[Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting Match 20th
Howdy Texas Cavers, This week we get to hear what was discovered at the cave near Mason, TX, which a landowner was awesome enough to invite us to checkout at the last grotto meeting. Then Pete Strickland will share his video of Deep Cave. I think we all will be glad to see Pete back at the grotto meetings! UT Grotto meeting - Wednesday from 7:45PM- 9:00PM University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall (156 West 24th Street, Austin TX 78712) http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.org Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com Cavingly, Andrea Croskrey UT Grotto Vice Chair Program Organizer
[DFWgrotto] Fwd: [Texascavers] Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7
Check the TSA web site for more details: http://www.cavetexas.org/events/TSASC/tsasc2013.php Come to the DFW grotto meeting next Wednesday, March 27 to learn more about the Convention. I will be looking for people to carpool with me, I plan to leave before 3 PM on Friday (it takes about 5 hours from the Metroplex if the traffic isn't bad). Be sure to bring money to buy caving gear, there will be lots of vendors there to sell good things to you. Last year at the Convention I ordered a nifty pair of caving pants from Ron Rutherford that have built-in kneepads and they are great! Diana From: caverarch cavera...@aol.commailto:cavera...@aol.com Subject: [Texascavers] Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7 Date: March 18, 2013 9:22:43 PM CDT To: bmorgan...@aol.commailto:bmorgan...@aol.com, texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com Here are the registration rates for the upcoming Spring Convention of the Texas Speleological Association at Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas: Individual Registration $16 per person Family Registration ≥ 3 persons $40 This registration includes camping for Friday and Saturday nights, attendance at the paper sessions during the day on Saturday, the TSA Business Meeting, the Big Meal on Saturday Night followed by the always fun TCMA Auction. Sunday morning highlights will be the TCMA Breakfast and Meeting, as well as an opportunity to tour Cave Without a Name. See the TSA Web Site for further details! Roger G. Moore Vice Chair UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. ___ DFWgrotto mailing list dfwgro...@dfwgrotto.org http://dfwgrotto.org/mailman/listinfo/dfwgrotto_dfwgrotto.org
[Texascavers] NSS President explains BOG proposal to end printed news
FYI: -- Forwarded Message From: Wm Shrewsbury presid...@caves.org Reply-To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a ³quick² synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion¹s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board¹s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are ³blue-line². For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the ³budget²; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of ¹11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to ³spread the cost² for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society
[Texascavers] Fwd: [FloridaCavers] NSS proposal to end the printed News
Here is a forward by a Florida caver of NSS President Wm Shrewsbury's summary of the budget situation and the proposal to cease a printed NSS News. Roger G. Moore This is a response by Wm Shrewsbury to the proposal to end the printed NSS News. Wendy -Original Message- From: Wm Shrewsbury presid...@caves.org To: NSSwest nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 8:53 pm Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a quick synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lions share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Boards budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are blue-line. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the budget; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of 11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to spread the cost for everyone. The most effective
texascavers Digest 20 Mar 2013 04:25:50 -0000 Issue 1725
texascavers Digest 20 Mar 2013 04:25:50 - Issue 1725 Topics (messages 21464 through 21476): At the Washington monument 21464 by: BMorgan994.aol.com Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7 21465 by: caverarch UT Grotto Meeting Match 20th 21466 by: Andrea Croskrey BOG proposal to end printed NSS News 21467 by: Frank Binney 21468 by: Phil Winkler 21469 by: Mimi Jasek 21470 by: Stefan Creaser 21472 by: Stephen Fleming 21476 by: Butch Fralia NSS President explains BOG proposal to end printed news 21471 by: Frank Binney Re: [FloridaCavers] NSS proposal to end the printed News 21473 by: caverarch Thank you. 21474 by: Espeleo Coahuila NSS News 21475 by: Mixon Bill Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Enough of fear. Let's stick to perversity and the growth rate of formations in unlikely places. A DC caver friend who some of you may know works for the Park Service and for many years had the unenviable task of chasing the gay guys out of the men's room at the Washington monument at the end of each day. It seems that they were greatly inspired by the great obelisk and were leaving rapidly growing deposits not unlike the _amberrat_ (http://cdri.org/publications/nature-notes/animals/mammals/packrats/) deposits sometimes found in the latrines of packrats, but of a different substance. Perhaps moon milk is a better metaphore? I must apologize in advance for the ditty this brings to mind, one I once wrote to a paramour: If your clit was a cave pearl I'd tie off my rope descend in the void and abandon all hope. A phallic formation is the first thing I see, but it's not made of calcite that stalagmite is me! Dripping from the tip, drip by drip, it forms a new rock that accretes on my knee! SW---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Here are the registration rates for the upcoming Spring Convention of the Texas Speleological Association at Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas: Individual Registration $16 per person Family Registration ≥ 3 persons $40 This registration includes camping for Friday and Saturday nights, attendance at the paper sessions during the day on Saturday, the TSA Business Meeting, the Big Meal on Saturday Night followed by the always fun TCMA Auction. Sunday morning highlights will be the TCMA Breakfast and Meeting, as well as an opportunity to tour Cave Without a Name. See the TSA Web Site for further details! Roger G. Moore Vice Chair ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Howdy Texas Cavers, This week we get to hear what was discovered at the cave near Mason, TX, which a landowner was awesome enough to invite us to checkout at the last grotto meeting. Then Pete Strickland will share his video of Deep Cave. I think we all will be glad to see Pete back at the grotto meetings! UT Grotto meeting - Wednesday from 7:45PM- 9:00PM University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall (156 West 24th Street, Austin TX 78712) http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.org Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com Cavingly, Andrea Croskrey UT Grotto Vice Chair Program Organizer ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday¹s NSS Board of Governor¹s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn¹t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS
[Texascavers] Thank you.
Hi friends.. I want to dedicate this month by all of you! You are my family and I'm a very lucky to have a wonderful texas caver family! I don't want to forget, that you are very important in my life. Thanks for help me and support me in all my Cancer treatments I had 3 years with out cancer, the next week I have the next appointment with the doctor and the next year possible finish the treatment. wiht your love I can do it!!! Thank you! Love you. Moni. -- LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora) Associazione Geografica La Venta- Italia (socia) Centro de Estudios Karsticos La Venta (socia) Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia) 045-844-1478311 cel. monicaponce1 by skype.
[Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday¹s NSS Board of Governor¹s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn¹t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like that would need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners another way, for I personally read as little as possible on line. Besides, our printed library would suffer! Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Wonder if this one'll drag on as long as the TSA newsletter discussion of the same? ;-) Cheers, Stefan From: Phil Winkler [mailto:pw...@dca.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:16 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
The sooner the News is available in high rez PDF, the better. It is _long_ overdue. Higher quality and, most importantly, searchable. It's way past time to bring the publication up to the equivalent of LED lights and nylon replacing manila ropes and carbide lights. There are substantial savings to be had in printing and postage costs. Continuing to spend signifcant funds on a paper version borders on negligence when a far more economical production method exists. Stephen Fleming On 03/19/2013 17:26, Mimi Jasek wrote: Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like that would need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners another way, for I personally read as little as possible on line. Besides, our printed library would suffer! Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturdayâs NSS Board of Governorâs meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadnât be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Just to throw my two cents in: I recently completed a long and arduous move during which I discovered that I have more belongings than any sane person should have (which should say something about my current state). The bulk of those belongings, I discovered, were several forests worth of trees in the form of a small-medium sized library; old newsletters; classic comix from the Gilbert Shelton, Jaxon era (KEEPERS); I think if I looked long enough I could probably find an old Charlie Loving poster or two (also keepers); magazines; family correspondence (can't get rid of that); newspaper articles (many of which I saved because they were my own work); various bureau publications which I either wrote and/or edited; and a lot more. But I tell you, after this move, I think it's a good thing we're recyclers here in Oregon because I have pretty much fallen out of love with the idea of paper dox. I belong to several organizations many of which now produce the bulk of their publications on line. If I want to save anything, I just download it to my hard drive and, after awhile, if I still find it valuable, onto a CD (or whatever comes after that). With a few exceptions, I now have no qualms about scanning much of what I have that is worth saving and putting it into an electronic file. Having worked on my family history for almost 20 years now, I'm glad my ancestors did not feel this way, but then, in the mid-1800s, they had no choice. I have a choice. I live in the Northwest home of a huge timber industry. For 32 years I have worked for a federal agency that manages forest land (among other uses) and we are under a constant barrage of lawsuits by both industry and conservationists to produce or not produce timber for a variety of uses. I've lived in this area for more than 20 years and seen both sides of the discussion. Recently I have come to the conclusion that if we have a practical, inexpensive, good quality choice, perhaps we ought to seriously consider taking it. I now step down from my soap box, Louise From: cave...@att.net To: fr...@frankbinney.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:25:41 -0500 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News BOG proposal to end printed NSS NewsI think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who’ve preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can’t recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt’ a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] NSS News
Gosh, Bill, I said almost the exact same thing in the letter I sent to the BOG an hour or so ago. Just did not post it. For us, though, we do not go to conventions outside of Texas for many reasons, and have never gotten life memberships. So the NSS News is our only tangible benefit! Jim thinks if they need to save on printing something, let them quit printing the members manual and make it on line only. Done properly, it could be an amazing, digital tool for finding and contacting cavers all over. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 11:06 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: The NSS News is _the_ tangible benefit that most NSS members get. If I stopped getting it on paper, I might just drop my membership, if I wasn't in the ~ 10 percent of members who attend the convention and get a registration discount equal to dues (and if I wasn't a life member). Has the overhead in the society's budget (mainly the office) decreased as the membership has dropped? The society has just appeased its edifice complex by buying a big new headquarters. While the cost of the property will no doubt be paid for by donations for the purpose, I suspect that overhead will increase when it ought to be decreasing. Work expands to fill the space available. Cutting the most visible member service is not the way to grow the membership. I think board members are, perhaps naturally, prone to overestimate how interested most members of the NSS are in intangible services such as promoting cave conservation and, to a minor extent, cave science. That so few regular members have opted to continue to get the journal on paper is not an indication of interest in a paper News. The journal is (too) specialized, and anyway, the membership renewal form on the web _still_, almost two years after the change to make the paper journal optional at extra cost, has no notice of that and no way to pay that cost. (Talk about spectacular administrative incompetence!) -- Mixon Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsburypresid...@caves.org Reply-To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a �quick� synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion�s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) � Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board�s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are �blue-line�. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the �budget�; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC � we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of �11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget � The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to �spread the cost� for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National
[Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting Match 20th
Howdy Texas Cavers, This week we get to hear what was discovered at the cave near Mason, TX, which a landowner was awesome enough to invite us to checkout at the last grotto meeting. Then Pete Strickland will share his video of Deep Cave. I think we all will be glad to see Pete back at the grotto meetings! UT Grotto meeting - Wednesday from 7:45PM- 9:00PM University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall (156 West 24th Street, Austin TX 78712) http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.org Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com Cavingly, Andrea Croskrey UT Grotto Vice Chair Program Organizer
[DFWgrotto] Fwd: [Texascavers] Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7
Check the TSA web site for more details: http://www.cavetexas.org/events/TSASC/tsasc2013.php Come to the DFW grotto meeting next Wednesday, March 27 to learn more about the Convention. I will be looking for people to carpool with me, I plan to leave before 3 PM on Friday (it takes about 5 hours from the Metroplex if the traffic isn't bad). Be sure to bring money to buy caving gear, there will be lots of vendors there to sell good things to you. Last year at the Convention I ordered a nifty pair of caving pants from Ron Rutherford that have built-in kneepads and they are great! Diana From: caverarch cavera...@aol.commailto:cavera...@aol.com Subject: [Texascavers] Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7 Date: March 18, 2013 9:22:43 PM CDT To: bmorgan...@aol.commailto:bmorgan...@aol.com, texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com Here are the registration rates for the upcoming Spring Convention of the Texas Speleological Association at Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas: Individual Registration $16 per person Family Registration ≥ 3 persons $40 This registration includes camping for Friday and Saturday nights, attendance at the paper sessions during the day on Saturday, the TSA Business Meeting, the Big Meal on Saturday Night followed by the always fun TCMA Auction. Sunday morning highlights will be the TCMA Breakfast and Meeting, as well as an opportunity to tour Cave Without a Name. See the TSA Web Site for further details! Roger G. Moore Vice Chair UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. ___ DFWgrotto mailing list dfwgro...@dfwgrotto.org http://dfwgrotto.org/mailman/listinfo/dfwgrotto_dfwgrotto.org
[Texascavers] NSS President explains BOG proposal to end printed news
FYI: -- Forwarded Message From: Wm Shrewsbury presid...@caves.org Reply-To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a ³quick² synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion¹s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board¹s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are ³blue-line². For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the ³budget²; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of ¹11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to ³spread the cost² for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society
[Texascavers] Fwd: [FloridaCavers] NSS proposal to end the printed News
Here is a forward by a Florida caver of NSS President Wm Shrewsbury's summary of the budget situation and the proposal to cease a printed NSS News. Roger G. Moore This is a response by Wm Shrewsbury to the proposal to end the printed NSS News. Wendy -Original Message- From: Wm Shrewsbury presid...@caves.org To: NSSwest nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 8:53 pm Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a quick synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lions share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Boards budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are blue-line. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the budget; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of 11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to spread the cost for everyone. The most effective
texascavers Digest 20 Mar 2013 04:25:50 -0000 Issue 1725
texascavers Digest 20 Mar 2013 04:25:50 - Issue 1725 Topics (messages 21464 through 21476): At the Washington monument 21464 by: BMorgan994.aol.com Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7 21465 by: caverarch UT Grotto Meeting Match 20th 21466 by: Andrea Croskrey BOG proposal to end printed NSS News 21467 by: Frank Binney 21468 by: Phil Winkler 21469 by: Mimi Jasek 21470 by: Stefan Creaser 21472 by: Stephen Fleming 21476 by: Butch Fralia NSS President explains BOG proposal to end printed news 21471 by: Frank Binney Re: [FloridaCavers] NSS proposal to end the printed News 21473 by: caverarch Thank you. 21474 by: Espeleo Coahuila NSS News 21475 by: Mixon Bill Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Enough of fear. Let's stick to perversity and the growth rate of formations in unlikely places. A DC caver friend who some of you may know works for the Park Service and for many years had the unenviable task of chasing the gay guys out of the men's room at the Washington monument at the end of each day. It seems that they were greatly inspired by the great obelisk and were leaving rapidly growing deposits not unlike the _amberrat_ (http://cdri.org/publications/nature-notes/animals/mammals/packrats/) deposits sometimes found in the latrines of packrats, but of a different substance. Perhaps moon milk is a better metaphore? I must apologize in advance for the ditty this brings to mind, one I once wrote to a paramour: If your clit was a cave pearl I'd tie off my rope descend in the void and abandon all hope. A phallic formation is the first thing I see, but it's not made of calcite that stalagmite is me! Dripping from the tip, drip by drip, it forms a new rock that accretes on my knee! SW---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Here are the registration rates for the upcoming Spring Convention of the Texas Speleological Association at Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas: Individual Registration $16 per person Family Registration ≥ 3 persons $40 This registration includes camping for Friday and Saturday nights, attendance at the paper sessions during the day on Saturday, the TSA Business Meeting, the Big Meal on Saturday Night followed by the always fun TCMA Auction. Sunday morning highlights will be the TCMA Breakfast and Meeting, as well as an opportunity to tour Cave Without a Name. See the TSA Web Site for further details! Roger G. Moore Vice Chair ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Howdy Texas Cavers, This week we get to hear what was discovered at the cave near Mason, TX, which a landowner was awesome enough to invite us to checkout at the last grotto meeting. Then Pete Strickland will share his video of Deep Cave. I think we all will be glad to see Pete back at the grotto meetings! UT Grotto meeting - Wednesday from 7:45PM- 9:00PM University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall (156 West 24th Street, Austin TX 78712) http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.org Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com Cavingly, Andrea Croskrey UT Grotto Vice Chair Program Organizer ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday¹s NSS Board of Governor¹s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn¹t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS
[Texascavers] Thank you.
Hi friends.. I want to dedicate this month by all of you! You are my family and I'm a very lucky to have a wonderful texas caver family! I don't want to forget, that you are very important in my life. Thanks for help me and support me in all my Cancer treatments I had 3 years with out cancer, the next week I have the next appointment with the doctor and the next year possible finish the treatment. wiht your love I can do it!!! Thank you! Love you. Moni. -- LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora) Associazione Geografica La Venta- Italia (socia) Centro de Estudios Karsticos La Venta (socia) Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia) 045-844-1478311 cel. monicaponce1 by skype.
[Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday¹s NSS Board of Governor¹s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn¹t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like that would need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners another way, for I personally read as little as possible on line. Besides, our printed library would suffer! Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Wonder if this one'll drag on as long as the TSA newsletter discussion of the same? ;-) Cheers, Stefan From: Phil Winkler [mailto:pw...@dca.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:16 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
The sooner the News is available in high rez PDF, the better. It is _long_ overdue. Higher quality and, most importantly, searchable. It's way past time to bring the publication up to the equivalent of LED lights and nylon replacing manila ropes and carbide lights. There are substantial savings to be had in printing and postage costs. Continuing to spend signifcant funds on a paper version borders on negligence when a far more economical production method exists. Stephen Fleming On 03/19/2013 17:26, Mimi Jasek wrote: Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like that would need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners another way, for I personally read as little as possible on line. Besides, our printed library would suffer! Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturdayâs NSS Board of Governorâs meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadnât be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Just to throw my two cents in: I recently completed a long and arduous move during which I discovered that I have more belongings than any sane person should have (which should say something about my current state). The bulk of those belongings, I discovered, were several forests worth of trees in the form of a small-medium sized library; old newsletters; classic comix from the Gilbert Shelton, Jaxon era (KEEPERS); I think if I looked long enough I could probably find an old Charlie Loving poster or two (also keepers); magazines; family correspondence (can't get rid of that); newspaper articles (many of which I saved because they were my own work); various bureau publications which I either wrote and/or edited; and a lot more. But I tell you, after this move, I think it's a good thing we're recyclers here in Oregon because I have pretty much fallen out of love with the idea of paper dox. I belong to several organizations many of which now produce the bulk of their publications on line. If I want to save anything, I just download it to my hard drive and, after awhile, if I still find it valuable, onto a CD (or whatever comes after that). With a few exceptions, I now have no qualms about scanning much of what I have that is worth saving and putting it into an electronic file. Having worked on my family history for almost 20 years now, I'm glad my ancestors did not feel this way, but then, in the mid-1800s, they had no choice. I have a choice. I live in the Northwest home of a huge timber industry. For 32 years I have worked for a federal agency that manages forest land (among other uses) and we are under a constant barrage of lawsuits by both industry and conservationists to produce or not produce timber for a variety of uses. I've lived in this area for more than 20 years and seen both sides of the discussion. Recently I have come to the conclusion that if we have a practical, inexpensive, good quality choice, perhaps we ought to seriously consider taking it. I now step down from my soap box, Louise From: cave...@att.net To: fr...@frankbinney.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:25:41 -0500 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News BOG proposal to end printed NSS NewsI think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who’ve preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can’t recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt’ a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
[Texascavers] NSS News
The NSS News is _the_ tangible benefit that most NSS members get. If I stopped getting it on paper, I might just drop my membership, if I wasn't in the ~ 10 percent of members who attend the convention and get a registration discount equal to dues (and if I wasn't a life member). Has the overhead in the society's budget (mainly the office) decreased as the membership has dropped? The society has just appeased its edifice complex by buying a big new headquarters. While the cost of the property will no doubt be paid for by donations for the purpose, I suspect that overhead will increase when it ought to be decreasing. Work expands to fill the space available. Cutting the most visible member service is not the way to grow the membership. I think board members are, perhaps naturally, prone to overestimate how interested most members of the NSS are in intangible services such as promoting cave conservation and, to a minor extent, cave science. That so few regular members have opted to continue to get the journal on paper is not an indication of interest in a paper News. The journal is (too) specialized, and anyway, the membership renewal form on the web _still_, almost two years after the change to make the paper journal optional at extra cost, has no notice of that and no way to pay that cost. (Talk about spectacular administrative incompetence!) -- Mixon Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] NSS News
Gosh, Bill, I said almost the exact same thing in the letter I sent to the BOG an hour or so ago. Just did not post it. For us, though, we do not go to conventions outside of Texas for many reasons, and have never gotten life memberships. So the NSS News is our only tangible benefit! Jim thinks if they need to save on printing something, let them quit printing the members manual and make it on line only. Done properly, it could be an amazing, digital tool for finding and contacting cavers all over. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 11:06 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: The NSS News is _the_ tangible benefit that most NSS members get. If I stopped getting it on paper, I might just drop my membership, if I wasn't in the ~ 10 percent of members who attend the convention and get a registration discount equal to dues (and if I wasn't a life member). Has the overhead in the society's budget (mainly the office) decreased as the membership has dropped? The society has just appeased its edifice complex by buying a big new headquarters. While the cost of the property will no doubt be paid for by donations for the purpose, I suspect that overhead will increase when it ought to be decreasing. Work expands to fill the space available. Cutting the most visible member service is not the way to grow the membership. I think board members are, perhaps naturally, prone to overestimate how interested most members of the NSS are in intangible services such as promoting cave conservation and, to a minor extent, cave science. That so few regular members have opted to continue to get the journal on paper is not an indication of interest in a paper News. The journal is (too) specialized, and anyway, the membership renewal form on the web _still_, almost two years after the change to make the paper journal optional at extra cost, has no notice of that and no way to pay that cost. (Talk about spectacular administrative incompetence!) -- Mixon Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsburypresid...@caves.org Reply-To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a �quick� synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion�s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) � Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board�s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are �blue-line�. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the �budget�; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC � we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of �11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget � The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to �spread the cost� for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you,
[Texascavers] UT Grotto Meeting Match 20th
Howdy Texas Cavers, This week we get to hear what was discovered at the cave near Mason, TX, which a landowner was awesome enough to invite us to checkout at the last grotto meeting. Then Pete Strickland will share his video of Deep Cave. I think we all will be glad to see Pete back at the grotto meetings! UT Grotto meeting - Wednesday from 7:45PM- 9:00PM University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall (156 West 24th Street, Austin TX 78712) http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.org Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com Cavingly, Andrea Croskrey UT Grotto Vice Chair Program Organizer
[DFWgrotto] Fwd: [Texascavers] Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7
Check the TSA web site for more details: http://www.cavetexas.org/events/TSASC/tsasc2013.php Come to the DFW grotto meeting next Wednesday, March 27 to learn more about the Convention. I will be looking for people to carpool with me, I plan to leave before 3 PM on Friday (it takes about 5 hours from the Metroplex if the traffic isn't bad). Be sure to bring money to buy caving gear, there will be lots of vendors there to sell good things to you. Last year at the Convention I ordered a nifty pair of caving pants from Ron Rutherford that have built-in kneepads and they are great! Diana From: caverarch cavera...@aol.commailto:cavera...@aol.com Subject: [Texascavers] Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7 Date: March 18, 2013 9:22:43 PM CDT To: bmorgan...@aol.commailto:bmorgan...@aol.com, texascavers@texascavers.commailto:texascavers@texascavers.com Here are the registration rates for the upcoming Spring Convention of the Texas Speleological Association at Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas: Individual Registration $16 per person Family Registration ≥ 3 persons $40 This registration includes camping for Friday and Saturday nights, attendance at the paper sessions during the day on Saturday, the TSA Business Meeting, the Big Meal on Saturday Night followed by the always fun TCMA Auction. Sunday morning highlights will be the TCMA Breakfast and Meeting, as well as an opportunity to tour Cave Without a Name. See the TSA Web Site for further details! Roger G. Moore Vice Chair UT Southwestern Medical Center The future of medicine, today. ___ DFWgrotto mailing list dfwgro...@dfwgrotto.org http://dfwgrotto.org/mailman/listinfo/dfwgrotto_dfwgrotto.org
[Texascavers] NSS President explains BOG proposal to end printed news
FYI: -- Forwarded Message From: Wm Shrewsbury presid...@caves.org Reply-To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a ³quick² synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion¹s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board¹s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are ³blue-line². For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the ³budget²; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of ¹11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to ³spread the cost² for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society
[Texascavers] Fwd: [FloridaCavers] NSS proposal to end the printed News
Here is a forward by a Florida caver of NSS President Wm Shrewsbury's summary of the budget situation and the proposal to cease a printed NSS News. Roger G. Moore This is a response by Wm Shrewsbury to the proposal to end the printed NSS News. Wendy -Original Message- From: Wm Shrewsbury presid...@caves.org To: NSSwest nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 8:53 pm Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a quick synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lions share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Boards budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are blue-line. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the budget; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of 11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to spread the cost for everyone. The most effective
texascavers Digest 20 Mar 2013 04:25:50 -0000 Issue 1725
texascavers Digest 20 Mar 2013 04:25:50 - Issue 1725 Topics (messages 21464 through 21476): At the Washington monument 21464 by: BMorgan994.aol.com Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7 21465 by: caverarch UT Grotto Meeting Match 20th 21466 by: Andrea Croskrey BOG proposal to end printed NSS News 21467 by: Frank Binney 21468 by: Phil Winkler 21469 by: Mimi Jasek 21470 by: Stefan Creaser 21472 by: Stephen Fleming 21476 by: Butch Fralia NSS President explains BOG proposal to end printed news 21471 by: Frank Binney Re: [FloridaCavers] NSS proposal to end the printed News 21473 by: caverarch Thank you. 21474 by: Espeleo Coahuila NSS News 21475 by: Mixon Bill Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com To post to the list, e-mail: texascavers@texascavers.com -- ---BeginMessage--- Enough of fear. Let's stick to perversity and the growth rate of formations in unlikely places. A DC caver friend who some of you may know works for the Park Service and for many years had the unenviable task of chasing the gay guys out of the men's room at the Washington monument at the end of each day. It seems that they were greatly inspired by the great obelisk and were leaving rapidly growing deposits not unlike the _amberrat_ (http://cdri.org/publications/nature-notes/animals/mammals/packrats/) deposits sometimes found in the latrines of packrats, but of a different substance. Perhaps moon milk is a better metaphore? I must apologize in advance for the ditty this brings to mind, one I once wrote to a paramour: If your clit was a cave pearl I'd tie off my rope descend in the void and abandon all hope. A phallic formation is the first thing I see, but it's not made of calcite that stalagmite is me! Dripping from the tip, drip by drip, it forms a new rock that accretes on my knee! SW---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Here are the registration rates for the upcoming Spring Convention of the Texas Speleological Association at Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas: Individual Registration $16 per person Family Registration ≥ 3 persons $40 This registration includes camping for Friday and Saturday nights, attendance at the paper sessions during the day on Saturday, the TSA Business Meeting, the Big Meal on Saturday Night followed by the always fun TCMA Auction. Sunday morning highlights will be the TCMA Breakfast and Meeting, as well as an opportunity to tour Cave Without a Name. See the TSA Web Site for further details! Roger G. Moore Vice Chair ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Howdy Texas Cavers, This week we get to hear what was discovered at the cave near Mason, TX, which a landowner was awesome enough to invite us to checkout at the last grotto meeting. Then Pete Strickland will share his video of Deep Cave. I think we all will be glad to see Pete back at the grotto meetings! UT Grotto meeting - Wednesday from 7:45PM- 9:00PM University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall (156 West 24th Street, Austin TX 78712) http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see www.utgrotto.org Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com Cavingly, Andrea Croskrey UT Grotto Vice Chair Program Organizer ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday¹s NSS Board of Governor¹s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn¹t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS
[Texascavers] Thank you.
Hi friends.. I want to dedicate this month by all of you! You are my family and I'm a very lucky to have a wonderful texas caver family! I don't want to forget, that you are very important in my life. Thanks for help me and support me in all my Cancer treatments I had 3 years with out cancer, the next week I have the next appointment with the doctor and the next year possible finish the treatment. wiht your love I can do it!!! Thank you! Love you. Moni. -- LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora) Associazione Geografica La Venta- Italia (socia) Centro de Estudios Karsticos La Venta (socia) Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia) 045-844-1478311 cel. monicaponce1 by skype.
[Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday¹s NSS Board of Governor¹s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn¹t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like that would need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners another way, for I personally read as little as possible on line. Besides, our printed library would suffer! Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Wonder if this one'll drag on as long as the TSA newsletter discussion of the same? ;-) Cheers, Stefan From: Phil Winkler [mailto:pw...@dca.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:16 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
The sooner the News is available in high rez PDF, the better. It is _long_ overdue. Higher quality and, most importantly, searchable. It's way past time to bring the publication up to the equivalent of LED lights and nylon replacing manila ropes and carbide lights. There are substantial savings to be had in printing and postage costs. Continuing to spend signifcant funds on a paper version borders on negligence when a far more economical production method exists. Stephen Fleming On 03/19/2013 17:26, Mimi Jasek wrote: Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like that would need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners another way, for I personally read as little as possible on line. Besides, our printed library would suffer! Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney fr...@frankbinney.com mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com wrote: BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturdayâs NSS Board of Governorâs meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadnât be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Just to throw my two cents in: I recently completed a long and arduous move during which I discovered that I have more belongings than any sane person should have (which should say something about my current state). The bulk of those belongings, I discovered, were several forests worth of trees in the form of a small-medium sized library; old newsletters; classic comix from the Gilbert Shelton, Jaxon era (KEEPERS); I think if I looked long enough I could probably find an old Charlie Loving poster or two (also keepers); magazines; family correspondence (can't get rid of that); newspaper articles (many of which I saved because they were my own work); various bureau publications which I either wrote and/or edited; and a lot more. But I tell you, after this move, I think it's a good thing we're recyclers here in Oregon because I have pretty much fallen out of love with the idea of paper dox. I belong to several organizations many of which now produce the bulk of their publications on line. If I want to save anything, I just download it to my hard drive and, after awhile, if I still find it valuable, onto a CD (or whatever comes after that). With a few exceptions, I now have no qualms about scanning much of what I have that is worth saving and putting it into an electronic file. Having worked on my family history for almost 20 years now, I'm glad my ancestors did not feel this way, but then, in the mid-1800s, they had no choice. I have a choice. I live in the Northwest home of a huge timber industry. For 32 years I have worked for a federal agency that manages forest land (among other uses) and we are under a constant barrage of lawsuits by both industry and conservationists to produce or not produce timber for a variety of uses. I've lived in this area for more than 20 years and seen both sides of the discussion. Recently I have come to the conclusion that if we have a practical, inexpensive, good quality choice, perhaps we ought to seriously consider taking it. I now step down from my soap box, Louise From: cave...@att.net To: fr...@frankbinney.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 23:25:41 -0500 Subject: RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News BOG proposal to end printed NSS NewsI think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who’ve preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can’t recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt’ a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
Re: [Texascavers] NSS News
Gosh, Bill, I said almost the exact same thing in the letter I sent to the BOG an hour or so ago. Just did not post it. For us, though, we do not go to conventions outside of Texas for many reasons, and have never gotten life memberships. So the NSS News is our only tangible benefit! Jim thinks if they need to save on printing something, let them quit printing the members manual and make it on line only. Done properly, it could be an amazing, digital tool for finding and contacting cavers all over. Mimi Jasek Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2013, at 11:06 PM, Mixon Bill bmixon...@austin.rr.com wrote: The NSS News is _the_ tangible benefit that most NSS members get. If I stopped getting it on paper, I might just drop my membership, if I wasn't in the ~ 10 percent of members who attend the convention and get a registration discount equal to dues (and if I wasn't a life member). Has the overhead in the society's budget (mainly the office) decreased as the membership has dropped? The society has just appeased its edifice complex by buying a big new headquarters. While the cost of the property will no doubt be paid for by donations for the purpose, I suspect that overhead will increase when it ought to be decreasing. Work expands to fill the space available. Cutting the most visible member service is not the way to grow the membership. I think board members are, perhaps naturally, prone to overestimate how interested most members of the NSS are in intangible services such as promoting cave conservation and, to a minor extent, cave science. That so few regular members have opted to continue to get the journal on paper is not an indication of interest in a paper News. The journal is (too) specialized, and anyway, the membership renewal form on the web _still_, almost two years after the change to make the paper journal optional at extra cost, has no notice of that and no way to pay that cost. (Talk about spectacular administrative incompetence!) -- Mixon Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue. You may reply to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsburypresid...@caves.org Reply-To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To:nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a �quick� synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion�s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) � Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board�s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are �blue-line�. For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the �budget�; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC � we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of �11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget � The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a sustainable level. To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to �spread the cost� for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society. Thank you,
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Thanks Lee, Regards, John From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Lee H. Skinner Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:43 PM To: SWR Mailing List Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News The following was posted to the Texas Caver list: - Lee Skinner From: Wm Shrewsbury mailto:presid...@caves.org presid...@caves.org Reply-To: mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com nssw...@yahoogroups.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400 To: mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com nssw...@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Everyone, There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before the board. This post is a ³quick² synopsis and not meant to be all inclusive. The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year. Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not affected the membership at large. Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal. This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used. This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up). We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion¹s share of the budget lies in the OVP and EVP departments. In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken effect, pending the outcome of the Board¹s budget decisions. The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this department are ³blue-line². For those who may not know, line items in blue in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the ³budget²; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could assist a deficit budget include: - Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to include this in the budget. - Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically, and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte system for members since the fall of ¹11. We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a thank you we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner. This budget was presented as a wake up call. The entire Board, Officers and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include: - The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands. - Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall, but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a sustainable level. - Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had adequate time to fully review this option. - Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase. Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our membership. The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless we increase our membership to a
