Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet

2009-10-07 Thread John Smith
2009/10/7 Kenneth Gonsalves : > they still cannot compete - we had katipara junction clover leaf flyover on > our > map at least six months before it was completed ;-) I just find it funny that they've upgraded their data well before it's completed :)

Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide

2009-10-07 Thread John Smith
2009/10/7 Dave F. : > Not necessarily more useful, but give a general idea of how the data was > collected, yes. Unfortunately there's more to the accuracy of a GPX > recording than the accuracy of the chip. Such as number of lock on > satellites, weather, & geography The number of sats doesn't ma

Re: [OSM-talk] Posters for Mapping Party

2009-10-08 Thread John Smith
A lot of these files end up in http://svn.openstreetmap.org On 08/10/2009 4:29 PM, "Sajjad Anwar" wrote: Hey. I have seen a few posters of mapping parties. Does any one share the source files? Thanks. Regards. -- Sajjad Anwar http://geohackers.in http://fsugcalicut.org +91 9995 19 13 12 __

Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

2009-10-08 Thread John Smith
2009/10/9 Lulu-Ann : > Hello list members, > > starting today there is a visual slippy map displaying map features for > the blind an visually impaired available in a beta testing state: > > http://freenet-homepage.de/rapunzely/OSM/blindmap.html > > Hobby cartographers without visual impairment can

Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

2009-10-08 Thread John Smith
2009/10/9 Mike N. : >> Not quite the same thing but I was told last week some colour blind >> people can't use Google maps because there is too much green, but they >> can use maps based on OSM data, not sure which style etc, because it >> has less/no green > >  As long as they don't live in Georgi

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

2009-10-08 Thread John Smith
2009/10/9 Russ Nelson : > The benefit is that people spend more time mapping and less time > coordinating with each other on things that don't need to be > coordinated in advance. I disagree, there are contentious tags I just won't bother doing anything with, simply because it seems like it would

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

2009-10-08 Thread John Smith
2009/10/9 Lester Caine : > Russ Nelson wrote: >> I considered doing so, but this issue is larger than tagging.  Do you >> have anything to contribute other than stop energy to my suggestion? >> >> Apollinaris Schoell writes: >>  > can you move this thread to the new list where it belongs? > > I agr

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Google has dual carriage way where it'snot built yet

2009-10-10 Thread John Smith
2009/10/11 Anthony : > That's my point though.  I'm not sure we should allow "proposed" or > "historical" data unless and until OSM supports the features of > traditional layers.  Perhaps there is a way to be smarter about it > (allow links between layers but warn when they are broken), but I'm > n

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

2009-10-11 Thread John Smith
2009/10/11 Richard Fairhurst : > Pieren wrote: >> And, btw, I think that discussions about tagging is central enough in >> OSM project that it should stay in the main talk list. > > You're entitled to that view. Similarly, I think that discussions about > licences are central enough to OSM that the

Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting

2009-10-11 Thread John Smith
2009/10/11 Richard Fairhurst : > John Smith wrote: >> What exactly, in your opinion, should the talk list be used for >> exactly, now that everything has been branched off to it's own list? > >  From a quick scan through the last couple of months, perhaps stuff > like

Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

2009-10-11 Thread John Smith
2009/10/12 Lulu-Ann : > Hello list, > > hello andrzej, > >> What tag would you use for bus/tram stops with a "i" button that reads >> out the information about trams soonest to arrive, aloud? > > I have never seen those before. > > Not proposed yet, but I guess many things need explanation, > so I

Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik shelter rendering

2009-10-11 Thread John Smith
2009/10/12 Dave G <9gerk...@gmail.com>: > http://alpineguides.co.nz/info/huts/tasman_saddle.htm but sorry > not restaurants!! They have a link to google maps, maybe if you can get the tagging sorted you could get them to link to OSM maps that actually show their hut on the map :) ___

Re: [OSM-talk] bot vandalism

2009-10-12 Thread John Smith
2009/10/12 Matthias Versen : > Should we allow to register everyone only with a valid email address and > let him edit the whole planet with JOSM/potlatch/script without quality > check ? > This new users are doing the same mistakes I did at the beginning and > they often break valid data and they

Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik shelter rendering

2009-10-13 Thread John Smith
2009/10/13 Frederik Ramm : > Hi, > >> True. In german we say "Schutzhütte" (losely translates as "protection >> hut") and the german wikipedia article shows good examples in pictures: >> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzhütte (ignore the one in the lower >> right corner). These "shelters" are onl

Re: [OSM-talk] Visual map for the blind

2009-10-13 Thread John Smith
2009/10/13 : > I would love to agree, but the needs of disabled persons are widely spread > over our tagging scheme anyway, and awareness of objects that refer to > accessibility is nearly zero. > There are categories for visual, hearing and walking impariment, colletcted > in the category "ac

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (boundary=military)

2009-10-13 Thread John Smith
2009/10/14 Pieren : > 2009/10/13 Gilles Corlobé : >> I didn't know I didn't have to wait the approval. >> It's now done : http://osm.org/go/xXEahwWz-- > > Gilles, your approach was the correct one. Don't follow those stupid > advices from guys how want the chaos in OSM. Making proposals and > havin

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (boundary=military)

2009-10-13 Thread John Smith
2009/10/14 Dave F. : > Pieren wrote: >> 2009/10/13 Gilles Corlobé : >> >>> I didn't know I didn't have to wait the approval. >>> It's now done : http://osm.org/go/xXEahwWz-- >>> >> >> Gilles, your approach was the correct one. Don't follow those stupid >> advices from guys how want the chaos in OSM

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (boundary=military)

2009-10-13 Thread John Smith
2009/10/14 Gilles Corlobé : > In my opinion, the tag "landuse=military" should only be used for specificly > military activities, like those discribed in the wiki. > Some of you have suggested to create 2 areas, covering the same place. I > don't think this is correct. One of you said that's done e

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (boundary=military)

2009-10-13 Thread John Smith
2009/10/14 Gilles Corlobé : > You're right : If the area is covered by a forest (or a lake, or whatever), > it should appear like this on the map. What would a user think if he finds a > forest (even if it's in a military area) that is not on the map? > And we should remerber that all users are not

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (boundary=military)

2009-10-15 Thread John Smith
2009/10/16 Russ Nelson : > Liz writes: >  > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Shaun McDonald wrote: >  > > Before you propose a tag, you should be using it. >  > >  > Why? > > To show people how you're using it.  http://osm.org/ Just because you use something, doesn't mean you picked the right combination

Re: [OSM-talk] Older planet files (from 2007)?

2009-10-15 Thread John Smith
2009/10/16 Ciprian Talaba : > Hello, > > Is there a place where we can download old planet files, from 2007 for > example? I would like to create an animation with the development of a > Romanian city, but the extracts I have started in November 2007, and I would > like to start with an (almost) em

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (man_made=mineshaft)

2009-10-20 Thread John Smith
2009/10/20 Lesi : >> It would be helpful to know what people are mapping these features as >> currently - looking in the UK I can see one "man-made=mineshaft" and no >> references to "surface_mining".  Do you know what people are using >> currently? > > In the area I map the mineshafts are currentl

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (man_made=mineshaft)

2009-10-20 Thread John Smith
2009/10/20 Martin Koppenhoefer : > 2009/10/20 John Smith : >> There is probably a good reason only tourist attractions are mapped >> because you wouldn't be allowed to go near one unless you worked >> there, there is a mine shaft on the other side of town but I wouldn

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (man_made=mineshaft)

2009-10-20 Thread John Smith
2009/10/20 Lesi : > I know mineshaft you can get very close to (2-3m). With your argument half > of the features of OSM should not be mapped e.g. historic=wreck or streets > within the ground of a factory. And once again: mineshafts which have a > headframe are very good points of reference. Often

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(man_made=mineshaft)

2009-10-21 Thread John Smith
2009/10/21 Ulf Lamping : > A former cafe can be helpful as a landmark as well. Especially when it's > a free standing building (e.g. in a forest) near a larger city, which is > not that uncommon in germany. > > If you stand in front of it, you'll now this once was a cafe. Larger > paved area in fro

Re: [OSM-talk] Older planet files (from 2007)?

2009-10-21 Thread John Smith
2009/10/21 Ciprian Talaba : > Thanks for all the info. With your help I was able to obtain older extracts > for Romania and to create some evolution movies. They are not great compared > with what ITO have done in the past but they covered our needs (we have also > contacted ITO, actually Peter Mil

Re: [OSM-talk] Roadside Distance Markers

2009-10-22 Thread John Smith
2009/10/23 mle : > Hi Folks - > > on a recent survey, I mapped some roads with modern km markers by the > side of the road.  How should these be mapped - As a node within the > highway, or a separate single node to the side of the highway.  And how > to tag these ? Wouldn't it be better to make a

Re: [OSM-talk] differences in how OpenCycleMap renders bicycle parking

2009-10-24 Thread John Smith
2009/10/24 Erik Johansson : > I have this problem for the Swedish country side. we have so much land > and so little mapped things that the UK created mapnik rules used for > Europe are no good. Other examples of this are highway sheilds in dense areas v sparsely populated areas.

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-10-29 Thread John Smith
2009/10/29 Kenneth Gonsalves : > look, a few days back someone (I think it was Richard Fairhurst) started a > campaign asking google to allow us to trace their imagery. A lot of us signed > up. The answer was a flat 'no'. So there is nothing ambigous about it. Yahoo! > has said 'yes', google has sa

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-10-29 Thread John Smith
2009/10/30 Stefan de Konink : > At the GSoC there was a clear opening. Will pursue this when I'll feel > better. It seems to me that Google prefers it a bit grey when it comes to their suppliers, so I'm not sure you'll end up with a better answer than Ed has already given. ___

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-10-29 Thread John Smith
2009/10/30 Stefan de Konink : > The talk with Leslie was pretty clear; state a well founded business case > why OSM exchange would be good for Google and there is an opening. Google > seems to be about talking the truth externally but usually not more than > you already know. (Which is probably ver

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/1 Pieren : > I don't like this thread because it could leave the impression that > tracing on orthophotos is not a copyright infringement. Unfortunately, > it is. People are mixing factual data visible on a picture like "the Actually it doesn't have anything to do with copyright because yo

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/1 Anthony : > If you're tracing roads, you're copying the shape of the roads. > You're certainly copying *something*, but that something is probably > not copyrighted (and almost certainly not copyrighted by the person > who took the picture).  The copyright on the shape and location of the

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/2 Martin Koppenhoefer : > in some regions/countries like the EU there is also a database protection > and those aerial images are / might be considered a database. Then all photos are databases... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org htt

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/2 Jukka Rahkonen : > different contracts. Yahoo obviously paying more because of more open licence Yahoo also seems to have "new" data that's 3 years old, so they may get it for the same price (or cheaper), but have more rights to derive data from it? _

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/2 Jukka Rahkonen : > John Smith gmail.com> writes: > >> >> 2009/11/2 Martin Koppenhoefer gmail.com>: >> > in some regions/countries like the EU there is also a database protection >> > and those aerial images are / might be considered a dat

Re: [OSM-talk] Illegal activity

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/2 Anthony : > Yeah well, maybe in the US.  In France you can copyright a building > and anyone who takes a picture of the building and uses it for > commercial purposes without permission is committing copyright > infringement.  Maybe they'd be willing to extend that to roads, at > least in

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for JOSM

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/2 Shalabh : > I will leave this open to discussion but I thought it better to bring this > to everybody's notice, so JOSM can be made more user friendly. You can already convert a GPX layer to a OSM layer and then upload the results, just right click on the layer, however it can be very te

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for JOSM

2009-11-01 Thread John Smith
2009/11/2 Dan Homerick : > On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 10:56 PM, John Smith > wrote: >> >> You can already convert a GPX layer to a OSM layer and then upload the >> results, just right click on the layer, however it can be very tedious >> to remove points if they are on

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for JOSM

2009-11-02 Thread John Smith
2009/11/3 Michael Barabanov : > Also, a free-hand drawing mode (e.g. press-down left mouse button and > drag) in JOSM would go a long way towards faster tracing. Clicking to > add one point at a time is pretty slow. +1 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstr

Re: [OSM-talk] Will Google ever use OSM data?

2009-11-02 Thread John Smith
2009/11/3 Anthony : > No.  I was going to say "not unless OSM abandons CC-BY-SA in favor of > public domain", but that's not going to ever happen either, so no. Google has no problem with saying where the data comes from, they already do this by commercial companies. This isn't the same thing as

Re: [OSM-talk] Will Google ever use OSM data?

2009-11-02 Thread John Smith
2009/11/3 Anthony : > True.  I should have said "a non-copyleft license" rather than "public > domain".  CC-BY would probably be easier to implement than public > domain, actually. Actually that's a good point, with CC-BY-SA it's obvious where it came from, public domain can take a lot of effort t

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for JOSM

2009-11-03 Thread John Smith
2009/11/3 Martin Koppenhoefer : > > > 2009/11/3 John Smith >> >> 2009/11/3 Michael Barabanov : >> > Also, a free-hand drawing mode (e.g. press-down left mouse button and >> > drag) in JOSM would go a long way towards faster tracing. Clicking to >

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for JOSM

2009-11-03 Thread John Smith
2009/11/3 Martin Koppenhoefer : > > > 2009/11/3 John Smith >> >> Gimp lets you plot freehand or if you hold shift will do a straight >> line, I'm sure there is a number of modifiers that would make a free >> hand mode useful... > > Gimp is a bitmap-

Re: [OSM-talk] Will Google ever use OSM data?

2009-11-10 Thread John Smith
It doesn't look like CC-BY-SA is a limiting factor to google: http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/10/google_australia/ "This is just one of the new data sets that Google Australia is planning to incorporate into its Google Maps platform, courtesy of a major "open access"

Re: [OSM-talk] Will Google ever use OSM data?

2009-11-12 Thread John Smith
2009/11/13 Anthony : > I realize the toilet map is serious, but I was more interested in > whether or not Google is in fact using the data under CC-BY-SA, and if > so for what. At a guess they'd only be copying the data, not improving upon it so they can just say there is nothing to share, basical

Re: [OSM-talk] Will Google ever use OSM data?

2009-11-12 Thread John Smith
2009/11/13 Anthony : > Just copying it to their data center so it can sit on the hard drive > doing nothing?  I'm mainly interested in whether or not their lawyers > think they can do a mashup using CC-BY-SA data plus say proprietary > aerial imagery, without releasing the aerial imagery under CC-B

Re: [OSM-talk] Will Google ever use OSM data?

2009-11-12 Thread John Smith
2009/11/13 Anthony : > On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 9:42 PM, John Smith wrote: >> That might be the case if the data is a single image, but if there is >> a base layer plus a data layer then what? > > Ultimately it is made into a single image before it is displayed on > the

Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places

2009-11-13 Thread John Smith
2009/11/13 Peter Childs : > The is_in tag is not a lot of use either due to it being inconsistent. I thought is_in is depreciated and replaced by polygons? > While I don't think this list would be worth piping back in to the > database, it might be useful for knowing what were missing. I can

Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places

2009-11-13 Thread John Smith
2009/11/13 Andrew Errington : > You could calculate node density (nodes/km2) and assume that node density > will decay from the centre of a town to the edge.  This would work for the > nodes in ways, since 'in town' will have more streets than 'out of town'. > A rural area with winding roads might

Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places

2009-11-13 Thread John Smith
2009/11/13 Peter Childs : > My first though was for an generated list rather than entered > boarders, however thinking again this might need some human > intervention to work properly. Boundaries are just as much arbitary as they are geographically based etc > I'm not trying to reflect local gove

Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places

2009-11-13 Thread John Smith
2009/11/13 Peter Childs : > I like it, but I wonder whether the place=city should be on the way > rather than on some miscellaneous node. I'm not sure I like the bodge > that is admin_level's I had always thought of them as government > administration borders. It's also tagged as landuse=resi

Re: [OSM-talk] does one need to download the planet to use osmosis

2009-11-13 Thread John Smith
2009/11/14 Kenneth Gonsalves : > hi, > > I want to use osmosis to download and extract from the planet. I tried giving > the web address of the planet latest file, but get an error saying > 'http:/openstre../planet_latest.. not found'. Note that the error gives the > address as http:/  with only on

Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places

2009-11-18 Thread John Smith
2009/11/18 Emilie Laffray : > > > 2009/11/18 Liz >> >> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Peter Childs wrote: >> > What I would like to do is write a script that takes the planet and >> > gives a list of the places (towns, villages etc) and a polygon/area >> > for each place. >> Please leave australia out of yo

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Potlatch 1.2f has native support for NearMap

2009-11-19 Thread John Smith
2009/11/20 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason : > Who's up for a virtual mapping party with this amazing imagery: Currently we're trying to completely map out Carnarvon, which is a small town about 1000km from the nearest city. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-24.8724&lon=113.6885&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF

Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo imagery through wmsplugin not displaying in JOSM on Ubuntu Linux

2009-11-20 Thread John Smith
2009/11/20 Jean-Marc Liotier : > The command line I am using for the plugin is > 'gnome-web-photo --mode=photo --format=ppm "{0}" /dev/stdout | pnmcrop > -white | pnmtopng' I had no luck with gnome-web-photo on ubuntu at all, just get and compile webkit-image, it's fairly trivial to do and works a

Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places

2009-11-20 Thread John Smith
Was there some sort of consensus on how to tag these at all? Even though I don't think they should be automatically guessed at, and even though there is boundaries for most places in Australia, some times the towns out grow the boundaries and it'd be useful to tag these exceptions. __

Re: [OSM-talk] Isn't it time for a higher zoom level?

2009-11-20 Thread John Smith
2009/11/21 Peter Childs : > If we had an application, that could read osm and render on the fly we > could have any zoom level we like, including zoom levels between zoom > levels, (ie vector graphics) > > In theory Potlatch already does some of this, buts it written to enter > data not render the

Re: [OSM-talk] Isn't it time for a higher zoom level?

2009-11-21 Thread John Smith
2009/11/21 Peter Childs : > But most people have more CPU than they really know what to do with > these days. Actually it's going the other way, mobile phones and netbooks are becoming the most common internet connected devices. ___ talk mailing lis

Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Idea: shp2osm2gpx2donateBYseparate login

2009-11-23 Thread John Smith
2009/11/23 Sam Vekemans : > Hi everyone, > What do you think of the idea to convert the shp files to OSM, then to > GPX and upload it that way? I don't think this would be a good idea, they aren't GPS traces, it would also remove or make more difficult if things need to be attributed to know what

Re: [OSM-talk] Does Google use automated tracing from satellite imagery ?

2009-11-23 Thread John Smith
2009/11/23 Jean-Marc Liotier : > So is anyone aware of automated tracing techniques that Google might be > using ? Is automated tracing from legally available imagery something I was under the impression that google used their mapmaker technology and had employees, and since releasing it to the pu

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhone vs Android - OSM shootout

2009-11-23 Thread John Smith
2009/11/24 Valent Turkovic : > - onboard GPS precision The iPhone has a poor GPS chip from what I've read. > - a bit bigger and heavier than iPhone There is more than one phone that runs Android, some are very similar in weight/size to the iPhone, also some have a physical keypad which is much m

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhone vs Android - OSM shootout

2009-11-23 Thread John Smith
2009/11/24 andrzej zaborowski : > If anyone has experience with any of the two and additionally the Palm > Pre, I'd love to see a comparison too, and especially if there are any > OSM related apps.  My experience with Pre so far: Is there a GSM version of the Pre yet?

Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.3

2009-11-23 Thread John Smith
2009/11/24 Anthony : > Nevermind.  That's about half an inch, and it doesn't seem to be less > than a pixel (at my latitude/longitude, anyway).  For some reason last > time i calculated it I thought it was more. You should use metric it's easier since metric distances were based on a rough approxi

Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.3

2009-11-23 Thread John Smith
2009/11/24 Frederik Ramm : > Maybe "~= 100km", but "== 60 nm". One nautical mile is exactly one minute of Because they estimated the circumference to 36,000km, but it's over 40,000km > arc. Say again which system was naturally suited for all things geo? 1 nautical mile is exactly 1852m Actual c

Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.3

2009-11-23 Thread John Smith
2009/11/24 John Smith : > 1 nautical mile is exactly 1852m Sorry, it was set to 1853m. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] iPhone vs Android - OSM shootout

2009-11-24 Thread John Smith
2009/11/25 Woll : > 3) Battery life > Not long enough for day trips. The battery runs out in a few hours, even > with ordinary usage of the iPhone, so on a day trip with a 2 hour car drive > you can't map both the outward and inward journeys. Here's an iPhone negaitve I didn't see mentioned before

Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate placeholder IDs in the latest JOSM tested (2510)

2009-11-24 Thread John Smith
2009/11/25 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason : > Sorry for the confusion. I mixed up 2510 (a random recent commit) and > 2255 (7 weeks old) in my browser and thought that the current JOSM > tested had just been released based on 2510. Obviously it's not *that* > big a deal if it has been out in JOSM tested a

Re: [OSM-talk] Bridge on Hiking Trails

2009-11-25 Thread John Smith
2009/11/26 andrzej zaborowski : > I assume layer is 0 if I don't add the layer tag. Yes, which is usually anything at ground level. > Hopefully this is the correct thing to assume because otherwise things > will break if I have a bridge with no layer tag and a another bridge No they won't break,

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping everything as areas

2009-11-27 Thread John Smith
I've been seeing this thread develop, and apart from trying to use areas and relations in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways wouldn't it be simpler from a logical point of view to treat ways as a grouping of lanes and those lanes can be assigned tags that differ from the ways, such as directions

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping everything as areas

2009-11-27 Thread John Smith
2009/11/28 Roy Wallace : > On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 5:47 AM, John Smith wrote: >> >> I've been seeing this thread develop, and apart from trying to use >> areas and relations in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways wouldn't >> it be simpler from a logical poin

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping everything as areas

2009-11-27 Thread John Smith
Why do you insist on limiting everything to just areas, the problem is micro mapping, areas is one solution to it, but not the only solution. If you want to have a discussion that's fine but you are merely dismissing other view points because the problem has been too narrowly defined to even bothe

Re: [OSM-talk] tags for autorickshaw

2009-11-28 Thread John Smith
2009/11/28 Konrad Skeri : > They could be put as fee=prepaid/metered/unmetered > Perhaps not optimal, but not entierly wrong. metering=prepaid/metered/unmetered ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping everything as areas

2009-11-29 Thread John Smith
A thought occurred to me, that people are only planning to use areas because editors don't easily allow for widths to be entered graphically. I wonder how much work it would be if you could draw the way and then stretch it sideways to fill out the extact area you wanted covered and then the editor

Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands

2009-12-01 Thread John Smith
2009/12/2 Steve Bennett : > > IMHO, the US English/Australian English issue here is spurious. Australians > certainly understand and use the word "ford" to mean a low water crossing. I disagree, I've only ever heard them refered to as causeways and fords up until I started mapping was a make of ca

Re: [OSM-talk] Divided roads proposal

2009-12-03 Thread John Smith
2009/12/3 Steve Bennett : > I find the current practice of duplicating minor roads when there is a > median strip pretty unsatisfactory. Even disregarding the effort, the > end result never renders well: usually the street name is written > twice, the one-way arrows get messy etc. That's a problem

Re: [OSM-talk] Divided roads proposal

2009-12-03 Thread John Smith
2009/12/3 Richard Mann : > Unless you want to write routines for pre-processing two almost-parallel > ways back into a single way so it can be rendered neatly, I suggest it's a > mapping problem. Don't make work for other people if you don't have to. I thought we were trying to map the world in as

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] putting Q150 survey marks on osm

2009-12-03 Thread John Smith
2009/12/4 : > These marks are part tourist attraction, part survey control. Most are > located where a car with an in-built GPS can drive right up to it, so > the driver can check the accuracy of their GPS signal. The Gympie co-ords are wonky to say the least, it puts the marker near Kilcoy/Summe

Re: [OSM-talk] Divided roads proposal

2009-12-03 Thread John Smith
2009/12/4 Steve Bennett : > Again, this proposal is not primarily about rendering. That's a nice benefit > in some cases. The goals are: > 1) More appropriate data structure How is this more appropriate, you are loosing real world information to improve rendering. > 2) Better usability How does

Re: [OSM-talk] Divided roads proposal

2009-12-03 Thread John Smith
2009/12/4 Steve Bennett : > The main focus is *adding* information to roads currently mapped as single > (non-divided) roads. Gaining information. Not losing. There are a huge > number of places that this will add information that was not previously > mapped. This opens up a can of worms about mic

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Shaun McDonald : > The License Working Group has spent months, well probably nearer years, on > the license change. They know one heck of a lot more about legal systems than > myself. They are people that I trust. Therefore I'm going to listen to them, > and let them just get on with i

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 John Smith : > 2009/12/6 Shaun McDonald : >> The License Working Group has spent months, well probably nearer years, on >> the license change. They know one heck of a lot more about legal systems >> than myself. They are people that I trust. Therefore I'm g

Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Ulf Lamping : > Iván Sánchez Ortega schrieb: >> So you think that the OSMF is forcing people to do things, and controlling >> instead of supporting? > > Does: "Say yes to the new license or we'll delete your data" sound more > like supporting or controlling to you? I had the unfortunate

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Richard Fairhurst : > Creative Commons, of course, has practising copyright lawyers too. They have > said that CC-BY-SA isn't applicable to data and we shouldn't use it. There has also been a lot of data imported from Government sources that released data as CC-BY-SA and I'm sure they ha

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Anthony : > No sense in wasting everyone's time if the OSMF members aren't going to > agree to it anyway? I'm pretty sure he meant asking contributors before threatening to remove their contributions. > It'll still be there.  In perfect form for the fork which will inevitably > arise.

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 SteveC : > Are you also living on planet Frederik? Out of all the crazy claims > this has to be the most crazy. Where have you been the past year of > consultations? How is insulting people going to help things? ___ talk mailing list talk@open

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 SteveC : > By letting them know FUD and BS will be shot down. And you are coming off just as unrational as you are claiming they are being and not helping fence sitters one bit. If you want a dictatorship on the matter say so, otherwise you or others wanting the change need to address t

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Anthony : >> Click through type agreements have already been deemed as >> unenforceable, > > Can you provide me with a few links to back that up (off-list or on the > legal list if you think it's too off-topic)?  To my knowledge the > enforceability is spotty and unclear. Trying to find

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 SteveC : > Read the wikipedia entry on tit for tat, and iterated prisoners dilemma. That's just it, I'm trying to avoid the conjecture in coming up with an opinion on if this is a good thing or not for me and my contributions or not. ie am I wasting time contributing to OSM if my contri

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Anthony : > Might want to check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click-through_license .  A > quick scan finds one case where the license was found unenforceable (because > it was unconscionable), and several where it was found enforceable. As I said, the judgement I'm thinking of was a few

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Anthony : > I prefer 1.  Of course, what works for you isn't the same as what works for > me.  I'm fine with everything being public domain.  Why an open content > project would try to place restrictions on the use of a collection of facts > is beyond me. If GPLv3 was inspired by Tivo, I

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] my views on the ODbL

2009-12-05 Thread John Smith
2009/12/6 Anthony : > What, you say, you already had that right anyway?  Well, here in the US, I > already have the right to copy and redistribute the OSM database. Depends what laws the laws in your jurisdictions are derived from. Sometimes it's anything goes unless you aren't allowed to do it.

Re: [OSM-talk] How is there not any creative-type (US) copyright in OSM data?

2009-12-06 Thread John Smith
2009/12/7 Anthony : >> But I would argue that a selection of a finite set from an infinite >> possible nodes that can represent the centerline of a road is a sufficiently >> creative endeavor that is automatically afforded copyright according to the >> US copyright system. > > Inaccuracy isn't copy

Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ...

2009-12-06 Thread John Smith
2009/12/7 Graham Seaman : > This is the aspect of the whole thing I find most worrying too: this > signover of rights to a centralised body makes external attack much more > possible. Is it really necessary for the OSMF to have both functions > (management and rights ownership)? For example, I woul

Re: [OSM-talk] ??? Compatibility of OSM w/ CC-BY-SA sources ???

2009-12-07 Thread John Smith
2009/12/8 Paul Houle : >    My major concern with a license change is compatibility with > CC-BY-SA sources such as dbpedia,  wikipedia,  etc. > >    So far as I'm concerned,  dbpedia and freebase are the core of a > linked data space that assigns taxonomic identifiers to (most) "things" > that exi

Re: [OSM-talk] Coastlines and Structures

2009-12-07 Thread John Smith
2009/12/8 David Fawcett : > I have some questions about standard practices for coastlines and > structures that define or protrude from the coast.  Is there a > specific place for discussion of this topic area, or is this list the > best place? For tagging, there is now a tagging list to discuss s

Re: [OSM-talk] How is there not any creative-type (US) copyright in OSM data?

2009-12-07 Thread John Smith
2009/12/8 Anthony : > But if it's copyrighted, who owns the copyright on it?  Each person who uses > the tag?  The people who participate in the list discussion?  The OSMF? You own the copyright on your changes but you also agreed to release it at present under CC-BY-SA, as does everyone else, so

Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started

2009-12-08 Thread John Smith
2009/12/8 Ed Avis : > John Smith gmail.com> writes: > >>If GPLv3 was inspired by Tivo, I think this license is somewhat >>inspired by Google and other commercial mapping companies, who have a >>habbit of sucking in all the data they can get their hands on and

Re: [OSM-talk] Question that will not be asked

2009-12-09 Thread John Smith
2009/12/9 Pieren : > - yes and consider all my data PD Umm what happens in jurisdictions where PD isnt' applicable? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Deleting Sections of AND data for India

2009-12-09 Thread John Smith
2009/12/9 Shalabh : > Is there anyway the AND data can be segmented such that it can be deleted in > sections and a new track with correct attributes put in as and when a mapper > gets the correct data? Now I am a BIG 0 as a programmer, so if this is a no > go, what else can be done? Any suggestion

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