Re: [Texascavers] test: adios redux

[Charles Goldsmith]

Received.

On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 9:03 AM Jules Jenkins  wrote:

> Test, testing 1, 2, 3,  why are you always testing me. Some 1970’s
> country song. 
>
> Thanks Postmaster
>
> On Sep 30, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 4:22 PM Nancy Weaver  wrote:
>
>> turns out one needs to unsubscribe twice to make it happen so in the
>> meantime, am pleasantly surprised by a couple supportive posts.
>> what if we return this post to a caver campfire?   I’m sick to death of
>> squabbling and caver topic police  who never have anything of interest to
>> post but are quick to slam ‘unauthorized' posts.
>> keep it private to cavers and give people one chance to learn to be
>> civil, then toss them out.
>> maybe then long term cavers would come back and we might all have
>> conversations about whatever is of interest to us.
>> in 80’s and 90’s caver conversation ranged all over the world, included
>> interesting ideas, inventions, and practical jokes.  and it was generally
>> generous, not hateful.
>> and for god’s sake, if you don’t care for what someone posts, ignore it.
>> this is not to slight the creator and maintainer of this forum, just to
>> say maybe its time to change the way its done.
>> Nancy
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
> <0.jpeg>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[James Jasek]

Also a subscriber and will remain so for quite a number of years as long as it 
doesn’t get too bad

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Geary Schindel  
> wrote:
> 


Interesting, I clicked on it from the Facebook post and it took me right to the 
article.
 
However, I’m also a subscriber.
 
Geary
 
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Bill 
Bentley
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 9:56 AM
To: CaveTex 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave
 
Can't read the article as it says you have to be a subscriber of the San 
Antonio Express newspaper. 
 
On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:51 AM Geary Schindel  
wrote:
Folks,

I have a caving post.

I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell, and Joe 
Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron Open House. 
It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also for Elaine and 
Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and degassing. I know 
that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend the event as well as 
all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always great to see cavers - 
young and old to volunteer to support caves and caving events. THANK YOU. 

I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major fund 
raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there was some 
great outreach by many of the organizations present including the TSA, Bexar 
Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link to an article 
in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see. 
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
 Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano who 
is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an agent). 

I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a 
similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open 
House is a great model.

Thanks,

Geary M. Schindel
President
National Speleological Society
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown 
senders***
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[James Jasek]

I totally agree everybody that there was was there was did a fantastic job Mimi 
and I arrived from Waco around 9 AM and stay the entire day the minute we got 
there we were part of the service crew selling T-shirts publications and giving 
advice to the people who showed up to go in the cave it was a fantastic thing 
to belong to next year I plan to take over the care photography in the cave and 
do all of the photography of the people who show up for the groups

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Geary Schindel  
> wrote:
> 

Folks,

I have a caving post.

I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell, and Joe 
Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron Open House. 
It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also for Elaine and 
Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and degassing. I know 
that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend the event as well as 
all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always great to see cavers - 
young and old to volunteer to support caves and caving events. THANK YOU. 

I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major fund 
raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there was some 
great outreach by many of the organizations present including the TSA, Bexar 
Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link to an article 
in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see. 
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
 Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano who 
is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an agent). 

I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a 
similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open 
House is a great model.

Thanks,

Geary M. Schindel
President
National Speleological Society
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[James Jasek]

Lindsay it sure was good to meet you after all these years thank you very much 
James Jasek

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 9:58 AM, Lindsey Adamoski  
> wrote:
> 


Thanks Geary!! I was able to read the article without subscribing.

> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:57 AM Geary Schindel  
> wrote:
> Interesting, I clicked on it from the Facebook post and it took me right to 
> the article.
> 
>  
> 
> However, I’m also a subscriber.
> 
>  
> 
> Geary
> 
>  
> 
> From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Bill 
> Bentley
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 9:56 AM
> To: CaveTex 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave
> 
>  
> 
> Can't read the article as it says you have to be a subscriber of the San 
> Antonio Express newspaper. 
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:51 AM Geary Schindel  
> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I have a caving post.
> 
> I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell, and 
> Joe Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron Open 
> House. It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also for 
> Elaine and Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and 
> degassing. I know that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend 
> the event as well as all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always 
> great to see cavers - young and old to volunteer to support caves and caving 
> events. THANK YOU. 
> 
> I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major fund 
> raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there was some 
> great outreach by many of the organizations present including the TSA, Bexar 
> Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link to an article 
> in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see. 
> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
>  Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano 
> who is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an 
> agent). 
> 
> I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a 
> similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open 
> House is a great model.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Geary M. Schindel
> President
> National Speleological Society
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
> ***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown 
> senders***
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] adios redux

[James Jasek]

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Nancy Weaver  wrote:
> 

turns out one needs to unsubscribe twice to make it happen so in the meantime, 
am pleasantly surprised by a couple supportive posts.  
what if we return this post to a caver campfire?   I’m sick to death of 
squabbling and caver topic police  who never have anything of interest to post 
but are quick to slam ‘unauthorized' posts.  
keep it private to cavers and give people one chance to learn to be civil, then 
toss them out.  
maybe then long term cavers would come back and we might all have conversations 
about whatever is of interest to us.
in 80’s and 90’s caver conversation ranged all over the world, included 
interesting ideas, inventions, and practical jokes.  and it was generally 
generous, not hateful.  
and for god’s sake, if you don’t care for what someone posts, ignore it.
this is not to slight the creator and maintainer of this forum, just to say 
maybe its time to change the way its done.
Nancy
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election

[James Jasek]

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Linda Palit  wrote:
> 


If you are a current member of the TSA then you should have received a ballot 
in your email. Please check your spam if you have not received one.  Please 
vote as soon as possible.  

Thanks.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election

[James Jasek]

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Linda Palit  wrote:
> 


If you are a current member of the TSA then you should have received a ballot 
in your email. Please check your spam if you have not received one.  Please 
vote as soon as possible.  

Thanks.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Election

[James Jasek]

Sent from my iPhoneX

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 10:22 AM, Linda Palit  wrote:
> 


If you are a current member of the TSA then you should have received a ballot 
in your email. Please check your spam if you have not received one.  Please 
vote as soon as possible.  

Thanks.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum

[bmorgan994]

No Nancy, please, we need you and everyone else including David to keep this 
strange little community and the memories therein alive.   Who cares if there 
is a lunatic babbling in the distance. 

Sleazel 

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Nancy 
Weaver
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 9:59 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum

well, I’ve hung in here for a long time. but since next to nothing of caving 
interest is written these days and unintelligible rants and hysterical attacks 
are the norm, think I’ll find somewhere else to go.  adios.  and good luck Nancy

> On Sep 29, 2019, at 3:23 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
> 
> Folks -
> 
> Please do not forget that this forum is public and has many members outside 
> of the caving community.  We have cave owners, regulatory agency personnel 
> and the general public interested in caves.  Use better judgement please.
> 
> This isn't bookface.  
> 
> Joe
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | 
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum

[jerryatkin]

Hang in there with the rest of us, Nancy ! 

Sent from my iPhone
Jerry Atkinson

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Bill Steele  wrote:
> 
> I wholeheartedly agree with Andy. Thank you, Nancy.
> 
> Bill Steele 
> 
>> On Sep 30, 2019, at 9:35 AM, grub...@centurytel.net wrote:
>> 
>> Nancy, this community owes you a very large thank you for all you have done 
>> recently helping some of the members of our community.  I personally wish 
>> you the best in your future endevors and am grateful that you were there to 
>> help my dear friends
>> Grubbsi
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Nancy Weaver" 
>> To: "texascavers" 
>> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 8:58:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum
>> 
>> well, I’ve hung in here for a long time. but since next to nothing of caving 
>> interest is written these days and unintelligible rants and hysterical 
>> attacks are the norm, think I’ll find somewhere else to go.  adios.  and 
>> good luck
>> Nancy
>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 3:23 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Folks - 
>>> 
>>> Please do not forget that this forum is public and has many members outside 
>>> of the caving community.  We have cave owners, regulatory agency personnel 
>>> and the general public interested in caves.  Use better judgement please.
>>> 
>>> This isn't bookface.  
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[Jacqueline Thomas]

Geary,
If/when you get the Shelta Cave thing going, keep me in mind! Especially if 
there’s camping. Jacqui


J. LaRue Thomas
jlrtho...@verizon.net


> On Sep 30, 2019, at 9:50 AM, Geary Schindel  
> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I have a caving post.
> 
> I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell, and 
> Joe Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron Open 
> House. It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also for 
> Elaine and Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and 
> degassing. I know that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend 
> the event as well as all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always 
> great to see cavers - young and old to volunteer to support caves and caving 
> events. THANK YOU. 
> 
> I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major fund 
> raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there was some 
> great outreach by many of the organizations present including the TSA, Bexar 
> Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link to an article 
> in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see. 
> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
>  Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano 
> who is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an 
> agent). 
> 
> I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a 
> similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open 
> House is a great model.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Geary M. Schindel
> President
> National Speleological Society
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[Michael Harris]

Not exactly true since we had trips throughout the year but what can you do
about mediaf!

Mike Harris

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 10:04 AM Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

> And Express News had to append this at the end of each and
> every photo caption:
>
> "The cave had been closed for 18 months after a student became trapped
> and had to be rescued by firefighters."
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 9:51 AM Geary Schindel <
> gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org> wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I have a caving post.
>>
>> I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell,
>> and Joe Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron
>> Open House. It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also
>> for Elaine and Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and
>> degassing. I know that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend
>> the event as well as all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always
>> great to see cavers - young and old to volunteer to support caves and
>> caving events. THANK YOU.
>>
>> I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major
>> fund raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there
>> was some great outreach by many of the organizations present including the
>> TSA, Bexar Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link
>> to an article in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see.
>> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
>> Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano
>> who is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an
>> agent).
>>
>> I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a
>> similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open
>> House is a great model.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Geary M. Schindel
>> President
>> National Speleological Society
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[Lyndon Tiu]

And Express News had to append this at the end of each and
every photo caption:

"The cave had been closed for 18 months after a student became trapped and
had to be rescued by firefighters."

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 9:51 AM Geary Schindel 
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I have a caving post.
>
> I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell,
> and Joe Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron
> Open House. It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also
> for Elaine and Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and
> degassing. I know that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend
> the event as well as all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always
> great to see cavers - young and old to volunteer to support caves and
> caving events. THANK YOU.
>
> I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major
> fund raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there
> was some great outreach by many of the organizations present including the
> TSA, Bexar Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link
> to an article in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see.
> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
> Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano
> who is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an
> agent).
>
> I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a
> similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open
> House is a great model.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geary M. Schindel
> President
> National Speleological Society
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[Lindsey Adamoski]

Thanks Geary!! I was able to read the article without subscribing.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:57 AM Geary Schindel 
wrote:

> Interesting, I clicked on it from the Facebook post and it took me right
> to the article.
>
>
>
> However, I’m also a subscriber.
>
>
>
> Geary
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers  *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Bentley
> *Sent:* Monday, September 30, 2019 9:56 AM
> *To:* CaveTex 
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave
>
>
>
> Can't read the article as it says you have to be a subscriber of the San
> Antonio Express newspaper.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:51 AM Geary Schindel 
> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I have a caving post.
>
> I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell,
> and Joe Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron
> Open House. It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also
> for Elaine and Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and
> degassing. I know that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend
> the event as well as all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always
> great to see cavers - young and old to volunteer to support caves and
> caving events. THANK YOU.
>
> I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major
> fund raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there
> was some great outreach by many of the organizations present including the
> TSA, Bexar Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link
> to an article in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see.
> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
> Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano
> who is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an
> agent).
>
> I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a
> similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open
> House is a great model.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geary M. Schindel
> President
> National Speleological Society
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> ***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown
> senders***
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[Katherine Arens]

perhaps download for us all as pdf?

On Sep 30, 2019, at 9:57 AM, Geary Schindel 
mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org>> wrote:

Interesting, I clicked on it from the Facebook post and it took me right to the 
article.

However, I’m also a subscriber.

Geary

From: Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com>>
 On Behalf Of Bill Bentley
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 9:56 AM
To: CaveTex mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

Can't read the article as it says you have to be a subscriber of the San 
Antonio Express newspaper.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:51 AM Geary Schindel 
mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org>> wrote:
Folks,

I have a caving post.

I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell, and Joe 
Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron Open House. 
It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also for Elaine and 
Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and degassing. I know 
that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend the event as well as 
all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always great to see cavers - 
young and old to volunteer to support caves and caving events. THANK YOU.

I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major fund 
raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there was some 
great outreach by many of the organizations present including the TSA, Bexar 
Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link to an article 
in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see. 
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
 Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano who 
is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an agent).

I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a 
similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open 
House is a great model.

Thanks,

Geary M. Schindel
President
National Speleological Society
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com<http://texascavers.com/>
Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown 
senders***
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com<http://texascavers.com/>
Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.<<


Katherine Arens, ProfessorPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu<mailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu>   Dept. Phone:  (512) 
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300  Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '




___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[Geary Schindel]

Interesting, I clicked on it from the Facebook post and it took me right to the 
article.

However, I’m also a subscriber.

Geary

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Bill 
Bentley
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 9:56 AM
To: CaveTex 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

Can't read the article as it says you have to be a subscriber of the San 
Antonio Express newspaper.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:51 AM Geary Schindel 
mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org>> wrote:
Folks,

I have a caving post.

I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell, and Joe 
Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron Open House. 
It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also for Elaine and 
Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and degassing. I know 
that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend the event as well as 
all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always great to see cavers - 
young and old to volunteer to support caves and caving events. THANK YOU.

I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major fund 
raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there was some 
great outreach by many of the organizations present including the TSA, Bexar 
Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link to an article 
in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see. 
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
 Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano who 
is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an agent).

I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a 
similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open 
House is a great model.

Thanks,

Geary M. Schindel
President
National Speleological Society
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown 
senders***
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave

[Bill Bentley]

Can't read the article as it says you have to be a subscriber of the San
Antonio Express newspaper.

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 9:51 AM Geary Schindel 
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I have a caving post.
>
> I want to say how impressed I was with Lindsey Adamonski, Joe Mitchell,
> and Joe Ranzau and the many many volunteers that worked on the Robber Baron
> Open House. It was an outstanding event and incredibly well organized. Also
> for Elaine and Rob Bissett for organizing the After Open House party and
> degassing. I know that many cavers drove from Austin and Houston to attend
> the event as well as all the cavers from the San Antonio area. It is always
> great to see cavers - young and old to volunteer to support caves and
> caving events. THANK YOU.
>
> I understand that more than 700 folks visited the cave, it was a major
> fund raiser which will go back into the caving community, and that there
> was some great outreach by many of the organizations present including the
> TSA, Bexar Grotto, TCMA, TSP, Master Naturalists, EAA, etc. Here is a link
> to an article in the San Antonio Express News you all may want to see.
> https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Hundreds-flock-to-Robber-Baron-to-get-rare-14475886.php
> Make sure that you click through the photos and see the one of Mio Kitano
> who is covered in the Express News on a regular basis (I think she needs an
> agent).
>
> I've been working with some of the folks in the Huntsville area to hold a
> similar event in Shelta Cave in Huntsville, Alabama. The Robber Baron Open
> House is a great model.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geary M. Schindel
> President
> National Speleological Society
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum

[Bill Steele]

I wholeheartedly agree with Andy. Thank you, Nancy.

Bill Steele 

> On Sep 30, 2019, at 9:35 AM, grub...@centurytel.net wrote:
> 
> Nancy, this community owes you a very large thank you for all you have done 
> recently helping some of the members of our community.  I personally wish you 
> the best in your future endevors and am grateful that you were there to help 
> my dear friends
> Grubbsi
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Nancy Weaver" 
> To: "texascavers" 
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 8:58:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum
> 
> well, I’ve hung in here for a long time. but since next to nothing of caving 
> interest is written these days and unintelligible rants and hysterical 
> attacks are the norm, think I’ll find somewhere else to go.  adios.  and good 
> luck
> Nancy
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2019, at 3:23 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
>> 
>> Folks - 
>> 
>> Please do not forget that this forum is public and has many members outside 
>> of the caving community.  We have cave owners, regulatory agency personnel 
>> and the general public interested in caves.  Use better judgement please.
>> 
>> This isn't bookface.  
>> 
>> Joe
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum

[grubbsi]

Nancy, this community owes you a very large thank you for all you have done 
recently helping some of the members of our community.  I personally wish you 
the best in your future endevors and am grateful that you were there to help my 
dear friends
Grubbsi

- Original Message -
From: "Nancy Weaver" 
To: "texascavers" 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 8:58:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum

well, I’ve hung in here for a long time. but since next to nothing of caving 
interest is written these days and unintelligible rants and hysterical attacks 
are the norm, think I’ll find somewhere else to go.  adios.  and good luck
Nancy

> On Sep 29, 2019, at 3:23 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
> 
> Folks - 
> 
> Please do not forget that this forum is public and has many members outside 
> of the caving community.  We have cave owners, regulatory agency personnel 
> and the general public interested in caves.  Use better judgement please.
> 
> This isn't bookface.  
> 
> Joe
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers is a Public forum

[Nancy Weaver]

well, I’ve hung in here for a long time. but since next to nothing of caving 
interest is written these days and unintelligible rants and hysterical attacks 
are the norm, think I’ll find somewhere else to go.  adios.  and good luck
Nancy

> On Sep 29, 2019, at 3:23 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
> 
> Folks - 
> 
> Please do not forget that this forum is public and has many members outside 
> of the caving community.  We have cave owners, regulatory agency personnel 
> and the general public interested in caves.  Use better judgement please.
> 
> This isn't bookface.  
> 
> Joe
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] How to filter certain people on this forum

[Julia Germany]

http://texascavers.com/rules.html

Texascavers:  The Rules


One:  THOU SHALT NOT FLAME! Civil discourse and discussion is encouraged. It's 
ok to disagree, but do so agreeably.  The List Keeper reserves the right to 
remove persistent violators.


On Sep 29, 2019, at 11:33 PM, Michael Gibbons 
<6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's very interesting stuff.  I guess that self work both ways invader 
annoying find your rhetoric to be drivel.  From what I've experienced that is 
precisely where ther disconnect lay.
Ther majority try (by your own admission) to bully someone an opinion different 
than yours into leaving ther forum.  That's  mighty 1st amendment of you. It's 
refreshing see that someones civil rights can only be trodden upon and the 
individual simply harrsssed into submission. It would be ashame to just leave 
some be that doesnt agree with you. It would be terrible to try to ascertain 
what makes them draw the conclusions they do. God forbid the annoying guy have 
something enlightening to say. And far be it from those that know all the 
correct answers to the worlds woes be motivated to some soul searching  to find 
what makes their actions contrary to the their tolerant conception of 
themselves.
It would a travesty to gang up on someone of a differing opinion. To inundate 
that person with veiled insults and innuendo regarding his IQ simply because he 
sees the world differently. Intimidating be sheer volume of passive aggressive 
language designed to bait a response in kind. Then to blame the ugliness that 
ensues on the lone annoying guy, who simply reacts as anyone does when faced 
with bullies and person who jump to judgement without a modicum of respect for 
the annoying guy.
It's a shame that the collective majority with the highest opinion of 
themselves, find themselves so vulnerable to the ideas they dont understand 
that it causes their collective mind to snap shut. Disallowing anything 
familiar to penetrate the comfortable space they claim as their own and protect 
vehemently by any means necessary. It matters not if those means are 180° askew 
of the philosophy they pride themselves on and part each other on back in 
mutual admiration.
Its dismaying to witness the mutual admiration society in full acceptance of 
the groups tactics that dispensed with the unwanted point of view. Like pet 
dogs that were lost in a storm and found each other. For the survival of the 
pack they abandon the domestication that held them in regard with society for 
the nasty aggression that binds them to one another and insures no other 
disturbs the pecking order of the pack.
I think annoying guy guy might use the tools you have shared. Though I doubt 
you will ever be rid of him. Historically those that are treated with a certain 
level of inequality gather strength if they dont already have the fortitude, to 
resist and confront those who wish to to treat him poorly.
Smart people, especially ones that trumpet the value of fair play, tolerance 
and acceptance actually practice those traits they hold in such high regard. 
But it takes a secure self esteem and fearless ego to lower ones self to a 
level of truly embracing the unpopular. Only when one can reach that level of 
humility will they ever understand the need to look inside ones self to find 
the fault of the outsider.
He understands you. You can not make that same claim.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 9:51 PM William R. Elliott 
mailto:speodes...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear friends on TexasCavers,

I have a suggestion that might help some of you filter out the ugly comments, 
boring and inane reporting, and generally annoying stuff that gets posted here 
too often. Lately most of it comes from two individuals. We apparently cannot 
make them quit the forum, unfortunately, but plenty of good folks have quit 
because of them. And when reasonable people try to best them, the replies get 
worse.

Reminds me of a quote from the first True Grit movie (1969), "Why, you've done 
nothing when you've bested a fool!" (spoken by Glenn Campbell as Texas Ranger 
LaBoeuf)

I've had a gmail filter on one particular person for a couple of years, and it 
works well most of the time. I don't even see his stuff, that is unless some of 
you reply to him, then those replies and his original post get through to me, 
but it does cut down 80-90% of the stupid stuff being posted.

I just created another filter for Annoying Guy #2.

Many of you have gmail. In gmail click on Settings (little gear on the upper 
right), then Settings inside that. In a few seconds a page appears with menus 
along the top. Click on "Filters and Blocked Emails." Inside that it says "The 
following filters are applied to all incoming mail:" Below that click on 
"Create a new filter". Then you will see a form, pasted below. In the From 
field put (texascavers@texascavers.com). In 
the field "Has the words" type the person's name or email as it 

Re: [Texascavers] How to filter certain people on this forum

[jerryatkin]

U.. I don’t think your message went through to the intended recipient 
since you’ve been filtered out of his existence. No sense responding to this 
email either as I am doing the same. 

Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone
Jerry Atkinson

> On Sep 29, 2019, at 10:33 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That's very interesting stuff.  I guess that self work both ways invader 
> annoying find your rhetoric to be drivel.  From what I've experienced that is 
> precisely where ther disconnect lay. 
> Ther majority try (by your own admission) to bully someone an opinion 
> different than yours into leaving ther forum.  That's  mighty 1st amendment 
> of you. It's refreshing see that someones civil rights can only be trodden 
> upon and the individual simply harrsssed into submission. It would be ashame 
> to just leave some be that doesnt agree with you. It would be terrible to try 
> to ascertain what makes them draw the conclusions they do. God forbid the 
> annoying guy have something enlightening to say. And far be it from those 
> that know all the correct answers to the worlds woes be motivated to some 
> soul searching  to find what makes their actions contrary to the their 
> tolerant conception of themselves.
> It would a travesty to gang up on someone of a differing opinion. To inundate 
> that person with veiled insults and innuendo regarding his IQ simply because 
> he sees the world differently. Intimidating be sheer volume of passive 
> aggressive language designed to bait a response in kind. Then to blame the 
> ugliness that ensues on the lone annoying guy, who simply reacts as anyone 
> does when faced with bullies and person who jump to judgement without a 
> modicum of respect for the annoying guy.
> It's a shame that the collective majority with the highest opinion of 
> themselves, find themselves so vulnerable to the ideas they dont understand 
> that it causes their collective mind to snap shut. Disallowing anything 
> familiar to penetrate the comfortable space they claim as their own and 
> protect vehemently by any means necessary. It matters not if those means are 
> 180° askew of the philosophy they pride themselves on and part each other on 
> back in mutual admiration.
> Its dismaying to witness the mutual admiration society in full acceptance of 
> the groups tactics that dispensed with the unwanted point of view. Like pet 
> dogs that were lost in a storm and found each other. For the survival of the 
> pack they abandon the domestication that held them in regard with society for 
> the nasty aggression that binds them to one another and insures no other 
> disturbs the pecking order of the pack.
> I think annoying guy guy might use the tools you have shared. Though I doubt 
> you will ever be rid of him. Historically those that are treated with a 
> certain level of inequality gather strength if they dont already have the 
> fortitude, to resist and confront those who wish to to treat him poorly. 
> Smart people, especially ones that trumpet the value of fair play, tolerance 
> and acceptance actually practice those traits they hold in such high regard. 
> But it takes a secure self esteem and fearless ego to lower ones self to a 
> level of truly embracing the unpopular. Only when one can reach that level of 
> humility will they ever understand the need to look inside ones self to find 
> the fault of the outsider.
> He understands you. You can not make that same claim.
> 
>> On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 9:51 PM William R. Elliott  
>> wrote:
>> Dear friends on TexasCavers,
>> 
>> I have a suggestion that might help some of you filter out the ugly 
>> comments, boring and inane reporting, and generally annoying stuff that gets 
>> posted here too often. Lately most of it comes from two individuals. We 
>> apparently cannot make them quit the forum, unfortunately, but plenty of 
>> good folks have quit because of them. And when reasonable people try to best 
>> them, the replies get worse. 
>> 
>> Reminds me of a quote from the first True Grit movie (1969), "Why, you've 
>> done nothing when you've bested a fool!" (spoken by Glenn Campbell as Texas 
>> Ranger LaBoeuf)
>> 
>> I've had a gmail filter on one particular person for a couple of years, and 
>> it works well most of the time. I don't even see his stuff, that is unless 
>> some of you reply to him, then those replies and his original post get 
>> through to me, but it does cut down 80-90% of the stupid stuff being posted.
>> 
>> I just created another filter for Annoying Guy #2. 
>> 
>> Many of you have gmail. In gmail click on Settings (little gear on the upper 
>> right), then Settings inside that. In a few seconds a page appears with 
>> menus along the top. Click on "Filters and Blocked Emails." Inside that it 
>> says "The following filters are applied to all incoming mail:" Below that 
>> click on "Create a new filter". Then you will see a form, pasted below. In 
>> the From field put 

Re: [Texascavers] a personal story

[Michael Gibbons]

You need to make TCR and tell us the rest of the story at story telling
night.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 1:46 PM David  wrote:

> Please email me privately if you would like to hear the details
> of my daughter's quincea~nera ( a.k.a. CavePearl ).
>
> I am only posting this hear, as I have not other way to get
> the story out to my friends, and I had invited a few cavers to
> attend.
>
> Below is a short summary ( hit delete button now )
>
> CavePearl's Mother ( herein, CPM ), planned most
> of the event, and I was just along for the ride, patching
> problems in the background.
>
> The police had to come and shut the party down at
> 1:30 a.m. this morning.   It
> was moved from the venue ( the neighborhood clubhouse ) back to CPM's house
> where it continued on as Mexican slumber-party for about 30 of my
> in-laws from Reynosa, Tamaulipas, Mexico. Their caravan is southbound
> now on Hwy. 59
> heading back to Mexico. The party was quite extravagant
> and my mother-in-law now thinks I am an angel.CPM
> is happy that I rescued the party from an imminent disaster of lack of
> food and cold beverage.The Locklear clan is now northbound on I-45 for
> Midlothian
> /Mansfield.And my mom and her husband's family ( Tomlinson clan ) are
> back home near
> Cypress and The Woodlands.   And
> I just got back to Houston, after staying in a hotel nearly two days near
> Sienna Plantation ( party was 7 miles southwest of Arcola ).
>
> My Toyota Sequoia almost paid for itself during this event.CavePearl
> fainted during the photo-session.  I had to eat dinner next to my
> very estranged-ex-sister in-law, ( who had once assaulted me with an old
> telephone. )   CPM's boss and her boss' husband had dinner together for the
> first time in several years. My mom and biological-father were in the
> same
> room for only the 3rd time since 1972.Having him there was like having
> a sack of rocks tied to my leg and a scorpion in my pants.
>
> All 140 guest showed up with no food or beverage, but over a dozen
> friends of CPM slaved away on various task, that would have cost us
> thousands of dollars had we had to hire someone to do all that. I can
> only guess we got
> it done for under $ 3,000, ( not including what all the 140 guest spent on
> travel expenses )
>
> The venue was a new elegant building that was spacious,
> and very comfortable, which encouraged a lot of people to stay and
> socialize.  I was too doing party-task for the past 24 hours to take it
> all in and relax.The DJ was good ( teenage latino music ), and people
> danced for at least 4 hours, mostly
> the teenagers.But my 84 year old mother-in-law, and my 72 year old
> mom,
> danced once, as did many of the adult couples.
>
> [ Sidenote:  100% of my side of the family spends hours a day watching
> Foxnews, so their first
> quincean~era was a huge shock to their ideology about the direction
> American culture is heading in. ]
>
> A thousand photos and a hundred videos were taken, as if some royal person
> from an aristocratic
> family had just married.
>
> Party tip / lesson learned: Someone bring a sack of pita chips.
>
>
>
> I will likely have to skip TCR. See you all in 2020.
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave Open House Success

[Linda Palit]

Volunteers from Austin and Houston too!  Thanks so much to all for the help!

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 3:04 PM Mimi Jasek  wrote:

> You had volunteers from as far away as Waco too! 
>
> It was an outstanding event, and everyone seemed to love it. Folks waited
> for quite a while in the heat for their turn to go underground, or even
> left and came back! Such fun was had they even left and came back later to
> get their photo!
>
> Another huge Texas caving community success.
>
> Mimi Jasek
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 29, 2019, at 2:17 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
>
> A huge thank you to everyone that turned out to our Robber Baron Cave
> 
> open house! We officially had 749 people visit the cave with many more
> stopping by to visit the information booths on the surface.
>
> A big thanks goes to our fellow conservation organizations that came out
> to share their great work with our visitors. National Speleological
> Society Community
> ,
> Bat Conservation International's Bracken Bat Cave
> ,
> Texas Parks and Wildlife
> ,
> Bexar Grotto
> 
> and Alamo Area Texas Master Naturalists
> 
> !
>
> TCMA is an all volunteer organization and we are solely funded through our
> donors and members. We raised approximately $7k dollars which will make a
> significant contribution towards our mission of Cave and Karst Conservation
> in Texas. That's nearly 1/3 of our yearly budget!
>
> None of this would have been possible with out the dedication of our
> wonderful volunteers. A huge thanks to everyone who volunteered their time.
> Folks traveled from as far away as Houston and Austin to help out. Special
> recognition goes to Lindsey Adamoski
> 
> for spearheading the effort and our preserve managers Mike Harris and Joe
> Mitchell
> 
> !
>
> Please visit www.TCMACAVES.org
> 
> for more information on our organization or to make a donation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe
> President | Texas Cave Management Association
> www.tcmacaves.org
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Robber Baron Cave Open House Success

[Mimi Jasek]

You had volunteers from as far away as Waco too!  

It was an outstanding event, and everyone seemed to love it. Folks waited for 
quite a while in the heat for their turn to go underground, or even left and 
came back! Such fun was had they even left and came back later to get their 
photo!

Another huge Texas caving community success. 

Mimi Jasek

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2019, at 2:17 PM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
> 
> A huge thank you to everyone that turned out to our Robber Baron Cave open 
> house! We officially had 749 people visit the cave with many more stopping by 
> to visit the information booths on the surface.
> 
> A big thanks goes to our fellow conservation organizations that came out to 
> share their great work with our visitors.  National Speleological Society 
> Community, Bat Conservation International's Bracken Bat Cave, Texas Parks and 
> Wildlife, Bexar Grotto and Alamo Area Texas Master Naturalists!
> 
> TCMA is an all volunteer organization and we are solely funded through our 
> donors and members. We raised approximately $7k dollars which will make a 
> significant contribution towards our mission of Cave and Karst Conservation 
> in Texas. That's nearly 1/3 of our yearly budget!
> 
> None of this would have been possible with out the dedication of our 
> wonderful volunteers. A huge thanks to everyone who volunteered their time. 
> Folks traveled from as far away as Houston and Austin to help out. Special 
> recognition goes to Lindsey Adamoski for spearheading the effort and our 
> preserve managers Mike Harris and Joe Mitchell!
> 
> Please visit www.TCMACAVES.org for more information on our organization or to 
> make a donation.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Joe
> President | Texas Cave Management Association
> www.tcmacaves.org
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] quincea~nera

[Michael Gibbons]

I dont know what your talking about.  Apparently you don't either.  But
those words were spoken like a practiced racist.  I guess your true colors
are shining through.
Claims not to be prejudiced and posts hateful remarks like that.
Claims to having no intent of starting a fight and posts veiled innuendo
referring to his foe and their family.
I'd say those are words of a coward who hides behind fake convictions,
misplaced anger and a deep seated hate for everyone who does smolder with
the same failing ideology as he.
Sorry sports your lies are more than I'll tolerate. I can get along grizzly
bear but a thief and a liar wont be tolerated. Dont email me any more. I
have no use for you.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 2:01 PM Dwight Deal  wrote:

> I'm glad that the experience was educational for the 100% of your family
> who spends hours a day watching Foxnews.
>
> I can only imagine! NOT a Fake Event at all. But, will it have any effect
> on how they feel about those awful Mesicans?
>
>
> DirtDoc
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] quincea~nera

[PRESTON FORSYTHE]

The spring of 2014, for 5 months, we spent every weekend volunteering at 
Huntsville fixing it up for the convention. Night and day, Fri. 9 pm to Sun. 
noon to 2 pm.
The hall was rented many of those nights to those 15 yr old coming out parties. 
By and large these were very drunken parties by 11 pm. Drunk, fightsand the 
next day broken glass all over the parking lot...lots of broken glass. I put my 
foot down one Sunday morning and declared no more glass on the property, and 
you know, that was it.
We do not have as many parties there now, as not fully recovered from no up 
front bathrooms last year, but do wish rentals would increase. When the hall is 
rented we now require 2 to 4 off duty policeman to be hired by the group, 
depending on the size of the group, and a definite closing time, like 1 am.
Can you believe TCMA had a 750 people plus turn-out!
Preston Forsythe in KY

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 2:01 PM, Dwight Deal wrote:   
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
  
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] quincea~nera

[Dwight Deal]

I'm glad that the experience was educational for the 100% of your family who 
spends hours a day watching Foxnews.

I can only imagine! NOT a Fake Event at all. But, will it have any effect on 
how they feel about those awful Mesicans?


DirtDoc
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCR firewood

[John Schneider]

Mike,

Thanks for your thanks, but I need help unloading the fire wood.
So far I have 1 maybe.  I was hoping more people from SA would volunteer as it 
is a short drive for them.

John

On Sep 28, 2019, at 6:25 PM, Mike Flannigan  wrote:


Wow, a hot tub.  That is super cool.  It makes a
difference to some of us.  Thanks for doing all that.


Mike


On 9/27/2019 11:00 AM, texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com wrote:
> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:15:30 -0500
> From: John Schneider
> To: Texas Cavers
> Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCR firewood
> Message-ID:<2eb54fb7-c8d1-4da4-a347-b91e8b37d...@gvtc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> I need some help (2 maybe 3 people) Sunday afternoon Oct 6 (the Sunday 4 days 
> before the TCR) to help me unload the hot tub/sauna fire wood.
> I will be there around 1-1:30.  It should take 30-45 minutes depending on how 
> many people show up.
> Please let me know if you plan to help atjsschneid...@gvtc.com  
>   or (281) 851-9552 so we can coordinate things.
> 
> John Schneider


___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCR firewood

[Mike Flannigan]

Wow, a hot tub.  That is super cool.  It makes a
difference to some of us.  Thanks for doing all that.


Mike


On 9/27/2019 11:00 AM, texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com wrote:

Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:15:30 -0500
From: John Schneider
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: TCR firewood
Message-ID:<2eb54fb7-c8d1-4da4-a347-b91e8b37d...@gvtc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"


I need some help (2 maybe 3 people) Sunday afternoon Oct 6 (the Sunday 4 days 
before the TCR) to help me unload the hot tub/sauna fire wood.
I will be there around 1-1:30.  It should take 30-45 minutes depending on how 
many people show up.
Please let me know if you plan to help atjsschneid...@gvtc.com  
  or (281) 851-9552 so we can coordinate things.

John Schneider



___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] 6th Texas Hydro Geo Workshop, Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas October 4-6. 2019

[grubbsi]

woops  hateful demons in my computer sent that to the wrong address

- Original Message -
From: "grubbsi" 
To: "texascavers" 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2019 3:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 6th Texas Hydro Geo Workshop, Cave Without a Name, 
Boerne, Texas October 4-6. 2019

yes I fairly easily found what i ws looking for also got records for 2 old oil 
well drilled in early 80s that are listed as plugged.  doing soil test now

- Original Message -
From: "Geary Schindel" 
To: "texascavers" 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2019 3:22:06 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] 6th Texas Hydro Geo Workshop, Cave Without a Name, 
Boerne, Texas October 4-6. 2019

Folks,

This is a reminder that we have a few spots still left to attend the 6th Texas 
Hydro Geo Workshop at Cave Without a Name near Boerne, Texas. The dates are 
October 4 through 6 (Next Friday through Sunday). We have a number of new 
modules and sponsors for the event with folks registered from as far away as 
Kentucky and West Virginia. To register for the event, you can visit 
https://hydrogeoworkshop.org/.

We have more than 40 modules scheduled for the weekend. Those that are cave and 
karst related including:

Cave Surveying presented Marvin Miller and Tom Rogers
Knots presented by Garry White
How to us a GPS receiver by Grant Snyder and P.B. Snyder
Surface Geophysics (Natural Potential) by Mustafa Saribudak, Alf Hawkins, and 
Sebastian Taylor
Stream Gauging presented by Marcus Gary, Kevin Urbanczyk, and Justin Camp
Tracer Testing in Karst by Ralph Ewers, Peter Idstein, Roger Andrade, and Chris 
Russoniello
Cave Geology by Brian Smith
Karst Feature Evaluation using the TCEQ Forms by Phil Pearce and Ben Dilly
Stalagmites as Paleoclimate Archives with Chris Ray and Ligun Tian
Rock Identification with Richard Silver and Jesse Chadwick
Cave Biological Inventory with Benjamin Hutchins
Herpetological Field Survey Techniques with Jenny and tony Blair
Safety in the Vertical Environment - Christopher Franke, Steve Gutierrez, and 
Ross Webb
Field Trip to a Wild Cave with the Bexar Grotto members

A review of the program guide can be found at 
https://hydrogeoworkshop.org/docs/HGWProgram19.pdf

A special thanks to our sponsors including:
Cave Without a Name
AGI - Advanced Geosciences, Inc.
Association of Environmental and Engineering Geologists
Austin Geological Society
Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer Conservation District
Blair Wildlife Consulting
Cibolo Nature Center
Cow Creek Groundwater Conservation District
DNA Geosciences
Edwards Aquifer Authority
Estwing Mgt Co.
Eureka Waterprobes
Exlog Excellence Logging
Geo Cam Inc.
H.E.B.
Hicks & Company
Raba Kistner
Society of Independent Professional Earth Scientists
South Texas Geological Society
SWCA Environmental Consultants
Terracon
USGS Texas Water Science Center
Vortex Drilling
Whole Earth Provisions

Thanks,

Geary Schindel
Co-Chair
Texas Hydro Geo Workshop


















___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] 6th Texas Hydro Geo Workshop, Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas October 4-6. 2019

[grubbsi]

yes I fairly easily found what i ws looking for also got records for 2 old oil 
well drilled in early 80s that are listed as plugged.  doing soil test now

- Original Message -
From: "Geary Schindel" 
To: "texascavers" 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2019 3:22:06 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] 6th Texas Hydro Geo Workshop, Cave Without a Name, 
Boerne, Texas October 4-6. 2019

Folks,

This is a reminder that we have a few spots still left to attend the 6th Texas 
Hydro Geo Workshop at Cave Without a Name near Boerne, Texas. The dates are 
October 4 through 6 (Next Friday through Sunday). We have a number of new 
modules and sponsors for the event with folks registered from as far away as 
Kentucky and West Virginia. To register for the event, you can visit 
https://hydrogeoworkshop.org/.

We have more than 40 modules scheduled for the weekend. Those that are cave and 
karst related including:

Cave Surveying presented Marvin Miller and Tom Rogers
Knots presented by Garry White
How to us a GPS receiver by Grant Snyder and P.B. Snyder
Surface Geophysics (Natural Potential) by Mustafa Saribudak, Alf Hawkins, and 
Sebastian Taylor
Stream Gauging presented by Marcus Gary, Kevin Urbanczyk, and Justin Camp
Tracer Testing in Karst by Ralph Ewers, Peter Idstein, Roger Andrade, and Chris 
Russoniello
Cave Geology by Brian Smith
Karst Feature Evaluation using the TCEQ Forms by Phil Pearce and Ben Dilly
Stalagmites as Paleoclimate Archives with Chris Ray and Ligun Tian
Rock Identification with Richard Silver and Jesse Chadwick
Cave Biological Inventory with Benjamin Hutchins
Herpetological Field Survey Techniques with Jenny and tony Blair
Safety in the Vertical Environment - Christopher Franke, Steve Gutierrez, and 
Ross Webb
Field Trip to a Wild Cave with the Bexar Grotto members

A review of the program guide can be found at 
https://hydrogeoworkshop.org/docs/HGWProgram19.pdf

A special thanks to our sponsors including:
Cave Without a Name
AGI - Advanced Geosciences, Inc.
Association of Environmental and Engineering Geologists
Austin Geological Society
Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer Conservation District
Blair Wildlife Consulting
Cibolo Nature Center
Cow Creek Groundwater Conservation District
DNA Geosciences
Edwards Aquifer Authority
Estwing Mgt Co.
Eureka Waterprobes
Exlog Excellence Logging
Geo Cam Inc.
H.E.B.
Hicks & Company
Raba Kistner
Society of Independent Professional Earth Scientists
South Texas Geological Society
SWCA Environmental Consultants
Terracon
USGS Texas Water Science Center
Vortex Drilling
Whole Earth Provisions

Thanks,

Geary Schindel
Co-Chair
Texas Hydro Geo Workshop


















___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[Dwight Deal]

Well, cave or caving related?  Actually it is as it effects our environmental 
decisions and colors all of our actions on the way.  So I apologize and,  as I 
once read here, HIT DELETE NOW.


Sorry Mike, but many of your "facts" just are not correct. Please do your 
homework better.  This kind of repeating made-up false "facts" is why  our 
Pinocchio-in-chief gets away with telling falsehoods, and the Trolls get you to 
make very bad decisions every day, not just in elections.  You complain about 
David, but you should also get out of your own echo chamber.


I am clearly incensed, but it is really not my intent to start a flame war, so 
I will not be continuing this discussion. Please, "Just the Facts!"  Real 
facts.  Not Fake Facts.


DirtDoc


1) Recycling for the most part is a farce and costs more than making new. If it 
weren't for saving on raw materials and easing a slight load on landfills it 
would be a lark.


You started off well and are probably correct on this one. Cost/benefit studies 
need to be done on recycling now that China and the other Asian countries are 
not buying our recycled material. To have extra trucks and manpower to pick up 
recycled materials from homeowners and then have people sort it out on conveyor 
belts and then still having to drive the rejected material to the dump 
certainly seems to be an environmental negative.


Fuel efficient cars ease the pocket book and are better for the environment, 
but the question is this. Thanks to Trump we are for the first time in history 
not dependent on the middle east for fuel.


Trump had nothing to do with making us energy independent. This was due to the 
technical achievements that have been made on fracking and the large deposits 
of oil and gas embedded in rock that has been discovered, particularly in the 
Permian and Williston Basins.


Why is fuel so damn expensive then? I'll tell you why. It's because of greed.


I find the comments on the way oil is priced based on greed is ludicrous.


The domestic supply costs let's say $30.00 a barrel. After refining and other 
related costs our domestic fuel cost about 50% less than then the global supply 
at the pump. Why are our domestic suppliers charging us the global per barrel 
prices instead of their costs plus a decent profit. Greed.


It was Obama, not Trump, that signed new legislation to allow the export of oil 
from the USA. Oil from fracking is only profitable if oil sells for $50 a 
barrel or more. Any economist will tell you it’s based on supply and demand as 
it is a common commodity. The comments made were based on emotion and not 
facts. Anybody that believes that they are paying too much for gasoline should 
get an electric car or a bicycle, or travel outside the USA. I am not sure this 
is a "fact", but in my foreign travels I have found that gasoline prices in the 
USA are the cheapest unsubsidized gasoline I have had to buy.


Wind energy. I read recently that the cost of manufacturing and maintenance of 
wind turbine energy far exceeds the energy output of the turbine over its 
lifetime.


There are all sorts of "facts" out there to read.  Allow me to quote something 
some human has written, and I will be able to "prove" anything, including that 
the Earth is flat. The comments made on wind and solar power are not 
technically correct either. Wind and solar is the sustainable energy for now 
and in the future.


As for solar energy the carbon footprint for the manufacturing of panels is 
astronomical as is the production of batteries. Then there is the hazardous 
waste of the batteries to contend with. Again doesn't pass muster economically.


The comments made on wind and solar power are not technically correct either. 
Wind and solar is the sustainable energy for now and in the future.


So let's Split an Atom, and save a tree.  Think about it.___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[Mark Minton]

Warning: Chemistry lesson!



I can't imagine why you think burning ethanol creates sugar. The process of 
burning combines the carbon and hydrogen in organic molecules with oxygen to 
create carbon dioxide and water. If combustion is incomplete you might get 
residual carbon (soot), carbon monoxide and maybe some smaller organic 
compounds. Ethanol is C2H6O. Sugar is C12H22O11. Burning makes molecules 
smaller, not larger. There is no way you could produce sugar by burning ethanol.



Mark Minton
Organic Chemist (Retired)


On Tue, 24 Sep, 2019 at 4:28 PM, Michael Gibbons <6453...@gmail.com> wrote:
 

To: texascavers@texascavers.com

-

When you burn ethanol what is the by-product left in your engine? Why that 
would be sugar.  Why not just put a pound of sugar in your gas tank with each 
fill up. That's crazy no one would do that. Yes they would we are all forced to 
when using ethanol. ___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Honey Creek Strategy Meeting – October 7th

[Linda Palit]

May be able to with new date. 

Clumsily composed  with slow thumbs.  

> On Sep 25, 2019, at 9:35 AM, JG Mosier  wrote:
> 
> If anybody else is planning on attending this meeting it has been moved due 
> to a scheduling conflict.
> 
> See below.
> 
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Annalisa Peace 
> Date: Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 4:15 PM
> Subject: Honey Creek Strategy Meeting – October 7th
> To: 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Dear GEAA members and friends,
> 
> Due to a conflict with National Neighborhood Night Out on October 1st, the 
> meeting has been changed to Monday, October 7th. Same time, same place.
> 
> I have arranged for us to meet to discuss the next steps we must take to 
> contest the permit to discharge wastewater into Honey Creek. 
> 
> When: Monday, October 7, 2019
> 
> 6:00 p.m. to 7:30 p.m.
> 
> Where: Mammen Family Public Library, 131 Bulverde Crossing, Bulverde, TX 78163
> 
> The draft agenda will include:
> 
> Obtaining legal representation
> Fundraising for legal representation
> Organizing for the cause
> Create a Save Honey Creek committee?
> (Please send additional agenda items to me at annal...@aquiferalliance.org)
> 
> At this time, I have nothing to report except that we have a great start on 
> fundraising.  A generous anonymous donor has pledged to match all donations 
> of $100 or more – up to $15,000. (Yea!)  If we meet this pledge to match 
> funds, we will have $30,000 - a good beginning for a fighting chance. 
> 
> For those of us interested in protecting Honey Creek, it is time to get 
> organized.  As previously noted, the discharge point is upstream of Honey 
> Creek State Natural Area and Guadalupe State Park. There was so much great 
> testimony at the TCEQ public meeting objecting to direct discharge of sewage 
> effluent into Honey Creek due to the high potential of negative impacts to 
> this crystal clear water.  You can see some of the comments posted under 
> Honey Creek on GEAA's waste water page.  And, you can like our Save Honey 
> Creek FaceBook page to check for updates and add to the discussion.
> 
> I apologize for the inconvenience and I look forward to seeing all of you on 
> October 7th.
> 
> Annalisa Peace
> 
> Executive Director
> Greater Edwards Aquifer Alliance
> 
> You can donate to GEAA on line or mail a check to PO Box 15618, San Antonio, 
> Texas 78212
> 
> You can always keep up with interesting water news on GEAA's Face Book page
> 
>  
> To learn more click here
>  
> Manage Your Subscription
> This message was sent to jgmosier1...@gmail.com from 
> annal...@aquiferalliance.org
> 
> Annalisa Peace
> Greater Edwards Aquifer Alliance
> 1809 Blanco Road
> San Antonio, Tx 78212
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[bmorgan994]

David #2: Remember that if a chicken can lay an egg it can lay you!

 

Now on to a movie review: 

 

“Time Trap”, now available on Netflix, features everything a caver could 
possibly ask for. The hapless spunkalunkers include the necessary two hot 
chicks in tank tops. They are inexplicably well equipped with descending gear 
but no ascending gear. Should have thought of that! But no prob cuz they have 
an endless supply of eternal glow sticks, so many that they toss them around 
like drug deranged teenagers at an all night rave. Whee! 

 

Far above the light from the entrance flickers, not because they are in a 
disco, but because in the cave time passes more quickly than on the surface. 
All cavers know that. As a result, a year underground passes in approximately 
five seconds! Since they have no ascending gear plucky little Greta Thunberg 
free climbs the pit to discover that climate change has eaten her future, the 
air is bad and all the ropes have rotted! So she climbs back down to discover 
that her little brother “Furby” has been dead for centuries. 

 

All cavers know that when you are stuck at the bottom of an entrance drop the 
best thing to do is to go further back into the cave, so they do. It was all a 
mistake because there they meet a lost tribe of beardless Pleistocene cave men 
who closely resemble quadrupedal Negroes. The cave men attack the spunkalunkers 
but are diverted when they in turn are attacked by a giant space alien from the 
future. Thus, the spunkalunkers escape.

 

Back at the bottom of the entrance pit plucky little Greta climbs up again to 
discover that the top of the pit where the air used to be is now the bottom of 
the ocean. She makes the mistake of sticking her hand up into the water and is 
immediately seized by an aqua monster and disappears upwards. Despite broken 
bones the others climb the 80 foot drop to rescue her, whereupon they too are 
seized by the unseen monster. 

 

All seems lost until all of  the explorers, including those who were previously 
dead, pop up out of the water in a hot tub (Yea!) inside of a space ship taking 
what remains of humanity to Mars for a new start. All others including Donald 
Trump are left behind to perish on the dying planet, so the movie has a happy 
ending!

 

Think I’m making this up? I double dog dare you to watch the movie! But I would 
recommend the ingestion of drugs and/or alcohol first.

 

SW

 

From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Michael 
Gibbons
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:25 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

 

Recycling for the most part is a farce and cost more than making new. If it 
weren't for saving on raw materials and easing a slight load on land fills it 
would be a lark.

Fuel efficient cars ease the pocket book and are better for the environment, 
but the question is this. Thanks to Trump we are for the first time in history 
not dependent on the middle east for fuel. Why is fuel so damn expensive then? 
I'll tell you why. It's because of greed. The domestic supply costs let's say 
$30.00 a barrel. After refining and other related costs our domestic fuel cost 
about 50% less than then the global supply at the pump. Why are our domestic 
suppliers charging us the global per barrel prices instead of their costs plus 
a decent profit. Greed.

Wind energy. I read recently that the cost of manufacturing and maintenance of 
wind turbine energy far exceeds the energy output of the turbine over its 
lifetime.

As for solar energy the carbon footprint for the manufacturing of panels is 
astronomical as is the production of batteries. Then there is the hazardous 
waste of the batteries to contend with. Again doesn't pass muster economically.

Then there is the ethanol fiasco. Production of ethanol is 4 times the price of 
fossil fuel and it ruins the efficiency and longevity of the motors that use 
it. When you burn ethanol what is the by-product left in your engine? Why that 
would be sugar.  Why not just put a pound of sugar in your gas tank with each 
fill up. That's crazy no one would do that. Yes they would we are all forced to 
when using ethanol.

As for the attorneys that offer a defense to criminals. Our system guarantees a 
right to trial and a defense. Someone has to mount the defense and the folks 
that do should give their best effort for each case just as a prosecutor 
should. So that's an asinine correlation to draw.

Being coerced into falsifying time sheets is a cop out and a different name for 
low moral and ethical fortitude. That is the same cop out as when one declares 
that defense attorneys shouldn't do there job or at least shouldn't be allowed 
to mount a bench as judge after the despicable act of defending a criminal to 
ones dead level best.

On to the population of this planet. What is there to say about this. It is a 
factor of basic math. Sustianance grows on an arithmetic ratio and population 
grows

Re: [Texascavers] Take me on a caving-roadtrip

[Clark Giles]

That truck looks at least half as good as a Toyota!  AwwwSome!!!


On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 6:34 PM David  wrote:

> I think this photo needs that slogan on it.
>
>
> https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2019/09/1862/1048/bison5.jpg?ve=1=1
>
> 2019 Chevrolet ZR2 "Bison Edition" ( $ 5,000 of aftermarket add-ons with
> factory warranty )
>
> D.L.
>
> Hit Delete Button now please
>
>
> Cavepearl's Quinceanera is just 100 hours away.I almost would have
> missed it,
> as I had to refrain myself today ( bite my lip ) to keep from
> getting thrown in the pokey by the secret Gestapo Division of The Texas
> Highway Patrol.I need to
> close my subpoena delivery business tonight, and go find a remote serene
> waterfall to sit under.  I
> have been post-poning that urgent need for close to 20 years, but my
> work-task have
> gotten worse, and I have become far grumpier.
>
> On a different note,
>
> I saw the movie, "Ad Astra," It reminded me of the movie about the guy
> that
> fell in love with the female-voice of his home-entertainment system, or
> any other movie
> where the protagonist talks to themselves the whole movie.  The
> science in this new movie,
> was about as close to retarded as you could get, so leave your brain at
> home and just enjoy the
> idea that all the b.s. that goes on in the deep-state of gov't and between
> gov'ts
> will occur on Mars, but even worse.
>
> Sometime back in the late 70s on Saturday
> morning, I think, was a show aimed at 5 year olds featuring the inside of
> a space-ship and some British astronauts.
> It was super corny.   "Ad Astra," seemed to have stolen a lot from that
> show.
> I could not find it on YouTube. This might be it:
>
> https://youtu.be/6Hrwut2dV0k
>
> These three below are similar to what I think I am remembering, but the one
> I remember was for toddlers, pre-dating the Teletubbies.
>
> https://youtu.be/EpF6o2-nx4I
>
> https://youtu.be/E_q4oKbCgbQ
>
> https://youtu.be/8mWDWYg5j3E
>
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[Michael Gibbons]

Recycling for the most part is a farce and cost more than making new. If it
weren't for saving on raw materials and easing a slight load on land fills
it would be a lark.
Fuel efficient cars ease the pocket book and are better for the
environment, but the question is this. Thanks to Trump we are for the first
time in history not dependent on the middle east for fuel. Why is fuel so
damn expensive then? I'll tell you why. It's because of greed. The domestic
supply costs let's say $30.00 a barrel. After refining and other related
costs our domestic fuel cost about 50% less than then the global supply at
the pump. Why are our domestic suppliers charging us the global per barrel
prices instead of their costs plus a decent profit. Greed.
Wind energy. I read recently that the cost of manufacturing and maintenance
of wind turbine energy far exceeds the energy output of the turbine over
its lifetime.
As for solar energy the carbon footprint for the manufacturing of panels is
astronomical as is the production of batteries. Then there is the hazardous
waste of the batteries to contend with. Again doesn't pass muster
economically.
Then there is the ethanol fiasco. Production of ethanol is 4 times the
price of fossil fuel and it ruins the efficiency and longevity of the
motors that use it. When you burn ethanol what is the by-product left in
your engine? Why that would be sugar.  Why not just put a pound of sugar in
your gas tank with each fill up. That's crazy no one would do that. Yes
they would we are all forced to when using ethanol.
As for the attorneys that offer a defense to criminals. Our system
guarantees a right to trial and a defense. Someone has to mount the defense
and the folks that do should give their best effort for each case just as a
prosecutor should. So that's an asinine correlation to draw.
Being coerced into falsifying time sheets is a cop out and a different name
for low moral and ethical fortitude. That is the same cop out as when one
declares that defense attorneys shouldn't do there job or at least
shouldn't be allowed to mount a bench as judge after the despicable act of
defending a criminal to ones dead level best.
On to the population of this planet. What is there to say about this. It is
a factor of basic math. Sustianance grows on an arithmetic ratio and
population grows on a geometric ratio. Never with twain meet on a gant
chart. That's what planned parenthood was supposed to take on. Realistic
affordability for couples wanting to procreate and the pros and cons of
children vs ones capability to provide for them.
Instead they morphed into a for profit baby killing machine because its
profitable and informing the would be parents of responsible procreation is
not.
As for the problem of needing to share ones space. Be more diligent in
selection of a flatmate who more closely meets the criteria you wish to
have in one. Perhaps the criteria was ill concieved. Perhaps the urgency to
cover cost overruns where the driving force in a hasty decision to generate
income rather than find a compatible candidate. That answer is to not
operate from an undercollaterialized position. Thoughtfully create a
criteria to be met prior to the search for a roommate and stick to the
criteria. If urgency to cover bills is the driving force than a person is
already living beyond their means and re-evaluating ones spending habits
would add clarity to the dilemma as would scrutinizing the means by which
one earns a living.
For the most part I enjoy your posts and the innocent manner in which you
view the world. But you know its dog eat dog out there. And no one is
responsible for the decisions made in your life but you. Hasty decsions and
those made from a position of disadvantage will like always add to ones
misery rather than alleviate any.
I run my whole rodeo on $1200.00 a month. I have a three bedroom house, a
vehicle and I manage everything I need and some of what I want. I have
simple needs with no fluff or extravagance. I repair everything that fails
myself. I dont eat out nor do it engage women that need maintaince.  I shop
everything and vehemently pursue any expenditure that is not what I agreed
it would be. I'll chase $5.00 in a heart beat if an online vendor or other
unscrupulous company tries to slicker fuck me. And I have 3nough left over
to pursue a couple of hobbies.
The answer my freind is the manner in which you conduct your affairs. You
need to increase the influx of capital or re-evaluate the expenditures or
both. But it's your chicken, we can hold it down for you but you've got to
fuck it.


On Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 8:57 PM David  wrote:

> We are all conservationist here to some extent, and should be able to
> discuss
> conservation without getting our knickers in a wad, or using the p-word.
>
> Today in the world news, was a young passionate girl giving an official
> speech of
> some sort to the United Nations, I assume which was on behalf of her
> generation.
>
> Some of you may have seen 

Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[Barb]

David, this your first post that has made me really angry. That girl was 
courageous. You simply do not have facts on your side for most of your rant.

Barb Coons

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:56 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> We are all conservationist here to some extent, and should be able to discuss
> conservation without getting our knickers in a wad, or using the p-word.
> 
> Today in the world news, was a young passionate girl giving an official 
> speech of
> some sort to the United Nations, I assume which was on behalf of her 
> generation.
> 
> Some of you may have seen parts of it or all of it.
> 
> Our conservation efforts are likely better in 2019 than what was going on in 
> 1943. 
> 
> As a self-employed person, I struggle to even recycle the products that I use 
> that
> are recyclable. I made numerous efforts to drive a fuel-efficient car, 
> for most of
> my adult life.  My V8 Sequoia is now a necessity to survive, although, in 
> hindsight it
> was a waste to get the 4x4 version. 
> 
> There is no way on Earth, I could use public transportation in my daily 
> routine.I wasted
> thousands of dollars trying.
> 
> As for wind-energy, there is little of that in southeast Texas, and windmills 
> kill birds and bats,
> and are unsightly on the landscape. Solar-farms are highly sensitive to 
> sand-storms and the
> areas with the greatest sun-potential have sand-storms.  
> 
> Population growth is a topic nobody seems to want to touch.We have too 
> many humans on
> Earth - especially humans who are not in any way trying to make life better 
> for their neighbor.
> ( I do lots of charity work ).My job is a charity job in a sense.
> 
> We have people in our society that proudly drive their trucks intentionally 
> spewing fumes into the
> air - as if it is a counter-statement. We have vandals who damage natural 
> places, out of boredom
> and pure nefarious intentions.
> 
> What this young activist does not understand is how capitalism works and the 
> private sector and
> the public sector, but more importantly how people with low morals end up in 
> high places, like being
> a judge in a court-room after having spent 10 years helping low-life 
> criminals get through the revolving-door
> quicker.   I am in the private sector and I have to deal with b.s. up to 
> my waist.   Why
> just today, a crooked gov't official caused me to waste about $ 10 in gas, 
> out of my own pocket.This 
> young lady has never had to work, and see the b.s. that goes on. At many 
> places that I had worked in 
> previous years, I was coerced
> into forging a time-sheet, over-charging the rich customers to under-charge 
> the poor-ones, or maybe even
> vice-versa.
> 
> We do need to plant more trees, but it will be years before those trees grow 
> to replace the ones that got
> cut down. It is likely those new trees would be cut down too someday, so 
> what is the point ?Nearly
> every tree-planting effort in Houston has been a disaster.The last big 
> drought a few years ago, killed
> most of them.
> 
> Elon Musk is selling Teslas as fast as he can, but this young lady does not 
> understand the economics behind
> all that. Tesla is a crappy choice of a car in southeast Texas. 
> People in southeast Texas need vehicles that 
> are 4 feet off the ground, and are bullet-resistant.
> 
> There was a big push for ethanol vehicles a few years ago.That program 
> was a disaster in Houston area. 
> Millions of buyers here over-payed for the ethanol-compatible cars ( 
> flex-fuel ), only to find out that it was a
> pain in the ***. Cheaper fuel and more fuel stations and larger 
> fuel-tanks in the vehicles was needed.
> 
> Light-Rail in Houston has been a disaster and there is talk of ripping it out 
> and putting in a dedicated bus lane
> in the same spot. I was in favor of light-rail until I saw how ludicrous 
> the management of the projects were,
> and the hurt it did to the businesses along the route.
> 
> The UN did not "steal this girls dreams." "The fairy-tales of business 
> greed," is what the have-nots always have
> said during every revolution, as they over-throw the rich and powerful.   
> It is always ironic when a poor person
> suddenly becomes rich, how they don't want to pay taxes, and buy Learjets, 
> and yachts and have wild-parties.
> 
> I am sharing a 2-bedroom apartment with a strange introvert stranger. 
> This effort is due to economic stress, but I have
> always wanted to share my living space with someone who was compatible. I 
> do not need a kitchen, nor
> bath, nor living room, nor dining room all to myself.But the practicality 
> of it is not feasible. I need a place
> where my teenage daughter can visit, and my girlfriend and other friends and 
> relatives. So I got to figure out
> some kind of plan to escape from this situation. 
> 
> 
> While I am ranting incoherently,   
> 
> One 

Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[Charles Loving]

yep

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 9:04 AM John Brooks 
wrote:

> Good grief David. I suspect this young lady is more aware of the world
> than you give her credit for - just because Texans love to live in their
> cars in trucks - that’s NOT how the rest of the world works or live. In
> fact many cities in the USA are now transitioning to be multi-modal
> cities.you live in the worst of the worst of suburban
> environmentssome would argue that suburban Houstonians are the most
> clueless within the known universethe rest of us are learning to leave
> our cars at home and enjoy life without a 4 ton boat anchor dragging us.
>
> I applaud this young lady for stepping forward and telling us the way it
> isour lifestyle is poisoning the planet for her generation and
> oursand it is time to stop it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:56 PM, David  wrote:
> >
> > We are all conservationist here to some extent, and should be able to
> discuss
> > conservation without getting our knickers in a wad, or using the p-word.
> >
> > Today in the world news, was a young passionate girl giving an official
> speech of
> > some sort to the United Nations, I assume which was on behalf of her
> generation.
> >
> > Some of you may have seen parts of it or all of it.
> >
> > Our conservation efforts are likely better in 2019 than what was going
> on in 1943.
> >
> > As a self-employed person, I struggle to even recycle the products that
> I use that
> > are recyclable. I made numerous efforts to drive a fuel-efficient
> car, for most of
> > my adult life.  My V8 Sequoia is now a necessity to survive,
> although, in hindsight it
> > was a waste to get the 4x4 version.
> >
> > There is no way on Earth, I could use public transportation in my daily
> routine.I wasted
> > thousands of dollars trying.
> >
> > As for wind-energy, there is little of that in southeast Texas, and
> windmills kill birds and bats,
> > and are unsightly on the landscape. Solar-farms are highly sensitive
> to sand-storms and the
> > areas with the greatest sun-potential have sand-storms.
> >
> > Population growth is a topic nobody seems to want to touch.We have
> too many humans on
> > Earth - especially humans who are not in any way trying to make life
> better for their neighbor.
> > ( I do lots of charity work ).My job is a charity job in a sense.
> >
> > We have people in our society that proudly drive their trucks
> intentionally spewing fumes into the
> > air - as if it is a counter-statement. We have vandals who damage
> natural places, out of boredom
> > and pure nefarious intentions.
> >
> > What this young activist does not understand is how capitalism works and
> the private sector and
> > the public sector, but more importantly how people with low morals end
> up in high places, like being
> > a judge in a court-room after having spent 10 years helping low-life
> criminals get through the revolving-door
> > quicker.   I am in the private sector and I have to deal with b.s.
> up to my waist.   Why
> > just today, a crooked gov't official caused me to waste about $ 10 in
> gas, out of my own pocket.This
> > young lady has never had to work, and see the b.s. that goes on. At
> many places that I had worked in
> > previous years, I was coerced
> > into forging a time-sheet, over-charging the rich customers to
> under-charge the poor-ones, or maybe even
> > vice-versa.
> >
> > We do need to plant more trees, but it will be years before those trees
> grow to replace the ones that got
> > cut down. It is likely those new trees would be cut down too
> someday, so what is the point ?Nearly
> > every tree-planting effort in Houston has been a disaster.The last
> big drought a few years ago, killed
> > most of them.
> >
> > Elon Musk is selling Teslas as fast as he can, but this young lady does
> not understand the economics behind
> > all that. Tesla is a crappy choice of a car in southeast Texas.
>  People in southeast Texas need vehicles that
> > are 4 feet off the ground, and are bullet-resistant.
> >
> > There was a big push for ethanol vehicles a few years ago.That
> program was a disaster in Houston area.
> > Millions of buyers here over-payed for the ethanol-compatible cars (
> flex-fuel ), only to find out that it was a
> > pain in the ***. Cheaper fuel and more fuel stations and larger
> fuel-tanks in the vehicles was needed.
> >
> > Light-Rail in Houston has been a disaster and there is talk of ripping
> it out and putting in a dedicated bus lane
> > in the same spot. I was in favor of light-rail until I saw how
> ludicrous the management of the projects were,
> > and the hurt it did to the businesses along the route.
> >
> > The UN did not "steal this girls dreams." "The fairy-tales of
> business greed," is what the have-nots always have
> > said during every revolution, as they over-throw the rich and powerful.
>  It is always ironic when 

Re: [Texascavers] sort of conservation related

[John Brooks]

Good grief David. I suspect this young lady is more aware of the world than you 
give her credit for - just because Texans love to live in their cars in trucks 
- that’s NOT how the rest of the world works or live. In fact many cities in 
the USA are now transitioning to be multi-modal cities.you live in the 
worst of the worst of suburban environmentssome would argue that suburban 
Houstonians are the most clueless within the known universethe rest of us 
are learning to leave our cars at home and enjoy life without a 4 ton boat 
anchor dragging us.

I applaud this young lady for stepping forward and telling us the way it 
isour lifestyle is poisoning the planet for her generation and oursand 
it is time to stop it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 23, 2019, at 8:56 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> We are all conservationist here to some extent, and should be able to discuss
> conservation without getting our knickers in a wad, or using the p-word.
> 
> Today in the world news, was a young passionate girl giving an official 
> speech of
> some sort to the United Nations, I assume which was on behalf of her 
> generation.
> 
> Some of you may have seen parts of it or all of it.
> 
> Our conservation efforts are likely better in 2019 than what was going on in 
> 1943. 
> 
> As a self-employed person, I struggle to even recycle the products that I use 
> that
> are recyclable. I made numerous efforts to drive a fuel-efficient car, 
> for most of
> my adult life.  My V8 Sequoia is now a necessity to survive, although, in 
> hindsight it
> was a waste to get the 4x4 version. 
> 
> There is no way on Earth, I could use public transportation in my daily 
> routine.I wasted
> thousands of dollars trying.
> 
> As for wind-energy, there is little of that in southeast Texas, and windmills 
> kill birds and bats,
> and are unsightly on the landscape. Solar-farms are highly sensitive to 
> sand-storms and the
> areas with the greatest sun-potential have sand-storms.  
> 
> Population growth is a topic nobody seems to want to touch.We have too 
> many humans on
> Earth - especially humans who are not in any way trying to make life better 
> for their neighbor.
> ( I do lots of charity work ).My job is a charity job in a sense.
> 
> We have people in our society that proudly drive their trucks intentionally 
> spewing fumes into the
> air - as if it is a counter-statement. We have vandals who damage natural 
> places, out of boredom
> and pure nefarious intentions.
> 
> What this young activist does not understand is how capitalism works and the 
> private sector and
> the public sector, but more importantly how people with low morals end up in 
> high places, like being
> a judge in a court-room after having spent 10 years helping low-life 
> criminals get through the revolving-door
> quicker.   I am in the private sector and I have to deal with b.s. up to 
> my waist.   Why
> just today, a crooked gov't official caused me to waste about $ 10 in gas, 
> out of my own pocket.This 
> young lady has never had to work, and see the b.s. that goes on. At many 
> places that I had worked in 
> previous years, I was coerced
> into forging a time-sheet, over-charging the rich customers to under-charge 
> the poor-ones, or maybe even
> vice-versa.
> 
> We do need to plant more trees, but it will be years before those trees grow 
> to replace the ones that got
> cut down. It is likely those new trees would be cut down too someday, so 
> what is the point ?Nearly
> every tree-planting effort in Houston has been a disaster.The last big 
> drought a few years ago, killed
> most of them.
> 
> Elon Musk is selling Teslas as fast as he can, but this young lady does not 
> understand the economics behind
> all that. Tesla is a crappy choice of a car in southeast Texas. 
> People in southeast Texas need vehicles that 
> are 4 feet off the ground, and are bullet-resistant.
> 
> There was a big push for ethanol vehicles a few years ago.That program 
> was a disaster in Houston area. 
> Millions of buyers here over-payed for the ethanol-compatible cars ( 
> flex-fuel ), only to find out that it was a
> pain in the ***. Cheaper fuel and more fuel stations and larger 
> fuel-tanks in the vehicles was needed.
> 
> Light-Rail in Houston has been a disaster and there is talk of ripping it out 
> and putting in a dedicated bus lane
> in the same spot. I was in favor of light-rail until I saw how ludicrous 
> the management of the projects were,
> and the hurt it did to the businesses along the route.
> 
> The UN did not "steal this girls dreams." "The fairy-tales of business 
> greed," is what the have-nots always have
> said during every revolution, as they over-throw the rich and powerful.   
> It is always ironic when a poor person
> suddenly becomes rich, how they don't want to pay taxes, and buy Learjets, 
> and yachts and have wild-parties.
> 
> I am 

Re: [Texascavers] Texascavers Digest, Vol 63, Issue 22

[Cathy Winfrey]

Thanks, Nico.
That was illuminating.


On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 9:42 PM Nico Hauwert  wrote:

> Generating electricity from natural underground
>
> Dr. Mustafa Saribudak of Austin measured anomalies in electrical potential
> over both water-filled and air-filled caves. The method he calls natural
> potential basically uses a sensitive volt meter. He has published (and I
> have unpublished works) a number of surveys, including Barton Springs,
> Flint Ridge Cave, McNeil High School area caves, Houston area faults and
> others. I hypothesize that ions flowing in water create electrical
> potential, and the air filled ones not so sure but perhaps wind borne gases
> like CO2, ions, periodic flood flows or residual from long ago.
> Nico Hauwert, Ph.D.
> 2403 Bahama Road
> Austin, Texas 78733
> 01-512-695-4597
> nmhauw...@gmail.com
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 11:00 AM 
> wrote:
>
>> Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to
>> texascavers@texascavers.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Texascavers digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers (William R. Elliott)
>>2. Ralph Doerzbacher **Jr.** (David)
>>3. honoring cavers who passed (David)
>>4. Generating electricity from natural underground   resources (David)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 15:34:34 -0500
>> From: "William R. Elliott" 
>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>> Subject: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers
>> Message-ID:
>> > 1orpvobdyzxeb05yqgn...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> I have updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers. Much more information
>> now on departed cavers who explored caves in Texas and Mexico. See
>> http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm
>>
>> More updates will come later, but I now have detailed information back to
>> 2010 and a few beyond.
>>
>> Cavers send me more information, but we still have a few lost cavers. We
>> need basic info on these folks, at least the year of death might help:
>>
>> Chip Carney, geologist, died in Alaska.
>>
>> Jonathan Davis, geologist, died in motorcycle accident in the late 1980s.
>> He
>> was the son of E Mott Davis,  professor of anthropology at UT.
>>
>> Scott Lilly, young CVS caver, died in motorcycle accident in the 1970s.
>>
>> George Sevra, CVS caver, lost track of him.
>>
>> If you suggest someone, please help by trying to research that person
>> through online searches. Paul and Elizabeth Duncan found information on
>> Bill Mayne, who died in a cave diving accident in Florida in 1993, by
>> searching for him on Ancestry.com. I was then able to find the accident
>> report in *American Caving Accidents. *
>>
>>
>> *William R. (Bill) Elliott*
>>
>> *speodes...@gmail.com *
>>
>> 573-291-5093 cell
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20190921/4976f332/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 22:45:33 -0500
>> From: David 
>> To: CaveTex 
>> Subject: [Texascavers] Ralph Doerzbacher **Jr.**
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> caecwswoj-utc8ujnrik4pvqjdn5c3fmnawcpcga+dwxvojs...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> This email is to honor
>>
>> Mr. Ralph Doerzbacher Jr.
>>
>> ( Major Ralph E. Doerzbacher, Jr., USAF-retired )
>>
>> of Saint Paris, Ohio passed away, September 16, 2019.
>>
>> Born on April 6, 1935 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
>>
>> Graduated of the University of Pittsburgh with a B.S. in Physics ( ~ 1957
>> ).
>>
>> Major Doerzbacher served his country in the USAF for 23 years. He then
>> worked for the Dept. of Defense as an engineer for 3 years.
>>
>> He enjoyed caving, the Ohio Nature Conservatory, Boy Scouts and was a
>> supporter of Cedar Bog in Champaign County,
>> and a member of the National Speleological Society.
>>
>>
>> https://cache.legacy.net/legacy/images/cobrands/urbanacitizen/photos/123565047_web_doerzbacher-ralph_20190917.jpg
>>
>> I was going to try to post more info, but there may be another Ralph
>> Doerzbacher, so I do not want to post anything
>> in error.
>>
>> Ref.:
>>
>>
>> https://books.google.com/books?id=v7E_DwAAQBAJ=PA87=PA87=ralph+doerzbacher=bl=EBYamSGRjs=ACfU3U3PcTuaTu1ko-C9xgsNnGpHCTF9Pg=en=X=2ahUKEwiXqP20wOPkAhUQMawKHVEuAqs4ChDoATAAegQICRAB#v=onepage=ralph%20doerzbacher=false
>> -- next part 

Re: [Texascavers] Texascavers Digest, Vol 63, Issue 22

[Nico Hauwert]

 Generating electricity from natural underground

Dr. Mustafa Saribudak of Austin measured anomalies in electrical potential
over both water-filled and air-filled caves. The method he calls natural
potential basically uses a sensitive volt meter. He has published (and I
have unpublished works) a number of surveys, including Barton Springs,
Flint Ridge Cave, McNeil High School area caves, Houston area faults and
others. I hypothesize that ions flowing in water create electrical
potential, and the air filled ones not so sure but perhaps wind borne gases
like CO2, ions, periodic flood flows or residual from long ago.
Nico Hauwert, Ph.D.
2403 Bahama Road
Austin, Texas 78733
01-512-695-4597
nmhauw...@gmail.com

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 11:00 AM 
wrote:

> Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to
> texascavers@texascavers.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Texascavers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers (William R. Elliott)
>2. Ralph Doerzbacher **Jr.** (David)
>3. honoring cavers who passed (David)
>4. Generating electricity from natural underground   resources (David)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 15:34:34 -0500
> From: "William R. Elliott" 
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: [Texascavers] Updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers
> Message-ID:
>  1orpvobdyzxeb05yqgn...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear friends,
>
> I have updated The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers. Much more information
> now on departed cavers who explored caves in Texas and Mexico. See
> http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm
>
> More updates will come later, but I now have detailed information back to
> 2010 and a few beyond.
>
> Cavers send me more information, but we still have a few lost cavers. We
> need basic info on these folks, at least the year of death might help:
>
> Chip Carney, geologist, died in Alaska.
>
> Jonathan Davis, geologist, died in motorcycle accident in the late 1980s.
> He
> was the son of E Mott Davis,  professor of anthropology at UT.
>
> Scott Lilly, young CVS caver, died in motorcycle accident in the 1970s.
>
> George Sevra, CVS caver, lost track of him.
>
> If you suggest someone, please help by trying to research that person
> through online searches. Paul and Elizabeth Duncan found information on
> Bill Mayne, who died in a cave diving accident in Florida in 1993, by
> searching for him on Ancestry.com. I was then able to find the accident
> report in *American Caving Accidents. *
>
>
> *William R. (Bill) Elliott*
>
> *speodes...@gmail.com *
>
> 573-291-5093 cell
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20190921/4976f332/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 22:45:33 -0500
> From: David 
> To: CaveTex 
> Subject: [Texascavers] Ralph Doerzbacher **Jr.**
> Message-ID:
> <
> caecwswoj-utc8ujnrik4pvqjdn5c3fmnawcpcga+dwxvojs...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> This email is to honor
>
> Mr. Ralph Doerzbacher Jr.
>
> ( Major Ralph E. Doerzbacher, Jr., USAF-retired )
>
> of Saint Paris, Ohio passed away, September 16, 2019.
>
> Born on April 6, 1935 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
>
> Graduated of the University of Pittsburgh with a B.S. in Physics ( ~ 1957
> ).
>
> Major Doerzbacher served his country in the USAF for 23 years. He then
> worked for the Dept. of Defense as an engineer for 3 years.
>
> He enjoyed caving, the Ohio Nature Conservatory, Boy Scouts and was a
> supporter of Cedar Bog in Champaign County,
> and a member of the National Speleological Society.
>
>
> https://cache.legacy.net/legacy/images/cobrands/urbanacitizen/photos/123565047_web_doerzbacher-ralph_20190917.jpg
>
> I was going to try to post more info, but there may be another Ralph
> Doerzbacher, so I do not want to post anything
> in error.
>
> Ref.:
>
>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=v7E_DwAAQBAJ=PA87=PA87=ralph+doerzbacher=bl=EBYamSGRjs=ACfU3U3PcTuaTu1ko-C9xgsNnGpHCTF9Pg=en=X=2ahUKEwiXqP20wOPkAhUQMawKHVEuAqs4ChDoATAAegQICRAB#v=onepage=ralph%20doerzbacher=false
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20190921/feb4edad/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 23:38:45 

Re: [Texascavers] Nature related

[Buford Pruitt]

Joni Mitchell wrote "Paved Paradise"

*"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all."* - Helen Keller

Buford Pruitt, Jr
2418 Cherrywood Ln
Pisgah Forest, NC 28768
Mobile 828-450-5492


On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 8:04 PM David  wrote:

> I am passing through the town of Brenham - a town that once had a scenic
> drive around the edge of it ( Hwy.  290 ).
>
> One of the small scenic hills has been carved away, to make room for a
> 20-acre strip shopping center - featuring a nail salon, tailor, tobacco
> store, tattoo parlor, pizza express, Chinese take-out, etc.  It looks like
> it will have a 5 acre concrete parking lot.
>
> Someone should really right a song about this tragedy.
>
> D.L.
>
>
> My Sequoia transmission now has passed 278,000 miles.   I sense it is the
> next big "unexpected" setback to affect me, as I feel the reverse gear
> might not be engaging sometimes.
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Sort of Houston related

[Jim Kennedy]

On Sep 19, 2019, at 5:29 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> 
> All the caving discussions are clearly on Facebook now. 


That’s because you killed CaveTex.

Crash
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] weird things in caves

[David]

In the town of Hidalgo Mexico, there is a typical old Catholic church, but
the wall behind the pulpit is a rock-shelter.

The entrance had an ugly galvanized chain-link fence ( or did back in the
mid-90s.)

Right behind the pulpit is a rock formation resembling a 24 inch long rock
projecting outward and downward about 6 feet off the ground.

It has been touched by a million tourist in hopes of receiving an instant
miracle from their diety.

A very vague rumor is that many decades or centuries ago, the formation was
once shaped like a baby or maybe some divine image like the ones that
appear on toast sometimes..

Cavers used to go in the cave, but not sure if there is a good map.   Local
spelunkers and tourist likely go beyond the fence.

I had some really really good food there near the food market, sometime
around 1996.


If there were a company that constructed cave gates, then a unique esthetic
barrier could be built here.   I doubt though, that the congregants would
want to encourage a smelly bat roost nor a potential bat attack.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Chorrito

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Chorrito

I do not remember there being a carving of The VoG on the formation, nor a
man-made tunnel into the cave.

Nearly all caves in Mexico with public access have a memorial to The VoG,
which sometimes might include a small assortment of abandoned
walking-sticks or crutches.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TCR registration call for volunteers!

[Heather Tucek]

Sorry, for clarification: this is for Texas Caver's Reunion, October 11-13,
2019.
Registration is open from 8pm-10pm Friday, October 11, and 9am-6pm
Saturday, October 12.

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 10:07, Heather Tucek  wrote:

> Greetings all! Here's is the annual email you always seem to hate seeing
> from me, but here we go:
>
> I'm looking for a few people to help out at the registration desk at TCR
> this year. I've already got a couple of people, but I'm hoping to get just
> a few more. If you are interested in helping, please email me off-list, and
> I can let you know what shifts we have still unclaimed, and get you signed
> up!
>
> *If you are planning on running for TSA Secretary, it's actually really
> important this year for you to volunteer at least one shift,* so I can
> show you how everything works, since starting in January, the job of
> registration person (for both TCR and for TSA Convention) is planned to
> shifted to be the TSA Secretary's responsibility. This will be my last time
> as registration person, and I need to train anyone who is hoping to take
> over the Secretary's position.
>
> *Registration this year is currently planned for:*
> *8pm-10pm on Friday*
> *9am-6pm Saturday*
> (*PLEASE come and register with us as soon as you get there (*this is
> extra important, since there is a site release form you need to sign!)*,
> before setting up your camp! The sooner we can get everyone signed in, the
> more fun the people having to run the table get to have! We really don't
> like having to be last in the dinner line because people come get us after
> we close up and demand us to pull everything out again even though they've
> already been there all weekend. PLEASE don't be that person this year!!*)
>
>
> Let me know if you'd like to help! No hate mail this year please, my
> emotions can't take it!
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -Heather Tucek
> trog...@cavechat.org
>
>
>
> --
> *Go find out!*
> -Heather Tuček
> TSA Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> members...@cavetexas.org
>
>

-- 
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
members...@cavetexas.org
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TCR registration call for volunteers!

[Diana Tomchick]

Hey Heather,

It would be good to list the dates for TCR along with this message.

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
UT Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

On Sep 17, 2019, at 10:07 AM, Heather Tucek 
mailto:trog...@cavechat.org>> wrote:

Greetings all! Here's is the annual email you always seem to hate seeing from 
me, but here we go:

I'm looking for a few people to help out at the registration desk at TCR this 
year. I've already got a couple of people, but I'm hoping to get just a few 
more. If you are interested in helping, please email me off-list, and I can let 
you know what shifts we have still unclaimed, and get you signed up!

If you are planning on running for TSA Secretary, it's actually really 
important this year for you to volunteer at least one shift, so I can show you 
how everything works, since starting in January, the job of registration person 
(for both TCR and for TSA Convention) is planned to shifted to be the TSA 
Secretary's responsibility. This will be my last time as registration person, 
and I need to train anyone who is hoping to take over the Secretary's position.

Registration this year is currently planned for:
8pm-10pm on Friday
9am-6pm Saturday
(PLEASE come and register with us as soon as you get there (this is extra 
important, since there is a site release form you need to sign!), before 
setting up your camp! The sooner we can get everyone signed in, the more fun 
the people having to run the table get to have! We really don't like having to 
be last in the dinner line because people come get us after we close up and 
demand us to pull everything out again even though they've already been there 
all weekend. PLEASE don't be that person this year!!)


Let me know if you'd like to help! No hate mail this year please, my emotions 
can't take it!
Thanks in advance!

-Heather Tucek
trog...@cavechat.org



--
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
members...@cavetexas.org

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers




UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Sand caves on Mars ?

[Charles Loving]

Good work Bockbeer keep it up. Watch out for the quincerera monsters. And
the Martian sand worms. I have seen them on the tee vee, they live under
the dunes and eat people. There were two or three on earth out in Utah that
some folks killed with an elephant gun or some such. But they may still
live on Mars. I don't think there are any on Pluto but who knows. Prince
Bacaratti had a hidden base on Pluto. He was the evil guy that attacked
Earth with a tornado weapon. Buzz Cory and Cadet Happy took car of that at
some point.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:33 AM David  wrote:

> Several science journals have published the picture below
>
>
> https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/img/WlcXZdMWg5_hngz8_53JUE-1TH4=/2019/09/16/a250240d-588e-4372-bffb-b0f5cf2adc52/north-polar-dunes-on-mars1.png
>
> It would seem obvious here, we are looking at dunes of some kind, and I
> will call them sand dunes for lack of a better term. The article
> claims the dunes are frozen.Meaning, the dunes are allegedly hard as a
> solid rock, not soft like dunes on Earth.
>
> If you zoom in carefully, in certain areas, the black mineral is clearly
> displaying a pattern of having flowed into the
> position it is presently in.   It would seem it is lighter in weight than
> the sand below it.
>
> What I would like to draw your attention to are the areas where the black
> mineral flow is "resurging" on the opposite
> side of the dune ( flowing from left to right in the photo )
>
> If this is true, it would indicate the black mineral has tunneled its way
> through the dune, in some places
>
> I would guess the dunes were formed by wind, ( during a warmer time ?? )
>
> I believe that I see slot canyons where the black substance cut through
> the dunes.
>
> I would buy the theory that the black mineral once flowed as a liquid and
> not as a gel or molten rock.
> I would say it originated from below the sand.
>
> I do not see where the black mineral was blown by the wind. I do not
> know what that means.Is
> it to heavy to get airborne. I do not see any splatter like you might
> see with a geyser.
>
> There is something interesting in the valleys of the dunes to the far top
> left corner. The basins
> seem to be filled with boulders and craters or holes.
>
> One could possibly imagine there in those basins a giant field of
> popcorn-like-structures the size of a school-bus.
>
> Another possibility is something like black-moonmilk.But that would be
> a little too exciting.   Right ?As that
> would indicate a bacteria-infused liquid. And since bacteria is a
> living organism, that would excite a lot of
> people.
>
> D.L.
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Europe Wants Ideas for Cave-Spelunking Moon Robots.

[Charles Loving]

Cave drones? Covers can now sit back and let the drone do all of it. I
think Lockheed had developed the Locklear Modle 6. It runs on carbide.

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 12:49 PM Jon Cradit 
wrote:

> FYI….
>
> *https://www.space.com/europe-moon-cave-exploration-ideas.html?utm_source=sdc-newsletter_medium=email_campaign=20190916-sdc
> *
>
>
>
> Jon Cradit
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Caving in movie scenes

[bmorgan994]

The Weazel seconds that opinion, "It" is a classic! I read incessantly, and 
though I rarely read horror novels I consider Stephen King to be our best 
contemporary novelist! 

Fans of the genre may also wish to watch "Killer Clowns from Outer Space", 
another classic!

Sleaze

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Mallory
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 11:08 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caving in movie scenes

It was a great book. In the book they fought the creature in the sewers beneath 
their town so I guess they switched it to a cave in the movie. I don’t 
know...haven’t seen it...the hubby hates horror movies. *eyeroll*

On another note, I sympathize with you on Eddie Money! I also noted that news 
on Friday AM...super sad. My brother Caleb and I saw him live in a bar along 
the coast an hour south of Houston in 2009 or 10 (might have been in Santa Fe - 
it was close to Kemah, I remember that much.) we were the youngest people there 
by at least 20 years. Some older woman rubbed my brothers head and cooed, 
“awwwhe’s still wet behind the ears” and a bunch of middle aged women were 
aggressively shoving to get to the front of the crowd, and jumped onstage so 
Eddie Money’s lone security guard had to escort them back down. Eddie Money has 
hilarious commentary like “I sold 20 million albums...shoulda saved some of 
that money, huh?” And “anyone got a couch I can crash on tonight? Who wants to 
party with the Moneyman?” It was HILARIOUS. He dedicated a song “to the troops” 
which Caleb and I agreed was a nice sentiment but we couldn’t understand a word 
he was singing. I can’t remember if he closed with “take me home tonight” or 
“shakin” but it was excellent. After the show was over this couple came up and 
talked to Cal and I and we both definitely got the vibe they were trying to 
swing some sort of group sex/swapping setup, but as soon as they realized that 
we were brother and sister and not a couple they looked super awkward and 
hightailed it out of there. Eddie Money was a cool cat but you could tell he 
did a LOT of drugs in the 80s. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:35 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> My daughter, Cavepearl, twisted my arm to take her to see the new Stephen 
> King movie, "It - Chapter Two." 
> 
> [ Disclaimer:I despise horror stories in any format ]
> 
> So after wasting $ 23 on movie tickets and $ 10 in gas, I was not a happy 
> camper.
> 
> The protagonist group of alleged misfits ( a.k.a. The Losers ) find a very 
> odd wooden hatch that looked of ancient origin, maybe thousands of years old, 
> and maybe built by a forgotten Indian tribe or aliens.
> 
> This was not odd to them apparently, so they easily open the hatch and found 
> a cave.
> 
> No surprise to them that there was a cave, so they chose to descend in to it 
> with just one crappy flashlight  [  Sidenote:   they had already used that 
> flashlight for an hour to defeat a man-eating-crab the size of a pig. ]
> 
> There was a caving scene after that similar to Longhorn Caverns.  I 
> think one character eventually had a headlamp.  [ Sidenote:  Had they 
> not seen "The Goonies ?" ]
> 
> This whole caving scene was so retarded, ludicrous, etc
> 
> Spoiler Alert:   This was essentially the same as sitting through a 2 hour 
> episode of "Stranger Things " 
> 
> I hated the movie, and Cavepearl loved it. 
> 
> 
> Generational gap is so odd.   I am deeply saddened by the passing of rock 
> legend, Eddie Money, but nobody I know, seems to care. 
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com 
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | 
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Apology from Mal - Caving in movie scenes

[Mallory]

I’m so sorry Cavetex subscribers! I meant to send this reply only to David and 
I didn’t realize it went to the whole mailing list.  (actually, I’m on a 
couple of his email lists and never noticed notice this came from CaveTex) My 
sincere apologies for more non-caving related emails/oversharing old bar 
stories on the listserv. 

Mallory

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 10:08 PM, Mallory  wrote:
> 
> It was a great book. In the book they fought the creature in the sewers 
> beneath their town so I guess they switched it to a cave in the movie. I 
> don’t know...haven’t seen it...the hubby hates horror movies. *eyeroll*
> 
> On another note, I sympathize with you on Eddie Money! I also noted that news 
> on Friday AM...super sad. My brother Caleb and I saw him live in a bar along 
> the coast an hour south of Houston in 2009 or 10 (might have been in Santa Fe 
> - it was close to Kemah, I remember that much.) we were the youngest people 
> there by at least 20 years. Some older woman rubbed my brothers head and 
> cooed, “awwwhe’s still wet behind the ears” and a bunch of middle aged 
> women were aggressively shoving to get to the front of the crowd, and jumped 
> onstage so Eddie Money’s lone security guard had to escort them back down. 
> Eddie Money has hilarious commentary like “I sold 20 million albums...shoulda 
> saved some of that money, huh?” And “anyone got a couch I can crash on 
> tonight? Who wants to party with the Moneyman?” It was HILARIOUS. He 
> dedicated a song “to the troops” which Caleb and I agreed was a nice 
> sentiment but we couldn’t understand a word he was singing. I can’t remember 
> if he closed with “take me home tonight” or “shakin” but it was excellent. 
> After the show was over this couple came up and talked to Cal and I and we 
> both definitely got the vibe they were trying to swing some sort of group 
> sex/swapping setup, but as soon as they realized that we were brother and 
> sister and not a couple they looked super awkward and hightailed it out of 
> there. Eddie Money was a cool cat but you could tell he did a LOT of drugs in 
> the 80s. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:35 PM, David  wrote:
>> 
>> My daughter, Cavepearl, twisted my arm to take her to see the new Stephen 
>> King movie, "It - Chapter Two." 
>> 
>> [ Disclaimer:I despise horror stories in any format ]
>> 
>> So after wasting $ 23 on movie tickets and $ 10 in gas, I was not a happy 
>> camper.
>> 
>> The protagonist group of alleged misfits ( a.k.a. The Losers ) find a very 
>> odd wooden hatch that looked of ancient origin, maybe thousands of years 
>> old, and maybe built by a forgotten Indian tribe or aliens.
>> 
>> This was not odd to them apparently, so they easily open the hatch and found 
>> a cave.
>> 
>> No surprise to them that there was a cave, so they chose to descend in to it 
>> with just one crappy flashlight  [  Sidenote:   they had already used that 
>> flashlight for an hour to defeat a man-eating-crab the size of a pig. ]
>> 
>> There was a caving scene after that similar to Longhorn Caverns.  I think 
>> one character eventually had a headlamp.  [ Sidenote:  Had they not seen 
>> "The Goonies ?" ]
>> 
>> This whole caving scene was so retarded, ludicrous, etc 
>> 
>> Spoiler Alert:   This was essentially the same as sitting through a 2 hour 
>> episode of "Stranger Things " 
>> 
>> I hated the movie, and Cavepearl loved it. 
>> 
>> 
>> Generational gap is so odd.   I am deeply saddened by the passing of rock 
>> legend, Eddie Money, but nobody I know, seems to care. 
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Caves in movie scenes

[David]

In this movie, "It - Chapter Two,"  I think at the main intersection of the
sewer system, there was a large  room about 50 feet in diameter and 100
foot tall main-made concrete cylinder, obviously designed and engineered
and built around the secret ancient cave.  ( But with no manhole above ???
) The room was about chest-deep in very nasty water with some kind of odd
ancient wooden platform around the cave entrance.

Feel free to correct me, as I was half-asleep.



A few seconds after my post mentioning the passing of singer Eddie Money, I
learned singer, Rik Ocasek died.   When I was in college, a lot of guys
were jealous of him, because he married the most beautiful woman on Earth,
while Billy Joel only got Christie Brinkley.

On my first caving road-trips, I still had an 8-track tape-player, but
eventually either had a portable cassette-player, and eventually a fancy
in-dash cassette player.   I would listen to both Eddie Money and Rik
Ocasek ( of The Cars ) on road-trips to various caves.

Like Biden, I too reminisce about a simpler time in life, but I do not
think listening to an 8-track tape player is going to fix our nation's
problems.

While the nature protesters were dangling from the now famous bridge near
LaPorte, Texas, the Houston area lost 1,000 acres of forest-land, (
deforestation ), and it did not make the news anywhere.  Most of that was
in Fort Bend County for the extension of the Fort Bend County Tollroad.

Every single tree in the route is now gone, many were 100 years old:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/QNyLnxFwm7jBUqM29

I seriously doubt that any real plan to replant trees will be enforced.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Caving in movie scenes

[Mallory]

It was a great book. In the book they fought the creature in the sewers beneath 
their town so I guess they switched it to a cave in the movie. I don’t 
know...haven’t seen it...the hubby hates horror movies. *eyeroll*

On another note, I sympathize with you on Eddie Money! I also noted that news 
on Friday AM...super sad. My brother Caleb and I saw him live in a bar along 
the coast an hour south of Houston in 2009 or 10 (might have been in Santa Fe - 
it was close to Kemah, I remember that much.) we were the youngest people there 
by at least 20 years. Some older woman rubbed my brothers head and cooed, 
“awwwhe’s still wet behind the ears” and a bunch of middle aged women were 
aggressively shoving to get to the front of the crowd, and jumped onstage so 
Eddie Money’s lone security guard had to escort them back down. Eddie Money has 
hilarious commentary like “I sold 20 million albums...shoulda saved some of 
that money, huh?” And “anyone got a couch I can crash on tonight? Who wants to 
party with the Moneyman?” It was HILARIOUS. He dedicated a song “to the troops” 
which Caleb and I agreed was a nice sentiment but we couldn’t understand a word 
he was singing. I can’t remember if he closed with “take me home tonight” or 
“shakin” but it was excellent. After the show was over this couple came up and 
talked to Cal and I and we both definitely got the vibe they were trying to 
swing some sort of group sex/swapping setup, but as soon as they realized that 
we were brother and sister and not a couple they looked super awkward and 
hightailed it out of there. Eddie Money was a cool cat but you could tell he 
did a LOT of drugs in the 80s. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2019, at 7:35 PM, David  wrote:
> 
> My daughter, Cavepearl, twisted my arm to take her to see the new Stephen 
> King movie, "It - Chapter Two." 
> 
> [ Disclaimer:I despise horror stories in any format ]
> 
> So after wasting $ 23 on movie tickets and $ 10 in gas, I was not a happy 
> camper.
> 
> The protagonist group of alleged misfits ( a.k.a. The Losers ) find a very 
> odd wooden hatch that looked of ancient origin, maybe thousands of years old, 
> and maybe built by a forgotten Indian tribe or aliens.
> 
> This was not odd to them apparently, so they easily open the hatch and found 
> a cave.
> 
> No surprise to them that there was a cave, so they chose to descend in to it 
> with just one crappy flashlight  [  Sidenote:   they had already used that 
> flashlight for an hour to defeat a man-eating-crab the size of a pig. ]
> 
> There was a caving scene after that similar to Longhorn Caverns.  I think one 
> character eventually had a headlamp.  [ Sidenote:  Had they not seen "The 
> Goonies ?" ]
> 
> This whole caving scene was so retarded, ludicrous, etc 
> 
> Spoiler Alert:   This was essentially the same as sitting through a 2 hour 
> episode of "Stranger Things " 
> 
> I hated the movie, and Cavepearl loved it. 
> 
> 
> Generational gap is so odd.   I am deeply saddened by the passing of rock 
> legend, Eddie Money, but nobody I know, seems to care. 
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland's Hot Tub

[bmorgan994]

Mark: Good to see you at the Old Timers however briefly! I think there were
closer to 2000 people there but I'm not sure.

Peter would be rolling over in his grave to learn of the changes afoot for
the Old Timers watersports. The collapse of the hot tub last year has led to
dire new plans. These include an in ground "kiddie pool" in place of  the
hot tub. It will be located in the flood plain so it is guaranteed to be a
disaster. The idea is to pour so much concrete that the weight of the
concrete will be greater than that of the displaced water, thus we will have
a vast concrete apron around a shallow piss puddle. 

Worse than that, the pool and the two proposed "commercial grade" saunas
will be heated by electricity because "there isn't enough firewood in West
Virginia". If West Virginia ever runs out of firewood, then and only then
would I consider moving the event to Texas. This is what happens when well
meaning bureaucrats plan parties!

Sleazel 

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of
mmin...@caver.net
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2019 1:53 PM
To: CaveTex 
Subject: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland's Hot Tub

I just returned home from the huge Old Timers Reunion in West Virginia. 
(It's usually bigger than the NSS Convention; this year there were around
1500 people registered.) During the event they publish a daily newsletter,
and on Thursday this year there was a nice tribute to Pete Strickland and
his Hot Tubs. I've attached a screenshot. You can download the issue at
.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] various topics

[David]

I overlooked that Geary had already mentioned the passing of Mr. Curl, so
please consider my post about that a supplememtal note.

I think I met him in Kerrville at the big ISS / NSS Convention,. and if so,
he looked familiar then to me.



On a different note,

Boston Dynamics announced that they will have 20 real commercial robots, (
there "Spot" model ) available for purchase at the end of the month and are
testing production methods to eventually sell 100 of them.

It will be interesting to see if Spot can autonomously complete a tour-cave
path alone.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Fwd: Clarification on event Saturday for Jenni Arburn

[James Jasek]

Mimi and I got the first post.

Mmi and Jim

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 7:51 PM, Linda Palit  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think this posted. Trying again. 
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Linda Palit 
> Date: Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 10:29 AM
> Subject: Clarification on event Saturday for Jenni Arburn
> To: Cavers Texas 
> 
> 
> Attire is caver flexible; dress as you choose.  Beverage and food donations 
> to share are welcome. Below is some clarification about the location.  
> 
> 
> The Landmark
> 144 Landa Street
> New Braunfels, TX 
> 
> You may park in the front parking lot, if an overflow of vehicles arises 
> please park across the street from the venue. 
> You may not pass beyond the gates as this is reserved parking for residents.
> 
> Once you arrive, walk into the front building then proceed to the clubroom on 
> the right side first floor. 
> 
> The building is secured and security key fobs are required to ride elevators 
> and other areas of the building. All guests must remain in the Clubroom. 
> 
> The venue and building is non smoking, if you vape or smoke please feel free 
> to go out onto the terrace area. 
> 
> Thank you and we look forward to seeing you soon.
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Caving Video of the Week

[James Jasek]

I like the mud

Jim
Sent from my iPhon
On Sep 8, 2019, at 11:02 PM, David  wrote:

This video has several of the attributes that make a good video for
cavers.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWXTjf0VIec

I would have liked to have been there.


I am on Day # 26 renting a room in an apartment from a random person
on Craigslist.  My roomlord, has not come out of his room
for several days, and I would be tempted to call 911, but this
seems to be his thing, especially on weekends.It is very likely,
that I am the roommate from H***, but he has not indicated that.
I have 90 % of my stuff here now. I built a bunk bed out of 
heavy-duty steel storage racks, and now have a comfy bed, 
and plenty of room to store tote boxes full of the junk that I like to hoard
( LED lights, camping gear, books, winter clothes, etc. ).I hope to 
set-up my bookcase tomorrow, and maybe next week start putting
some of my caving books in it.In summary, I am gambling that
I may be here a few months or longer.


Another caver departed

Ralph Hess Jr.

Ralph Samuel Hess Jr. passed away on Thursday, August 1, 2019. He was born on 
March 24, 1922, in Danville, Va. He was a graduate G.W. High School and then 
went to VPI (VT) where he graduated in 1944 with a degree in aeronautical 
engineering.   He was a life member of the National Speleological Society and 
has part of a cave named for him, "Hess' Hallow" in Blacksburg, Va. 

He and Ruth loved traveling and they visited many countries. He loved sailing 
and being on the water and flying small planes.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/godanriver.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/bf/4bffc52f-be8f-5932-aa88-971be7c08325/5d44f8c8b6d47.image.jpg?resize=300%2C433
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Cave photography classes

[Bennett Lee]

I have received WAY more response for this than I anticipated. In less than 2 
days, the list is over 30 people (10 of which contacted me in the first 20 
minutes). That is awesome. I have been saying for years that we need more cave 
photographers to help document our trips, our caves, etc.

I will be sending out an email containing more details to all the people who 
have signed up. If you haven’t receive the email by tomorrow evening, Monday, 
9/9/19, contact me at benn...@bennettlee.com<mailto:benn...@bennettlee.com>.

--Bennett


From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of Jamie Moon
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2019 8:14 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave photography classes

How many is this limited to for attendance. Is there some type of registration?
Jamie

On Sep 6, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Bennett Lee 
mailto:benn...@bennettlee.com>> wrote:
I am starting up hands-on cave photography classes to various awesome caves. 
Contact me if you’re interested. You don’t need fancy camera gear or even any 
gear at all—there is still plenty to learn about techniques and gear, 
especially before you start buying anything. Part of these classes is finding 
out what equipment works in a cave and what doesn’t. Experienced photographers 
are welcome, too. This is a great opportunity for us to collaborate and share 
knowledge and improve techniques while we do what we love—caving.

You don’t need to attend every trip because every trip is an opportunity to 
learn something new, plus you get to go caving in beautiful, photogenic caves. 
You’ll get to practice in-cave techniques and learn basic camera settings, 
flash placement, framing, and more. I’ll describe my thought process as I setup 
a shot. You can ask questions and get real-time feedback as you setup your own 
shots. This is an opportunity that I never had when I started, and I want to 
help you get a jump start on your photography by sharing what I’ve learned over 
the years.

I have an opportunity to take one or two photographers to a private cave on 
September 28, 2019. Note that this is the same time as Robber Baron Open House, 
so you can’t do both (sorry, this trip was planned before the open house was 
announced). This cave happens to be my favorite cave of all time. It is highly 
decorated and consistently produces my best cave photos. This is a water cave, 
so you will need a wetsuit.

If you are interested in this trip or interested in learning or collaborating 
on cave photography, contact me at 
benn...@bennettlee.com<mailto:benn...@bennettlee.com> or 210-393-3806.

--Bennett
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[JOHN CHELF]

 Bill,
Marcia Cossey, also known as Marcia Cossey-Littlestar, born in Waco, May 
29,1956, died in Austin, TX., January 24, 2007, and Paula Good, born January 
22,1954, died in Longview, TX., July 29, 2018.  Both were active cavers from 
the grotto associated with the institution in San Marcos, formerly known as 
Southwest Texas State University.  Marcia was grotto president in the mid 
1970's.
Thanks, John Chelf
On Thursday, September 5, 2019, 09:37:38 PM CDT, William R. Elliott 
 wrote:  
 
 Dear cavers,
I have uploaded a lot of new material to The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers -- 
I think 14 obituaries and tributes for cavers who passed away over the last 
four years, and info on 54 cavers in all. 
Go to http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm
It takes time to find this info, but I have more to add to the years before 
2016. Also see In Memory of Texas Cavers at https://www.cavetexas.org/rmiller/  
last updated in 2010. It is part of the TSA website.
Please help show respect for our departed friends by checking it out and 
sending me additions and corrections. I would appreciate it very much.
Thanks to all,
William R. (Bill) Elliott


speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
  ___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Delete from email list

[Charles Goldsmith]

Removed, thanks Jocie.

On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 8:34 PM  wrote:

> I keep forgetting to do this since Pete died.  He loved to read the
> conversations generated here.  I have my own subscription.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Jocie Hooper
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Cave photography classes

[Jamie Moon]

How many is this limited to for attendance. Is there some type of registration? 

Jamie 

> On Sep 6, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Bennett Lee  wrote:
> 
> I am starting up hands-on cave photography classes to various awesome caves. 
> Contact me if you’re interested. You don’t need fancy camera gear or even any 
> gear at all—there is still plenty to learn about techniques and gear, 
> especially before you start buying anything. Part of these classes is finding 
> out what equipment works in a cave and what doesn’t. Experienced 
> photographers are welcome, too. This is a great opportunity for us to 
> collaborate and share knowledge and improve techniques while we do what we 
> love—caving.
>  
> You don’t need to attend every trip because every trip is an opportunity to 
> learn something new, plus you get to go caving in beautiful, photogenic 
> caves. You’ll get to practice in-cave techniques and learn basic camera 
> settings, flash placement, framing, and more. I’ll describe my thought 
> process as I setup a shot. You can ask questions and get real-time feedback 
> as you setup your own shots. This is an opportunity that I never had when I 
> started, and I want to help you get a jump start on your photography by 
> sharing what I’ve learned over the years.
>  
> I have an opportunity to take one or two photographers to a private cave on 
> September 28, 2019. Note that this is the same time as Robber Baron Open 
> House, so you can’t do both (sorry, this trip was planned before the open 
> house was announced). This cave happens to be my favorite cave of all time. 
> It is highly decorated and consistently produces my best cave photos. This is 
> a water cave, so you will need a wetsuit.
>  
> If you are interested in this trip or interested in learning or collaborating 
> on cave photography, contact me at benn...@bennettlee.com or 210-393-3806.
>  
> --Bennett
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Elections

[Linda Palit]

We already have some volunteers!  We need a few more.  What can I sign your
up for?

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 4:46 PM Mike Flannigan  wrote:

>
> Wow, can you hear those crickets :-)
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> On 9/5/2019 11:00 AM, texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com wrote:
> > It’s that time again!  TSA officer elections are upon us!
> > We need nominations for President, Secretary, Treasurer, and Vice
> > President.
> >
> > The duties according to the  the organizational bylaws,
> >
> > “1. The Chairman, when present, shall preside over all TSA meetings.
> > 2. The Vice-Chairman is responsible for meeting and program arrangements
> > and shall preside at
> > TSA meeting is the absence of the Chairman.
> > 3. The Secretary records the minutes of TSA meetings and maintains a
> > current list of members.
> > 4. The Treasurer keeps track of TSA assets by maintaining adequate
> > financial records, including
> > those for The Texas Caver. The Treasurer prepares a budget for the fiscal
> > year, maintains the membership database, and insures the database is
> > available electronically to the membership.”
> >
> > Please send your nominations as soon as possible. Also, if you happen to
> > have talked to your nomination let me know.  Otherwise I am glad to
> contact
> > them. An email or phone number would be helpful.
> >
> >
> > Dates and deadlines will follow.
> > Thanks,
> > Linda
>
>
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[Mike Flannigan]

Nicely done.
Thanks for doing that.


Mike


On 9/6/2019 11:00 AM, texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com wrote:

Dear cavers,

I have uploaded a lot of new material to *The Hall of Texas and Mexico
Cavers* -- I think 14 obituaries and tributes for cavers who passed away
over the last four years, and info on 54 cavers in all.

Go tohttp://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm

It takes time to find this info, but I have more to add to the years before
2016. Also see*In Memory of Texas Cavers*  at
https://www.cavetexas.org/rmiller/   last updated in 2010. It is part of the
TSA website.

Please help show respect for our departed friends by checking it out and
sending me additions and corrections. I would appreciate it very much.

Thanks to all,

*William R. (Bill) Elliott*


___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] The Hall

[David]

Thank you, Bill.

I recall reading many of those older stories when I first started caving
during the mid 80's, and sadly again as more happened.

Let's hope we don't make the list for another 50 years.

There were some members of GHG and ASS that passed away, but the only one I
can think of that was active for many years was Jim McLane.

Lyle Moss was once a member of GHG, but I do not know if he did any Texas
or Mexico or New Mexico caving.


Storm update:

As of 4:30 a.m., the center of eye of the hurricane is a few miles offshore
of the community of Beaufort, North Carolina, projected to move northeast
passing just off Cape Hatteras National Seashore, and then hopefully stay
off shore and weaken.


I have heard that the Carolinas are a beautiful place to live.
Some of my ancestors lived or passed thru the Carolinas in the 1700's.   I
can only imagine they were lured to migrate westward for reasons similar to
my own reasons for migrating - in search of greener pastures.   Allegedly
there is an Native-American group there called Lumbee, and many of them
have my last name - a name which is not common in Europe.   Like a recent
politician, I claim part of that Native-American heritage, based on stories
from my grandparents.   I should do a DNA test.

D. L.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] The Hall of Texas and Mexico Cavers

[mminton]

Bill,

Good work! One addition that comes to mind right away is Blair Pittman 
(2016). I found a couple of obituaries online: 
, 
.


Mark Minton

On 2019-09-05 21:36, William R. Elliott wrote:

Dear cavers,

I have uploaded a lot of new material to THE HALL OF TEXAS AND MEXICO
CAVERS -- I think 14 obituaries and tributes for cavers who passed
away over the last four years, and info on 54 cavers in all.

Go to http://cavelife.info/hall/hall.htm

It takes time to find this info, but I have more to add to the years
before 2016. Also see IN MEMORY OF TEXAS CAVERS at
https://www.cavetexas.org/rmiller/  last updated in 2010. It is part
of the TSA website.

Please help show respect for our departed friends by checking it out
and sending me additions and corrections. I would appreciate it very
much.

Thanks to all,

WILLIAM R. (BILL) ELLIOTT
speodes...@gmail.com
573-291-5093 cell

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Suicide Falls

[David]

When I did this drop in 2000, the trip leader ( who resembled one of the
guys in the bolting photo of Minton's slide-show ), had a very low cost
tiny walkie-talkie, and he went down first and the last person to go down
of about 5 or 6 cavers had an identical walkie-talkie.  "On rope" and "Off
rope" were simplified.

I had been on drops before where those walkie talkies would have been
helpful.

I doubt that I have been on any significant drops or any drops since.   I
had big plans to make several trips to the upper entrance of Cueva El Abra
in 2004, but I had some major work setbacks, and then under-estimated the
demands of fatherhood and owning a fancy brick home in the extra-suburbs,
etc.  The home is half-paid for now, but I seldom if ever spend the night
there.

D.L.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] West Virginia caves

[mminton]

Thanks. That photo replicates an iconic older photo of the same passage, 
except without the caver on rope. The Big Room, or Subway Tunnel, is one 
of the largest passages in West Virginia. The normal route in is a 
160-foot rappel near a waterfall (named Suicide Falls because of deaths 
when people rappelled it directly in the old days).


Mark M

On 2019-09-03 17:20, Barb wrote:

Wow! Awesome photo.
Barb and Don Coons

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 3, 2019, at 4:26 PM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:

Well, since you asked, last weekend Zeb Lilly and Brian Williams 
connected McClungs Cave to Maxwelton by diving an intervening sump. 
The resulting Great Savannah System is 40 miles long. Another cave 
called Ludington is very close to connecting and will add another 9 
miles. So, there will soon be another 50-mile-long cave on the books.


Cass is one of my project caves. The historic entrance has been closed 
for years, but we now have a backdoor at the far end near the 
downstream sump. (A through trip would be possible, but has never been 
done that I know of.) We resurveyed Cass several years ago and made 
several significant new discoveries. Bob Zimmerman published a 
monograph on the cave in 2011: , but it is 
already out-of-print. Cover photo attached. That is not the classic 
drop near Suicide Falls, but rather a new drop from a passage accessed 
by bolt climbing. The main passage is about 100 feet high. Terry 
McClanathan is on rope and I'm holding the flash.


Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net


On 2019-09-03 13:23, David wrote:
In 2000, I had the unique opportunity to go on a recreational caving
trip into Cass Cave.That trip was one of the most fun ever.   (
But only to learn two weeks later, that one of the cavers on the trip
had later had a heart attack and died [ Sanders ? ] )
While in the area, I visited entrances to several caves.
I could only wonder what was below and the undiscovered passages
remaining there, as the potential for digging seemed enormous -
breakdown blocked passages, airflow, sumps, subterreanean
resurgencesc, springs etc.
What a wonderful place for a caver to live.
It will be exciting to someday hear the news of any connection 
between

two caves.
D.L.




___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Caving in West Virigina

[John Corcoran III]

Thanks Mark!

Regards,

John

-Original Message-
From: swrcav...@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
mmin...@caver.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 8:40 AM
To: CaveTex ; SWR 
Subject: [SWR CAVERS] Caving in West Virigina

If anyone is curious about the type of caving we do in Germany Valley (West 
Virginia), the NSS recently posted a video of a presentation I gave to RASS 
(Richmond Area Speleological Society) summarizing recent
exploration: . It is about one 
hour long. There may be trips to some of these caves during next year's NSS 
Convention, which will be held only about an hour away near Elkins, WV.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/c2698ee7d201e7d3478ad79e4a21d61e%40caver.net.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] West Virginia caves

[Barb]

Wow! Awesome photo.
Barb and Don Coons

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2019, at 4:26 PM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:
> 
> Well, since you asked, last weekend Zeb Lilly and Brian Williams connected 
> McClungs Cave to Maxwelton by diving an intervening sump. The resulting Great 
> Savannah System is 40 miles long. Another cave called Ludington is very close 
> to connecting and will add another 9 miles. So, there will soon be another 
> 50-mile-long cave on the books.
> 
> Cass is one of my project caves. The historic entrance has been closed for 
> years, but we now have a backdoor at the far end near the downstream sump. (A 
> through trip would be possible, but has never been done that I know of.) We 
> resurveyed Cass several years ago and made several significant new 
> discoveries. Bob Zimmerman published a monograph on the cave in 2011: 
> , but it is already out-of-print. Cover photo 
> attached. That is not the classic drop near Suicide Falls, but rather a new 
> drop from a passage accessed by bolt climbing. The main passage is about 100 
> feet high. Terry McClanathan is on rope and I'm holding the flash.
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
>> On 2019-09-03 13:23, David wrote:
>> In 2000, I had the unique opportunity to go on a recreational caving
>> trip into Cass Cave.That trip was one of the most fun ever.   (
>> But only to learn two weeks later, that one of the cavers on the trip
>> had later had a heart attack and died [ Sanders ? ] )
>> While in the area, I visited entrances to several caves.
>> I could only wonder what was below and the undiscovered passages
>> remaining there, as the potential for digging seemed enormous -
>> breakdown blocked passages, airflow, sumps, subterreanean
>> resurgencesc, springs etc.
>> What a wonderful place for a caver to live.
>> It will be exciting to someday hear the news of any connection between
>> two caves.
>> D.L.
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers


1 Cup (Before Bed) Burns Belly Fat Like Crazy!
worldhealthlabs.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5d6ee7272404467263644st01duc
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Caving in West Virigina

[PRESTON FORSYTHE]

Looking forward to viewing.
Preston in KY and already planning on WVA Conventionon the way to 
Huntsville tomorrow for volunteer work on hdqtrs several days and more, 
including grotto mtg.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 9:40 AM, mmin...@caver.net wrote:   
If anyone is curious about the type of caving we do in Germany Valley 
(West Virginia), the NSS recently posted a video of a presentation I 
gave to RASS (Richmond Area Speleological Society) summarizing recent 
exploration: . It is about 
one hour long. There may be trips to some of these caves during next 
year's NSS Convention, which will be held only about an hour away near 
Elkins, WV.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
  
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Pete Strickland's Hot Tub

[Julia Germany]

Thank you for sharing.

Wonderful pic of Pete, and fantastic history of caver-innovated saunas and hot 
tubs.

- from julia's cell


> On Sep 2, 2019, at 12:52, "mmin...@caver.net"  wrote:
> 
> I just returned home from the huge Old Timers Reunion in West Virginia. (It's 
> usually bigger than the NSS Convention; this year there were around 1500 
> people registered.) During the event they publish a daily newsletter, and on 
> Thursday this year there was a nice tribute to Pete Strickland and his Hot 
> Tubs. I've attached a screenshot. You can download the issue at 
> .
> 
> Mark Minton
> mmin...@caver.net
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Anybody want some old NSS News?

[Andy Gluesenkamp]

Oh, hell yeah!  I've been torn trying to decide what to do with mine.  
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 
(512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com 

On Sunday, September 1, 2019, 12:31:41 PM CDT, Jim Kennedy 
 wrote:  
 
 The TSS will always take donations like that. 
Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone
On Sep 1, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Roadrunner  wrote:


Cleaning up — I’ve got a banker's box full of issues of the NSS News from the 
late 90’s to mid-2000’s. Free to a good home.
They‘ll go in the recycling in a month or so if I don’t hear from anyone.
Chris Vreelandcvreeland@mac.com512-289-3510




___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
  ___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Anybody want some old NSS News?

[mminton]

I know it's nice to actually hold a magazine in your hands instead of 
reading one on a screen, but for archival purposes, all back issues of 
the NSS News are available free of charge to NSS members on the NSS 
website. An advantage to digital versions is that they are 
electronically searchable.


Mark Minton
mmion...@caver.net

On 2019-09-01 12:31, Jim Kennedy wrote:

The TSS will always take donations like that.

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

On Sep 1, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Roadrunner 
wrote:


Cleaning up — I’ve got a banker's box full of issues of the NSS
News from the late 90’s to mid-2000’s. Free to a good home.

They‘ll go in the recycling in a month or so if I don’t hear
from anyone.

Chris Vreeland
cvreel...@mac.com
512-289-3510

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Anybody want some old NSS News?

[Jim Kennedy]

The TSS will always take donations like that. 

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2019, at 11:40 AM, Roadrunner  wrote:
> 
> Cleaning up — I’ve got a banker's box full of issues of the NSS News from the 
> late 90’s to mid-2000’s. Free to a good home.
> 
> They‘ll go in the recycling in a month or so if I don’t hear from anyone.
> 
> Chris Vreeland
> cvreel...@mac.com
> 512-289-3510
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] consumer tip

[Marvin Miller]

HP has a new “Instant Ink” plan. You sign up for 50 pages a month for
$3.00, 100 pages for $5.00, etc. They send you a set of ink cartridges to
start with and then whenever you change them the printer communicates that
and they send you new cartridges. The only thing you pay is the monthly
fee. I signed up for it with my new printer. It seems like a really good
deal, comparatively.



Marvin

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 2:41 AM David  wrote:

> For anyone shopping for a new printer for their computer.
>
> I have a very tiny business, or at least I pretend to. I have
> been trying to get by with old printers and fax machines for
> most of my 21 years in business, and lately it was getting
> frustrating that my printer and fax machine
> was limited on certain features.
>
> Today, the straw broke the camel's back, and I had to go
> buy a new printer. I had been shopping for months, so I had
> a pretty good idea what I wanted.  So I went to Sam's Club
> and got their best HP printer, which as of this writing is the
> OfficeJet Pro 9018. This model stands out slightly over
> a lesser model sitting next to it, as the box includes full-capacity
> cartridges, and a USB cable.If you are the kind of person that
> prints a couple of full-page multi-color pages per month, then this
> is a logical choice for you, as the cartridges are nearly twice the size
> of printers that are slightly less expensive. If you are doing a lot
> more color printing than that, then you need to order something online,
> or go to MicroCenter or Fry's, an get an enterprise class, but those start
> at $ 500 for HP models.
>
> This printer has some bells and whistles on it, like allegedly
> voice-printing.
>
> If you have not purchased a $ 200 printer in the past year or two, you
> might
> be in for a surprise at how complicated the set-up is. You are going
> to want
> a 6-pack of your favorite beverage, and do your yoga or find your
> happy-place
> first. I would have to say you need to plan on a 3 step process and
> take
> a break between those 3 steps.   1 ) unboxing, drink your beverage 2 ) find
> a place to set down the printer and connect the 3 cables.( You are
> going to
> need an extension cord, for example, and maybe even a USB extender ), drink
> your bevarage. and
> 3 ) getting your computer to finish the set up, drink the remaining 4
> beverages.
>
>
> In my case, I have a Linux computer, so setting up an HP printer is
> simple, if not almost fully automatic.
>
> This printer shakes when it prints, so if you have it on a folding table,
> or
> wobbly table, you are going to notice it vibrating back and forth.
>
> Everything about the printers in the home-market class are cheap disposable
> quality.I can only hope it will last 2 years.
>
> It is no surprise, but even at Sam's Club the ink cartridges are super
> expensive.
> In my opinion, ink is # 1 factor in choosing a new printer.
>
> I have used Brother printers and faxes for the past few years. Those
> will save
> you money, but you are missing out on some features. For example, HP's
> ePrint
> works really well. And in my case HP printers are easier to install
> than Brother.
>
> The cheap HP printers do not do photo-quality printing, but the pictures
> are good enough to win
> an NSS Award for a grotto newsletter.  When was the last time a Texas
> grotto
> won a Newsletter Cover Award at the NSS Convention ?
>
> David Locklear
>
> P.S.   I am on Day # 17 renting a room from some random stranger on
> Craigslist. I am
> probably going to try to stick it out till October.  Things today are
> better than they
> were when I moved in, almost livable by my standards.The main problem
> is the air-quality
> coming out of the AC unit.
>
> David
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] various topics

[Barb]

Wow, David. Terry Murray was a good friend of mine for many years. We lost 
touch and I was just thinking about him the other day. Thank you for finding 
that.
Barb Coons

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2019, at 2:22 AM, David  wrote:
> 
> I hope you are all caving this Labor Day Weekend, or at least enjoying a shady
> spot on a lake or river somewhere.I wish I was sitting under a beautiful 
> waterfall.
> But I am stuck here in Houston for weeks, if not months.
> 
> As I have mentioned several times, it is my opinion that if someone
> is going to sum up their life in a tiny paragraph for a few people to read
> in the news, and they or their loved ones make the effort to mention they
> were a member of The National Speleological Society, or loved caves, or
> loved caving, etc., or that he asked for donations to go to a caving project, 
> etc.
> then the least I can do is mention that here.
> 
> Terrance Murray
> 
> Terrence Alan “Terry” Murray, age 57, of Aurora, IL, passed away in the 
> evening of August 25, 2019.
> 
> Terry loved the outdoors. He liked to go hiking, skiing, canoeing, and 
> birding. He also liked to explore caves as a member of the National 
> Speleological Society (Windy City Grotto.) Terry especially liked birding and 
> became expert in bird songs and the identification of birds. He led birding 
> walks in parks and forest preserves around Aurora and the greater Chicago 
> area. He led numerous birding walks around Nelson Lake in Batavia where a 
> bench was installed in his honor. He was a member of the Kane County Audubon 
> Society, the Sierra Club, and the Phoenix Club of Aurora. Terry was a loving 
> brother and friend, an avid nature enthusiast, and an adventurer. 
> 
> Additional visitation to follow on Saturday, August 31, from 10-11 a.m., with 
> a service to celebrate his life of laughter to follow at 11 a.m. In lieu of 
> flowers, donations may be made to Kane County Audubon Society, 513 S. 13th 
> Ave., St. Charles, IL 60174. Tributes may also be left on Conley Funeral Home 
> Facebook Page or at www.conleycare.com. 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard E. "Trick" Howard
> Lafayette ( Tennesse ?? )
> 
> 62, passed away peacefully on  July 4, 2019, at home with his wife. He was a 
> nature lover, wood worker, eagle scout, huge caving enthusiast.
> 
> I am not certain of the passing of the next one, so someone else will have to 
> inquire
> ( someone with the same name had an obituary that was in the same area, and 
> mentioned caving )
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/shirley.sotona
> 
> 
> For any of you out there craving news related to caving, here is a web-site, 
> that seems to be well organized
> 
> https://www.karst.org/
> 
> 
> Back on the home front, or I should say office front, my new HP OfficeJet Pro 
> printer barely survived the first day of use.These
> new models are so flimsy, that you have to be super extra cautious moving 
> them around. Remove the paper tray, and all the
> cords, save the packing material, wrap it in bubble wrap if you have to move 
> it, and keep it horizontal.Better just not to move
> it at all, and go buy another one for each spot you think you need a printer. 
> These models would not survive in a business
> where employees, and customers have regular access to the unit. I sent 20 
> faxes, and not a single one of them was 
> received.So Day # 1 was a bummer.Faxing in 2019, seems so *#%&, but 
> that is the way it is still done in most law
> firms, and courts.
> 
> D.L.
> 
> 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Do This (Before Bed) to Burn Belly Flab All Night Long
worldhealthlabs.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5d6a813cd818113a2e67st03duc___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

[Missy Singleton]

I'd be happy to help with all of that.  The USFWS doesn't do sponsorships.  I 
would be happy to ask the Austin field office if they would like to set up a 
table at the conference and/or I'd be happy to man that table.  The biggest 
thing for us right now is WNS as far as bats.  Other karst critters we are 
concerned about include everything in the Edwards aquafir water shed.

Missy

From: Texascavers  on behalf of Jim 
Kennedy 
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 12:17 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

10-4. Maybe doing the call for papers?  Or something similar?  Promotion?  
Registration?

Do you think USFWS would want to sponsor (i.e. donate money)?  Or set up a 
table during the conference?  I don’t even know who there is working with karst 
critters any more.

Thanks!

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2019, at 12:13 PM, Missy Singleton 
mailto:missie...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Please let me know what I can do from afar.  

Missy

From: Texascavers 
mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com>>
 on behalf of Crash Kennedy mailto:cavercr...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 4:59 PM
To: CaveTex mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>>
Subject: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

Cavers,

Every two years we have a National Cave and Karst Management Symposium (NCKMS) 
somewhere around the country.  This year's is in Bristol, Virginia 
(http://nckms.org/).  The last one in Texas was in 1989 (New Braunfels).  I 
hope to bring it back home in 2021.  But for that I will need some help.

It's not a large conference, only about 150 people or so.  But we still need to 
rent a venue, coordinate speakers and publish the Proceedings, plan and run 
field trips, host a banquet, find corporate/agency sponsors, set up 
Registration, advertise and advertise some more, and handle a hundred other 
details.  I'm hosting a meeting at the Texas Speleological Center (14045 North 
Green Hills Loop, Austin, TX  78737-8619) at 1 pm on Sunday 8 September for 
anyone interested in helping in any way.  What I want to do is to put together 
a small organizing committee that will work on this for the next two years, so 
that I can take a symposium bid back the the Steering Committee in Bristol in 
October.  I realize that several of you are remote, or won't be able to attend 
the meeting on such short notice, but are still willing to help in some 
fashion.  That's great!  We'll find a spot for you, also.  Guidelines for 
hosting the event are on the NCKMS website at http://nckms.org/host-a-symposium.

I'm thinking of having it in the San Marcos area.  We have so many things going 
on there:  springs, salamanders, urbanization, bats, nearby show caves, 
potential partner organizations --- the list goes on and on.  And it's a heck 
of a lot cheaper venue than Austin or San Antonio.  But let's get our heads 
together on the 8th and figure this out.

Grab some lunch before you arrive or bring it with you.  The meeting may take 
2-3 hours.  I'll have a whiteboard, and record our ideas somehow.  Bring your 
suggestions, your enthusiasm, and (most of all) yourselves.

Jim "Crash" Kennedy
NCKMS Steering Committee Chair
512-663-2287
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Printer Ink Cartridges

[grubbsi]

I print lots of stuff. reports, airphotos to take in the field, maps and more 
maps.  I got a  tank feed printer Epson ET 2750  It was about $100 more than a 
cartridge fed Canon pixma.  A set of 4 bottles of ink is 50 - 60 $ ( I think)   
I'm still working on the first set of ink bottles.  estimated 4500 pages per 
refill.  quality and print speed is nice  Now If I'm going out in the field I 
can print copies of all the air photos so everyone can have their own

- Original Message -
From: "mminton" 
To: "texascavers" 
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 10:10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Printer Ink Cartridges

Back when I used an inkjet printer (now I use laser toner, which is also 
expensive) I got a very inexpensive universal ink refill kit at Costco. 
It had enough ink to refill dozens of times, and for less than the cost 
of a single cartridge. It worked with any brand, and even had 
instructions for refilling cartridges that we not intended to be 
refilled. It told how to drill a tiny hole into the cartridge ink 
reservoir, and came complete with the drill and plugs for the resulting 
hole. It worked great.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On 2019-08-30 02:41, David wrote:
> For anyone shopping for a new printer for their computer.

> It is no surprise, but even at Sam's Club the ink cartridges are super
> expensive. In my opinion, ink is # 1 factor in choosing a new printer.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

[Jim Kennedy]

10-4. Maybe doing the call for papers?  Or something similar?  Promotion?  
Registration?

Do you think USFWS would want to sponsor (i.e. donate money)?  Or set up a 
table during the conference?  I don’t even know who there is working with karst 
critters any more. 

Thanks!

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2019, at 12:13 PM, Missy Singleton  wrote:
> 
> Please let me know what I can do from afar.  
> 
> Missy
>  
> From: Texascavers  on behalf of Crash 
> Kennedy 
> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 4:59 PM
> To: CaveTex 
> Subject: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium
>  
> Cavers,
> 
> Every two years we have a National Cave and Karst Management Symposium 
> (NCKMS) somewhere around the country.  This year's is in Bristol, Virginia 
> (http://nckms.org/).  The last one in Texas was in 1989 (New Braunfels).  I 
> hope to bring it back home in 2021.  But for that I will need some help.  
> 
> It's not a large conference, only about 150 people or so.  But we still need 
> to rent a venue, coordinate speakers and publish the Proceedings, plan and 
> run field trips, host a banquet, find corporate/agency sponsors, set up 
> Registration, advertise and advertise some more, and handle a hundred other 
> details.  I'm hosting a meeting at the Texas Speleological Center (14045 
> North Green Hills Loop, Austin, TX  78737-8619) at 1 pm on Sunday 8 September 
> for anyone interested in helping in any way.  What I want to do is to put 
> together a small organizing committee that will work on this for the next two 
> years, so that I can take a symposium bid back the the Steering Committee in 
> Bristol in October.  I realize that several of you are remote, or won't be 
> able to attend the meeting on such short notice, but are still willing to 
> help in some fashion.  That's great!  We'll find a spot for you, also.  
> Guidelines for hosting the event are on the NCKMS website at 
> http://nckms.org/host-a-symposium.
> 
> I'm thinking of having it in the San Marcos area.  We have so many things 
> going on there:  springs, salamanders, urbanization, bats, nearby show caves, 
> potential partner organizations --- the list goes on and on.  And it's a heck 
> of a lot cheaper venue than Austin or San Antonio.  But let's get our heads 
> together on the 8th and figure this out.  
> 
> Grab some lunch before you arrive or bring it with you.  The meeting may take 
> 2-3 hours.  I'll have a whiteboard, and record our ideas somehow.  Bring your 
> suggestions, your enthusiasm, and (most of all) yourselves.
> 
> Jim "Crash" Kennedy
> NCKMS Steering Committee Chair
> 512-663-2287
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

[Missy Singleton]

Please let me know what I can do from afar.  

Missy

From: Texascavers  on behalf of Crash 
Kennedy 
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 4:59 PM
To: CaveTex 
Subject: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

Cavers,

Every two years we have a National Cave and Karst Management Symposium (NCKMS) 
somewhere around the country.  This year's is in Bristol, Virginia 
(http://nckms.org/).  The last one in Texas was in 1989 (New Braunfels).  I 
hope to bring it back home in 2021.  But for that I will need some help.

It's not a large conference, only about 150 people or so.  But we still need to 
rent a venue, coordinate speakers and publish the Proceedings, plan and run 
field trips, host a banquet, find corporate/agency sponsors, set up 
Registration, advertise and advertise some more, and handle a hundred other 
details.  I'm hosting a meeting at the Texas Speleological Center (14045 North 
Green Hills Loop, Austin, TX  78737-8619) at 1 pm on Sunday 8 September for 
anyone interested in helping in any way.  What I want to do is to put together 
a small organizing committee that will work on this for the next two years, so 
that I can take a symposium bid back the the Steering Committee in Bristol in 
October.  I realize that several of you are remote, or won't be able to attend 
the meeting on such short notice, but are still willing to help in some 
fashion.  That's great!  We'll find a spot for you, also.  Guidelines for 
hosting the event are on the NCKMS website at http://nckms.org/host-a-symposium.

I'm thinking of having it in the San Marcos area.  We have so many things going 
on there:  springs, salamanders, urbanization, bats, nearby show caves, 
potential partner organizations --- the list goes on and on.  And it's a heck 
of a lot cheaper venue than Austin or San Antonio.  But let's get our heads 
together on the 8th and figure this out.

Grab some lunch before you arrive or bring it with you.  The meeting may take 
2-3 hours.  I'll have a whiteboard, and record our ideas somehow.  Bring your 
suggestions, your enthusiasm, and (most of all) yourselves.

Jim "Crash" Kennedy
NCKMS Steering Committee Chair
512-663-2287
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Printer Ink Cartridges

[mminton]

Back when I used an inkjet printer (now I use laser toner, which is also 
expensive) I got a very inexpensive universal ink refill kit at Costco. 
It had enough ink to refill dozens of times, and for less than the cost 
of a single cartridge. It worked with any brand, and even had 
instructions for refilling cartridges that we not intended to be 
refilled. It told how to drill a tiny hole into the cartridge ink 
reservoir, and came complete with the drill and plugs for the resulting 
hole. It worked great.


Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On 2019-08-30 02:41, David wrote:

For anyone shopping for a new printer for their computer.



It is no surprise, but even at Sam's Club the ink cartridges are super
expensive. In my opinion, ink is # 1 factor in choosing a new printer.

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] a toast to two beloved cavers

[Charles Loving]

Longtime caver from the sixties Terry Plemons passed on to the Great Cenote
in the sky this month. An ex PCV, put in a lot of time on the Bustamante
project and did a lot of caving in Texas and Mexico and was also a pillar
of the Caver Cooks for 20 years.

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 7:33 AM Jon Cradit 
wrote:

> David,
>
> Thanks for that reminder of those we’ve lost.
>
> That list is growing too fast.
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers  *On Behalf Of *
> David
> *Sent:* Friday, August 30, 2019 2:50 AM
> *To:* CaveTex 
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] a toast to two beloved cavers
>
>
>
> This month marks the 10th anniversary of the passing
>
> of Carl Ponebshek,
>
>
>
> and the 20th anniversary of the tragic caving accident
>
> of Christy Quintana.
>
>
>
> I am sure there are others worth mentioning.
>
>
>
> plus or minus a month, you could say something similar
>
> in memory of Joe Ivy, and Ed Alexander, too.
>
> ***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown
> senders***
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] a toast to two beloved cavers

[Jon Cradit]

David,
Thanks for that reminder of those we’ve lost.
That list is growing too fast.

Jon



From: Texascavers  On Behalf Of David
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2019 2:50 AM
To: CaveTex 
Subject: [Texascavers] a toast to two beloved cavers

This month marks the 10th anniversary of the passing
of Carl Ponebshek,

and the 20th anniversary of the tragic caving accident
of Christy Quintana.

I am sure there are others worth mentioning.

plus or minus a month, you could say something similar
in memory of Joe Ivy, and Ed Alexander, too.
***This is an external email - beware links & attachments from unknown 
senders***
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

[Jim Kennedy]

Deal!  Our first volunteer!  Thanks, Jerry!

Jim

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:07 PM, jerryat...@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I won’t be able to attend the planning meeting but I can help with the 
> Proceedings assembly and editing. 
> 
> Jerry Atkinson
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] National Cave and Karst Management Symposium

[jerryatkin]

I won’t be able to attend the planning meeting but I can help with the 
Proceedings assembly and editing. 

Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 29, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Crash Kennedy  wrote:
> 
> Cavers,
> 
> Every two years we have a National Cave and Karst Management Symposium 
> (NCKMS) somewhere around the country.  This year's is in Bristol, Virginia 
> (http://nckms.org/).  The last one in Texas was in 1989 (New Braunfels).  I 
> hope to bring it back home in 2021.  But for that I will need some help.  
> 
> It's not a large conference, only about 150 people or so.  But we still need 
> to rent a venue, coordinate speakers and publish the Proceedings, plan and 
> run field trips, host a banquet, find corporate/agency sponsors, set up 
> Registration, advertise and advertise some more, and handle a hundred other 
> details.  I'm hosting a meeting at the Texas Speleological Center (14045 
> North Green Hills Loop, Austin, TX  78737-8619) at 1 pm on Sunday 8 September 
> for anyone interested in helping in any way.  What I want to do is to put 
> together a small organizing committee that will work on this for the next two 
> years, so that I can take a symposium bid back the the Steering Committee in 
> Bristol in October.  I realize that several of you are remote, or won't be 
> able to attend the meeting on such short notice, but are still willing to 
> help in some fashion.  That's great!  We'll find a spot for you, also.  
> Guidelines for hosting the event are on the NCKMS website at 
> http://nckms.org/host-a-symposium.
> 
> I'm thinking of having it in the San Marcos area.  We have so many things 
> going on there:  springs, salamanders, urbanization, bats, nearby show caves, 
> potential partner organizations --- the list goes on and on.  And it's a heck 
> of a lot cheaper venue than Austin or San Antonio.  But let's get our heads 
> together on the 8th and figure this out.  
> 
> Grab some lunch before you arrive or bring it with you.  The meeting may take 
> 2-3 hours.  I'll have a whiteboard, and record our ideas somehow.  Bring your 
> suggestions, your enthusiasm, and (most of all) yourselves.
> 
> Jim "Crash" Kennedy
> NCKMS Steering Committee Chair
> 512-663-2287
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] 2019 TCR Caver Storytelling Contest

[John Brooks]

WTF ? Locklear has NO cave stories to speak of ?
This isn’t Arizona !

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Charles Loving  wrote:
> 
> Good
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 12:01 PM Bill Steele  
>> wrote:
>> Announcing the 2019 TCR Caver Storytelling Contest. Last year we started 
>> this and it was a big hit. Come with your practiced best tale. Five minute 
>> limit. A panel of impartial judges. A refund of your TCR registration money 
>> as the winning prize. Only one entry per caver. Will start around midnight 
>> after the Gary Franklin Band finishes their set. Entries will be videoed and 
>> posted on Facebook.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charlie Loving
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] 2019 TCR Caver Storytelling Contest

[Charles Loving]

Caving at Gilda's in Nuevo Laredo. Four intrepid covers and tweet ladies or
so. Drank a beer and X was coherased into taking a shower up stairs. The
squeals attracted the attention of A, B, and C and they went to the rescue.
Someone lost the soap and  they ran out of hot water... not that it was
important. We  all got wet and rinsed.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 7:13 PM Charles Loving  wrote:

> Good
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 12:01 PM Bill Steele 
> wrote:
>
>> Announcing the 2019 TCR Caver Storytelling Contest. Last year we started
>> this and it was a big hit. Come with your practiced best tale. Five minute
>> limit. A panel of impartial judges. A refund of your TCR registration money
>> as the winning prize. Only one entry per caver. Will start around midnight
>> after the Gary Franklin Band finishes their set. Entries will be videoed
>> and posted on Facebook.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] 2019 TCR Caver Storytelling Contest

[Charles Loving]

Good

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 12:01 PM Bill Steele 
wrote:

> Announcing the 2019 TCR Caver Storytelling Contest. Last year we started
> this and it was a big hit. Come with your practiced best tale. Five minute
> limit. A panel of impartial judges. A refund of your TCR registration money
> as the winning prize. Only one entry per caver. Will start around midnight
> after the Gary Franklin Band finishes their set. Entries will be videoed
> and posted on Facebook.
>
>
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Caver Storytelling Contest

[David]

Unfortunately, my best caving stories can never be told.

While most of the stories I tell here are about my transgressions, I have
had to withhold my best stories and will likely take them with me when I
pass.


I would like to here the details of Bill's adventure in Arizona.

Or what really happened to Gill ?

And did the unknown caver ever get his dynamite back from the law ?

And what became of The Sacred Bucket ?
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave and TCMA

[Charles Loving]

Wait. Isn't Powell's the longest cave in Texas? I thought Karst Walker says
so.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 7:11 AM  wrote:

> Cavers -
>
> We are excited to announce that Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA)
> and the owners of Honey Creek Springs Ranch (private property) have
> negotiated a formal access and monitoring agreement for Honey Creek Cave,
> the longest cave in Texas.
>
> Honey Creek Cave is a water cave with more than 21 miles of surveyed
> passage, often described as an underground river, and the resurgence serves
> as the headwaters for the flowing section of Honey Creek.  This surface
> stream is known for its superior water quality and unique ecosystem. Honey
> Creek (surface stream) is surrounded almost in its entirety by Honey Creek
> State Natural Area, a unit of TPWD.
>
> TCMA and our members will have four trips a year for scientific,
> exploration (survey), and limited recreational access.  In return, we will
> formalize our monitoring efforts on water quality, cave biota and the
> overall impacts the cave is experiencing. The surrounding area is
> experiencing an explosion of property development and faces significant
> risks from water pumping, waste water discharge, aggregate mining, and
> general impacts from increased human activity.
>
> Kurt Menking will serve as our inaugural project manager. Bill Steele will
> lead the renewed survey efforts. They have a combined experience of nearly
> 80 years with the cave.
>
> Many thanks to the owners of Honey Creek, Kurt Menking, Bill Steele, Andy
> Gluesenkamp, Greg Mosier, Ellie Thoene, Linda Palit and many others for
> their hard work maintaining land owner relationships these past many years.
>
> We are currently working with key folks to establish our trip schedule,
> access guidelines, monitoring protocols etc.
>
> Stay tuned for more information on how you can help TCMA fulfill our
> mission and visit Honey Creek Cave. For membership information please visit
> our website. For questions please contact i...@tcmacaves.org.
>
> Joe Ranzau
> President | Texas Cave Management Association
> www.tcmacaves.org
> 210.289.6839
>
> Permission is granted to distribute this announcement.
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] HCC and TCMA

[David]

That is the best news I have heard in years.


Whatever happened to the radio-location project for finding a potential dig
upstream of the shaft ?


It would be even more awesome if someone could workout a similar agreement
at Prassel Ranch Cave ( PRC ).

D.L.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave and TCMA

[Logan]

Excellent agreement!

On 8/26/2019 7:11 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote:

Cavers -

We are excited to announce that Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) and 
the owners of Honey Creek Springs Ranch (private property) have negotiated a 
formal access and monitoring agreement for Honey Creek Cave, the longest cave 
in Texas.

Honey Creek Cave is a water cave with more than 21 miles of surveyed passage, 
often described as an underground river, and the resurgence serves as the 
headwaters for the flowing section of Honey Creek.  This surface stream is 
known for its superior water quality and unique ecosystem. Honey Creek (surface 
stream) is surrounded almost in its entirety by Honey Creek State Natural Area, 
a unit of TPWD.

TCMA and our members will have four trips a year for scientific, exploration 
(survey), and limited recreational access.  In return, we will formalize our 
monitoring efforts on water quality, cave biota and the overall impacts the 
cave is experiencing. The surrounding area is experiencing an explosion of 
property development and faces significant risks from water pumping, waste 
water discharge, aggregate mining, and general impacts from increased human 
activity.

Kurt Menking will serve as our inaugural project manager. Bill Steele will lead 
the renewed survey efforts. They have a combined experience of nearly 80 years 
with the cave.

Many thanks to the owners of Honey Creek, Kurt Menking, Bill Steele, Andy 
Gluesenkamp, Greg Mosier, Ellie Thoene, Linda Palit and many others for their 
hard work maintaining land owner relationships these past many years.

We are currently working with key folks to establish our trip schedule, access 
guidelines, monitoring protocols etc.

Stay tuned for more information on how you can help TCMA fulfill our mission 
and visit Honey Creek Cave. For membership information please visit our 
website. For questions please contact i...@tcmacaves.org.

Joe Ranzau
President | Texas Cave Management Association
www.tcmacaves.org
210.289.6839

Permission is granted to distribute this announcement.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers


___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave and TCMA

[George Veni]

(Sent from my mobile phone)

George  Veni, PhD
Executive Director, National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI)
and
President, International Union of Speleology (UIS)

NCKRI address (primary)
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220 USA
Office: +575-887-5517
Mobile: +210-863-5919
Fax: +575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org

UIS address
Titov trg 2
Postojna, 6230 Slovenia


 Original message 
From: jran...@gmail.com
Date: 8/26/19 06:12 (GMT-07:00)
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave and TCMA

Cavers -

We are excited to announce that Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) and 
the owners of Honey Creek Springs Ranch (private property) have negotiated a 
formal access and monitoring agreement for Honey Creek Cave, the longest cave 
in Texas.

Honey Creek Cave is a water cave with more than 21 miles of surveyed passage, 
often described as an underground river, and the resurgence serves as the 
headwaters for the flowing section of Honey Creek.  This surface stream is 
known for its superior water quality and unique ecosystem. Honey Creek (surface 
stream) is surrounded almost in its entirety by Honey Creek State Natural Area, 
a unit of TPWD.

TCMA and our members will have four trips a year for scientific, exploration 
(survey), and limited recreational access.  In return, we will formalize our 
monitoring efforts on water quality, cave biota and the overall impacts the 
cave is experiencing. The surrounding area is experiencing an explosion of 
property development and faces significant risks from water pumping, waste 
water discharge, aggregate mining, and general impacts from increased human 
activity.

Kurt Menking will serve as our inaugural project manager. Bill Steele will lead 
the renewed survey efforts. They have a combined experience of nearly 80 years 
with the cave.

Many thanks to the owners of Honey Creek, Kurt Menking, Bill Steele, Andy 
Gluesenkamp, Greg Mosier, Ellie Thoene, Linda Palit and many others for their 
hard work maintaining land owner relationships these past many years.

We are currently working with key folks to establish our trip schedule, access 
guidelines, monitoring protocols etc.

Stay tuned for more information on how you can help TCMA fulfill our mission 
and visit Honey Creek Cave. For membership information please visit our 
website. For questions please contact i...@tcmacaves.org.

Joe Ranzau
President | Texas Cave Management Association
www.tcmacaves.org
210.289.6839

Permission is granted to distribute this announcement.
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Honey Creek Cave and TCMA

[Andrew Gluesenkamp]

Congratulations, that’s a big step forward.  I’m sure Joyce told you about the 
work I am doing in the cave (fish collections downstream of WM, 2-3x/year). I’m 
more than happy to share my data with TCMA and assist with any biological 
monitoring. 
Andy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2019, at 7:11 AM, jran...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Cavers -
> 
> We are excited to announce that Texas Cave Management Association (TCMA) and 
> the owners of Honey Creek Springs Ranch (private property) have negotiated a 
> formal access and monitoring agreement for Honey Creek Cave, the longest cave 
> in Texas.  
> 
> Honey Creek Cave is a water cave with more than 21 miles of surveyed passage, 
> often described as an underground river, and the resurgence serves as the 
> headwaters for the flowing section of Honey Creek.  This surface stream is 
> known for its superior water quality and unique ecosystem. Honey Creek 
> (surface stream) is surrounded almost in its entirety by Honey Creek State 
> Natural Area, a unit of TPWD. 
> 
> TCMA and our members will have four trips a year for scientific, exploration 
> (survey), and limited recreational access.  In return, we will formalize our 
> monitoring efforts on water quality, cave biota and the overall impacts the 
> cave is experiencing. The surrounding area is experiencing an explosion of 
> property development and faces significant risks from water pumping, waste 
> water discharge, aggregate mining, and general impacts from increased human 
> activity. 
> 
> Kurt Menking will serve as our inaugural project manager. Bill Steele will 
> lead the renewed survey efforts. They have a combined experience of nearly 80 
> years with the cave. 
> 
> Many thanks to the owners of Honey Creek, Kurt Menking, Bill Steele, Andy 
> Gluesenkamp, Greg Mosier, Ellie Thoene, Linda Palit and many others for their 
> hard work maintaining land owner relationships these past many years. 
> 
> We are currently working with key folks to establish our trip schedule, 
> access guidelines, monitoring protocols etc. 
> 
> Stay tuned for more information on how you can help TCMA fulfill our mission 
> and visit Honey Creek Cave. For membership information please visit our 
> website. For questions please contact i...@tcmacaves.org. 
> 
> Joe Ranzau
> President | Texas Cave Management Association
> www.tcmacaves.org
> 210.289.6839
> 
> Permission is granted to distribute this announcement. 
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Logan's Vision

[Charles Loving]

Logan's vision of daring in the name of interplanetary justice.

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 2:55 PM Dale Pate  wrote:

> Sorry meant to put my name on the last email.
>
> Dale Pate
> ___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] Photos of Don and Ernie in Huautla

[William R. Elliott]

Thanks Mark! Will use these.

*William R. (Bill) Elliott*

*speodes...@gmail.com *

573-291-5093 cell


On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 9:17 PM  wrote:

> While going through some old Huautla photos I came up with several of
> Don Broussard and Ernie Garza, taken by various expedition team members
> over recent years. See attached file.
>
> Mark Minton___
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] The owner of Honey Creek Cave's public statement at Tuesday's TCEQ public hearing

[gpassmore]

The sewage project is for Silesia Properties, that is part of a cluster of over 
a dozen companies. I have a lot of information on them.  If you are interested 
contact me directly. I am reluctant to post details about the people behind 
this project in a broad forum.  I am against this sewage dump proposal 
obviously… 
___
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers

Re: [Texascavers] The owner of Honey Creek Cave's public statement at Tuesday's TCEQ public hearing

[Jay Jorden]

Amazing - Joyce's statement is a passionate, well-documented rebuke of the
development plan and our regulatory failings. While it's a great read, I am
saddened to the core at the same time. Texans who care already know how
these hearings barely pay lip service to environmental concerns (probably
because if our continuing one-party rule by politicians who are *always* in
developers' pockets). The Edwards alliance states that this permit is
expected to be approved.
That alone is shocking to me, along with how aquifer impact isn't a winning
argument in this case. If we were in a more eco-savvy state, developments
might be forced to build with less density, composting toilets,
xeriscaping, etc. - or not build at all.
This is a big deal for cavers, with huge implications for Texas' longest
cave.
It would be interesting to know where this money is coming from:
out-of-state carpetbaggers taking advantage of our lax regs? Whoever they
are, I'll be donating to the fight against them.

On Fri, Aug 23, 2019, 5:01 PM Bill Steele  wrote:

> Tuesday evening I attended the Texas Commission on Water Quality (TCEQ)
> public hearing in Bulverde regarding a developer's application to build
> four houses per acre, many hundreds of new homes, in the Honey Creek
> drainage basin and be able to dump 500,000 of treated sewage into Honey
> Creek, effluent which will at times of high water make its way into the
> pristine environment of Texas' longest cave. Comments were made by several
> Texas cavers, including Joe Ransau, Kurt Menking, Linda Palit, Sandy
> Mosier, Allan Cobb, Andy Glusenkamp, and me. To me, the most moving comment
> made was that by the cave's owner, and a good friend to our caving
> community, Joyce Moore. Here it is in its entirety.
>
> Bill Steele   speleoste...@aol.com
>
>
> Honey Creek Discharge Permit Comments
>
> from Honey Creek Spring Ranch
>
> by Joyce Moore
>
>
>
> My name is Joyce Gass Moore. I am a 5th-generation Texas, and a 5th-generation
> co-owner of Honey Creek Spring Ranch.  Our ranch is located in far
> western Comal County, and downstream of a proposed Silesia properties
> development known as Honey Creek Ranch. And so I speak to you today not
> only as an affected landowner, but as a very concerned citizen.
>
> When my son and nephew take over the management of Honey Creek Spring
> Ranch, it will represent 6 generations of continuous family ownership and a
> legacy of stewardship dating back to 1846 when my ancestors first set foot
> on Texas soil. As German-immigrants, my family was one of only a few who
> homesteaded western Comal County—3 of whom (all neighbors) applied for land
> deeds on the same day in 1871. Because the waters of Honey Creek were so
> important to the settlement of Comal County, our entire ranch was
> recognized as a State Historic Site by the Texas Historical Commission; and
> in 2018 was Listed in the National Register of Historic Places by the U.S.
> Department of the Interior National Park Service.
>
> My ancestors knew hardship and fought to protect their land and Honey
> Creek.  They carved the ranch out of cedar and live oak covered hills,
> suffered thru drought, disease, and bank failures, and sacrificed
> everything they had to nurture, protect, and improve the land they loved.
> And now—150 years later, once again we are threatened by those who seek to
> cash in on the land in order to capitalize on its value. Despite what they
> may tell you, these folks do not hold the best interest of the land or its
> natural resources at heart. This is very evident in the description of the
> development being planned. My ancestors would be so deeply disappointed in
> what western Comal County has become, and in the landowners, who are
> allowing this to happen.
>
> The Texas Hill Country is known for its aesthetic beauty—people have been
> drawn to this area for generations—drawn to its crystal-clear streams and
> scenic vistas. Unfortunately, all this beauty rests atop a particularly
> fragile ecosystem—a calcareous limestone substrate known as *karst*.
> Although not a geologist or a hydrologist, I do understand how infiltration
> works—how water moves thru a karst system. Surface recharge features
> (cracks, fissures, pits, sumps) are all designed to move water quickly into
> subterranean acquifers (the Edwards, the Trinity, and Cow Creek are all
> examples). These aquifers provide the drinking water for millions of
> people. Springs flowing from these same aquifers provide critical habitat
> to a unique group of plant and animal species—many of which are found only
> in the most protected streams and riparian areas of Central Texas. Until
> this proposed development and wastewater discharge became a possibility,
> Honey Creek was one of the most protected aquatic systems in the Hill
> Country.
>
> The number of these pristine riparian systems are shrinking rapidly—most
> of it due to rampant and unregulated development over the recharge area,
> and the failure of 

Re: [Texascavers] The owner of Honey Creek Cave's public statement at Tuesday's TCEQ public hearing

[Andrew Gluesenkamp]

“Gluesenkamp”

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 23, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Bill Steele  wrote:
> 
> Tuesday evening I attended the Texas Commission on Water Quality (TCEQ) 
> public hearing in Bulverde regarding a developer's application to build four 
> houses per acre, many hundreds of new homes, in the Honey Creek drainage 
> basin and be able to dump 500,000 of treated sewage into Honey Creek, 
> effluent which will at times of high water make its way into the pristine 
> environment of Texas' longest cave. Comments were made by several Texas 
> cavers, including Joe Ransau, Kurt Menking, Linda Palit, Sandy Mosier, Allan 
> Cobb, Andy Glusenkamp, and me. To me, the most moving comment made was that 
> by the cave's owner, and a good friend to our caving community, Joyce Moore. 
> Here it is in its entirety. 
> 
> Bill Steele   speleoste...@aol.com
> 
> 
> 
> Honey Creek Discharge Permit Comments
> 
> from Honey Creek Spring Ranch
> 
> by Joyce Moore
> 
>  
> 
> My name is Joyce Gass Moore. I am a 5th-generation Texas, and a 
> 5th-generation co-owner of Honey Creek Spring Ranch.  Our ranch is located in 
> far western Comal County, and downstream of a proposed Silesia properties 
> development known as Honey Creek Ranch. And so I speak to you today not only 
> as an affected landowner, but as a very concerned citizen.
> 
> When my son and nephew take over the management of Honey Creek Spring Ranch, 
> it will represent 6 generations of continuous family ownership and a legacy 
> of stewardship dating back to 1846 when my ancestors first set foot on Texas 
> soil. As German-immigrants, my family was one of only a few who homesteaded 
> western Comal County—3 of whom (all neighbors) applied for land deeds on the 
> same day in 1871. Because the waters of Honey Creek were so important to the 
> settlement of Comal County, our entire ranch was recognized as a State 
> Historic Site by the Texas Historical Commission; and in 2018 was Listed in 
> the National Register of Historic Places by the U.S. Department of the 
> Interior National Park Service.
> 
> My ancestors knew hardship and fought to protect their land and Honey Creek.  
> They carved the ranch out of cedar and live oak covered hills, suffered thru 
> drought, disease, and bank failures, and sacrificed everything they had to 
> nurture, protect, and improve the land they loved. And now—150 years later, 
> once again we are threatened by those who seek to cash in on the land in 
> order to capitalize on its value. Despite what they may tell you, these folks 
> do not hold the best interest of the land or its natural resources at heart. 
> This is very evident in the description of the development being planned. My 
> ancestors would be so deeply disappointed in what western Comal County has 
> become, and in the landowners, who are allowing this to happen.
> 
> The Texas Hill Country is known for its aesthetic beauty—people have been 
> drawn to this area for generations—drawn to its crystal-clear streams and 
> scenic vistas. Unfortunately, all this beauty rests atop a particularly 
> fragile ecosystem—a calcareous limestone substrate known as karst. Although 
> not a geologist or a hydrologist, I do understand how infiltration works—how 
> water moves thru a karst system. Surface recharge features (cracks, fissures, 
> pits, sumps) are all designed to move water quickly into subterranean 
> acquifers (the Edwards, the Trinity, and Cow Creek are all examples). These 
> aquifers provide the drinking water for millions of people. Springs flowing 
> from these same aquifers provide critical habitat to a unique group of plant 
> and animal species—many of which are found only in the most protected streams 
> and riparian areas of Central Texas. Until this proposed development and 
> wastewater discharge became a possibility, Honey Creek was one of the most 
> protected aquatic systems in the Hill Country.
> 
> The number of these pristine riparian systems are shrinking rapidly—most of 
> it due to rampant and unregulated development over the recharge area, and the 
> failure of an already-broken system intended to regulate the disposal of 
> wastewater. I think it very ironic that the name chosen for the area by my 
> ancestors (Honey Creek) is the same name chosen by newcomers to become their 
> sales pitch.  It is the same aquatic system that will be destroyed if this 
> Honey Creek Ranch permit is approved.
> 
> Treated effluent discharged into a tributary of Honey Creek will absolutely, 
> negatively impact water quality--primarily through significant increases of 
> Nitrogen and Phosphate levels. These nutrients will encourage the growth of 
> algae and will degrade the recreational and aesthetic value of Honey Creek. 
> Decaying mats of algae will impact Dissolved Oxygen levels and will almost 
> certainly have a devastating effect on aquatic life.  The introduction of 
> Pharmaceuticals and Personal Care Products contained in the effluent will 
>