Re: [scots-l] Scots Music Quiz

[Wendy Galovich]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:16:47 + (GMT)
Nigel Gatherer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 2. What the connects the titles of these old Scottish reels: "John of
> Badenyon;" "Och a Chiallain;" "Cuir sa Chiste Mhoir Mi."

Oh oh oh... I know this one. :-) In the Cape Breton tradition they are commonly known 
as the wedding reels. Working from memory of John Campbell's ramblings during 
workshops... The first Cape Breton fiddle recording ever made was of the "wedding reel 
set" and was recorded by Angus Chisholm, Dan J. Campbell (John's father) and Angus 
Gillis. The record company paid them $100 Canadian and traveling expenses.

Marcia Palmater uses that recording as the opening theme for her weekly radio show, 
"Downeast Ceilidh".

Wendy
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[scots-l] Looking for some background information

[Wendy Galovich]

I have been asked to help gather some background information on a tune - "Inis Oirr" 
and its composer, Thomas Walsh. Can anyone help?

Thanks,
Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Dance in Watertown, MA (USA)

[Wendy Galovich]

Well, to get a good spot on the dance floor.. :-) 

On Monday 25 February 2002 16:38, John Chambers wrote:
> This must set some sort of record for early arrival at a concert.
>
> | Wendy, If you are there and get this, would you mind bringing both
> | fiddles? See you soon. I've parked down by the street.
> | Jeffrey
> | - Original Message -
> | From: "Wendy Galovich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> | To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> | Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:56 PM
> | Subject: [scots-l] Dance in Watertown, MA (USA)
> |
> | > Spring Dance
> | >
> | > Saturday, April 6, 2002
> | > 7:30 PM - 12:00 AM
> | >
> | > Canadian American Club
> | > 202 Arlington Street
> | > Watertown, MA USA
> | >
> | > Featuring Recording Artists:
> | > Jerry Holland, Violinist
> | > Doug MacPhee, Pianist
> | >   &
> | > John Campbell, Violinist
> | >
> | > Step Dancing by "Four On The Floor"
> | >
> | > Norman MacEachern, Prompter
> | > Also "Mabou Sets"
> | >
> | > Admission $12.00
> | > Complimentary Coffee, Tea & Goodies
> | >
> | > Sponsored by John Campbell
> | > (978) 897-7031
> | > Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
> |
> | subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> | http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
>
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[scots-l] Dance in Watertown, MA (USA)

[Wendy Galovich]

Spring Dance

Saturday, April 6, 2002
7:30 PM - 12:00 AM

Canadian American Club
202 Arlington Street
Watertown, MA USA

Featuring Recording Artists: 
Jerry Holland, Violinist
Doug MacPhee, Pianist
  &
John Campbell, Violinist

Step Dancing by "Four On The Floor"

Norman MacEachern, Prompter
Also "Mabou Sets"

Admission $12.00
Complimentary Coffee, Tea & Goodies 

Sponsored by John Campbell
(978) 897-7031
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Re: [scots-l] Name of pipe strathspey

[Wendy Galovich]

On Wednesday 06 February 2002 20:26, Toby Rider wrote:
> Does anyone know the name of the pipe strathspey that Brendan plays
> right after Dusky Meadow, but before the John Campbell reel in this set:
>
>
> http://barra.tullochgorm.com/mp3s/scottish/MabouRidgeSet.mp3
>
> I can't put a name to this tune! Thanks!
>
> Toby

Pretty Marion

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Tempi

[Wendy Galovich]

On Wednesday 06 February 2002 06:06, Nigel Gatherer wrote:
>
> STRATHSPEYS
> Jeffrey Friedman says they dance Strathspeys at 60. I'm not a dancer,
> but musically that seems VERY slow to me [3]. JMM states the limits as
> between 160 and 188. That upper limit seems fast to me, but nothing
> compared to the 202 reached in some Cape Breton recordings [2]. Now to
> Jimmy Shand and his Band; listening to a few Shand Strathspeys gives
> measurements of 130, 133 139, 139, 141 and 142; this seems right to me
> as a musician, but I can't speak for a dancer. Alastair Hardie's count
> of 126-138 seems to concur.

> [1] Flowers of Scottish Melody, 1935
> [2] ...as notated in 'Traditional Celtic Violin Music of Cape Breton'
> Kate Dunlay and David Greenberg
> [3] Jeffrey - are you sure it's not half-note measurements you mean?

Nigel - Jeff was referring to Scottish Country Dance strathspeys, not Cape 
Breton. For SCD aren't the strathspeys supposed to be counted two to the bar, 
rather than four to the bar as in Cape Breton? I *can* tell you that if you 
tap your foot for four downbeats the SCD teacher is almost certain to tell 
you you're playing it "wrong" because it's not what they need. Ian, Anselm?? 

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] Jerry Holland's new book

[Wendy Galovich]

On Monday 28 January 2002 23:29, Toby Rider wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can buy a copy of Jerry Holland's new book
> domestically? The last time I ordered from Paul Cranford, it took about
> 3 months for it to arrive. Thanks!
>
>
>
> Toby


Toby, why don't you contact Kate Spencer at Maple Leaf Music? That book is 
listed on her site - 

http://www.mapleleafmusic.com

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] Chisholm?

[Wendy Galovich]

On Tuesday 16 October 2001 12:16, Christopher Rennie wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Many thanks, Toby, for the info.  I am unfamiliar with
> Angus as a performer (obviously), but he is worth
> giving look on your recommendation.

A little story John Campbell related to his Ceilidh Trail students this past 
summer..

In 1935 John Campbell's father Dan J. Campbell, Angus Allan Gillis and Angus 
Chisholm traveled to Montreal to make the first recordings of Cape Breton 
fiddle music. Of course at that time, there was no way to correct recorded 
mistakes after the fact. 

Afterward, the three of them were discussing the recording session, and one 
of them commented that they probably had made some mistakes, and after a 
pause, Angus Chisholm replied, "Yeah, but there's not many that can find 
them." :-) 

There *was* a mistake on one set of two strathspeys and one reel - one of 
them didn't pick up quickly enough in changing from The Braes of Mar to the 
second strathspey. 

The record company paid them a whopping $100 + traveling expenses for the 
recording. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Tunes?

[Wendy Galovich]

Jack Daniel's Reel is in the second Jerry Holland Collection.


On Monday 27 August 2001 07:59, B&D Renaudin wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for these S Brechin and H Wrigley reels recorded by Seelyho :
>
> Sometimes it doesn't work/The Lucky Cap/The Potato tree/
>
> Also :
>
> Jack Daniel's (by JM Rankin)/Paddy's leather breeches/Wee Todd (trad)
>
> Douglas Adam's fancy/The fastest Gasman/The Video Kid (D Pincock)
>
> Do you know where to find them (Abc, tunebook, etc... ?)
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Dominique Renaudin
> http://perso.club-internet.fr/d140557/index.html
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Re: [scots-l] Tuning and Electronic Tuners

[Wendy Galovich]

On Thursday 02 August 2001 00:09, you wrote:
>
> The worst culprits seem to be fiddlers, who often have  the  attitude
> "Damded  if I'll tune to an accordion".  (Since I'm also a fiddler, I
> can get away with such an observation.  ;-)

Ha ha.. I guess I should have added, if I'm playing in a group I do tune my A 
to everyone else's and work from there. :-) 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Tuning and Electronic Tuners

[Wendy Galovich]

On Wednesday 01 August 2001 20:38, you wrote:
> >An electronic tuner is measuring the fundamental but
> >what your ear is "measuring", hearing,  on a "note" on an acoustic
> >instrument is much more.
>
> I prefer a tuning fork (I almost wrote pitch fork by mistake!).  Does the
> ringing of the fork include the other harmonics etc. and might that be why
> I like it better?  I think I also like it because I amplify it right on my
> fiddle bridge so it seems like my own instrument making the sound.  At a
> session, when I can't hear a pitch fork, I just tune to what seems to be
> the average A.
>
> - Kate

Hmm.. I was wondering about the harmonics in that situation too. I think the 
ringing fork actually *does* cause sympathetic vibrations from the A string 
when the frequencies (or pitches, whichever it is depending on what the fork 
is generating) match. When I tune using the tuning fork, the ringing gets 
noticeably louder when the string's in tune. 

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] Tuning and Electronic Tuners

[Wendy Galovich]

On Wednesday 01 August 2001 13:46, you wrote:
> In an e-mail whose subject was "What makes a style Scottish?"
>
> Nigel Gatherer wrote:
> I was also fascinated by Alexander's statement: "The ear's perception
> of a note can vary so greatly that the literature uses two terms;
> "frequency"...and "pitch"...and the two can vary by as much as a whole
> tone..." I often disagree with what an electric tuner says is in tune
> and make minor adjustments to suit my ear. I wonder if this is an
> illustration of that difference?
>
> My comment:
> I have no doubt whatsoever that that is what is happening. I don't claim
> to be an expert in the workings of electronic tuners but I think they
> are such a menace that they should be barred from use. This is what I
> think is happening. An electronic tuner is measuring the fundamental but
> what your ear is "measuring", hearing,  on a "note" on an acoustic
> instrument is much more.  What your ear "hears" is a composite of the
> fundamental and as many as twenty harmonics which the ear perceives as a
> single "tone". The number of, and the relative intensity [loudness] of
> the harmonics influences the ear's perception of the fundamental, and in
> making music perception is reality.

Might this variation in the harmonics also explain another phenomenon: two 
instruments are tuned using the same electronic tuner, and when checked 
against that, appear that they're in tune with each other, and each one 
sounds in tune by itself, but.. when played together, they sound *out of 
tune* with each other. Could the differences in the harmonics of individual 
instruments create that effect, if the tuner is measuring the fundamental? 

I'm not a big fan of electronic tuners either - my favorite tuning "device" 
is a tuning fork.. no batteries to run down, and no annoying little needle 
jumping around alternately indicating both sharp and flat on the same string. 

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] What makes a style "Scottish?"

[Wendy Galovich]

On Wednesday 11 July 2001 15:40, you wrote:
>  Wendy Galovich wrote:

> Please don't be offended but I have concluded that you haven't read or
> do not understand the two quotes which I included in my last e-mail.

Um.. Actually I did read and understand them, and my own conclusion is that 
the main problem here is one of semantics and context.. more on that below.


> The last line in the Turtis quote bears repeating here, "
> I am concerned that we may be boring others on the list with this
> discussion. If you wish to communicat further perhaps we snould do it
> off list.

Not yet. I have a question for you that I would like to ask in the forum of 
the list, because I think it would benefit many of us, if you would be so 
kind as to answer it; it has to do with the semantics issue, and revolves 
around the definitions of the following terms: 

- tempered scale

- alternate scale 

I am not disputing exact scientific/musical definition of the tempered scale 
(which is not new information to me or to most of the rest of the list), nor 
am I challenging your comments about "alternate scales" per se. But the 
practical reality here is that English language is such that we often we find 
ourselves having to use it in an imprecise way, not out of ignorance but 
simply because the language lacks a specific word or short phrase to 
precisely describe the particular concept we're trying to express. 

We're in the midst of just such a situation, where the above terms end up 
getting used, with the intent of a slightly different definition, as follows: 

1) tempered scale: a scale structure in which the individual pitch intervals 
are *approximately* 1.059, but with fine adjustments to correct each note so 
that it is in tune, in relation to its neighboring notes. (This is the 
concept I had in mind when I said that the CT and MA fiddlers tend to stick 
to the "tempered scale". 

2) alternate scale: a scale in which the pitch of one or more of its notes 
deviates from the tempered scale as described in 1). 

Both of the above are *rough* "working definitions", if you will, employed 
for the sake of being able to discuss the concepts described without having 
to use the entire description each time; I'm well aware of what you've 
already said about each. In truth I've seen quite a few occasions on a number 
of lists where pitch intervals have been discussed using that framework, by 
participants who were well aware of the scientific and musical theory behind 
them, and understood that they were using the terms in a very loosely-defined 
way, but did so because they *needed* an agreed-upon parlance for discussing 
the *concepts* in 1) and 2). 

So what we really need, if we shouldn't be using those particular terms to 
describe those concepts, is a better set of terms. I am personally not aware 
of any terms that fit this particular need, but it's pretty clear to me that 
we have to do that before any productive discussion of the concepts can 
occur. Can you help with that? 

Thanks, 
Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] What makes a style "Scottish?"

[Wendy Galovich]

On Tuesday 10 July 2001 13:54, you wrote:
> Wendy Galovich wrote:
> This is obvious if you're going to break the tempered scale down to that
> degree.
>
> Comment:
> 1. What is obvious?

..U.. the statements you made in the paragraph to which I was responding: 
that in a literal sense it is impossible to play *exactly* in, or tune an 
instrument *exactly* to, equal temperament, because we aren't even capable of 
hearing the minute differences in pitch to enable us to do that. At least 
that is what I understood you to be saying, but if not, please correct me. 

> 2. I didn't break anything down. The ratio 1.059 is by definition the
> interval of a semitone in the equal tempered scale. More about this
> later.

Um.. First, if you're going to quote me, I'd very much appreciate if 
you'd do me the courtesy of including enough of the quote so that what I 
originally said is clear. Maybe you misunderstood the context I was referring 
to.. was that why you omitted the rest of the paragraph when you quoted me 
above? Anyway, for clarity's sake, here it is again, this time in its 
entirety. Especially pertinent to the point I was trying to make is the last 
sentence:

"This is obvious if you're going to break the tempered scale down to that 
degree, but it doesn't address the context of my original comment, which was 
a response to your assertion about fiddlers playing, as you said, "out of 
tune". From the perspective of common sense it's clear that in that context  
we must necessarily speak of tempered or alternate scales as far as they are 
discernible *by the human ear*." 

When I said "break the tempered scale down to that degree", I wasn't being 
*literal*, but simply merely pointing out that the level of precision you're 
referring to is overkill in a discussion that was originally about using 
alternate scales in one's playing. 

However, that doesn't mean it isn't useful information. I did very much enjoy 
the refresher on string properties and equal temperament.. thank you for 
posting that! 

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] What makes a style "Scottish?"

[Wendy Galovich]

On Tuesday 10 July 2001 00:26, you wrote:
>
> My comment:
> It does turn up in other fiddle traditions.
> The Connecticut and Massachusetts fiddlers cannot be playing,as you say,
> in the tempered scale because that is impossible on the fiddle. That
> would require each ascending note in the chromatic scale to be be
> exactly higher in pitch over the preceeding note by the ratio 1.059 and
> larger intervals to be exact arithmetic multiplies of this ratio. The
> human ear cannot do this. That is why a piano tuner has to achieve
> this objective by listening to the interplay between repeated  fifths
> and fourths. Even employing this method and with infinitely more time
> than a fiddler has to play a single note, it has been demonstrated that
> the best piano tuners deviate somewhat from the ratio.

This is obvious if you're going to break the tempered scale down to that 
degree, but it doesn't address the context of my original comment, which was 
a response to your assertion about fiddlers playing, as you said, "out of 
tune". From the perspective of common sense it's clear that in that context 
we must necessarily speak of tempered or alternate scales as far as they are 
discernible *by the human ear*.

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] What makes a style "Scottish?"

[Wendy Galovich]

On Monday 09 July 2001 14:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Re "When learning a reel in A major with a fiddler"
>
>  Many violinists/fiddlers have a common problem. There is a tendency to
> play certain notes out of tune, for example C#'s on the A and G strings;
> G#'s on the E and D strings are frequently played flat to correct pitch,
> C and  G [naturals] on the A and E strings are played sharp,etc. This is
> due to the combination of those notes being physically difficult to
> execute in the early stages of learning to play the instrument and
> subsequent inattention to the need to listen with the consummate
> attention required to play precisely in tune.

I dunno.. in all honesty I find this assertion baffling. It goes without 
saying, that beginner fiddlers often miss the pitch they're aiming for. But I 
didn't think this thread was about beginners. And it seems to me that if 
playing "out of tune" as you describe it (and I'm putting it in quotes 
because I don't agree that the altered pitches in question are out of tune), 
was a universal *fiddler* problem, it would turn up with *all* fiddlers, 
regardless of the style being played. In other words it would be just as 
prevalent among mature fiddlers specializing in bluegrass, contra etc. etc. 
etc. (insert whatever fiddle tradition you like here), but it isn't. The 
bluegrass and contra fiddlers around here in Connecticut and Massachusetts 
stick to the tempered scale. So I can't concur that it's sloppy fiddling, at 
least not among seasoned players. 

There is a recording floating around, of Mary MacDonald playing MacLean's 
Farewell to Oban, where she is hitting the C's and G's *exactly* between the 
sharp and natural position (I tried playing along with this a few times 
because I wanted to be sure I understood what I was hearing), and her tempo 
is moderate enough that I could only assume she was hitting those pitches 
deliberately. That recording happens to be one of the pipey-est pieces of 
fiddling I've ever heard, bar none. 

I would add from personal experience that although there are some notes I 
find hard to reach, C# and G# on the A and E strings aren't among them. I'm 
much more likely to miss the ones that require either a stretch or a tightly 
curled finger (F natural or C on the A string, for example.)

It's interesting that you should mention listening as a criteria. On that I 
couldn't agree more. It is something that I devote a great deal of time to, 
and in fact it was only after 1000's of hours of listening to recordings of 
Cape Breton fiddlers, particularly those of the last generation, that those 
neutral notes started to surface in my playing.. :-) 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Jack or other net experts: help!

[Wendy Galovich]

On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, David Kilpatrick wrote:
> 
> This is an appeal to anyone with internet know-how.
> 
> In the last few days, blank subjectless message from many different people whose 
>email
> addresses start 'david@' have been arriving. Now I find that other people (same 
>criterion)
> have been getting blank subjectless message from me. These originate at times when my
> computer is not connected, so it is not a virus on my system, and presumably not a 
>virus
> on theirs.
> 
> A few weeks ago a spambot mailed a huge list - any address beginning 'david@' and I 
>notice
> the same spambot also mailed just about every other possible name or address 
>configuration.
> 
> Anyone have any idea how a system, somewhere, can be sending blank emails 'to and 
>from'
> addresses on a list which it holds, and why on earth it would do so? And how it can 
>be
> stopped, as the messages seem to come from individuals but do not?
> 
> I find it worrying that messages - even blanks - can be sent which appear to 
>originate
> from me. 


Disable Javascript in your mail client if you're using one that
will run it. I recently came across an article that discussed
vulnerabilities inherent in having Javascript running in your email. For
example it is possible for someone to send you a message containing some
script (which you don't see) that instructs your mailer to surreptiously
send them a copy if you forward that message to anyone else. 
The article mentioned Netscape, Outlook and Outlook Express as the
primary targets for this kind of abuse, but there may be others. There are
some real privacy-protection advantages to using a mail client that won't
run scripts. 
Does anyone know if the Outlook family of mailers can be abused in
the same way with VBScript? If they can, I'd avoid those mailers
altogether, since M$ apparently doesn't see the need to provide you with
any way of disabling VBScript. 

Wendy


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Re: [scots-l] Birlin'

[Wendy Galovich]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, SUZANNE MACDONALD wrote:

> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:29:25 -0400
> From: SUZANNE MACDONALD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [scots-l] Birlin'
> 
> Wendy Galovich wrote:
> 
> However it seems to me that at the dances and concerts I've been
> to on the island, and on the recordings I have, there is a sampling of
> Skinner tunes, but the Gows', the Lowes', Marshall's and MacIntosh's
> to name a few of the older composers. Among the more recent composers
> whose tunes I've frequently heard played in those venues are Dan R.,
> John
> Campbell, Donald Angus, Kinnon and Joey Beaton, Jerry Holland, Brenda
> Stubbert.. the list goes on.
> However if I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like
> you're
> saying that there are more Skinner tunes in the Cape Breton repertoire
> than of any of the composers I just named off. That puzzles because it
> doesn't seem to line up with what little experience I've had of the
> tradition. Could you please explain further?
> 
> The Gows published about 300 tunes [infamous for plagiarizing some of
> them] , Marshall about 250, Skinner about 600, Lowes collection is
> mostly traditional compositions. Skinner was not only the most prolific
> composer but he and  Marshall are in a class by themselves. Winston
> Fitzgerald was, in the view of many,  Cape Breton's most influential
> fiddler.  If you check "Winston Fitzgerald, A Collection of Fiddle
> Tunes", edited by Paul Cranford, you will find that Winston's most
> popular composers were; Skinner, Henderson [ J. Murdock] Dan R. Mac
> Donald and Marshall in that order with Skinner having more tunes than
> all the others combined. Many of the local composes you list have added
> significantly to the repertoire. As you point out most of these are of
> relatively recent vintage.


Okay, if you're speaking from a "Winston perspective" I can
understand your comments better. I do have the book you mention and a
number of his recordings. And there is no denying the impact Winston's
playing has had on the present generation, and some of their choices of
tunes. 
My question still isn't quite cleared up, however, because when I
asked it I wasn't thinking of just one player (however influential), but
all of the Cape Breton fiddlers I've been fortunate enough to hear either
in person or on recordings. Also the sheer number of tunes by each
composer doesn't really answer the question of how many of them actually
get played, how often, and in what venues. 
The other unanswered piece of the question, which I didn't spell
out (my fault!), is where do Skinner's compositions fit into Cape Breton
step dance tradition - specifically the strathspeys. 
The reason I'm still questioning this is that while I can think of
quite a few "listening strathspeys" by Skinner, I can only come up with
only one that is sometimes associated with him that is commonly played
for step dancers - Devil in the Kitchen - but The Scottish Violinist
credits a W.M. Ross for the composition, and Skinner for the fiddle
arrangement. 
So perhaps looking at it from that viewpoint is my particular
"tunnel vision".. but the step dancing strathspey stands out in such sharp
relief for me as an important, distinctive part of the Cape Breton musical
tradition that I still don't see Skinner as a significant influence on
*that* part of it. Fair enough? 

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] Birlin'

[Wendy Galovich]

On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, SUZANNE MACDONALD wrote:

> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:33:01 -0400
> From: SUZANNE MACDONALD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [scots-l] Birlin'
> 
> Toby Ryder wrote:
> 
> 
> Is that surprising? I find it to be not in the least bit
> surprising.
> Skinner did alot of things with his playing that were very "classical"
> in nature.
> 
> For me it is surprising. Skinner was hardly unfamiliar with the
> tradition. I find that the "classical" label is placed on Skinner too
> frequently and without foundation and always with a negative
> connotation. I also fnd it odd that this view is held by many people in
> Cape Breton and yet they are playing more of his tunes than anybody
> else's.
> 
> Alexander

With all due respect, Alexander, this last stetement completely
baffles me, and for the sake of learning I'd really appreciate some
clarification. 
Yes, there is a common body of Skinner's tunes floating around in
the Cape Breton repertoire - airs, reels, and some moderate and slow
strathspeys - and of course the variations he composed for
Tullochgorm. I'm aware of those. 
However it seems to me that at the dances and concerts I've been
to on the island, and on the recordings I have, there is a sampling of
Skinner tunes, but the Gows', the Lowes', Marshall's and MacIntosh's 
to name a few of the older composers. Among the more recent composers
whose tunes I've frequently heard played in those venues are Dan R., John
Campbell, Donald Angus, Kinnon and Joey Beaton, Jerry Holland, Brenda
Stubbert.. the list goes on. 
However if I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like you're
saying that there are more Skinner tunes in the Cape Breton repertoire
than of any of the composers I just named off. That puzzles because it
doesn't seem to line up with what little experience I've had of the
tradition. Could you please explain further? 

Thanks,
Wendy

P.S. and what about that one composer named "Traditional"? I always
thought the biggest chunk of the CB repertoire were his tunes.. :-) 

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Re: [scots-l] Nigel's depressed and so am I

[Wendy Galovich]

Derek Hoy wrote:
> 

> ...But
> younger musicians tend towards the sexier, flash stuff- same with many of the
> young Irish/Canadian bands that we get here.  And sometimes I don't think they
> realise where tunes are from- they just play what they like.

I had to laugh as I read this because it reminded me of what happened
in the fiddle workshops I took on Cape Breton two summers ago. There
were several advanced students who attended that week, who had
apparently learned Amy Cann's "Catharsis" before coming to the
workshops. I'm guessing that one of the reasons they learned that was
that Natalie MacMaster recorded it on her "No Boundaries" CD. She tried
out a number of tunes from other traditions on that recording, and IIRC,
Amy Cann is from Vermont or New Hampshire.  
Anyway, there seemed to be an unspoken consensus among that group of
students that "Cartharsis" was some really hot new Cape Breton tune, and
often when there was a break, they'd start playing it.. and go on and on
for 15-20 minutes at a time. By the end of the week, I *really* hated
that tune - and I haven't recovered yet! In spite of the fact that
Natalie had the good taste to limit it to 2-1/2 minutes, I still skip
that track when I listen to that CD. :-) 
Fortunately when I went back this past summer, due to the mix of
teachers and students, the focus was much more on older, traditional
tunes. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Shetland geetarr

[Wendy Galovich]

Jack Campin wrote:
> 
> >Yes, after all these descriptions of the so-called Shetland guitar style, I
> >was wondering if there was any connection with the CB piano school. They do
> >sound similar.
> 
> ???  The CB piano stuff is simple harmonies but very complicated rhythms
> and textural effects: the "Shetland" guitar stuff is complicated harmonies
> but simple rhythms.  Where's the resemblance?

I was wondering about that too. I can't say I know anything about
Shetland guitar, but based on the recent discussion about its
relationship to jazz, using augmented chords, etc., it sounds quite far
removed from Cape Breton piano style. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Birlin'

[Wendy Galovich]

At 11:19 PM 1/14/2001 -0600, Kate Dunlay or David Greenberg wrote:
>
>I would guess it's because they prefer to have a downbow happening on the
>beat (think how in "Brenda Stubbert's Reel" the cuts strongly start out so
>many measures), which makes for stronger dance music.  Then after that it
>becomes a habit.  BTW cuts do happen on offbeats in reels such as "Molly
>Rankin's," so it would be interesting to take a survey of how fiddlers bow
>that one.
>
>- Kate D.

Well, in general where offbeat cuts turn up.. I usually single-bow 
the pair of eighth notes before the cut down-up, and bow the cut down-up-
down. If the cut is followed by a pair of eighth notes, I either connect 
the first eighth note into the last note of the cut as a downbowed loop 
(which I prefer), or simply loop the two following eighth notes together 
on an upbow, so that the next downbeat falls on a downbow. 

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] Birlin'

[Wendy Galovich]

At 07:25 PM 1/13/2001 -0500, Jeri Corlew wrote:
>
>I was mostly joking about the "every now and then" bit, but I'm a long way
>from having mastered the technique.  I figure if it feels right, I simply
>need more practice.  This may sound weird, but I found it helped me to turn
>my hand so the movement was more up and down than sideways.  (I noticed
>Harvey Tolman plays like that, and decided to try it.)  

It's not weird - he uses the old traditional Cape Breton way of 
holding the fiddle with the top nearly vertical and the instrument much 
more out in front of him than the standard classical hold, and that en-
ables him to bow up and down rather than horizontally across the strings. 
It also neatly facilitates the way he uses his wrist. Many Cape Breton 
fiddlers play that way - John Campbell, Alex Francis MacKay, David Green-
berg, to mention just a few. 
David and Harvey have got the most fluid wrists I've ever seen, 
and in spite of his huge hands, John Campbell is almost delicate in the 
way he handles the bow. I haven't seen Alex Francis play (maybe Toby 
can tell us about that), but judging from the broad variations in sound 
that he is able to draw from the instrument, I'd have to guess that it's 
similar to the others. 

I don't play with
>my hand that way most of the time, but it did help to learn the movement
>needed.

Ah, we differ a bit there - for me adopting that bow hold was an 
end in itself. I made a point of learning it after getting some good 
advice, and seeing it used so effectively by many CB fiddlers. What I've 
found is that it really does make it easier to do the type of bowing 
called for in CB fiddling, with good deal less wear and tear on a number 
of joints that remind me in no uncertain terms when I batter them too 
much. 
BTW Jeri, are you in the New England area? (I'm in CT.) 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Birlin'

[Wendy Galovich]

At 09:40 PM 1/11/2001 -0500, Keith W. Dunn wrote:
>Is anyone on the list familiar with a fiddle ornament called a "birlin'
>"?
>I read a short synopsis of how it's done in the book "Caledonian
>Companion" by Alasdair Hardie but it was only a short explanation.  It's
>used in the tune "James Hardie" by J. Scott Skinner.  To me, it always
>seems to be easier to pick things like this up while being taught in
>person, however, all I have is the book.  If anyone could explain in
>detail just how this ornament is performed, maybe I could get the hang of
>it.  
>I've been searching for quiet a while for a way to produce what I think
>this ornament is supposed to sound like.  The book suggests playing it
>near the tip of the bow with a quick down-up-down bow with a slightly
>tightened forearm.  Does this sound familiar to anyone?  Does anyone do
>this differently?

It's similar to a cut in Cape Breton fiddling, but the timing 
and accent is different. I think Alasdair Fraser's recording, The 
Driven Bow, has some good representations of the Northeastern Scot-
tish approach described in the Hardie book. 
Playing it at the tip of the bow and the slightly tightened 
forearm is vastly different from what I strive for in Cape Breton 
fiddling though. I'd use the center of the bow, or close to it, and 
strive to keep the whole bowing arm and wrist as loose as relaxed 
as possible, and try to generate the down-up-down motion of the bow 
with the wrist and fingers. For the effect I'm after - the three 
notes ringing clearly even at speed - relaxation seems to be the 
key. I find it also helps to bring out that effect if I keep the 
downbow moving throughout the cut. If you stop the downbow or even 
just slow it down too much, it's much more likely to crunch the 
notes. 

>I also wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of ornaments used in
>scottish fiddling.  And if so...descriptions and directions as to how
>they are performed.

The best compilation I know of is in Kate Dunlay and David Greenberg's 
book, Traditional Celtic Violin Music of Cape Breton, aka The DunGreen 
Collection. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Andy Dejarlis Jig

[Wendy Galovich]

At 10:18 AM 1/7/2001 -0500, Ian Adkins wrote:
>Somebody here got that dang-ol' Seven Dwarves virus...

Yeah.. I've received it twice so far and McAfee squashed it both times. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] unsubscribe

[Wendy Galovich]

Oh my, I want one of those, if you do - one tailored to explain, 
in Ian's inimitable style, that the application I work on has to be 
INSTALLED in order to be accessed and used. :-) 

Wendy


At 10:51 AM 11/1/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>   Either that or I should write a shell script called the "Ian bot".
>It takes preselected lallans quotes and emails them to anyone who
>questions to which the answers are clearly obvious :-)
>
>
>
>On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, Steve Wyrick wrote:
>
>> Ian J. L. Adkins wrote:
>> 
>> > << Hello, please unsubscribe me temporarily from the list. Thanks >>
>> > 
>> > Dae ye see whit's screivet doon belaw?  Unner ma signature?  Gae oan
an tak
>> > a luik.  See whit it is?  Aye, instructions.  Noo DAE IT YERSEL!!!
>> > 
>> > Sigh.  They nivver lairn.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > --Ian
>> 
>> Ian, your rants always make my day!  I think I'll have to start sending in
>> the occasional "unsubscribe" request myself so I can see more of these
>> postings :^) -Steve
>> -- 
>> Steve Wyrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- Concord, CA
>> 
>> Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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>> 
>
>Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To
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Re: [scots-l] Local Sessions.

[Wendy Galovich]

At 06:39 AM 10/11/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Jeff (suffering the recent slings of an egomaniacle pompous bossy fiddler)
>Friedman

Ah, I know the one you mean.. one of our *local* experts :-)

Wendy

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Re: [scots-l] Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:41:37 -0600

[Wendy Galovich]

At 11:16 AM 10/10/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Thank you so much to everyone who was willing to offer information on
birls (cuts or triplets) and help me as I muddle along with my
self-tutoring!  I'm really enjoying "Crossing the Minch" and need to begin
a search on some compatible tunes for a set... any suggestions?
>  
>I love this newsgroup and find you all to be fun, funny, helpful and kind.
 Thank you!
>  
>Dianne


Actually your question about that tune the other day got me started 
listening to both Winston's and Bill Lamey's recordings of it. I think 
for the most part they both played the cuts on downbows, which I do too. 
However I'm not quite sure what I'm hearing in the fourth turn. 
How about playing The Farmer's Daughter after McNabb's? 

Wendy

X:1
T:The Farmer's Daughter
M:4/4
L:1/8
C:Scottish Traditional
R:Reel
K:D
B|d2 de f2 ef|dedB d/d/d AB|d2 de f2 ea|cAeA cAAB|
d2 de f2 ef|dedB d/d/d dg|fgag f2 ef|A/A/A eA cAA:|
c|d2 f2 B/B/B fB|cBfB cBBc|d2 eA A/A/A eA|cAeA cAAc|
d2 f2 B/B/B fB|cBfB cBBc|d2 ag f2 ef|A/A/A eA cAA:|
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Re: [scots-l] Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:31:01 -0600

[Wendy Galovich]

At 07:26 PM 10/6/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm seeking advice from fiddlers:  I've heard that all "cuts" should begin
on a down bow.  Is that good advice and is it always true?  When inserting
a cut I do seem to think it is easiest to begin on a down bow.  However...
I'm playing around with bowings in the tune 'Crossing the Minch' (aka
'McNabb's Hornpipe') and seem to think that it's easiest to slur the two
eighth notes prior to the cut on a down bow (to give emphasis to the first
note and soften the tune a bit) and then begin the cut on an up bow.  It
seems to work and I'm getting good speed on it.  Any bowing advice from
anyone familiar with this tune?
>  
>Dianne Anderson
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Since I just caught up on this, and will come back to it later 
when I'm not rushing out the door, let me first ask, what style do you 
play? There are going to be *some* differences (as you've already seen) 
depending on the answer to that question. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] string materials

[Wendy Galovich]

At 05:26 PM 9/27/2000 +0100, "David Kilpatrick" wrote:
>>> We're not sure about the pitch of voices in the past; one of your problems
>>> with singing anything from 18th c Scottish MS is that the intended
pitch is
>>> at least one tone, maybe 1.5 tones, lower than the notation makes it
appear,
>>> due to the change in concert pitch to our higher 440=A tuning.
>>
>> The commonest pitch of the period was A=415 and there are thousands of
>> surviving woodwind instruments at that pitch.  A tone down was far less
>> common; a few organs in continental Europe were built a tone above modern
>> pitch.  I don't think anything as low as A=400 was found anywhere except
>> in France or after 1700.
>>
>> David Greenberg's A=415 fiddle sounds very convincing for music of this
>> period.
>
>Jack, if the pitch change was relatively small - a semitone or a touch more
>- why are we told that so many fiddles had to be rebuilt entirely to take
>the increased tension of the 'new' orchestral pitch in the early 1800s? I
>thought the general shift between 1750 and 1830 was about 1.25 tones. 

I'm going to jump in here and try to answer this at least in part. 
There were actually *two* significant changes that happened, I believe, 
close to the same time. One certainly was a change in pitch. But some other 
changes to the design of the instrument were introduced in order to make 
it *louder*, to accommodate larger ensembles and larger concert halls. 
The most significant change was to increase the string length from 
the nut to the bridge. For this purpose, the bridge height was raised to 
where it is on the modern violin. The other change that was apparently 
made was to the length of the neck. As an example, one of the last times 
my husband and I were at our luthier's, he also showed us a couple of very 
old instruments that he thought had been reconstructed during that time; 
on both of those instruments, the scrolls had been spliced onto the necks, 
rather than the necks and scrolls being all one piece, which is what you 
normally see. His assessment was that the necks had been replaced in order 
to lengthen them slightly. 
Increasing the length of the strings alone would have increased the 
tension simply to maintain the same pitch, and thus would have required 
structural changes in the instrument to support it. I had an opportunity 
this summer to get a good look at David Greenberg's baroque violin, and 
there is a *noticeable* difference in the size of the bass bar and in the 
thickness of both the soundpost and the bridge, compared to a modern violin 
(they are smaller on the baroque violin.) I suspect that the top and back 
may be carved a bit thinner too, but maybe David could tell us that. :-) 
The effect of those differences in structure is that the baroque 
violin doesn't produce quite the volume that the modern violin does, but 
its sound is incredibly powerful; it has a fantastic dynamic range and 
responds to a much lighter touch. 
You have to keep in mind that a well-made violin of any type already 
treads a fine line between having the maximum amount of flexibility in 
the top and back, to allow them to vibrate as freely as possible, and being 
sturdy enough to withstand both the stresses of that vibration and the ten-
sion of the strings. So, if it is well-designed for a specific setup, it 
won't take much of an increase in string tension to damage it. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] music store frustration

[Wendy Galovich]

At 06:29 PM 9/14/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>
>Wood type is crucial for the sound and strength of a clarsach. It has to
be a 
>hard wood. My harps (that aren't broken) are made out of Scottish Sycamore 
>and Maine Beech and Maple. 

Maine Beech.. that wouldn't have been out of Jay Witcher's shop, 
by any chance? 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] new subscription flood?

[Wendy Galovich]

At 07:58 PM 9/12/2000 -0400, Jeff Friedman wrote:
>I suspect the term aggresive arrogance could be used to define attitude. His
>playing is on the level of Mssr Greenberg, in that I mean that there is a
>story being told in every bowstroke, and chapters being "yarned" in every
>tune.

David - I didn't put anyone up to this.. really!! :-)

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] new subscription flood?

[Wendy Galovich]

At 11:43 AM 9/12/2000 -0700, "Toby A. Rider wrote:
>
>
>On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Jeffrey Friedman wrote:
>
>> Regarding the your comments on the Wedding Reels: I've just encountered a
>> couple of CD's by a fiddler named John Campbell. I guess you might say he
>> has an impressive style. I'm being very understated here. I have to ask a
>> difficult question, as your "word" is not one I've encountered regarding
>> this type of music. Define "Attitude", please. I think I can hear it, but
>> can't quite verbalize it.
>> Thanks, Jeff
>
>
>   Ha..ha..ha.. When you finally get a chance to talk to John
>Campbell, you will understand what I mean by "attitude". I'm using
>"attitude" as a positive adjective here. John Campbell is a lion of a man. 
>   I think his style of playing very well reflects some elements of his 
>personality. Granted I don't know him very well, Wendy knows him better
then I
>do. Maybe she can elaborate.
>   I think his playing is very straight-forward, intense and
>powerful, yet intricate in the way that he's constantly changing subtle
things.

I think you hit a very important point there. He does keep you 
guessing somewhat, which in my [limited] experience does seem in keeping 
with his personality. 
Over the past year and a half I've been to two individual workshops 
with him in New Hampshire, and then the week at Ceilidh Trail, a month ago. 
I wrote to him once after the first workshop, and had spoken with him on 
phone several times between that and the second workshop, and after the 
second one he still didn't remember who I was.. 
But when I arrived at Ceilidh Trail on the first morning, my friend 
Kate greeted me by telling me that two people had been asking "where's 
Wendy?" - and that one of them was John Campbell. Hmm.. :-) 
And you never quite know what he's going to spring on you in the 
workshops either. I started out that week with the beginner group, and 
ended up switching to the intermediates on the third day. For the inter-
mediates, John's class was the first one of the day. Well, halfway through 
the class, in the midst of some discussion, he stopped, looked across the 
room straight at me and said "Play something." There was no getting out of 
that one..:-) If I remember correctly I stumbled through Jessie Smith. 
Later I found out he'd been doing that with each of the each the interme-
diate students. But he definitely does keep you on toes and guessing as to 
what's coming next!

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Old Time Wedding Reels

[Wendy Galovich]

At 11:24 AM 9/12/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>nigel asked:
>> The reason for my choosing this setting is its simplicity, but I wonder
>> whether I should be more true to, say, the Buddy MacMaster version. I'm
>> also considering including the whole set of Old Time Wedding Reels, #1, #2
>> and #3 ("John of Badenyon", "Hamish the Carpenter" and "Put Me In the Big
>> Chest") - any opinions?
>
>That's a bit different to the settings I've heard.  Mairi Campbell could
point 
>you at a more Cape Breton version?
>
>Derek

For whatever reason I always tend to think of John Campbell's 
recording of that set as the "definitive" Cape Breton version.. Not 
that there aren't other good ones, of course. 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] music store frustration

[Wendy Galovich]

At 12:44 PM 9/8/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>   Has anyone on here ever bought an instrument from a music store,
>then after a couple of years you feel like you've outgrown it's sound, so
>you go back to the same place and try to use the first instrument you
>got from them in a partial trade up for a better instrument? 
>   I've bought two violins from this one particular store and the
>last time I was there, they were acting like they didn't want to consider
>working a deal out with me, regardless of the terms. Needless to say, that
>is the last time I am ever going there. 
>   Has anyone else run into this, or other luthier horror stories?
>
>
>
>Le Meas,
>
>Toby

There was one time only a couple of months after I'd started 
playing that I went to a small music store one town away from us. I 
was looking for a set of steel strings and told the shop owner that.. 
and he then loftily "informed" me that *all* violin strings were 
steel (he had lots of Super Sensitives in stock!) 
I was certainly a beginner at the time, but I wasn't *that* 
green. I never went back there. I don't think he was a luthier though - 
at least I hope not. :-) 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Tullochgorum

[Wendy Galovich]

At 10:12 AM 7/24/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>   Possibly the best performance of Tullochgorm I've ever heard is on
>a hometape of Angus Chisholm in 1956. I used to have that up on my
>website. If I have enough response I might consider putting it back up
>there.
>
>
>
>Toby


Please? :-) 

Wendy
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Re: [scots-l] Niel Gow

[Wendy Galovich]

At 11:26 PM 7/8/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of any recordings that have" Caledonia's wail for Niel Gow,
>her favourite minstrel", on it.  Thanks

It's on the recently-released Bill Lamey CD "Full Circle" - track 8. 
The CD is on Rounder Records, 82161-7032-2. 

Wendy
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