Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Of course it wasn't then a written document but an oral tradition and a model of a working democracy from which the founding fathers drew more than heavily Jess > From: Walt Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:41:04 -0800 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution > > At 10:57 AM 2/15/2005, you wrote: >> Has anyone else ever seen a copy of the Six Nations Constitution? > > It's hard to imagine that any such document could exist. The > agreement was formulated sometime between 1200 and 1500, long before the > Six Nations had a way to write such an agreement down. Any document > prepared in modern times would be analogous to a modern copy of the works > of Homer; i.e. the product of a long oral tradition separating the author > from the present age. > > Walt > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Splenda/sucralose toxic
Dear Eagle,
I was not advocating the use of the little pink
packets that contain saccahrin which indeed is a
carcinogenic. Splenda comes in yellow packets. As far
a reading about food products on the internet I'll
trust the Center for Science in the Public Interest,
before I'll listen to someone making a fortune selling
books containing nutritional scare stories.
First, CSPI is little better than Mercola. I wouldn't trust either of them.
Second, saccharin in NOT a carcinogen in humans. We've been over this
before. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/25027/
It causes cancer in male rats by a mechanism that *does* *not* *exist*
in humans. Briefly, at high doses, saccharin alters the chemistry of rat
urine, resulting in the formation of a precipitate. This precipitate
damages the cells lining the bladder of the rat ("urinary bladder
urothelial cytotoxicity"). Consequently, a tumor forms when the cells
lining the bladder regenerate ("regenerative hyperplasia".)
Simply put, the chemistry that causes this to occur is unique to the rat
and does not occur in humans, mice or primates. Moreover, even in rats,
formation of this precipitate requires high doses of saccharin,
somewhere around the order of 3% of dietary intake.
According to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, part of
the World Health Organization, "Saccharin and its salts was downgraded
from Group 2B, possibly carcinogenic to humans, to Group 3, not
classifiable as to carcinogenicity to humans, despite sufficient
evidence of carcinogenicity to animals, because it is carcinogenic by a
non-DNA-reactive mechanism that is not relevant to humans because of
critical interspecies differences in urine composition."
In summary, the scientific community, as well as the American Cancer
Society, the American Dietetic Association, the American Medical
Association, the American Diabetes Association, and the IARC
believe saccharin does not present a health risk in humans.
The FDA was just a little behind the curve...
jh
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[Biofuel] Minnesota Seeks 20 Percent Biofuels Requirement
URL: http://www.newrules.org/de/archives/36.html January 28, 2005 Minnesota Seeks 20 Percent Biofuels Requirement The state of Minnesota is considering adopting a stricter mandate for biofuels content in the state's gasoline supplies. A handful of bills have been introduced at the legislature to implement a 20 percent goal. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto...
YAY!!! Thanks for the blow by blow, so exciting, Keith. Dazzling pleasure to see this. We absorb and assemble... Cheers, -Jesse > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:12:45 +0900 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Biofuel] Kyoto... > > ... in which prefecture we live and operate Journey to Forever, and > which has lent its name to the Kyoto Protocol, which finally after > seven years became official yesterday, 16 February 2005. > > From the AP coverage at CNN: > >> The agreement, negotiated in Japan's ancient capital of Kyoto in >> 1997 and ratified, accepted, approved or assented by 141 nations >> including the European Union (EU), officially went into force at >> midnight New York time (0500 GMT). >> [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] anyone surprised?
http://www.wastenews.com/headlines2.html?id=1108581675 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Kyoto...
which has lent its name to the Kyoto Protocol, which finally after seven years became official yesterday, 16 February 2005. From the AP coverage at CNN: The agreement, negotiated in Japan's ancient capital of Kyoto in 1997 and ratified, accepted, approved or assented by 141 nations including the European Union (EU), officially went into force at midnight New York time (0500 GMT). Environmental officials, gathered in the convention hall where the accord was adopted, hailed the protocol as a historic first step in the battle against global warming and urged the world to further strengthen safeguards against greenhouse gases. "Today is a day of celebration and also a day to renew our resolve ... to combat global warming," said Hiroshi Ohki, former Japanese environment minister and president of the conference that negotiated the protocol. [more] http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/02/16/kyoto.ap/ Kyoto accord takes effect Feb 16, 2005 Also: http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=reutersEdge&stor yID=2005-02-16T160311Z_01_JON550128_RTRUKOC_0_ENVIRONMENT-KYOTO.xml Reuters.co.uk Kyoto treaty comes into force Wed Feb 16, 2005 http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?section=FOCUS&oid=68639 ABS-CBNNEWS.COM Thursday, February 17, 2005 Kyoto Protocol comes into force after 7 yrs http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=37432 Climate warnings, pressure on US as Kyoto takes effect PARIS, Feb 16 (AFP) And so on. I've been watching all this for 13 years now, well longer, but in 1992 I did a major publishing job at the final, ministerial-level UN climate-change conference that preceded the Rio Earth Summit. We produced an online (via GreenNet) conference newspaper for a world coalition of NGOs at the conference, held for two weeks in Nairobi prior to the Rio "Earth Summit". The NGOs had observer status, and we put the paper online (courtesy of Apple) every evening, sending it worldwide for local re-distribution by NGOs in each country. By the following morning we'd received their feedback for inclusion in the next edition, which was in hardcopy on all the official delegates' tables when they arrived for the day. Very effective. Advanced for those days - the online version had graphics and layout etc, not just text. Lots of firsts in that operation. This conference was supposed to produce a firm and binding commitment by national governments to take action against global warming, and this commitment was intended to be the centrepiece of the forthcoming Rio Summit. Of course it produced no such thing, just lots of fine words, nothing binding, no commitment. Rather like Rio, in fact. So I didn't go to the Earth Summit. Refused to go, rather. I've regarded all such official events since then with some scepticism. Anyway, Midori and I went to the Kyoto Convention Hall last night, to the "celebrations", as it was called. The city is about an hour and a half from here so we missed the first speeches, by Ohki and Joke Walker-Hunter, executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, but we caught Kenya's Nobel Laureate Wangari Maathai's speech and the rest. All very upbeat, good reason to celebrate, a decisive victory for multilateralism and so on, with cautions expressed that it was just a first step, much more would be needed. A common theme was that the "developed" nations with their resources and technology would take the lead in combating the problem, with due assistance to resource-challenged 3rd World nations that would bear the brunt of the damage. I started getting impatient with this: take the lead? How about taking the responsibility? No, no - all very bland and polite, all false sacred cows duly to be honoured, no applecarts to be upset. We listened with growing astonishment as each of the distinguished panellists talked around the one main glaring fact of the matter without ever naming it - the absence of the United States. Several of them mentioned it - "the world's biggest polluter, accounting for 25% of emissions" - but not by name! Two major absentees, they said, the other one being China, also not named, and no mention of or reference to India and Australia. I began to see the outline of a lot of horse-trading behind these mostly-bland presentations, and started to wonder whether they'd open the discussions to the floor, or have an open question-and-answer session. And indeed they did - imagine the row over the probable proposal to set it up, with stooges in the audience chosen for their pre-set and safe questions! But no: they only left time for two questions from the floor (also arranged?) but they were genuine enough. The first was by a Japanese man from Osaka, a member of an NGO, who demanded to know why the US and China had not been named, calling for a frank and honest approach to the problem or it could not succeed. He also said Japan was itself to blame for backing inappropriate
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Has anyone else ever seen a copy of the Six Nations Constitution? It's hard to imagine that any such document could exist. The agreement was formulated sometime between 1200 and 1500, long before the Six Nations had a way to write such an agreement down. Any document prepared in modern times would be analogous to a modern copy of the works of Homer; i.e. the product of a long oral tradition separating the author from the present age. Walt ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol stove and barbeque
Ethanol vapor? Am I the only one looking for a hole in the ground around here? I'm taking the pup's down the hole with me John, just in case! Seriously, I am building BBQ's to earn some "extra" money this year. (Whatever extra money means???) I would like to offer you an alternative to your current plans. Before I do however, I have to say that IMHO this is not something I would ever consider doing myself. Why? Two reasons. First, I don't like cooking over, or with, any fuel but wood, or charcoal. That might not be the "correct" way to be, but it's me. I have tried other fuels, and frankly don't see the point in BBQing if I am going to cook with them. Secondly, any fuel that can operate a motor vehicle, does not need to be used to cook dinner. Having said that, I'll do my best to try to help. Have you considered indirect heating for your BBQ? The primary benefit, in your case, being the exhaust gases from the consumed fuel would be vented to the atmosphere, as opposed to your dinner! I'm afraid I do not know the extent of your plans, only what is in this posting, so I do not know if you plan on building your own cooker/pit, or just want to supply your own fuel. If you are building your own cooker, consider designing it with an offset/independent firebox that has it's own flue. Depending on your needs, these can be designed to supply any heat requirements up to, and including, grilling! Drawbacks? IMO, if you are building it yourself, #1 has got to be the metal working skill level required, as well as the specialized tools involved. But if you can weld, and if you can use a cutting torch reasonably well, a project like building a suitable cooker with an offset firebox can certainly be done. AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: "John Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:55 AM Subject: [Biofuel] ethanol stove and barbeque > >An ethanol BBQ ? You do know what you are >doing right ? This is not a gas > >gas, it is a liquid gas, like gasoline, and in fact can >be substituted for > gasoline in many applications. > > (REPLY) > Nope! I don't know what I am doing this is all experimentation. If I ever > get a chance to try it. I plan to turn the gas alchol into a vapor gas by > running it through a coil and heating it to form vapour the way a colman > white gas stove works. If that works then I plan to mix it to give it extra > BTU"s. The compressor will have a regulator to make sure the pressure does > not go beyond 15 lbs in the tank. All still in the mind! All still > experimental. I would just like the chance to try it. I also plan to but > check valves on the hose to prevent blow back. > > Yours truly > John Wilson > Goldens > *** > Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) > > Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm > Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm > Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm > http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm > > > In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . > After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. > > > ^^^ > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
author would prefer. First, if the author is going to give references, how about not giving an entire littany of books. And notice the source of the littany no less. No bias or bent there, eh? Generally page and paragraph are sufficient. Leave it to those who would like to further indoctrinate others in their peculiar perceptions to force them to weed through multiple volumes of mental briars, brambles, doctrine and manipulations to find the frisbee. Second, the author slightly oversteps reality in the last half of the very first paragraph, when he states that "there is no question about [the states] being founded on Christian principles." Uh...did the author just conveniently forget that most of the colonies (they weren't really calling them states until the mid-1770's) were founded on principles of economic investment and return? Do you think that he could spell "Massachusetts Bay Company," or the numerous other ongoing concerns? Surely he's not saying that pursuit of monetary gain is a Christian principle. Or is he? That would be slightly contradictory to the vignette of the money changers in the temple, now wouldn't it? And with that "minor" oversight he has the gall to accuse the author of the article he's attempting to discredit of "not [having] done a thorough study of American history as it relates to its founding documents? It would appear that he's the one that hasn't researched too many founding charters. Third, the author interprets "Year of our Lord" according to his own fancy. The term "lord" is rather all encompassing in the bible, not to mention general societal references, whether contemporary or historical, social or spiritual. To attribute the term to but one leaf of the triune clover is a bit deceptive. While it may work for the author, it would be contextually inaccurate with great frequency. And then DeMar chooses to largely forego what was actually written by Brooke Allen, not to mention the very words of the founders whom he's attempting to enlist in his convoluted attempt at persuasion. So what of this? The French revolutionaries reconstructed the seven-day biblical week and turned it into a ten-day metric week in hopes of ridding the nation of every vestige of Christianity. Nothing like this was done in America. Might the refrain on the part of the founding fathers have had something to do with lunar rhythms (seven days) instead of lunacy (abandonment of natural cycles)? Or might it have something to do with a founding principle of inclusion, rather than exclusion? DeMar seems to think, or at least wish others to think, that anything which rubs against a horse must necessarily be a horse. Then, wonder of wonders, DeMar further jumps the tracks with the body of the paragraph that starts, "The U. S. Constitution’s lack of a Christian designation had little to do with a radical secular agenda." Rather than addressing the individual beliefs of the founding fathers as Allen did, he not only creates a strawman on which to focus, but completely sidesteps that part of the Allen's thesis and brings in 'evidence to the contrary' which has essentially nothing to do with their personal holdings. And the reader is expected to continue reading in this thick haze of intentionally layed smoke and obfuscation? Apparently Mr. DeMar is so accustomed to preaching to the choir that he must think that everyone else is simply going to nod their heads accordingly rather than exercising a prudent measure of discernment. Thank you no. Humans aren't sheep and this nation was founded upon on a good bit more than "one way" principles. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "robert luis rabello" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution Ken Provost wrote: A breath of fresh air -- thanks! Having been an unabashed atheist for 90% of my long life, it's great to know that my hero Tom Jefferson wasn't even a real Deist (as I've always been taught), much less an X-tian like our rulers would have you believe. 'Course Tom has almost been drummed out of the Founding Father's Klub already, and our Revolution has been renamed the War of Independ- ence for decades now.. While I agree in substance with much of the article Brooke Allen composed, here is a rebuttal that my eldest sister (the one who is happy to stay in Oakland, where she lives) sent for my perusal: http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-09-05.asp Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles? By Gary DeMar “The lesson the President has learned best—and certainly the one that has been the most useful to him—is the axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administration’s current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones. God o
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Hi Stephan, Gruss Gott I concur. I can also relate to what you are saying. Christian symbols in government (like in Bavaria) are everywhere. I happened to be in Vienna on Ash Wednesday a few years ago. I counted the percentage of people who have been to mass that day (easy to do on Ash Wednesday). It was more than 1/3. Despite all that, governments appear to be more secular than in the United States. It seems as though generations of former Europeans growing up in the US have forgotten the atrocities done in the name of religion. ** Strictly my opinion ** Religion is an exercise in faith. Everyone has an interpretation but there is no evidence that everyone can use (or see) that causes them to agree on a particular set of beliefs. So, in my opinion, religion can be the motivation to both help and hurt people, depending on one's interpretation. Based on at least one interpretation, even the bible shows both sides of the same coin. Teach a man to fish and he can become healthy enough to stone his wife. Mike stephan torak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear fellow enthusiasts, please forgive me, again, for interfering with your truly excellent discourse on the American heritage. I am a naturalized citizen, from Austria, and I studied things American in great quantity at our University in Vienna before I finally came over here in the hand luggage of a liberal school teacher from California. I became a US citizen as one of those who are willing to pick up the luggage and carry it, too. Funny, how this discourse on the authors of the constitution and their religious angles and beliefs just couldn't be happening in Europe (well Austria, anyway) because we know they were all practicing Catholics. But for Europeans of today to try to write ones' religious beliefs and Dogma into the constitution, no way, or to argue whether the constitution is following Christian principles, or for a presidential candidate to announce that he is or is not a practicing whatever, so who would listen to that? And who would vote for someone who puts so much emphasis on this issue? After a recent visit I vividly remember a bunch of kids sitting in the subway in Vienna discussing robotics projects and micro controllers and the girl, maybe 12 ys old saying that she hoped her parents wouldn't make her go to the Mosque again next weekend, speaking without any accent. I don't know my friends, it just drives home to me the need to set aside this self righteousness that plagues America and to concentrate on furthering the peace (now that sounds like a Christian principle, doesn't it) and to talk of some REAL ISSUES, and I believe this is exactly what we are doing most of the time. . So, I have no intention to move back to Europe, but I do want to make BD and I discussed with my son (14) your article on the constitution just to instill some healthy scepticism in the boy. Thank you immensly for your work, Gentlemen.! Regards, Stephan > Ken Provost wrote: > > >> >> A breath of fresh air -- thanks! Having been an >> unabashed atheist for 90% of my long life, it's >> great to know that my hero Tom Jefferson wasn't >> even a real Deist (as I've always been taught), >> much less an X-tian like our rulers would have you >> believe. 'Course Tom has almost been drummed out >> of the Founding Father's Klub already, and our >> Revolution has been renamed the War of Independ- >> ence for decades now.. > > > While I agree in substance with much of the article Brooke Allen > composed, here is a rebuttal that my eldest sister (the one who is > happy to stay in Oakland, where she lives) sent for my perusal: > > http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-09-05.asp > > Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles? > By Gary DeMar > > The lesson the President has learned bestand certainly the one that > has been the most useful to himis the axiom that if you repeat a lie > often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administrations > current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on > Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian > principles but on Enlightenment ones. God only entered the picture as > a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent. Thus > begins an article by Brooke Allen that was posted on the website of > The Nation on February 3, 2005.1 Its obvious that Allen has not > done a thorough study of American history as it relates to its > founding documents. There is much more to Americas founding than the > Constitution. America was not born in 1877 or even in 1776. The > Constitution did not create America, America created the Constitution. > More specifically, the states created the national government. The > states (colonial governments) were a reality long before the > Constitution was conceived, and there is no question about their being > founded on Christian principles. > > Allen
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Keith et. al.,
When you quote Frank Zappa from the first Frank Zappa album I ever
purchased and listened to from beginning to end (rinse, repeat,) it
reminds me that when folks start publically espouse their faith, keep
one hand on your wallet and the other on your wife (or husband.) They
want something from you and they will do anything to get it.
When they start bringing it into politics they are more determined to
take it rather than ask. "Become a member of the flock or you will
not get your government funds for "
Religion and politics bring out the absolute worst in people!!
Perhaps that is why it should be avoided by people as a general rule.
(And no, I am not an Athiest.)
fred
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:42:40 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-09-05.asp
> > >
> > >Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles?
> > >By Gary DeMar
> > >
> >
> >Its interesting to note that this article makes the very foolish
> >leap from god to jesus. God is referenced several times but jesus
> >is only refernced 3 times and the author claims that the words lord
> >and god really mean jesus.
> >
> >Further, the bulk of christian principles are also reflected in
> >every other major (and minor) religon. So, while the country was
> >founded by primarily christians, and such principles were present, I
> >read the message authors like DeMar are sending as, "We should
> >emulate the Bible and as such persecute those who don't endorse it."
> >
> >Last I checked, my country (USA) was founded on principles that
> >stood in defiance of just such persecutions.
>
> Aarghhh! I can't stand it! I just got to do this...
>
> From previous:
>
> >I don't think we can casually dismiss
> >these folks as a minor fruitcake fringe anymore.
>
> Only now???
>
> Let's go back 23.5 years, to...
>
> Frank Zappa, September 1981
>
> Dumb All Over
> http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/lyrics/You_Are_What_You_Is.html#Dumb
>
> Whoever we are
> Wherever we're from
> We shoulda noticed by now
> Our behavior is dumb
> And if our chances
> Expect to improve
> It's gonna take a lot more
> Than tryin' to remove
> The other race
> Or the other whatever
> From the face
> Of the planet altogether
>
> They call it THE EARTH
> Which is a dumb kinda name
> But they named it right
> 'Cause we behave the same . . .
> We are dumb all over
> Dumb all over,
> Yes we are
> Dumb all over,
> Near 'n far
> Dumb all over,
> Black 'n white
> People, we is not wrapped tight
>
> Nurds on the left
> Nurds on the right
> Religious fanatics
> On the air every night
> Sayin' the Bible
> Tells the story
> 'N makes the details
> Sound real gory
> 'Bout what to do
> If the geeks over there
> Don't believe in the book
> We got over here
>
> You can't run a race
> Without no feet
> 'N pretty soon
> There won't be no street
> For dummies to jog on
> Or doggies to dog on
> Religious fanatics
> Can make it be all gone
> (I mean it won't blow up
> 'N disappear
> It'll just look ugly
> For a thousand years . . . )
>
> You can't run a country
> By a book of religion
> Not by a heap
> Or a lump or a smidgeon
> Of foolish rules
> Of ancient date
> Designed to make
> You all feel great
> While you fold, spindle
> And mutilate
> Those unbelievers
> From a neighboring state
>
> TO ARMS! TO ARMS!
> Hooray! That's great
> Two legs ain't bad
> Unless there's a crate
> They ship the parts
> To mama in
> For souvenirs: two ears (Get Down!)
> Not his, not hers (but what the hey?)
> The Good Book says:
> "It gotta be that way!"
> But their book says:
> "REVENGE THE CRUSADES . . .
> With whips 'n chains
> 'N hand grenades . . . "
> TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS?
> Have another and another
> Our God says:
> "There ain't no other!"
> Our God says
> "It's all okay!"
> Our God says
> "This is the way!"
>
> It says in the book:
> "Burn 'n destroy . . .
> 'N repent, 'n redeem
> 'N revenge, 'n deploy
> 'N rumble thee forth
> To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
> 'Cause they don't go for what's in the book
> 'N that makes 'em BAD
> So verily we must choppeth them up
> And stompeth them down
> Or rent a nice French bomb
> To poof them out of existance
> While leaving their real estate just where we need it
> To use again
> For temples in which to praise
> OUR GOD
> ("Cause he can really take care of business!")
>
> And when his humble TV servant
> With humble white hair
> And humble glasses
> And a nice brown suit
> And maybe a blonde wife who takes phone calls
> Tells us our God says
> It's okay to do this stuff
> Then we gotta do it,
> 'Cause if we don't do it,
> We ain't gwine up to hebbin!
> (Depending on which book you're using at the time . . . Can't use
> theirs . . . it don't work . . . it's all lies . . . Gotta use mine .
> . . )
> Ain't that right?
> That's what they say
> Every night . . .
> Every day . . .
> Hey, we can't really be dumb
> If we're just following God's Orders
> Hey
[Biofuel] ethanol stove and barbeque
>An ethanol BBQ ? You do know what you are >doing right ? This is not a gas >gas, it is a liquid gas, like gasoline, and in fact can >be substituted for gasoline in many applications. (REPLY) Nope! I don't know what I am doing this is all experimentation. If I ever get a chance to try it. I plan to turn the gas alchol into a vapor gas by running it through a coil and heating it to form vapour the way a colman white gas stove works. If that works then I plan to mix it to give it extra BTU"s. The compressor will have a regulator to make sure the pressure does not go beyond 15 lbs in the tank. All still in the mind! All still experimental. I would just like the chance to try it. I also plan to but check valves on the hose to prevent blow back. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
>
>Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles?
>By Gary DeMar
>
Its interesting to note that this article makes the very foolish
leap from god to jesus. God is referenced several times but jesus
is only refernced 3 times and the author claims that the words lord
and god really mean jesus.
Further, the bulk of christian principles are also reflected in
every other major (and minor) religon. So, while the country was
founded by primarily christians, and such principles were present, I
read the message authors like DeMar are sending as, "We should
emulate the Bible and as such persecute those who don't endorse it."
Last I checked, my country (USA) was founded on principles that
stood in defiance of just such persecutions.
Aarghhh! I can't stand it! I just got to do this...
From previous:
I don't think we can casually dismiss
these folks as a minor fruitcake fringe anymore.
Only now???
Let's go back 23.5 years, to...
Frank Zappa, September 1981
Dumb All Over
http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/lyrics/You_Are_What_You_Is.html#Dumb
Whoever we are
Wherever we're from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
It's gonna take a lot more
Than tryin' to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether
They call it THE EARTH
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
'Cause we behave the same . . .
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near 'n far
Dumb all over,
Black 'n white
People, we is not wrapped tight
Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religious fanatics
On the air every night
Sayin' the Bible
Tells the story
'N makes the details
Sound real gory
'Bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Don't believe in the book
We got over here
You can't run a race
Without no feet
'N pretty soon
There won't be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religious fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(I mean it won't blow up
'N disappear
It'll just look ugly
For a thousand years . . . )
You can't run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state
TO ARMS! TO ARMS!
Hooray! That's great
Two legs ain't bad
Unless there's a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (Get Down!)
Not his, not hers (but what the hey?)
The Good Book says:
"It gotta be that way!"
But their book says:
"REVENGE THE CRUSADES . . .
With whips 'n chains
'N hand grenades . . . "
TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS?
Have another and another
Our God says:
"There ain't no other!"
Our God says
"It's all okay!"
Our God says
"This is the way!"
It says in the book:
"Burn 'n destroy . . .
'N repent, 'n redeem
'N revenge, 'n deploy
'N rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
'Cause they don't go for what's in the book
'N that makes 'em BAD
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice French bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise
OUR GOD
("Cause he can really take care of business!")
And when his humble TV servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blonde wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our God says
It's okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
'Cause if we don't do it,
We ain't gwine up to hebbin!
(Depending on which book you're using at the time . . . Can't use
theirs . . . it don't work . . . it's all lies . . . Gotta use mine .
. . )
Ain't that right?
That's what they say
Every night . . .
Every day . . .
Hey, we can't really be dumb
If we're just following God's Orders
Hey, Let's get serious . . .
God knows what he's doin' . . .
He wrote this book here
An' the book says:
"He made us all to be just like Him," so . . .
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little ugly on the side)
DUMB ALL OVER
A LITTLE UGLY ON THE SIDE
More...
http://www.getlyrical.com/lyrics.html?Type=Song&Id=44016
Lyrics for ZAPPA FRANK
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT NOTHING
http://www.getlyrical.com/lyrics.html?Type=Song&Id=44019
Lyrics for ZAPPA FRANK
HEAVENLY BANK ACCOUNT
___
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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: BioD test batch
You are awfully quick to assume something is bad based on its name. Not quick, certainly not awfully so - slow and exceedingly patient, in this case, despite immense provocation, but it came to an end eventually, as it had to. Why do you say it's quick? What do you know about the background to this to jumpt to that conclusion? What do you know about the Dr Pepper method to be condemning so quickly? Again, why "so quickly"? Trying to make a point? Sounds like a now-familiar refrain from you, Mr Foxtrot. Are you able to follow a link yet? Can your emailer show you "quotes" yet (previous messages) after five months of figuring it out or do I have to reformat it all for you? Uh, sorry, not going to do that, if you can't read it check it out at the list archives: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/ The Biofuel Archives Anyway, the link, all about the promoter of so-called methods named "Dr Pepper" - careful now, there are links within links, if you really want to know you'll have to "drill down" deeper than your usual single level: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/42146/1 Just to make it easier for you here's the main second-level url: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biodiesel/message/4254 I guess it's all lost on you though, since you can't seem to see why there just might be something amiss about buying stuff (whether paying or believing) from cheats and liars. I suggest you stop grinding your axe, Andy. I strongly suggest it. Keith Andy On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:04:35 +0900, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Thank you > > > >(snip) > > > >>I will cross reference your methoxide mix with my numbers as I have > >>undertaken the same experiments comparing different processes > >>(batch, two stage, acid base). However, from my experiences, my > >>biod is cloudy after 1 hour of stiring but will settle out rather > >>well over night (12+ hours). Furthermore, after seperation I let > >>it settle another day (I get some more glyc on the bottom of the > >>glass flask). By this time its quite clear. > > > >My two batches have been settling to several days with no > >appreciable change in clarity. Some more details. The Methanol I > >used is technical grade and is labeled at 99.5%. The KOH is lab > >grade is supposed to be 99% or better. The KOH has been open to the > >air only a very little bit and seems to be still flaky and dry with > >no clumps. > > > >I going to try washing it with the dr pepper method to see what happens. > > In the biodiesel world, anything called "Dr Pepper" is not a method > and is to be avoided. > > Best wishes > > Keith > > > >Would you mind sharing your test batch process with me/us? Are you > >using NaOH or KOH? New oil? What numbers? > > > >Many thanks, > > > >Dana ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making
You should be able to use the left over lye in the glycerin layer to make soap, but it may end up have way too much glycerin in it and end up be drying for the skin. Andy On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:40:12 -0500, Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Glycerin can be added to any soap. But it can't be used to make soap. > > Glycerol is an alcohol. Fats/oils are required to make soap. > > Todd Swearingen > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:39 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making > > > > > can some glycerin be added to new oil to make a soap? > > Farmer Paul > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ___ > > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > > Now includes pop-up blocker! > > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > > > ___ > > Biofuel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Bill in VA
Tried my first 1 liter test batch using new soy oil, biggest problem seemed to be drawing off the oil after washing without getting some of the white stuff, will try different method. Second batch was using dark, over used , cruddy wvo. PH meter read 5.34 so used 8.34 grams lye in 200ml menthanol , lye was all dissolved then added to oil at 55C after 15 minutes mix in blender I poured it into glass jar and knew I was in trouble. There was a scum on the oil . After 24 hrs. at room temp it is one glob with no discernable separation. Any comments, be nice. Jerry ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Biofuel bill
fuel and replaces teh sulphur compounds in that way. Using straight biodiesel can be a problem in that it cleans all the muck off the inside of the tank and blocks the filters when first used. The problem is short-term. When the muck is cleaned off, then the biodiesel is as clean as any standard pump fuel. In winter it can also cause problems since it gels at a higher temperature. Biodiesel is chemically different. It is an ester, not a straight-chain hydrocarbon. -- Simon Fowler MADUR ELECTRONICS Voitgasse 4 A-1220 Vienna Phone: + 43-1-2584502 Fax: + 43-1-2584502-22 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our homepage: www.madur.com, www.madurusa.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: BioD test batch
Keith, You are awfully quick to assume something is bad based on its name. What do you know about the Dr Pepper method to be condemning so quickly? Andy On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:04:35 +0900, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Thank you > > > >(snip) > > > >>I will cross reference your methoxide mix with my numbers as I have > >>undertaken the same experiments comparing different processes > >>(batch, two stage, acid base). However, from my experiences, my > >>biod is cloudy after 1 hour of stiring but will settle out rather > >>well over night (12+ hours). Furthermore, after seperation I let > >>it settle another day (I get some more glyc on the bottom of the > >>glass flask). By this time its quite clear. > > > >My two batches have been settling to several days with no > >appreciable change in clarity. Some more details. The Methanol I > >used is technical grade and is labeled at 99.5%. The KOH is lab > >grade is supposed to be 99% or better. The KOH has been open to the > >air only a very little bit and seems to be still flaky and dry with > >no clumps. > > > >I going to try washing it with the dr pepper method to see what happens. > > In the biodiesel world, anything called "Dr Pepper" is not a method > and is to be avoided. > > Best wishes > > Keith > > > >Would you mind sharing your test batch process with me/us? Are you > >using NaOH or KOH? New oil? What numbers? > > > >Many thanks, > > > >Dana > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making
Paul, Do you mean glycerin or the glycerin layer as there is a big difference? Andy On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:19:28 -0800 (PST), [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > can some glycerin be added to new oil to make a soap? > Farmer Paul > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Ethanol from glycerin
Anybody achieved this the result of the absolute alcohol process? JD2005 P.S. I saw a Duralog product for sale at our local hardware store, here in Banbury near Oxford, UK.Easy to light burns for two hours!I was reminded of the milk carton, wood shavings and glycerin log detailed at Jfe, however, I couldn't read the constituants of the product because they were in german or jpanese or some language. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
with your truly excellent discourse on the American heritage. I am a naturalized citizen, from Austria, and I studied things American in great quantity at our University in Vienna before I finally came over here in the hand luggage of a liberal school teacher from California. I became a US citizen as one of those who are willing to pick up the luggage and carry it, too. Funny, how this discourse on the authors of the constitution and their religious angles and beliefs just couldn't be happening in Europe (well Austria, anyway) because we know they were all practicing Catholics. But for Europeans of today to try to write ones' religious beliefs and Dogma into the constitution, no way, or to argue whether the constitution is following Christian principles, or for a presidential candidate to announce that he is or is not a practicing whatever, so who would listen to that? And who would vote for someone who puts so much emphasis on this issue? After a recent visit I vividly remember a bunch of kids sitting in the subway in Vienna discussing robotics projects and micro controllers and the girl, maybe 12 ys old saying that she hoped her parents wouldn't make her go to the Mosque again next weekend, speaking without any accent. I don't know my friends, it just drives home to me the need to set aside this self righteousness that plagues America and to concentrate on furthering the peace (now that sounds like a Christian principle, doesn't it) and to talk of some REAL ISSUES, and I believe this is exactly what we are doing most of the time. . So, I have no intention to move back to Europe, but I do want to make BD and I discussed with my son (14) your article on the constitution just to instill some healthy scepticism in the boy. Thank you immensly for your work, Gentlemen.! Regards, Stephan Ken Provost wrote: A breath of fresh air -- thanks! Having been an unabashed atheist for 90% of my long life, it's great to know that my hero Tom Jefferson wasn't even a real Deist (as I've always been taught), much less an X-tian like our rulers would have you believe. 'Course Tom has almost been drummed out of the Founding Father's Klub already, and our Revolution has been renamed the War of Independ- ence for decades now.. While I agree in substance with much of the article Brooke Allen composed, here is a rebuttal that my eldest sister (the one who is happy to stay in Oakland, where she lives) sent for my perusal: http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-09-05.asp Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles? By Gary DeMar “The lesson the President has learned best—and certainly the one that has been the most useful to him—is the axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administration’s current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones. God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent.” Thus begins an article by Brooke Allen that was posted on the website of “The Nation” on February 3, 2005.1 It’s obvious that Allen has not done a thorough study of American history as it relates to its founding documents. There is much more to America’s founding than the Constitution. America was not born in 1877 or even in 1776. The Constitution did not create America, America created the Constitution. More specifically, the states created the national government. The states (colonial governments) were a reality long before the Constitution was conceived, and there is no question about their being founded on Christian principles. Allen’s article is filled with so many half truths that it would take a book to deal with them adequately. For those of you who are new to the work of American Vision, there are numerous books on the subject that easily refute Allen’s assertions. * America’s Christian History: The Untold Story by Gary DeMar (1995). * America’s Christian Heritage by Gary DeMar (2003). * The United States: A Christian Nation by Supreme Court Justice David J. Brewer (1905). * The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States Developed in the Official and Historical Annals of the Republic by B. F. Morris (1864). * Christianity and the American Commonwealth by Charles B. Galloway (1898).2 Here is Allen’s first assertion: “Our Constitution makes no mention whatever of God.” “No mention whatever” is pretty absolute. Given this bold claim, then how does she explain that the Constitution ends with “DONE in the year of our Lord”? “Our Lord” is a reference to Jesus Christ. This phrase appears just above the signature of George Washington, the same George Washington who took the presidential oath of office with his hand on an open Bible, the same George Washington w
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Its interesting to note that this article makes the very foolish leap from god to jesus. There are problems with the article my sister sent to me, as there were with Brooke Allen's essay, but from the perspective of a mainstream Christian, equating Jesus with God would not be among them. There seems to be a great concern in the United States that we have somehow "departed" from the deeply religious beliefs of our founding fathers. Brooke Adams was right to point out, however, that the religious views of early American leadership were profoundly influenced by Enlightenment ideals; much more so than many of us understand or care to admit. Many of these men were Masons, a perspective which has left an indelible mark on the symbols used to represent America. They were NOT Christians in the same sense that my evangelical brethren like to make them. Equating "fundamentalist" Christianity (as it is now practiced in the United States) with men like Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and George Washington removes their clearly articulated thinking from the context in which it should be placed. This historical sublimation (I can't think of another way to express this, and I hope I'll not be misunderstood!) of modern ideas represents a dangerous trend: one that equates "righteousness" with assent and "evil" with dissent. From what I have read of early American political and religious thought, our leadership remained consistently opposed to the idea that the government should become involved in the realm of religion. The Constitution gives clear counsel on this matter. Further, the bulk of christian principles are also reflected in every other major (and minor) religon. So, while the country was founded by primarily christians, and such principles were present, I read the message authors like DeMar are sending as, "We should emulate the Bible and as such persecute those who don't endorse it." The people who founded the United States were Christians, but let me pose some questions: Do national policies reflect Christian principles? (Indeed, have they ever?) Do our courts interpret law in light of Jesus' gospel teaching? Does our leadership espouse the servitude and humility of Jesus Christ? Silly questions? Indeed! I can argue, from a completely secular perspective, that my nation does not, has not, and has NEVER espoused Christianity. Last I checked, my country (USA) was founded on principles that stood in defiance of just such persecutions. Can I say "Amen" to that? robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782> Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
>http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-09-05.asp > >Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles? >By Gary DeMar > Its interesting to note that this article makes the very foolish leap from god to jesus. God is referenced several times but jesus is only refernced 3 times and the author claims that the words lord and god really mean jesus. Further, the bulk of christian principles are also reflected in every other major (and minor) religon. So, while the country was founded by primarily christians, and such principles were present, I read the message authors like DeMar are sending as, "We should emulate the Bible and as such persecute those who don't endorse it." Last I checked, my country (USA) was founded on principles that stood in defiance of just such persecutions. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
on 2/15/05 11:04 PM, Keith Addison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I think I'd not be alone in that, when someone says they're a > Christian, I'd want to know what kind of Christian - an unknown, > variable factor indeed. If I didn't know that, "X-tian" might be > rather apt. "He's religious, he says he's a Christian." > > > Rightwing so-called "fundamentalist" allegedly Christian > dispensationalists who are utterly intolerant and seem to know > nothing of "God is love" or the Sermon on the Mount but rather crave > the destruction of all life and make it soon? Have these people even > read the Gospels? There's not much evidence of it. I've called them > an "evil cult" before this. Christians? I don't think so. Here's an idea -- if you believe that Jesus is gonna come back on a cloud and pull all the true believers (you and your friends) out of their clothes, that God talks to Bush, that gays and socialists are gonna burn in hell for all eternity, etc, etc, you should continue to use the word Christian to describe yourself. If OTOH, you believe that your personal calling in life is to attempt to live according to the teachings of one Yeshua bin Pantera (or possibly Yeshua bin Yusef) as (hopefully) recorded in a particular body of writings called the "Gospel of Jesus Christ", then you call yourself a Yeshuite. In other words, when a word gets co-opted by the opposition, you pick a different word, to avoid being confused with them. Easy. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making
Glycerol is an alcohol. Fats/oils are required to make soap. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making can some glycerin be added to new oil to make a soap? Farmer Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Bill in VA
Hello Caroline, Thanks for the post, but I have to admit to being completely in the dark as to what was actually done. Maybe you can help. Is there a section that you can point me to that "summarizes" what they actually voted against? Or was it simply a matter of voting against voting for now while they await further study? AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA Not sure that they voted against anything, looks to me that the house voted for the bill, which in summary was to propose a study of biodiesel in VA with the intent of possibly fulfilling federal mandates to reduce sulfur in diesel and consider promoting the use and production of biodiesel WHEREAS, the federal government is requiring a reduction in sulfur for most diesel fuels beginning in 2006, which raises concerns whether fuel lubricity and biodiesel in low blends of fuels can be a lubricity option for future diesel fuels; now, therefore, be it and The Secretary of Agriculture and Forestry shall pay particular attention to the capability and desirability of generating a minimum demand of 20 million gallons annually in the Commonwealth. The study should include analysis of the economic impact its use would have on the state, the agricultural community, petroleum marketing and distribution, and biodiesel consumers, as well as the supply of biodiesel fuel and demand for biodiesel fuel in the Commonwealth. The Secretary shall consider the operational impact of biodiesel fuel on (i) engines and engine warranties; (ii) fuel economy; (iii) standards and testing methods of biodiesel fuel; (iv) the energy expended to produce such fuels; (v) the environmental benefits and impacts on air quality in nonattainment areas of the Commonwealth; (vi) the marketing of biodiesel fuel by the agricultural and industrial communities; (vii) the potential for public use within the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions; (viii) its feasibility in cold flow conditions, (ix) tax incentives or credits to promote the use of biodiesel fuel, (x) storage, blending, transportation, and distribution; and (xi) the current supply and potential for biodiesel plants to be located within the Commonwealth. The Secretary shall seek input from interest groups possibly impacted by increased biodiesel fuel use in the Commonwealth, including but not limited to petroleum suppliers, distributors, and transporters; diesel users, such as trucking, rail, bus and fleet vehicles businesses; biodiesel advocacy groups; and agricultural interest groups. The Secretary shall also consider similar studies and reports undertaken or completed in other states. But I wonder about a few of the statements in the bill, perhaps a few of you with more experience could offer suggestions or correct some misinformation on the part of those trying to promote it. WHEREAS, [ biosolids biodiesel ] fuel can be blended with regular diesel fuel for use in internal combustion engines; and Is it not chemically the same thing as fossil diesel and can thus be used "straight" ? WHEREAS, experienced knowledge and research regarding biodiesel fuel is still relatively limited in the nation and the Commonwealth and it is still uncertain whether biodiesel fuel may create operational challenges and problems for users of diesel-powered engines; and Perhaps there are some here with "experienced knowledge" that could educate in this endeavor? I have found that other state's models carry a good deal of weight in new endeavors in state legislature. I am not sure what-why it means that it has been "referred to the committee on rules". Caroline ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Re: BioD test batch
(snip) I will cross reference your methoxide mix with my numbers as I have undertaken the same experiments comparing different processes (batch, two stage, acid base). However, from my experiences, my biod is cloudy after 1 hour of stiring but will settle out rather well over night (12+ hours). Furthermore, after seperation I let it settle another day (I get some more glyc on the bottom of the glass flask). By this time its quite clear. My two batches have been settling to several days with no appreciable change in clarity. Some more details. The Methanol I used is technical grade and is labeled at 99.5%. The KOH is lab grade is supposed to be 99% or better. The KOH has been open to the air only a very little bit and seems to be still flaky and dry with no clumps. I going to try washing it with the dr pepper method to see what happens. In the biodiesel world, anything called "Dr Pepper" is not a method and is to be avoided. Best wishes Keith Would you mind sharing your test batch process with me/us? Are you using NaOH or KOH? New oil? What numbers? Many thanks, Dana ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
G'day Hakan;
- Original Message - From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Luc,
Sorry but my earlier reply was sent by itself and without following comment.
You are right, but I think that many Christians also should learn
"respect or please keep their crap for them self". It is numerous
times that I met representatives for the Christian religion, that
in an abusive way promote their religion and demand respect for it,
without them self having any respect for what others belive in.
This I say, even because my denomination would officially and by
birth be Christian protestant.
I am sorry, but I fail to see in what way Ken did not show respect,
he declared what be belive and did a general comment about
religious variant in general. In mathematics X stand for unknown
denomination
And were we speaking of mathematics I would agree.
and I think that in this case it was meant as such.
You can believe that if you want to,however anyone who has been
around confirmed atheists for any amount of time knows more than
well that the "X" is a lot more than a generic symbol. It is meant
the way it was used. Like "X"mas is.
There's some kind of denigration implicit in Xmas? It's just
"informal, short for Christmas". Hakan's meaning for X is the second
one listed, a symbol for an unknown or variable factor; 6th is the
symbol for Christ, Christian, from the form of the Greek letter khi,
X, first letter of Khristos, Christ. I read "X-tian" in this case as
a mix of #6 and #2. I didn't see any lack of respect in it.
I think I'd not be alone in that, when someone says they're a
Christian, I'd want to know what kind of Christian - an unknown,
variable factor indeed. If I didn't know that, "X-tian" might be
rather apt. "He's religious, he says he's a Christian."
Ken said: "... much less an X-tian like our rulers would have you
believe". What those particular rulers would definitely have you
believe is that that would be *their* version of a Christian. Many
Christians here, and many others too, don't accept that that is a
genuine Christian at all. I don't think you accept it either, do you?
Rightwing so-called "fundamentalist" allegedly Christian
dispensationalists who are utterly intolerant and seem to know
nothing of "God is love" or the Sermon on the Mount but rather crave
the destruction of all life and make it soon? Have these people even
read the Gospels? There's not much evidence of it. I've called them
an "evil cult" before this. Christians? I don't think so.
I was brought up as Hakan was but I'm neither a Christian nor an
atheist. I've had much experience of both, and though there've been
many exceptions on both sides, in general I've seen more intolerance
in Christians than in atheists. Whatever they might have believed, as
far as the way they behaved was concerned, some of the atheists were
better Christians than some of the Christians were.
Christians even joke about their intolerance, like this one: "A man
was walking across a bridge one day, and he saw a man standing on the
edge about to jump off. He said, I ran over to him and, said Stop;
don't do it'. "Why shouldn't I?" the man said. I said, "Well there is
so much to live for." He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well are you
religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too. Are you
Christian or Buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are
you Catholic or Protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "You
are?!? Wow," I said, "so am I! Are you Protestant Church of God, or
Protestant Church of God the Lord?" He said, "Protestant Church of
God." I said in my excitement, "My brother, me too! Are you original
Protestant Church of God, or Reformed Church of God?" He said,
"Reformed Church of God." I could hardly contain myself. "My brother,
me too! Are you Reformed Protestant Church of God of 1879, or are you
Reformed Protestant Church of God Reformed 1915?" He said, "Reformed
Protestant Church of God Reformation of 1915." I shouted, "Die
heretic," and pushed him off the bridge."
You can find that story in several different church sermons on the
web, with quite a wide variety of lessons drawn from it, according to
the type of church.
I don't think the "sacred cow" case is a good comparison, or any
comparison. That was a case of a disparaging colonial-era usage
surviving in common parlance well past its use-by date, everybody
accepted Pan's objection as valid, some valuable lessons came from it
and we found a resolution ("false sacred cow"). I don't see that it
has anythng in common with this.
Regards
Keith
Why are you so upset by not being especially mentioned, was it the
lack of attention to your specific case?
I am sorry to disappoint you but I do not suffer from adolescent
temper tantrumus (my word).
Luc - pinning for attention.ha!
Ha
Re: [Biofuel] Rice Husks, email wWas Perlite, was Soap & aerated concrete
Keith: I checked the California Rice Commission website http://www.calrice.org/a5_ricestraw.htm and only found an arctile on "rice straw". Looks like "rice straw" also in need of alternative uses cause they used to "burn it" but affected air quality. It's easy to find uses for straw, easy to compost it too. Rice husks are a bit more intractable. I will do more search on rice husks. thanks Phillip Wolfe We touched on this before, a bit of a mystery what happens to Califonian rice husks. They're mostly silica so it's not very active stuff, difficult to compost or to recycle back to the soil, for instance. Please let us know what you find. I've seen mountains of rice husks outside rice centrals in 3rd World countries. Here in Japan there's currently a flavour-of-the-month myth that rice husks suppress weed growth so people are using them as a mulch. Well, that won't hurt, but their theory's without any basis. Possibly it's filtered through from what Biodynamic farmers do with silica, but that's altogether different, and not without basis. I'm more than somewhat amused (in a dark sort of way) at rice farmers constantly complaining about weed problems. Best wishes Keith Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Keith, Thanks for the info on rice husks as one of > the > world's most under-utilized waste materials. I > imagine > the Rice Cooperative in California knows a lot about > rice husks. I plan to read more about rice husks. > All new to methanks again. > > Phillip Wolfe > --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Hello Phillip, Peter > > > > Perlite is made from a siliceous volcanic rock for > > > horticultural use > > and also for insulation. "When heated to a > suitable > > point in its > > softening range, it expands from four to twenty > > times its original > > volume. This expansion is due to the presence of > two > > to six percent > > combined water in the crude perlite rock. When > > quickly heated to > > above 1600°F (871°C), the crude rock pops in a > > manner similar to > > popcorn as the combined water vaporizes and > creates > > countless tiny > > bubbles which account for the amazing light weight > > and other > > exceptional physical properties of expanded > > perlite." > > > > So it's very similar to rice husk ash, which, when > > properly prepared, > > consists mainly of myriad tiny glass bubbles. > > > > A major difference is that Perlite is a product, > > rice husk is one of > > the world's most underutilised waste materials. > > > > Perlite is very fragile and makes an unpleasant > > dust. Wear a > > breathing mask. Reject perlite of a suitable > grade > > can often be > > obtained free of charge (or at low cost) from the > > manufacturers. > > > > Best wishes > > > > Keith > > > > > > >Perlites and found with the Borates and all part > of > > >the volcanic geological evolution. We have a lot > of > > >Perlites in our Sierra Nevadas in California. > Same > > >with borates (borax). Borates, perlites, > > colemanites, > > >- all that stuff can be found anywhere you have > an > > >escarpment of raised mountains due to ancient > > volcanic > > >magma "scarns" and earthquake activity especially > > next > > >to an arid desert bowl. > > > > > >What is Perlite? > > >http://www.perlite.info/hbk/0034409.htm > > >Perlite is not a trade name but a generic term > for > > >naturally occurring siliceous volcanic rock. The > > >distinguishing feature which sets perlite apart > > from > > >other volcanic glasses is that when heated to a > > >suitable point in its softening range, it expands > > from > > >four to twenty times its original volume. > > > > > >This expansion process is due to the presence of > > two > > >to six percent combined water in the crude > perlite > > >rock. When quickly heated to above 1600 F (870 C) > > the > > >crude rock pops in a manner similar to popcorn as > > the > > >combined water vaporizes and creates countless > tiny > > >bubbles in the softened glassy particles. It is > > these > > >tiny glass-sealed bubbles which account for the > > >amazing lightweight and other exceptional > physical > > >properties of expanded perlite. > > > > > >The expansion process also creates one of > perlite's > > >most distinguishing characteristics: its white > > color. > > >While the crude perlite rock may range from > > >transparent to light gray to glossy black, the > > color > > >of expanded perlite ranges from snowy white to > > grayish > > >white. > > > > > >Expanded perlite can be manufactured to weigh > from > > 2 > > >lbs/ft3 (32 kg/m3) to 15 lb/ft3 (240 kg/m3) > making > > it > > >adaptable for numerous uses, including > filtration, > > >horticultural applications, insulation, inert > > carriers > > >and a multitude of filler applications. > > > > > > > > >--- Guag Meister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi All ; > > > > > > > > Could I ask a stupid question? What is > Perlite? > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Peter G.
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Test batch no. 2
Thank You for the reply Todd. Hmmm i might not have been very clear about what happened. Data about titration and some pictures of it all is here: http://user.tninet.se/~qrg733j/Krympta/Snoddastest_1.html The fluff appeared when i shaked the "wash test" (violent shake of BD with water) bottle again the day after the initial "wash test" (the first test described in the pictures) was performed. So the fluff did not appear until the test bottle with the same water and the same BD had been shaken again after about 24 hours of separation after the real test. I will go to my hot dog shop and get some fresh sample of their oil and make the suggested tests and experiments. Everything that makes things clear in front of my eyes makes it easier to understand any coming problems wich will come some day i imagine. The oil is a mix of rape and palm oil, i have tried to get some answers about it from the supplier but there is quite a bit of secrets around it All i know about the oil mix is that it is "partly hardened" and contains citric acid to prevent oxidation. The fat is roughly 18% "saturated", 76% "single unsaturated" and 6% "double unsaturated". They change oil in the fryer a little bit more often than once a week, i do not know if that makes it a very used oil Thanks again Lars A Lars Andersson Vstanskogsgatan 7 590 71 Ljungsbro 013-66574/070-5334054 - Original Message - From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:28 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Test batch no. 2 > Lars, > > "Fluff" at the interphase layer of water and biodiesel upon the first wash > stage isn't exactly what you want to see. If the reaction has gone to > completion, you have let the fuel/glyc-cocktail set overnight or perhaps 24 > hours and you didn't transfer any of the glyc cocktail into your wash, the > interphase layer should be a very clean separation, with but a paper-thin > layer of white between water and fuel. > > Just exactly what did the oil titrate at before you started? Three > possibilities are that either the reaction failed to complete, or it's a > very degraded oil that generated a grand amount of soap and you didn't let > the glyc cocktail settle out for a long enough period of time, or a > combination of both. > > It's also possible that the oil is borderline, so degraded and high in FFAs > (eventually soap) that you're always going to have problems with it. > > The suggestion here is to slow down and figure this one out before you move > on to 100 liters. > > If your able, secure one or two liters of virgin veg oil. Run side-by-side > samples of that and a half-dozen blends of the SVO and the feedstock you're > having trouble with. (perhaps 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%, 75% and 90%) Two hundred > milliliters of oil at a time will be sufficient, all of them preferably in > identical jars. "Pint" canning jars work lovely. Use a water bath to keep > the temp elevated while the contents are reacting. Shake each jar violently > for perhaps 10 seconds, every five minutes, for 20 minutes. > > When working with such small volumes it helps to use a stock methoxide > solution and dilute it as necessary for each sample using pure methanol. > This is a much more accurate and quicker method than weighing out > micro-amounts of catalyst for each and every sample. See > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#stockmeth > > Take note of everything you do. As you progress towards the samples with the > high percentage of crappy oil (?) some of the characteristics you've already > experienced should start popping up, providing that the problem rests with > the oil and not previous operator error. > > When you go to washing some of each sample, pour off 50 ml of each into > separate jars, making sure not to get any glyc cocktail in with the fuel. > Add 50 ml of warm/tepid water. Close the lid tightly and either swirl > quickly for ten seconds or just shake violently three or four times. Set the > jars down, let settle and observe. > > What you see shuld start providing answers to some of your questions. > > There is one other set of tests that could help you gather a better > understanding of what gives. Take a liter of fairly clean oil. Titrate it. > Put 200 ml of the oil in each of five identical jars. In the center sample > use the appropriate amount of methoxide that your titration dictates. In the > two samples to the left use an amount of catalyst equivalent to 1/2 gram per > liter of oil and 1 gram per liter of oil less than what the titration > indicates. On the two samples to the right, go in the opposite direction > with 1/2 and 1.0 grams more, respectively, than the titration indicates. > Close the lids tightly and agitate in the same manner as the test mentioned > above. Wash 50 ml samples, also in the same manner as in the test above. > > Observe. > > This side-by-side "bracket tit
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerin soap making
can some glycerin be added to new oil to make a soap? Farmer Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] New member introduction
I've been lurking and reading the messages for several months. It was my
original intention to set up
the biodiesel refining equipment in our garage, but the wife says "No way."
So I will do the next best thing
and buy biodiesel from a local producer. He says he can deliver to my house
for no charge if I have a
200 gallon tank. I'd like to put it in the garage in a corner near the
garage door on the floor with a hank
crank to pump the biodiesel out via a hose into our two VW TDI Golfs ('99 &
'03). The tank can't be more than 31" in diameter.
I can't find a source on the web but I am hoping that one of you knows a
source for the tank and a compatible
crank. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance, Dean
- Original Message -
From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: New member introduction
Don't hold back Doug, tell 'em what you really think, Ha!
Those of us who have a weathered Benz wouldn't think of going any other
way. It must be one of those "things".
Luc
- Original Message -
From: "Doug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 1:17 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Re: New member introduction
On Monday, February 14, 2005, at 11:38 AM, jh wrote:
Your other choice is an old school MB but since some of them barely
break 30 mpg and are glacially slow, I might just get a newer Ford Focus
gasser that gets 35 mpg.
30 mpg for a very heavy, very safe/solid 4-dr sedan running on any form
of Bio-diesel is one hell of a lot preferable to ANY 'gasser' @ 35 mpg. I
was always impressed with the 30+ miles/gallon my 1980 300D gave me.
In addition this 59 yr old life-long car-freak will state without
hesitation, that the 300D was THE best car I've ever driven. The best
handling, the safest, the most road-worthy by far. I'm not a reluctant or
slow driver. I was warned I'd not be satisfied with the Mercedes because
it would be slow. I never was!! I pushed the (#*%&%*&^$ out of that car
and was always happy with the performance. It's a heavy, well-made diesel
torgue-monster - it can take it. In addition, mine wasn't even the
turbo-diesel!
I'm now looking for another - the best I can find to replace my newer gas
Mercedes.
These babies are not only a smart buy for bio-fuel folk, but they are
nothing less than the best cars on the road! (o.k. I have a bias).
Also, they imported some MB diesels in the mid-late nineties. Again...
great cars!
Doug Smith
P.S. By the way, the Mitsubishi Coup that slammed into me from behind and
drove me totally through a major intersection... was destroyed all the
way up to the windshield. My 300D was totally unscathed! The only sign of
being hit was a few pieces of glass embedded in the hard rubber on the
back bumper! Can a Focus take that?
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Re: [Biofuel] question's
hello luc, you scared me at first,thanks for the info. now i just need to find somewhere to buy from, thanks dina -- Original message -- > G'day Dina; > > You can't. The car is crap, but I will gladly take it off your hands :-) > Just is jest. Good car, by the way. > > - Original Message - > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:45 PM > Subject: [Biofuel] question's > > > >I was wondering if someone could help me find out how I can convert my 1980 > >Mercedes 300sd Turbo Diesel to biodiesel ? > > You need to do nothing to it, it will love the B100 as is, however there are > things you need to be aware of concerning the filters ect. > > > I have been doing some research but have not been able to find out what I > > need to do to the vehicle itself. > > Nothing. The only "converting" that could be done is if you wanted to run > SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil) or WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil) directly in it, > but biodiesel is fully compatible to any percentage with your car. You > *might* experience some rubber hose failure, although this is not a > guarentee. > > >I am very new to all of this but am very interested in making it work it > >sounds so sensible I can't believe more people aren't aware of this > >alternative. > > We're working on it :-) > > >I live in S.F.- Bay Area so if anyone has information for this area I > >would appreciate it. > > The beginning: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html > > Luc > > >Thankyou. Dina > > ___ > > Biofuel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: US Diesel Options
hi, would this also pertain to a 300sd turbo diesel 1980 and by the way my mechanic did the tweak thing and my old girl has some getty -up-go! dina -- Original message -- > G'day Chris; > > Word to the wise; when you start burning B100 in your benz be aware that > there is a screen sediment filter *inside* the tank that will gum up with > the loosening crud from the dino. It looks like this: > http://oem.overnightautoparts.com/parts/overnightautoparts/viewImage.jsp?image=i > > mg.overnightautoparts.com/live/E101087062MEY.JPG > IMO it would be a good idea to strip the screening from the one you have and > install an exterior in-line fliter at the tank's outlet. That way when it > does gum up (and it will) you only have to spen a couple minutes on yor back > to change it instead of having the car towed and the tank emptied out. This > may occur a couple times. It cost me a bundle to learn this one. > As for slowness in a Benz turbo of the 300 class, you have a thingy called > the "Alda" that can be tweaked. How to tweak: > http://users.vnet.net/w123d/w123d/adla.htm > Benz's of that age bracket are particularly fond of biodiesel, mine sure is > and I have a 1983 240D 4 speed manual (no Alda to tweak unfortunately) > which *might* win a race with a little old lady in a wheel chair, but we > enjoy it, class act. If the wagon is available for $3,000.00 and is in good > shape jump on it. You could do a lot worse. > Luc > > - Original Message - > From: "Chris" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:34 PM > Subject: [Biofuel] Re: US Diesel Options > > > > Add to the '81-'85 Mercedes list: the wagon, the 300TD. > > > > '85 was the last year for the 5 cyl all cast iron motor. I searching for > > one to buy for my personal biodiesel project, I ran across a very nice > > well-maintained one in Allentown, PA. It is still for sale $3000. Email > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info. > > > > I just bought one locally and will keep the list updated as I move from > > test batches to the real thing. > > > > And no, they aren't slow. If it is slow it is not working properly. As > > much pick-up as a gas Volvo 240. OK, a little slow. > > > > Chris Kueny > > ___ > > Biofuel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Cutting biodiesel
oils available for process in my area are solid oils which after processing freeze at even moderate temperatures. I have been performing tests in my vehicle and find it acceptable to run 50% mix with pump diesel. The only time I tried a lower pump diesel percentage unfortunately coincided with an overnight frost and the following morning the car died after about 1/2 mile and took about 3 days to thaw! What would be a better option than pump derv to cut the biodiesel with to give it a wider temperature envelope? I have recently got a supply of pourable hydrogenated WVO but not in quantites that would allow me to run 100% biodiesel. I am currently processing the first 10 gallon batch and the quality of the oil seems poor requiring a LOT of lye to get the reaction moving. I ususally work on the 2 stage base/base method with 6.5g of lye per litre WVO and 25% methanol by volume to oil. This oil turned to an emulsion similar to that depicted on the 'foolproof' method page (http://journeytoforever.org/media/aleks/FP6.jpg) I was forced to add more methanol with a very high level of lye in it to get things 'brewing' Not sure if the problem is the quality of the oil or if the additives used to make it pourable are hindering things. If I can winterise the solid oils better, and get up to about 75% biodiesel I will be happier. Any suggestions? Chris Bennett.. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
i suppose you have a problem with christmas being spelled with an X as well. you know XMAS! i never thought it was intended as any form of denegration. seems we're awfully sensitive here...rbury - Original Message - From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution > G'day Ken; > Nice of you to denigrate CHRISTians like that . We are not "X" anything > thank you very much. Either learn some respect or please keep your crap to > yourself. You don't have to agree, but you don't get to denigrate either. > Someone had a whack at "sacred cows" a while back, you should have learned > from that. > Luc > - Original Message - > From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution > > > > on 2/14/05 6:38 PM, knoton at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> Our Godless Constitution > >> by BROOKE ALLEN > >> [from the February 21, 2005 issue] > > > > > >> > >> http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050221&s=allen > >> > > > > > > > > A breath of fresh air -- thanks! Having been an > > unabashed atheist for 90% of my long life, it's > > great to know that my hero Tom Jefferson wasn't > > even a real Deist (as I've always been taught), > > much less an X-tian like our rulers would have you > > believe. 'Course Tom has almost been drummed out > > of the Founding Father's Klub already, and our > > Revolution has been renamed the War of Independ- > > ence for decades now.. > > > > -K > > > > ___ > > Biofuel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] BioD test batch
Thank you (snip) I will cross reference your methoxide mix with my numbers as I have undertaken the same experiments comparing different processes (batch, two stage, acid base). However, from my experiences, my biod is cloudy after 1 hour of stiring but will settle out rather well over night (12+ hours). Furthermore, after seperation I let it settle another day (I get some more glyc on the bottom of the glass flask). By this time its quite clear. My two batches have been settling to several days with no appreciable change in clarity. Some more details. The Methanol I used is technical grade and is labeled at 99.5%. The KOH is lab grade is supposed to be 99% or better. The KOH has been open to the air only a very little bit and seems to be still flaky and dry with no clumps. I going to try washing it with the dr pepper method to see what happens. Would you mind sharing your test batch process with me/us? Are you using NaOH or KOH? New oil? What numbers? Many thanks, Dana ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution ~ Expanded
Gary DeMar is one of the founding crackpots of "Christian Reconstructionism" or "Christian Dominionism." "AmericanVision.org" is one of the main sites for that movement. Here are some excerpts from some of that movement's articles, speeches, and books quoted in a report: Ê By Katherine Yurica September 14, 2004 Paul Weyrich's Secret Manual on How to Win Politically One document not mentioned in The Despoiling of America is the closeted manual that reveals how the right wing in American politics can get and keep power. It was created under the tutelage of Paul Weyrich, the man who founded the Free Congress Foundation. Conservative leaders consider Weyrich to be the "most powerful man in American politics today." There is no question of his immense influence in conservative circles. He is also considered the founder of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank made possible with funding from Joseph Coors and Richard Mellon-Scaife. Weyrich served as the Founding President from 1973-1974. To get a sense of how revolutionary the political fight for power in the U.S. is, we need to look at a few quotes from what has been dubbed, "Paul Weyrich's Teaching Manual," the Free Congress Foundation's strategic plan on how to gain control of the government of the U.S. Written by Eric Heubeck, and titled, "The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement," the document is no longer available at the Free Congress Foundation's website for obvious reasons. But excerpts are published at the Yurica Report. The excerpts explain why the Dominionists are winning; the tactics they endorse are sheer Machiavellian: Ê I have paraphrased the four immoral principles of the Dominionist movement as the following: Ê 1)Ê Falsehoods are not only acceptable, they are a necessity. The corollary is: The masses will accept any lie if it is spoken with vigor, energy and dedication. 2)Ê It is necessary to be cast under the cloak of "goodness" whereas all opponents and their ideas must be cast as "evil." 3)Ê Complete destruction of every opponent must be accomplished through unrelenting personal attacks. 4)Ê The creation of the appearance of overwhelming power and brutality is necessary in order to destroy the will of opponents to launch opposition of any kind. Ê According to Jeffry Sharlet, Hitler's Mein Kampf and William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich are studied as textbooks in a particular leadership training group he wrote about in Harper's magazine. Ê Eric Heubeck, the author of Mr. Weyrich's manual, does not mince words. Here is a sample of the most immoral political program ever adopted by a political movement in this country. Notice that the manual begins with the adoption of the fundamental fact of Machiavellianism: Ê "This essay is based on the belief that the truth of an idea is not the primary reason for its acceptance. Far more important is the energy and dedication of the idea's promoters÷in other words, the individuals composing a social or political movement· Ê "We must, as Mr. Weyrich has suggested, develop a network of parallel cultural institutions existing side-by-side with the dominant leftist cultural institutions. The building and promotion of these institutions will require the development of a movement that will not merely reform the existing post-war conservative movement, but will in fact be forced to supersede it÷if it is to succeed at all÷because it will pursue a very different strategy and be premised on a very different view of its role in society·. Ê "There will be three main stages in the unfolding of this movement. The first stage will be devoted to the development of a highly motivated elite able to coordinate future activities. The second stage will be devoted to the development of institutions designed to make an impact on the wider elite and a relatively small minority of the masses. The third stage will involve changing the overall character of American popular culture·. Ê "Our movement will be entirely destructive, and entirely constructive. We will not try to reform the existing institutions. We only intend to weaken them, and eventually destroy them. We will endeavor to knock our opponents off-balance and unsettle them at every opportunity. All of our constructive energies will be dedicated to the creation of our own institutions·. Ê "We will maintain a constant barrage of criticism against the Left. We will attack the very legitimacy of the Left. We will not give them a moment's rest. We will endeavor to prove that the Left does not deserve to hold sway over the heart and mind of a single American.Ê We will offer constant reminders that there is an alternative, there is a better way. When people have had enough of the sickness and decay of today's American culture, they will be embraced by and welcomed into the New Traditionalist movement. The rejection of the existing society by the people will thus be accomplished
Re: [Biofuel] Re: US Diesel Options
Hi Chris, Legal Eagle and Luc are one and the same, two peas in a pod, different sides of the same coin. So you weren't as far off as you thought you were, now were ya! AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:44 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: US Diesel Options > > > > From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sorry Legal Eagle, I directed my question to Luc instead of you. I am just > getting to know you all. This is an amazing community, it is not as > 'virtual' as I expected. > > Chris Kueny > > > ___ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
It is worse than that
See
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/7laws.html
The U.S. Congress officially recognized the Noahide
Laws in legislation which was passed by both houses.
Congress and the President of the United States,
George Bush, indicated in Public Law 102-14, 102nd
Congress, that the United States of America was
founded upon the Seven Universal Laws of Noah, and
that these Laws have been the bedrock of society from
the dawn of civilization. They also acknowledged that
the Seven Laws of Noah are the foundation upon which
civilization stands and that recent weakening of these
principles threaten the fabric of civilized society,
and that justified preoccupation in educating the
Citizens of the United States of America and future
generations is needed. For this purpose, this Public
Law designated March 26, 1991 as Education Day, U.S.A.
Noahide or Noachide law is actually Jewish although
some "Christians" apparently want to practice Judaism.
I'm afraid it will only get worse at least for a time.
Kirk
--- knoton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Bingo! That's my read on it. To be more specific,
> they want "THEIR
> god's law" (that god of Judaism and Christianity) to
> be the law of the
> land.
>
> You can google the same same criteria {dominionism
> and "christian
> reconstructionism"} as mentioned earlier, but
> specify "death penalty"
> and see what they intend to do with that ~both by
> expanding the list of
> crimes eligible, and the METHODs of execution to be
> employed. The
> Constitution Restoration Act will PROHIBIT judicial
> review of these
> extremist goals. Not even the U.S. Supreme Court
> will have
> jurisdiction.
>
> Try googling by specifying "Pat Robertson" to the
> before mentioned
> search criteria and see what you learn.
> "Presbyterian" yields some
> interesting background, too. Poke around enough and
> you'll find several
> people and orgs that you recognize.
>
> Where the Constitution Restoration Act may be
> specific to the United
> States, you'll soon learn that they do not intend to
> stop with just the
> United States.
>
> Demian
> ==
>
> I found the text of this act and some things about
> it. Am I right in
> thinking that they are trying to make "god's law"
> part of our
> constitutional law?
> -dave
>
> Knoton,
> >Try googling the following:
> >
> >"Constitution Restoration Act"
> >
> >which was introduced in both houses of the U.S.
> Congress >one year ago
> >this month.
>
> > [1]kcom.gif
>
>
>
> References
>
>1. http://www.knoton.com/
> > ___
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
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[Biofuel] Re: US Diesel Options
From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry Legal Eagle, I directed my question to Luc instead of you. I am just getting to know you all. This is an amazing community, it is not as 'virtual' as I expected. Chris Kueny ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
A breath of fresh air -- thanks! Having been an unabashed atheist for 90% of my long life, it's great to know that my hero Tom Jefferson wasn't even a real Deist (as I've always been taught), much less an X-tian like our rulers would have you believe. 'Course Tom has almost been drummed out of the Founding Father's Klub already, and our Revolution has been renamed the War of Independ- ence for decades now.. While I agree in substance with much of the article Brooke Allen composed, here is a rebuttal that my eldest sister (the one who is happy to stay in Oakland, where she lives) sent for my perusal: http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-09-05.asp Did George Bush Lie About America Being Founded on Christian Principles? By Gary DeMar “The lesson the President has learned best—and certainly the one that has been the most useful to him—is the axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administration’s current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones. God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent.” Thus begins an article by Brooke Allen that was posted on the website of “The Nation” on February 3, 2005.1 It’s obvious that Allen has not done a thorough study of American history as it relates to its founding documents. There is much more to America’s founding than the Constitution. America was not born in 1877 or even in 1776. The Constitution did not create America, America created the Constitution. More specifically, the states created the national government. The states (colonial governments) were a reality long before the Constitution was conceived, and there is no question about their being founded on Christian principles. Allen’s article is filled with so many half truths that it would take a book to deal with them adequately. For those of you who are new to the work of American Vision, there are numerous books on the subject that easily refute Allen’s assertions. * America’s Christian History: The Untold Story by Gary DeMar (1995). * America’s Christian Heritage by Gary DeMar (2003). * The United States: A Christian Nation by Supreme Court Justice David J. Brewer (1905). * The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States Developed in the Official and Historical Annals of the Republic by B. F. Morris (1864). * Christianity and the American Commonwealth by Charles B. Galloway (1898).2 Here is Allen’s first assertion: “Our Constitution makes no mention whatever of God.” “No mention whatever” is pretty absolute. Given this bold claim, then how does she explain that the Constitution ends with “DONE in the year of our Lord”? “Our Lord” is a reference to Jesus Christ. This phrase appears just above the signature of George Washington, the same George Washington who took the presidential oath of office with his hand on an open Bible, the same George Washington who was called upon by Congress, after the drafting of the First Amendment, to proclaim a national day of prayer and thanksgiving. The resolution read as follows: That a joint committee of both Houses be directed to wait upon the President of the United States to request that he would recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a Constitution for their safety and happiness. It seems rather odd that the constitutional framers would thank God for allowing them to draft a Constitution that excluded Him from the Constitution and the civil affairs of government. Allen is correct that there were a number of Enlightenment principles floating around the colonies in the late eighteenth century as well as anti-clericalism. And there is no doubt that some of these principles made their way into the Constitution, although it’s hard to tell where when compared to the obvious Enlightenment principles inherent in the French Declaration of the Rights of Man (1789). But we should be reminded of Allen’s absolutist claim of a complete dissolution of religion from political considerations in the Constitution. She has set the evaluative standard. If she is correct, then why didn’t the framers presage the French revolutionaries by starting the national calendar with a new Year One? Why did the Constitutional framers set aside Sunday—the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue—as a day of rest for the President (Art. 1, sec. 7) if it was their desire to secularize the nation as Allen suggests? The French revolutionaries reconstructed the seven-day biblical week and turned it into a ten-day metric week in hopes of ridding the nation of
[Biofuel] Re:US Diesel Options
one locally in South Carolina. I posted it because I thought someone on the list might find it attractive. Word to the wise; when you start burning B100 in your benz be aware that there is a screen sediment filter *inside* the tank that will gum up with the loosening crud from the dino. It looks like this: http://oem.overnightautoparts.com/parts/overnightautoparts/viewImage.jsp?image=img.overnightautoparts.com/live/E101087062MEY.JPG IMO it would be a good idea to strip the screening from the one you have and install an exterior in-line fliter at the tank's outlet. Is it as simple as draining the tank and removing the fitting from the tank? Chris Kueny ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
on 2/15/05 5:24 PM, knoton at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You can google the same same criteria {dominionism and "christian
> reconstructionism"} as mentioned earlier, but specify "death penalty"
> and see what they intend to do with that ~both by expanding the list of
> crimes eligible, and the METHODs of execution to be employed.
Yup, it's clear that they're CRAZY (i.e., CERTIFIABLE). It's enuf to
make any good Christian disavow the term, 'till the insanity blows
over... Meanwhile, we (poor Amerikan schmucks) have to figger out
how to survive this assault -- more later. -K
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[Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Dave,
Bingo! That's my read on it. To be more specific, they want "THEIR
god's law" (that god of Judaism and Christianity) to be the law of the
land.
You can google the same same criteria {dominionism and "christian
reconstructionism"} as mentioned earlier, but specify "death penalty"
and see what they intend to do with that ~both by expanding the list of
crimes eligible, and the METHODs of execution to be employed. The
Constitution Restoration Act will PROHIBIT judicial review of these
extremist goals. Not even the U.S. Supreme Court will have
jurisdiction.
Try googling by specifying "Pat Robertson" to the before mentioned
search criteria and see what you learn. "Presbyterian" yields some
interesting background, too. Poke around enough and you'll find several
people and orgs that you recognize.
Where the Constitution Restoration Act may be specific to the United
States, you'll soon learn that they do not intend to stop with just the
United States.
Demian
==
I found the text of this act and some things about it. Am I right in
thinking that they are trying to make "god's law" part of our
constitutional law?
-dave
Knoton,
>Try googling the following:
>
>"Constitution Restoration Act"
>
>which was introduced in both houses of the U.S. Congress >one year ago
>this month.
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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[1]kcom.gif
References
1. http://www.knoton.com/
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[Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
Using "X" as shorthand for "cross" and by extension "Christ" is not universally offensive among Christians. I see it used for both X-tians and X-mas by other practicing Christians. That this abbreviation offends your particular Christian cult is your personal problem by your personal choice. I think it's a definitive example of one particular cult's extremism, or perhaps one cult member's extremism. That you chose not to use that particular abbreviation is your personal business. That you wish to impose a ban on it's use by other folks who are not members of your particular little cult is inappropriate IMHO. Demian == Luc, I find your response rather amusing but all too much a double standard.. First of all, if the archives are any indicator, you spend a great deal of time bashing your favorite sects du jour. Second of all, Ken Provost didn't bash christians. He did make note of the type of "christians" who choose to misappropriate the power of public office in pursuit of enforcing their theological ideology upon others. >From this vantage point it is an apology owed by you for >jumping to sweeping conclusions. How you came to them one >can only hazard to guess, probably with a fair degree of >accuracy. You expect or demand respect but don't exactly >reciprocate. Should others presume that this too is a >tenant of your religion of choice? What? A person is allowed to have their opinion but they aren't allowed to express it? What is it about such a double standard that sounds oh so Bushwellian? You can hold your opinion, express it, but others are to be denigrated for their opinion and expected to remain silent? If such truly is the case, then someone should take a moment to point out your extreme form of hypocrisy. Why this should even have to be said is beyond me...almost. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Legal Eagle" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution > G'day Ken; > Nice of you to denigrate CHRISTians like that . We are not >"X" anything > thank you very much. Either learn some respect or please >keep your crap to > yourself. You don't have to agree, but you don't get to >denigrate either. > Someone had a whack at "sacred cows" a while back, you >should have learned > from that. > Luc > - Original Message - > From: "Ken Provost" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:34 PM > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution > > >> on 2/14/05 6:38 PM, knoton at knoton at webtv.net wrote: >> >>> Our Godless Constitution >>> by BROOKE ALLEN >>> [from the February 21, 2005 issue] >> >> >>> >>> http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050221&s=allen >>> >> >> >> >> A breath of fresh air -- thanks! Having been an >> unabashed atheist for 90% of my long life, it's >> great to know that my hero Tom Jefferson wasn't >> even a real Deist (as I've always been taught), >> much less an X-tian like our rulers would have you >> believe. 'Course Tom has almost been drummed out >> of the Founding Father's Klub already, and our >> Revolution has been renamed the War of Independ- >> ence for decades now.. >> >> -K >> Content-Description: signature Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" [1]kcom.gif References 1. http://www.knoton.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Objectivity
therefore I wish to express my sincere appologies to the list for this. Luc ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution
- Original Message - From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Our Godless Constitution Luc, Sorry but my earlier reply was sent by itself and without following comment. You are right, but I think that many Christians also should learn "respect or please keep their crap for them self". It is numerous times that I met representatives for the Christian religion, that in an abusive way promote their religion and demand respect for it, without them self having any respect for what others belive in. This I say, even because my denomination would officially and by birth be Christian protestant. I am sorry, but I fail to see in what way Ken did not show respect, he declared what be belive and did a general comment about religious variant in general. In mathematics X stand for unknown denomination And were we speaking of mathematics I would agree. and I think that in this case it was meant as such. You can believe that if you want to,however anyone who has been around confirmed atheists for any amount of time knows more than well that the "X" is a lot more than a generic symbol. It is meant the way it was used. Like "X"mas is. Why are you so upset by not being especially mentioned, was it the lack of attention to your specific case? I am sorry to disappoint you but I do not suffer from adolescent temper tantrumus (my word). Luc - pinning for attention.ha! Hakan X-tian or whatever. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
