Thank you Daniel.
So, as I understand it, the sole piece of HISTORICAL evidence is from Vincenzo
Galilei's 'Fromino Dialogo' (1568,1584) translated by MacClintock (AIM 1985)
as:
..Now I come to the matter of 'tastini' which lately some people seek to
introduce to remove some of the
Dear Martyn and all
On Tuesday 05 April 2005 12:20, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
So, as I understand it, the sole piece of HISTORICAL evidence is from
Vincenzo Galilei's 'Fromino Dialogo' (1568,1584) translated by
MacClintock (AIM 1985) as:
..Now I come to the matter of 'tastini' which lately
I own an Intellitouch tuner and found it next to useless with my lute.
Re: Ronn's tuner. He may have had something like the Intellitouch
tuner clamped on the peg head. A quick search on eBay for 'lute
tuner' in musical instruments should get you a look at it. It would
surprise me if
Before inventing new ways of holding an instrument, it's useful to look at what
early players actually did.
For the lute the following come to mind:
- Iconography depicting extended peghead lutes (ie theorboes, archlutes, late
german baroque lutes) frequently shows the use of a
- hardly, I suggest, a convincing case for
their adoption in modern times.
No, the case for their adoption in modern times is getting an F# instead
of a Gb and a C# instead of a Db in meantone tuning! For that, I am
willing to have Gallilei's ghost stare dissaprovingly at me.
To get on or
You say that as though the problem were with JW and not RT
JM
On 4/4/05 5:36 PM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I here John Williams once again delivered the goods last night in San
Francisco. Opening with six of his own pieces, with an, on the end of
your seat, flawless rendition
You say that as though the problem were with JW and not RT
JM
In fact, in general people who understand music find JW unlistenable.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
On 4/4/05 5:36 PM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I here John Williams once
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Something strange about my letter; I wrote Lorimer, yet the forward spells
it's Lorimar. What's up?
James
I don't know the same thing happened to me, did you get a scolding from
Roman yet?
Michael Thames
I've known Michael Lorimer for over 25 years, he's a
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Apr 4, 2005 6:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Ramon Marco de Sevilla [EMAIL PROTECTED], lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Strap Buttons
Michael,
Regarding Williams's
We could have some form of French tuning pegs such as exist on my 5 string
double bass. They combine a gear with a wooden peg under slight friction. I
like them so much on my bass that I've often wished I had them on my lutes,
baroque guitar and gamba also. Maybe we can get the ear of a luthier
I guess I just don't understand music - thank you for the council.
JM
On 4/5/05 8:12 AM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You say that as though the problem were with JW and not RT
JM
In fact, in general people who understand music find JW unlistenable.
RT
__
Roman M.
-Original Message-
From: Bob Purrenhage [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Apr 4, 2005 8:47 PM
To:
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Strap Buttons
Modest person that I am, I only managed to send this to one person the
first time rather than the whole list:
I think one of the chief
I guess I just don't understand music - thank you for the councEl.
JM
You are welcome.
BTW, I am not disputing that JW is a great player; undoubtedly he is.
However he is not a musician.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
On 4/5/05 8:12 AM, Roman Turovsky
A uniform weight distribution could be achieved by a new design that
would have half of the tuners at one end and half at the other like
we have seen on some practice guitars and some unusual
instruments, the Stossel lute being one of them (not sure of
spelling the name).
Cheers,
Marion
Sounds like a spell checker gone awry
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 10:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Willams Concert
Something strange about my
Dear Chris,
Thank you for posting.
Please see my comments below.
Best regards,
Marion
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Apr 4, 2005 5:32 PM
To: Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vance Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED],
lute list lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, Caroline Usher
Sounds like a spell checker gone awry
More like sel-preservation instinct gone awry
RT
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 10:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
-Original Message-
From: Howard Posner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Apr 4, 2005 5:12 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: Strap Buttons
Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote:
So far, I have not heard of a strap button pulling out of a lute.
It happens all the time, since they're typically put in
I think it is time to stop beating that dead donkey back to life. This has
been tried many times, with the results of eye-sore harmful to one's left
shoulder. Google it up.
And enough already.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
A uniform weight distribution could be
Spell checkers dew knot sea awl.
-Original Message-
From: Fossum, Arthur [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Apr 5, 2005 4:29 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: RE: Williams Concert
Sounds like a spell checker gone awry
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 08:12 AM 4/5/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
In fact, in general people who understand music find JW unlistenable.
While he isn't my favorite guitarist, I occasionally do enjoy hearing John
Williams. I would rather hear him play guitar music than lute music, and
his propensity to edit out
In fact, in general people who understand music find JW unlistenable.
While he isn't my favorite guitarist, I occasionally do enjoy hearing John
Williams. I would rather hear him play guitar music than lute music, and
his propensity to edit out variations from compositions in that form is
of a long lute and this is the reason for the strap.
You also could use the strap with a newly designed
instrument with tuning machines. By now, the
purists are sufficiently horrified
Probably not. They would have seen these inanities come and go, once a year
or so.
BTW, what do you call
At 10:05 AM 4/5/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
[Williams] arrives at each coordinates on time with both hands, but just
doesn't get
the blues.
I certainly can't argue that. That's why I enjoy Williams on Koshkin or
Domeniconi--i.e., newish music suited to technical interpretations--but
favor
[Williams] arrives at each coordinates on time with both hands, but just
doesn't get
the blues.
I certainly can't argue that. That's why I enjoy Williams on Koshkin or
Domeniconi--i.e., newish music suited to technical interpretations--but
favor Lightnin' Hopkins, early Muddy Waters, or
(by the addition of sweaters in colder months, of course).
++Move to California or Hawaii. We don't do winter. :)
Hence the Bandar-Logi approach to lute-playing, obviously.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
At 10:26 AM 4/5/2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
I suppose you haven't heard Eduardo Egüez on dV..
I have, although my exposure is limited to a singular suite once heard on
the radio. It's not on my personal shelves yet...but soon. I like it
too. It struck me as being tastefully executed
this list, I also favor Yasunori Imamura on de Visee.
Eugene
I suppose you haven't heard Eduardo Egüez on dV..
RT
Yea, I highly recommend Edwardo Egez, as well. I usually put him on when
I have problems falling asleep!
Kind of like counting sheep, but instead one can literally count
I wonder about the materials used in 16-18th cent. clothing, especially pants
and shirts. I know that wearing leather pants would make holding the lute much
easier while sitting. It would be stylish at a minimum.
--- Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Before inventing new ways of holding
this list, I also favor Yasunori Imamura on de Visee.
Eugene
I suppose you haven't heard Eduardo Eg? dV..
RT
Yea, I highly recommend Edwardo Egez, as well. I usually put him on when
I have problems falling asleep!
Kind of like counting sheep, but instead one can literally count the
In my neck o' the woods beautiful music is important, and NOT whether it
is
done from memory or otherwise.
RT
And I assume you've perfected both aspects of this art, and are
highly qualified to let loose with your undigested cheese, Herr Genius.
Michael Thames
this list, I also favor Yasunori Imamura on de Visee.
Eugene
I suppose you haven't heard Eduardo Egüez on dV..
RT
Yea, I highly recommend Edwardo Egez, as well. I usually put him on when
I have problems falling asleep!
Kind of like counting sheep, but instead one can literally
FYI: Fomenting unrest requires intelligence.
RT
And a hell of allot of reverb!
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: LUTE-LIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: Willams
In a message dated 04/05/05 7:04:13 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I used blues figuratively.
Actually, Williams does have a recording of 3 blues by Charlie Byrd on a
disc called Spirit of the Guitar
You gotta hear it!
Mark Delpriora
Co-chair, guitar department,
Manhattan School of Music
To
Can do play it any faster or better? Just curious...
aa
One doesn't need to be able to play better, faster, than someone
else to comment, as we have witnessed from Roman's critique of JW.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: ariel abramovich
FYI: Fomenting unrest requires intelligence.
RT
And a hell of allot of reverb!
Michael Thames
The amount of reverb is commensurate with intelligence.
RT
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
You may, indeed, have that opinion. It may be shared with others. It is
still only an opinion.
JM
On 4/5/05 8:28 AM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I guess I just don't understand music - thank you for the councEl.
JM
You are welcome.
BTW, I am not disputing that JW is a great
FYI: Fomenting unrest requires intelligence.
RT
And a hell of allot of reverb!
Michael Thames
The amount of reverb is commensurate with intelligence.
RT
I literally can't tell at times if it's the note that's sustaining ,
or if it's reverb. With that amount of reverb Roman even you
Can do play it any faster or better? Just curious...
aa
One doesn't need to be able to play better, faster, than someone
else to comment, as we have witnessed from Roman's critique of JW.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
I suspect Thames is a Metheny fan as well.
I always
In my neck o' the woods beautiful music is important, and NOT whether it
is
done from memory or otherwise.
RT
And I assume you've perfected both aspects of this art, and are
highly qualified to let loose with your undigested cheese, Herr Genius.
1. I make no claim to such an exalted state
You may, indeed, have that opinion. It may be shared with others. It is
still only an opinion.
JM
Like I said: Some like watermelon, some like watermelon rind.
RT
On 4/5/05 8:28 AM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I guess I just don't understand music - thank you for the
Make us an MP3, and post it somewhere (fair use: Educational)
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
I used blues figuratively.
Actually, Williams does have a recording of 3 blues by Charlie Byrd on a
disc called Spirit of the Guitar
You gotta hear it!
Mark
FYI: Fomenting unrest requires intelligence.
RT
And a hell of allot of reverb!
Michael Thames
The amount of reverb is commensurate with intelligence.
RT
I literally can't tell at times if it's the note that's sustaining ,
or if it's reverb. With that amount of reverb Roman even you would
I suspect Thames is a Metheny fan as well.
I always preferred meaningful to fast, even before Pat O'Brien told me in
1987 that speed wasn't sexy.
Back in the old country we say: Some like watermelon, some like watermelon
rind.
RT
No, as I said before I'm not a big jazz fan.
However, I
I admit to have overdone on reverb here
http://www.polyhymnion.org/tombeau/tombeaux/tom-frob.mp3
though.
RT
I have yet to open any of your cheesey products, I'm not about to
start now.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL
Back in the old country we say: Some like watermelon, some like
watermelon
rind.
RT
Back in the really old country, we say... If a parrot keeps repeating
old sayings, he winds up in a cage.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Michael Thames [EMAIL
I suspect Thames is a Metheny fan as well.
I always preferred meaningful to fast, even before Pat O'Brien told me in
1987 that speed wasn't sexy.
Back in the old country we say: Some like watermelon, some like watermelon
rind.
RT
No, as I said before I'm not a big jazz fan.
However, I
One might, a priori, suspect that two strings of a
course would occasionally vibrate 180 degrees out
of phase, cancel each other, and produce no sound.
I wonder why this never happens in the real world.
I understand that such cancellation is the basis
of beats (eg, as used by piano tuners). But
I suppose you have no idea how many of these end up drowned off the
Nonza-IsulaRussa road in Corsica
I've found it's usually the slow drivers that cause all the problems, you
know like driving to slow in the fast lane.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
I admit to have overdone on reverb here
http://www.polyhymnion.org/tombeau/tombeaux/tom-frob.mp3
though.
RT
I have yet to open any of your cheesey products, I'm not about to
start now.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
In fact, it was produced by friend in Limburg. So it is
Herbert,
Your point is well taken, I now concede to the cheese maker from NYC.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:24 AM
Subject: Complete cancellation of sound.
I suppose you have no idea how many of these end up drowned off the
Nonza-IsulaRussa road in Corsica
I've found it's usually the slow drivers that cause all the problems, you
know like driving to slow in the fast lane.
Michael Thames
Slow works for me, especially in the intimate situations.
Moose leather pants were a part of cavalry uniform until the Crimean war.
No lutenistic use, I suspect.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
I wonder about the materials used in 16-18th cent. clothing, especially pants
and shirts. I know that wearing leather pants
this list, I also favor Yasunori Imamura on de Visee.
Eugene
I suppose you haven't heard Eduardo Eg? dV..
RT
Yea, I highly recommend Edwardo Egez, as well. I usually put him on when
I have problems falling asleep!
Kind of like counting sheep, but instead one can literally count the
The strings would have to be 180 degrees out of phase, but the waveforms
even between two strings at the same is unlikely to ever be
identical--different amplitudes for various harmonics, even not counting
that one string might easily be plucked slightly harder than the
other. But that's the
because the group in which i play tends to walk around
while performing, i tried putting a very simple
harness on my oud made from leather thong boot laces.
i was warned against it, saying i'll be sorry when i
drop the oud ... ahh ... but i was so much older then
..
i passed one leather thong
Does your oud have three sound holes (usual for ouds)? You could run the
thong in one of the side holes and out the other. Avoids interference with
the strings and the oud couldn't slip out of the harness.
because the group in which i play tends to walk around
while performing, i tried putting
At 03:22 PM 4/4/2005, Vance Wood wrote:
Dear Caroline:
In the context this was written--Yes. When it comes to understanding
the instrument, the music and the player/authors--No. In answered to
the question we? If that means you wish to exclude yourself from that
painting with a broad
i don't have the science to even attempt this but on
the same principle, i once thought that a hand help
loudspeaker (voice gun) could be attached to a
multiple sound producing oscilator of some sort, aimed
at any offending (LOUD!) noise and neutralize it at
source. sort of a getto-buster instead
No Daniel, it's not just G I'm afraid but on the basis of historical evidence,
or rather lack of it, most other early lutenists. If we are serious about
period performance it is important we pay proper regard to what they wld have
expected based on the evidence and not our personal
boo ... hisss ...
the soundboard is much too fragile and it would damage
the roses.
- bill
--- Doctor Oakroot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does your oud have three sound holes (usual for
ouds)? You could run the
thong in one of the side holes and out the other.
Avoids interference with
the
Oh, didn't think about that. The sound board on my oud could take it just
fine, and it doesn't have any roses. (It's a really cheap oud - got it in
a pawn shop for $40). Might depend on the weight of the instrument too -
mine is really light, but an Egyptian one might be too heavy for that.
boo
At 06:48 AM 4/5/2005, Daniel Shoskes wrote:
- hardly, I suggest, a convincing case for
their adoption in modern times.
No, the case for their adoption in modern times is getting an F# instead
of a Gb and a C# instead of a Db in meantone tuning! For that, I am
willing to have Gallilei's ghost
Dear Gary,
I've thought about these for some instrument or other, can't remember which,
probably a clarinet, and the price of the ones in my catalogue made them
prohibitive, especially if you think that you're talking about a minimum of
eleven. My catalogue isn't to hand, but I think they were
On second (or is it third?) thought, the sound board is hold the tension
of the strings which is much more than the weight of the oud. I think it
could take it. (The roses may be a different issue).
boo ... hisss ...
the soundboard is much too fragile and it would damage
the roses.
- bill
... different amplitudes for various harmonics ...
Different phases too.
If I wanted to speculate even more, I'd wonder if there's any coupling
between the strings that would disfavor having them stay 180 out of
phase.
Interesting and plausible idea.
... But that's the facile
i don't have the science to even attempt this but on
the same principle, i once thought that a hand help
loudspeaker (voice gun) could be attached to a
multiple sound producing oscilator of some sort, aimed
at any offending (LOUD!) noise and neutralize it at
source.
There'd be so much
Unless the Pegheds were specially made for a lute, peg length and
diameter would be a problem. The first lute I built for myself had
Schaller adjustable tension pegs (I didn't have a lathe to do my own
pegs, didn't know where to buy any lute pegs, and wasn't sure I could
fit traditional pegs
Dear Martyn,
Yes, I would be most grateful for the relevant page numbers in the
original edition(s) -1568 and/or 1584.
The MacClintoc translation/edition is of the 1584 version. If I interprete
the listings of contents right, the talk about uneven fret placement and
tastini starts in page
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Dear Marion and Chris,
On the face of it I agree with your objection to the way the Lute is tuned,
mechanically not musically. However, if you take all of the arguments that
can be made about an historically correct Lute and its many difficulties and
choose to update the instrument, we would
Dear Caroline:
That's good to hear, I think it is important to be focused but not cemented
in one spot. When you take the sum total of all we know about the way the
Lute was played and the kinds of Lutes that were played, or not played as
the case may be, we really know, for sure, very little as
Hi Gary,
How do you like your 5 string double bass? I could never get used to the
flatter arch of a 5 string bridge and opted for a low C fingered extension
many years ago.
Regards,
Mike
- Original Message -
From: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent:
Ramon Marco de Sevilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Are lutes built strongly enough to handle strap buttons?
yes, but... make sure you have the work done by someone with experience; the
neck
end of the lute has a small block inside that anchors the ends of all the ribs
and
provides an excellent
Timothy,
I 've spoken to the guy at Pegheads, about the possibility of making
lute
pegs, which he says can easily be done, one can use whatever design one
wants for the head and different lengths etc.
However, after telling me he could do it, he seemed to back out of
the
idea, and rant and
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