RE: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

SS is defined in 97.1. ??? --- TITLE 47 - TELECOMMUNICATION CHAPTER I - FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION SUBCHAPTER D - SAFETY AND SPECIAL RADIO SERVICES PART 97 - AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE subpart a - GENERAL PROVISIONS 97.1 - Basis and purpose.

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

So the question I closed with; Where did I QSB into the noise. How could I improve. I think understanding the fundamentals will take out a lot of the hocus pocus about some systems, and if we had more open source systems, let the community mind advance the state of the art. Lester B Veenstra M

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Well I started out life as a Physicist, but had to specialize to find real work HI Lester B Veenstra MØYCM K1YCM les...@veenstras.com m0...@veenstras.com k1...@veenstras.com US Postal A

Re: [digitalradio] Contestia Digital Mode Freqs

MixW has a contestia.dll, but not (yet) RSIDand the usual mode is 250/4. 73´s & Good DX !! Oscar Lama - CX1CW MSN: oscar_l...@hotmail.com MSN: cx...@hotmail.com RGS#1300 EPC#7536 30MDG#2645 FD#2519 - Original Message - From: mikea To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mo

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Hi Steve, I was told this by a Section Manager. So what can I say. Have not been at HQ for at least 10 yesrs. The statement about ROS did not impress me as being pro radio amateur. For me it was a passive transfer of information. He was the spokesman for the ARRL. There are very diverse opinions

[digitalradio] Re: for Sigi omly

Sigi, Why not bring your self not using it for a few days? I know takes courage and self dicipline. Hard to muster these days. And Sigi, we should move this discussion away from here. It is a non issue in the US. ROS is indeed dead here since the middle of March. Somebody said it is illegal and

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Jefferson did make that quote. Grace Hopper did: http://thinkexist.com/quotation/it-is-often-easier-to-ask-for-forgiveness-than-to/378343.html The ARRL only quoted the FCC who quoted Jose. Does not seem like anyone in authority opined on ROS software. The FCC cares about what comes out of my

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

I normally just lurk on this list, but I wanted to jump in and make an important clarification. >Mr. Dan Henderson is a paid lawyer ( unusual for ARRL officials ) >Enough said here. He is a liaison person for among other organizations, the >FCC. >He communicates, does not ask questions Dan Hen

[digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Yes, very good presentation and explanation...I actually understood it, well kinda...73, Alan

Re: AW: AW: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

I have been followed this character Ros from the start. Sorry to say , but I'm not surprised at all . This fits in with his odd but fascinating personality. LA5VNA Steinar On 12.07.2010 23:38, Siegfried Jackstien wrote: > I was begging onb my knees that jose will Stopp the autospotting cause th

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Greg is using ROS. I have logged him. Of course he is living in the North West far away from the government. And Graig, I did not suggest an nice older person to go and ask. That were others who wanted it to die. 73 Rein W6sz --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Hear, hear > > r

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Greg is using ROS. I have logged him. Of course he is living in the North West far away from the government. And Graig, I did not suggest an nice older person to go and ask. That were others who wanted it to die. 73 Rein W6sz --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Hear, hear > > r

[digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Just reached this :- So, if bits are added to the transmit waveform that are not performing a function of helping to re-create an error free replication of the input data, it meets my test as spread spectrum. If the symbols in the transmit waveform cannot be predicted by the previous sequenc

[digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Hi Skip, I like to see this ruling revisited by technical personal within the FCC. The FCC, not ARRL. That's all. Mr. Dan Henderson is a paid lawyer ( unusual for ARRL officials ) Enough said here. He is a liaison person for among other organizations, the FCC. He communicates, does

RE: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Hear, hear rgrds Craig kq6i -Original Message- From: AA0OI [mailto:aa...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 2:52 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA? HI: I Just have one question... HOW THE HELL OLD ARE YOU PEOPLE ?!!

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

I'm can understand how Garrett feels -- I felt something similar when we were all using the Melp codec for FDMDV on HF, and the owners of Melp kind of knew about it but since no one was trying to make money from it (we are amateurs and not in it for the money), they turned a blind eye to what we

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

I was contacted by the person. I did not initiate the contact. I have had dealings with the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau as a result of a petition I amde and I guess I have earned a little measure of respect and trust by some of them. I have been asked not to identify anyone, so please do

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Rein, Yes I was aware of those issues .. I never really did agree with the frenzy of auto spotting any digital mode, gave me a gold fish bowl feeling, but that is the modern twitter way (of which I'm not part of)of doing things .. friends on face book , the number of video views , g

AW: AW: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

I was begging onb my knees that jose will Stopp the autospotting cause that made a lot of trouble I said that we all should stop the adif in a firewall . maybe THAT will bring jose to think But if he has made a decision there is almost no way to change his thoughts I do not know if boycott will

RE: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Spread spectrum is where, functionally equivalent to the to the randomizer, a pseudo random, or even truly random bits are added at a higher rate than the information bits. In a typical randomizer one bit is produced for each bit in. In the case of spreading, usually a significant number of “ex

Re: AW: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Unless there is spread spectrum in ROS you cannot use it. Of course, you can use the part that is not spread spectrum, but the FCC is not going to issue a blanket approval for ROS if any part of it is spread spectrum. They are not interested in issuing approvals for programs anyway. They just s

Re: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

It was not my idea. The author wanted the FCC to say it was not spread spectrum. Unfortunately for all of us in the US, it is spread spectrum, and the FCC rules do not allow that below 222 MHz. I am not potentially damaging the hobby as a whole, just posting what I know. Go ahead and use ROS

[digitalradio] http://www.hamspots.net

Sorry, 73 Rein W6SZ

[digitalradio] http://www.hamspots.net

Sorry, 73 Rein W6SZ

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Garrett, you are the first person in this group expressing exactly what I'm feeling! The whole ROS-discussion - and the dubious person responsible for this mode - reminded me intensely of my time as a young psychologist in a mental hospital. These endless discussions - burying the same carcass

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Hi Graham, ROS software is transmitting a large quantity of messages many fake, some will say illegal, every time your software if turned on, and received a message from a radio amatuer with his own call or a "borrowed" callsign. This was discovered due to my questioning where US calls came f

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Hi Graham, ROS software is transmitting a large quantity of messages many fake, some will say illegal, every time your software if turned on, and received a message from a radio amatuer with his own call or a "borrowed" callsign. This was discovered due to my questioning where US calls came fr

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Dear Skip, This is the second time you post this message about the FCC engineer Why don't you tell us how we can get in touch with this engineer. I would really like to hear that from that person and I would ask him whether the info was for public consumption or "on background" as used in the

[digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Rein, I'm reading this last post , but something is missing , what problem is Jose supposed to fix ? On what ground's should the rest of the world stop using the mode ? My license allows me to transmit mfsk , makes no reference to how the frequency steps are generated and expr

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

HI:  I Just have one question... HOW THE HELL OLD ARE YOU PEOPLE ?!!  Grow Up, and let it die..You have all stabbed it enought to kill it 20 times over.. The only problem with this mode is that you all have to run and ask Uncle FCC "what do we do , what do we do ?" If everyone would just shut the

Re: AW: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Sigi You in Germany and perhaps others in Spain, Italy, France, UK, Russia should stop using ROS until Jose fixes this problem . I am sure he is sensitive to that and will respond to a temporary boycott. One should be able to do this via the amateur radio organizations, DARC. RSGB etc They s

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Skip, I have a lot of respect for you and appreciated every time you emailed me. Honest. Went yesterday through all messages on ROSMODEM and got the idea of some anti biases built in here and there. Almost from day in. You have numerous messages about US ROS use and I sense it. Sure I have a

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

I'm all for itI've been "anti-ROS" since I read the Spread Spectrum description in the original documentation. My point, and Siegfried's as well, is that you can't say that a whole multi-mode package is illegal simply because one mode in it is illegal. I think that is fairly supportive of all

[digitalradio] ISS SSTV activation July 15-16

From: http://ariss-sstv.blogspot.com/ Thursday, July 8, 2010 MAI-75 activation planned for July 15-16 An activity to support SSTV activation (MAI-75) has been schedule on July 15 and 16. Times fall between 12:00-15:00 UTC on the 15th and 10:00-12:00 UTC on the 16th . Additional info as it comes

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Hi Dave, Why don't we try to meet this thing head on, instead of saying too difficult, too boring, fed up and tired of talking, thinking about it. Please lets move on, there are other digital methods, why not just use those? 73 Rein W6SZ -Original Message- >From: Dave Wright >Sent:

Re: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Hi W2XJ, Could you tell me please ( I am believe to be the only person in the group of 4000 seriously interested in this subject as a potential user ) the exact definition of SS in this connection. Open domain references available to me as a non menber of IEEE and the rest. frequency hopping

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Sigi, Have to agree with you here. Since Spread Spectrum is not authorized in the US below 220MHz, and since CHIP 64/128 is Spread Spectrum, no one in the US can use MultiPSK since it includes CHIP??? Well, of course, that isn't the case. Logic would have to prevail, but with the negativity

Re: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

In the original FCC statement on this topic back in March (released via the ARRL), they stated that they did feel that ROS was Spread Spectrum because that was indeed what Jose called it. As they put it, the developer should know what he developed. They further went on to say that it was up to each

AW: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

That would mean if you would implement ros or similar in a multimode soft like multipsk or dm780 you would not be allowed to use it (the whole soft) in us ??? I think if only a part of the soft is forbidden to use (on transmit) all other modes can be used If for instance rtty was forbidden in germ

Re: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

On 7/12/2010 12:28:28 PM, KH6TY wrote: > Lester, The "inventor" has shown over and over that he is not to be trusted, > and > so his block diagram would not be believed either. I suggested months ago > to him to just send his code in confidence to the FCC, which they would > keep private, and be

Re: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Why do you persist in getting the FCC involved? You are potentially damaging the hobby as a whole. If one is qualified to hold a license the FCC presumes ones ability to determine what operations are legal. On 7/12/10 1:28 PM, "KH6TY" wrote: > > > > > > Lester, > The "inventor" has

[digitalradio] Re: Fwd: Re: [ROSDIGITALMODEMGROUP] HAMSPOTS telnet

Hi Steinar, Thanks. I get it. Not all those US calls are fake though. Some US users of ROS do not know about the situation. Not all radio amateurs in US are ARRL member or read their publications, etc.,even as ARRL member. ( I am a member and read most of what they publish ) Also, I used d

[digitalradio] Re: Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Hi Skip. Hope you read it this time: Both these QSO's were on JT. On 18 April we had a long test with VK7MO on 23 cm. We tested a new digital mode called "ROS" on EME that has seen some use on 144 EME. We saw one good decode from Rex in ROS. We ran out of time and did not complete a QSO in

RE: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Hi Skip! Well said. Now let's see how many people in the group really pay attention to what they read. From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KH6TY Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 1:28 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Ra

Re: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Lester, The "inventor" has shown over and over that he is not to be trusted, and so his block diagram would not be believed either. I suggested months ago to him to just send his code in confidence to the FCC, which they would keep private, and be done with it. He replied that, arrogantly, "Th

RE: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Skip: Spectral analysis cannot differentiate between a high rate FEC operating after, as it invariably must, a randomizer, and a true spread spectrum system. And a spread spectrum system does not need to employ frequency hopping. And a signal that “frequency hops” is not necessarily a spread

[digitalradio] KG-STV & SSTVPICS

a tip from Richard for the KG-STV program. you can use SSTVPICS to place pics into KG-STV program as follows. with both programs open, click on the thumbnail as usual. then click on "from clipboard" and you picture is ready to go. sure beats cpy/paste from a directory ! david/wd4kpd -- God's

Re: [digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

Lester, I really appreciate your mannerly characterization of what I wrote as "BS". :-( From the Wikipedia, a more exact definition of spread spectrum is, "*Frequency-hopping spread spectrum* (*FHSS*) is a method of transmitting radio signals by rapidly switching a carrier among many frequen

[digitalradio] Random data vs Spread Spectrum

This, as we say in the lightning fast chicken navy, the following is simply “BS” : ‘ Anyone with DigiPan or any other PSK31 program with a waterfall can verify that the frequency spreading is random and not a function of the data, which is the signature of spread-spectrum.’ The use of a “random

Re: [digitalradio] Contestia Digital Mode Freqs

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:49:43AM -0400, Thomas F. Giella NZ4O wrote: > Contestia is one of the few "mainstream" digital modes that I have not > worked. Where should I look for QSO's frequency wise? Just above the PSK crowd, generally. I've seen them intermixed with Olivia and other multitone mo

[digitalradio] Contestia Digital Mode Freqs

Contestia is one of the few "mainstream" digital modes that I have not worked. Where should I look for QSO's frequency wise? 73 & GUD DX, Thomas F. Giella, NZ4O Lakeland, FL, USA n...@tampabay.rr.com PODXS 070 Club #349 Feld Hell Club #141 30 Meter Digital Group #691 Digital Modes Club #1243 WAR

[digitalradio] New file uploaded to digitalradio

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the digitalradio group. File: /JT65A/jt65-hf-setup.pdf Uploaded by : iz4czl Description : JT65-HF setup and use guide.pdf (manual) You can access this file at the UR

[digitalradio] New file uploaded to digitalradio

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the digitalradio group. File: /JT65A/JT65-HF.pdf Uploaded by : iz4czl Description : JT65-HF download mirror You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Moving ROS forward in the USA?

No, the problem is that the spread spectrum variants are mixed in with the others, all inside the ROS program, so any overall approval of ROS, which undiniably includes the non spread-spectrum modes, would accidentally approve the spread-spectrum modes also. I'm sure that the FCC is not that gu

Re: [digitalradio] Moving ROS forward in the USA?

Andy, I have been told by a FCC engineer, part of the evaluation group at the FCC, whom I will not name, that ROS 16 baud and 1 baud has been evaluated in the lab and "is" spread-spectrum and therefore illegal on HF, not only because the author first said it was spread spectrum and then chang

[digitalradio] Moving ROS forward in the USA?

For those USA hams that are using ROS on HF, I assume that by using it...they feel it is not spread spectrum and thus should be legal. Is there any movement towards petitioning the FCC to reconsider the unofficial comments by them and obtaining statements that it is legal ? Or has everyone agreed

RE: [digitalradio] Where are our innovators?

Agreed - I would say that innovation is proceeding faster than at any time during the 35 years since I was first licenced to create QRM on 160m. There will be spectacular SDR radios released in 2010 / 2011. Simon Brown, HB9DRV http://sdr-radio.com From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [m