x$5 = $10
>> OG-9 with metal base for $7 (I have 1 pc.)
>> OG-9 цшер bakelite base for $5.
>> Shipping cost is $30.
>>
>> пн, 9 нояб. 2020 г. в 19:48, Andrew ODonnell :
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> No problem I will still take the other items
>>>
>>> What is total cost so far, ship to UK, what was your price for the OG-9 
>>> and are they metal or bakelite bases?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On Monday, 9 November 2020 at 16:32:37 UTC Юрий Овчинников wrote:
>>>
>>>> I prepeared the parcel but I can not find A-108.
>>>>
>>>> пн, 9 нояб. 2020 г. в 00:02, Andrew ODonnell :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm interested in following;
>>>>>
>>>>> 2x IN-33
>>>>> 1x A-108
>>>>> 2x IVL-2-7/5
>>>>> 1x IVL-1-7/5
>>>>> 2x IVLShU-1-11/2
>>>>>
>>>>> please. Ship to UK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also the OG-9, price and is it metal base or plastic/bakelite? Am I 
>>>>> right in thinking the OG-9 is almost identical to the OG-4 (double pulse 
>>>>> 30 
>>>>> pins etc)?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, 26 October 2020 at 20:01:58 UTC Юрий Овчинников wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Now I have:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CRT VFD Indicator Tube ILD3-L (green) – 50 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  and ILD3-K (red) – 50 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A-108 – 6 pcs. for $20
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A-201 – 13 pcs. for $40
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IV-1 – 39 pcs. for $0.6,
>>>>>> IV-28А – 1 pcs. for $3,
>>>>>> IVL-1-7/5 – 2 pcs. for $10,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IVL-2-7/5 – 24 pcs. for $1.5,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IVLShU-1-11/2 – 39 pcs. for $5,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-3 – 199 pcs. for $0.5,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-4 – 2 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-7 – 4 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-13 – 3 pcs. for $3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-15А – 101 pcs. for $1,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-16 – 1000 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-17 – 120 pcs.
>>>>>> IN-19A used – 1 pc. for $1.5,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-19B used – 1 pc. for $1.5,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-19V – 2 pcs. for $2,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IN-28 – 79 pcs. for $3
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LC-531 used – 1 pc. for $2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OG-9 – 5 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5870 ITT England used – 8 pcs. for $10
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Z570M – 4 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Z5700M used – 29 pcs.
>>>>>> Z573M – 11 pcs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> чт, 22 окт. 2020 г. в 03:56, Yohan Park :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 8:13:39 PM UTC+2 Юрий Овчинников 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe you need some other lamps?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you send me a list of what you have in stock please?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>>>>>> To u

[neonixie-l] Re: Troubleshooting 3-guide dekatron

[Jon]

Difficult to say for sure without seeing the circuit, but if it spins fine 
one way but not the other, most likely you've just got a bit of a sticky 
tube. Particularly if the performance is improving with use - it's a very 
common observation when waking up dekatrons after a few decades asleep, 
though some models are more prone to it than others. I generally find that 
a few hours use clears up most of these issues and it doesn't seem to 
matter too much how fast you spin it while doing that. I'm drawn to the 
idea that a slower step should be better - give a little bit more time for 
the glow to really heat up the cathode and burn any crud off it. But I've 
no objective evidence to support that view - difficult to do controlled 
experiments. If you get a really recalcitrant cathode, then sometimes 
letting the glow rest there for a couple of minutes while running the tube 
at a current a little above the maximum rated value can be useful. What 
current are you operating the tube at?

Having said that, can you tell which cathode seems to be sticky? If it's K0 
or the guide pins immediately either side of that, then you might have a 
tube which has been heavily used in an application where it's been stuck on 
one cathode (usually K0) for many hours. That can cause erosion of K0 by 
sputtering and deposition of material on the faces of the neighbouring 
guide cathodes - in both cases the surface properties of the cathodes are 
changed which can cause stickiness. And in bad cases that can be incurable. 
It's more of a issue on the neon-filled tubes though than the 
helium/hydrogen ones like your OG3 (there is no argon in there BTW, that's 
an oft-repeated error).

Jon.


On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 10:02:46 PM UTC andrewodo...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for the tips
>
> I have an A101 and an OG4 running great on the same circuit - just having 
> issues getting the 3-guide OG3 running (i'm aware the OG3 needs more 
> amperage and a different drive circuit and it's got that). Anode to main 
> cathode voltage is about 225 and Anode to Guides is about 180 so yeah about 
> 45 volts drop for the guides compared to the main cathode. 
>
> What makes you suggest a slightly higher voltage drop at the cathode 
> resistors - something about the appearance?
>
> As for drive, i've taken a fairly simple 4-step approach (I can reverse 
> the direction and it doesn't stick so i'm happy the drive is working unless 
> i'm missing anything?)
>
> It's been running for about 2 hours now and it's improving constantly - 
> much less sticking each time, so I suspect it's mostly the Dekatron itself 
> being sticky. I'll leave it overnight and see if this helps. it's probably 
> also worth noting it only sticks clockwise - if I run it anticlockwise it 
> spins fine.
>
> On Sunday, 8 November 2020 at 21:30:44 UTC gregebert wrote:
>
>> First thing to check is your timing. I use a symmetric 6-phase approach 
>> where you have overlap on the 3 groups of cathodes.
>> Secondly, you might need a bit more voltage-drop at the cathode resistors 
>> (ie, make them slightly higher value).
>>
>> I had this problem with my homebrew A101 spinner, and once I had about 30 
>> volts across the cathode resistors it continues to run flawlessly after 
>> nearly 8 years of continuous operation.
>> On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 12:16:54 PM UTC-8 andrewodo...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I'm playing around and familiarising myself with Dekatrons. Have an 
>>> arduino-interface PCB so running them off Arduino. OG-4 and A101 running 
>>> nicely but i'm struggling with the Argon 3-guide tubes.
>>>
>>> Here's a video of what it's doing - it looks like it's driving correctly 
>>> but it's failing usually at the same pin everytime. But sometimes it's 
>>> circling nicely.
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/tznRK8o7DN14wGbX7 
>>>
>>> Is this a hardware fault ('sticky' pin on the dekatron) or is this a 
>>> fault in my software to drive it?
>>>
>>> I know some Dekatrons can be a bit tricky and sticky, if this is just a 
>>> sticky pin, what's the best way to try and resolve it? If the answer is 
>>> 'run it for hours' - is it best to run it super fast or slow?
>>>
>>> Many Thanks
>>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 6300HV Kickstarter launching in 11 days

[Jon Jackson]

It is redirecting for me.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 12:28 PM Max DN  wrote:

> Aidan, the kickstarter link is not working any longer, at least for me. It
> seemed fine a few hours ago.
>
> Do you have any tests on efficiency at 3.7V li-on battery input and 170V
> 1mA / 2mA and 4mA?
>
> Would you have any suggestions on how this is even possible: 7 years ago,
> 85% efficiency with a CR1216 battery (which I believe can provide max 25mA).
> Il giorno venerdì 6 novembre 2020 alle 18:49:31 UTC ai...@omnixie.com ha
> scritto:
>
>> Thank you John for the shout out ;)
>> Here is the KS link:
>> https://nixie.ai/ks6300gg
>>
>> Also, help us spread the words and you can get 10% commission
>> https://nch6300hv.kickbooster.me/boost
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 10:42:25 AM UTC-8 John Snow wrote:
>>
>>> It's gone live, there's still super early-bird 40% off pledges avalible
>>> for those interested.
>>>
>>> -John
>>> On Friday, 6 November 2020 at 08:45:16 UTC ai...@omnixie.com wrote:
>>>
 Not yet. Still under review by KS. Should go live soon.

 I’ll update the post then.


 Warm regards,
 Aiden



 On Nov 3, 2020, at 11:54 PM, Richard Scales 
 wrote:

 

 Hello,

 Is it launched? No email received after registering and cannot find on
 Kickstarter?

 On Friday, 23 October 2020 22:57:23 UTC+1, Aiden Fang wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> As promised, here is the heads up about Yan's brand new NCH6300HV
> Nixie tube power booster.
>
> The Kickstarter campaign is launching in 11 days. So please sign up at
> the pre-sale page to stay in the loop:
> https://nch6300hv.omnixie.com
>
> Thank you!
> [image: 6300.png]
> [image: 6300power16.jpg]
>
>
>
> --
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[neonixie-l] Re: NL-5971 (B-5971) Tube "Buy it now"

[Jon D.]

Whoops, forgot the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/264926879110?ul_noapp=true

Getting a little pricey !!


On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 5:23:25 AM UTC-7 Jon D. wrote:

> Found an auction for 6 of these NOS/NIB on fleabay for $369.99
>
>

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[neonixie-l] NL-5971 (B-5971) Tube "Buy it now"

[Jon D.]

Found an auction for 6 of these NOS/NIB on fleabay for $369.99

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[Jon]

Yes, that was the only vague speculation I could come up with too - 
displaying a 3 bit 'byte' in early binary calculators or similar. But I've 
not found any documentation that points in that (or indeed any) direction. 
The obscurity of the application probably accounts for why they're as rare 
as hen's teeth now.

Jon.

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 1:47:23 AM UTC gregebert wrote:

> I'm going to guess it was an attempt to use octal-based math (which is a 
> subset of binary) in early computers, instead of decimal, because of the 
> greater efficiency in calculations. From what I've gathered, dekatrons were 
> an electronic mimic to the base-10 mechanical adding machines. But computer 
> science theory and electronics soon converged on binary, which we still use.
>
> Remember the PDP-8 ? It was 12 bits, or 4 octal words.
>
> On Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 4:01:06 PM UTC-7 Jon wrote:
>
>> Misery? How can such a lovely tube be the cause of misery? :)
>>
>> So, the mystery tube is a Rodan DK25. Grahame correctly deduced from the 
>> picture that it is a three-guide (single pulse) base-8 selector dekatron. 
>> It's hooked up in a standard single pulse circuit which automatically 
>> creates fast transfers from G1 to G2 and from G3 to the 'next' main 
>> cathode, so what we're looking at is the persistence of vision effect of 
>> the glow resting predominantly on the G2 guides and main cathodes. 8 main 
>> cathodes, 8 sets of guides G1, G2, G3 for a total of 32 pins, of which half 
>> are visibly glowing in this regime.
>>
>> The DK25 is the only base-8 counting tube as far as I know, which is why 
>> the picture is truly diagnostic of the precise model of tube. Why Rodan 
>> made it, I have no idea, but it was a regular catalogue item not some 
>> weirdo developmental. There is a conventional base-10 selector tube in the 
>> same form factor, the DK24, which is much more commonly found, and even 
>> more oddly a base-6 tube too. That last one's a bit easier to understand 
>> from an application perspective, as base-6 and base-12 tubes (like the ETL 
>> GC12/4B & GS12D) are useful for counting time.
>>
>> So a real oddball, which I'm very pleased to have in the collection!
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>> On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 6:13:14 PM UTC+1 Pramanicin wrote:
>>
>>> Come on Jon, put us out of our misery. :)
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7 Jon wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sharp eyes Grahame, and some sharp deductions too...
>>>>
>>>> The tube is indeed spinning, quite quickly. So we are looking at a 
>>>> persistence of vision effect, but not one created by a highly specific 
>>>> camera shutter speed - this is what the tube looks like to the naked eye. 
>>>> And neither is the tube being abused with a funky hook-up, it's operating 
>>>> in the manufacturer's reference circuit (might be give or take on the odd 
>>>> component value, I don't remember). It is a commercial tube, not a 
>>>> prototype / developmental tube. Your comment on mica vs ceramic is spot on 
>>>> - the family of tubes of which this is a member do switch from mica 
>>>> supports to ceramics. I have not actually seen an example of this 
>>>> particular type with a ceramic support, but I have no reason to believe 
>>>> they were not made.
>>>>
>>>> So, very nice progress. Anyone able to get us all the way over the line?
>>>>
>>>> Jon.
>>>>
>>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Amperex 8453 Counter tube

[Jon]

8453 is the US EIA/JEDEC registration for the Philips Z550M, also found in 
Europe marked as ZM1050. If you search Z550M you'll have more luck. But 
really all you need is Ronald Dekker's comprehensive piece of historical 
research at https://www.dos4ever.com/Z550M/Z550M.html

Jon.

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 12:23:14 AM UTC bung...@gmail.com wrote:

> I searched on this tube and found nothing.
> Before I spend time designing a circuit to drive it, has any one already 
> done so?
> I don't mean the circuit in the data sheet, I mean a solid state driver 
> for the ten starter pins.
> Ehat does I.C. mean on pin 6? Or is it N/C as in Not Connected? 
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[Jon]

Misery? How can such a lovely tube be the cause of misery? :)

So, the mystery tube is a Rodan DK25. Grahame correctly deduced from the 
picture that it is a three-guide (single pulse) base-8 selector dekatron. 
It's hooked up in a standard single pulse circuit which automatically 
creates fast transfers from G1 to G2 and from G3 to the 'next' main 
cathode, so what we're looking at is the persistence of vision effect of 
the glow resting predominantly on the G2 guides and main cathodes. 8 main 
cathodes, 8 sets of guides G1, G2, G3 for a total of 32 pins, of which half 
are visibly glowing in this regime.

The DK25 is the only base-8 counting tube as far as I know, which is why 
the picture is truly diagnostic of the precise model of tube. Why Rodan 
made it, I have no idea, but it was a regular catalogue item not some 
weirdo developmental. There is a conventional base-10 selector tube in the 
same form factor, the DK24, which is much more commonly found, and even 
more oddly a base-6 tube too. That last one's a bit easier to understand 
from an application perspective, as base-6 and base-12 tubes (like the ETL 
GC12/4B & GS12D) are useful for counting time.

So a real oddball, which I'm very pleased to have in the collection!

Jon.

On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 6:13:14 PM UTC+1 Pramanicin wrote:

> Come on Jon, put us out of our misery. :)
>
> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7 Jon wrote:
>
>>
>> Sharp eyes Grahame, and some sharp deductions too...
>>
>> The tube is indeed spinning, quite quickly. So we are looking at a 
>> persistence of vision effect, but not one created by a highly specific 
>> camera shutter speed - this is what the tube looks like to the naked eye. 
>> And neither is the tube being abused with a funky hook-up, it's operating 
>> in the manufacturer's reference circuit (might be give or take on the odd 
>> component value, I don't remember). It is a commercial tube, not a 
>> prototype / developmental tube. Your comment on mica vs ceramic is spot on 
>> - the family of tubes of which this is a member do switch from mica 
>> supports to ceramics. I have not actually seen an example of this 
>> particular type with a ceramic support, but I have no reason to believe 
>> they were not made.
>>
>> So, very nice progress. Anyone able to get us all the way over the line?
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Does anyone have a use for a VS10H Trochotron ?

[Jon]

Thanks very much Nick! You have email.

Jon.

On Thursday, October 22, 2020 at 2:39:46 PM UTC+1 Nick Sargeant wrote:

> Thanks for the replies. I seem to have my two customers - bear with me for 
> a few days since work seems to have suddenly hotted up. (typical, isn't 
> it?)  Jon, if you email me we can share address info? 
>
> On Tuesday, 20 October 2020 at 21:37:36 UTC+1 Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm interested in the second one. I live in Sweden and I am prepared to 
>> pay for shipping to me.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On Tuesday, 20 October 2020 at 18:36:41 UTC+2 Jon wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> I'd be interested in one, and happy to pay the postage (I'm in the UK 
>>> too - Hertfordshire).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 4:13:07 PM UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm sorry to say that I didn't even know what one of those was until I 
>>>> googled it :-(
>>>>
>>>> On a more positive note - hello near neighbour - I live just west of 
>>>> Chichester!
>>>>
>>>>  - Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, 20 October 2020 16:01:09 UTC+1, Nick Sargeant wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Having not really discovered a use for them - I think I have two in a 
>>>>> collection of vintage stuff that came to me from a death in the family of 
>>>>> a 
>>>>> friend of a nephew. Will ship to anyone interested in refunding the 
>>>>> postage 
>>>>> - would like to see them go to a good home, as it were. 
>>>>>
>>>>> I live in Southampton, UK just in case there is a hit on here. 
>>>>>
>>>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Does anyone have a use for a VS10H Trochotron ?

[Jon]

Hi Nick,

I'd be interested in one, and happy to pay the postage (I'm in the UK too - 
Hertfordshire).

Thanks,

Jon.


On Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 4:13:07 PM UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:

> I'm sorry to say that I didn't even know what one of those was until I 
> googled it :-(
>
> On a more positive note - hello near neighbour - I live just west of 
> Chichester!
>
>  - Richard
>
>
> On Tuesday, 20 October 2020 16:01:09 UTC+1, Nick Sargeant wrote:
>>
>> Having not really discovered a use for them - I think I have two in a 
>> collection of vintage stuff that came to me from a death in the family of a 
>> friend of a nephew. Will ship to anyone interested in refunding the postage 
>> - would like to see them go to a good home, as it were. 
>>
>> I live in Southampton, UK just in case there is a hit on here. 
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[Jon]

Sharp eyes Grahame, and some sharp deductions too...

The tube is indeed spinning, quite quickly. So we are looking at a 
persistence of vision effect, but not one created by a highly specific 
camera shutter speed - this is what the tube looks like to the naked eye. 
And neither is the tube being abused with a funky hook-up, it's operating 
in the manufacturer's reference circuit (might be give or take on the odd 
component value, I don't remember). It is a commercial tube, not a 
prototype / developmental tube. Your comment on mica vs ceramic is spot on 
- the family of tubes of which this is a member do switch from mica 
supports to ceramics. I have not actually seen an example of this 
particular type with a ceramic support, but I have no reason to believe 
they were not made.

So, very nice progress. Anyone able to get us all the way over the line?

Jon.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[Jon]

> Well, it's not an A-101  

That's true. And for the same reason that it could not be a 6802...

Jon.

On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 4:15:11 AM UTC+1 gregebert wrote:

> Well, it's not an A-101
>
> On Saturday, October 17, 2020 at 11:07:57 AM UTC-7 M1 wrote:
>
>> My guess is a 6802, because it looks like the one I have right in front 
>> of me.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Michail 
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
>> Of *Jon
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:55 AM
>> *To:* neonixie-l 
>> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!
>>
>>  
>>
>> OK, challenge time for the dekatron afficionados... It's very simple - 
>> identify the dekatron in the picture and explain how you came up with your 
>> answer. The image hasn't been doctored in any way other than cropping to 
>> remove extraneous material.
>>
>>  
>>
>> No prizes, just fun (which frankly we all need more of these days). And 
>> Martin isn't allowed to comment yet, because he and I have already talked 
>> about the tube in email, so he knows the answer :)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Jon. 
>>
>> -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/2ea862e1-7e75-4cdf-9268-7d11ae631ea9n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/2ea862e1-7e75-4cdf-9268-7d11ae631ea9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[Jon]

> My guess is a 6802, because it looks like the one I have right in front 
of me.  

Nice try Michail, but no, it isn't a 6802. I could say that based on the 
style of the anode disc, but actually there's something much more 
fundamental going on which means the mystery tube couldn't possibly be a 
6802 (whether from Sylvania or Raytheon).

Jon.

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[neonixie-l] Re: FS: IN-33, IN-36, A-201

[Jon]

What are the date codes on the A-201?

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: New Google Groups...format..?

[Jon]

It used to work, but at some point it changed.

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 6:53:58 PM UTC+1 Paul Andrews wrote:

> "You do not have permission to 'reply to author' in this group"
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 12:51:21 PM UTC-4 Nick wrote:
>
>> You should see "Reply to author" as an option...
>>
>> On Saturday, 26 September 2020 at 15:42:37 UTC+1 Jon wrote:
>>
>>> And we seem to have lost the ability to PM people through the forum??
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 8:45:49 AM UTC+1 Nick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also... you can no longer edit a message once sent...
>>>>
>>>> Pinning a message to the top also seems to have gone.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, 9 September 2020 at 11:46:51 UTC+1 Bill Notfaded wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Also once you are in the thread you can reply by email.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Who is interested in IN33?

[Jon Jackson]

Yes, I am still interested.

Jon D.

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 1:31 PM Yuriy Ovchinnikov <1219yuri...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I can sell 3 pcs. IN-33 for $18 ea. + shipping.
>
> пн, 21 сент. 2020 г. в 17:19, Jon D. :
>
>> I am interested in purchasing three (3) of the IN-33s.
>>
>> Jon D.
>>
>> On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 7:54:24 AM UTC-6 Юрий Овчинников wrote:
>>
>>>  Now I got 28 pcs. IN-33. I can sale its for $18 ea.
>>>
>>> вт, 18 авг. 2020 г. в 21:32, Yuriy Ovchinnikov <1219y...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, IN-30 is very-very rare tube. I can not find its.
>>>>
>>>> вт, 18 авг. 2020 г. в 09:57, Dekatron42 :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you get hold of the IN-30, the same type of bargraph display as
>>>>> the IN-33 but with just one row/line with dots?
>>>>>
>>>>> /Martin
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, 17 August 2020 20:00:37 UTC+2, Юрий Овчинников wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi guys. Who is interested in IN33?
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> .
>>>>>
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[neonixie-l] Re: Paging Lawrence Wilkins...

[Jon]

>Rumours of Mr Wilkins' demise are, I am pleased to report, somewhat 
premature!

Excellent news! Thanks Laurence - will follow up by email.

Jon.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Paging Lawrence Wilkins...

[Jon]

> I’ve been meaning to contact him for many years, since my Big Time II 
started displaying odd behaviour  

Strangely enough, that's exactly my reason too! Thanks Scott, Michail for 
the input.

Jon.

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[neonixie-l] Paging Lawrence Wilkins...

[Jon]

Apologies Lawrence - the email address I have for you is bouncing. Are you 
still active on here? I have a question about one of your (cool) clocks...

Jon.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: New Google Groups...format..?

[Jon]

And we seem to have lost the ability to PM people through the forum??

Jon.

On Friday, September 11, 2020 at 8:45:49 AM UTC+1 Nick wrote:

> Also... you can no longer edit a message once sent...
>
> Pinning a message to the top also seems to have gone.
>
> On Wednesday, 9 September 2020 at 11:46:51 UTC+1 Bill Notfaded wrote:
>
>> Also once you are in the thread you can reply by email.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Cyclox II clock tube

[Jon]

Testing a possible wrinkle in new Google groups...

On Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at 8:12:52 PM UTC+1 MrNixie (UK) wrote:

> It certainly is! :)
>
> Laurence
> Creator, Designer, Builder and Seller of around 250 CYCLOXes, worldwide.  
>

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