[RBW] Re: Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Nick Payne]

Depends if you're talking rim or disc brake. For disc, you can get NOX 
Composite wheels at around 1400g for the complete wheelset: 
http://www.noxcomposites.com/teocalli275. 

On Wednesday, 17 January 2018 13:26:58 UTC+11, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> Anyone know what that is these days?

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Philip Williamson]

Extra drag on a coaster brake? No. 
Big drag rebuilding the hub with two kinds of grease? Yes. 


Philip
Santa Rosa, CA 


On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 2:05:00 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks. 2 more questions:
>
> Did you feel any additional drag with the coaster brake edition?
>
> And: do you feel safe riding a freewheel with just a front brake? (A 
> second brake of course is largely for backup purposes, since most braking 
> is done with the front.) I know that British Racing Tr*cycles have only 
> front braking, but also have 2 front brakes controlled by the 2 levers, not 
> for more braking power but for backup. But I have been tempted ...
>
> I don't care about flipping the cranks at stops; I'd find that only a 
> minor annoyance.
>
> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 9:52 PM, Philip Williamson  > wrote:
>
>> I’m pretty happy with the S2. I sold the original Quickbeam wheelset to a 
>> friend, so I’ll probably keep the S2 for another year or so. The overdrive 
>> feels fine, and I’ve come to enjoy the click-click-click of the high gear.
>>
>> I had a vintage 2 speed automatic wheel with a coaster brake, and the 
>> brake was kind of a buzz-kill. You can’t flip the cranks around at a light 
>> in the same way that you can with a fixed or coasting drivetrain, and the 
>> hub is heavy. I’d put a rear brake on or risk a front brake failure before 
>> I used a coaster brake again.
>>
>> Philip
>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>
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>
>
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[RBW] New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Surlyprof]

I love my Sam but it is the only bike I have so I swap wheelsets to partially 
achieve the range you’re seeking which is not as gratifying as having two Rivs. 
 I also agree with John’s sentiments (and Bill’s).  If you were to buy a 
Roadini, you would need to buy the parts.  Buy the same light road bike parts 
for the Sam that you’d buy for the Roadini (hub spacing may be the only issue). 
 Ride it for a while and see if it is the Appaloosa departure you were seeking. 
 If it’s not, you can still buy the Roadini and migrate the parts from the Sam, 
sell it and use the proceeds to offset the Roadini cost.  As you’re building it 
up or after you’ve built it up, try to test ride a Roadini.  Then you will have 
a fair comparison and be a much more experienced mechanic.

Of course after saying all that, if you just sell the Sam and buy the Roadini, 
you know you’ll be getting the one designed to fit what you’re looking for as 
Dave suggests.  You will have also had the full Riv new bike experience and 
supported Riv insuring they comtinue to prosper (I’m always happy to support 
Riv with other people’s money).  You will never know how the two compare but 
there’s something to be said for ignorance is bliss.  Plus... new bike day!

John

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Will]

Don't dink around. Get an Atlantis. 

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 6:40:04 PM UTC-6, Broccoli Cog wrote:
>
> Hello friends, I'm looking to do a road bike build and I am having trouble 
> deciding between keeping the Sam Hillborne frameset that I already own or 
> go in an entirely different direction starting from scratch with a new 
> Roadini frameset. I purchased the drop bar Sam as a complete in 2016. This 
> was my first Riv and I completely embraced the Rivendell philosophy of 
> "just ride". That drop bar Sam eventually morphed into an upright Albatross 
> set up. I got away from the drop bars because I wanted to try upright 
> riding to gain maximum comfort. This setup eventually became my S240 bike 
> and I became much more interested in riding with a heavy touring load. As 
> my interest in camping and touring grew I decided that I wanted a dedicated 
> tourer so I picked up an Appaloosa frame and swapped most of the parts over 
> from the Sam.  The Sam frameset is currently sitting in my basement. 
>
> I have decided that my riding would be best served by having two different 
> bike setups. I want to keep the Appaloosa for camping, touring, grocery 
> getting, commuting and casual riding with the Mrs. I want a second bike to 
> be a dedicated drop bar road bike that is unencumbered with racks and large 
> bags. I am thinking about building the Sam back up as a traditional sporty 
> road bike with a compact double crankset, the noodle bars that I already 
> own along with JB 33.'s and fenders. I want this bike to be my 
> relatively fast bike that I ride when I am looking to go out and get a 
> quick ride for pure recreation and fitness. I may even be ambitious enough 
> to go do a group ride with my old riding buddies from back in my racer 
> wannabe days. Lately, the Roadini has been the object of my desire. I am 
> thinking that if I get back into riding on the road in a typical club rider 
> fashion that I would be better served by having a more traditional road 
> bike like the Roadini. My vision for a Roadini would be to build it up in a 
> retro style with downtube shifters, Noodles, Sugino compact double and 28 
> to 33mm tires. 
>
> I think my desire for the Roadini is mostly driven by new bike lust. I 
> feel like I am constantly chasing that feeling you get when you buy a new 
> bike. The reality is what I have found through the years and many bike 
> purchases later is that "new bike day" euphoria typically fades fades and I 
> ended up chasing that feeling again with something else. I know that you 
> guys are not my therapist but can anybody share their thoughts on what 
> decision to make? Should I keep the Sam  and reinvent it as a sporty road 
> bike or should I take the plunge and go for a new Roadini to satisfy my 
> sporty road bike urge?
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Lester Lammers]

*I want this bike to be my relatively fast bike that I ride when I am 
looking to go out and get a quick ride for pure recreation and fitness. I 
may even be ambitious enough to go do a group ride with my old riding 
buddies from back in my racer wannabe days. Lately, the Roadini has been 
the object of my desire. I am thinking that if I get back into riding on 
the road in a typical club rider fashion that I would be better served by 
having a more traditional road bike like the Roadini. My vision for a 
Roadini would be to build it up in a retro style with downtube shifters, 
Noodles, Sugino compact double and 28 to 33mm tires.* 

I think you answered your question. ;-) 

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 7:40:04 PM UTC-5, Broccoli Cog wrote:

> Hello friends, I'm looking to do a road bike build and I am having trouble 
> deciding between keeping the Sam Hillborne frameset that I already own or 
> go in an entirely different direction starting from scratch with a new 
> Roadini frameset. I purchased the drop bar Sam as a complete in 2016. This 
> was my first Riv and I completely embraced the Rivendell philosophy of 
> "just ride". That drop bar Sam eventually morphed into an upright Albatross 
> set up. I got away from the drop bars because I wanted to try upright 
> riding to gain maximum comfort. This setup eventually became my S240 bike 
> and I became much more interested in riding with a heavy touring load. As 
> my interest in camping and touring grew I decided that I wanted a dedicated 
> tourer so I picked up an Appaloosa frame and swapped most of the parts over 
> from the Sam.  The Sam frameset is currently sitting in my basement. 
>
> I have decided that my riding would be best served by having two different 
> bike setups. I want to keep the Appaloosa for camping, touring, grocery 
> getting, commuting and casual riding with the Mrs. I want a second bike to 
> be a dedicated drop bar road bike that is unencumbered with racks and large 
> bags. I am thinking about building the Sam back up as a traditional sporty 
> road bike with a compact double crankset, the noodle bars that I already 
> own along with JB 33.'s and fenders. I want this bike to be my 
> relatively fast bike that I ride when I am looking to go out and get a 
> quick ride for pure recreation and fitness. I may even be ambitious enough 
> to go do a group ride with my old riding buddies from back in my racer 
> wannabe days. Lately, the Roadini has been the object of my desire. I am 
> thinking that if I get back into riding on the road in a typical club rider 
> fashion that I would be better served by having a more traditional road 
> bike like the Roadini. My vision for a Roadini would be to build it up in a 
> retro style with downtube shifters, Noodles, Sugino compact double and 28 
> to 33mm tires. 
>
> I think my desire for the Roadini is mostly driven by new bike lust. I 
> feel like I am constantly chasing that feeling you get when you buy a new 
> bike. The reality is what I have found through the years and many bike 
> purchases later is that "new bike day" euphoria typically fades fades and I 
> ended up chasing that feeling again with something else. I know that you 
> guys are not my therapist but can anybody share their thoughts on what 
> decision to make? Should I keep the Sam  and reinvent it as a sporty road 
> bike or should I take the plunge and go for a new Roadini to satisfy my 
> sporty road bike urge?
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Seeking opinions on 11 speed roadie setup

[Don Compton]

Patrick,
I have Ultegra 11sp on my Roadeo. At 66yo I have little or no need for high 
gears but still enjoy close gears on the flats and rolling hills. I have a 
48-34 crankset with an Ultegra 14-28 cassette. That's a straight block 
14-21 with 23,25 and 28 cogs added. It's like having an older triple. I 
like to keep my rpms at 85 or higher and when riding with friends the close 
gears help me find a comfortable gear which has always helped me maintain 
decent speeds over the length of a ride.. And I always hated the shifting 
and wide Q of a triple crankset.
And after 2 years the Ultegra 11sp has been flawless. All I have done is 
clean the chain, cassette, an cables under the bottom bracket. Not bad for 
a full group that was purchased for  $600 shipped to my home.( shifters, 
brakes,cable set, derailleurs, chains, and cassette)

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:00:24 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> This brings up an interesting question: I know it applies mostly to racing 
> at close to 10/10s, but still: do any of you find that the easier shifting 
> when using brifters translates into measurable speed gains, on the average? 
> I realize that this depends on riding style and conditions, but I think the 
> question can be answered in a general way. 
>
> And while we're at it, do any of you find that more cogs means measurably 
> faster speeds?
>
> I'll tell you what does make for measurably faster speeds, IME: 
> freewheels! Yes indeed, a freewheel will make you faster, at least if you 
> are riding where there are any steepish hills. I was struck -- the only 
> time I bothered to notice it -- when I compared my times on a given route 
> with my tank of a Fargo with very heavy wheels (800 gram rims, 800 gram 
> tires, and much taller to boot) against my times on the much lighter 
> Rivendell road fixies and found them much the same. Combine coasting with 
> downshifting on climbs and you might go faster --who'd a' thunk?
>
> Patrick "fixed and slow is better than coasting and fast" Moore, who once 
> dated a woman because of a bike.
>
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 8:05 AM, Max S > 
> wrote:
>
>> ...At that point I also started using a lighter bike and 9 and 10 sp 
>> drivetrains – Shimano and Campy, respectively – but didn't see too many 
>> improvements. But I did start dating a beautiful girl. Win some, lose some, 
>> I guess.) 
>>
>> Anyhow, I now have just one bike set up with Shimano DA 9sp brifters 
>> (Deda Zero Uno tubing, which is slightly oversize, fits 700c x 28 mm 
>> tires). I have logged faster times on it than on my other bikes even on the 
>> dirt roads. However, I think it's mostly because it reminds me of my racing 
>> days, so I try to hammer a bit more on that bike. :-) 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

On the other similar thread, there was lots of advice to simply strip down 
the Sam and make it sportier rather than go with a Roadini. I'm not in that 
camp when the rider already has an all purpose bike and is seeking light 
load rec and club riding. Sure, there is some overlap with all Rivs--they 
all have that silky, connected ride feel, they take tires that are wide 
relative to the bike model's category, they can be easily outfitted to 
carry stuff--but there are different models for more than just marketing 
reasons. And I think the Roadeo and Roadini models in particular are spec'd 
far enough apart from other models to have an appreciably different ride, 
especially in a club ride situation. Your description of what you want to 
do with the bike, as Lester points out, answers your question clearly. Not 
that the Sam could not handle the task, but the Roadini is definitely the 
better tool for that job description. If it is comfortably in your budget 
at the moment, I would recommend shifting things around and selling unused 
stuff to make way for a Roadini.

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 7:40:04 PM UTC-5, Broccoli Cog wrote:
>
> Hello friends, I'm looking to do a road bike build and I am having trouble 
> deciding between keeping the Sam Hillborne frameset that I already own or 
> go in an entirely different direction starting from scratch with a new 
> Roadini frameset.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[jeffrey kane]

Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give a 
super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me 
what hubs those are. Does anyone know?

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Probably something like this:
>
> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>
> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 hole, 
> build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and use one of 
> the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to around 
> 1200 grams without values or rim tape. 
>
> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>
> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about what 
> you actually plan to use them for. 
>
>
> Reed
>
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong  > wrote:
>
>> Anyone know what that is these days?
>>
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[RBW] Silver Downtube Shifters

[Surlyprof]

I moved my silver shifters from the bar end pods of my Albastache bars to a set 
of Paul thumbies on Albatross bars. Just required the adapter pieces (by Paul). 
 Work great.  I like them much more than the Sunrace thumbies.

John

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[RBW] FS: Canti brake sets - Tektro, VO Grand Cru and Avid Shorty Ultimate

[Surlyprof]

Ash,

What did you ending up using on your Appaloosa?

John

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[RBW] Silver Downtube Shifters

[lum gim fong]

 This video shows you how to install silver shifters on the downtube shifter 
boss. 

https://youtu.be/JSdXdWQ4JeI

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Re: [RBW] Fixed n’ Frosty Winter Medley

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Your experience backs up mine that it's probably best to buy when
you can measure and examine in person.

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Coal Bee Rye Anne <
lionsrugbyalu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I just confirmed what I thought was a 24oz is really a 27oz
> non-insulated widemouth Kleen Kanteen that fits the iris cage same as my
> 20oz insulated HydroFlask.  These are the two that have the same
> interchangeable KK wide caps.  The 27oz KK is a little taller so I think
> the 24oz non-insulated ones are more of an exact match outer dimensionally
> to 20oz insulated.
>
> We then have 32oz insulated and 40oz non-insulated KKanteens that have the
> same interchangeable narrow caps and then a 32oz insulated wide mouth
> HydroFlask with proprietary cap but all three bottles fit the Mojave cage.
>
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[RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Belopsky]

Sell the Sam, buy the Roadini.
That is the sensible thing to do.

I am trying to not buy things I don't need...would have been good advice 5 
bikes ago

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 8:17:54 AM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> On the other similar thread, there was lots of advice to simply strip down 
> the Sam and make it sportier rather than go with a Roadini. I'm not in that 
> camp when the rider already has an all purpose bike and is seeking light 
> load rec and club riding. Sure, there is some overlap with all Rivs--they 
> all have that silky, connected ride feel, they take tires that are wide 
> relative to the bike model's category, they can be easily outfitted to 
> carry stuff--but there are different models for more than just marketing 
> reasons. And I think the Roadeo and Roadini models in particular are spec'd 
> far enough apart from other models to have an appreciably different ride, 
> especially in a club ride situation. Your description of what you want to 
> do with the bike, as Lester points out, answers your question clearly. Not 
> that the Sam could not handle the task, but the Roadini is definitely the 
> better tool for that job description. If it is comfortably in your budget 
> at the moment, I would recommend shifting things around and selling unused 
> stuff to make way for a Roadini.
>
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 7:40:04 PM UTC-5, Broccoli Cog wrote:
>>
>> Hello friends, I'm looking to do a road bike build and I am having 
>> trouble deciding between keeping the Sam Hillborne frameset that I already 
>> own or go in an entirely different direction starting from scratch with a 
>> new Roadini frameset.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Belopsky]

Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>
> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give a 
> super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me 
> what hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Probably something like this:
>>
>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>>
>> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 
>> hole, build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and use 
>> one of the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to 
>> around 1200 grams without values or rim tape. 
>>
>> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>>
>> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about 
>> what you actually plan to use them for. 
>>
>>
>> Reed
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong  wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know what that is these days?
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Fenderless Sam: Snoqualmie or Barlow Pass?

[Surlyprof]

Tom,

I agree with Patrick.  I ride Barlow ELs at about 40# which is close to what 
he’s suggesting Keven Moran, when he was at Riv, suggested I lower the pressure 
and showed me his bike to prove he ran them low.  I tried it on an old mountain 
bike that had too narrow rims for the tires and it was scary.  Felt like my 
tires were about to roll off the rims.  With the BPs on Synergy rims I have 
worked back down to a lower pressure despite my fears.  Of course it took a 
while to get there and I came to it accidentally out of laziness more than 
anything else.  I hadn’t ridden for several weeks and didn’t bother to do a 
quick once over before heading out.  I freaked out a bit when I saw that my 
tires were expanding out at the bottoms.  But, again being lazy, I ignored it 
and continued my ride.  Shortly after I was just enjoying the ride and forgot 
about it.  The ride was the smoothest I’d experienced.  I checked the tires 
when I got home and they were at 40 in the front and 35 in the rear.  Been 
hovering around 40 ever since and have become much more confident on gravel.  
No flats, pinch or otherwise, in a year and a half.

John

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[RBW] Re: Fenderless Sam: Snoqualmie or Barlow Pass?

[tc]

Thanks for chiming in, John.  Yeah, I guess I should be scared of running 
them at to HIGH a pressure since that will likely encourage more flats 
given how thin the tires are.  Nevertheless, I will just have to find the 
sweet spot.  I'm really not that anxious about flatting while riding, since 
I don't commute nor tend to ride roads that have a ton of debris.  Rather, 
it's the stupid things that I can picture myself doing (running up and 
grazing a curb too quickly, letting something in a garage slam up against 
the tire, taking a bumpy-boarded greenway bridge to fast, etc.) that give 
me pause.  That's what extra tubes are for.  Anyway, I'm looking fwd to the 
cush once the snow clears.

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:03:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Tom, 
>
> I agree with Patrick.  I ride Barlow ELs at about 40# which is close to 
> what he’s suggesting...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenderless Sam: Snoqualmie or Barlow Pass?

[Patrick Moore]

Whether you get inch flats in my experience is almost, if not entirely, as
much a matter of how you ride than what your pressure is. I rode 22 mm
actual tires, quite supple -- these were the old Specialized 26 X "`
Turbos, very nice except for width -- at 80/90 for years with rear loads up
to 35 lb across rough pavement with no problems except breaking the
occasional Revolution rear spoke (I fixed that by having the wheel rebuilt
with 14/15s). I let my front tire pressure on 60 mm tires drop to as low as
12 psi and never came close to pinch flatting.

Two other observations: I've noticed what others have reported: stiffer,
heavier tires can get by with lower pressures than supple, light ones, so
that some of the advantage of a supple tire, at least 50+ mm wide ones, and
when run off pavement, is lost because you have to pump them harder. I used
to regularly run my 60 mm Big Apples at 16/19 (I'm 175): sure, these
flopped a bit on pavement turns, but I never came close to pinch flatting.
With my new Big Ones, at ~15 front, I thought I'd fall off the bike when I
made my first pavement turn, so great was the flop, and I quickly increased
pressure to that I used in the 1 cm narrower F Freds, 23 (25-6 rear) --
which makes them less cushiony on dirt than the Big Apples. (Note: I used
tubes in the BAs; the BOs are tubeless, so the absence of tubes may
increase the required minimum pressure slightly; I don't know.)

But the Big Ones are worth it despite no added cushioning because they seem
to roll almost as fast on pavement as good road tires; at any rate, they're
faster than the already fast F Freds on pavement.

And: as far as avoiding pressures that allow wheel flop in turns: I have
concluded that there is no perfect all round pressure for, at least, (a)
supple tires that are (b) fat and (c) ridden on pavement and on dirt: you
will either have some front wheel flop, or your pressure will be less than
ideal for soft dirt. But you won't get pinch flats if you are careful on
any except perhaps the most bumpy terrain.

All of the above for a given rim width. Wider or narrower rims affect
performance, obviously, which leads to the last observation: wider rims for
a given tire, at least for 50 and 60 mm wide tires of given suppleness,
reduce the tire's cushioning effect at a given pressure. I noticed that,
when I swapped 24 mm wide rims to 44 mm wide ones, the 60 mm Big Apples
felt harsher at the same pressures.

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 8:03 AM, Surlyprof  wrote:

> Tom,
>
> I agree with Patrick.  I ride Barlow ELs at about 40# which is close to
> what he’s suggesting Keven Moran, when he was at Riv, suggested I lower the
> pressure and showed me his bike to prove he ran them low.  I tried it on an
> old mountain bike that had too narrow rims for the tires and it was scary.
> Felt like my tires were about to roll off the rims.  With the BPs on
> Synergy rims I have worked back down to a lower pressure despite my fears.
> Of course it took a while to get there and I came to it accidentally out of
> laziness more than anything else.  I hadn’t ridden for several weeks and
> didn’t bother to do a quick once over before heading out.  I freaked out a
> bit when I saw that my tires were expanding out at the bottoms.  But, again
> being lazy, I ignored it and continued my ride.  Shortly after I was just
> enjoying the ride and forgot about it.  The ride was the smoothest I’d
> experienced.  I checked the tires when I got home and they were at 40 in
> the front and 35 in the rear.  Been hovering around 40 ever since and have
> become much more confident on gravel.  No flats, pinch or otherwise, in a
> year and a half.
>
> John
>
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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Philip Kim]

they look great. high flange for strength on 28h rims, but still drilled 
for weight savings. thats one hecka light wheelset

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>
> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give a 
> super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me 
> what hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Probably something like this:
>>
>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>>
>> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 
>> hole, build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and use 
>> one of the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to 
>> around 1200 grams without values or rim tape. 
>>
>> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>>
>> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about 
>> what you actually plan to use them for. 
>>
>>
>> Reed
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong  wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know what that is these days?
>>>
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>>

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Patrick Moore]

That is a very light wheelset for conventional spokes and rims and hubs. My
early 2000s 559/26" Ultegra wheelset was only 100 grams or so lighter (32
Revolution with alloy nipples, very light M14A rims, 8 speed Ultegra hubs)
and that had the very significant saving of rims and spokes 1" shorter, and
rims 4 mm narrower. Wheel weights in general, at least for high end
wheelsets -- rims and hubs in particular -- in seem to have fallen
considerably in the last 10 or 15 years.

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Philip Kim  wrote:

> they look great. high flange for strength on 28h rims, but still drilled
> for weight savings. thats one hecka light wheelset
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>>
>> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give a
>> super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me
>> what hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>> Probably something like this:
>>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-
>>> 5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubeless Maintenance

[William!]

I’ve been thinking about converting to tubeless as well (both my rims and tires 
are compatible) but have been scared away by their new-fangledness and 
reputation for being fussy. I already have pretty good luck with my tubes, very 
rarely a puncture flat but I have had pinch flats when running lower pressure 
on trails. I have zero interest in performance, weight, rolling resistance etc.


Will tubeless save me hassle or create it? Anyone tried tubeless and not found 
it easier? Do you have to pump up your tires more often than with tubed? Other 
gotchas or hidden maintenance costs I should consider?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubeless Maintenance

[Patrick Moore]

If you don't care about tire and tube weight and ride quality, it won't
help you much. I found that Big Apples, tubed, shrugged off most goatheads,
especially on dirt. If you are likely to get large punctures, then sealant
will cause problems because it will not seal them, and if in tubes, will
prevent using a patch on the tube. Tubes are better. I rode 60 mm Big
Apples and tubes off road with pressures at 16/19 with absolutely no
problems. I rode them at ~20/23 on 30+ mph downhills over very rough gravel
-- so rough in patches I couldn't catch my breath and my vision was
blurred; no pinch flats.

I like tubeless off road for weight saving (200 gram tubes) and the ride
quality it allows with super light, supple tires; but if you don't care
about tire weight or riding quality, and don't have thorns, I'd not bother.
As I said in an earlier post, avoiding pinch flats IME is largely a matter
of riding technique.

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 8:53 AM, William! 
wrote:

> I’ve been thinking about converting to tubeless as well (both my rims and
> tires are compatible) but have been scared away by their new-fangledness
> and reputation for being fussy. I already have pretty good luck with my
> tubes, very rarely a puncture flat but I have had pinch flats when running
> lower pressure on trails. I have zero interest in performance, weight,
> rolling resistance etc.
>
>
> Will tubeless save me hassle or create it? Anyone tried tubeless and not
> found it easier? Do you have to pump up your tires more often than with
> tubed? Other gotchas or hidden maintenance costs I should consider?
>
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[RBW] Re: Did you lose your Silver Roadeo?

[Grant @ Rivendell]

Rene,
Send me or call in the serial number. We may be able to trace it to that.
Best to send --email, b/c we're outside today unloading a truck. Serial 
number is on the underside of the bb shell. Also, a photo.

Thanks, man!

gr...@rivbike.com


On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 10:22:14 PM UTC-8, René Rivera wrote:
>
> I just picked up a 56 cm Silver Rivendell Roadeo on the street for a very 
> small amount of $. I am suspect it was stolen and am hoping to connect it 
> to it's owner. It has a well worn brooks saddle and grips, full fenders 
> with mudflaps, red soma tires. Does this sounds familiar? I will be off the 
> grid through the holiday weekend but will be able to respond Monday night. 
> If you can prove ownership by giving me the serial number or build details 
> and reimburse me the $100 I paid it is yours.
>

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[RBW] FS - Nitto Campee front rack

[Bill Schairer]

Sold

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Peter Turskovitch]

For people who have ridden one, is the roadini a fast* bike? Before I got 
practical I used to ride a lot of Italian race bikes from the 1970s and 
1980s. I've had a great time on old Colnagos and Olmos, but now I'd just 
plain like the bars higher. That said, I think that the value proposition 
of the roadini is that it's a *road bike*, not a country or touring bike, 
which happens to have high stack and OK clearance. Is that right? If so, it 
would be nice if the thing was decently fast. 

*I know the motor makes the speed, but there are clear differences between, 
say, a Surly and a Sancineto. Call it what you want, acceleration, response 
to pedal input, snappiness, liveliness, whatever. I'm not talking about 
road vibrations that feel "fast", nor am I talking about top speed, which I 
think is regulated more by drag than anything else. A fast bike lets you 
keep up in a peloton. Is the roadini fast? I sure hope so, because I think 
it looks amazing. 




On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 6:49:12 AM UTC+1, Philip Reimer wrote:
>
> Here are my thoughts. If your Sam would fit me, you should get rid of it!
>
> In all honesty I almost always feel that new bike urge. And it is fun to 
> get a new one. But taking that old bike for a spin usually makes me fall in 
> love again and takes care of my desire for something new. So get some parts 
> bake on the Sam, as close as possible to what you want without spending any 
> money. Take it for a ride, and let that be your decision maker. I bet after 
> 30 minutes on the bike you will know what to do.
>
> Phil
>
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 7:40:04 PM UTC-5, Broccoli Cog wrote:
>>
>> Hello friends, I'm looking to do a road bike build and I am having 
>> trouble deciding between keeping the Sam Hillborne frameset that I already 
>> own or go in an entirely different direction starting from scratch with a 
>> new Roadini frameset. I purchased the drop bar Sam as a complete in 2016. 
>> This was my first Riv and I completely embraced the Rivendell philosophy of 
>> "just ride". That drop bar Sam eventually morphed into an upright Albatross 
>> set up. I got away from the drop bars because I wanted to try upright 
>> riding to gain maximum comfort. This setup eventually became my S240 bike 
>> and I became much more interested in riding with a heavy touring load. As 
>> my interest in camping and touring grew I decided that I wanted a dedicated 
>> tourer so I picked up an Appaloosa frame and swapped most of the parts over 
>> from the Sam.  The Sam frameset is currently sitting in my basement. 
>>
>> I have decided that my riding would be best served by having two 
>> different bike setups. I want to keep the Appaloosa for camping, touring, 
>> grocery getting, commuting and casual riding with the Mrs. I want a second 
>> bike to be a dedicated drop bar road bike that is unencumbered with racks 
>> and large bags. I am thinking about building the Sam back up as a 
>> traditional sporty road bike with a compact double crankset, the noodle 
>> bars that I already own along with JB 33.'s and fenders. I want this 
>> bike to be my relatively fast bike that I ride when I am looking to go out 
>> and get a quick ride for pure recreation and fitness. I may even be 
>> ambitious enough to go do a group ride with my old riding buddies from back 
>> in my racer wannabe days. Lately, the Roadini has been the object of my 
>> desire. I am thinking that if I get back into riding on the road in a 
>> typical club rider fashion that I would be better served by having a more 
>> traditional road bike like the Roadini. My vision for a Roadini would be to 
>> build it up in a retro style with downtube shifters, Noodles, Sugino 
>> compact double and 28 to 33mm tires. 
>>
>> I think my desire for the Roadini is mostly driven by new bike lust. I 
>> feel like I am constantly chasing that feeling you get when you buy a new 
>> bike. The reality is what I have found through the years and many bike 
>> purchases later is that "new bike day" euphoria typically fades fades and I 
>> ended up chasing that feeling again with something else. I know that you 
>> guys are not my therapist but can anybody share their thoughts on what 
>> decision to make? Should I keep the Sam  and reinvent it as a sporty road 
>> bike or should I take the plunge and go for a new Roadini to satisfy my 
>> sporty road bike urge?
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubeless Maintenance

[Deacon Patrick]

William, I found poser tubless (goop in the tube) created hastle for me. Messy, 
fussy, and a rarely get tharn flats, just occational pinch flats (which I 
mostly avoid now) and 1-2x/year bigger gashes, which tubless can’t help with 
anyway.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Adam Kilgas]

This does make for an interesting question... So the Roadini has slightly 
steeper (.5 degree, I believe) head and seat tube angles, the top tube is 
baseball-batted in diameter, but does anyone know what the wall thicknesses are?

Not entirely indicative of sportiness, I know, but these stats are always what 
I fall back on when describing how "sporty" one frame feels from another, 
components being the same.

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[jeffrey kane]

I'm not bugged by the look --- my crankypants problem is that I can't stand 
noisy/buzzing hubs and the options to avoid them seem to only get slimmer 
and slimmer. I think I'll send Pacenti and e-mail and see what they say ...

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:58:48 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>>
>> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give a 
>> super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me 
>> what hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>> Probably something like this:
>>>
>>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>>>
>>> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 
>>> hole, build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and use 
>>> one of the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to 
>>> around 1200 grams without values or rim tape. 
>>>
>>> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>>>
>>> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about 
>>> what you actually plan to use them for. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Reed
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong  wrote:
>>>
 Anyone know what that is these days?

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>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubeless Maintenance

[Patrick Moore]

"Poser"? What do you mean by that?

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[RBW] Re: Riv shipping, a new world record

[Ty Smith]

I remember watching the video introducing the staff at Rivendell and being 
amazed most at the shipping department section! I used to help with 
shipping/receiving for out small family run business when I was in high 
school and can tell you we couldn't even come close to what Jenny and her 
crew are doing. Like others have said, every package I've gotten has been a 
delight to exam and open, so much so that I feel somewhat sad when it is 
all done.

 "Well done!" doesn't even come close!

Ty

On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 9:12:56 AM UTC-8, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
> Shipped means picked, packed, boxed, labeled, prepared for pickup that day 
> at 4pm (in the case of UPS, which is 90 percent). If USPS, it means boxed 
> and taken to the post office that day. Everybody here knows the best-run, 
> most clocklike department here is shipping. A couple of times a year a guy 
> will apply for an "entry level" position here (wants to design bikes in a 
> year), and suggests, "I'd even start in the shipping department!". The 
> insult isn't intended, but there's no better way to start off (and end!) on 
> the wrong foot. 
> Thanks to all who like our shippers!
> G
>
> On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 7:51:50 AM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I put in an order at 2am this morning and just got a "shipped!" notice at 
>> 730am. That's a turnaround of 5-and-a-1/2 hours and will probably be here 
>> tomorrow, which qualifies as one day shipping! 
>>
>> This raises two questions: What the heck am I doing shopping online at 
>> 2am, and who the heck is shipping at RBW at 7?? 🤔
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Patrick Moore]

I have no plans to buy a Roadini, but the question is very interesting in a
general way -- ie, what makes a bike fast, or at least, feel fast? For me,
it's not "planing" -- or at least, I don't feel faster on, say, small-tube,
531 frames than on stouter Rivendell OS frames. If you remove tires and
setup, I think a great deal comes down to geometry and position on the
bike. One of the faster feeling -- and, measuring by felt effort to
maintain a given cadence in well known, given conditions, faster in reality
-- bikes that I rode was actually rather tank like, but when I first rode
it, immediately felt "right" with just the adjustment of bar height and
saddle position.

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 3:36 AM, Peter Turskovitch 
wrote:

> ...
>
> *I know the motor makes the speed, but there are clear differences
> between, say, a Surly and a Sancineto. Call it what you want, acceleration,
> response to pedal input, snappiness, liveliness, whatever. I'm not talking
> about road vibrations that feel "fast", nor am I talking about top speed,
> which I think is regulated more by drag than anything else. A fast bike
> lets you keep up in a peloton. Is the roadini fast? I sure hope so, because
> I think it looks amazing.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[David Stein]

'fast' is so subjective. and what is perceived as fast may not actually be
'fast' if you compare times, it just feels 'faster' (not that there's
anything wrong with that). I do the same route all the time: about 2k feet
of climbing (starting off with a 31-35 minute climb) and ~30 miles. I've
done it repeatedly on a Hunqapillar, a Jones Plus, a FS Trek mtn bike, my
new Rivendell Rosco Road (which is more like a Legolas or Rodeo in terms of
tube thickness and frame build, so I hear), a Gunnar Sport (my lightest and
raciest bike), and a Sam. The one thing I pay attention to is how fast I do
that first 31-35 minute climb using Strava. The fs mtn bike is the slowest
for sure, it actually took  me about 37-38 minutes the other week.
Otherwise, I get w/in 31-33 minutes with every other bike I mentioned,
except the Sam which I only had briefly and honestly sold because I felt it
rode just like the Hunqapillar, even thought the Sam was setup as a
sportier road bike and the Hunq more upright w/ racks and basket. The
Hunqapillar usually took me longer at 35 minutes but I pushed it to 31-32
once or twice and felt pretty good about it. I've been rocking my fastest
times on the Rosco Road lately. I just tuned up the Gunnar and will start
taking that out for the first time in a year to see how it does and
compares to a year of riding the rosco road up there. It's been a while
since I took the Jones but I remember hitting that same 31-33 minute mark
which was surprising to me. All guesstimate numbers as I don't meticulously
track it, but I feel I'm comfortably in the ballpark w/ those numbers based
off my sometimes questionable memory ;)

But in general, I appreciate the extra minute or two I can get on the
Gunnar or Rosco Road, especially when I'm with a faster person and i don't
want to be far enough behind they have to wait for me at the top of the
climb. I could care less about the rest of the ride, for whatever reason
that first climb is my main measurement of speed. For some reason I never
feel concerned about keeping up w/ the group on flats or downhills, its
just the long ass uphills that I want to want to smoke people on, or at
least not leave them waiting at the top. But that's bay area hills with
long extended climbs. Most other rides where it's not so many long climbs
like that, I feel that any bike can be just as 'fast' if I push it. It's
more a matter of feel at that point. And the Gunnar and Rosco Road 'feel
the fastest', and I like that too.

So by that measure, I feel that everything I've heard about the Roadini,
especially that it rides more like a rodeo but w/o the $$$ lugs and
Waterford-built frame, would make it both feel and probably be a little
faster than the Sam, depending on terrain and riding fitness.

However, the big 'If' and the other end of the equation is fitness and
inherit athleticism. I ride a 30-mile road ride once a week almost every
week (sometimes substituting a 10-20 mile dirt ride). I'm not naturally
athletic and more on the slow slide. But I can keep in the top 1/3 on a
club ride even with my heavy ass steel 'touring' bikes (as others call it,
usually the Gunnar or Rosco) due to my fitness and weekly riding. But I
know people who ride way less frequently who show up on a heavier, 'slower'
bike (ahem, Tony and Clayton SF) and kick my ass with little effort and
never seem to get tired. For them, I imagine a Sam would be fine in almost
every scenario. So ultimately I hesitate to say a Roadini would be 'faster'
than a Sam, and here's where you get into a lot of trouble asking opinions
of everyone on the list because some can ride a 50's clunker and kick my
ass on a 13 lb carbon bike, and their idea of 'faster' is way different.

But, I got back to my earlier comment. This sounds like it's really a
question of money at the end of the day. Do I spend $$$ or $ and will I
notice or regret any decision? I doubt you'd ever feel you made the wrong
decision with the Roadini, but w/ the Sam you'll always wonder 'what if'.
If it's a hassle money wise and there's other things you can do with that
money like eat, provide shelter, save for kids college or your retirement,
any smart investor would say save the money. But, since we're all bike
nerds that spend too much money on bikes, then buy it (assuming you've got
the disposable income).

D 'adding to the confusion' Stein

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 2:36 AM, Peter Turskovitch 
wrote:

> For people who have ridden one, is the roadini a fast* bike? Before I got
> practical I used to ride a lot of Italian race bikes from the 1970s and
> 1980s. I've had a great time on old Colnagos and Olmos, but now I'd just
> plain like the bars higher. That said, I think that the value proposition
> of the roadini is that it's a *road bike*, not a country or touring bike,
> which happens to have high stack and OK clearance. Is that right? If so, it
> would be nice if the thing was decently fast.
>
> *I know the motor makes the speed, but there are clear differences
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Fenderless Sam: Snoqualmie or Barlow Pass?

[tc]

Aren't Big Apples great?  I run 2"ers on my Ogre (with Jones bar and uncut 
steerer tube) sometimes as something different, and I gotta tell you that 
is one sweet bike.  I was amazed at the difference (for the better) 
compared to the stock WTB Nanos, which aren't shabbyy actually.  Sometimes 
I have to laugh at myself sweating over grams of tire weight, when I know 
good and well I don't really notice an extra water bottles' worth of weight 
in tires alone on that thing, compared to some of the light tires we all 
talk about.  That Ogre (aptly named) just glides silently and smoothly, 
looking ugly as heck but I don't care...it's just really comfortable.

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:19:05 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>  I used to regularly run my 60 mm Big Apples at 16/19 (I'm 175): sure, 
> these flopped a bit on pavement turns, but I never came close to pinch 
> flatting...
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Patrick Moore]

I didn't read up about it, but I thought the Rosco was more in the line of
the Clem or whatever stout tubed upright bike replaced it. Is it really
comparable to the Legolas?  -- Not that it matters necessarily; as I said
elsewhere, one of the "fastest" bikes I owned was a tank jettisoned by
previous owners because it was too stout.

Was just reading the latest BQ, where Jan once again mentions that the
Jones he tested rode *as fast as the fastest road bikes they tested.*

If I were smart, I'd sell my fleet and buy a Jones. But not until Compass
makes Rat Trap Passes in whatever size the Jones uses.


On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 10:37 AM, David Stein  wrote:

>   , my new Rivendell Rosco Road (which is more like a Legolas or Rodeo
> in terms of tube thickness and frame build, so I hear),  . It's been a
> while since I took the Jones but I remember hitting that same 31-33 minute
> mark which was surprising to me.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubeless Maintenance

[Deacon Patrick]

Similar to poser single speed (ride only one gear in the cassette) or poser 
fixed (ride poser ss, but with the pedals always engaged), poser tubless is 
putting the goop into the tube rather than going full on tubless.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Christopher Cote]

I have a Heron Touring, which is pretty close to the Sam, and a Rambouillet, 
which is similar to the Roadini. The Ram is noticably sportier feeling. I say 
buy the Roadini. However, building the Sam with lighter wheels is a good second 
best. Good luck with whatever you decide! 

Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubeless Maintenance

[Patrick Moore]

Understood; it's not an epithet of reproach.

Patrick Moore, who poses his Elk Pass tires this way, in ABQ, NM

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 10:52 AM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Similar to poser single speed (ride only one gear in the cassette) or
> poser fixed (ride poser ss, but with the pedals always engaged), poser
> tubless is putting the goop into the tube rather than going full on tubless.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[David Stein]

There were a couple of Rosco versions. The Rosco Road which I have and is
designed for drop bars and I've heard compared to the Legolas, and the
Mixte which was more upright, and I think another one that was also upright
if I recall but don't remember. Maybe I'm wrong on the the mixte, but there
was definitely a drop bar road version and an upright or two versions.
Either way, I wasn't expecting the Rosco Road to be my go to fast road
bike, especially after going through a Sam and a Hunq (with various version
of drop bars and upright bars, stripped down and loaded w/
racks/bags/lights/fendors), but it is. Using G One 38mm tires and no racks.
Sugino cranks and deore parts.

D "I'm closing my gmail so I can get back to work and not going to think
about bikes for the rest of the day" Stein

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I didn't read up about it, but I thought the Rosco was more in the line of
> the Clem or whatever stout tubed upright bike replaced it. Is it really
> comparable to the Legolas?  -- Not that it matters necessarily; as I said
> elsewhere, one of the "fastest" bikes I owned was a tank jettisoned by
> previous owners because it was too stout.
>
> Was just reading the latest BQ, where Jan once again mentions that the
> Jones he tested rode *as fast as the fastest road bikes they tested.*
>
> If I were smart, I'd sell my fleet and buy a Jones. But not until Compass
> makes Rat Trap Passes in whatever size the Jones uses.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 10:37 AM, David Stein 
> wrote:
>
>>   , my new Rivendell Rosco Road (which is more like a Legolas or
>> Rodeo in terms of tube thickness and frame build, so I hear),  . It's
>> been a while since I took the Jones but I remember hitting that same 31-33
>> minute mark which was surprising to me.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Patrick Moore]

To: Dan Stein
From: Patrick Moore, who should be writing resjmes
Date/Time: When he gets off work and opens up the list again
Subject: Rivendell Rosco Roads

Thanks. That's very interesting I'd be delighted to hear anyone compare
actual riding experience of such roady roscos to the Legolas and the Roadeo.

If you should care to post photos of your Rosco, I would not raise too much
of a fuss.

Thanks, Patrick

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 10:54 AM, David Stein  wrote:

> There were a couple of Rosco versions. The Rosco Road which I have and is
> designed for drop bars and I've heard compared to the Legolas, and the
> Mixte which was more upright, and I think another one that was also upright
> if I recall but don't remember. Maybe I'm wrong on the the mixte, but there
> was definitely a drop bar road version and an upright or two versions.
> Either way, I wasn't expecting the Rosco Road to be my go to fast road
> bike, especially after going through a Sam and a Hunq (with various version
> of drop bars and upright bars, stripped down and loaded w/
> racks/bags/lights/fendors), but it is. Using G One 38mm tires and no racks.
> Sugino cranks and deore parts.
>
> D "I'm closing my gmail so I can get back to work and not going to think
> about bikes for the rest of the day" Stein
>
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> I didn't read up about it, but I thought the Rosco was more in the line
>> of the Clem or whatever stout tubed upright bike replaced it. Is it really
>> comparable to the Legolas?  -- Not that it matters necessarily; as I said
>> elsewhere, one of the "fastest" bikes I owned was a tank jettisoned by
>> previous owners because it was too stout.
>>
>> Was just reading the latest BQ, where Jan once again mentions that the
>> Jones he tested rode *as fast as the fastest road bikes they tested.*
>>
>> If I were smart, I'd sell my fleet and buy a Jones. But not until Compass
>> makes Rat Trap Passes in whatever size the Jones uses.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 10:37 AM, David Stein 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>   , my new Rivendell Rosco Road (which is more like a Legolas or
>>> Rodeo in terms of tube thickness and frame build, so I hear),  . It's
>>> been a while since I took the Jones but I remember hitting that same 31-33
>>> minute mark which was surprising to me.
>>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: Pics of your 59cm Clem L's

[tc]

Wow I really love the look of this bike in black with black fenders and fat 
tires!  Looks like a (better) dutch bike.  Triggered memory of Constance 
Winters' post when she received her Clementine, calling it something like 
inexplicably magical.  I wish she'd gotten around to writing a follow up.  

I found it:  
http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2016/09/clementine-belated-befuddled-bedazzled.html

Tom

On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 12:41:07 PM UTC-5, Alex Wirth- Owner, 
Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote:
>
> Rear loaded:
>
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BWB2iQNB3Ar/?hl=en&taken-by=yellowhausbicycles
>
> Naked:
>
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BU65lUJBBUN/?hl=en&taken-by=yellowhausbicycles
>
> Path racer:
>
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BTG4j2mhGSc/?hl=en&taken-by=yellowhausbicycles
>
> I have large wald and shop sack mounted to the big nitto with hub area 
> bags now.and a medium saddle sack.  I think I like that combo the best 
> so far.
>
> Alex Wirth
> Rochester, NY
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[David Hays]

My problem as well. I had Pacenti rims made into wheels locally and picked up 
classic style VO Gand Cru hubs for them.
Beautiful but so noisy. People suggested I just keep peddling to stop the 
noise...

> On Jan 17, 2018, at 12:15 PM, jeffrey kane  wrote:
> 
> I'm not bugged by the look --- my crankypants problem is that I can't stand 
> noisy/buzzing hubs and the options to avoid them seem to only get slimmer and 
> slimmer. I think I'll send Pacenti and e-mail and see what they say ...
> 
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:58:48 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
> Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/
> 
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give a 
> super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me what 
> hubs those are. Does anyone know?
> 
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
> Probably something like this:
> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>  
> 
> 
> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 hole, 
> build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and use one of 
> the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to around 1200 
> grams without values or rim tape. 
> 
> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
> 
> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about what 
> you actually plan to use them for. 
> 
> 
> Reed
> 
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong > wrote:
> Anyone know what that is these days?
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenderless Sam: Snoqualmie or Barlow Pass?

[Patrick Moore]

If it weren't for modern sealants like Stan's and Orange Seal, I'd still be
riding 60 mm Big Apples on dirt and Kojaks on pavement, with tubes. I must
say that, while I think Compass has among the fastest riding tires out
there, Schwalbe has gone at least as far with their lineup of tires that
range from as light or lighter than Compass ones to manhole-iron models
that you can't puncture with hammer and nail, and, especially, in between,
tires that are (1) actually usable in goathead country and (2) yet still
have decent riding qualities -- in particular, the BA and the Kojak. The
Big Apple would actually ride through goathead patches and come out with
scores of thorns in the tread; scrape them off and Bob's your uncle. The
Kojak, on pavement, resisted thorns to fewer than 5 flats a week --
remarkable compared to say the 559 X 32 non TG Pasela. (5 flats a week: I'm
not exaggerating for effect; when I first installed the original "clincher
tubular" Parigi Roubaix on my Ram, I got -- this is literal description --
5 flats within less than 10 miles, all thorns; and used up -- ditto -- 50
or more patches in the first week. Stan's made them viable.)

But man! For a tire that is fully as phat and plump and erotically *soft
and round* as a Big Apple at 16/19, the Big One -- the no-holds-barred
light model -- is a joy to behold and to ride. Four hundred and less than
50 effing grams!!! Even the "Liteskin" Big Apple weighed 800, and the
regular was 90-0. And with a carcase that wears like a normal tire! When I
removed the rear Furious Fred to install the Big Ones, the FF had 2904
miles on it, the little center-tread nubbins were still raised above the
carcase, so that I guess 500 more trouble free miles were in it, and this
tire, weighed on a mail scale, was 360 grams. Really amazing.

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 10:50 AM, tc  wrote:

> Aren't Big Apples great?  I run 2"ers on my Ogre (with Jones bar and uncut
> steerer tube) sometimes as something different, and I gotta tell you that
> is one sweet bike.  I was amazed at the difference (for the better)
> compared to the stock WTB Nanos, which aren't shabbyy actually.  Sometimes
> I have to laugh at myself sweating over grams of tire weight, when I know
> good and well I don't really notice an extra water bottles' worth of weight
> in tires alone on that thing, compared to some of the light tires we all
> talk about.  That Ogre (aptly named) just glides silently and smoothly,
> looking ugly as heck but I don't care...it's just really comfortable.
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:19:05 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>  I used to regularly run my 60 mm Big Apples at 16/19 (I'm 175):
>> sure, these flopped a bit on pavement turns, but I never came close to
>> pinch flatting...
>>
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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Tim Gavin]

VO recommends adding a couple drops of light oil to the pawls to quiet
their VO Grand Cru hub.
I noticed a very significant drop in pawl noise after application.
Phil tenacious oil works great.  Repeat ~quarterly for best results.

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM, David Hays <23writ...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My problem as well. I had Pacenti rims made into wheels locally and picked
> up classic style VO Gand Cru hubs for them.
> Beautiful but so noisy. People suggested I just keep peddling to stop the
> noise...
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2018, at 12:15 PM, jeffrey kane  wrote:
>
> I'm not bugged by the look --- my crankypants problem is that I can't
> stand noisy/buzzing hubs and the options to avoid them seem to only get
> slimmer and slimmer. I think I'll send Pacenti and e-mail and see what they
> say ...
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:58:48 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>>>
>>> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give
>>> a super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me
>>> what hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:

 Probably something like this:
 https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-
 5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano

 Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36
 hole, build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and use
 one of the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to
 around 1200 grams without values or rim tape.

 They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it.

 I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about
 what you actually plan to use them for.


 Reed

 On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong 
 wrote:

> Anyone know what that is these days?
>
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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[David Hays]

Thanks. I’ll give that a try when a big thaw finally arrives.


> On Jan 17, 2018, at 1:12 PM, Tim Gavin  wrote:
> 
> VO recommends adding a couple drops of light oil to the pawls to quiet their 
> VO Grand Cru hub.  
> I noticed a very significant drop in pawl noise after application.
> Phil tenacious oil works great.  Repeat ~quarterly for best results.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM, David Hays <23writ...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
> My problem as well. I had Pacenti rims made into wheels locally and picked up 
> classic style VO Gand Cru hubs for them.
> Beautiful but so noisy. People suggested I just keep peddling to stop the 
> noise...
> 
> 
>> On Jan 17, 2018, at 12:15 PM, jeffrey kane > > wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not bugged by the look --- my crankypants problem is that I can't stand 
>> noisy/buzzing hubs and the options to avoid them seem to only get slimmer 
>> and slimmer. I think I'll send Pacenti and e-mail and see what they say ...
>> 
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:58:48 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>> Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/
>> 
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give a 
>> super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me what 
>> hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>> 
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>> Probably something like this:
>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 hole, 
>> build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and use one of 
>> the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to around 1200 
>> grams without values or rim tape. 
>> 
>> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>> 
>> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about what 
>> you actually plan to use them for. 
>> 
>> 
>> Reed
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong > wrote:
>> Anyone know what that is these days?
>> 
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> .
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>> 
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[jeffrey kane]

Ever the gentleman, K/P replied quickly and gave his approval to repost his 
answers here:

I asked:

*Am particularly curious about the hubs, are they branded Pacenti? Or if not, 
who makes them (they're quite good looking!)? Great call on the 28H.  Lastly, 
how would you rate the noise level of the rear hub on a scale running from 
Shimano quiet to Industry 9 deafening with say, BiTex, White Ind. and Chris 
King in between?*


He replied:

Jeffrey, 

Thank you for your interest in our Brevet wheel sets, they really are 
fantastic, (imo). 

The hubs are branded Pacenti, and are heavily inspired by high flange 
Campagnolo Record hubs, for a very "classic" look. 

The hubs are really close to White Industries or BiTex; certainly not as 
quite as Shimano, but nowhere near as loud as I9 or Hope. 

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Btw, the wheels 
do come with rim strips, but not QR skewers, those are sold separately. 

Best regards,

 Kirk A. Pacenti

so ... there you go.


On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:13:36 PM UTC-5, David Hays wrote:
>
> Thanks. I’ll give that a try when a big thaw finally arrives.
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2018, at 1:12 PM, Tim Gavin  > wrote:
>
> VO recommends adding a couple drops of light oil to the pawls to quiet 
> their VO Grand Cru hub.  
> I noticed a very significant drop in pawl noise after application.
> Phil tenacious oil works great.  Repeat ~quarterly for best results.
>
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM, David Hays <23wr...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
>> My problem as well. I had Pacenti rims made into wheels locally and 
>> picked up classic style VO Gand Cru hubs for them.
>> Beautiful but so noisy. People suggested I just keep peddling to stop the 
>> noise...
>>
>>
>> On Jan 17, 2018, at 12:15 PM, jeffrey kane > > wrote:
>>
>> I'm not bugged by the look --- my crankypants problem is that I can't 
>> stand noisy/buzzing hubs and the options to avoid them seem to only get 
>> slimmer and slimmer. I think I'll send Pacenti and e-mail and see what they 
>> say ...
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:58:48 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:

 Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can give 
 a super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear to me 
 what hubs those are. Does anyone know?

 On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Probably something like this:
>
> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>
> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 
> hole, build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and 
> use 
> one of the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to 
> around 1200 grams without values or rim tape. 
>
> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>
> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about 
> what you actually plan to use them for. 
>
>
> Reed
>
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong  
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone know what that is these days?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>> -- 
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>>
>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Bill Lindsay]

The OP didn't specify if he wanted or needed a 135mm OLD rear wheel, but I 
suspect many readers of this thread have 650B Rivendells, which are almost 
exclusively 135mm in back.  I did not see whether that Pacenti page 
specifies rear OLD.  Since it doesn't say, I'm assuming it's probably 
130mm.  Is that correct?  Is it convertible?  I think the wheels look 
splendid. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:19:28 AM UTC-8, jeffrey kane wrote:
>
> Ever the gentleman, K/P replied quickly and gave his approval to repost 
> his answers here:
>
> I asked:
>
> *Am particularly curious about the hubs, are they branded Pacenti? Or if not, 
> who makes them (they're quite good looking!)? Great call on the 28H.  Lastly, 
> how would you rate the noise level of the rear hub on a scale running from 
> Shimano quiet to Industry 9 deafening with say, BiTex, White Ind. and Chris 
> King in between?*
>
>
> He replied:
>
> Jeffrey, 
>
> Thank you for your interest in our Brevet wheel sets, they really are 
> fantastic, (imo). 
>
> The hubs are branded Pacenti, and are heavily inspired by high flange 
> Campagnolo Record hubs, for a very "classic" look. 
>
> The hubs are really close to White Industries or BiTex; certainly not as 
> quite as Shimano, but nowhere near as loud as I9 or Hope. 
>
> If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Btw, the wheels 
> do come with rim strips, but not QR skewers, those are sold separately. 
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Kirk A. Pacenti
>
> so ... there you go.
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:13:36 PM UTC-5, David Hays wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. I’ll give that a try when a big thaw finally arrives.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 17, 2018, at 1:12 PM, Tim Gavin  
>> wrote:
>>
>> VO recommends adding a couple drops of light oil to the pawls to quiet 
>> their VO Grand Cru hub.  
>> I noticed a very significant drop in pawl noise after application.
>> Phil tenacious oil works great.  Repeat ~quarterly for best results.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM, David Hays <23wr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My problem as well. I had Pacenti rims made into wheels locally and 
>>> picked up classic style VO Gand Cru hubs for them.
>>> Beautiful but so noisy. People suggested I just keep peddling to stop 
>>> the noise...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 17, 2018, at 12:15 PM, jeffrey kane  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not bugged by the look --- my crankypants problem is that I can't 
>>> stand noisy/buzzing hubs and the options to avoid them seem to only get 
>>> slimmer and slimmer. I think I'll send Pacenti and e-mail and see what they 
>>> say ...
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:58:48 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:

 Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/

 On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>
> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can 
> give a super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear 
> to 
> me what hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Probably something like this:
>>
>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>>
>> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 
>> hole, build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and 
>> use 
>> one of the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to 
>> around 1200 grams without values or rim tape. 
>>
>> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>>
>> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more about 
>> what you actually plan to use them for. 
>>
>>
>> Reed
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know what that is these days?
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch
>>> .
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New Roadini or hang on to Sam

[Carla Waugh]

I have a Sam and a 650 B and an older Waterford 2200. Maybe keep the Sam and 
buy a used Waterford with a 1” threaded headset and raise the bars. It’s 
certainly not a Riv. but it can be set up as a go fast bike. 

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[jeffrey kane]

Also via Kirk P:


*The rear hub is spaced for 130mm and is not currently convertable (I'll 
look into that), so I don't know how well that will work for 135mm spaced 
Rivendell frames, but it will work fine for the 132.5mm spaced, Rivendell 
frames. *
jsk

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:26:43 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The OP didn't specify if he wanted or needed a 135mm OLD rear wheel, but I 
> suspect many readers of this thread have 650B Rivendells, which are almost 
> exclusively 135mm in back.  I did not see whether that Pacenti page 
> specifies rear OLD.  Since it doesn't say, I'm assuming it's probably 
> 130mm.  Is that correct?  Is it convertible?  I think the wheels look 
> splendid. 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:19:28 AM UTC-8, jeffrey kane wrote:
>>
>> Ever the gentleman, K/P replied quickly and gave his approval to repost 
>> his answers here:
>>
>> I asked:
>>
>> *Am particularly curious about the hubs, are they branded Pacenti? Or if 
>> not, who makes them (they're quite good looking!)? Great call on the 28H.  
>> Lastly, how would you rate the noise level of the rear hub on a scale 
>> running from Shimano quiet to Industry 9 deafening with say, BiTex, White 
>> Ind. and Chris King in between?*
>>
>>
>> He replied:
>>
>> Jeffrey, 
>>
>> Thank you for your interest in our Brevet wheel sets, they really are 
>> fantastic, (imo). 
>>
>> The hubs are branded Pacenti, and are heavily inspired by high flange 
>> Campagnolo Record hubs, for a very "classic" look. 
>>
>> The hubs are really close to White Industries or BiTex; certainly not as 
>> quite as Shimano, but nowhere near as loud as I9 or Hope. 
>>
>> If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Btw, the 
>> wheels do come with rim strips, but not QR skewers, those are sold 
>> separately. 
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>  Kirk A. Pacenti
>>
>> so ... there you go.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:13:36 PM UTC-5, David Hays wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks. I’ll give that a try when a big thaw finally arrives.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 17, 2018, at 1:12 PM, Tim Gavin  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> VO recommends adding a couple drops of light oil to the pawls to quiet 
>>> their VO Grand Cru hub.  
>>> I noticed a very significant drop in pawl noise after application.
>>> Phil tenacious oil works great.  Repeat ~quarterly for best results.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM, David Hays <23wr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 My problem as well. I had Pacenti rims made into wheels locally and 
 picked up classic style VO Gand Cru hubs for them.
 Beautiful but so noisy. People suggested I just keep peddling to stop 
 the noise...


 On Jan 17, 2018, at 12:15 PM, jeffrey kane  wrote:

 I'm not bugged by the look --- my crankypants problem is that I can't 
 stand noisy/buzzing hubs and the options to avoid them seem to only get 
 slimmer and slimmer. I think I'll send Pacenti and e-mail and see what 
 they 
 say ...

 On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:58:48 AM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Not sure what they are either, but I dislike the look :/
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 9:17:16 AM UTC-5, jeffrey kane wrote:
>>
>> Wowza, I doidn't know Pacenti was offering built wheel sets. I can 
>> give a super-positive thumbs up to the Brevet rim ... but it's not clear 
>> to 
>> me what hubs those are. Does anyone know?
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:06:01 AM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Probably something like this:
>>>
>>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/products/brevet-wheel-set-27-5-650b-rim-brake-11speed-shimano
>>>
>>> Though if you wanted to get truly silly you could buy A23 rims in 36 
>>> hole, build them up skipping every other hole with only 18 spokes, and 
>>> use 
>>> one of the ridiculous-light hubsets you could probably get them down to 
>>> around 1200 grams without values or rim tape. 
>>>
>>> They wouldn’t be good for much, but you could do it. 
>>>
>>> I might be able to provide a more useful answer if you say more 
>>> about what you actually plan to use them for. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Reed
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:27 PM lum gim fong  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Anyone know what that is these days?

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[lum gim fong]

650b 130 or 135
Recreational road riding and commuting.
Would like to spin up faster and see if there will be less sluggishness with a 
lighter set. Not that anything is wrong or sluggish about what I have now (GB 
650b 36 spoke). I just decided that from now on that anytime I need to replace 
parts it will be with lighter stuff than is on there now, but within the realm 
of my usefulness/durability needs. The Pacentis are intriguing. Wonder if they 
can handle regular curb hopping with 42mm tires at 40psi.

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[RBW] Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Bob Lovejoy]

Anything I know about rims is probably rooted too far in the past to be 
useful so I am curious about what people are doing and using.

If one were to build up a relatively light and fast wheel set, rim brake, 
700c, for 700x30-47mm tires, ~195-200lb rider with maybe 10-12 pounds of 
gear, something tough enough for unpaved trails and imperfect roads but not 
necessarily singletrack...

What rims/hubs/build specs (28 vs 32 vs 36h?, 2x/3x lacing?) would you use 
or have used with success?  Just curious as the suggestion has come up a 
lot (for lighter wheels) and my knowledge is limited as to what is now out 
there, especially for rim-brake wheels.  I know too that narrower rims can 
be used for wider tires but it would still be great to be within 
recommended widths, at least close.

Any help appreciated - and it might be useful to others as well.

Bob Lovejoy
Galesburg, IL 

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[RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Brian Campbell]

I use Mavic Open Pros w/ 32/32 Ultegra Hubs (10 Speed) & 35mm-38mm Compass 
tire for thousands of trouble free miles. I am 6'1" and weigh 185. Wheels 
are 3 cross.

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:34:33 PM UTC-5, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> Anything I know about rims is probably rooted too far in the past to be 
> useful so I am curious about what people are doing and using.
>
> If one were to build up a relatively light and fast wheel set, rim brake, 
> 700c, for 700x30-47mm tires, ~195-200lb rider with maybe 10-12 pounds of 
> gear, something tough enough for unpaved trails and imperfect roads but not 
> necessarily singletrack...
>
> What rims/hubs/build specs (28 vs 32 vs 36h?, 2x/3x lacing?) would you use 
> or have used with success?  Just curious as the suggestion has come up a 
> lot (for lighter wheels) and my knowledge is limited as to what is now out 
> there, especially for rim-brake wheels.  I know too that narrower rims can 
> be used for wider tires but it would still be great to be within 
> recommended widths, at least close.
>
> Any help appreciated - and it might be useful to others as well.
>
> Bob Lovejoy
> Galesburg, IL 
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Canti brake sets - Tektro, VO Grand Cru and Avid Shorty Ultimate

[Philip Williamson]

PM sent on the Avids (but that "groups" function seems flaky). 
I'm also interested in your final choice for the Appaloosa. 

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 12:48:31 PM UTC-8, Ash wrote:
>
>
> Price drop:
>
> Tektro CR710 - $35
> VO Grand Cru Zeste - $60
> Avid Short Ultimate - $75
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 30 December 2017 16:00:48 UTC-8, Ash [who works to bike] 
> wrote:
>>
>> Accumulated these in the process of deciding on brakes for my Appaloosa 
>> back in June.  I have used them each for 100 miles or less.  
>>
>> Prices shipped (within USA).  All are front/back set.
>>
>> Tektro CR710 - $45
>> VO Grand Cru Zeste - $70
>> Avid Short Ultimate - $90
>>
>> Pictures:
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/ccarTTwW0tQrGxk42
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[jeffrey kane]

Any decent wheel can hop a curb or take an urban pothole here or there, 
really (even lightweight 700c racing wheels). However, I suppose that 
ham-fisted curb BASHING (if that's what you're referring to) would be 
something else altogether, I guess.

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:23:19 PM UTC-5, lum gim fong wrote:
>
> 650b 130 or 135
> Recreational road riding and commuting.
> Would like to spin up faster and see if there will be less sluggishness 
> with a lighter set. Not that anything is wrong or sluggish about what I 
> have now (GB 650b 36 spoke). I just decided that from now on that anytime I 
> need to replace parts it will be with lighter stuff than is on there now, 
> but within the realm of my usefulness/durability needs. The Pacentis are 
> intriguing. Wonder if they can handle regular curb hopping with 42mm tires 
> at 40psi.

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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[lum gim fong]

No bashin’
Just hoppin’

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Re: [RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Jim Bronson]

Open Pros for mixed surface roads  Uh, sure, if you like clanking
pinned joints.

I recommend something with a welded joint for this duty.  The Pacenti
Brevet is a nice rim and the esthetic goes well with a Rivendell.  Weight
is 455 grams, so not bleeding edge lightweight, but pretty light, and
appropriate for the duty.  It's available in 28, 32, 36H.  Choose your
favorite roadie hubset to go with it for a fairly lightweight wheelset.

Pacenti's site appears to be down, but here is Google's cached copy of it:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?variant=910380531732


On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 1:39 PM, Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> I use Mavic Open Pros w/ 32/32 Ultegra Hubs (10 Speed) & 35mm-38mm Compass
> tire for thousands of trouble free miles. I am 6'1" and weigh 185. Wheels
> are 3 cross.
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:34:33 PM UTC-5, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>>
>> Anything I know about rims is probably rooted too far in the past to be
>> useful so I am curious about what people are doing and using.
>>
>> If one were to build up a relatively light and fast wheel set, rim brake,
>> 700c, for 700x30-47mm tires, ~195-200lb rider with maybe 10-12 pounds of
>> gear, something tough enough for unpaved trails and imperfect roads but not
>> necessarily singletrack...
>>
>> What rims/hubs/build specs (28 vs 32 vs 36h?, 2x/3x lacing?) would you
>> use or have used with success?  Just curious as the suggestion has come up
>> a lot (for lighter wheels) and my knowledge is limited as to what is now
>> out there, especially for rim-brake wheels.  I know too that narrower rims
>> can be used for wider tires but it would still be great to be within
>> recommended widths, at least close.
>>
>> Any help appreciated - and it might be useful to others as well.
>>
>> Bob Lovejoy
>> Galesburg, IL
>>
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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Tim Gavin]

I built a set of wheels for my Riv, with 36h Pacenti PL23 (the model the
Brevet replaces).

I usually run 40-45 psi in 650x38 Pari-Moto tires.  I'm #250 and I don't
ride gentle, and I've definitely hopped some curbs and ridden in the dirt.

No dents in ~3 years and ~4000 miles.

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 1:23 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> 650b 130 or 135
> Recreational road riding and commuting.
> Would like to spin up faster and see if there will be less sluggishness
> with a lighter set. Not that anything is wrong or sluggish about what I
> have now (GB 650b 36 spoke). I just decided that from now on that anytime I
> need to replace parts it will be with lighter stuff than is on there now,
> but within the realm of my usefulness/durability needs. The Pacentis are
> intriguing. Wonder if they can handle regular curb hopping with 42mm tires
> at 40psi.
>
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Re: [RBW] Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Jim Bronson]

I'm using 2nd gen PL23 on my Riv now too, same tire size in Compass
LoupLoup.  Love these rims!  A very noticeable difference in feeling to the
prior Soma Weymouth that I had on the same hubs.  The PL23 spin up much
nicer, the Weymouths felt heavy and draggy.

I wish I could say I was still 250, but I'm on the north side of 300, and
they're doing fine with the load.  Rode 22 miles on Sunday and Monday
before the ice storm hit.

If I had to replace these PL23's, I would replace them with a Pacenti
Brevet.  I also own a pair of Pacenti SL23s, love those too.  Pacenti are
the best rims that I have owned, hands down.

-Jim

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> I built a set of wheels for my Riv, with 36h Pacenti PL23 (the model the
> Brevet replaces).
>
> I usually run 40-45 psi in 650x38 Pari-Moto tires.  I'm #250 and I don't
> ride gentle, and I've definitely hopped some curbs and ridden in the dirt.
>
> No dents in ~3 years and ~4000 miles.
>
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 1:23 PM, lum gim fong 
> wrote:
>
>> 650b 130 or 135
>> Recreational road riding and commuting.
>> Would like to spin up faster and see if there will be less sluggishness
>> with a lighter set. Not that anything is wrong or sluggish about what I
>> have now (GB 650b 36 spoke). I just decided that from now on that anytime I
>> need to replace parts it will be with lighter stuff than is on there now,
>> but within the realm of my usefulness/durability needs. The Pacentis are
>> intriguing. Wonder if they can handle regular curb hopping with 42mm tires
>> at 40psi.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hmmm... It occurs to me I have a little used wheelset that has Pacenti PL23 
rims (v2, black label, 36h, 700c).  They are currently on an older Raleigh 
I built up but they could be repurposed (though the rear at least would 
need to be rebuilt with a different hub).  That said, I don't know if they 
are strong enough, or if the repurposing would or should happen.  Research 
to do I think...  The good news is they are the new-and-improved (but still 
discontinued) version, but are stronger than the v1 / red label versions. 
 I know though that some of the newer rims are most likely stronger and 
more capable.

Bob


On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:01:09 PM UTC-6, Jim Bronson wrote:...
>
> ...
> I recommend something with a welded joint for this duty.  The Pacenti 
> Brevet is a nice rim and the esthetic goes well with a Rivendell.  Weight 
> is 455 grams, so not bleeding edge lightweight, but pretty light, and 
> appropriate for the duty.  It's available in 28, 32, 36H.  Choose your 
> favorite roadie hubset to go with it for a fairly lightweight wheelset.
>
> Pacenti's site appears to be down, but here is Google's cached copy of it:
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?variant=910380531732
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Bill Lindsay]

I've had good results with the wider HED Belgium rims.  They aren't cheap, 
but they are lightish and strongish.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 11:34:33 AM UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> Anything I know about rims is probably rooted too far in the past to be 
> useful so I am curious about what people are doing and using.
>
> If one were to build up a relatively light and fast wheel set, rim brake, 
> 700c, for 700x30-47mm tires, ~195-200lb rider with maybe 10-12 pounds of 
> gear, something tough enough for unpaved trails and imperfect roads but not 
> necessarily singletrack...
>
> What rims/hubs/build specs (28 vs 32 vs 36h?, 2x/3x lacing?) would you use 
> or have used with success?  Just curious as the suggestion has come up a 
> lot (for lighter wheels) and my knowledge is limited as to what is now out 
> there, especially for rim-brake wheels.  I know too that narrower rims can 
> be used for wider tires but it would still be great to be within 
> recommended widths, at least close.
>
> Any help appreciated - and it might be useful to others as well.
>
> Bob Lovejoy
> Galesburg, IL 
>

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[RBW] Re: Lightest 650b wheelset that can take a 42mm tire?

[Nick Payne]

Or these, which are only 1100g:-) But you might need to sell a couple of 
body organs to purchase them: 
http://bike-ahead-composites.de/en/products/biturbo-rs/

On Wednesday, 17 January 2018 19:04:32 UTC+11, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> Depends if you're talking rim or disc brake. For disc, you can get NOX 
> Composite wheels at around 1400g for the complete wheelset: 
> http://www.noxcomposites.com/teocalli275. 
>
> On Wednesday, 17 January 2018 13:26:58 UTC+11, lum gim fong wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know what that is these days?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking opinions on 11 speed roadie setup

[Paul Y]

Hey Patrick, reread your post, I think you're right! Will try riding in a 
single gear and see how it feels again.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Seeking opinions on 11 speed roadie setup

[Paul Y]

All these opinions have helped me decide to stick with 2x8 gearing and just 
keep working on getting stronger. A good reminder that STI is a black box and 
is perfect until it's not... I plan to do audaxes so the bar end system should 
be considered a big plus, enough reason to forego the closer gearing.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Seeking opinions on 11 speed roadie setup

[Belopsky]

for those tempted, i am selling my shimano 105 11speed bits. see my for 
sale thread;


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[RBW] Re: BMC Road vs Roadini

[Dave Grossman]

Ended up ordering a Monster Cross

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[RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[eflayer]

These are nice. 23mm rims, decent hubs, not heavy:

http://www.bikemania.biz/velocity-a23-road-wheelset.html

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 11:34:33 AM UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> Anything I know about rims is probably rooted too far in the past to be 
> useful so I am curious about what people are doing and using.
>
> If one were to build up a relatively light and fast wheel set, rim brake, 
> 700c, for 700x30-47mm tires, ~195-200lb rider with maybe 10-12 pounds of 
> gear, something tough enough for unpaved trails and imperfect roads but not 
> necessarily singletrack...
>
> What rims/hubs/build specs (28 vs 32 vs 36h?, 2x/3x lacing?) would you use 
> or have used with success?  Just curious as the suggestion has come up a 
> lot (for lighter wheels) and my knowledge is limited as to what is now out 
> there, especially for rim-brake wheels.  I know too that narrower rims can 
> be used for wider tires but it would still be great to be within 
> recommended widths, at least close.
>
> Any help appreciated - and it might be useful to others as well.
>
> Bob Lovejoy
> Galesburg, IL 
>

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[RBW] Re: Light but strong wheels for a Sam or ???

[Jon BALER]

Velocity dyad rims

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