[Simh] vde networking

[Will Senn]

I'm trying to use vde on mac. I built it from source and built simh to 
include vde support. When I follow simh's 0readme-ethernet.txt:


sudo vde_switch -s /tmp/switch1 -tap tap0 -m 666
sudo ifconfig tap0 192.168.6.1 netmask 255.255.255.0 up

there are no complaints, and when I run the simulator:

sim> attach xq vde:/tmp/switch1  #simulator uses IP address 192.168.6.2

again, no complaints, but then, in 211bsd, I don't get ping replies from 
anything other than the ip assigned to the guest in 211bsd.


This isn't unexpected (nothing other than success would surprise me at 
this point), but it does raise several questions (maybe you're shocked):


1. in the example above, is 192.168.6.1 referring to any exisitng ip 
address in the real network, e.g. the host's ip address?

2. is 192.168.6.2 automatically assigned to the simulator?
3. in the virtual guest (211bsd) what does the default gateway need to 
refer to?

4. in the guest, what does the broadcast address need to refer to?
5. in the guest, what does the ip address need to be set to?

In my fictitious networld, here's the host's configuration:

Host - macbook
IP Address 192.168.2.13
Gateway 192.168.2.1
Broadcast 192.168.2.255

All I think I am trying to do is get the guest to ping yahoo.com. My 
understanding, once I get the vde thingy going, is that I can configure 
the network in 211bsd by modifying:


/etc/hosts (to assign the guest ip address - although why this should 
work is a mystery to me, I though this was just for mapping names to 
addresses, but apparently in v7, it is more than this...


/etc/netstart to assign hostname, default gateway, and broadcast
/etc/resolv.conf to assign dns servers

My current plan (need some input on values)

sudo vde_switch -s /tmp/switch1 -tap tap0 -m 666
sudo ifconfig tap0 <> netmask 255.255.255.0 up

in /etc/hosts
<>    sparky sparky.home

in /etc/netstart
hostname=sparky
netmask=255.255.255.0
broadcast=<>
default=<>

and in /etc/resolv.conf
domain home.local
nameserver 208.67.222.222
nameserver 208.67.220.220

So, what goes in SOMEIP (dunno what to call this), ANOTHERIP (the guests 
IP), YETANOTHERIP (broadcast), and MAYBESOMEIP (the gateway)?



Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose

[Will Senn]

On 7/1/19 9:48 AM, Bob Supnik wrote:

If I may interject a serious note...

The J-11 based simulators (11/73 and up) are the only ones that were 
verified against actual machine microcode. The 11/73 system was the 
only one verified against its board and system specification. The 
others are all derivatives.


I always debug with the 11/73. It has 4M memory, I/D space, and access 
to large disks via the MSCP controller.


/Bob

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Thank you, Bob! I'll take this as canonical and run with it :).

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[Simh] Which PDP-11 to choose

[Will Senn]

All,

Is there any particular reason to choose one model of PDP-11 over 
another in the sim? I am a user who is usually only interested in using 
one of the various programming languages available on the dec oses - I 
frequently use RT-11 for BASIC or ASSEMBLY and Unix V6 and V7 for C and 
for fun, as well as an occasional foray into RSTS-E and lately RSX 11-M 
Plus to try and find the perfect OS for as many programming languages as 
I can get in one place. In my language/os explorations, I generally just 
grab somebody's example ini file or take a default machine 11/40 or 
11/94, but it's been pretty will-nilly on my part. I'd like to have some 
kind of rationale related to necessity, but it doesn't really seem to 
make much difference. I know the 11/45 had split I/D, making it 'better' 
than the 11/40 and that the unibus is different than the q-bus and I'm 
sure the hardware support is different between the models, but I haven't 
really been prevented from running anything that is runnable... but of 
course, if I was prevented, I just chalked it up to who knows why that 
didn't work, so I might never know if I'm missing out on the El Dorado 
of ancient OSes. Does anyone have some guidelines to help choose which 
model configuration is appropriate for various needs? Or, in this day 
and age of endless supplies of ram and memory, should I just load it up 
to the biggest, baddest, pdp-11 of all time and leave it at that (and if 
so, which one is that?).


Thanks for the assist.

Regards,

Will

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[Simh] Tun/Tap in Mint for RSX-11M Plus 4.6 running in SimH PDP11

[Will Senn]

This question may best be asked elsewhere but I'm struggling to make it 
work with SimH, so here it is :)


tldr; How can I get tun/tap working with Mint 19 and SimH RSX-11M Plus 
4.6 so that I can access the internet from the instance and telnet to it 
from another machine on the network?


Here's the background... I am trying to get RSX-11M Plus 4.6 working in 
SimH with networking on my Mint 19.1 T430 Thinkpad and it's proving 
difficult (both in execution and understanding). I've tried this tap 
stuff before and remember being uber frustrated then, too. But now, I 
know way more about stuff then I did back then.


System: T430 ThinkPad w/16GB Ram, SSD's, 1600x screen.

OS: Linux Mint 19.1 (debian/ubuntu derivative).

Software: SimH built with: make USE_READER_THREAD=1 USE_TAP_NETWORK=1 
USE_INT64=1 vax vax780 pdp11 pdp8


What I'm trying to do: Get my RSX-11M talking to the internet and be 
able to telnet into it, preferably from another laptop on the network.


What I've tried: followed a gist by Upi Temminen for getting it running 
on a pi:


https://gist.github.com/desaster/c49b0f7afa5e061b8f33f159e521b6ee

After installing parprouted, uml-utilities, tunctl, and simh as 
described, did the following:


/etc/sysctl.conf
net.ipv4.conf.all.proxy_arp=1
net.ipv4.ip_forward=1

sudo vi /etc/network/interfaces.d/tap
auto tap-simh0
iface tap-simh0 inet manual
    pre-up tunctl -t tap-simh0 -u simhuser
    up ip link set tap-simh0 up
    up /usr/sbin/parprouted wlp3s0 tap-simh0
    up /sbin/ip link set wlp3s0 promisc on
    post-down ip link set tap-simh0 down
    post-down tunctl -d tap-simh0

auto tap-simh1
iface tap-simh1 inet manual
    pre-up tunctl -t tap-simh1 -u simhuser
    up ip link set tap-simh1 up
    up /usr/sbin/parprouted wlp3s0 tap-simh1
    up /sbin/ip link set wlp3s0 promisc on
    post-down ip link set tap-simh1 down
    post-down tunctl -d tap-simh1

rebooted

used oscar's boot.ini, but with this section for ethernet:

; Ethernet
set xu enable
set xu type=deuna
set xu mac=aa:00:04:00:0c:34
attach xu tap:tap-simh0
sho xu

which resulted in:

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Current    git commit id: b3fa1f9f
Disabling XQ
/opt/pidp11/systems/rsx11mplus/boot.ini-16> attach xu tap:tap-simh0
libpcap version 1.8.1
Eth: opened OS device tap-simh0
XU    address=17774510-17774517, vector=120, BR5, MAC=AA:00:04:00:0C:34
    type=DEUNA, throttle=disabled
    attached to tap:tap-simh0
CPU    11/70, FPP, RH70, autoconfiguration enabled, idle disabled
    4088KB
RQ0: 'PiDP11_DU0.dsk' Contains an ODS1 File system
RQ0: Volume Name:  RSX11MPBL87 Format: DECFILE11A   Sectors In Volume: 
615000

/opt/pidp11/systems/rsx11mplus/boot.ini-35> attach rq1 PiDP11_DU1.dsk
RQ1: creating new file
/opt/pidp11/systems/rsx11mplus/boot.ini-45> attach dz 10001
Listening on port 10001
DZ    address=17760030-17760037*, vector=330-334*, BR5, lines=8
    attached to 10001, 8b, 0 current connections

RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6  BL87   1920.KW  System:"PIDP11"

...snip
>; INSTALL TCP/IP
>;
>SET /NAMED
>SET /UIC=[1,2]
>* Load TCP/IP? [Y/N D:Y T:15S]:
>load if:/vec/high
>load ip:/vec/high
>load ud:/vec/high
>load tc:/vec/high
LOA -- Warning - loadable driver larger than 4K
>con onl if0:
>con onl if1:
>con onl ip:
>con onl ud:
>con onl tc:
>ins lb:[ip]ethacp/fmap=yes
>ins lb:[ip]ifconfig
>ins lb:[ip]netstat
>ins lb:[ip]ping
>ins lb:[ip]tracert
>ins lb:[ip]resacp
>dfl "Frodo"=HOSTNAME/GBL
>dfl "LOGICAL,DNS,FILE"=RESOLV$ORDER/GBL
>dfl LB:[1,2]HOSTS.TXT=HOSTS/GBL
>dfl "LOGICAL,FILE"=RESOLV$ORDER
>ifc create 256
>ifc start
Starting IP.
Starting UD.
Starting TC.
>ifc set if0: dhcp acp ethacp lin UNA-0
>dfl ",RTR,DNS,DOM"="DHCP$IF0"/gbl
>;.ifins if0 can if0
>ins lb:[ip]dhcp
>run dhcp
>ifc set if1: add localhost
09:30:21  TCP/IP - ethernet ACP using DECnet DLX
09:30:21  Starting resolver V2.2
>ifc set if1: sta ope

 DHCP - Failed to find any DHCP servers. Giving up...

which explains why this don't work:
>
>PING GOOGLE.COM
Unknown host: GOOGLE.COM

...snip

if I:

ip link show

...

4: tap-simh0:  mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel 
state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000

    link/ether 22:f2:0d:23:2d:63 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff

To my untrained eye, it would appear that tap-simh0 isn't getting an ip 
address :).


Help?!

Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] RSX-11 M Plus version to try

[Will Senn]

On 6/22/19 9:07 PM, Mark Matlock wrote:

Mark,

Will,
I didn’t record a log of the SYSGEN but when you do a SYSGEN it creates 
three saved answer files. SYSGEN will ask if you have them and with them you 
can recreate the process. If you tell it at the beginning you want a dry run 
and you can make your own log file.
Also you can just print the files and see all the options, CSR values and 
vectors that were entered for the peripherals.

The saved answer files are

DU:[200,200]SYSGENSA1.CMD
DU:[200,200]SYSGENSA2.CMD
DU:[200,200]SYSGENSA3.CMD

And they are on the disk you downloaded.


Cool. I'll give this a shot!


Will


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Re: [Simh] RSX-11 M Plus version to try

[Will Senn]

Supratim,

Thanks!

> On Jun 22, 2019, at 5:39 PM, Supratim Sanyal  wrote:
> 
> Will,
> 
> Mark’s (cc’d) distribution is another alternative. Quoting Mark:
> 
> wget http://rsx11m.com/PiDP11_DU0.zip
> 
> This is a RSX11M+ V4.6 sysgened for the PiDP-11/70 with most all the common 
> programming languages including APL, DTR, BP2 V2.7, F77, etc.

Greatness. I don’t suppose the actual sysgen procedure was captured / 
documented ?

> 
> wget http://rsx11m.com/PiDP11_DU1.zip
> 
> This is a 1.5 GB disk when upzipped that has all the RSX Sig tapes that are 
> available as .dsk files that can be accessed with VCP.

Wow. Once I have a clue how to find my way around the os. This’ll be great.

Will
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Re: [Simh] RSX-11 M Plus version to try

[Will Senn]

On 6/22/19 4:50 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

You should definitely go with V4.6, which is the latest released version.

Cool. I just read the pidp11 manual and it looks like Oscar's already 
done a lot of the legwork for getting rsx up and running on the pi that 
is part of the kit. So, since I'm eventually gonna solder that up, I'll 
just fire up the pi and use the rsx distro he's using as a starting point.


This is a complex question. There is the introduction to RSX manual. 
But it presents the system from a user point of view. If you want to 
understand how to manage the system, there aren't that many short 
howtos around. You should probably read the system managers manual. 
But that's a big manual to just plow through...


Check http://mim.update.uu.se/manuals/rsx


Thanks for the link.

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[Simh] RSX-11 M Plus version to try

[Will Senn]

All,

I'm looking to try out something new and different on pdp11 (I've done 
my fair share of v6, v7, rt-11, and rsts and prolly a few others - y'all 
know this cuz about twice a year, I ask a slew of newb questions on the 
list). This year's exploration looks to be rsx-11 m plus... My questions 
are these:


1.  What version is available to run in simh that has the broadest 
selection of languages (asm, bas, pascal, fortran, etc)?


2. What version runs Johnny's tcp/ip stuff best?

3. What version has lots and lots and lost of documentation around?

Also, bonus question - do any of y'all have any great getting started 
guides or books or know where to find them?


My searching around has led me to think 4.6...

Regards,

Will


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Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Will Senn]

On 1/23/19 1:16 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:

Here is the scan of EDU #7

http://storage.datormuseum.se/u/96935524/Datormusuem/EDU/Digital-EDU-7-newsletter.pdf

It is scanned in 600dpi color so it is big. Please anyone that has 
good tools might squeeze it a bit without loosing resolution and color.


It's beautiful, even if it's big - PDF's are such a pain, but very 
convenient. Thanks for sharing.


I wonder if anyone's doing anything remotely as high quality as this 
newsletter for educational computing, these days...


Will

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Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Will Senn]

On 1/21/19 3:55 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
Anyway, the point is that simple computer games in BASIC were being 
passed around between people (as paper tapes), particularly if you had 
acccess to multiple different brands of computers.    You always had 
the source code, in those days so it was really not big deal.  In 
fact, my memory is that one of the new things that you could do on the 
PDP-10 was >>compile<< your basic program, or at least leave it in 
some form that some one could not see what you had done.   But the HP 
and GE system, you just loaded the program and typed 'list' - often 
after turning on the paper tape punch the ASR33.


Clem


Wow

So, I dug a bit and found the code is practically everywhere  and when 
folks extended it, they were pretty specific about what they extended. 
Take the code for the library computer's calculator for distance and 
direction... it's nearly untouched in other versions - prolly cuz it's a 
little convoluted (seems like some translation from rectangular to polar 
coordinates and back again using standard trig functions would have 
worked and been MUCH easier to understand...


In reviewing the SPACWR code, and comparing it to STTR1 which preceded 
it and SUPERTREK which came later, I came across this bit of library 
computer code for calculating direction and distance from one sector in 
a quadrant to another. It seems like basic trig would have been easier, 
but the author chose another route, pun intended. In the code where the 
direction is calculated, though, it looks like there are at least 2 
bugs. But, seeing as all of the versions use basically the same exact 
logic, I must be missing something and I am hoping y'all know something 
about the interpreter that makes this magically ok, or can read it 
better than I and tell me that it's actually ok, as is (maybe the bugs 
don't materially effect the outcome) or this was a well known quirk of 
the system that was beloved by all oldtimers :).


I'm running this in RSTSV06C-03, but STTR1 was written for an HP 
calculator or something and SUPERTREK was written for a Data General 
Nova 800 w/32K of core, so I don't think it's a system specific issue, 
but rather a straight up logic problem.


Below is the code and it's pretty self contained.

The 2 bugs are these:

1. Lines 4880, 5250, and 5270 refer to H8. H8 is effectively constant 0, 
set in 4880 and again in 5270, the check in 5250 will never evaluate 
true. It looks like it was meant to break out of the loop early, but 
there aren't any other uses of it elsewhere in the code - but it's 
persistent - appearing in many versions of the code, doing nothing.


2. The more pernicious, or at least annoying to me bug is the test in 
line 5140, X is always less than zero here. So the path from 5140 to 
5190 is never executed.


I don't want to fix anything until I'm sure it's broken. I don't 
particularly care for the method used here, but if it works...


Here's what the vector's get translated into (the direction, a real 
number between 1 and 8.999etc that is calculated), for reference:



 4  3  2
  \ ^ /
   \^/
5 - 1
   /^\
  / ^ \
 6  7  8

This is the code followed by my annotations for what they're worth 
(usually I put them in column 90, but that wouldn't look good in email, 
so I just split 'em):


4880 PRINT:H8=0
4881 REM *** PHOTON TORPEDO DATA CODE BEGINS HERE
4900 FOR I=1TO3
4910 IF K(I,3)<=0 THEN 5260
4920 C1=S1:A=S2:W1=K(I,1):X=K(I,2)
4960 GOTO 5010
4970 PRINT"YOU ARE AT QUADRANT ( "Q1","Q2" )  SECTOR ( "S1","S2" )"
4990 INPUT "SHIP AND TARGET COORDINATES ARE:";C1,A,W1,X
5010 X=X-A:A=C1-W1
5030 IF X<0 THEN 5130
5031 IF A<0 THEN 5190
5050 IF X>0 THEN 5070
5051 IF A=0 THEN 5150
5070 C1=1
5080 IF ABS(A) <= ABS(X) THEN 5110
5085 V5=C1+(((ABS(A)-ABS(X))+ABS(A))/ABS(A))
5090 PRINT "DIRECTION ="V5
5100 GOTO 5240
5110 PRINT "DIRECTION ="C1+(ABS(A)/ABS(X))
5120 GOTO 5240
5130 IF A>0 THEN 5170
5140 IF X=0 THEN 5190
5150 C1=5:GOTO 5080
5170 C1=3:GOTO5200
5190 C1=7
5200 IF ABS(A)>=ABS(X) THEN 5230
5210 PRINT "DIRECTION ="C1+(((ABS(X)-ABS(A))+ABS(X))/ABS(X))
5220 GOTO 5240
5230 PRINT "DIRECTION ="C1+(ABS(X)/ABS(A))
5240 PRINT "DISTANCE ="SQR(X**2+A**2)
5250 IF H8=1 THEN 5320
5260 NEXT I
5270 H8=0
5280 INPUT "DO YOU WANT TO USE THE CALCULATOR";A$
5300 IF A$="YES" THEN 4970
5310 IF A$<>"NO" THEN 5280
5320 GOTO 1270
5321 REM *** END OF LIBRARY COMPUTER CODE

!  One Scenario that works to help illustrate (direction is 3)

! SECTOR MAP (SIMPLIFIED)
!
!   | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 |
!    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
! 1 |   |   | K1|   |   |   |   |   |
!    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
! 2 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
!    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
! 3 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
!    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
! 4 |   |   | E |   |   |   |   |   |
!    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
! 5 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
!    +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
! 6 |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
!    +---+---+---+---+

Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Will Senn]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 22, 2019, at 7:40 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/22/19 11:05 AM, Richard wrote:
> 
>>> this stuff, it appears that there was a DEC EDU newsletter before the 
>>> book, where're those?
>> 
>> I've asked the software librarian at the Computer History Museum, Al
>> Kossow, if he is aware of any in existence.
> 
> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102750880
> 
> I'm actually a software curator here.
> 
> 
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Cool. Is that a physical item that is being described? If so, is there a 
digital representation of the item available, if not, how does one access the 
item?

Regards,

Will
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Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Will Senn]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 22, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Mattis Lind  wrote:
> 
> 
> Den tis 22 jan. 2019 kl 20:06 skrev Richard :
>> In article ,
>> Will Senn  writes:
>> 
>> > this stuff, it appears that there was a DEC EDU newsletter before the 
>> > book, where're those?
> 
> 
> I have some DEC EDU material which I can scan if there are interest (and if 
> it isn't scanned already by someone else):
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/3G3wGJj.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/GJnFFt7.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/om5kjd1.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/AJefLIa.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/lll0LwA.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/lll0LwA.jpg
> https://i.imgur.com/tqmcieK.jpg
> 
> /Mattis
>  

Wow. High quality. It would be great to have more of these saved somewhere like 
bitsavers. 

>> 
>> I've asked the software librarian at the Computer History Museum, Al
>> Kossow, if he is aware of any in existence.  Al is the main person
>> behind bitsavers, so he usually has a good idea of what's around and
>> what's not, including what hasn't been scanned yet.
>> -- 
>> "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
>> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals-wiki.org>
>>  The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
>>   Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
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Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Will Senn]

On 1/21/19 5:09 PM, Al Kossow wrote:


On 1/21/19 2:51 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:


As to which came first, the book or the tape

Some background on Ahl and where this comes from is here:

https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v10n11/66_Dave_tells_Ahl__the_hist.php




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Thanks for the link. Fascinating story. Pioneering for sure. While DEC 
was innovative in their own right, they didn't see the PC coming, it 
would seem...


Will

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Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Will Senn]

Clem and others,

Thanks for the links and information. I would like to see even more of 
the tapes and books from the early days made available (most modern 
stuff is brought to life in the digital era and captured, but the old 
stuff mostly only lives in notebooks, booklets, books, binders and tapes 
that individuals possess). Thankfully, there's been a lot collected over 
the years, but there's plenty still out there in jeopardy of not being 
preserved. The 101 games book in bitsavers is great (the tape's even 
better), but it's only one of many editions. Also, in my reading up on 
this stuff, it appears that there was a DEC EDU newsletter before the 
book, where're those? If y'all have them or something like them in your 
basements, get them scanned before they rot away - or send them to 
someone who will scan them in, these things are getting scarce and are 
part of our (computing folks) historical record.


Regards,

Will



On 1/21/19 5:26 PM, Clem Cole wrote:

Will here is your answer:

/... I also put together a bunch of games I had written and
collected from others and put them into a book, 101 Basic Computer
Games. Six years later, in 1979, this became the first
million-selling computer book ever."/

ᐧ

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 6:09 PM Al Kossow > wrote:




On 1/21/19 2:51 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

> As to which came first, the book or the tape
Some background on Ahl and where this comes from is here:


https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v10n11/66_Dave_tells_Ahl__the_hist.php




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Re: [Simh] 101 Basic Games for RSTS/E (was Re: PDP11 on Simh for public access)

[Will Senn]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I’m curious as to the provenance of the 
tape. Where’d you find it and do you know when it’s from? The reason I’m asking 
is that I just spent a day typing in and debugging/working to comprehend the 
program SPACWR.BAS from the not so great scanned pages of 101 BASIC Computer 
Games off of bitsaver. As I was running the result on my SIMH PDP 11 running 
RSTS/E V06C-03, I made another run at finding the original source and came 
across this thread. I downloaded the RL01 and mounted in my RSTS 9.6 
environment which was sysgen’d with RL support, loaded up the code and printed 
it out for a comparison. I was shocked how close my read of the scans were to 
the version here. Part of my surprise was naturally related to the restoration 
process, but the other came from the fact that the code from this tape doesn’t 
mention David Ahl, Mary Cole or Ida Potel, whereas they are credited in the 
source code in 101 games for minor work and debugging. As far as I can tell, 
other than whitespace, the only differences between my restored version from 
the 101 games scan and this version, is the additional attribution- which makes 
me wonder if Ahl, et. al., made ANY meaningful contribution worthy of 
attribution to the program.

So, when was the tape created, before 101 games or after and who, exactly 
should have credit for the version therein?

Later,

Will

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 6:00 PM, Tony Nicholson  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Bryan Davies  
> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> I just need to get it all in a nice neat box, connect up he VT100, and 
>> download some games and things for the guests to use.
>> 
> 
> Bryan (and all).
> 
> I first encountered RSTS/E in 1975 on a PDP-11/45 when I was a student when I 
> discovered a book "101 Basic Computer Games" with an accompanying DECtape.
> 
> Recently I tracked down a copy of the book in PDF format and an image of the 
> DECtape (that had to be fixed-up so that it was readable) on bitsavers .
> 
> The book is at -
> 
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/_Books/101_BASIC_Computer_Games_Mar75.pdf
> 
> I now have this running on RSTS/E V10.1 and RSTS V06C-03 under SIMH - after 
> some minor edits to fix changes to the Basic-Plus source file syntax (spaces 
> between keywords etc).
> 
> I've zipped-up the fixed DECtape image (DOS format) and an RL01 RSTS level 
> 1.2 format disk image (label=GAMES) that you can copy the games from either 
> and run them!
> 
> The RL01 disk image is easiest (since DECtape support requires some fiddling 
> and correct pdp11 unibus 18-bit model selection).
> 
> In your SIMH .ini file (assuming you have sysgen'ed some RL type disks) you 
> can -
>set rl enable
>set rl0 rl01
>att rl0 rl01-games.dsk
> 
> Then once RSTS/E is up as a privileged user just "MOUNT DL0: GAMES" and look 
> in DL0:[100,100]
> 
> The zip file is 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgZkafQABxWUXeuEkeq1GjkBe3sF2Zgx/view?usp=sharing
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
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[Simh] Simulating Fortran

[Will Senn]

Hi all,

I’m looking for a good lead on two things - 1. A fortran environment for 
learning the language as it existed in the  research unix v6/v7 era (roughly 
late ‘70’s). 2. A good text/book to guide the way toward building and running 
fortran programs successfully.

I’m a little lost in the sea of possibilities- v6’s fortran however good that 
is... v7’s, rt-11’s, etc. http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Simh] Quest from 1979 on RSTS/E V06C-03 in Simh

[Will Senn]

All,

I had some fun over the past few days playing around with BASIC-PLUS and 
thought I would share it with you. I resurrected an old BASIC game and 
played it on SIMH running RSTS/E V06C-03 and BASIC-PLUS mostly to learn 
more about BASIC, my first language back in the day, but also to play an 
old style adventure inspired game that was originally written for a 
Commodore Pet 2001, the first computer I ever programmed.


Read on for some old time fun and reminiscence.

TLDR (links at bottom of email):
1. Grab SIMH
2. Grab RSTS/E V06C-03
3. Grab the source code
4. Fire up RSTS/E
5. Paste the source code into the BASIC-PLUS runtime
6. Play the game until you're weary of being lost
7. Read the code to 'cheat'

I wanted to learn BASIC "over the weekend". I found two books at the 
used bookstore that looked interesting on the subject:


1. Introduction to BASIC, by Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC), 1978.
2. BASIC, by M. Boillot and W. Horn, 1976

In preparing to go through the books, I wanted to find an environment 
that would allow me to just type in the examples, as written, and obtain 
the results, as written. So, I skimmed them looking for clues.


I found the following in the DEC book on page xv:

Because it is beyond the scope of this manual to describe each system 
and BASIC version, it is necessary to choose a representative pair for 
the presentation of examples. The examples in this manual are the result 
of using BASIC-PLUS on the RSTS/E system.


Further down the page, was an even more helpful bit:

In response to the HELLO input, RSTS/E prints a line of indentification 
such as:


RSTS V06B-02 Timesharing  Job 28  KB33  01-Dec-76  09:57 AM


The Boillot mentioned Dartmouth BASIC and it had pictures of DEC 
equipment, so I was hopeful I could find a DEC BASIC-PLUS environment to 
run examples from.


So I went looking for a PDP11 compatible RSTS V06B-02 Timesharing 
environment. Well, RSTS V06B-02 Timesharing doesn't appear to exist in 
accessible places on the internet. However, RSTS V06C-03, does. I 
downloaded the preconfigured RK disk image, fired up SIMH, and started a 
session:


pdp11

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta    git commit id: 0a00d806
sim> attach rk1 rk2.dsk
sim> b rk1
Device DP23: does not interrupt - device disabled.
Device DP26: does not interrupt - device disabled.
Device DP27: does not interrupt - device disabled.
Device DP30: does not interrupt - device disabled.
Device DP31: does not interrupt - device disabled.


RSTS V06C-03 Vixen (DK1)

Option: START
JOB MAX or SWAP MAX changes? N
Table suboption? EXIT
DD-MMM-YY? 10-MAR-88
12:03 AM? 12:00PM
Command File Name?

HELLO 11/70
Password: PDP (won't echo)

Fix a few annoyances in RSTS:
RUN $TTYSET
TTYSET  V06C-03 RSTS V06C-03 Vixen
Terminal characteristics program
? LC INPUT
? lc output
? scope
? exit

Ready

5 REM THE OBLIGATORY CONFIRMATION THAT THE WORLD IS OK
10 PRINT "HELLO, WORLD."

RUN
NONAME  12:18 AM    10-Mar-88
HELLO, WORLD.

Ready

Next, I found and downloaded DEC-11-ORBPB-A-D_BASIC-PLUS_LangMan_Jul75 
and learned a bit about RSTS's dialog of BASCIC.


I tried some code from different sections of Boillot and they all worked 
as written. I tried a few from the DEC book and the manual and decided 
the environment was sufficient for learning BASIC. I then worked through 
both books and the manual. It's amazing how well written these books 
from a nearly forgotten era are compared to today's.


Once I got the hang of the language, I decided to go after a bigger fish 
- a 'real' program, a game, of course. The game I chose was Quest, by 
Roger Chaffee, originally published in Byte magazine in July of 1979. I 
had heard of Quest through another BASIC game I had played extensively 
back in the day, called Treasure, by James L. Dean. Dean wrote Treasure 
in 1980 and he credited Quest as inspiration for his game.


I downloaded archive.org's copy of the original article and printed out 
the source code. I spent a day typing it in line by line and another 
fixing my typos and misinterpretations (try reading a scan of a 40 year 
old magazine page and see if you do any better). But, eventually, I was 
able to fire it up:


QUEST   01:13 AM    10-Mar-88
   QUEST

YOU WERE WALKING THROUGH THE
WOODS, AND YOU CAME ACROSS THE ENTRANCE
OF A CAVE, COVERED WITH BRUSH.

PEOPLE SAY THAT MANY YEARS AGO A
PIRATE HID HIS TREASURE IN THESE
WOODS, BUT NO ONE HAS EVER FOUND IT.
IT MAY STILL BE HERE, FOR ALL I KNOW.

WHEN YOU ANSWER A QUESTION, I LOOK AT
ONLY THE FIRST LETTER, ALTHOUGH YOU CAN
TYPE THE WHOLE WORD IF YOU WANT.

TYPE N,S,E,W,U, OR D FOR NORTH, SOUTH,
EAST,WEST, UP OR DOWN. TYPE P FOR SCORE


YOU'RE OUTSIDE THE CAVE.
GO SOUTH TO ENTER.

 WHICH WAY?

Yeeha! Three and a half hours later, I had had found the treasure and 
was wandering around trying to find my way out. I scoured the article 
for hints and found:


It is possible to get through the cave by reading the program and 
decoding 

[Simh] Dennis_V6 rk05 image v6root bootable in simh?

[Will Senn]

I'm working along with the v6 course https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2003

and I came across instructions for running v6 from 3 rk05 images - 
v6root v6doc v6src. The images in the course are not available on the 
internet, so I went looking to see if TUHS had something similar. I 
found the Dennis_v6 folder with what appear to be gzipped copeis of the 
3 rk05 images. I downloaded the root disk, unpacked it and tried to boot 
in the latest SIMH (tried in earlier versions also):


curl -O -L 
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v6/v6root.gz

gunzip v6root.gz
terra:v6-mit wsenn$ pdp11

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta    git commit id: 1d2742ed
sim> att rk0 v6root
sim> boot rk0
Trap stack push abort, PC: 43 (JSR SP,@43(R0))
sim>

Does anyone know if this image is actually an rk05 and is bootable 
(bonus points for info on how to tell by looking at the file)?


I run v6 all the time, but I built my environment off Ken Wellsch's tape 
distribution files.




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Re: [Simh] NetBSD 7.0+ halt on development version (and some earlier versions) simh - mac and linux

[Will Senn]

On 11/10/17 12:22 AM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Will Senn wrote:

  >>>boot dual:
(BOOT/R5:0 DUAL

    2..
?41 DEVASSIGN, DUAL
HALT instruction, PC: 0C1A (MOVL (R11),SP)
sim> q
Goodbye
Eth: closed en1
Please try:

boot DUA1:

Note the Digit 1, rather than the letter "L".

- Mark


Oh man, was it late last night :). Duh. Thanks for being so nice. Of 
course it was dua1...


Will

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[Simh] NetBSD 7.0+ halt on development version (and some earlier versions) simh - mac and linux

[Will Senn]

All,

 I am trying to run the latest netbsd in simh on the microvax 3900 sim 
according to the instructions found at 
https://www.netbsd.org/ports/vax/emulator-howto.html and I'm getting a 
halt. I tried it on the latest, but also on the 7.0 iso which apparently 
worked at some point. I also tried it on linux and it halted there as 
well. This issue has been raised previously, but I didn't see the 
resolution. Here is my mac run with simh and ini file:


$ vax

MicroVAX 3900 simulator V4.0-0 Beta    git commit id: 733ac0d9
sim> do -v {netbsd-boot}
File open error
sim> do -v netbsd-boot
netbsd-boot-1> load -r ka655x.bin
netbsd-boot-2> set cpu 64m
netbsd-boot-3> set rq0 ra92
netbsd-boot-4> at rq0 netbsd.dsk
netbsd-boot-5> set rq1 cdrom
netbsd-boot-6> at rq1 vax.iso
netbsd-boot-7> at xq0 en1
libpcap version 1.8.1 -- Apple version 67.60.2
Eth: opened OS device en1
netbsd-boot-8> boot cpu

KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7
Performing normal system tests.
40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..
24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09..
08..07..06..05..04..03..
Tests completed.
>>>boot dual:
(BOOT/R5:0 DUAL

  2..
?41 DEVASSIGN, DUAL
HALT instruction, PC: 0C1A (MOVL (R11),SP)
sim> q
Goodbye
Eth: closed en1

==

and linux - doesn't seem to like my nic setting:

vax netbsd-boot

MicroVAX 3900 simulator V4.0-0 Beta    git commit id: 1d2742ed
Eth: open error - Unknown or unsupported network device
netbsd-boot-7> at xq0 enp0s25
File open error

KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7
Performing normal system tests.
40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25..
24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09..
08..07..06..05..04..03..
Tests completed.
>>>boot dual:
(BOOT/R5:0 DUAL

  2..
?41 DEVASSIGN, DUALnetbsd-boot-8> boot cpu

HALT instruction, PC: 0C1A (MOVL (R11),SP)
sim>

Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh

[Will Senn]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 9, 2017, at 2:10 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
>> On 2017-11-09 07:51, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
>> Johnny Billquist  writes:
>>> I bet that would be written in some ANSI C, for which you won't find a
>>> C compiler for V7...
>> GCC has a PDP-11 backend, so maybe you can cross compile it.
> 
> That would depend on if calling conventions, register conventions, a.out 
> format and so on are compatible between V7 and whatever format gcc uses. Not 
> to mention you also need all the V7 libraries where you do the cross compile. 
> I suspect this might be a bit much to deal with for Will...
> 
>  Johnny
> 

You got that right, Johnny. Besides, the binary on the tape for more, a lesser 
less, works well enough:).  

I'm slowly but surely getting better at figuring out the environment - as I hit 
obstacles and overcome them, sometimes through my own efforts and sometimes 
with a little much appreciated assist.

I've still got a ways to go, before I'm ready to cross compile for V7 without 
just doing the script kiddie method of copying and pasting stuff somebody said 
oughta work without any real depth of understanding what's going on under the 
hood. 

I've cross compiled linuxy stuff for arm and suchlike, but it's scripted, the 
binary formats standard, the header files in the right places, any chrooting 
set up by the scripts, etc. The concept isn't that difficult, but there are a 
lot of moving parts and potential complications. That said  Warren's written 
some tools for this kinda work that are prolly simpler IIRC (aout?).

Will
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Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh

[Will Senn]

On 11/7/17 8:09 PM, khandy21yo wrote:
Does V7 require a special version, or can you just download less from 
gnu.org?



Dunno about getting modern versions of less working on v7, but this is 
as much an exploration into history as in pragmatics. To put a bow on 
this, I found more in the 3bsd distro (haven't quite figured out how to 
compile it - it's looking for a bunch of library routines that don't 
exist in my stock v7). Also, 1bsd is for v6 and 2bsd for both v6 and v7 
(but the binaries on the tape only run on v6) - here's the relevant part 
of Bill Joy's installation note:


Version 7

 This is the new version of UNIX which has just been  released by
Bell Laboratories.  Most of the software here has been running on ver-
sion 7 for several months at Berkeley.

 The binaries on the distribution tape will NOT run on version 7,
as  they  were  compiled  on a PDP-11 version 6 system.  Thus you must
recompile from the source for a version 7 system.  This  will  not be
hard  since almost all of the software thinks it is running on version
7.  The one exception is the Pascal system, which has not been run on
version 7 (since we don't have version 7 on our PDP-11s yet).

Fascinating stuff.

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Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh

[Will Senn]

Brilliant. Thanks for the reminder. It's all crystal clear to me now :).

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
> Repeat after me: tapes are not streams of bytes. See Clem's response for more 
> detail. :-)
> 
>  Johnny
> 
>> On 2017-11-07 20:58, Will Senn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I think I may have asked this a couple of years ago, but I am unable to find 
>> the email conversation, so I'll ask it again from a position of experience 
>> and greater but still lacking knowledge... here's the background - I am 
>> running a v7 instance in simh that I am quite pleased with. However, I saw 
>> somewhere where someone was running some additional software on their 
>> instance and of course, I just had to have it for my own. Unfortunately, 
>> it's not clear how they got the software, where it's from, or how they got 
>> it running. There are hints that the stuff came from early bsd. So... I 
>> thought I would try getting the bsd source on to my v7 instance to see if I 
>> could compile it and play around with it. There's a 1bsd.tar.gz in the tuhs 
>> archive. It being a tar file, I figured I could:
>> gunzip 1bsd.tar.gz
>> in simh:
>> att mt0 1bsd.tar
>> in v7, which defaults to mt1 for some reason, (not a configured device on my 
>> system and isn't created by make tm in /dev):
>> tar vxfb /dev/rmt0 1
>> nboot.ini-13> boot rp0
>> Invalid magtape record length, PC: 002400 (MOV 16,R0)
>> or
>> tar xv0
>> nboot.ini-13> boot rp0
>> Invalid magtape record length, PC: 002400 (MOV 16,R0)
>> I don't know why the nboot.ini-13> boot rp0 artifact is appearing (prolly 
>> some buffer flush when the sim aborts)... but of more concern is why I can't 
>> access the tar. I'm sure it is a gap in my understanding, so I'd appreciate 
>> some help.
>> Thanks,
>> Will
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> 
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>  ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
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Re: [Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh

[Will Senn]

On 11/7/17 2:45 PM, Clem Cole wrote:



On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 3:37 PM, Clem Cole > wrote:


You need to convert the foo.tar file to a foo.tap before simh's
mag tape reader will understand it.


​1.) ​
gunzip 1bsd.tar.gz
2
​.)
enblock <1bsd.tar >
​1bsd
.tap
​
​3.) ​in simh: att mt0 1bsd.tap
​4.) in unix:  ​tar vxfb /dev/rmt0 ...


Thanks, Clem. Now I'm getting somewhere!

I converted to a tap file (lo and behold, I wrote a perl script that did 
this for the silly thing 2 years ago) and ran it. Then attached the tap 
to simh and in v7:


# tar xvfb /dev/rmt0
Invalid blocksize. (Max 20)

hmm... that doesn't sound good, let's try it another way:

# tar xv0
tar: ashell/ - cannot create
x ashell/cont.a, 114488 bytes, 224 tape blocks
x ashell/READ_ME, 825 bytes, 2 tape blocks
# ls -ld ashell
drwxrwxr-x 2 root   64 Dec 31 22:18 ashell
# ls ashell
READ_ME
cont.a
# find . -name "more*" -a -print
#
...

It's coming back to me now, but oh so slowly, why is it complaining 
about cannot create all the while creating the folder? Also, darn! I was 
hoping more would be in there somewhere. Anybody know where the more or 
less pager source code might be for v7?


Thanks,

Will



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[Simh] Attach tar to tape device and access it from v7 in simh

[Will Senn]

Hi,

I think I may have asked this a couple of years ago, but I am unable to 
find the email conversation, so I'll ask it again from a position of 
experience and greater but still lacking knowledge... here's the 
background - I am running a v7 instance in simh that I am quite pleased 
with. However, I saw somewhere where someone was running some additional 
software on their instance and of course, I just had to have it for my 
own. Unfortunately, it's not clear how they got the software, where it's 
from, or how they got it running. There are hints that the stuff came 
from early bsd. So... I thought I would try getting the bsd source on to 
my v7 instance to see if I could compile it and play around with it. 
There's a 1bsd.tar.gz in the tuhs archive. It being a tar file, I 
figured I could:


gunzip 1bsd.tar.gz

in simh:

att mt0 1bsd.tar

in v7, which defaults to mt1 for some reason, (not a configured device 
on my system and isn't created by make tm in /dev):


tar vxfb /dev/rmt0 1
nboot.ini-13> boot rp0

Invalid magtape record length, PC: 002400 (MOV 16,R0)

or

tar xv0

nboot.ini-13> boot rp0

Invalid magtape record length, PC: 002400 (MOV 16,R0)

I don't know why the nboot.ini-13> boot rp0 artifact is appearing 
(prolly some buffer flush when the sim aborts)... but of more concern is 
why I can't access the tar. I'm sure it is a gap in my understanding, so 
I'd appreciate some help.


Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] set cpu idle not working?

[Will Senn]

Oops, found it in the manual:
The CPU is considered idle if a WAIT instruction is executed. This will 
work for RSTS/E and RSX-11M+, but not for RT-11 or UNIX.


So, not unix, bummer.

Will

On 11/6/17 9:32 PM, Will Senn wrote:
I am using pdp11 for a v7 instance, and it seems to be taxing the cpu 
a bit more than I'd like on my laptop (killing my battery life). I 
have the following in my ini:


   echo
   echo After Disabling XQ is displayed type in boot
   echo and at the : prompt type in hp(0,0)unix
   echo
   set cpu 11/70
   set cpu 2M
   set cpu idle

Shouldn't this cause the sim to idle when I'm not using it? It doesn't 
appear to have that effect.


I'm on MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, with PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta    
git commit id: 1d2742ed


Thanks,

Will



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[Simh] set cpu idle not working?

[Will Senn]

I am using pdp11 for a v7 instance, and it seems to be taxing the cpu a 
bit more than I'd like on my laptop (killing my battery life). I have 
the following in my ini:


   echo
   echo After Disabling XQ is displayed type in boot
   echo and at the : prompt type in hp(0,0)unix
   echo
   set cpu 11/70
   set cpu 2M
   set cpu idle

Shouldn't this cause the sim to idle when I'm not using it? It doesn't 
appear to have that effect.


I'm on MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, with PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta    
git commit id: 1d2742ed


Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] Networking help with 4.3 BSD Quasijarus running on SimH microvax

[Will Senn]

On 11/4/17 7:50 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
(I honestly fail to understand why anyone would ever want to deal with 
Quasijaurus... And I haven't seen anything from Solokov in about 15 
years or so now, is he still working on it?)


Anyway, how backward can Quasijaurus become? If ping don't have a -n 
option, there must surely be some other switch which does the 
equivalent of just printing ip addresses without doing any translation?


  Johnny


Johnny,

As is my usual motive for dabbling in unfamiliar waters, I'm reading a 
book, "Advanced Unix Programming" by Marc J. Rochkind, written in 1985. 
It is written from a System V/System III/Xenix 3 and to a lesser extent 
BSD 4.2/Version 7 perspective and I was looking around for one of these 
environments to get a dev environment working that would map to what I 
was reading that wasn't Version 7 and that would work well in a 
simulator. In the process of looking, I found Quasijaurus and it seemed 
it might serve this and other purposes. I also found a version of PC/IX 
that runs ok in CGA mode on my mac that might work. I think it's 
basically a System V variant. Do you think there's a better match?


Thanks,

Will




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Re: [Simh] Networking help with 4.3 BSD Quasijarus running on SimH microvax

[Will Senn]

On 11/4/17 7:41 PM, Henry Bent wrote:
On 4 November 2017 at 20:23, Johnny Billquist > wrote:


Beyond that, it just looks like your name resolution is totally
failing. Can you ping some known address without involving dns or
any sort of name translation? Try something like ping -n 8.8.8.8
and report the result (the -n is important here).


That isn't going to work, Quasijarus doesn't have ping -n.  Just -d, 
-r, and -v.  I guess I should really just install Quasijarus myself so 
that I have a better troubleshooting platform, I've been looking for 
an excuse to do that for a little while anyway.


-Henry


Well, Johnny's comments helped a bit. I went back and retooled and now I 
can ping localhost and 192.168.0.132 and quasijarus, but nothing outside 
the box. Here are the pings and netstats:


# ping localhost
PING localhost (0.0.0.1): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 0.0.0.1: icmp_seq=0. time=10. ms
^C
localhost PING Statistics
4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 0/7/10

# ping 192.168.0.132
PING 192.168.0.132: 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.132: icmp_seq=0. time=20. ms
^C
192.168.0.132 PING Statistics
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 10/13/20

# ping quasijarus
PING quasijarus (192.168.0.132): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.132: icmp_seq=0. time=0. ms
quasijarus PING Statistics
3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip (ms)  min/avg/max = 0/0/0

# ping 192.168.0.1
PING 192.168.0.1: 56 data bytes
^C
192.168.0.1 PING Statistics
4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
# ping 8.8.8.8
PING 8.8.8.8: 56 data bytes
^C
8.8.8.8 PING Statistics
4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

# netstat -rn
Routing tables
Destination  Gateway    Flags Refs Use  Interface
0.0.0.1  0.0.0.1    UH  0 11  lo0
192.168.0.132    0.0.0.1    UH  1 28  lo0
default  192.168.0.1    UG  0 4  qe0
192.168  192.168.0.132  U   0 28  qe0

# ifconfig qe0
qe0: flags=43
    inet 192.168.0.132 netmask ff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255

# netstat -in
Name  Mtu   Network Address    Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs  Coll
qe0   1500  192.168 192.168.0.132  5 0   10 0 0
lo0   1536  0   0.0.0.1   63 0   63 0 0
#

Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] Networking help with 4.3 BSD Quasijarus running on SimH microvax

[Will Senn]

On 11/4/17 4:30 PM, Henry Bent wrote:


If Quasijarus is the same as vanilla 4.3BSD, unless otherwise 
configured localhost is 0.0.0.1 and not 127.0.0.1.  So does "ping 
localhost" work?  What does "ifconfig qe0" say?  And "netstat -rn"?


-Henry



Henry,

That explains the weird /etc/hosts, 0.1 is localhost as you say. Here 
are the results of the pings, ifconfig, and netstat - it looks odd, but 
I'm not that knowledgeable about how it ought to look. My comments are 
inline:


The first ping just sat there until I killed it:

# ping localhost
^C

Then I tried pinging a set number of times:

# ping -c 5 localhost
PING 5: 0 data bytes
^C5 PING Statistics
7 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

Then I tried the ip you suggested:

# ping 0.0.0.1
PING 0.0.0.1: 56 data bytes
^C
0.0.0.1 PING Statistics
3 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

Then the address from the hosts file:

# ping 0.1
PING 0.1: 56 data bytes
^C
0.1 PING Statistics
5 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

The ifconfig result looks promising:

# ifconfig qe0
qe0: flags=43
    inet 192.168.0.132 netmask ff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255

The 192.168 line in the netstat results is weird to me...:

# netstat -rn
Routing tables
Destination  Gateway    Flags Refs Use Interface
default  192.168.0.1    UG  0   15  qe0
192.168  192.168.0.132  U   1   24  qe0

Does this shed any light on my problem?

Thanks,

Will


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[Simh] Networking help with 4.3 BSD Quasijarus running on SimH microvax

[Will Senn]

All,

I'm a Vax newbie and 4.3 BSD newbie. I'm usually tooling around in V6/V7 
and modern linux, mac, bsd environments. I'm used to SIMH, but from a 
pdp11 perspective. I've never tried to get networking working in a SIMH 
vm...


I'm having some difficulty configuring my newly installed 4.3BSD 
Quasijarus for networking on my Mac Host and I'm hoping somebody here 
might help me figure out what's up. The system boots up and displays:


checking quotas: done.

But then it hangs for a while trying to set up the logger. It hangs up 
on services, sendmail, etc. I gather at this point that something's 
amiss with my network on the instance or in my simh setup. After the 
system comes up completely, I log in as root and ping yahoo.com - no 
result. I ping 192.168.0.1 (my gateway), and then 127.0.0.1 and get a 
result, but it's not what I'm hoping for -


PING 192.168.0.1: 56 data bytes
^C
192.168.0.1 PING Statistics
6 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

and

PING 127.0.0.1: 56 data bytes
^C
127.0.0.1 PING Statistics
4 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

Hmm. I'm stumped. All of my settings on the host and in the vax seem ok, 
but I may be missing something obvious. Either way, it's not working. 
The SIMH messages related to the nic are:


...
libpcap version 1.8.1 -- Apple version 67.60.2
Eth: opened OS device en1
...

then in the vax:

...

qe0 at uba0 csr 174440 vec 764, ipl 14
qe0: deqna, hardware address 08:00:2b:aa:bb:cc
...

I'm running on Mac OS X Sierra 10.12.6, 16GB RAM, etc. My SimH Vax is 
MicroVAX 3900 simulator V4.0-0 Beta    git commit id: 1d2742ed


I followed the really excellent notes at: 
http://www.tavi.co.uk/unixhistory/quasijarus.html


and hit no significant snags at any point. I innocently changed some 
parameters to suit my host environment:


ifconfig
en1: flags=8963 
mtu 1500

    ether 4c:8d:79:ef:2d:26
    inet6 fe80::18dc:318c:1da7:5048%en1 prefixlen 64 secured scopeid 0x5
    inet 192.168.0.4 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.0.255
    nd6 options=201
    media: autoselect
    status: active

vax.ini
set xq enable
set xq type=deqna
attach xq0 en1

then in the stage 4 part of the install, I used 192.168.0.132 as my ip 
(a free ip on my local net):


== netstart source
cat /etc/netstart
#!/bin/sh -
#
#   @(#)netstart    1.1 (Berkeley) 1/10/99

routedflags=-q
rwhod=NO

# myname is my symbolic name
# my-netmask is specified in /etc/networks
#
hostname=quasijarus
hostname $hostname

#ifconfig imp0 inet $hostname
#ifconfig de0 inet $hostname netmask my-netmask
#ifconfig qe0 inet $hostname netmask my-netmask
ifconfig qe0 192.168.0.132 netmask 255.255.255.0
route add default 192.168.0.1 1

ifconfig lo0  inet localhost
route add $hostname localhost 0
hostid $hostname

== disable named in rc
cat /etc/rc |grep named
#named;  echo -n ' named' >/dev/console

== use my local network dns
cat /etc/resolv.conf
nameserver 192.168.0.1

== set up name of instance
cat /etc/hosts
0.1 localhost localhost.my.domain
# Imaginary network.
0.2 myname.my.domain myname
0.3 myfriend.my.domain myfriend
192.168.0.132 quasijarus
==

On rebooting, I hit the nic issues. Any ideas what's going on or further 
diagnostic steps I can take? Advice much appreciated.


Will

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Re: [Simh] An abandoned piece of K&R C

[Will Senn]

On 11/3/17 12:14 AM, Leo Broukhis wrote:

https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/q/4965/4025


In the UNIX V7 version of the C language, there were the /\ (min) and 
the \/ (max) operators. In the source of the scanner part of the compiler,

snip



Leo,

This is a great question for the TUHS mailing list as well as SIMH, I 
know a lot of those folks are here as well, but you might think about 
cross-posting, or if you aren't on the list, I'd be happy to pass it along.


On the source code side of things, in case you haven't seen it, Diomidis 
Spinellis pieced together the most comprehensive Unix repo I've seen (44 
years of code with comments):

https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo

and his write up about it can be found here:
https://www2.dmst.aueb.gr/dds/pubs/conf/2015-MSR-Unix-History/html/Spi15c.html

Later,

Will

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 disk image

[Will Senn]

On 11/2/17 5:19 PM, Henry Bent wrote:
On 2 November 2017 at 11:07, Will Senn <mailto:will.s...@gmail.com>> wrote:


On 11/1/17 11:57 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has a pre-built RT-11 with Fortran IV
installed that they could send. I followed multiple tutorials on
installing it and I always am unsuccessful. Someone sent me one
about a year ago but I lost it in a hard drive crash. Any help
would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Ray


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Ray,

I am at work, or I'd try to throw an image together for you. I'll
look at this tonight. In the meantime, I have some notes on how to
do it that should hold up even though I wrote then a couple of
years ago. There are two - one for RT11 and one for the
programming environment. If you follow them both, you should wind
up with a working RT11 v5.3 with Fortran IV that is capable of
building the ADVENT source code into a working program. After that
you're on your own - I'm not a RT11 guy or a Fortran guy :)

RT11 note:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-aU9nZm1ETTRfY1U
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-aU9nZm1ETTRfY1U>

Fortran and programming environment note:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-bnV1YWpNX0JRczA
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-bnV1YWpNX0JRczA>

Now that my interest is tweaked, I may clean 'em up and post them
on my blog in a more readable form.

Thanks,

Will

Hi Will,

I am not a Fortran person either but I do have a little bit of RT11 
experience, along with a fair bit of SIMH experience, and I just 
wanted to say that both of these documents are exceptionally well 
done.  Their explicit transcription and verbosity make them suitable 
for the absolute beginner, and that same plain English makes them easy 
to scan through for someone who knows a bit more about the subject.  I 
applaud your work.


-Henry

Thanks! I was trying to capture what I understood about it at the time 
and do it in a way that would also be replicable down the road. I should 
have put it up on the blog, but I generally won't put it out there if 
it's not 100% and this one has a few rough edges that I haven't taken 
the time to clean up.


Will

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 disk image

[Will Senn]

On 11/2/17 10:07 AM, Will Senn wrote:

On 11/1/17 11:57 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has a pre-built RT-11 with Fortran IV 
installed that they could send. I followed multiple tutorials on 
installing it and I always am unsuccessful. Someone sent me one about 
a year ago but I lost it in a hard drive crash. Any help would be 
greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance

Ray


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Ray,

I am at work, or I'd try to throw an image together for you. I'll look 
at this tonight. In the meantime, I have some notes on how to do it 
that should hold up even though I wrote then a couple of years ago. 
There are two - one for RT11 and one for the programming environment. 
If you follow them both, you should wind up with a working RT11 v5.3 
with Fortran IV that is capable of building the ADVENT source code 
into a working program. After that you're on your own - I'm not a RT11 
guy or a Fortran guy :)


RT11 note:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-aU9nZm1ETTRfY1U

Fortran and programming environment note:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-bnV1YWpNX0JRczA

Now that my interest is tweaked, I may clean 'em up and post them on 
my blog in a more readable form.


Thanks,

Will

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Ray,

I went through the notes and they worked ok... a few minor glitches, but 
they still worked :). For anyone who wants it, here is a simh pdp11 
rt11v5.3 that has basic, pascal, and fortran iv prepared according to my 
notes:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-M2lMWmtHUVVnUEk

Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] RT-11 disk image

[Will Senn]

On 11/1/17 11:57 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has a pre-built RT-11 with Fortran IV 
installed that they could send. I followed multiple tutorials on 
installing it and I always am unsuccessful. Someone sent me one about 
a year ago but I lost it in a hard drive crash. Any help would be 
greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance

Ray


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Ray,

I am at work, or I'd try to throw an image together for you. I'll look 
at this tonight. In the meantime, I have some notes on how to do it that 
should hold up even though I wrote then a couple of years ago. There are 
two - one for RT11 and one for the programming environment. If you 
follow them both, you should wind up with a working RT11 v5.3 with 
Fortran IV that is capable of building the ADVENT source code into a 
working program. After that you're on your own - I'm not a RT11 guy or a 
Fortran guy :)


RT11 note:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-aU9nZm1ETTRfY1U

Fortran and programming environment note:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-bnV1YWpNX0JRczA

Now that my interest is tweaked, I may clean 'em up and post them on my 
blog in a more readable form.


Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] Unix v7 tty terminals in SimH pdp11

[Will Senn]

OK. Figured it out and updated my instructions to reflect the changes:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1_Jn6Hlzym-Zmx1TjR3TENDQTA

basically in V7:
cd /usr/sys/conf
echo 4dc >> hptmconf
mkconf < hptmconf
make unix
mv unix /munix
ed /etc/ttys
2,5s/./1/
w
q
/etc/mknod /dev/tty00 c 3 0
/etc/mknod /dev/tty01 c 3 1
/etc/mknod /dev/tty02 c 3 2
/etc/mknod /dev/tty03 c 3 3
chmod 640 /dev/tty0?

then in simh.ini
add
set dci en
set dci lines=4
att dci 

then in the host:
telnet localhost  a couple of times from separate terminals

fire it all up and voila, it works. I am always amazed how much time I 
can spend retreading others paths or even roads I've walked before. I'm 
closing the loop here in case somebody finds this thread and can benefit 
from the answer. Figured a lot of this out the hard way, then the rest 
was thanks to Clem Cole and finally, this note summed it up nicely: 
http://a.papnet.eu/UNIX/v7/Installation.


Later,

Will

On 10/14/17 8:56 AM, Will Senn wrote:
Thanks, Johnny. I found my notes on when I did this in V6. I had the 
following in my ini file:

set dci en
set dci lines=8
set dco 7b
att dci 

and when I boot V6 and telnet into it I get this:
telnet localhost 
Trying ::1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.


Connected to the PDP-11 simulator DCI device, line 0


login: dmr
Login incorrect.
Name: root
#

Which is great. I tried the same in V7 after editing /etc/ttys, which 
is different in V7 than V6, having lines like:

14console
00tty00
00tty01

Which I changed to:
14console
10tty00
10tty01

After reboot, no go though. The telnet session is unresponsive.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Will

On 10/14/17 2:14 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
I haven't played with V7, but I assume there must either be an 
/etc/ttys, or something similar, which tells Unix on which terminal 
lines to start a login process at boot. Otherwise they are going to 
be very silent.


Also, remember to hit enter, as they will not spontaneously print out 
a prompt just because you telnet in. They have already printed a 
prompt when the login program started.


  Johnny

On 2017-10-14 06:13, Will Senn wrote:

Hi,

It's been a while since I used SimH pdp11 to do anything beyond boot 
Unix V6/V7 for a single user. I would like to be able to use the V7 
system in multiuser mode with multiple users and I can't quite wrap 
my mind around the problem, so I am asking y'all for help. I am sure 
I'm butchering the discussion as I'm a bit unclear on what device is 
doing what, but ultimately I want to be able to telnet locally to a 
port that the running Unix Version 7 will respond to with a TTY that 
I can log in to. According to the document Setting Up Unix - Seventh 
Edition by Charles B. Haley and Dennis M. Ritchie, V7:


The DC11 driver is set to run 4 lines. This can be changed in dc.c.
The DH11 driver is set to handle 3 DH11's with a full complement of 
48 lines. If you have less, or more, you may want to edit dh.c.

The DN11 driver will handle 4 DN's. Edit dn.c.
The DU11 driver can only handle a single DU. This cannot be easily 
changed.
The KL/DL driver is set up to run a single DL11-A, -B, or -C (the 
console) and no DL11-E's. To change this, edit kl.c to have NKL11 
reflect the total number of DL11-ABC's and NDL11 to reflect the 
number of DL11-E's. So far as the driver is concerned, the 
difference between the devices is their address.


This sounds promising as these seem like terminals to me and each 
has plenty of lines if only I could get simh to serve up the devices 
and attach them to telnet ports, and if Unix will actually provide 
ttys on those devices.


I read the docs and tried adding variations of:

set dli lines=4
attach dli 3633
set dlO0 nodataset
set dlO1 nodataset

to my pdp11 boot.ini file, as well as dc versions of the above and 
and and...


I telneted to port 3633 locally after each reconfiguration, but 
didn't get any unix output on the telnet session.


I appreciate any helpful comments or suggestions.

Thanks,

Will








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Re: [Simh] Unix v7 tty terminals in SimH pdp11

[Will Senn]

Thanks, Johnny. I found my notes on when I did this in V6. I had the 
following in my ini file:

set dci en
set dci lines=8
set dco 7b
att dci 

and when I boot V6 and telnet into it I get this:
telnet localhost 
Trying ::1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.


Connected to the PDP-11 simulator DCI device, line 0


login: dmr
Login incorrect.
Name: root
#

Which is great. I tried the same in V7 after editing /etc/ttys, which is 
different in V7 than V6, having lines like:

14console
00tty00
00tty01

Which I changed to:
14console
10tty00
10tty01

After reboot, no go though. The telnet session is unresponsive.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Will

On 10/14/17 2:14 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
I haven't played with V7, but I assume there must either be an 
/etc/ttys, or something similar, which tells Unix on which terminal 
lines to start a login process at boot. Otherwise they are going to be 
very silent.


Also, remember to hit enter, as they will not spontaneously print out 
a prompt just because you telnet in. They have already printed a 
prompt when the login program started.


  Johnny

On 2017-10-14 06:13, Will Senn wrote:

Hi,

It's been a while since I used SimH pdp11 to do anything beyond boot 
Unix V6/V7 for a single user. I would like to be able to use the V7 
system in multiuser mode with multiple users and I can't quite wrap 
my mind around the problem, so I am asking y'all for help. I am sure 
I'm butchering the discussion as I'm a bit unclear on what device is 
doing what, but ultimately I want to be able to telnet locally to a 
port that the running Unix Version 7 will respond to with a TTY that 
I can log in to. According to the document Setting Up Unix - Seventh 
Edition by Charles B. Haley and Dennis M. Ritchie, V7:


The DC11 driver is set to run 4 lines. This can be changed in dc.c.
The DH11 driver is set to handle 3 DH11's with a full complement of 
48 lines. If you have less, or more, you may want to edit dh.c.

The DN11 driver will handle 4 DN's. Edit dn.c.
The DU11 driver can only handle a single DU. This cannot be easily 
changed.
The KL/DL driver is set up to run a single DL11-A, -B, or -C (the 
console) and no DL11-E's. To change this, edit kl.c to have NKL11 
reflect the total number of DL11-ABC's and NDL11 to reflect the 
number of DL11-E's. So far as the driver is concerned, the difference 
between the devices is their address.


This sounds promising as these seem like terminals to me and each has 
plenty of lines if only I could get simh to serve up the devices and 
attach them to telnet ports, and if Unix will actually provide ttys 
on those devices.


I read the docs and tried adding variations of:

set dli lines=4
attach dli 3633
set dlO0 nodataset
set dlO1 nodataset

to my pdp11 boot.ini file, as well as dc versions of the above and 
and and...


I telneted to port 3633 locally after each reconfiguration, but 
didn't get any unix output on the telnet session.


I appreciate any helpful comments or suggestions.

Thanks,

Will






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[Simh] Unix v7 tty terminals in SimH pdp11

[Will Senn]

Hi,

It's been a while since I used SimH pdp11 to do anything beyond boot 
Unix V6/V7 for a single user. I would like to be able to use the V7 
system in multiuser mode with multiple users and I can't quite wrap my 
mind around the problem, so I am asking y'all for help. I am sure I'm 
butchering the discussion as I'm a bit unclear on what device is doing 
what, but ultimately I want to be able to telnet locally to a port that 
the running Unix Version 7 will respond to with a TTY that I can log in 
to. According to the document Setting Up Unix - Seventh Edition by 
Charles B. Haley and Dennis M. Ritchie, V7:


The DC11 driver is set to run 4 lines. This can be changed in dc.c.
The DH11 driver is set to handle 3 DH11's with a full complement of 48 
lines. If you have less, or more, you may want to edit dh.c.

The DN11 driver will handle 4 DN's. Edit dn.c.
The DU11 driver can only handle a single DU. This cannot be easily changed.
The KL/DL driver is set up to run a single DL11-A, -B, or -C (the 
console) and no DL11-E's. To change this, edit kl.c to have NKL11 
reflect the total number of DL11-ABC's and NDL11 to reflect the number 
of DL11-E's. So far as the driver is concerned, the difference between 
the devices is their address.


This sounds promising as these seem like terminals to me and each has 
plenty of lines if only I could get simh to serve up the devices and 
attach them to telnet ports, and if Unix will actually provide ttys on 
those devices.


I read the docs and tried adding variations of:

set dli lines=4
attach dli 3633
set dlO0 nodataset
set dlO1 nodataset

to my pdp11 boot.ini file, as well as dc versions of the above and and 
and...


I telneted to port 3633 locally after each reconfiguration, but didn't 
get any unix output on the telnet session.


I appreciate any helpful comments or suggestions.

Thanks,

Will


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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Will Senn]

Kilby and TI was only part of the IC story, Fairchild was also part of 
the development:


http://www.computerhistory.org/semiconductor/timeline/1960-FirstIC.html

Will

On 2/27/16 4:59 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:

Calculators I'm thinking of are "HandHeld" and the IC by Jack Kilby.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kilby
1976. The "year the slide rule died" They say.

- Original Message -
*From:* Johnny Billquist 
*To:* simh@trailing-edge.com 
*Sent:* Saturday, February 27, 2016 5:05 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

On 2016-02-27 20:46, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>> On Feb 27, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bill Cunningham
mailto:bill...@suddenlink.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Well that's certainly before ICs I think that was in the 1950s
and it was some early calculators that killed slide rules. What
kind of "processor" were they using? I'm not so sure there was
real HLL before Adm. Hopper. And no binary by Babbge. Do you have
any links or anything from the '40s?
>
> HLL?  I was talking about assembler...  Anyway, I don't believe
COBOL was the first HLL, though it certainly was fairly early.

The first HLL ought to have been FORTRAN. Lisp might have been the
second, but I'm not entirely sure.

I'm not sure what kind of calculators Bill are thinking of. But until
the early 70s, calculators were usually mechanical, or
electromechanical
things with cogwheels, and definitely worked in decimal.
No processors in there...

Johnny

-- 
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus

   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se  ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Will Senn]

Found this in Ritchie's article, "The Development of the C Language":

   Thompson was faced with a hardware environment cramped and spartan
   even for the time: the DEC PDP-7 on which he started in 1968 was a
   machine with 8K 18-bit words of memory and no software useful to
   him. While wanting to use a higher-level language, he wrote the
   original Unix system in PDP-7 assembler. At the start, he did not
   even program on the PDP-7 itself, but instead used a set of macros
   for the GEMAP assembler on a GE-635 machine. A postprocessor
   generated a paper tape readable by the PDP-7.

   These tapes were carried from the GE machine to the PDP-7 for
   testing until a primitive Unix kernel, an editor, an assembler, a
   simple shell (command interpreter), and a few utilities (like the
   Unix rm, cat, cp commands) were completed. After this point, the
   operating system was self-supporting: programs could be written and
   tested without resort to paper tape, and development continued on
   the PDP-7 itself.

   Thompson's PDP-7 assembler outdid even DEC's in simplicity; it
   evaluated expressions and emitted the corresponding bits. There were
   no libraries, no loader or link editor: the entire source of a
   program was presented to the assembler, and the output file—with a
   fixed name—that emerged was directly executable. (This name, a.out,
   explains a bit of Unix etymology; it is the output of the assembler.
   Even after the system gained a linker and a means of specifying
   another name explicitly, it was retained as the default executable
   result of a compilation.)

So, they didn't use DEC's assembler, but they used GE's?

Interesting stuff.

Will
On 2/26/16 6:26 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
If you were used to building your own tools, you might not.  Also if 
you are bootstrapping from something else (like a large timesharing 
system from another manufacturer).   You might put your tools on the 
other system, until the new system could "self host."


We do the same things today.

Clem

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Will Senn <mailto:will.s...@gmail.com>> wrote:




Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 26, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Nigel Williams
mailto:n...@retrocomputingtasmania.com>> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Johnny Billquist
mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
>> On 2016-02-26 23:47, Eric Smith wrote:
>>>> On Feb 25, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Gregg Levine
mailto:gregg.drw...@gmail.com>
>>>> <mailto:gregg.drw...@gmail.com
<mailto:gregg.drw...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Version Zero was hand coded on a PDP-7
>>>
>>>
>>> I know Gregg is right.  But .. Can you /imagine?/
>> Not sure I understand this comment either. Are you suggesting
that coding an
>> OS is assembler is something exceptional or complicated, or
unusual?
>
> I took "hand-coded" to mean Version Zero was (initially) done
without
> an assembler, they wrote down the instructions in machine code.
>
> Perhaps not unusual for the 1960s but laborious none-the-less.
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I don't understand this. The PDP 7 had an assembler and debugger.
Wouldn't they have used the assembler to generate the bootstrap
system?
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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Will Senn]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 26, 2016, at 5:28 PM, Nigel Williams  
> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
>> On 2016-02-26 23:47, Eric Smith wrote:
 On Feb 25, 2016, at 9:26 PM, Gregg Levine >>> > wrote:
 
 Version Zero was hand coded on a PDP-7
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I know Gregg is right.  But .. Can you /imagine?/
>> Not sure I understand this comment either. Are you suggesting that coding an
>> OS is assembler is something exceptional or complicated, or unusual?
> 
> I took "hand-coded" to mean Version Zero was (initially) done without
> an assembler, they wrote down the instructions in machine code.
> 
> Perhaps not unusual for the 1960s but laborious none-the-less.
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I don't understand this. The PDP 7 had an assembler and debugger. Wouldn't they 
have used the assembler to generate the bootstrap system? 
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Re: [Simh] pdp11 and unix

[Will Senn]

Bill,

There is plenty of documentation on the pdp11 45/70. Start with the 
handbooks:

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp11/handbooks/

As for programming in assembly, most of the documentation is for DEC 
OS's. However, the manuals for Unix v6 and v7 had assembly sections. 
They are available here:


Assembler Reference Manual from Sixth Edition Manual (postscript):
http://wwwlehre.dhbw-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/as.ps

Section Assembler Reference Manual in Vol 2b of V7 Manual (pdf):
http://web.cuzuco.com/~cuzuco/v7/v7vol2b.pdf

Dep is for "depositing" values into the simulator's PDP memory space.

- Will

On 2/25/16 6:50 PM, Bill Cunningham wrote:
When Ken Thompson coded UNIX it was in assembly. The first 
versions anyway before B/NB/C. Is there in existance pdp11 (45 or 70 
?) intterupt (vector) lists or IRQs and so, registers that shows how 
to code in assembly on a pdp11? I am sure simh does it. Isn't what the 
"dep" command is for?

Bill


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Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Will Senn]

Thanks or persisting. Now I see what you mean. This is great. I had no 
idea that interactive examine could be used this way. So, basically ie 
-m examines the memory that you specify and allows you to change it, 
with assembly language instruction mnemonics no less, who'd of thunk it!


id -m works too:
sim> id -m 0-16
0:inc 177560
4:tstb 177560
10:bpl 4
12:movb 177562,r0
16:halt
sim> g 0

HALT instruction, PC: 20 (HALT)
sim>

SimH is a pretty amazing tool. It works great as a debugger, too.

Thanks,

Will

On 2/20/16 3:43 PM, Kevin Handy wrote:
You also have the option of running on the "bare" metal of the simh 
emulator.


PDP-11 simulator V3.8-1
sim> ie -m 0-16
0:HALTinc 177560
4:HALTtstb 177560
10:HALTbpl 4
12:HALTmovb 177562,r0
16:HALThalt
sim> run 0

HALT instruction, PC: 20 (HALT)
sim>

Used halt instead of ,exit because not macro library here.

You also have "macro11" in simtools to assemble things. Don't know if 
there is any way to feed its output directlt into simh though.



On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Paul Koning <mailto:paulkon...@comcast.net>> wrote:



> On Feb 20, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Will Senn mailto:will.s...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Great answer and helpful. I'll give both approaches a shot. If I
understand my environment correctly, RT-11 is single user, single
job (well, most of the time anyway). So, it oughta be safe enough
to try this without messing things up beyond needing to restart if
I have logic errors? That is, the file system isn't involved or
caching or anything that would cause inconsistency as a result of
an infinite loop or crash? Not that I would ever code such things :)!

RT comes in several flavors, of which I know the SJ and FB
(foreground/background) flavors, V2 specifically. Both are
unprotected operating systems, so you can play with I/O devices at
will.

Also, in those there definitely is no caching in the file system. 
For that matter, the file structure is simple enough that there

really isn't anything to go "inconsistent".  A crash in
mid-operation might cause a file not to be there if it was being
written, but that's about it.  The only exception I can think of
is the file system defrag operation, but then again that one may
be written in a fault tolerant manner, I don't know.

paul


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Re: [Simh] examine octal and ascii in SimH

[Will Senn]

On 2/20/16 11:26 AM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Will Senn wrote:

On Feb 20, 2016, at 10:53 AM, Paul Koning 


What Paul was saying is that how the examine command is displayed is up to 
details implemented in individual simulators, but that there is some attempt to 
have switches which mean the same thing from one simulator to another.  See:
 sim> HELP EXAMINE SWITCHES
Beyond the standard switches, the PDP11 simulator interprets the -B switch to 
mean display bytes since the machine, although byte addressable, is a word 
oriented machine.  See: doc/pdp11_doc.doc for more details as well.

- Mark

Mark,

Thanks. I appreciate the clarification. The -B switch works fine, I 
really appreciate the tip, but it doesn't appear to be documented that I 
can tell. Here's what help says:


PDP-11 Commands Examining and Changing State Subtopic? switches

Switches
Switches can be used to control the format of display information:

-a display as ASCII
-c display as character string
-m display as instruction mnemonics
-o display as octal
-d display as decimal
-h display as hexadecimal

And I don't see it in pdp11_doc.doc either. I checked the latest git 
version as well.


Thanks,

Will


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Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Will Senn]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:00 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:58 PM, Will Senn  wrote:
>> 
>> Given the following test program that I wrote (GETC.MAC):
>> 
>>  .title getc
>> 
>>   .mcall.exit
>> 
>> TKS = 177560
>> TKB = 177562
>> ;TPS = 177564
>> ;TPB = 177566
>> 
>> begin:
>>   incTKS;set the ASR read enable bit
>> getc:
>>   tstbTKS;is a character available?
>>   bplgetc;loop until there is
>> 
>>   movbTKB,R0;put the character into register 0
>> 
>>   .exit
>> 
>>   .end begin
>> 
>> I would expect the console to wait until I typed a single character and then 
>> for the program to exit. What is happening is that the program appears to 
>> accept any number of characters and only ends when I type CTRL-C twice.
>> 
>> Here are some questions that arise:
>> 
>> 1. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to read directly from the ASR 
>> Keyboard buffer while running RT-11 in SimH or does this somehow compete 
>> with the running OS? (I can print characters using the ASR Punch Buffer just 
>> fine)
> 
> No, that is not reasonable.  Not without extra work.  You're messing with a 
> device that has already been set up by the terminal driver.
> 
> When running in kernel mode, as you are in RT11, you can definitely get 
> around this, but it requires more work. Specifically, you'd have to disable 
> terminal interrupts so the appearance of a character doesn't wake up the 
> driver.  For best results, you would also have to restore the terminal CSRs 
> on exit so the terminal driver is given control again.
> 
> Alternatively, you could block out interrupts by raising the processor 
> priority, then lowering it back to 0 before exit.  That works because 
> interrupts are level sensitive in PDP11s (as they are in all sane interrupt 
> architectures), so the fetching of the received character will cancel the 
> interrupt request, which means that lowering the priority just before the 
> .exit will have the right result (no interrup to confuse the driver).
> 
>paul
> 

Great answer and helpful. I'll give both approaches a shot. If I understand my 
environment correctly, RT-11 is single user, single job (well, most of the time 
anyway). So, it oughta be safe enough to try this without messing things up 
beyond needing to restart if I have logic errors? That is, the file system 
isn't involved or caching or anything that would cause inconsistency as a 
result of an infinite loop or crash? Not that I would ever code such things :)!

Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] examine octal and ascii in SimH

[Will Senn]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 10:53 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Will Senn  wrote:
>> 
>> In SimH:
>> 
>> It is possible to display bytes in ASCII form:
>> sim> e -c 1032-1034
>> 1032:AB
>> 1034:C<000>
>> 
>> It is also possible to display words in octal:
>> sim> e 1032-1034
>> 1032:041101
>> 1034:000103
>> 
>> Is it possible to display bytes in octal, or bytes in both ASCII and Octal 
>> at the same time?
>> 1032 101 A
>> 1033 102 B
>> 1034 103 C
>> 1035 000 NUL
>> 
>> or even just the octal bytes themselves?:
>> 1032 101
>> 1033 102
>> 1034 103
>> 1035 000
> 
> For all these, the answer is: that's up to the individual CPU emulation.  
> Some do, some do not.  The switches used to request this are fairly 
> consistent.  You might try "e -o 1234" for example, and that may work.  Or 
> not...  
> 
> If you want it but it isn't there, you can of course add it.
> 
>paul
> 
> 

Hmm. It does words not bytes in pdp-11. As for modding the sim - I'm a ways 
from being comfortable doing that just yet :)
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[Simh] examine octal and ascii in SimH

[Will Senn]

In SimH:

It is possible to display bytes in ASCII form:
sim> e -c 1032-1034
1032:AB
1034:C<000>

It is also possible to display words in octal:
sim> e 1032-1034
1032:041101
1034:000103

Is it possible to display bytes in octal, or bytes in both ASCII and 
Octal at the same time?

1032 101 A
1033 102 B
1034 103 C
1035 000 NUL

or even just the octal bytes themselves?:
1032 101
1033 102
1034 103
1035 000

Thanks,

Will


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Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Will Senn]

I thought I would close the loop with a recipe that works for doing bare 
metal work:


First, the revised "program":
.title getc

TKS = 177560
TKB = 177562
;TPS = 177564
;TPB = 177566

begin:
incTKS;set the ASR to input
getc:
tstbTKS;is a character available on the ASR?
bplgetc;loop until there is

movbTKB,R0;put the character into register 0

halt

.end begin

In RT-11, edit and save the program:
.edit/create vol:getc.mac

Compile it:
.r macro
*VOL:getc,VOL:getc/L:TTM/C:C:E:M:P:R:S=VOL:getc.mac

Type the listing if you like:
.type vol:getc.lst

Link it with /lda for an absolute binary that starts at location 1000.
.link vol:getc/map:vol:getc/lda

Look at the map to confirm:
.type vol:getc.map

RT-11 LINK  V08.10 Load Map   Page 1
GETC  .LDA   Title:GETC  Ident:

Section  AddrSizeGlobalValueGlobal ValueGlobalValue

 . ABS. 00001000 = 256.   words (RW,I,GBL,ABS,OVR)
  00100020 = 8. words  (RW,I,LCL,REL,CON)

Transfer address = 001000, High limit = 001016 = 263. words

Suspend RT-11
CTRL-E

In SimH, attach the lda file to the paper tape punch:
sim>att ptp getc.lda

Resume RT-11
sim>c

Back in RT-11, copy the lda file to the PC: device:
copy getc.lda pc:

Halt RT-11:
CTRL-E
sim>q

Fire up pdp11:
pdp11

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 9c977e93

In SimH, load the absolute address binary and run it from location 1000:
sim> load getc.lda
sim> g 1000

Press a key, any key and try to remember what you pressed (type 'A'):
A
HALT instruction, PC: 001020 (HALT)

Examine the contents of register 0:
sim> e r0
R0:000101

101 is the ASCII code for 'A' in Octal .

Thanks all for the hints and suggestions.

Will

On 2/19/16 4:01 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:

The console terminal driver won't like you touching the device registers.

Don't do that.  Use the RT-11 syscalls instead.

Or load your program into the (emulated) bare hardware, and have fun.

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 19-Feb-16 16:58, Will Senn wrote:

Given the following test program that I wrote (GETC.MAC):

.title getc

 .mcall.exit

TKS = 177560
TKB = 177562
;TPS = 177564
;TPB = 177566

begin:
 incTKS;set the ASR read enable bit
getc:
 tstbTKS;is a character available?
 bplgetc;loop until there is

 movbTKB,R0;put the character into register 0

 .exit

 .end begin

I would expect the console to wait until I typed a single character
and then for the program to exit. What is happening is that the
program appears to accept any number of characters and only ends when
I type CTRL-C twice.

Here are some questions that arise:

1. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to read directly from the ASR
Keyboard buffer while running RT-11 in SimH or does this somehow
compete with the running OS? (I can print characters using the ASR
Punch Buffer just fine)
2. Is there a flaw in the program? (Nevermind that it doesn't do
anything much with the character).
3. Is this a totally abnormal way to read a character?
4. What's up with needing to hit CTRL-C twice?

Answers to any of the above would be appreciated or if you have
something else, that's fine too.

Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Will Senn]

Timothe,

Thanks for responding. This sounds reasonable. I'm ok with using the 
.TTYOU and .TTYIN macros which call EMT's for actual programs in RT-11. 
But, while learning, there are some things like this that I want to do 
that may be tricky/ill advised to do in RT-11.


What do you think the easiest way is to load a program like this 
directly onto the bare hardware (simulated, of course)?


Thanks,

Will


On 2/19/16 4:01 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:

The console terminal driver won't like you touching the device registers.

Don't do that.  Use the RT-11 syscalls instead.

Or load your program into the (emulated) bare hardware, and have fun.

This communication may not represent my employer's views,
if any, on the matters discussed.

On 19-Feb-16 16:58, Will Senn wrote:

Given the following test program that I wrote (GETC.MAC):

.title getc

 .mcall.exit

TKS = 177560
TKB = 177562
;TPS = 177564
;TPB = 177566

begin:
 incTKS;set the ASR read enable bit
getc:
 tstbTKS;is a character available?
 bplgetc;loop until there is

 movbTKB,R0;put the character into register 0

 .exit

 .end begin

I would expect the console to wait until I typed a single character
and then for the program to exit. What is happening is that the
program appears to accept any number of characters and only ends when
I type CTRL-C twice.

Here are some questions that arise:

1. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to read directly from the ASR
Keyboard buffer while running RT-11 in SimH or does this somehow
compete with the running OS? (I can print characters using the ASR
Punch Buffer just fine)
2. Is there a flaw in the program? (Nevermind that it doesn't do
anything much with the character).
3. Is this a totally abnormal way to read a character?
4. What's up with needing to hit CTRL-C twice?

Answers to any of the above would be appreciated or if you have
something else, that's fine too.

Thanks,

Will
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[Simh] Reading directly from console in RT-11

[Will Senn]

Given the following test program that I wrote (GETC.MAC):

   .title getc

.mcall.exit

TKS = 177560
TKB = 177562
;TPS = 177564
;TPB = 177566

begin:
incTKS;set the ASR read enable bit
getc:
tstbTKS;is a character available?
bplgetc;loop until there is

movbTKB,R0;put the character into register 0

.exit

.end begin

I would expect the console to wait until I typed a single character and 
then for the program to exit. What is happening is that the program 
appears to accept any number of characters and only ends when I type 
CTRL-C twice.


Here are some questions that arise:

1. Is it reasonable to expect to be able to read directly from the ASR 
Keyboard buffer while running RT-11 in SimH or does this somehow compete 
with the running OS? (I can print characters using the ASR Punch Buffer 
just fine)
2. Is there a flaw in the program? (Nevermind that it doesn't do 
anything much with the character).

3. Is this a totally abnormal way to read a character?
4. What's up with needing to hit CTRL-C twice?

Answers to any of the above would be appreciated or if you have 
something else, that's fine too.


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] RT-11 Storage Strategy

[Will Senn]

On 2/17/16 5:38 AM, Timothe Litt wrote:

.

I put accurate timing options into card and printer devices a while
back, and the effect is dramatic.
1,000 LPM from a printer is noisy and you see the paper flying by.  But
some quick math reminds
us that a typical 55 line page means 18 pages/min, so your 100 page
listing takes about 5 1/2 minutes
to print.  If you're the first job in a queue.



Timothe,

As far as I can tell, the PDP-11 I'm running is as fast as the Macbook 
Pro I'm running it on and I like it that way :). 5 1/2 minutes for a 
listing? Ouch.


Will
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Re: [Simh] RT-11 Storage Strategy

[Will Senn]

On 2/17/16 5:18 AM, Henry Bent wrote:


Hi Will,

I know that this isn't quite what you were asking, but on my real 
11/23 running RT-11 I have four RL02s (well, a Dilog DQ614 and an MFM 
disk emulating four RL02s) and that is more than enough storage for my 
purposes.  In addition, if you know that you aren't going to need all 
of a physical disk for a specific purpose, you can just mount a disk 
image as a logical disk.  For example, I have CDISK.DSK and TCPIP.DSK 
on DL2:, and those images are mounted as C: and TCP:.


SIMH allows for four RL02s at 10MB each and eight RK05s at 5MB each, 
so there's no difference in total storage.  As far as I'm concerned 
it's somewhat more convenient to have a smaller number of larger 
capacity disks.  If you need a full 80MB of storage I don't see why 
you couldn't use both controllers/disks.  You could also use RD5[1-4] 
disks (DUx: to RT-11, the RQ controller in SIMH) if you really need 
more space, though I believe RT-11 is limited to 32MB on a single 
filesystem so you would have to partition the larger disks.


My understanding is that there is not a "preferred" disk controller or 
type under SIMH.  I have found that for an emulated Ultrix system, 
running off of an RD54 is noticeably faster than running off of RL02s, 
but on a reasonably fast host system you probably won't notice the 
difference under RT-11.


My final note is: if you're curious about something, just try it!  
Make a backup of your current working system and then go wild.  That's 
the fun of SIMH. Want to see if RT-11 will recognize an RA82?  Or 
sixteen RC25s?  Does RT-11 work with a TU56 DECtape?  I have no idea 
what the answer to any of those questions is, but I know how to find out.


-Henry

Henry, Ha! After I wrote my note, I went off and tried a bunch of 
configurations. After reading your note, I realized that the two 622.9 
MB RA82's I created may be overkill :). I think I'll go back to using 
RL02's for system and storage disks and use RK05's or disk images for my 
programming language disks. I totally forgot about disk images.


Thanks,

Will


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[Simh] RT-11 Storage Strategy

[Will Senn]

All,

The array of simulated disks available to simh is a little confusing to 
wade through. I tend to use RL02 and RK05, but really, I don't have a 
solid rationale for one over the other. In RT-11 these are available 
when attached, so their what I use. I'm hoping someone can offer some 
more informed storage advice/strategy.


Here are some questions to get the juices flowing:

In SimH with a PDP-11 running RT-11:

* Is there a preferred disk controller/device?
* Is there a controller that supports more disk devices than another (RL 
vs RK, etc)?
* Does one device have more capacity than another (either via single 
disk raw capacity or via overall capacity of attached units)?

* Is one device/controller more reliable in SimH than another?
* Do disks need to be formatted before initializing?
* Are there some known best practice configurations (so many RL 
controller, with so many drives, or so many RL and so many RK, etc.)?


Here's where I'm coming from as background. I have been studying 
Macro-11 programming in RT-11. I save all of my files on a storage disk 
that is separate from the SY: volume (DK:, etc.). I have found working 
Pascal, BASIC, and FORTRAN distributions that can be installed. Rather 
than installing them into SY:, It seems reasonable to attach a disk, 
assign the disk a logical name, and copy each distribution onto its own 
vol, something along the lines of SY:, PAS:, BAS:, FOR:, and MAC:, with 
5 disks attached. But, before I headed down this road, I thought I would 
get some advice.


Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for responding with your sage 
advice :).


Regards,

Will
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Re: [Simh] What is CDC OS?

[Will Senn]

On 2/16/16 3:04 PM, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote:

Will Senn  asks on the list on Tue, 16 Feb 2016
12:47:12 -0600 about CDC operating systems.

I worked quite happily on a CDC 6400 from 1973 to 1977.  Initially, we
had the SCOPE operating system, and later, KRONOS.  The latter was,
from our viewpoint, a step back, because it had a flat file system
that in our case had to serve our entire campus.  As a result, we had
to adopt prefixes that encoded the department name and user name on
all filenames.

For its time, the CDC 6400 (and its bigger brothers, the 6600 and
7600) was quite fast.  It had interactive access, and a Unix-top-like
process display that you could run without logging in.

My previous machines were IBM and Amdahl mainframes that were only
accessible with batch jobs submitted on punched cards: for a long
time, users at that university were forbidden from storing files on
disks.  We solved that in our research group by renting our own IBM
2311 disk drive, and buying eventually a dozen or so removable disks.
According to Wikipedia,


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_IBM_magnetic_disk_drives#IBM_2311

those disks with six LP-record-sized platters held about 7MB.  I did
hundreds of mounts of those disks myself.

The interactive features of the CDC 6400 had a huge beneficial impact
on my software productivity, compared to my previous batch
environment, and I regret that I have yet to find a CDC [67]x00
simulator with either SCOPE or Kronos.  I have one that boots up to
ROM level, but cannot get further with it.

The CDC machines had a small instruction set (64 different opcodes).
All integer arithmetic was done with floating-point instructions,
which offered both rounding and truncating modes.  The
integer-to-float-to-integer conversion meant that integers were
effectively limited to 48 bits of data stored in a 60-bit word.  There
were 18-bit An and Bn (n = 0..7) registers, and associated 60-bit Xn
registers.  A0 and X0 were scratch registers.  Loading an address into
A1 through A5 loaded a word from that memory word address into X1
through X5.  Putting an address in A6 or A7 stored the word in X6 or
X7.  All instruction mnemonics have hard-coded register names, so
there was no reasonable possibility of a macro language that could
usefully give symbolic names to registers.

The CDC floating-point arithmetic had both Indefinite and Infinity:
they were the inspiration for NaN and Infinity in IEEE 754 arithmetic
on almost all new post-1985 machine designs.

One nice feature of Indefinite was that with a job-control statement
immediately before your job, you could initialize all memory words to
Indefinite, with the word's address in the lower 18 bits.  Then, if
you accidentally used an uninitialized variable, you got a
floating-point exception, and the traceback showed where it came from,
and thus, which variable was unset.  We used that feature heavily, and
only a few modern systems provide something similar.

The address space was 2**18 = 262_144 words, and each process had a
contiguous block.  All physical addresses were computed dynamically
from the sum of a job base address and a relative-to-0 address, so the
O/S could slide entire jobs around in memory to achieve optimal
packing.  You could, and we did, adjust the process upper bound
dynamically during execution to free core memory for others.

The CDC [67]x00 family CPUs have no interrupts: instead, there are
several peripheral processors (PP's) that interface to external
devices such as disks and serial terminal lines.  The PP's are 12-bit
computers, each with 4096 words of memory. They communicate with the
main CPU by monitoring a couple of privileged memory locations that
hold data for a device operation.  At our site, the PPs were never
accessible to end users, so no one outside the computer center ever
knew their instruction set.

Niklaus Wirth and Urs Ammann have interesting, and sometimes negative,
comments about the CDC 6600 on which they developed the first Pascal
implementation.  Like Fortran and the IBM 709, and C and the DEC
PDP-11, the Pascal language also contains several influences of the
CDC 6600 architecture, although Wirth tried as much as possible to
hide the hardware from the programmer.

Here are some literature references about those machines, and early
Pascal:

papers: James E. Thornton
The CDC 6600 Project
http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/MAHC.1980.10044

Niklaus Wirth
The Design of a PASCAL Compiler
http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/spe.4380010403

Urs Ammann
On Code Generation in a PASCAL Compiler
http://dx.doi.org/10.1002/spe.4380070311

book:   James E. Thornton
Design of a Computer: the Control Data 6600
Scott, Foresman (1970)
LCCN TK7889.C6 T5 1970

Thornton was part of the 6600 architecture team.

---
- Nelson H. F. Beebe

[Simh] DBG-11 on RT-11

[Will Senn]

All,

Does anyone know where the bits for DBG-11 for RT-11 v5+ reside? I found 
an ancient post on alt.sys.pdp11 referring to an extant version Y01.16.


If I understand the docs correctly, the files that represent the 
debugger are:


SDH.SYS, SDS.SYS, SDHX.SYS, or SDSX.SYS

There's some discussion about mapped/unmapped monitors. I use the XM 
monitor, but can also run FB or SJ as needed.


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] What is CDC OS?

[Will Senn]

Thanks Clem and I agree with Bill's quip - greatness.

On 2/16/16 1:01 PM, Clem Cole wrote:


On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Clem Cole > wrote:


However, the book has some programs that claim to take advantage
of the CDC OS and utilize a card reader.

​Yup, IMO, part of why Pascal I/O was dorked was because he used the 
read/write semantics of the CDC systems.   It very screwy and simple 
in nature.  Don't expect much.


It's been a while since I used them, but my memory is that the Kronos, 
NOS and SCOPE all used the same semantics for batch programs.   I 
never ran COS or MACE.


I still know a couple of folks that might remember - Tektronix had two 
CDC systems (1) and I one of my old colleagues from those days that 
was a programmer for the CDC Center(2), I'm working with again.  If 
you have specific questions send them to me off list and I'll see if I 
can get you in contact.


Clem

1) As I have mentioned I helped to write the original IP/TCP 
implementation for VMS, besides our 11/70 running Unix.  The other 
side of that link was these CDC systems.


2) In one of my favorite all time quotes that I wish I had said.  Bill 
Price who had been one of the B5000 designers and was then working 
with us in Tek Labs when the Tek CDC team was renamed from the 
"Scientific Computer Center" to the "Computer Science Center".  Bill 
hears this and quips:  "That's like calling a strip mine and 
archeology dig."


​




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[Simh] What is CDC OS?

[Will Senn]

Hi,

I'm reading a book (among many such books) that is entitled, "A Primer 
on PASCAL," by Richard Conway, David Gries, and E. C. Zimmerman, written 
in 1976 with a Foreward by Niklaus Wirth. The book has a lot of PASCAL 
examples that run just fine on my PDP-11/70 with RT-11 or RSX-11, or... 
you get the idea. However, the book has some programs that claim to take 
advantage of the CDC OS and utilize a card reader. The author refers to 
the operating system as "The CDC OS" as if it were singular and obvious, 
but doesn't speak of hardware beyond the card reader. I looked and found 
references to Control Data Corporation's COS, SCOPE, MACE, KRONOS,  and 
NOS, but have no idea if these are "The CDC OS"...


Does anyone know what "The CDC OS" would refer to and what hardware it 
would run on (hopefully simulated).


Regards,

Will
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Re: [Simh] SIMH VAXcluster on Raspberry Pi - some crucial files

[Will Senn]

Thanks for the notes, Wilm. It may be a while before I put 'em to use, 
but they are in my archive now!


On 2/16/16 1:18 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote:
Below, as promised, some crucial files that I used to bring up my 
PiCluster. YMMV.
You could meke all Pi's and VAXen in the cluster identical, just 
changing node names and network (MAC,DECnet,IP) addresses.


/Wilm

= Raspbina wheezy/jessie /etc/rc.local =

#!/bin/sh -e
# This script is executed at the end of each multiuser runlevel.

exec 2> /var/log/rc.local.log   # stderr to logfile
exec 1>&2   # stdout as well
set -x  # set verify :-)

# get current IP params
HOSTIP=`ifconfig eth0 | grep "inet addr" | gawk -- '{ print $2 }' | 
gawk -F : -- '{ print $2 }'`
HOSTNETMASK=`ifconfig eth0 | grep "inet addr" | gawk -- '{ print $4 }' 
| gawk -F : -- '{ print $2 }'`
HOSTBCASTADDR=`ifconfig eth0 | grep "inet addr" | gawk -- '{ print $3 
}' | gawk -F : -- '{ print $2 }'`

HOSTDEFAULTGATEWAY=`route -n | grep ^0.0.0.0 | gawk -- '{ print $2 }'`

# Make tun/tap
tunctl -t tap0 -u root
ifconfig tap0 up

# Now convert eth0 to a bridge and bridge it with the eth0 interface
brctl addbr br0
brctl addif br0 eth0
brctl setfd br0 0
ifconfig eth0 0.0.0.0

# fix bridge MACaddress
ifconfig br0 hw ether 08:00:2B:02:02:02
# start bridge
ifconfig br0 $HOSTIP netmask $HOSTNETMASK broadcast $HOSTBCASTADDR up

# set the default route to the br0 interface
route add -net 0.0.0.0/0 gw $HOSTDEFAULTGATEWAY

# bridge in the tap device
brctl addif br0 tap0
ifconfig tap0 0.0.0.0

# load kernel variables from /etc/sysctl.d 
(https://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections)

/etc/init.d/procps restart

# mount NAS stuff
mount -t nfs ODSW48-NAS.local:/shares/Netwerk /mnt/nas

# Start a VAX, Big Brother VAXcluster master member
screen -admO -S vaxclus -t VAXcluster -h 4096 /opt/simh-master/BIN/vax 
/opt/simh-master/vaxclus.ini

sleep 2
screen -ls

exit 0

= simh raspi2.ini =
; for simh V4.0 github (simh-master.zip)
echo-
echoVAXserver 3900 512MB
echo  Big Brother
echo-
echo

; unused devices:
set lpt disable
set rl disable
set ts disable

; ka655x is built-in

att nvr /opt/simh-master/BIN/nvram.bin

set cpu 512M conhalt idle=VMS
set rom nodelay
set qba autoconfig

; DZ11 listen on port 1 for TTA0-TTA3
echo DZ11 --> TTAn:
set dz enable
set dz lines=4
att dz 1

; DUA controller
set rq0 autosize
set rq1 autosize
set rq2 autosize
att -e rq0 /vdisk/VMSV73.vdisk
att -e rq1 /vdisk/VXTOOLS.vdisk
att -e rq2 /vdisk/PAK.vdisk
set rq3 disable

; file transfer
set cr enable
set cr autoeof
att -a cr /mnt/nas/xfer.txt
set cr translation=029
sho cr

; MUA tape ctrl
set tq tk70
att -e tq /vtape/MUA0.vtape
set tq1 disable
set tq2 disable
set tq3 disable
sho tq

; Ethernet
set xq mac=08:00:2B:19:02:54
att xq tap:tap0

set cpu noautoboot

echo
echo--
echoType "b[oot] cpu" to start the VAX
echo--
echo
;boot cpu

= VAX/VMS V7.3 MODPARAMS.DAT =

STARTUP_P2  = "CD"

SCSNODE = "PIVAX2"
SCSSYSTEMID = 2*1024 + 49 ! DECnet 2.49

VAXCLUSTER  =   1
MSCP_LOAD   =   1
MSCP_SERVE_ALL  =   1
NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 =   1
INTERCONNECT= "NI"
BOOTNODE= "YES"

ALLOCLASS   =  49
TAPE_ALLOCLASS  = 249

MAXPROCESSCNT   =32 ! to keep demand on various resources low

MIN_INTSTKPAGES =16 ! for TCPIP

! Generic tuning:

MIN_CHANNELCNT  =   255
MIN_ERRORLOGBUFFERS =14
MIN_GBLSECTIONS =   520
MIN_GBLPAGES= 3

! DECwindows:

MIN_PQL_MPGFLQUOTA = 32768
MIN_PQL_MASTLM =   100
MIN_PQL_MBIOLM =   100
MIN_PQL_MDIOLM =   100
MIN_PQL_MFILLM =   100
MIN_PQL_MBYTLM =10
MIN_PQL_MPRCLM =10
MIN_PQL_MENQLM =   300
!MIN_GH_RES_CODE=  1584 (Alpha ony)

! for copying into OPA0:

MIN_MAXBUF = 16384
TTY_TYPAHDSZ   =   512
TTY_ALTYPAHD   =  8192

! for BACKUP

MIN_WSMAX   = 5
MIN_PQL_MFILLM  =   300
MIN_PQL_MWSQUOTA= 32768
MIN_PQL_MDIOLM  =   100
!
! see HELP /MESS DME
!
MIN_PIOPAGES=  2048
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[Simh] VAX/VMS

[Will Senn]

What is a good source to learn a bit about VAX/VMS and the relationship of the 
VAX and PDP-11 architectures and programming differences? I looked at the 
Wikipedia article. I'm not sure it is entirely accurate and it is sketchy on 
particulars.

Also, can the Vax run v6 or v7?

Thanks,

Will


Sent from my iPhone


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Simh] simh on RaspBerry Pi

[Will Senn]

On 2/15/16 8:01 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote:

Will Senn schreef op 15-2-2016 om 14:26

[snip]

Are you documenting the setup process for your endeavors, or just 
blogging about the result? I think it would be interesting to see how 
you clustered those Pi Vaxen as much as to know it was possible. I've 
got a few Pi around looking for something to cluster around...

There are three parts to a successful setup:

1. Since each Pi has only one Ethernet interface, make sure you use a
   wired connection (wireless isn't real Ethernet) and the tun/tap
   setup on the Raspbian Linux host. This is well documented in the
   github simh docs. This will leave you with access to your LAN
   from/to the Linux host, as well as a "separate" tap0 device for the
   VAX/VMS guest.
2. Build your VAX of choice. My three cluster members are a VAXserver
   3900, a MicroVAX 3900 (same "vax" build for simh) and a 16MB
   MicroVAX II ("microvax2" build). The latter because I wanted to see
   whether the MicroVAX II could be configured with TCP/IP at all. The
   build process and its options are -again- well documented in the
   simh docs.
3. Deploy your VMS OS, configure DECnet and TCP/IP and use the
   CLUSTER_CONFIG DCL command procedure to first create the cluster
   "master", and then add the satellites. CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM is sort of
   self-documenting.

I used the V4.0 standard github sources to build, and VAX/VMS V7.3 to 
deploy the cluster. Some Pi's run Raspbian Wheezy, some run Jessie. It 
varies along with my mood and the phase of the moon.


As soon as I get home again (may be in a few days), I can post the 
simh ini file(s), my /etc/rc.local which implements the tun/tap stuff, 
as well as VMS MODPARAMS.DAT. That is as far as I will go in 
documenting. Making it work and stumbling along was part of the fun. 
It is my way to teach myself Linux. VMS, I know of old.


/Wilm


Thanks. I look forward to seeing the .ini's and rc.local, etc. I come at 
it the other way around. I know Linux/Mac OS X/FreeBSD quite well, but 
know next to nothing about VMS (I know a bit about VAX because of its 
relationship to PDP-11, which I've been studying pretty relentlessly). I 
have a hobbyist license for OpenVMS, but I'm unclear if that's the same 
OS you are referring to?


Regards,
Will
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Re: [Simh] simh on RaspBerry Pi

[Will Senn]

On 2/15/16 2:47 AM, Wilm Boerhout wrote:

Please check out my post on running a VAXcluster on Raspberry Pi's

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/vaxcluster-raspberry-pi-wilm-boerhout

/Wilm
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Wilm,

Are you documenting the setup process for your endeavors, or just 
blogging about the result? I think it would be interesting to see how 
you clustered those Pi Vaxen as much as to know it was possible. I've 
got a few Pi around looking for something to cluster around...


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] SIMH and physical hardware

[Will Senn]

On 2/9/16 11:41 PM, Zachary Kline wrote:

This is around 50% humorous, but it’s still a thing I’ve been thinking about 
lately. From a newbie’s perspective, all SIMH machines are very similar. The 
worst thing about emulation is that the “feel,” of the original hardware 
doesn’t seem to be there. Simh can emulate tons of hardware from different 
manufacturers, but none of that will tell me what it was like to actually use 
the devices in a physical sense.
As a blind user, I’m doubly interested in this kind of physicality because I 
experience the world through touch and sound. I have little conception of the 
shape or size of many of these notional machines, and they are all reduced to 
various abstractions at a console prompt. It’s hard to imagine a thing I was 
far too young to experience.
I was reminded of an Apple II emulator I saw once, sadly not accessible, which 
made the appropriate disk drive noises in use. Its kind of useless from a  
practical standpoint, but a lot of my interest in these machines isn’t 
practical to begin with. I want to explore an earlier kind of computing, but 
don’t expect to get a job with it or have anything beyond some entertainment.
I really don’t know what, if anything, can be done to bridge this weird 
disconnect. Actual hardware is probably gradually fading out, and in any case 
probably wouldn’t be accessible from my perspective anyway.

Any thoughts? Apologies for the disjointed post, it’s rather late. ;)
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Zach,

I feel much the same way. I'm old enough to potentially have worked with 
these computers. But, I didn't and for about the first 6 months or so, I 
had a heck of a time imagining what an RK05, or an ASR33 were and this 
was incredible frustrating, really. I thought an RK05 was something like 
a cd changer, with disks and an ASR33 was like an IBM selectric 
typewriter. Neither conception was that far off, but after I saw and 
heard them in action, my imaginings became a whole lot more accurate and 
useful for my current exploration with the simulator. Even so, you talk 
about hearing these in operation. Again, what I imagined failed to match 
reality. I though, wow, wouldn't it be neat to find a PDP-11/40 or 
something and put it in my office with my imac and such. Uh, bad, bad 
idea. If you think a dell sounds like an airplane engine, a PDP-11 and 
it's peripherals in operation sound like a freight train. Here's a link 
for your listening pleasure (it's a youtube video, but really, it's the 
sound track that's awesome). It is entitled "PDP-11/40 Computer and 
ASR-33 Teletype":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4IztV7M3jI

Maybe at some point, someone could add a really low threshold audio loop 
to the simulator (sort of like a whitenoise generator) that is 
reminiscent of the machine(s) in operation as an assistive technology 
enhancement?


Regards,

Will


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Re: [Simh] OSs with accessible documentation

[Will Senn]

Thanks! UCSD seems to be much more user friendly than SOLO. I look 
forward to messing around with it.


Will

On 2/8/16 11:54 AM, Ron Young wrote:

Your message dated: Fri, 05 Feb 2016 21:48:08 -0600


Ron,

I'm interested and interested in any documentation if there is any as well.

Regards,

Will


The SOLO os stuff is also available on bitsavers

http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp11/Brinch_Hansen_SOLO/

most of the Brinch Hansen's stuff is not online, but googling
might turn up documents.

My UCSD pascal image for pdp 11 can be downloaded from here:

  http://rly2.dyndns.org/UCSD-bootable-rk05.zip

This is a snapshot of the disks that I used to build a bootable
pdp11 version of UCSD II.0. There is a README.TXT file that
has more information. The main image that you want is rk0.dsk
(rtv4_rk.dsk is an RT11 disk that I used to assemble the pdp
boot blocks).

-ron


On 2/5/16 9:35 PM, Ron Young wrote:

On Feb 5, 2016 3:19 PM, Kevin Handy  wrote:

I think there was also a PDP11 version of a Pascal OS (??name forgotten at

*** the moment), and several FORTH systems too.

Two pascal operating systems that come to are UCSD and SOLO (Per Brunch Han

***sen's research os) ... I have bootable rk05 simh images for both if a
***nyone is interested.

-RON
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Re: [Simh] Pascal for RT-11

[Will Senn]

On 2/6/16 9:37 AM, Will Senn wrote:

Hi,

Does anyone know where to find a working SimH compatible image of a Pascal for 
RT-11?

Thanks,

Will

Sent from my iPhone
A partial answer to my own question (still curious about other 
implementations that are available) and a few followups:


There's an RK05 image of OMSI Pascal v2.1 on bitsavers:
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/bits/DEC/pdp11/discimages/rk05/omsiPascal2.1.dsk.gz

Download it and unzip it.

Then in SimH:
att rk0 omsiPascal2.1.dsk

and in RT-11v53:
.dir rk:

CONVRS.PAS37  07-Mar-85  CSICON.PAS 2 07-Mar-85
CSITYP.PAS 3  07-Mar-85  CSIPRO.PAS 6 07-Mar-85
FIXARG.PAS 5  07-Mar-85  FIXINC.PAS 4 07-Mar-85
FIXOUT.PAS 4  07-Mar-85  CNVNUM.PAS 4 07-Mar-85
SYMDCL.PAS13  07-Mar-85  SYMCOD.PAS17 07-Mar-85
GETCS .PAS20  07-Mar-85  PROSE .PAS   205 07-Mar-85
PASMAC.MAC39  07-Mar-85  XREF  .PAS37 07-Mar-85
PROCRE.PAS92  07-Mar-85  STRING.PAS24 07-Mar-85
PASMAT.PAS   194  07-Mar-85  PB.PAS77 07-Mar-85
LIBDEF.PAS14  07-Mar-85  OPERRO.PAS12 07-Mar-85
UERROR.PAS 4  07-Mar-85  SAYERR.PAS11 07-Mar-85
SJ.SAV   397  07-Mar-85  RTPAGE.COM 1 07-Mar-85
XM.SAV   474  07-Mar-85  XMPAGE.COM 1 07-Mar-85
LIBFPP.OBJ   315  07-Mar-85  START .OBJ 1 07-Mar-85
UTILS .SJ  1  07-Mar-85  UTILS .XM  2 07-Mar-85
LIBFIS.OBJ   333  07-Mar-85  LIBEIS.OBJ   338 07-Mar-85
LIBSIM.OBJ   353  07-Mar-85  VIRJOB.OBJ 1 07-Mar-85
EXTRAC.COM 3  07-Mar-85  XMDBG .COM 2 07-Mar-85
SJDBG .COM 2  07-Mar-85
 37 Files, 3048 Blocks
 1714 Free blocks

It looks like there are only 2 versions SJ and XM, so you need to boot 
the right monitor:

. copy/boot dk0:rt11xm.sys dk0:
.boot dk0

I'm sure there's a better way to install the distribution than to copy 
it over to the system disk, but I just copied everything over (if 
someone knows how it ought to be done, please let me know):

.copy rk0:*.* dk0:

Then to compile and link a pascal file such as this:
program adder(input,output);

var x,y,z : real;

begin
read(x,y);
z := x + y;
writeln(' inputs and answer: ');
writeln(x, y, z)
end.

.xm adder.pas
.link adder,libfpp

Anyway, it "works" for this program. However, if I try to compile 
PROSE.PAS, which came with the distribution, I get:

.xm prose.pas

PASCAL--I/O error at user PC= 62626B
Attempt to write past end of file
I/O error code= -48 in file: DK:TEMP2.TMP

in SJ monitor, same error, different PC:
PASCAL--I/O error at user PC= 43014B
Attempt to write past end of file
I/O error code= -48 in file: DK:TEMP2.TMP

A dir on dk shows that the disk isn't full:
 289 Files, 8511 Blocks
 11871 Free blocks

Does anyone know:
0. What the error means.
1. The proper install method.
2. The location of a OMSI Pascal 2.1 Manual.
3. How to know it's 2.1 and not another version in disguise.

Thanks,

Will

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[Simh] Pascal for RT-11

[Will Senn]

Hi,

Does anyone know where to find a working SimH compatible image of a Pascal for 
RT-11?

Thanks,

Will

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Simh] Macro-11 Macro library question (RT11 running in SimH PDP11)

[Will Senn]

I should have been more clear. I was inconsistent in my use of the dot. 
If I had used it everywhere, it would have been fine, to Timothe's point 
about it being a symbol. I didn't, so instead of fixing it in that 
direction, I chose the recommended path of not using dot for 
user-defined symbols.


You're right that the macro expansion didn't show anything because the 
symbol was undefined. I'll have to try the other list options later. I 
was able to get my textbook example (pascal like macros) working, so I'm 
good for the time being.


By the way, other than it's reliance on macros for I/O in the first 7 
chapters, the book, "The Digital Way: Macro-11 Assembly Language 
Programming (PDP-11", by J. F. Peters, III, is pretty awesome. it covers 
PDP-11 architecture and includes information on how to work with 
assembly language using RT11, RSTS, and RSX-11 tools.


At the end of the day, my issues are a bit of pilot error combined with 
a huge helping of ignorance about the underlying systems that is only 
slowly being overcome. One day, I'm using RT11 (cuz it's simpler, 
generally), the next I'm using RSX-11 cuz it's got more software), 
slowly, it's all beginning to make sense ( which is slightly ironic, 
because really, I'm only trying to learn the PDP-11 well enough to 
understand Unix internals :), talk about the long way 'round, but fun, 
if sometimes a bit exasperating! ).


Thanks,

Will

On 2/5/16 3:59 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

He provided the listing in the original post.
He had one error on .MCALL line, and one on the .TIN line

U on .MCALL, and UQ on .TIN, if I remember right.

I also find it extremely strange that it would not be possible to 
start a user defined macro with '.', but if it works without, that's a 
strong indication that the dot was the problem.


Or else Will was not actually using a dot, but only something that 
looked like one, or something else funny...?


As for listing the macro expansions in the list file, that can be 
interesting, but if the symbol is considered undefined, you're not 
going to see anything more.


Johnny

On 2016-02-05 22:41, Timothe Litt wrote:

Too many loose ends to declare victory.

The RT-11 librarian doesn't have a list command for macros; they were
second class citizens.  It's available on other DEC OS's librians, so I
must have crossed a memory.

Names with a '.'  or '$' are reserved to DEC.  But I don't think this
should impact how the search is conducted.  I'm pretty sure I had
private libraries with .foo names (legal, as I was in DEC :-)

In .FOO, '.' is part of the symbol name.

See
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/RT-11/AA-5075A-TC%20PDP-11%20MACRO-11%20Language%20Reference%20Manual.pdf 


Page 3-6; also chapter 7, section 7.8.

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp11/rt11/v5.6_Aug91/AA-PDU0A-TC_RT-11_Commands_Manual_Aug91.pdf 



describes the DCL:
e.g. EXECUTE MYLIB/LIBRARY+C.MAC/LIST/OBJECT

I don't suppose that you got it trouble for explicitly specifying .MLB?
That would be strange.  But DCL for RT11 came after I stopped using 
RT11.


You didn't provide the .LST file, which is where the real error should
turn up.
Also,  .list MD, MC and ME will often shed some light on these sorts of
issues.  (Of these, ME is the only one not defaulted on)



On 05-Feb-16 16:05, Will Senn wrote:

I got it working :).

However, It doesn't look like macro files can be listed - from the
system utilities manual:
The .MACRO directive produces the entries in the library directory
(macro names). LIBR does not maintain a directory listing file for
macro libraries; you can print the ASCII input file to list the macros
in the library.

I did a bunch more reading and figured out that the issue was around
inconsistent/improper use of the leading dot. Interestingly, no
diagnostic I could find was helpful in tracking this down. Y'alls tips
and hints were much more useful.

So, here's how it went down (don't use a leading dot for user-defined
macros, but if you do use them, use them everywhere):

.type et2.mac
.TITLE  ETTYIN
.MCALL.TTYOUT,TIN

START:MOV#BUFFER,R1
CLRR2
INLOOP:TIN(R1)+
INCR2
CMPB#12,R0
BNEINLOOP
MOV#BUFFER,R1
OUTLOOP:.TTYOUT(R1)+
DECR2
BEQSTART
BROUTLOOP
BUFFER:.BLKW64.
.ENDSTART
.

.type tin.mac
.MACROTINCHAR
EMT^O340
BCS.-2.
.IF NB 
.IF DIF ,R0
MOVBR0,CHAR
.ENDC
.ENDC
.ENDM

.lib/mac/c tin tin

.macro et2/list/cross+tin.mlb/lib

.link et2

.run et2
THIS IS A TEST
THIS IS A TEST
^C

.

I really appreciate y'alls assistance.

Thanks,

Will

On 2/5/16 12:19 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:

Try the obvious:

lib/mac/list tin.mlb

I don't remember exactly, but I think th

Re: [Simh] Macro-11 Macro library question (RT11 running in SimH PDP11)

[Will Senn]

I got it working :).

However, It doesn't look like macro files can be listed - from the 
system utilities manual:
The .MACRO directive produces the entries in the library directory 
(macro names). LIBR does not maintain a directory listing file for macro 
libraries; you can print the ASCII input file to list the macros in the 
library.


I did a bunch more reading and figured out that the issue was around 
inconsistent/improper use of the leading dot. Interestingly, no 
diagnostic I could find was helpful in tracking this down. Y'alls tips 
and hints were much more useful.


So, here's how it went down (don't use a leading dot for user-defined 
macros, but if you do use them, use them everywhere):


.type et2.mac
.TITLE  ETTYIN
.MCALL.TTYOUT,TIN

START:MOV#BUFFER,R1
CLRR2
INLOOP:TIN(R1)+
INCR2
CMPB#12,R0
BNEINLOOP
MOV#BUFFER,R1
OUTLOOP:.TTYOUT(R1)+
DECR2
BEQSTART
BROUTLOOP
BUFFER:.BLKW64.
.ENDSTART
.

.type tin.mac
.MACROTINCHAR
EMT^O340
BCS.-2.
.IF NB 
.IF DIF ,R0
MOVBR0,CHAR
.ENDC
.ENDC
.ENDM

.lib/mac/c tin tin

.macro et2/list/cross+tin.mlb/lib

.link et2

.run et2
THIS IS A TEST
THIS IS A TEST
^C

.

I really appreciate y'alls assistance.

Thanks,

Will

On 2/5/16 12:19 PM, Timothe Litt wrote:

Try the obvious:

lib/mac/list tin.mlb

I don't remember exactly, but I think there's a /detail or /names or
/list=names that will list the macro names in the library.

That will at least determine if MAC *should* find the macro.

On 05-Feb-16 13:05, Will Senn wrote:


On 2/5/16 10:20 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

On Feb 5, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Will Senn  wrote:

All,

A couple of questions:

...
lib/mac/c tin tin
macro et2/list/cross+tin.mlb/lib
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
DK:ET2,DK:ET2/C=DK:ET2,DK:TIN.SML

Try putting the macro library earlier in the command line.  I believe
MACRO processes command arguments as it encounters them, so here
you're asking it to assemble ET2 before you've given it the macro
library it needs to understand the .MCALL.

 paul


I tried the command with the filespecs switched with the same result:
.macro tin.MLB/lib+et2/list/cross
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
DK:TIN,DK:ET2/C=DK:TIN.MLB/M,DK:ET2

And then I ran it via run macro:
.run macro
*ET2.OBJ,ET2.LST,ET2.LST=TIN.MLB/M,ET2
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
ET2.OBJ,ET2.LST,ET2.LST=TIN.MLB/M,ET2
*

And then I edited the macro file to include a LIBRARY directive:
 .TITLE  ETTYIN
 .LIBRARY /TIN.MLB/
 .MCALL.TTYOUT,.TIN

START:MOV#BUFFER,R1
 CLRR2
INLOOP:.TIN(R1)+
 INCR2
 CMPB#12,R0
 BNEINLOOP
 MOV#BUFFER,R1
OUTLOOP:.TTYOUT(R1)+
 DECR2
 BEQSTART
 BROUTLOOP
BUFFER:.BLKW64.
 .ENDSTART

and recompiled:
.macro et2/list/cross
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
DK:ET2,DK:ET2/C=DK:ET2

It looks to me like it is finding the file, but not "seeing" the macro
definition?

Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] Macro-11 Macro library question (RT11 running in SimH PDP11)

[Will Senn]

On 2/5/16 10:20 AM, Paul Koning wrote:

On Feb 5, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Will Senn  wrote:

All,

A couple of questions:

...
lib/mac/c tin tin
macro et2/list/cross+tin.mlb/lib
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
DK:ET2,DK:ET2/C=DK:ET2,DK:TIN.SML

Try putting the macro library earlier in the command line.  I believe MACRO 
processes command arguments as it encounters them, so here you're asking it to 
assemble ET2 before you've given it the macro library it needs to understand 
the .MCALL.

paul


I tried the command with the filespecs switched with the same result:
.macro tin.MLB/lib+et2/list/cross
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
DK:TIN,DK:ET2/C=DK:TIN.MLB/M,DK:ET2

And then I ran it via run macro:
.run macro
*ET2.OBJ,ET2.LST,ET2.LST=TIN.MLB/M,ET2
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
ET2.OBJ,ET2.LST,ET2.LST=TIN.MLB/M,ET2
*

And then I edited the macro file to include a LIBRARY directive:
.TITLE  ETTYIN
.LIBRARY /TIN.MLB/
.MCALL.TTYOUT,.TIN

START:MOV#BUFFER,R1
CLRR2
INLOOP:.TIN(R1)+
INCR2
CMPB#12,R0
BNEINLOOP
MOV#BUFFER,R1
OUTLOOP:.TTYOUT(R1)+
DECR2
BEQSTART
BROUTLOOP
BUFFER:.BLKW64.
.ENDSTART

and recompiled:
.macro et2/list/cross
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
DK:ET2,DK:ET2/C=DK:ET2

It looks to me like it is finding the file, but not "seeing" the macro 
definition?


Thanks,

Will

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[Simh] Macro-11 Macro library question (RT11 running in SimH PDP11)

[Will Senn]

All,

A couple of questions:

1. Do any of y'all know where there is a working example of an assembly 
language program that includes a user defined macro in a library file?


2. Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong with this simple macro example?

Here's what I tried (that didn't work) after reading the manuals:

edit et2.mac
.TITLE  ETTYIN
.MCALL.TTYOUT,.TIN

START:MOV#BUFFER,R1
CLRR2
INLOOP:.TIN(R1)+
INCR2
CMPB#12,R0
BNEINLOOP
MOV#BUFFER,R1
OUTLOOP:.TTYOUT(R1)+
DECR2
BEQSTART
BROUTLOOP
BUFFER:.BLKW64.
.ENDSTART

edit tin.mac
.MACROTINCHAR
EMT^O340
BCS.-2.
.IF NB 
.IF DIF ,R0
MOVBR0,CHAR
.ENDC
.ENDC
.ENDM
.END

lib/mac/c tin tin
macro et2/list/cross+tin.mlb/lib
?MACRO-E-Errors detected:  2
DK:ET2,DK:ET2/C=DK:ET2,DK:TIN.SML

The errors are due to the fact that .TIN/TIN (tried it both ways) is not 
found:


  1.TITLE  ETTYIN
U 2.MCALL.TTYOUT,.TIN
  3
  400012701 36'START: MOV#BUFFER,R1
  504005002 CLRR2
OQ606INLOOP:.TIN(R1)+
  706005202 INCR2
  810122700 12 CMPB #12,R0
  914001374 BNEINLOOP
 1016012701 36'MOV #BUFFER,R1
 1122OUTLOOP:.TTYOUT(R1)+
 1230005302 DECR2
 1332001762 BEQSTART
 1434000772 BROUTLOOP
 1536BUFFER:.BLKW64.
 1600'.ENDSTART

However, if I include the macro in the file, edit et1.mac:
.TITLE  ETTYIN
.MCALL.TTYOUT

.MACROTINCHAR
EMT^O340
BCS.-2.
.IF NB 
.IF DIF ,R0
MOVBR0,CHAR
.ENDC
.ENDC
.ENDM

START:MOV#BUFFER,R1
CLRR2
INLOOP:TIN(R1)+
INCR2
CMPB#12,R0
BNEINLOOP
MOV#BUFFER,R1
OUTLOOP:.TTYOUT(R1)+
DECR2
BEQSTART
BROUTLOOP
BUFFER:.BLKW64.
.ENDSTART

The program compiles/links/and runs fine and whatever strings I enter 
are copied to output as expected. TIN is just the library macro .TTYIN 
copied verbatim. I expect that my macro file is not proper or that it is 
not being found by macro, although it complains if I supply a 
non-existent file.


Insights appreciated.


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Re: [Simh] Pascal 1.3 manual for RSX 11 4.6

[Will Senn]

On 2/2/16 5:17 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:


You are welcome.
That said, there are a few points I should make here.

As you log into the demo account, you are getting into DCL.
DCL is a CLI, but it is not the same as MCR. Thus, DCL actually have 
different commands, but normally if DCL do not understand what you 
wrote, it passes it on to MCR, which saved you here.


So, editing in DCL is normally done with the command "EDIT". "EDT" is 
the MCR command.


You are using the DCL PASCAL command, good.

TKB is once more a MCR command. The DCL command would be:

LINK HELLO,LB:[1,1]PASOTS/LIBRARY

DCL commands and qualifiers can be abbreviated. See HELP.

Johnny



Got it. So, I did:

$ edit leaves.pas
Input file does not exist
[EOB]
*i
program leaves(output);
var
a,b,sum,r,count : integer;

begin
a := 0;b := 0;sum := 1;count:= 21;

repeat
sum := sum + a;
a := b;
b := sum;
count := count - 1;
until count = 0;
write('sum = ':30,sum:10)
end.
^Z
[EOB]
*ex
DB0:[USER]LEAVES.PAS;1 15 lines

$ pascal leaves.pas

Then, to link, it appears that I have choices, all of which appear to work:

$ link leaves,DB0:[11,36]PASEIS/LIBRARY
$ link leaves,DB0:[11,36]PASFPP/LIBRARY
$ link leaves,LB:[1,1]PASOTS/LIBRARY

$ run LEAVES
sum =  10946

I'm guessing that PASEIS uses PDP11 EIS opcode extensions (sometimes?) 
and PASFPP uses PDP11 FPP opcode extensions (sometimes?). I have no idea 
about PASOTS. But I'm glad my little pascal files are compiling/running!


Will


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Re: [Simh] Pascal 1.3 manual for RSX 11 4.6

[Will Senn]

On 2/2/16 8:50 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2016-02-02 15:22, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2016-02-02 15:07, Will Senn wrote:



On 2/1/16 5:33 PM, Will Senn wrote:

Hi,

Does anyone know where I could find copy of a Pascal manual for RSX
11? Preferably Pascal version 1.3. I'm running it on RSX 11 v4.6 in
SimH and the PAS> prompt is singularly unrevealing about how it is
used (CTRL-D will exit though, which is better than the alternative).

This is the tape for the pascal that I've installed:
ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsxdists/pascal_v1_3.zip

Thanks,

Will

OK. So I searched help (after building a new environment that worked
properly) and figured out it's some kind of interactive pascal compiler
that can also be run as a command line. So, I compiled a pascal file
from the command line and lo and behold, it produced a nice looking
object file. But, when I tried to link it as is, it appears to 
depend on

an external library. This makes perfect sense, but raises a couple of
questions that I'm hoping y'all might could answer:


"Interactive" meaning you can either get a prompt, and compile several
files while running the compiler, or just do one file at the time and
stop/start the compiler each time, I guess.

But yes, for any language that you want to link, you need to language
specific library included.


1. What's the name/location of the file(s) containing the pascal
delivered external functions (write, print, etc)?


Not sure, but I would suspect it would be LB:[1,1]PASLIB.OLB, but just
do a DIR LB:[1,1]PAS*.OLB, and you should spot it.


2. If you recall a typical Pascal workflow with RSX-11M Plus, what was
it (or was it simply, edit, compile, and link to the above referenced
libraries)?


Yes.
That is normally how you do it with any language.
That said, if you have a little more complex software system, you
usually create a couple of command files containing commands, so that
you don't have to type it all each time.

So, for PASCAL, you might have a COMPILE.CMD, which holds the arguments
you give to the PASCAL compiler, and then you'd just do PAS @COMPILE

And then the same for the linking/task building. Maybe called LINK.CMD,
and then you'd do TKB @LINK

TKB have a lot of functions and features, and having to type it all in
every time is tedious and error prone. Much better to have that in a
file, which you just use.


All that said - assuming the PASCAL library is LB:[1,1]PASLIB.OLB, a 
simple commandline would be:


TKB FOO,FOO=FOO,LB:[1,1]PASLIB/LB

Johnny

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Yeeha! I compiled a working Pascal program :). Here's how:

logged in as USER password USER (DCL is default):
$ edt HELLO.PAS
Input file does not exist
[EOB]
*i
program hello(output);

begin
write('hello, world');
end.
^Z
[EOB]
*ex
DB0:[USER]HELLO.PAS;1 5 lines

$ pascal HELLO.PAS
$
$ tkb HELLO,HELLO=HELLO,LB:[1,1]PASOTS/LB
$
$ run HELLO
hello, world

Thanks Johnny!

Will

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Re: [Simh] Pascal 1.3 manual for RSX 11 4.6

[Will Senn]

On 2/1/16 5:33 PM, Will Senn wrote:

Hi,

Does anyone know where I could find copy of a Pascal manual for RSX 
11? Preferably Pascal version 1.3. I'm running it on RSX 11 v4.6 in 
SimH and the PAS> prompt is singularly unrevealing about how it is 
used (CTRL-D will exit though, which is better than the alternative).


This is the tape for the pascal that I've installed:
ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsxdists/pascal_v1_3.zip

Thanks,

Will
OK. So I searched help (after building a new environment that worked 
properly) and figured out it's some kind of interactive pascal compiler 
that can also be run as a command line. So, I compiled a pascal file 
from the command line and lo and behold, it produced a nice looking 
object file. But, when I tried to link it as is, it appears to depend on 
an external library. This makes perfect sense, but raises a couple of 
questions that I'm hoping y'all might could answer:


1. What's the name/location of the file(s) containing the pascal 
delivered external functions (write, print, etc)?
2. If you recall a typical Pascal workflow with RSX-11M Plus, what was 
it (or was it simply, edit, compile, and link to the above referenced 
libraries)?


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] Pascal 1.3 manual for RSX 11 4.6

[Will Senn]

Oops. CTRL-C. Is there a better way? 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-02-02 00:33, Will Senn wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Does anyone know where I could find copy of a Pascal manual for RSX 11?
>> Preferably Pascal version 1.3. I'm running it on RSX 11 v4.6 in SimH and
>> the PAS> prompt is singularly unrevealing about how it is used (CTRL-D
>> will exit though, which is better than the alternative).
>> 
>> This is the tape for the pascal that I've installed:
>> ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsxdists/pascal_v1_3.zip
> 
> ^D to exit??? Are you sure? That just sounds so unlikely.
> 
> Apart from that, I have no idea where any manuals might be found. As for how 
> to use it, it should have installed some HELP files, at least. Have you tried 
> HELP PAS?
> 
>Johnny
> 
> -- 
> Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
>  ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
> ___
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> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
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[Simh] Pascal 1.3 manual for RSX 11 4.6

[Will Senn]

Hi,

Does anyone know where I could find copy of a Pascal manual for RSX 11? 
Preferably Pascal version 1.3. I'm running it on RSX 11 v4.6 in SimH and 
the PAS> prompt is singularly unrevealing about how it is used (CTRL-D 
will exit though, which is better than the alternative).


This is the tape for the pascal that I've installed:
ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsxdists/pascal_v1_3.zip

Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] ODT

[Will Senn]

On 1/23/16 11:09 AM, dave porter wrote:

In the corner of DEC here I came from, it was the "Odious Debugging
Tool", especially if you were used to symbolic debuggers.



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Ha. Maybe someone should go in and update the wikipedia entry and talk page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-line_Debugging_Tool
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:On-line_Debugging_Tool

There seems to be plenty of points of view on the acronym :).

Will
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[Simh] First baby steps towards Unix v6 Goal

[Will Senn]

All,

Well, I have finally gained enough of a basic understanding of the 
pdp-11 and assembly language to start working on my real goal of 
understanding Unix v6 internals. Today, and I realize to many of you 
this might seem like an insignificant feat, I got "Hello, World!" 
working as an assembly program in v6 on SimH pdp-11/40. It's been a long 
and often frustrating journey to get to this point and by way of 
celebration, I put together a mini-note at:


http://decuser.blogspot.com/2016/01/hello-world-in-assembly-on-research.html

It's raw and doesn't really explain anything about the assembly or 
architecture side of things, but it works and when I do add the why it 
works to the note, it will hopefully help other folks.


If you're interested, take a look and I welcome feedback.

Regards,

Will
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Re: [Simh] Overwrite last track and set badblocks

[Will Senn]

On 1/22/16 12:19 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

 From the wording of Will's question, it is not 100% clear that he's really 
asking
if executing a "SET RL0 BADBLOCKS" as a command is ever required.  The
answer to this question is NO since the question will automatically be asked
when the disk image is initially created.

If someone really wanted to preserve a previously created, but probably
empty disk image file and add a DEC144 bad block table to the last track of
the disk the "SET RL0 BADBLOCK" command would do that.  A sequence
like this might be useful:

  sim> ATTACH RL0 test.dsk
  RL: creating new file
  Overwrite last track? [N]
  sim> SET RL0 BADBLOCK
  Overwrite last track? [N]y
  sim>

- Mark



Mark,

I wasn't 100% clear on what I was asking :). Your answer, though, is 
very helpful. I was wondering about the utility of the command.


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] Overwrite last track and set badblocks

[Will Senn]

On 1/21/16 9:48 AM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

Hi Will,

On Thursday, January 21, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Will Senn wrote:

A quick couple of questions...

1. Why does SimH prompt to overwrite the last track on some images every
time it runs, even if I let it, it will ask on the next run.

2. What is a use case for setting bad blocks and is it a one shot deal or does 
it
need to stay in the .ini?

DEC shipped disk devices which were formatted at the factory.  Almost all
disk media had a very small percentage of the media which didn't perfectly
store data.  Certain modern, disk devices (MSCP) had spare sectors built into
the internal format information on the drives and they presented a full disk
of clean blocks to the system.  Older disks shipped with factory with a defect
table written in the last track of the device.  When an operating system
initially wrote file system data structures on a disk volume, it would allocate
the defective sectors to a BADBLOCK file on the disk and therefore those
sectors would be avoided for normal user data.  During the life of the disk
some areas might subsequently become bad.  If the OS detected these
later the newly identified areas would also be allocated to the BADBLOCK
disk file and the rest of the disk could still be used.

Thanks for the explanation.

So, back to your original question.  The prompt about "overwriting the last
track" is intended to create an essentially empty list of defective sectors
for a newly created disk image (for the disk types which actually had this
'feature').  The intention is that you should be prompted for this (or could
provide a -Y switch on the attach command) ONLY when you are creating
a new disk image.  If you are being prompted with this question each
time you attach an existing disk image then there could be a bug.  Please
identify the simulator and the specific commands which generate this
prompt.


OK. I figured some of this out...

In RT-11v5.3 if I have the following ini section for a disk:
set rl1 writeenabled
attach rl1 storage.dsk

And I say no initially to the prompt:
Overwrite last track? [N]N

When I try to initialize the disk in RT-11, I get an error:
.initialize dl1:
DL1:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y
?DUP-F-Bad block in system area DL1:

But, if I answer Y:
Overwrite last track? [N]Y

All is good in the world. I get no errors initializing and I no longer 
get prompted at startup:

.initialize dl1:
DL1:/Initialize; Are you sure? Y

.dir vol:

0 Files, 0 Blocks
10172 Free blocks

This being the case, it appears that set badblock does not appear to be 
required. For the sake of discussion, if there is a case when it is 
required, is it a one-shot deal where the command is run in simh and 
then left out of the ini file after the bad block is created?


Thanks,

Will


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[Simh] Overwrite last track and set badblocks

[Will Senn]

Hi,

A quick couple of questions...

1. Why does SimH prompt to overwrite the last track on some images every time 
it runs, even if I let it, it will ask on the next run.

2. What is a use case for setting bad blocks and is it a one shot deal or does 
it need to stay in the .ini?

Thanks,

Will

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Simh] A tutorial introduction to programming PDP-11 Macro-11 Assembly in RT-11 v5.3

[Will Senn]

On 1/20/16 7:37 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

I see you are having fun. :-)

A couple of comments:

ODT actually stands for On-line Debugging Tool, not Online Debugging 
Technique.


You display the map file after linking with /debug, but the actual map 
file included was not from linking with /debug. :-)



Johnny,

I have fixed the map.

 With regards to ODT, the documentation calls it On-line Debugging 
Technique all over the place - from the System Utilities Manual - 
"On-line debugging technique (ODT) is a program that aids assembly 
language programs", from the Introduction to RT-11 Manual - "For 
MACR0-11 users, RT-11 provides a special on-line debugging tool called 
ODT (On-line Debugging Technique)." I agree it sounds weird, but I 
didn't dream it up.


I have confirmed that ;B does delete all breakpoints, but as you 
suggest, so does B by itself and nB will delete the specified 
breakpoint. G by itself doesn't work in this version of ODT (5.08). The 
address and semicolon are required. If a relocation register is set, the 
address can be relative to the relocation register. I took all of the 
ODT commands straight from the Utilities Manual and Introduction. I 
think the version as distributed in RT-11 v5.3 may work slightly 
differently from the RSX version.


I agree with your point about word and byte boundaries. It felt awkward 
when I wrote it and then I got antsy and impatient to get done :). I'll 
fix it up.


I'll have to play around with the current directory stuff and then I'll 
edit that section as well.


Again,

Thanks for the response.

Will



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Re: [Simh] A tutorial introduction to programming PDP-11 Macro-11 Assembly in RT-11 v5.3

[Will Senn]

On 1/20/16 7:37 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:


I see you are having fun. :-)

A couple of comments:

ODT actually stands for On-line Debugging Tool, not Online Debugging 
Technique.


You display the map file after linking with /debug, but the actual map 
file included was not from linking with /debug. :-)


I might be wrong, but I thought ODT works the same under RT-11 as 
under RSX, in which case you have several errors when listing and 
explaining commands.


;B will not remove breakpoints. It will actually set a breakpoint at 
the current location, using the first "free" breakpoint register.

B will remove all breakpoints, and nB will remove an explicit breakpoint.
;nB will set a breakpoint using breakpoing register n.

G will run the program. The semicolon is not needed. An argument 
before G becomes the address where it starts. If no argument is given, 
it will start at the beginning of the program.
The same with P, you can give an argument, which means it will pass 
that many breakpoints before actually stopping.


S will singlestep, and if you give an argument, it will singlestep 
that many instructions.


Now, this is how it works in RSX, so it *might* be that RT-11 works 
differently, but I would not have thought so. Maybe recheck this? (It 
might also just be that you are using an older version of ODT than was 
is "current".)


Your illustrations for words and bytes are inconsistent.
For words, you say that the boundaries are bit 0 and 15, while for 
bytes they are 0, 7 and 15. As you are describing the values giving 
the low and high bits, the correct thing would be to sat that a word 
have the boundaries at bit 0 and 15, and when dealing with bytes, the 
low byte is boundaries at bit 0 and 7, while the high byte have 
boundaries at bit 8 and 15.


"Current directory". RT-11 do not have a concept of a current 
directory, since there is only one directory on any device. However, 
unless I remember wrong, RT-11 do have the concept of the current 
device. This is given by the logical name DSK: You can assign DSK: to 
any device, and that will then be your default device.
The system has a logical name SYS:. And in additional you have the 
physical names for the different devices. And you can, of course, 
create your own names as well, if you want. Such as SRC: where you 
have source, if you want.


Now, I'm not an RT-11 expert, so you probably should search around and 
read some more documentation. But this might be some useful hints 
anyway. :-)


Johnny


Johnny,

Good points all. I'll work on incorporating the changes tomorrow. The 
MAP thing was because I did multiple runs and when I "fixed" the format, 
I used the wrong source. Thanks for taking the time to read the tutorial!


Regards,

Will
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Re: [Simh] A tutorial introduction to programming PDP-11 Macro-11 Assembly in RT-11 v5.3

[Will Senn]

All,

The formatting issues have been corrected. Thanks for pointing out the 
problem and for being patient as I corrected it. One of these days, I'm 
going to need a better blog site than blogspot. The formatting of 
technical code and non-syntax-highlighted code in particular is painful 
with their software.


I was careful, but I may have inadvertently introduced new issues. Let 
me know if you see anything worrisome.


Thanks,

Will
On 1/20/16 3:29 PM, Richard wrote:

In article <569fd2bf.9050...@gmail.com>,
     Will Senn  writes:


Please take a look and as always, I look forward to hearing your
comments, suggestions, and critiques.

"Below is the exact text of the SUM.MAC file. [...]"

The formatting looks all whacked on that file.  I'm used to seeing the
; comment introducer lines up in something like column 32 or 40 but
this appears all over the place.

I don't know if that's how your original source file is formatted or
if it's the way blogspot formatted your text.


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Re: [Simh] A tutorial introduction to programming PDP-11 Macro-11 Assembly in RT-11 v5.3

[Will Senn]

My apologies. Blogspot is not handling the code sections gracefully. It 
previews fine, but when published is messed up. I'm working on it.


Thanks,

Will

On 1/20/16 3:29 PM, Richard wrote:

In article <569fd2bf.9050...@gmail.com>,
     Will Senn  writes:


Please take a look and as always, I look forward to hearing your
comments, suggestions, and critiques.

"Below is the exact text of the SUM.MAC file. [...]"

The formatting looks all whacked on that file.  I'm used to seeing the
; comment introducer lines up in something like column 32 or 40 but
this appears all over the place.

I don't know if that's how your original source file is formatted or
if it's the way blogspot formatted your text.


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[Simh] A tutorial introduction to programming PDP-11 Macro-11 Assembly in RT-11 v5.3

[Will Senn]

All,

Please find a link to my most recent blog post. It is a tutorial on an 
assembly language programming workflow for RT-11 using SimH.


In the tutorial, I walk the reader through the process of editing an 
assembly language program, assembling it, linking it, comparing it to a 
reference, fixing typos, syntax errors, symbol reference errors, and 
logic errors using the ODT debugger, etc. It is based on and heavily 
draws from the introduction to RT-11 document using the same assembly 
language statements and solution, but is a modernized narrative that is 
contextualized for a simulated environment (SimH). It is presented as a 
step-by-step for the relative novice.


Here is the link:

http://decuser.blogspot.com/2016/01/a-tutorial-introduction-to-programming.html

Please take a look and as always, I look forward to hearing your 
comments, suggestions, and critiques.


Regards,

Will
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[Simh] simh vt11 support

[Will Senn]

I am starting to narrow this down. The simh source code contains a 
directory for lunar11. It has a document, README.TXT that contains SimH 
directions:


sim> ! Set CPU to a Unibus system type
sim> set cpu 11/70
sim> ! Enable DLI device so VT device autoconfigures
sim> ! with a starting vector of 320
sim> set dli enable
sim> set dli line=2
sim> ! Enable VT device
sim> set vt enable
sim> load lunar.lda
sim> dep 32530 1
sim> run

Lunar lander only needs a small screen area, and can run using a
simulated "VR14" display, which can fit on many computer screens
without scaling:

sim> set vt crt=vr14
sim> set vt scale=1

However, running recent pdp11 and referring to vt results in:
sim> set vt enable
Non-existent device

The source file pdp11_vt.c seems to supply the necessary device:
pdp11_vt.c: PDP-11 VT11/VS60 Display Processor Simulation
...
vt   VT11/VS60 Display Processor

/*
 * this file is just a thin layer of glue to the simulator-
 * independent XY Display simulation
 */

But after compiling, VT doesn't appear to exist as a valid device. What 
am I doing wrong - is the VT device part of the pdp11 simulator or isn't it?


Thanks,

Will


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[Simh] VT100 Color of text

[Will Senn]

All,

Having very vague recollects of having ever seen a real VT100, I came 
across the following picture while doing some research on RT-11:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/RT-11_help.jpg

I was surprised a little by the color of the text. In my minds eye, I 
had imagined either Amber or Green on black (the default on my Terminal 
windows). To my real eye, it looks blue. Given that the orange, manilla, 
and brown of the case look believable, it would seem that the VT100 had 
blue text. Is this correct and is it the only color of text on the 
machine? Does anyone know the hex RGB values?


A little more on topic and I've asked this question differently in the 
past, but now I think I have a better formulation of the question - are 
there SimH compatible video terminal simulators available and listed 
somewhere? The image of the VT100 made me think that interacting with a 
graphically detailed simulated VT100 attached to SimH is a qualitatively 
different experience than attaching a modern xterm telnet session to 
SimH and the same would be true for a VT11, a GT40 (see link below), or 
any of the terminals.


http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/minicomputers/11/366/1961

I still have a hankering to play a graphic version of lunar lander or 
spacewar on my Macbook Pro on an OS that I administer :).


Thanks,

Will


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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

On 1/6/16 8:27 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2016-01-07 03:08, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2016-01-07 01:00, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

Meanwhile, the 'crude' way to exchange data on most simulators can
actually be done with cut and paste in console or telnet sessions.

Indeed. That also works. But it is really problematic when copying
data into the simulator, since this goes through the OS terminal
driver, which have limitations. Pasting in data often leads to data
loss in my experience. But copying out works fine.

Actually, copying data into a simulator with paste has improved vastly

recently.

10's of Kbytes of data pasted at once without data loss.  Give it a try.

Uh? Really. How recent do I need it to be then?
I'm on:
   PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: e9b312f2

Well, git commit id: e9b312f2 was back on June 6, 2014.  Not too many folks 
would call that recent.  :-)

Recent being in the last month or so.

- Mark



The changes Mark made in November were life changing for pasting :).

Will
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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

On 1/6/16 9:08 AM, Will Senn wrote:

Johnny escribe:
As for transferring files to and from your RSTS/E system, you do know 
of KERMIT, right? Telnet into the RSTS/E system, start a kermit 
server there, switch back to your local kermit, and then send/receive 
files to your hearts content.




OK. I'm making progress. I downloaded K11RSX.HEX from 
ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/b/ along with K11HEX.BAS and using my 
nifty paper tape reader (after running unix2dos on the files) I got them 
on RSTS. I then ran K11HEX.BAS and converted K11RSX.HEX to K11RSX.TSK and:


$ run K11RSX.TSK
Kermit-11 T3.60  Last edit: 21-Mar-89

Check SHOW RELEASE_NOTES for possible incompatabilities
with previous releases of Kermit-11 and other Kermits.
Linked for RSX11M/M+ and P/OS
Kermit-11>

Will you look at that?

On my Mac, I brew install'd c-kermit and now I am able to run Kermit on 
both ends of the connect. Kermit will even do telnet, so I have telnet'd 
to one of the DZ connections successfully.


If you want to share how you actually do a file transfer using the 
amazing kermit, I would appreciate it. Meanwhile, I'm busy reading docs 
and googling to figure it out.


Thanks,

Will

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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

Johnny,

Thanks for the information. Responses inline.

On 1/6/16 8:44 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
There is no way to software wise reset the paper tape from the OS. The 
paper tape is a physical thing. I real life, you would need to 
actually take the paper tape and "mount" it in the reader, and set the 
reader online. And after that, the tape can be read by software.



I get it... now :), thanks.

As for transferring files to and from your RSTS/E system, you do know 
of KERMIT, right? Telnet into the RSTS/E system, start a kermit server 
there, switch back to your local kermit, and then send/receive files 
to your hearts content.


Ha! Let's just say that I used KERMIT once back in the early 90's and 
have never used it since. I seem to recall something called zmodem that 
was easier to use (at least for the year my wife was in grad school and 
I had to connect to the internet through my DEC Rainbow 100 running DOS 
3.10b and a super fast 300 baud modem to the university's VMS system). 
But then again, it was all ftp and browsers the year after that (and a 
486 with 56K modem, Windows 95, and trumpet tcp I think). I may be old 
enough for vague recollections of bbses and such, but experientially, 
I'm solidly post tcp/ip, post-Mosaic, and post www. Everything old is 
new to me!


When you say, start a kermit server, I don't think there is one already 
on the system. I have to get it on the system somehow first. If there's 
a tape or disk image available that RSTS can use, then it's just a 
matter of installing and running it. I say just, I'm still getting up to 
speed on installing and running programs in RSTS. I'll be working on it...


Other options could be using a disk with the files on it, setting up 
tapes, but also, if simh supports it, possibly using the virtual DOS 
device, that other emulators have, as well as using DECnet.



Does the virtual DOS device work in linux/mac?

As for "using" DECnet... hmm, I'm working on getting DECnet working, the 
install and configuration of sim seem to be reasonable. I just don't 
know what to do with it once it's running. This is my refrain, I'm 
working on it :). The list of items on my "To Understand" list far 
outnumber the "Understood" list. My unfounded belief is that DECnet is 
quite different from modern networking and that it doesn't have a 
toolset that I'm familiar with - no ping, no ssh, no telnet, not even 
rcp or rsh and such so if I get it running. What might a copy from host 
to sim look like? copy HOST:FILE SY:FILE or something similar?


If you have some RSX, RT-11 or VMS system nearby, you can also use 
TCP/IP on those systems, and then transfer using one of the above 
suggested methods to just get the files over to RSTS/E.
I only have simh systems, no real systems. I have RT-11, but I don't 
think it has TCP/IP. I'll be working on it...


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

On 1/5/16 11:38 PM, Will Senn wrote:



On 1/5/16 7:14 PM, Paul Koning wrote:

On Jan 5, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Will Senn  wrote:

All,

The simulated paper tape device is very handy to copy text around 
between a host and simulated environment. My question for the group 
is, does RSTS/E 10.1-L support the paper tape device? The 
documentation is sketchy about it but does make a rare reference to 
PP: and PR: (help for SYSTAT for example), but it wasn't a question 
during sysgen and I can't figure out how to copy files to it. In 
RT-11, it's as simple as copy whatever PC: or copy PC: whatever...
Yes, RSTS does support those.  I don't know why Sysgen doesn't ask.  
It doesn't ask about DECtape, either.  Perhaps they are no longer 
officially supported, but the software should be there and it should 
work.


After running sysgen but before running the resulting sysgen.com 
script, edit config.mac.  Look for the line that mentions PR11 and 
change the 0 to 1, then the next line (PP11) also 0 change to 1.  
While you're there, if you want DECtape, change TC11 (just above 
PR11) to be the number of DECtape drives.  Typically that's an even 
number because a TU56 has two DECtape drives in it.


paul

I followed the steps Paul provided with Christian's clarification and 
am now able to copy files to the paper tape punch device PP:...


$ copy instal.log pp:
[File INSTAL.LOG copied to PP:[1,2]]

The ptp.txt file on the host now contains the contents of instal.log 
from rsts/e. Woohoo, half way there...


but copying files from PR: doesn't seem to work:
$ copy pr: hello.mac
?Device hung or write locked - file PR:??.???

I tried PR0: as well, same result. Is the copy command different from 
what I typed? or do I need to enable read on the PR device somehow?


Thanks,

Will


Update. If the copy is the first thing after attaching ptr in simh, it 
works:

$ copy PR: HELLO.MAC
[File PR:??.??? copied to [1,2]HELLO .MAC]
$ macro/rt11 hello/list
$ link/rt11 hello/map
$ run hello
HELLO, WORLD

Any subsequent use of PR fails (which makes sense, really, after all, 
the PTR should be positioned after the read):

?Device hung or write locked - file PR:??.???

until ptr is attached again. I'm not sure how I missed this the first go 
around, I didn't think it ever succeeded, but I've verified that it 
seems to always works after an attach. Is there a 
reset/rewind/reposition device function that will work with PR in RSTS? 
I can work around it with reattachment in SIMH if all else fails.


Thanks,

Will



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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

On 1/5/16 11:08 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

For those curious of the process:


Right after the configuring jobs section (where it asks the number of
jobs, number of small buffers, and if you want EMT logging) and before
loading the system software from tape is the best point I've found.
When it asks if you want to proceed answer "no".

EDT is in [0,12] so to edit CONFIG.MAC at this point:
$ run [0,12]EDT
EDT>config.mac
The actual CONFIG.MAC file is relatively straightforward and pretty
self-explanatory.

If you're doing the SYSGEN with an 8B/8B TTI/TTO device with either a
telnet attached console, or on a platform that actually likes escape
characters you can enter "ch" at the '*' prompt to get full screen EDT
(much easier to work with than line editing). F1 is the Gold key, F2
is Help.

After you finish editing CONFIG.MAC, run the BUFCHK program, also in
[0,12] (if you don't at the actual point of building the system for
some reason you get negative small buffers...).
$ run [0,12]BUFCHK

Then continue the sysgen by entering "proceed" at the DCL prompt.



Christian,

Your instructions worked great. I was able to wait until just before 
building the monitor to answer No, edit the file and continue. 
Interestingly, I couldn't run the bufchk at that point but I didn't get 
any errors either.


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

On 1/5/16 7:14 PM, Paul Koning wrote:

On Jan 5, 2016, at 5:07 PM, Will Senn  wrote:

All,

The simulated paper tape device is very handy to copy text around between a 
host and simulated environment. My question for the group is, does RSTS/E 
10.1-L support the paper tape device? The documentation is sketchy about it but 
does make a rare reference to PP: and PR: (help for SYSTAT for example), but it 
wasn't a question during sysgen and I can't figure out how to copy files to it. 
In RT-11, it's as simple as copy whatever PC: or copy PC: whatever...

Yes, RSTS does support those.  I don't know why Sysgen doesn't ask.  It doesn't 
ask about DECtape, either.  Perhaps they are no longer officially supported, 
but the software should be there and it should work.

After running sysgen but before running the resulting sysgen.com script, edit 
config.mac.  Look for the line that mentions PR11 and change the 0 to 1, then 
the next line (PP11) also 0 change to 1.  While you're there, if you want 
DECtape, change TC11 (just above PR11) to be the number of DECtape drives.  
Typically that's an even number because a TU56 has two DECtape drives in it.

paul

I followed the steps Paul provided with Christian's clarification and am 
now able to copy files to the paper tape punch device PP:...


$ copy instal.log pp:
[File INSTAL.LOG copied to PP:[1,2]]

The ptp.txt file on the host now contains the contents of instal.log 
from rsts/e. Woohoo, half way there...


but copying files from PR: doesn't seem to work:
$ copy pr: hello.mac
?Device hung or write locked - file PR:??.???

I tried PR0: as well, same result. Is the copy command different from 
what I typed? or do I need to enable read on the PR device somehow?


Thanks,

Will


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[Simh] PDP 11/40 or better kit?

[Will Senn]

I just came across a pi+simh driven PDP8/I replica:

http://obsolescence.wix.com/obsolescence#!pidp-8/cbie

Is there anything similar for 11/40 or 11/70 or etc? I've seen software 
versions and program on a chip versions like pdp2011:

http://pdp2011.sytse.net/wordpress/pdp-11/

but, this is an actual physical represenation at less than $140 bucks 
that can play space war with the addition of an hdmi monitor (20 bucks) 
and I was wondering if anyone knew of a physical replica system of the 
11/40 or better.


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

On 1/5/16 7:14 PM, Paul Koning wrote:

Yes, RSTS does support those.  I don't know why Sysgen doesn't ask.  It doesn't 
ask about DECtape, either.  Perhaps they are no longer officially supported, 
but the software should be there and it should work.

After running sysgen but before running the resulting sysgen.com script, edit 
config.mac.  Look for the line that mentions PR11 and change the 0 to 1, then 
the next line (PP11) also 0 change to 1.  While you're there, if you want 
DECtape, change TC11 (just above PR11) to be the number of DECtape drives.  
Typically that's an even number because a TU56 has two DECtape drives in it.
Wow, thanks, learning more and more with each passing day about this 
nifty os. The option is there if I run sysgen after I've installed the 
system and I don't mind editing the config.mac file at all. Is it 
possible to edit the file while the sysgen monitor is running, during 
the install, before it builds? As far as I can tell, there is not a 
chance to customize the install outside of the dialogues, while it's 
running.


I'm not that familiar with RSTS, but in unix, I could background the 
installer, make my edits, pull the installer back into the foreground 
and continue.


Thanks,

Will

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[Simh] RSTS/E 10.1-L and Paper tape

[Will Senn]

All,

The simulated paper tape device is very handy to copy text around 
between a host and simulated environment. My question for the group is, 
does RSTS/E 10.1-L support the paper tape device? The documentation is 
sketchy about it but does make a rare reference to PP: and PR: (help for 
SYSTAT for example), but it wasn't a question during sysgen and I can't 
figure out how to copy files to it. In RT-11, it's as simple as copy 
whatever PC: or copy PC: whatever...


Thanks,

Will
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Re: [Simh] exit fig-forth monitor in RST/E

[Will Senn]

On 1/3/16 3:56 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
I wonder if it's documented in some obscure spot, or if we neglected 
to do so. The answer is: the word "CCL" passes the string that follows 
to RSTS as a command to execute. So any CCL command (anything added 
with define/command/system) will work. Normally "switch" is such a 
command, so you would do "ccl switch" (or the equivalent "ccl switch 
dcl"). 


Awesome, it works!


I suspect there's a reason that FORTH.RTS is sitting in UNSUPP$:
(unsupported utilities)...

Actually, it's because I ported it to RSTS as an internal tool, and managed to 
get it shipped so long as DEC wouldn't have to support it.  There are two FORTH 
programs that should be included: one is ODT which is like the Basic ODT tool 
except that it handles large files, and the other is SDA which is an 
interactive crashdump analyzer inspired by (but not derived from) the VMS tool 
by that name.  I don't remember if the sources are distributed; if not, SDA 
does have a HELP command that should give you some ideas.

This Forth implementation is a port of Fig-FORTH by John S. James, with some 
RSTS-specific magic added.  I just realized the file header says that it is in 
the public domain, so I suppose I should post the source...

paul




That would be fantastic.

Thanks,

Will
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[Simh] exit fig-forth monitor in RST/E

[Will Senn]

Hi,

In RSTS V10.1-L (and possibly others) there is a runtime monitor called 
FORTH.4TH Fig-Forth v2.0+. If it is installed as a monitor via:

install /runtime_system
Run-time System: UNSUPP$:FORTH

and set as monitor via:
set job/key=forth

It responds as would a forth REPL:

FIG-FORTH V2.0+

88 88 * .
7744  ok

: SQUARE DUP * ;
 ok
25 SQUARE .
625  ok

But so far as I can tell, there's no way to switch back to DCL or any 
other monitor type. I know that I can kill the job from another session 
(or believe this to be the case), but I was hoping someone would know 
how to exit the Forth monitor.


typing quit, exit, bye (restarts the Forth loop), CTRL-C, X, Z, etc 
don't seem to have the desired effect and the PF keys or F keys don't 
seem to be known to forth. I know this questions is a little sideways of 
being on topic, but maybe there's a key  or mapping that I don't know 
about in SimH for Forth envionments.


Anyone?

Thanks,

Will
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[Simh] Corrupt BASIC-PLUS 2.7 tpc issue in SimH > 3.9

[Will Senn]

The latest incarnation of SimH does not appear to allow the mounting of 
corrupted tpc images, or at least not the one referred to here. I am 
working with RSX11M-Plus v4.6 using instructions located here:

http://pdp2011.sytse.net/wordpress/pdp-11/sessions/rsx-11m-plus/

The instructions for adding BP2 to RSX11M-Plus includes mounting and 
using files from a known partially corrupt tpc image loacted at:

ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsxdists/basic_plus_2_rsx_v2_7.zip

There are some important files on the tape. But the tape mount does not 
succeed in the latest SimH:


sim> *set ts ena*
sim> *att ts0 basic_plus_2_rsx_v2_7.tpc*
sim> *set ts0 format=tpc*
**

In the latest SimH, when you perform these instructions, the tape image 
is loaded as SimH format and the set ts0 format=tpc line errors out with 
'Unit already attached'. Reordering logically using:


sim> set ts ena
sim> set ts0 format=tpc
sim> att ts0 basic_plus_2_rsx_v2_7.tpc

SimH replies with:
TS: unit is read only
Format error

However, in 3.9, the instructions work exactly as described in the first 
set of instruction and the files (that are

not corrupted) are then accessible in RSX11M-Plus.

As a workaround, I'm using SimH 3.9 to perform the sysgen, etc. and will 
then use SimH latest because of its slew of improvements.


Does this sound like expected behavior or like an issue with the post 
3.9 SimH? If so, I'll gladly open an issue, but it's weird enough, that 
I thought I would ask first.


Thanks,

Will







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Re: [Simh] Multiple telnet ports in SimH to RSTS/E 9.6

[Will Senn]

On 12/31/15 2:10 PM, Will Senn wrote:


Paul Koning set me straight on figuring out that DZ, as configured, 
was actually working. Duh, press RETURN twice to get BAUD detected 
properly, then all is right in the world. The other devices might work 
too, but since DZ worked, I'm happy.


Thanks for responding.

Will

Oh. And one other thing. Not only do you have to press enter twice, for 
BAUD rate, but the main console session has be be started and 
timesharing/system startup has to be finished before you can attach 
another telnet session. I think this may have been the problem I was 
having originally rather than the BAUD rate. I had started the telnet 
session and booted the disk, but I hadn't started timesharing, when I 
fired up telnet on port 10001.


Will


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Re: [Simh] SIMH console settings for escape sequence support

[Will Senn]

On 12/31/15 6:19 PM, Mark Pizzolato wrote:

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Paul Koning wrote:

I've noticed that terminal handling on the SIMH console with RSTS/E was
never quite right; it would not do "set terminal/inquire" and editing keys that
produce escape sequences would be mangled.

This turns out to be due to the "printable control characters" configuration
setting.  Its default value does not include ESC as a printable character, so it
gets discarded rather than sent to the terminal window.

To fix this, use the following SIMH command:

set console pchar=0123600

With that setting, escape sequences work properly on the console.
Something similar probably applies to other operating systems and processor
types, if they use escape sequences on the console terminal.  The pchar
value is octal on PDP11 and other machines that are conventionally octal; it's
hex on VAX and other hex machines, so adjust the "set" command
accordingly.

Thanks for pointing this out.

The PCHAR mask is actually only used when the terminal device (console)
is in 7B or UC mode.  The PDP11 defaults to 7B mode.  The VAX simulators
default to 8B mode.

In the interest of fewer problems in the future for various folks, the
default PCHAR mask has now been changed to include ESC and ENQ in
addition to the previous BEL, BS, TAB, LF and CR.  The output produced
by SHOW CONSOLE PCHAR has also been enriched to display the names
of the characters which are included in the mask.



Awesome. Thanks for making the changes.

Will
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