Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-02 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
oh, I completely misunderstood your question, Phil. The answer is: none. It's a rendering artefact. Dominik On 2 October 2011 23:47, Zdenek Wagner wrote: > 2011/10/2 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) : > > > > > > Cyril Niklaus wrote: > > > >> Because that's how his name is spelled. You have

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-02 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/10/2 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) : > > > Cyril Niklaus wrote: > >> Because that's how his name is spelled.  You have guttural, palatal, >> retroflex and dental n in Devanāgarī, respectively ङ ṅa >> ; ञ ña; ण ṇa and न na. > > Yes, but all "n" variants are normally the same size, modulo the

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-02 Thread Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
Cyril Niklaus wrote: Because that's how his name is spelled. You have guttural, palatal, retroflex and dental n in Devanāgarī, respectively ङ ṅa ; ञ ña; ण ṇa and न na. Yes, but all "n" variants are normally the same size, modulo the diacritics. The guttural na is transcribed using a supe

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-02 Thread Cyril Niklaus
On 2 oct. 2011, at 22:40, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > Dominik -- > >> Several commentaries on the Bhagavadgītā have also >> been typed into the computer, including those of >> Śaṅkara, Yāmuna, Rāmānuja and Jñānadeva. > > What is the significance (if any) of the extra-high "ṅ" > in

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-02 Thread Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
Dominik -- Several commentaries on the Bhagavadgītā have also been typed into the computer, including those of Śaṅkara, Yāmuna, Rāmānuja and Jñānadeva. What is the significance (if any) of the extra-high "ṅ" in "Śaṅkara" ? ** Phil. -- Subscrip

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-02 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
Dear Anant, Bellamkonda Ramaraya kavi (1875-1914 AD, Andhra Pradesh) was a respected Vedānta philosopher who wrote many works, including a sub-commentary called *Gītābhāṣyārkaprakāśikā* (गीताभाष्यार्कप्रकाशिका), on Śaṅkara Bhagavatpāda's commentary Gītābhāṣya (गीताभाष्य) on the Bhagavadgītā (भगवद्

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-01 Thread Shrisha Rao
El oct 2, 2011, a las 7:21 a.m., A u escribió: > Hello Mr. Shirisha Rao, > I am trying to type shankara bhashyam on Bhagwadgeeta by "Shri Bellamkonda > Rama raya kavi" my goal is to make it available on all indian languages. > I was wondering if you can help me in this regard. > I saw your exam

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-10-01 Thread A u
Hello Mr. Shirisha Rao, I am trying to type shankara bhashyam on Bhagwadgeeta by "Shri Bellamkonda Rama raya kavi" my goal is to make it available on all indian languages. I was wondering if you can help me in this regard. I saw your example, it produces output in many languages. my latex knowledge

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
Alessandro and I agree to disagree about the issue of philological correctness. I think that hyphenating following etymology, lexicon and morphemic boundaries is *more* philological than "break after a vowel." I think what Alessandro means by philology in this case is that he is influenced by the

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread alessandro graheli
Thanks to Dominik for presenting my needs for hyphenating romanised Sanskrit according to the syllabic division of Sanskrit traditional phonetics. For a number of reasons, in my philologically-oriented work I prefer to typeset Sanskrit words as faithfully as possible to the sources, and the

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
Dominik Wujastyk wrote: > Gasp! A CRT! Sir. You have the honour to be communicating with (in the words of my former manager, David Sweeney) a DINOSAUR. What else would you expect a dinosaur to use but an IBM Model M clicky keyboard and a 19" CRT monitor ?! ** Phil, still wondering what chan

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
Gasp! A CRT! -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
Mojca Miklavec wrote: > Why do you type Ret'd they're "helico-pter" instead of Ret’d they’re > “helico-pter” ? You are unicode-aware, aren't you? Mojca Unicode-aware, but not Unicode-typing. This (like my earlier reply) is typed on an IBM Model M keyboard (the real thing, clicky, dating from c

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/9/12 Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) : > > > Mojca Miklavec wrote: >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:09, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) >> wrote: >>> I wish I understood more about the "duplicate apostophe" problem, in order >>> to be able to offer a more directly relevant (and constructive) c

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Pander
On 2011-09-12 13:18, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > > > Mojca Miklavec wrote: >> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:09, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) >> wrote: >>> I wish I understood more about the "duplicate apostophe" problem, in order >>> to be able to offer a more directly relevant (a

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
Mojca Miklavec wrote: > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:09, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) > wrote: >> I wish I understood more about the "duplicate apostophe" problem, in order >> to be able to offer a more directly relevant (and constructive) comment : >> Google throws up nothing relevant. > User

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
But I wrote /primarily/ on etymology, not /solely/ : would you (or Hugh Williamson) seek to argue even with that ?! After all, only a language the hyphenation of which is primarily etymology-based could possibly come up with "helico-pter" :-) ** Phil. ---

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
I've just had a stimulating conversation about this with my friend and fellow Sanskritist, Alessandro Graheli (who also reads this XeTeX list, and is doing critical editions of Sanskrit texts with XeTeX). Alessandro was concerned that I overstated the case. He has used the existing Codet/Kew hyph

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:09, Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote: > > I wish > I understood more about the "duplicate apostophe" problem, in order > to be able to offer a more directly relevant (and constructive) comment : > Google throws up nothing relevant. Users type ' (U+0027) and expect

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
Dear Phil, You should know better. :-) In 1993 you invited me to give a talk about hyphenation at RHBNC. I started out my lecture by demolishing the old chestnut that British is hyphenated etymologically while American isn't. Reality is much more blurry. Hugh Williamson got it right, as so oft

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Philip TAYLOR (Webmaster, Ret'd)
Jonathan Kew wrote: > On 12 Sep 2011, at 08:59, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > >> Arthur had some plans to cover normalization in hyph-utf8, but I >> already hate the idea of duplicated apostrophe, > > That's a bit different, and hard to see how we could avoid it except via > special-case code somewhere

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Jonathan Kew
On 12 Sep 2011, at 08:59, Mojca Miklavec wrote: > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 09:36, Yves Codet wrote: >> Hello. >> >> A question to specialists, Arthur and Mojca maybe :) Is it necessary to have >> two sets of hyphenation rules, one in NFC and one in NFD? Or, if hyphenation >> patterns are writte

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/9/12 Mojca Miklavec : > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 09:36, Yves Codet wrote: >> Hello. >> >> A question to specialists, Arthur and Mojca maybe :) Is it necessary to have >> two sets of hyphenation rules, one in NFC and one in NFD? Or, if hyphenation >> patterns are written in NFC, for instance,

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 09:36, Yves Codet wrote: > Hello. > > A question to specialists, Arthur and Mojca maybe :) Is it necessary to have > two sets of hyphenation rules, one in NFC and one in NFD? Or, if hyphenation > patterns are written in NFC, for instance, will they be applied correctly to

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-12 Thread Yves Codet
Hello. A question to specialists, Arthur and Mojca maybe :) Is it necessary to have two sets of hyphenation rules, one in NFC and one in NFD? Or, if hyphenation patterns are written in NFC, for instance, will they be applied correctly to a document written in NFD? Regards, Yves

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-11 Thread Yves Codet
Le 11 sept. 2011 à 20:40, Dominik Wujastyk a écrit : > To get appropriate hyphenation in Romanisation, we need to go down the Patgen > path. So we need to develop a large lexicon of appropriately-hyphenated > romanised Sanskrit words in UTF8 encoding, and when that list is reasonably > long,

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-11 Thread Yves Codet
Hello, Neal. I still don't receive your messages :( Le 11 sept. 2011 à 22:21, Zdenek Wagner a écrit : >> Also Zdenek raises an interesting possibility. If I were to want to typeset >> Sanskrit, say this very Sanskrit, in Bengali or Telugu script. How would I >> go about that? >> > Probably yo

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-11 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico : > Thanks to both Yves and Zdenek for your suggestions and examples.  The > hyphenation is working now in both Devanagari and Roman Translit.  I'd have > never figured it out on my own.  If I were to want to read more on this > where would I look? > Frankly I do not know.

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-11 Thread Neal Delmonico
Thanks to both Yves and Zdenek for your suggestions and examples. The hyphenation is working now in both Devanagari and Roman Translit. I'd have never figured it out on my own. If I were to want to read more on this where would I look? Also Zdenek raises an interesting possibility. If I

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-11 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
Sanskrit is hyphenated differently in Devanagari and in Roman script. If you use the hyph-sa.tex patterns, you get Roman hyphenated *as if it were Devanagari,* which is not acceptable in scholarly circles. The last 150 years of European writing on Sanskrit, using Romanisation, has developed hyphe

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-11 Thread Yves Codet
Hello, Neal. You could do something like this to have correct hyphenations: \documentclass[12pt]{article} \usepackage{fontspec} \setmainfont{Charis SIL} \newfontfamily\sanskritfont[Script=Devanagari]{Sanskrit 2003} \usepackage{polyglossia} \setmainlanguage{english} \setotherlanguage{sanskrit} \n

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Neal Delmonico
Thanks! How would one set it up so that the English portions are hyphenated according to English rules and the transliteration is hyphenated according to Sanskrit rules? Best Neal On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:40:51 -0500, Zdenek Wagner wrote: 2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico : Here is the source f

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico : > Here is the source files for the pdf.  Sorry to take so long to send them. > Your default language for polygliglossia is defined as English. You switch to Sanskrit only inside the \skt macro. The text in Devanagari is therefore hyphenated according to Sanskrit rules but

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/9/11 Mojca Miklavec : > On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 00:39, Neal Delmonico wrote: >> Here is an example of what I mean in the pdf attached. > > Do I get it right that hyphenation is working, it is just that it > misses a lot of valid hyphenation points? > > You should talk to Yves Codet, the author

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 00:39, Neal Delmonico wrote: > Here is an example of what I mean in the pdf attached. Do I get it right that hyphenation is working, it is just that it misses a lot of valid hyphenation points? You should talk to Yves Codet, the author of Sanskrit patterns. But PLEASE: do

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 00:08, Neal Delmonico wrote: > How does one do that?  Where are the patterns kept and what format needs to > be rebuilt.  Sorry for being so clueless about this. The patterns are in hyph-sa.tex (kpsewhich hyph-sa.tex). Mojca -

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/9/11 Neal Delmonico : > How does one do that?  Where are the patterns kept and what format needs to > be rebuilt.  Sorry for being so clueless about this. > Sorry for the noise, I located the patterns and as Mojca wrote, the patterns for the transliteration are present. It should work out of t

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Neal Delmonico
How does one do that? Where are the patterns kept and what format needs to be rebuilt. Sorry for being so clueless about this. Best Neal On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 15:47:38 -0500, Zdenek Wagner wrote: 2011/9/10 Neal Delmonico : Greetings, I have a question. How does one get the hyphenatio

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 22:37, Neal Delmonico wrote: > Greetings, > > I have a question.  How does one get the hyphenation to work for > transliterated Sanskrit as well as it does for Sanskrit in Devenagari.  I > use the same text in Devanagari and Roman transliteration and yet in the > Devanagari

Re: [XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Zdenek Wagner
2011/9/10 Neal Delmonico : > Greetings, > > I have a question.  How does one get the hyphenation to work for > transliterated Sanskrit as well as it does for Sanskrit in Devenagari.  I > use the same text in Devanagari and Roman transliteration and yet in the > Devanagari the hyphenation works fine

[XeTeX] Hyphenation in Transliterated Sanskrit

2011-09-10 Thread Neal Delmonico
Greetings, I have a question. How does one get the hyphenation to work for transliterated Sanskrit as well as it does for Sanskrit in Devenagari. I use the same text in Devanagari and Roman transliteration and yet in the Devanagari the hyphenation works fine and in the transliteration it