Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Hello! It is Pride Month and the US just legalised queer marriage in every state. No better time to start a conversation about including the internationally recognised rainbow flag in Unicode! Here’s some background reading on the flag itself: *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_flag_(LGBT_mo

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

2015-06-27 19:26 GMT+02:00 Noah Slater : > c. Image distinctiveness: the rainbow flag is visually distinct. > Not so distinct from several other former rainbow flags used in South America. In fact the number of colours in the rainbow varies culturally depending on countries, even when it is inte

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Sat, 27 Jun 2015 at 19:49 Philippe Verdy wrote: > 2015-06-27 19:26 GMT+02:00 Noah Slater : > >> c. Image distinctiveness: the rainbow flag is visually distinct. >> > > Not so distinct from several other former rainbow flags used in South > America. > > In fact the number of colours in the rain

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Nothing really needs to be added to Unicode; vendors could already use: 🏳‍🌈 U+1F3F3, U+200D, U+1F308 WAVING WHITE FLAG, ZERO WIDTH JOINER, RAINBOW credit to Shervin for the idea Mark *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Noah Sl

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Mark, are there any other instances of a ZERO WIDTH JOINER being used in this way? (i.e. Outside of its intended use with Arabic and Indic scripts, etc.) Please excuse my ignorance. On 27 June 2015 at 20:06, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: > Nothing really needs to be added to Unicode; vendors could alread

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

A zero-width joiner between two spacing symbols does not mean that they should overlap completely, even if it allows some limtied form of ligature (but mostly for true letters or letter like symbols, such as between a long dash and an arrow head to connect them together in a long arrow...) Your ide

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Take a look at http://unicode.org/reports/tr51/ for details. Mark *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Noah Slater wrote: > Mark, are there any other instances of a ZERO WIDTH JOINER being used in > this way? (i.e. Outside of it

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote: > A zero-width joiner between two spacing symbols does not mean that they > should overlap completely, even if it allows some limtied form of ligature > (but mostly for true letters or letter like symbols, such as between a long > dash and an

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

This UTR just addresses the case of a combining coloring symbol for faces and those color symbols were designed since the begining to be combined as much as possible (and not meant to be used in isolation), this is not the case of the rainbow symbol which is much more figurative). Why would associ

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote: > > Why would associating a flag and a rainbow this way means the flag will > just be recolored (but the rainbox form itself is completely lost)? > Couldn't this be to display a flying flag over a sky with a rainbow? > Compare this to the as

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

I think it's a bit of a stretch to propose that a rainbow flag is a "white flag" and "rainbow" ligature. That's certainly well beyond any understanding I have of what a ligature is, from a typographical perspective. On Sat, 27 Jun 2015 at 22:23 Pierpaolo Bernardi wrote: > On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

U+1F3F3, U+200D, U+2620 WAVING WHITE FLAG, ZERO WIDTH JOINER, SKULL AND CROSSBONES Wanna this one, too :) Konstantin 2015-06-27 23:06 GMT+04:00 Mark Davis ☕️ : > Nothing really needs to be added to Unicode; vendors could already use: > > 🏳‍[image: 🌈] > U+1F3F3, U+200D, U+1F308 > WAVING WHITE F

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Philippe and others, You are missing the relevant parts of UTR #51. See: • http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Multi_Person_Groupings • http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#ZWJ_Sequences

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Actually, U+1F3F4, U+200D, U+2620 WAVING BLACK FLAG, ZERO WIDTH JOINER, SKULL AND CROSSBONES Konstantin 2015-06-28 1:46 GMT+04:00 Konstantin Ritt : > U+1F3F3, U+200D, U+2620 > WAVING WHITE FLAG, ZERO WIDTH JOINER, SKULL AND CROSSBONES > > Wanna this one, too :) > > > Konstantin > > 2015-06-27

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 27 Jun 2015, at 22:46, Konstantin Ritt wrote: > > U+1F3F3, U+200D, U+2620 > WAVING WHITE FLAG, ZERO WIDTH JOINER, SKULL AND CROSSBONES And thus the slippery slope is well and truly discovered. Gosh, I wish we could add capital equivalents to all (or most of) the un-cased lower-case letters

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Me too. Not becuse the semantic of the flag is not lost but because here the relation with the rainbow is much less evident, as the flag does not mean the meteorological object or the internaction of solar light with the atomosphere, but only a few of its colors ordered not just like what happens i

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

No I had read it, the persons are still clearly separate. The "rainbow" on the flag is not in fact a rainbow, only its colours. The groups of persons are showing persons themselves, side by side, not one into the other one or one indirectly drawn on the face of another one. This new proposal of u

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Thanks to Philippe for the addition of technical arguments in favour of a new code point. This is... a little beyond me. (Though fascinating reading!) I would particularly like to add me +1 to the knock-on effect this would have on downstream vendors. (I would like to see this become a standard emo

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Noah Slater wrote: I found this: [...] the UTC does not wish to entertain further proposals for encoding of symbol characters for flags, whether national, state, regional, international, or otherwise. References to UTC Minutes: [134-C2], January 28, 2013. http://www.unicode.org/alloc/nonapp

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 28 June 2015 at 01:33, Doug Ewell wrote: > > I think the phrase "or otherwise" above might have been intended to mean > "or otherwise." > Perhaps. I'm hoping not. I think there is a strong case for the inclusion of the symbol given that Twitter (one of the largest electronic communication pl

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

2015-06-28 2:33 GMT+02:00 Doug Ewell : > Noah Slater wrote: > > I found this: >> >> [...] the UTC does not wish to entertain further proposals for >>> encoding of symbol characters for flags, whether national, state, >>> regional, international, or otherwise. References to UTC Minutes: >>> [134

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

2015年6月28日 上午11:49於 "Philippe Verdy" 寫道： > > 2015-06-28 2:33 GMT+02:00 Doug Ewell : >> >> Noah Slater wrote: >> >>> I found this: >>> [...] the UTC does not wish to entertain further proposals for encoding of symbol characters for flags, whether national, state, regional, internatio

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

gfb hjjhjh wrote: Wouldn't the existence of Regional Indicator Symbols(=those flag symbols) themselves avoided the need of adding new regional/national/ international flags already? and the 2013 addition do not add flag themselves to the unicode, just some special form of letters that can be us

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

More: [...] the UTC does not wish to entertain further proposals for encoding of symbol characters for flags, whether national, state, regional, international, or otherwise. References to UTC Minutes: [134-C2], January 28, 2013. This is also why U+1F3C1 CHEQUERED FLAG doesn't set a precedent f

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Sorry to be a pain. I mentioned I looked up the minutes and couldn't find anything apropos. Could someone explain the rational behind 134-C2 and how it might apply to the rainbow flag proposal ? On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 at 20:04 Doug Ewell wrote: > More: > > >> [...] the UTC does not wish to entert

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Noah Slater wrote: Sorry to be a pain. I mentioned I looked up the minutes and couldn't find anything apropos. Could someone explain the rational behind 134-C2 and how it might apply to the rainbow flag proposal ? The following is informal and dilettante, since only a UTC officer can give a

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Thanks for summarising that in an email, Doug. I really wish they'd provided a justification for this statement! :) I guess that this is the right list for a UTC officer to give some sort of feedback. On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 at 21:23 Doug Ewell wrote: > Noah Slater wrote: > > > Sorry to be a pain.

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Another way the Pride Flag might be mapped into Unicode without adding code points would be to use a REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL pair corresponding to an unallocated ISO3166-1 alpha-2 sequence. U+1F1F6 + U+1F1F7, for example, might be an appropriate choice. Sent from my iPhone

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

QR for... ? Queer Rainbow? :) On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 at 23:52 Steve Swales wrote: > Another way the Pride Flag might be mapped into Unicode without adding > code points would be to use a REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL pair corresponding > to an unallocated ISO3166-1 alpha-2 sequence. U+1F1F6 + U+1F1F7,

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 28 Jun 2015, at 23:02, Steve Swales wrote: > > Another way the Pride Flag might be mapped into Unicode without adding code > points would be to use a REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL pair corresponding to an > unallocated ISO3166-1 alpha-2 sequence. U+1F1F6 + U+1F1F7, for example, > might be an a

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Michael Everson wrote: On 28 Jun 2015, at 23:02, Steve Swales wrote: Another way the Pride Flag might be mapped into Unicode without adding code points would be to use a REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL pair corresponding to an unallocated ISO3166-1 alpha-2 sequence. U+1F1F6 + U+1F1F7, for example,

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

QR is actually in the so called "user-assigned" area, so unlikely it will be officially assigned, but also hard to standardize as anything in particular. -steve Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 28, 2015, at 4:20 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > >> On 28 Jun 2015, at 23:02, Steve Swales wrote: >

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Noah, Additional information you should have is that the UTC is about to publish a new Public Review Issue on the topic of an extended mechanism for the representation of more flag emoji with sequences of tag characters. (Note: *not* representation as encoded single character symbols.) That PRI,

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Ken, I know that U+1F308 is RAINBOW ... because my nameslist lookup tool tells me so ... T C UTF-8 Codepoint : Name : Annotations 1 🌈 C2_A0 1F308 RAINBOW ... but could 🌈 also be a 'rainbow (flag)'

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Thanks for the reply, Ken! Comments inline. On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 at 15:50 Ken Whistler wrote: > There is no effective end to the "or otherwise" case for flags as symbols, > and that is why they are "generally not amenable to representation by > encoded characters". > Well. Arguably, Unicode repr

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

2015年6月30日 上午1:13於 "Noah Slater" wrote： > > Thanks for the reply, Ken! Comments inline. > > On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 at 15:50 Ken Whistler wrote: >> >> There is no effective end to the "or otherwise" case for flags as symbols, and that is why they are "generally not amenable to representation by encode

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

The way I see U+1F308 drawn in my browser (using the image linked from Google in the HTML below), is that it represents a rainbow sat on two clouds (not evident at small sizes to se that these are clouds as they just look like blue open curves) This is also strange because rainbows are normally not

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 29 June 2015 at 20:04, gfb hjjhjh wrote: > > As an outsider, In my opinion, it is very common for people to write > sentences like "[image: 🙇] Really sorry!" or "[image: 👌] let's meet > there tomorroe" or "The [image: 🍔] is tasty" even before unicode's > introduction of these characters, but I

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Richard Cook wrote: > Ken, > > I know that U+1F308 is RAINBOW ... because my nameslist lookup tool tells > me so ... > > TCUTF-8Codepoint : Name : Annotations1[image: 🌈]C2_A01F308 RAINBOW > > > > .

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

> On Jun 30, 2015, at 9:11 AM, Garth Wallace wrote: > > I don't think display of U+1F308 as a rainbow flag would be expected > behavior. It risks turning a text like "It's a beautiful day! " into a > political statement. Garth, Any statement can be a political statement, in the right con

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

That same glyph turns up as this, for me: http://i.imgur.com/3XQ96SA.png Which is part of the problem. "Rainbow" could mean anything. That the Apple version happens to look a bit like a flag (a weird square flag that looks almost nothing like the queer pride flag) is largely immaterial. On Tue,

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Richard Cook wrote: > > > > > On Jun 30, 2015, at 9:11 AM, Garth Wallace wrote: > > I don't think display of U+1F308 as a rainbow flag would be expected > behavior. It risks turning a text like "It's a beautiful day! [image: 🌈]" > into a political statement. > >

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

2015年6月30日 上午8:53於 "Noah Slater" 寫道： > > > > On 29 June 2015 at 20:04, gfb hjjhjh wrote: >> >> As an outsider, In my opinion, it is very common for people to write sentences like " Really sorry!" or " let's meet there tomorroe" or "The is tasty" even before unicode's introduction of these characte

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

I already did, in my original mail! On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 at 21:12 gfb hjjhjh wrote: > > 2015年6月30日 上午8:53於 "Noah Slater" 寫道： > > > > > > > > On 29 June 2015 at 20:04, gfb hjjhjh wrote: > >> > >> As an outsider, In my opinion, it is very common for people to write > sentences like " Really sorry!

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

sage- From: Ken Whistler Sender: "Unicode" Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 07:50:20 To: Noah Slater Cc: Subject: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode Noah, Additional information you should have is that the UTC is about to publish a new Public Review Issue on the topic of an extended mec

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

wrote: > Whatever notation that might be added to whatever decision is > ultimately made on this should probably mention historic use of the > rainbow flag by the peace movement. See for example: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_flag#Rainbow_flag The colors of the rainbow peace flag (purp

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 7/2/2015 2:01 AM, Philippe Verdy wrote: The frozen status of Antarctica ... ... will be addressed separately by global warming. But be that as it may... In really there's still no standard way to encode flags unambiguously and in a stable way. We'd like to have FOTW (Flags of the World

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

To add some information that people like Noah may not be aware of: This email list is an open, public list for arbitrary discussions about Unicode and software internationalization. It is *not* an email list for consortium business—the vast majority of the people on it are *not* members of the Uni

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Why not add another 26 A-Z characters, call them "regional supplementary symbols", and let carriers decide what to encode and how to encode what they want with sequences * to their hearts' content? Leo On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Ken Whistler wrote: > > On 7/2/2015 2:01 AM, Philippe Verdy

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Again, that has no advantage over PUA characters. Carriers/vendors can *already* add whatever PUA characters they want to fonts and keyboards. But of course, the problem is interoperability; you send a flag to a friend for your favorite vacation spot, Florida, and the friend sees a flag for New Jer

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

With extensible self-delimited regional indicator sequences the carriers will be able to come to an agreement and to petition Unicode to register them as named character sequences symbolizing flags not encoded by an ISO entity, like various rainbow flags, making sure that the format of such sequenc

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Leo Broukhis wrote: > With extensible self-delimited regional indicator sequences the > carriers will be able to come to an agreement and to petition Unicode > to register them as named character sequences symbolizing flags not > encoded by an ISO entity, like various rainbow flags, making sure t

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Ken Whistler wrote: > The UTC is neither responsible for nor interested in a "standard way > to encode flags unambiguously". > > [...] > > The Unicode Standard is not a vexillology standard -- nor will it ever > be. It is a standard for the encoding and interchange of characters. Even though I c

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Currently a sequence of regional indicator symbols is parsed unambiguously by greedily taking pairs of RIS chars and interpreting them as ISO 3166-1 alpha 2 codes. If REGIONAL INDICATOR DASH and REGIONAL INDICATOR digits are added, along with regional supplementary symbols, then sequences * can be

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 7/2/2015 12:33 PM, Leo Broukhis wrote: If REGIONAL INDICATOR DASH and REGIONAL INDICATOR digits are added, along with regional supplementary symbols, then sequences * can be parsed unambiguously as ISO 3166-2, whereas + can be parsed as a named sequence signifying a flag of a non-governmenta

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

What I don't like about PRI #399 is its proposing to use default-ignorable characters. On a non-vexillology-aware platform, I'd like to see something informative, albeit not resembling a flag, but indicative of the intention to display a flag, like RIS can be, as opposed to nondescript white flags.

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Doug Ewell wrote: > Ken Whistler wrote: > >> The UTC is neither responsible for nor interested in a "standard way >> to encode flags unambiguously". >> >> [...] >> >> The Unicode Standard is not a vexillology standard -- nor will it ever >> be. It is a standard fo

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 7/2/2015 5:56 PM, Peter Constable wrote: Erkki, in this case, I think Philippe is making valid points. -For the proposal to be workable requires some means of ensuring stability of encoded representations. The way this would be done would be for CLDR to provide data with all valid sequen

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Ken Whistler wrote: But the current RIS pair mechanism for representing flag pictographs for countries is already "workable" -- it works and is widely deployed and widely used -- without having guarantees that some particular country may not decide tomorrow to change its official flag and hence

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Ken Whistler wrote: > Incidentally, back to the ostensible topic of this thread -- I don't > think the extended flag tag proposal currently addresses the issue > of how to represent a pictograph for a rainbow flag. It doesn't. > In that case I think a new registry mechanism might in fact make s

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 7/6/2015 8:26 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: Ken Whistler wrote: In that case I think a new registry mechanism might in fact make sense -- and I have spelled out details of how one could reasonably work in conjunction with the extended flag tag proposal in feedback submitted on PRI #299. Is this

RE: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Ken Whistler wrote: > On the other hand, it might make sense to wait and see if it gains any > traction when the UTC meets later this month and considers all of the > feedback on the extended flag tag PRI #299 proposal together. If the > concept of a Unicode flag pictograph registry garners no in

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Or a flag inversion modifier… recently I discovered that the Philippines flag, for example, has a special meaning (we are at war) when inverted. Just a thought. -steve > On Jul 1, 2015, at 10:38 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > > wrote: > >> Whatever notation that might be added to whatever decisio

RE: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Steve Swales wrote: > Or a flag inversion modifier… recently I discovered that the > Philippines flag, for example, has a special meaning (we are at war) > when inverted. Just a thought. An inverted ensign on a ship was formerly used as a distress signal: http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xf-fl

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On 7/6/2015 9:42 AM, Steve Swales wrote: Or a flag inversion modifier… recently I discovered that the Philippines flag, for example, has a special meaning (we are at war) when inverted. Just a thought. Rather than modifiers, I think a more natural thi

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Asmus Freytag (t) wrote: > On 7/6/2015 9:42 AM, Steve Swales wrote: > > Or a flag inversion modifier… recently I discovered that the Philippines > flag, for example, has a special meaning (we are at war) when inverted. > Just a thought. > > > Rather than modifiers,

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Previously in this thread, it was suggested that I make a formal proposal to the UTC. I have held back from doing this because it's not at all clear what implementation I should be proposing, or whether I can propose something WITHOUT an implementation. (Some advise there would be handy!) Should I

RE: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

I never said anything about stability of geopolitical entities. I only mentioned stability of encoded character sequences. Peter From: Ken Whistler [mailto:kenwhist...@att.net] Sent: Friday, July 3, 2015 11:24 AM To: Peter Constable Cc: unicode@unicode.org Subject: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Disclaimer: These are only suggestions. I've never submitted a character proposal. You should prefer the advice of people who have, or of UTC members who evaluate proposals. Noah Slater wrote: > Previously in this thread, it was suggested that I make a formal > proposal to the UTC. I have held b

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Thanks Doug. That's very helpful. On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 at 17:07 Doug Ewell wrote: > Disclaimer: These are only suggestions. I've never submitted a character > proposal. You should prefer the advice of people who have, or of UTC > members who evaluate proposals. > > Noah Slater wrote: > > > Previo

vexillology, was: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Ken Whistler wrote: >> vexillology > Garth Wallace wrote: > > Tangentially, I recently ran across something called International > Flag Identification Symbols. It's a symbolic notation for vexillology > that describes their use of flags and some aspects of their design but > not enough to reprod

Re: vexillology, was: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

On Jul 7, 2015, at 7:53 AM, Richard Cook wrote: > > Ken Whistler wrote: >>> vexillology > > >> Garth Wallace wrote: >> >> Tangentially, I recently ran across something called International >> Flag Identification Symbols. It's a symbolic notation for vexillology >> that describes their use of f

Re: vexillology, was: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

As I recall, António Martins-Tuválkin and Anshuman Pandey both submitted proposals on this subject in 2007 or 2008 and in 2012 respectively. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

PRI #299 (was: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode)

Leo Broukhis wrote: What I don't like about PRI #399 is its proposing to use default- ignorable characters. On a non-vexillology-aware platform, I'd like to see something informative, albeit not resembling a flag, but indicative of the intention to display a flag, like RIS can be, as opposed to

[OT] Versioning flags (was: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode)

gfb hjjhjh wrote: > As I read, should those flag be versioned when being use?As the > curremt implementation sound like those flag would change all over the > time, and if people using the emoticon with country X's flag on it to > show support for its current government, once the government have

Re: PRI #299 (was: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode)

On 7/3/2015 12:50 PM, Doug Ewell wrote: Leo Broukhis wrote: What I don't like about PRI #399 is its proposing to use default- ignorable characters. On a non-vexillology-aware platform, I'd like to see somethi

Re: PRI #299 (was: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode)

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Doug Ewell wrote: > Leo Broukhis wrote: > >> What I don't like about PRI #399 is its proposing to use default- >> ignorable characters. On a non-vexillology-aware platform, I'd like >> to see something informative, albeit not resembling a flag, but >> indicative o

Stationary vs. waving flags (was: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode)

Asmus Freytag (t) wrote: > Rather than modifiers, I think a more natural thing would be to have > different base characters that reflect whether it's a flag, a pennant, > waving, flying from a flag stock or whatever other variety. > > Base characters could be limited to an "approved" list, which

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

The UTC is considering a proposal to extend the types of flags which can be reliably represented by certain sequences of Unicode characters. In addition to the current mechanism using pairs of regional indicator symbols—already widely implemented—

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

I oppose this proposal for the simple reason that it thinks hyphen separations are not necessary. Possibly true today but there will be extensions in some future needing more than 2 letters or 3 digits in the primary subtag. even for iso 3166-2 the regional subtags are very likely to change and wi

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Can someone help me understand what this means for my rainbow flag proposal? On Wed, 1 Jul 2015 at 10:02 Philippe Verdy wrote: > I oppose this proposal for the simple reason that it thinks hyphen > separations are not necessary. Possibly true today but there will be > extensions in some future n

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Noah Slater wrote: > Can someone help me understand what this means for my rainbow flag > proposal? You may want to go back and read Ken Whistler's suggestion from Monday: > I suggest that this thread about the RAINBOW FLAG be > directed to the soon-to-be-posted Public Review Issue about extend

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Noah Slater wrote: > Can someone help me understand what this means for my rainbow flag > proposal? > AFAIK, it's not going to have any effect on what you're proposing. This is a mechanism for flags of sub-regions with ISO 3166-2 codes; e.g. US States, countries a

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Shervin Afshar wrote: > This is a mechanism for flags of sub-regions with ISO 3166-2 codes; > e.g. US States, countries and provinces of the UK, Tibet, etc. The Tibet Autonomous Region (CN-54), like other regions in China except Hong Kong and Macao, has no official flag. Although this is what

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > > The Tibet Autonomous Region (CN-54), like other regions in China except > Hong Kong and Macao, has no official flag. > > Although this is what some users might expect, implementing or > interpreting "[flag]CN54" as the snow-lion flag, associa

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Thanks Doug. On Wed, 1 Jul 2015 at 17:45 Doug Ewell wrote: > > In other, other words, something like "[flag]LGBT" should be a > non-starter. > Followed until this bit. Why would it be a non-starter? > If you are still suggesting a single character, this thread doesn't > affect that suggestion

RE: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Noah Slater wrote: >> In other, other words, something like "[flag]LGBT" should be a >> non-starter. > > Followed until this bit. Why would it be a non-starter? First, because under the proposal described in the PRI, it would unequivocally stand for "region LG, subdivision BT". As it happens, th

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

And today's Chinese province ofTibet is different from the historic Tibet, as China incorporated other surrounding areas, including some parts taken from Bhutan (a small part around Legaru, and a larger part to the North) and India (some parts to the West from states of Jammu and Kashmir, which its

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

*​Please take political discussions elsewhere; they do not belong on this list.* The point about the boundaries of regions changing over time, and flags being associated with a former set of boundaries could have been made in a few sentences. Not only would it have avoided politics, it would have

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

The political subject is immediately related to the designation of flags and their association to ISO 3166-1 and -2 encoded entities. Even if you don't like it, this is very political and for a standard seeking for stability, I wonder how any flag (directly bound to specific political entities at s

VS: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

I cannot but agree with Mark! Thus, please… Sincerely, Erkki Lähettäjä: Unicode [mailto:unicode-boun...@unicode.org] Puolesta Philippe Verdy Lähetetty: 2. heinäkuuta 2015 12:02 Vastaanottaja: Mark Davis ☕️ Kopio: Doug Ewell; Unicode Mailing List Aihe: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Ok. I wasn't clear enough. Certainly boundaries are political and relevant, as is the fact that they change. What is not relevant is talking about particular country's motivations and actions. Moreover, you insist about writing a tome about this. In other words, TL;DR. Mark

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

It was not just about it but on the fact that nothing is solved and for things that Unicode does not want to support, there should be a better way using existing standards to bind some object with semantics taken from a blind but easily parsable object (here an URI ,without the need to reinvent a w

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Philippe's core argument is that geopolitical entities and flags (as a specific instances of a design, in the heraldic sense) are disjoint. And that using geopolitical codes to refer to these designs is inherently unstable. On Thu, 2 Jul 2015 at 13:26 Phi

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

Noah Slater wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like Philippe's core argument is that geopolitical entities and flags (as a specific instances of a design, in the heraldic sense) are disjoint. And that using geopolitical codes to refer to these designs is inherently unstable. But the

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

I wrote: But the only alternative is to encode about 200 discrete emoji [...] Here I am assuming that UTC will not shift gears and approve an "embedded URI" scheme, which sounds way too much like localizable you-know-whats. -- Doug Ewell | http://ewellic.org | Thornton, CO 🇺🇸

Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

As I read, should those flag be versioned when being use?As the curremt implementation sound like those flag would change all over the time, and if people using the emoticon with country X's flag on it to show support for its current government, once the government have been overthrown and the over

RE: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags)

n Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 5:42 PM To: verd...@wanadoo.fr; 'Mark Davis ☕️' Cc: 'Doug Ewell'; 'Unicode Mailing List' Subject: VS: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode (Fwd: Representing Additional Types of Flags) I cannot but agree with Mark! Thus, please… Sin

Re: Stationary vs. waving flags (was: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode)

2015-07-06 17:11 GMT-03:00 Doug Ewell : > Is it your belief that users who wish to display an emoji flag care > whether the flag is shown stationary versus flapping in the wind? I think a waving white flag is an emoji symbol for "truce/surrender/come in peace", whereas a white rectangle doesn't ea

RE: Stationary vs. waving flags (was: Re: Adding RAINBOW FLAG to Unicode)

Leonardo Boiko wrote: >> Is it your belief that users who wish to display an emoji flag care >> whether the flag is shown stationary versus flapping in the wind? > > I think a waving white flag is an emoji symbol for > "truce/surrender/come in peace", whereas a white rectangle doesn't > easily tr

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