Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Jerry Krinock
On 2010 Feb 23, at 14:52, Kyle Sluder wrote: > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Jerry Krinock wrote: >> Furthermore, I've never been able to find any documentation stating that >> Cocoa is required to invoke the set mutator method(s). Invoking the >> setEmployees: method, which both Ken and I

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread Steve Christensen
On Feb 23, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Charles Srstka wrote: On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Steve Christensen wrote: As others have already pointed out, it's your choice of whether or not to support a deprecated API method. When I decide to use OS version-specific API methods, I code as follows. The be

Re: Binding to a released object results in crash - how do find the observer?

2010-02-23 Thread Ken Thomases
On Feb 23, 2010, at 7:25 PM, David Hoerl wrote: > I had an issue (since resolved) where an object set a property to nil > directly, without providing KVO notification. Later, the app crashed: > > Running with debug and Zombies enabled got me here: -[NSKeyValueObservance > retain]: message sent

Binding to a released object results in crash - how do find the observer?

2010-02-23 Thread David Hoerl
I had an issue (since resolved) where an object set a property to nil directly, without providing KVO notification. Later, the app crashed: Running with debug and Zombies enabled got me here: -[NSKeyValueObservance retain]: message sent to deallocated instance In the end, I discovered that if

Re: 1/2 billion logs to Console, how to get rid of them?

2010-02-23 Thread Greg Parker
On Feb 23, 2010, at 3:14 PM, lbland wrote: > I made a programing mistake (or something made a mistake) and now I have a > computer with 1/2 billion log lines to Console. I: > > echo "" > /var/log/system.log > > but the Console app still sees the log lines in the DATABASE SEARCHES node of > its

Re: iPhone app to Flash over wifi

2010-02-23 Thread Eric E. Dolecki
Sorry I didn't know about that other list. Flash can open a socket - the projector or AIR app - it's going to be local just for simulations and never on a public web server. On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Jens Alfke wrote: > > On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Eric E. Dolecki wrote: > > Does anyon

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Nick Zitzmann
On Feb 23, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Joel May wrote: > Thanks for the info about drawing in a different thread. I won't waste my > time and sanity. I guess I need to figure out how to speed up the drawing > instead and keep it in the main thread. How often does your app flush its changes? If it's mo

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Joel May
OK. I'm agreeing with you about not doing bad stuff. Thanks for the info about drawing in a different thread. I won't waste my time and sanity. I guess I need to figure out how to speed up the drawing instead and keep it in the main thread. I've switched from QuickDraw to Quarz, and performa

Re: 1/2 billion logs to Console, how to get rid of them?

2010-02-23 Thread Jens Alfke
On Feb 23, 2010, at 3:14 PM, lbland wrote: I made a programing mistake (or something made a mistake) and now I have a computer with 1/2 billion log lines to Console. I: echo "" > /var/log/system.log but the Console app still sees the log lines in the DATABASE SEARCHES node of its log tree.

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread Charles Srstka
On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Steve Christensen wrote: > As others have already pointed out, it's your choice of whether or not to > support a deprecated API method. When I decide to use OS version-specific API > methods, I code as follows. The benefit is that, when you decide to support a > min

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Joel May
Oh yeah. I've actually already done that with some other cocoa calls. I forgot. I have deploy sdk = 10.4 and base sdk = 10.5 (will change to 10.6). Thanks, Joel On Feb 23, 2010, at 4:30 PM, Jean-Daniel Dupas wrote: > You don't have to build a separate version. Just test for method availabil

1/2 billion logs to Console, how to get rid of them?

2010-02-23 Thread lbland
hi- I made a programing mistake (or something made a mistake) and now I have a computer with 1/2 billion log lines to Console. I: echo "" > /var/log/system.log but the Console app still sees the log lines in the DATABASE SEARCHES node of its log tree. Is there a way to flush the log that the

Re: iPhone app to Flash over wifi

2010-02-23 Thread Jens Alfke
On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Eric E. Dolecki wrote: Does anyone have any experience having an iPhone application talk to a Flash app over Wifi? I am looking for simple projects that shows a string going to and from. I know there is Bonjour, etc. but networking is a big topic that I am not

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Kyle Sluder
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Jerry Krinock wrote: > Furthermore, I've never been able to find any documentation stating that > Cocoa is required to invoke the set mutator method(s).  Invoking the > setEmployees: method, which both Ken and I have noted *does* happen, is a > KVC-compliant tec

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Nick Zitzmann
On Feb 23, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Joel May wrote: > Question about NSThread seeing how GetKeys(), etc. are not thread safe: If I > increase the priority of the main thread, then move the view draw cgcontext > updates to a lower priority thread, is that a good idea? Will increasing > the priority

iPhone app to Flash over wifi

2010-02-23 Thread Eric E. Dolecki
Does anyone have any experience having an iPhone application talk to a Flash app over Wifi? I am looking for simple projects that shows a string going to and from. I know there is Bonjour, etc. but networking is a big topic that I am not well-versed in (yet). Eric _

Re: 'ditto' troubles

2010-02-23 Thread Greg Guerin
Steve Cronin wrote: At the time the user requests I initiate an NSTask and deploy: NSTask *unzipTask=[[NSTask alloc] init]; [unzipTask setLaunchPath:@"/usr/bin/ditto"]; [unzipTask setArguments:[NSArray arrayWithObjects:@"-x",@"- k",sourcePath,targetPath,nil]]; The problem is

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Joel May
Hey Ken, I never actually used that preference before. Dumb me. I'm adding leopard docs now. Thanks, Joel On Feb 23, 2010, at 6:08 AM, Ken Thomases wrote: > On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:19 AM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > >> On Feb 22, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Joel May wrote: >> >>> If High Level Toolkit i

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Jerry Krinock
On 2010 Feb 23, at 13:17, mmalc Crawford wrote: > > > Custom relationship set mutator methods are not invoked by an array controller > Problem: You

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Jean-Daniel Dupas
You don't have to build a separate version. Just test for method availability at runtime: if ([NSEvent respondsToSelector:@selector(pressedMouseButtons)]) return [NSEvent pressedMouseButtons]; else // do it the old way. Le 23 févr. 2010 à 23:18, Joel May a écrit : > Hey Eric,

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Joel May
Nick, Thanks for clarifying. I've been uncomfortable with using Carbon. My guts are more settled now. Question about NSThread seeing how GetKeys(), etc. are not thread safe: If I increase the priority of the main thread, then move the view draw cgcontext updates to a lower priority thread,

Re: 'ditto' troubles

2010-02-23 Thread Steve Cronin
Fritz; Thanks for the tip. Things so obvious after clarity has improved. The brain can be its own worst enemy… Anyway the deployed result was simply an empty directory containing the valid application. Reworking the original build step to remove the --keepParent appears to have done the trick…

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Ken Tabb
On 23 Feb 2010, at 9:17, mmalc Crawford wrote: > Data/Articles/cdTroubleshooting.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002320-SW3> > > Custom relationship set mutator methods are not invoked by an array controller > Problem: Yo

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Joel May
Hey Eric, This is very helpful. I'll take a look at [NSEvent pressedMouseButtons]. I still have to support tiger and leopard, but I'll build a separate snow leopard version and #ifdef that call in there. I've had the heebie-jeebies about including the Carbon framework in my application. But

Re: Sheet not appearing normally...the first time

2010-02-23 Thread Jean-Henri Duteau
Duouh! And here's the relevant line from the sample app that I missed when I made the second sheet: Switch off its Visible at Launch flag. Thanks, Jean On 2010-02-23, at 3:12 PM, Kevin Wojniak wrote: > See if the Visible at launch checkbox is enabled in the nib for your window. > If so, turn

Re: Sheet not appearing normally...the first time

2010-02-23 Thread Kevin Wojniak
See if the Visible at launch checkbox is enabled in the nib for your window. If so, turn it off. Kevin On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Jean-Henri Duteau wrote: > I have built a document-based application that brings up two sheets. I > followed Apple's NSPersistentDocument sample app. For the f

Re: NSPredicateEditor losing nextKeyView

2010-02-23 Thread Ashley Clark
On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Trygve Inda wrote: >> On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Trygve Inda wrote: >> >>> In my sheet, I have a "name" NSTextField and an NSPredicateEditor. >>> Initially, the tab key works to jump between my name field and the first >>> match field in the predicate editor. >>> >

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread mmalc Crawford
On Feb 22, 2010, at 2:59 pm, Ken Tabb wrote: > Distilling my problem down into the Department & Employees example, both are > custom NSManagedObject subclasses, each with an inverse to-many / to-one > relationship as you'd expect. My problem is that Department's custom > -awakeFromInsert gets

Sheet not appearing normally...the first time

2010-02-23 Thread Jean-Henri Duteau
I have built a document-based application that brings up two sheets. I followed Apple's NSPersistentDocument sample app. For the first sheet, everything works fine. I click on my "Add Team" button and the Team sheet appears perfectly. For the second sheet, everything almost works fine. The

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Quincey Morris
On Feb 23, 2010, at 11:08, Ken Tabb wrote: > These last 2 theories were what I presumed, but you know how desperate the > theories start to become after a while :) Yeah, I know how that goes. It sounds like it's bug reporter time. You're leveraging a "free" method of getting your relationships

Re: 'ditto' troubles

2010-02-23 Thread Fritz Anderson
On 23 Feb 2010, at 2:11 PM, Steve Cronin wrote: > I have all of this working including a build step that compresses the > appropriate release version of Helper > (/usr/bin/ditto -c -k --sequesterRsrc --keepParent) > > At the time the user requests I initiate an NSTask and deploy: > NSTask

Re: NSPredicateEditor losing nextKeyView

2010-02-23 Thread Trygve Inda
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 9:50 PM, Trygve Inda wrote: > >> In my sheet, I have a "name" NSTextField and an NSPredicateEditor. >> Initially, the tab key works to jump between my name field and the first >> match field in the predicate editor. >> >> However, after changing any of the menus in the line

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread Steve Christensen
On Feb 23, 2010, at 2:09 AM, charisse napeÿf1as wrote: I am not sure if this problem has already been submitted but how do I define two APIs, one that is supported from Leopard down and another that is only supported in Snow Leopard if I only have one binary for all OSes? Below is a sni

'ditto' troubles

2010-02-23 Thread Steve Cronin
Folks; This is a Mac application. I have a helper app that I want to transport inside of a larger app (Mother) At the user's discretion I want to deploy the helper app The helper app CAN be called by AppleScript. In order to help with Mother's file size and inadvertent calling of Helper (when n

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Ken Tabb
On 23 Feb 2010, at 6:19, Quincey Morris wrote: >> Adding is via a button going to an Employee array controller's -add. In the >> interface there are 2 array controllers (1 for Departments, 1 for >> Employees). The Employees controller is set to use the selection in the >> Departments controlle

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread Mark Ritchie
Hi Yogin! On 22/Feb/2010, at 10:33 PM, yogin bhargava wrote: > I dont want to allow the user to quit my application except from the activity > monitor. Ok, I'm curious, in what circumstance would this workflow be obvious to the user of your application? I know that personally, I would be secure

Re: Does CAAnimationGroup groups animations for a single layer?

2010-02-23 Thread Gustavo Pizano
I see. Thanks for the explanation.. I will give it a try now. Gustavo On Feb 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, David Duncan wrote: > On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Gustavo Pizano wrote: > >>> Additionally, rather than changing the anchorPoint do your animation based >>> on the center of the view instead

Re: Does CAAnimationGroup groups animations for a single layer?

2010-02-23 Thread David Duncan
On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:15 AM, Gustavo Pizano wrote: >> Additionally, rather than changing the anchorPoint do your animation based >> on the center of the view instead of it's frame's origin (which will also >> continue to work as you expect should you need to do an animation on a layer >> that

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Quincey Morris
On Feb 23, 2010, at 01:20, Ken Tabb wrote: > Adding is via a button going to an Employee array controller's -add. In the > interface there are 2 array controllers (1 for Departments, 1 for Employees). > The Employees controller is set to use the selection in the Departments > controller (i.e. s

Re: -commitEditing NSAlert not always presented as a sheet

2010-02-23 Thread Kyle Sluder
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:05 AM, Keith Duncan wrote: > However, if I click my 'Done' button, which first attempts to -commitEditing > for the hosting view controller, and will then close the hosting child window > if -commitEditing returns YES; the error is presented as a floating window - > th

Re: Does CAAnimationGroup groups animations for a single layer?

2010-02-23 Thread Gustavo Pizano
Duncan Hi. I see... mm. Ok.. then I will change it to CABasicAnimation, and I will handle the multiple call back. > Additionally, rather than changing the anchorPoint do your animation based > on the center of the view instead of it's frame's origin (which will also > continue to work as you

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Kyle Sluder
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Sean McBride wrote: > Even that's an exaggeration.  The HIThemeDraw... APIs are not > deprecated, and they are the only way to draw bits of standard UI > elements.  For example, I have a custom NSCell that uses HIThemeDrawTrack > () to draw a customised slider.  Th

Re: Does CAAnimationGroup groups animations for a single layer?

2010-02-23 Thread David Duncan
On Feb 23, 2010, at 6:45 AM, Gustavo Pizano wrote: > //Create the layers of the buttons _moviesButton is one of the UIButtons > CALayer * moviesLayer = _moviesButton.layer; > moviesLayer.anchorPoint = CGPointMake(0.0f, 0.0f); > CAKeyframeAnimation * animatedButonsAnimation = [CAK

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Ken Tabb
Hi Jeffrey, well in the model, the Department's relationship is defined as 'employees', and when I copy to clipboard from the model (as per Xcode's Design -> Data Model -> copy to clipboard), everything in the boilerplate code is "employees" (plural). If I edit them to - addEmployeeObject

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Jeffrey Oleander
> On Tue, 2010/02/23, Ken Tabb wrote: > From: Ken Tabb > Subject: Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked > To: "Quincey Morris" > Cc: "cocoa-dev" > Date: Tuesday, 2010 February 23, 03:20 AM > Adding is via a button going to an > Employee array controller's -add. In

Re: CGContextEOFillPath not working .. ? [Solved]

2010-02-23 Thread Gustavo Pizano
Ok it works, this is what I did: CGContextBeginPath(ctx); ... /.//create the outter ... CGContextClosePath(ctx); ... ... //Create the inner path CGContextClosePath(ctx); CGContextSetFillColorWithColor(ctx, CGColorCreateGenericRGB(0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f)); CGContextEOFillPath(ctx); //Rec

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread Andreas Mayer
Am 23.02.2010 um 16:13 Uhr schrieb Alex Kac: I think its better to let the user’s themselves admonish the developer. I think it's better - for developer and users - to tell new developers up front if something they are about to do is wrong. On the other hand, I realize there are (too man

custom NSActionCell in an NSTableView that uses Cocoa Bindings

2010-02-23 Thread Sean McBride
Hi all, I'm trying to make a custom NSActionCell that works in an NSTableView that in turn uses Cocoa Bindings. It's mostly working, except... when the user clicks my cell, changes are not getting back to the model side. 1) Does an NSCell subclass need code to participate in the bindings archite

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread lbland
hi- On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Paul Sanders wrote: > However, to answer the question, one can subclass NSApplication, override > [NSApplication terminate] and not call super. That doesn't get rid of the > menu item, but it does prevent it from quitting the app. And I guess you > might bee

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Sean McBride
On 2/23/10 12:19 AM, Nick Zitzmann said: >> The Carbon64BitGuide.pdf explains how the carbon api's have been >updated for 64 bit. But I thought carbon was dead in 64 bit and Snow >Leopard. What is the deal? > >No, Carbon is not dead. The only parts of Carbon that are dead are the >drawing compon

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread Alex Kac
I might’ve over-reacted a bit on Dave’s post as it wasn’t really bad and I get that many times we do want to dissuade people from doing things that are not user-friendly, but I’ve seen devs chased away too often. I think its better to let the user’s themselves admonish the developer. On Feb 23,

-commitEditing NSAlert not always presented as a sheet

2010-02-23 Thread Keith Duncan
I have a text field whose value is bound to a property which is validated. When editing the field and hitting enter, if the value fails to validate the error is presented as a sheet - this is the desired behaviour. However, if I click my 'Done' button, which first attempts to -commitEditing for

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread Paul Sanders
I don't think he meant it to be taken literally! I took it as a tongue-in-cheek way to ask why the OP wants to do this. I found it rather amusing. However, to answer the question, one can subclass NSApplication, override [NSApplication terminate] and not call super. That doesn't get rid of t

Does CAAnimationGroup groups animations for a single layer?

2010-02-23 Thread Gustavo Pizano
Hello all. I have 5 UIButtons., now Im attempting to make a "fly-in" when the application launch, Im positioning the buttons outside the view's frame, and creating a CGPathRef for each button's path I want them to follow. So for instance, for one button Im doing the following: //movRect exists

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread Steven Degutis
As I mentioned before, doing this is not supported by Apple. What kind of app are you creating, and why exactly are you under the belief that users must not be able to quit it from the Dock? -Steven On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 1:33 AM, yogin bhargava wrote: > I dont want to allow the user to quit my

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread Alex Kac
No offense but that type of attitude and comment is unhelpful and one reason cocoa devs sometimes have a not-so-nice reputation. I can think of several types of apps that need this. Kiosk apps, security apps, corporate apps, and so forth. I beg of you to stick to the technical on this list

Re: Removing quit button from dock menu

2010-02-23 Thread Dave Carrigan
On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:33 PM, yogin bhargava wrote: > I dont want to allow the user to quit my application except from the > activity monitor. I have removed the controls for apple+Q button and menu You need to explain to us why you hate your users so much. _

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread Paul Sanders
I would say that if you have gone to the trouble to code it both ways I would keep that code and just add the runtime check people have recommended. I think the issue of deprecated API's is a tricky one. When they might go away seems to depend on whom you ask, and there's always the chance th

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread Andreas Mayer
Am 23.02.2010 um 14:41 Uhr schrieb charisse napeÿf1as: But is it still safe to use depracated APIs? Did you read the document I pointed you to? I quote: "Note: Deprecation does not mean the immediate deletion of an interface from a framework or library. It is simply a way to flag in

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread charisse napeÿfffff1as
I guess so. But is it still safe to use depracated APIs? From: Andreas Mayer To: cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 20:29:47 Subject: Re: Deprecated APIs Am 23.02.2010 um 11:09 Uhr schrieb charisse napeÿf1as: > I am not sure if t

Re: Help with creating CustomViews

2010-02-23 Thread Steven Degutis
You're on the right track with NSViewController. Make an NSViewController and a XIB specifically for this view controller. Set the -view outlet in your NIB and make sure you name the File's Owner the same as your NSViewController subclass. Make sure your initializer mentions the name of the correct

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Jean-Daniel Dupas
Le 23 févr. 2010 à 13:08, Ken Thomases a écrit : > On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:19 AM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > >> On Feb 22, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Joel May wrote: >> >>> If High Level Toolkit is ok, then why doesn't it appear in the docs. If I >>> search the Mac OS X Reference Library, it does not get

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread Andreas Mayer
Am 23.02.2010 um 11:09 Uhr schrieb charisse napeÿf1as: I am not sure if this problem has already been submitted but how do I define two APIs, one that is supported from Leopard down and another that is only supported in Snow Leopard if I only have one binary for all OSes? See http://d

Re: High Level Toolkit -- is it obsolete or not?

2010-02-23 Thread Ken Thomases
On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:19 AM, Nick Zitzmann wrote: > On Feb 22, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Joel May wrote: > >> If High Level Toolkit is ok, then why doesn't it appear in the docs. If I >> search the Mac OS X Reference Library, it does not get the same treatment >> that the cocoa api gets. The only pl

Re: Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread Paul Sanders
Test the framework version at runtime. I use the Gestalt functions, personally. http://cocoadevcentral.com/articles/67.php >From the desk of the great Nick Zitzmann himself :) Paul Sanders. - Original Message - From: "charisse napeÿf1as" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010

Deprecated APIs

2010-02-23 Thread charisse napeÿfffff1as
Hello, I am not sure if this problem has already been submitted but how do I define two APIs, one that is supported from Leopard down and another that is only supported in Snow Leopard if I only have one binary for all OSes? Below is a snippet of my code // below should be performed if the OS

Re: Core Data: Custom to-many relationship setter not being invoked

2010-02-23 Thread Ken Tabb
Adding is via a button going to an Employee array controller's -add. In the interface there are 2 array controllers (1 for Departments, 1 for Employees). The Employees controller is set to use the selection in the Departments controller (i.e. showing the subset belonging to the selected dep

Re: progressbar animation not working on snow leopard

2010-02-23 Thread Quincey Morris
On Feb 23, 2010, at 00:17, yogin bhargava wrote: > I have a progress bar in my app which is being animated using binding. > Everything works fine with leopard but the animation does not happen on snow > leopard. I tried a demo app with only progress bar in it on leopard and that > animated on

progressbar animation not working on snow leopard

2010-02-23 Thread yogin bhargava
Hi all, I have a progress bar in my app which is being animated using binding. Everything works fine with leopard but the animation does not happen on snow leopard. I tried a demo app with only progress bar in it on leopard and that animated on both leopard and SL.Any suggestions for this. T