Re: (313) history always favours the winners
Simple photo on the cover and all his own tracks.
M
On 5 Mar 2013, at 00:01, darnistle darnis...@cafe-ebola.com wrote:
On 3/4/2013 2:58 PM, Martin wrote:
Yeah, there's a lot to learn from history, I didn't know it was Bob Dylan
that changed the album format to what we know it as so yeah if I'm just
learning that...
m
???
In what way did he change the album format?
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{}0+|
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
On 5 Mar 2013, at 00:43, Fred Heutte ph...@sunlightdata.com wrote: But they were playing at a time when many in the same circuit (the Washington DC underground of 1977 onward) really couldn't -- including some, like Half Japanese, who made a fetish of that. Some got better, some didn't. Loved Bad Brains, played their album to death back in the day, amazing live as well. Many of us who DJ or make tracks have drawn on the DIY punk attitude -- itself an outgrowth of, among other things, the garage band ethos in the 1960s in the US, of course commemorated by Garageland by the Clash, a band who could really really play. They wrote Garageland because they got called a garage band in the NME for their gig supporting the Pistols at The Screen On The Green It's easy to overlook now the profound influence of the Ramones on the Pistols and everyone else. And what were they doing? Basically 1960s garage. Yeah, that first album was the blue print. m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
there are still a few of us African-American types working in dance
music...most of us are not caring about being 'accepted' by our brothers
and sisters who are in the mainstream. However, it's even harder to get
people on this very list to have a discussion about 313 or 313 related
music unless there is a bit of sensationalism involved, like mentioning
skrilldx.
I joined the list years ago because I hoped that I would find like
minded people here. and I have. But I really wish that there could be a
tad bit more interaction without mentioning richie, sonny, boyz, or
mnml...or for pete's sake...e d m.
The posts that I have seen that have generated the most response seem
to be along the lines of this one...and maybe I'm not posting enough
either...considering that I have many wonderful things going on at the
moment.
I am not admonishing anyone, just noticing a trend and speaking on
it...I'm going back to my room.
cheers,
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:14 PM, darnistle darnis...@cafe-ebola.com wrote:
Marcellus Pittman's album Pieces is pretty good. At times I feel like
the wool is being pulled over my eyes, but I don't mind it too much.
I've been meaning to say for a while now that Terrence Dixon's latest
release is really fabulous! I've been playing this one quite a bit!!
Juan Atkin's release on Scion Audio Visual is the best I've heard from him
in a while. The remixes are good, but the originals remind me of why I get
excited to see something new from him.
On 3/4/2013 2:20 PM, David Powers wrote:
All the house guys in Detroit are consistently putting out quality
music (your subjective enjoyment may vary of course):
Delano Smith
Norm Tally
Mike Huckaby
Rick Wade
Rick Wilhite
Moodymann
Marcellus Pittman
Theo Parrish
Scott Grooves
Kyle Hall
Omar S
Plus, had good (proper techno) albums from Robert Hood and Terrence
Dixon recently. That seems like a pretty high amount of activity as
far as I'm concerned. And this list isn't nearly complete.
~David
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com
wrote:
Back when 313 list was more active, there were a lot more subscribers
actually in the Detroit area, who were wired into what was going on,
and would post about it. I imagine there's good music happening in
Detroit that we aren't hearing about on this list because that is no
longer the case.
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Martin Dust mar...@dustscience.com
wrote:
On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote:
That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who
cares?
Not everyone shares that sentiment though.
Aye, you can see why people bite and it can be good fun but I'd be more
worried about the lack of good tunes coming out of Detroit than anything
Sonny or Boy To Noize said.
m
--
{}0+|
--
FBK
Absoloop/Orange 82
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
First of all, it's the opposite, punk was (supposedly) influenced by situationism, which really amounts to nothing more than the fact that the manager of the Sex Pistols appropriated situationist techniques--only I personally think that this appropriation was a clear example of recuperation. Teenage Exhibit 1: I fail to see how not knowing and not caring what one is doing has anything to do with liberation. Compare this to Detroit techno, where, although some artists may not initially have known what they were doing, they most certainly did care, as evidenced by Juan Atkins very successful articulation of Detroit techno as embodying a particular aesthetic approach to musical creation. 'Marcus quotes the musician Paul Westerberg as saying that he became enthralled with the Sex Pistols because “It was obvious that they didn’t know what they were doing and they didn’t care.” That statement is the core belief of all the movements that Marcus explores. He artfully shows that this is not a declaration of nihilism but a striving for liberation from what the Situationists called “The Spectacle.”' http://hcl.harvard.edu/harvardreview/OnlineJournal/HRO_1/reviews/MarcusMcWhirter.html Exhibit 2: Using situationist-looking graphics doesn't make you a situationist. Note how the album covers are eagerly sought after by collectors today--precisely a recuperation within the context of consumer culture. 'Not much later, Reid placed his collage style -- commingling mass media texts with cut-outs -- at the disposal of Malcolm Maclaren, also a King Mob veteran. Maclaren's management -- not to mention his manufacture -- of the Sex Pistols, looks suspiciously like a cynical experiment in Situationist social engineering. Some of the graphics which adorn Sex Pistols album covers (eagerly sought after by collectors today) Reid had previously placed in pro-situ publications.' http://www.primitivism.com/situationism.htm ~David On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Philip McGarva philipmcga...@gmail.com wrote: situationism was punk, see g. marcus 'lipstick traces' :^)
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
I can't figure out, David, why you aren't working towards being a college professor. Whenever you start discussing something I feel like a caveman. On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:25 AM, David Powers cybo...@gmail.com wrote: First of all, it's the opposite, punk was (supposedly) influenced by situationism, which really amounts to nothing more than the fact that the manager of the Sex Pistols appropriated situationist techniques--only I personally think that this appropriation was a clear example of recuperation. Teenage Exhibit 1: I fail to see how not knowing and not caring what one is doing has anything to do with liberation. Compare this to Detroit techno, where, although some artists may not initially have known what they were doing, they most certainly did care, as evidenced by Juan Atkins very successful articulation of Detroit techno as embodying a particular aesthetic approach to musical creation. 'Marcus quotes the musician Paul Westerberg as saying that he became enthralled with the Sex Pistols because “It was obvious that they didn’t know what they were doing and they didn’t care.” That statement is the core belief of all the movements that Marcus explores. He artfully shows that this is not a declaration of nihilism but a striving for liberation from what the Situationists called “The Spectacle.”' http://hcl.harvard.edu/harvardreview/OnlineJournal/HRO_1/reviews/MarcusMcWhirter.html Exhibit 2: Using situationist-looking graphics doesn't make you a situationist. Note how the album covers are eagerly sought after by collectors today--precisely a recuperation within the context of consumer culture. 'Not much later, Reid placed his collage style -- commingling mass media texts with cut-outs -- at the disposal of Malcolm Maclaren, also a King Mob veteran. Maclaren's management -- not to mention his manufacture -- of the Sex Pistols, looks suspiciously like a cynical experiment in Situationist social engineering. Some of the graphics which adorn Sex Pistols album covers (eagerly sought after by collectors today) Reid had previously placed in pro-situ publications.' http://www.primitivism.com/situationism.htm ~David On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Philip McGarva philipmcga...@gmail.com wrote: situationism was punk, see g. marcus 'lipstick traces' :^)
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
I sure don't want 313 to become the Skr*llex Discussion Network, but it should be pointed out that he was not a corporate creation, and spent a lot of time sleeping on fans' floors and playing underground events. He became a 'corporate sellout' only when he became so big on his own that the commersh music industry wanted to invest in what he does. I'm not a fan, but from all reports he's an OK guy, and I don't want to participate in villifying people just for being successful.
RE: (313) history always favours the winners
Is it OK to villify him for making really awful music? -Original Message- From: kent williams [mailto:chaircrus...@gmail.com] Sent: 04 March 2013 16:00 To: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) history always favours the winners I sure don't want 313 to become the Skr*llex Discussion Network, but it should be pointed out that he was not a corporate creation, and spent a lot of time sleeping on fans' floors and playing underground events. He became a 'corporate sellout' only when he became so big on his own that the commersh music industry wanted to invest in what he does. I'm not a fan, but from all reports he's an OK guy, and I don't want to participate in villifying people just for being successful. - http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
On 4 Mar 2013, at 14:25, David Powers cybo...@gmail.com wrote: First of all, it's the opposite, punk was (supposedly) influenced by situationism, 'Marcus quotes the musician Paul Westerberg as saying that he became enthralled with the Sex Pistols because “It was obvious that they didn’t know what they were doing and they didn’t care.” Talcy Malc did rip off a hell of a lot of dada and situationism but he didn't try to hide it. He tried some of it on the New York Doll but it didn't work or stick. It's interesting that the myth of them not being able to play still continues, Jones, Cook, and Matlock could all play very well. I think the key part about punk for me was that it was about getting up and having a go. Here's the names and addresses of the studio's, pressing plants and venues --- GO m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:03, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Is it OK to villify him for making really awful music? Why are people on 313 worried about him at all?
RE: (313) history always favours the winners
That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who cares? Not everyone shares that sentiment though. -Original Message- From: Martin Dust [mailto:mar...@dustscience.com] Sent: 04 March 2013 16:15 To: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) history always favours the winners On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:03, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Is it OK to villify him for making really awful music? Why are people on 313 worried about him at all? - http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who cares? Not everyone shares that sentiment though. Aye, you can see why people bite and it can be good fun but I'd be more worried about the lack of good tunes coming out of Detroit than anything Sonny or Boy To Noize said. m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
Back when 313 list was more active, there were a lot more subscribers actually in the Detroit area, who were wired into what was going on, and would post about it. I imagine there's good music happening in Detroit that we aren't hearing about on this list because that is no longer the case. On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Martin Dust mar...@dustscience.com wrote: On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who cares? Not everyone shares that sentiment though. Aye, you can see why people bite and it can be good fun but I'd be more worried about the lack of good tunes coming out of Detroit than anything Sonny or Boy To Noize said. m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
All the house guys in Detroit are consistently putting out quality music (your subjective enjoyment may vary of course): Delano Smith Norm Tally Mike Huckaby Rick Wade Rick Wilhite Moodymann Marcellus Pittman Theo Parrish Scott Grooves Kyle Hall Omar S Plus, had good (proper techno) albums from Robert Hood and Terrence Dixon recently. That seems like a pretty high amount of activity as far as I'm concerned. And this list isn't nearly complete. ~David On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Back when 313 list was more active, there were a lot more subscribers actually in the Detroit area, who were wired into what was going on, and would post about it. I imagine there's good music happening in Detroit that we aren't hearing about on this list because that is no longer the case. On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Martin Dust mar...@dustscience.com wrote: On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who cares? Not everyone shares that sentiment though. Aye, you can see why people bite and it can be good fun but I'd be more worried about the lack of good tunes coming out of Detroit than anything Sonny or Boy To Noize said. m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
Agreed David, Either peeps aren't digging deep enough or they can't listen to anything 130bpm Artists like the guys you mentioned are consistently releasing heat See ya Saturday, Joe On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:20 AM, David Powers cybo...@gmail.com wrote: All the house guys in Detroit are consistently putting out quality music (your subjective enjoyment may vary of course): Delano Smith Norm Tally Mike Huckaby Rick Wade Rick Wilhite Moodymann Marcellus Pittman Theo Parrish Scott Grooves Kyle Hall Omar S Plus, had good (proper techno) albums from Robert Hood and Terrence Dixon recently. That seems like a pretty high amount of activity as far as I'm concerned. And this list isn't nearly complete. ~David On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Back when 313 list was more active, there were a lot more subscribers actually in the Detroit area, who were wired into what was going on, and would post about it. I imagine there's good music happening in Detroit that we aren't hearing about on this list because that is no longer the case. On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Martin Dust mar...@dustscience.com wrote: On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who cares? Not everyone shares that sentiment though. Aye, you can see why people bite and it can be good fun but I'd be more worried about the lack of good tunes coming out of Detroit than anything Sonny or Boy To Noize said. m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
Martin, good point about the myth of them not being able to play. I do think the DIY aspect of punk was very positive, and that DIY spirit continues to inspire many electronic musicians of all sorts. However, it's interesting to note that DIY approach was actually pioneered by jazz musicians already in the 1950's and 60's, by artists like Sun Ra, Charles Mingus, and the members of Chicago's AACM (Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians). It does make me wonder if any of the original Detroit techno artists were aware of their predecessors. ~David On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Martin Dust mar...@dustscience.com wrote: Talcy Malc did rip off a hell of a lot of dada and situationism but he didn't try to hide it. He tried some of it on the New York Doll but it didn't work or stick. It's interesting that the myth of them not being able to play still continues, Jones, Cook, and Matlock could all play very well. I think the key part about punk for me was that it was about getting up and having a go. Here's the names and addresses of the studio's, pressing plants and venues --- GO m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
I always listen out for the guys below and often go out and see them, as odd as it sounds I like watching what Theo does to a crowd but I've moved more and more away for soulful stuff and cookie cutter Detroit pads. I've got friends in Sheffield making souful house and it does nothing for me at all right now. For a while I've just had the vibe that Detroit is making the sound it thinks people want to hear but I'm happy to be wrong. m On 4 Mar 2013, at 19:20, David Powers wrote: All the house guys in Detroit are consistently putting out quality music (your subjective enjoyment may vary of course): Delano Smith Norm Tally Mike Huckaby Rick Wade Rick Wilhite Moodymann Marcellus Pittman Theo Parrish Scott Grooves Kyle Hall Omar S Plus, had good (proper techno) albums from Robert Hood and Terrence Dixon recently. That seems like a pretty high amount of activity as far as I'm concerned. And this list isn't nearly complete. ~David
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
I'd like to hear those sheffield guys you speak of. The problem with soulful house or whatever anyone wants to call it is (just like other genres) that it's a 90/10 rule (and that's probably too generous) so that 90+% makes it easier to draw such conclusions. One could say the same for all those basic channel/mills bites I guess. Not that I listen to much other stuff so I can't really speak on it. Joe On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Martin mar...@dustscience.com wrote: I always listen out for the guys below and often go out and see them, as odd as it sounds I like watching what Theo does to a crowd but I've moved more and more away for soulful stuff and cookie cutter Detroit pads. I've got friends in Sheffield making souful house and it does nothing for me at all right now. For a while I've just had the vibe that Detroit is making the sound it thinks people want to hear but I'm happy to be wrong. m On 4 Mar 2013, at 19:20, David Powers wrote: All the house guys in Detroit are consistently putting out quality music (your subjective enjoyment may vary of course): Delano Smith Norm Tally Mike Huckaby Rick Wade Rick Wilhite Moodymann Marcellus Pittman Theo Parrish Scott Grooves Kyle Hall Omar S Plus, had good (proper techno) albums from Robert Hood and Terrence Dixon recently. That seems like a pretty high amount of activity as far as I'm concerned. And this list isn't nearly complete. ~David
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
On 4 Mar 2013, at 19:31, David Powers wrote: Martin, good point about the myth of them not being able to play. I've got early bootlegs of the Pistols, Clash and Stranglers, they could all play pretty good. I do think the DIY aspect of punk was very positive, and that DIY spirit continues to inspire many electronic musicians of all sorts. For sure, it's really important. I still have the TV Personalities 7 and Scritti Politti 7 that had all the pressing etc details. I remember buying Cabs 7s and seeing them in the same que for UK Subs/Joy Division and waiting for the bus, sounds silly but it made it more real back then. By the same note I remember seeing the Cabs, Throbbing Gristle and The Slits and not understand a thing that was going on, The Slits couldn't play for sure but there was something wonderful in the chaos :) However, it's interesting to note that DIY approach was actually pioneered by jazz musicians already in the 1950's and 60's, by artists like Sun Ra, Charles Mingus, and the members of Chicago's AACM (Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians). It does make me wonder if any of the original Detroit techno artists were aware of their predecessors. Yeah, there's a lot to learn from history, I didn't know it was Bob Dylan that changed the album format to what we know it as so yeah if I'm just learning that... m
RE: (313) history always favours the winners
Bonus round - thanks! -Original Message- From: kent williams [mailto:chaircrus...@gmail.com] Sent: 04 March 2013 16:46 To: Daniel Bean Subject: Re: (313) history always favours the winners Yes and you can make fun of his haircut and glasses too. On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Is it OK to villify him for making really awful music? -Original Message- From: kent williams [mailto:chaircrus...@gmail.com] Sent: 04 March 2013 16:00 To: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) history always favours the winners I sure don't want 313 to become the Skr*llex Discussion Network, but it should be pointed out that he was not a corporate creation, and spent a lot of time sleeping on fans' floors and playing underground events. He became a 'corporate sellout' only when he became so big on his own that the commersh music industry wanted to invest in what he does. I'm not a fan, but from all reports he's an OK guy, and I don't want to participate in villifying people just for being successful. - http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. - - http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
i was joking.
RE: (313) history always favours the winners
Tis true. I haven't lived in the area in 10 years, and 313 has always been a lifeline to what's going on around Tha D with regards to Techno and Detroit House artists. I've noticed the number of releases being discussed here tapering off over the last few years. I've often figured that it's more to do with a lot of artists getting older and maybe getting into the 9-5 world where they don't have as much time to devote to music like they did in their younger years. -Original Message- From: kent williams [mailto:chaircrus...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 9:26 AM To: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) history always favours the winners Back when 313 list was more active, there were a lot more subscribers actually in the Detroit area, who were wired into what was going on, and would post about it. I imagine there's good music happening in Detroit that we aren't hearing about on this list because that is no longer the case. On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Martin Dust mar...@dustscience.com wrote: On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who cares? Not everyone shares that sentiment though. Aye, you can see why people bite and it can be good fun but I'd be more worried about the lack of good tunes coming out of Detroit than anything Sonny or Boy To Noize said. m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
On 3/4/2013 2:58 PM, Martin wrote:
Yeah, there's a lot to learn from history, I didn't know it was Bob Dylan that
changed the album format to what we know it as so yeah if I'm just learning
that...
m
???
In what way did he change the album format?
--
{}0+|
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
Marcellus Pittman's album Pieces is pretty good. At times I feel like
the wool is being pulled over my eyes, but I don't mind it too much.
I've been meaning to say for a while now that Terrence Dixon's latest
release is really fabulous! I've been playing this one quite a bit!!
Juan Atkin's release on Scion Audio Visual is the best I've heard from
him in a while. The remixes are good, but the originals remind me of
why I get excited to see something new from him.
On 3/4/2013 2:20 PM, David Powers wrote:
All the house guys in Detroit are consistently putting out quality
music (your subjective enjoyment may vary of course):
Delano Smith
Norm Tally
Mike Huckaby
Rick Wade
Rick Wilhite
Moodymann
Marcellus Pittman
Theo Parrish
Scott Grooves
Kyle Hall
Omar S
Plus, had good (proper techno) albums from Robert Hood and Terrence
Dixon recently. That seems like a pretty high amount of activity as
far as I'm concerned. And this list isn't nearly complete.
~David
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote:
Back when 313 list was more active, there were a lot more subscribers
actually in the Detroit area, who were wired into what was going on,
and would post about it. I imagine there's good music happening in
Detroit that we aren't hearing about on this list because that is no
longer the case.
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Martin Dust mar...@dustscience.com wrote:
On 4 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote:
That was my earlier point way back on this thread. To recap: EDM? Who cares?
Not everyone shares that sentiment though.
Aye, you can see why people bite and it can be good fun but I'd be more worried
about the lack of good tunes coming out of Detroit than anything Sonny or Boy
To Noize said.
m
--
{}0+|
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
That was hardly the point, Kent.
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
it was about getting up and having a go That's it completely and in a nutshell. I grew up in the same neighborhood as Bad Brains and those guys (with a background in hard bop jazz and reggae) could -play-. But they were playing at a time when many in the same circuit (the Washington DC underground of 1977 onward) really couldn't -- including some, like Half Japanese, who made a fetish of that. Some got better, some didn't. Many of us who DJ or make tracks have drawn on the DIY punk attitude -- itself an outgrowth of, among other things, the garage band ethos in the 1960s in the US, of course commemorated by Garageland by the Clash, a band who could really really play. It's easy to overlook now the profound influence of the Ramones on the Pistols and everyone else. And what were they doing? Basically 1960s garage. but I digress :) fh - On 4 Mar 2013, at 14:25, David Powers cybo...@gmail.com wrote: First of all, it's the opposite, punk was (supposedly) influenced by situationism, 'Marcus quotes the musician Paul Westerberg as saying that he became enthralled with the Sex Pistols because It was obvious that they didnt know what they were doing and they didnt care. Talcy Malc did rip off a hell of a lot of dada and situationism but he didn't try to hide it. He tried some of it on the New York Doll but it didn't work or stick. It's interesting that the myth of them not being able to play still continues, Jones, Cook, and Matlock could all play very well. I think the key part about punk for me was that it was about getting up and having a go. Here's the names and addresses of the studio's, pressing plants and venues --- GO m
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
African Americans comprise somewhere around 17 percent the people in
the United States, or about 40 million souls. Considered on their
own, this is less than the population of Spain and about twice the
population of the Benelux countries.
Which means, if an African American artist wants popular success, they
have to succeed with white audiences. This includes the most gritty,
real, Afrocentric Hip Hop -- which is actually quite popular amongst
white college kids.
Jazz, Blues, Rock... all the indigenous musical art forms of the
United States have their roots in African-American culture, but an
international success because non-African American people listen to
it. I don't think most African American artists mind this -- it's how
they make a career out of music. I think that they want to remain
connected to the culture into which they were born, but do they really
want to be only connected to their 'own' culture?
The lesson I take away from Detroit Techno is that the African
American originators remained true to their roots, but were perfectly
willing to incorporate influences from European music. I think that
behind the desire for black Techno artists to connect (or re-connect)
with black audiences also has to do with the culture around techno's
creators and fans. These were guys -- like a lot of the Hip Hop
originators -- were middle class, and well educated. They are the
upwardly mobile minority of the minority.
On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:30 PM, darnistle darnis...@cafe-ebola.com wrote:
On 2/19/2013 3:17 PM, maxphi...@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.spin.com/articles/skrillex-diplo-boys-noize-a-trak-detroit-techno-potato-kevin-saunderson-dog-blood
m50
This is one of my many pet-peeves, but why does everyone who courts
commercial success trot out punk as a framework for what they're doing?
Skrillex/BoyzNoize seem to produce party-music-du-jour and seems about as
punk as KC and the Sunshine band (not to belittle KC).
It is interesting to contemplate Saunderson's comments that it used to be
that techno was originally a black thing, but now has morphed into a
commodity of white culture. I understand that it was bound to happen as the
music took hold outside of the black community and began to be internalized
and expressed in a manner more akin to local dispositions. (sorta like the
black Madonna or Chinese Buddha). I try to use this line of thinking to
buffer the uncomfortable thought of how Euro DEMF has become over the years,
but I won't dredge up that topic again...
After watching the video, my lasting impression is that the association of
Skrillex/BoyzNoize with Detroit is precarious and superficial at best. I'll
give them credit for at least giving Saunderson the stage at the center of
the video, but they're obviously trying to suck on the Detroit teat to
solidify their street cred. Does Saunderson's allusion to the
wonderbreadification of techno prove to the viewer that these guys are the
realdealness after all?
I can't help but feel like this promotional video was a Situationist
recuperation in action.
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Re: (313) history always favours the winners
It could also be argued that the desire for black techno artists to [re-]connect with the black community could also be rooted in a desire to see the wellspring from which they drew inspiration continue to serve as a fomenter for further musical creativity. If you've got quality compost, it makes sense to want utilize it in order to ensure that your garden continues to thrive. After expanding outside of the black community, it is very obvious (to me at least) that eventually techno would reach a point where it had morphed and changed to the point where it had less and less obvious connection with its origins. That process happens with most things that expand to wider cultures and crosses international lines. But I don't want to get sidetracked from the Skrillex/BoyzNoize video that prompted my original comments and its lame attempt to substantiate their underground credentials via talk of punk and Detroit techno. It is just more corporate spin, trying to convince the viewer that Skrillex/BoyzNoize isn't just some corporate-sponsored appropriation of underground music, but instead come from a respectable musical lineage. Now, if the video talked about how they heard a lot of polka music growing up (for example) and wanted to pair that with techno/rave/dubstep in order to express their musical heritage and interests, I might have found the whole thing more engaging and less gratuitous and the references to Detroit would have made more sense. Skrillex/BoyzNoize aside, I do hope Saunderson was paid well for his cameo appearance. On 3/3/2013 2:18 PM, kent williams wrote: African Americans comprise somewhere around 17 percent the people in the United States, or about 40 million souls. Considered on their own, this is less than the population of Spain and about twice the population of the Benelux countries. Which means, if an African American artist wants popular success, they have to succeed with white audiences. This includes the most gritty, real, Afrocentric Hip Hop -- which is actually quite popular amongst white college kids. Jazz, Blues, Rock... all the indigenous musical art forms of the United States have their roots in African-American culture, but an international success because non-African American people listen to it. I don't think most African American artists mind this -- it's how they make a career out of music. I think that they want to remain connected to the culture into which they were born, but do they really want to be only connected to their 'own' culture? The lesson I take away from Detroit Techno is that the African American originators remained true to their roots, but were perfectly willing to incorporate influences from European music. I think that behind the desire for black Techno artists to connect (or re-connect) with black audiences also has to do with the culture around techno's creators and fans. These were guys -- like a lot of the Hip Hop originators -- were middle class, and well educated. They are the upwardly mobile minority of the minority.
(313) history always favours the winners
situationism was punk, see g. marcus 'lipstick traces' :^)
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
On 2/19/2013 3:17 PM, maxphi...@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.spin.com/articles/skrillex-diplo-boys-noize-a-trak-detroit-techno-potato-kevin-saunderson-dog-blood
m50
This is one of my many pet-peeves, but why does everyone who courts
commercial success trot out punk as a framework for what they're
doing? Skrillex/BoyzNoize seem to produce party-music-du-jour and seems
about as punk as KC and the Sunshine band (not to belittle KC).
It is interesting to contemplate Saunderson's comments that it used to
be that techno was originally a black thing, but now has morphed into a
commodity of white culture. I understand that it was bound to happen as
the music took hold outside of the black community and began to be
internalized and expressed in a manner more akin to local dispositions.
(sorta like the black Madonna or Chinese Buddha). I try to use this
line of thinking to buffer the uncomfortable thought of how Euro DEMF
has become over the years, but I won't dredge up that topic again...
After watching the video, my lasting impression is that the association
of Skrillex/BoyzNoize with Detroit is precarious and superficial at
best. I'll give them credit for at least giving Saunderson the stage at
the center of the video, but they're obviously trying to suck on the
Detroit teat to solidify their street cred. Does Saunderson's allusion
to the wonderbreadification of techno prove to the viewer that these
guys are the realdealness after all?
I can't help but feel like this promotional video was a Situationist
recuperation in action.
--
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Re: (313) history always favours the winners
LOL: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/american-rave-culture-to-be-worst-thing-that-has-ever-happened-2013022260677 On 19 Feb 2013, at 20:17, maxphi...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.spin.com/articles/skrillex-diplo-boys-noize-a-trak-detroit-techno-potato-kevin-saunderson-dog-blood m50
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
My biggest problem with this is the guy's hairstyle.
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
girlsthatlooklikeskrillex.tumblr.com (warning, tumblr has lots of naked people) On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Philip McGarva philipmcga...@gmail.com wrote: My biggest problem with this is the guy's hairstyle. -- matt kane's brain twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com
(313) history always favours the winners
http://www.spin.com/articles/skrillex-diplo-boys-noize-a-trak-detroit-techno-potato-kevin-saunderson-dog-blood m50
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
That is the most wonderful URL slug. On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM, maxphi...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.spin.com/articles/skrillex-diplo-boys-noize-a-trak-detroit-techno-potato-kevin-saunderson-dog-blood m50 -- matt kane's brain twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com
RE: (313) history always favours the winners
That's pretty much the most interesting thing about it. Whenever I come across stuff like this or things related to these sorts of artists I don't see it as having any bearing on anything I care about. It's utterly irrelevant. I don't really understand why people get so hot under the collar about EDM and what these people are saying. -Original Message- From: mkb.dirty...@gmail.com [mailto:mkb.dirty...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matt Kane's Brain Sent: 19 February 2013 20:24 To: maxphi...@gmail.com Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) history always favours the winners That is the most wonderful URL slug. On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM, maxphi...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.spin.com/articles/skrillex-diplo-boys-noize-a-trak-detroit-techno-potato-kevin-saunderson-dog-blood m50 -- matt kane's brain twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com - http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
It's very interesting to note the clarity of Saunderson in his way of speaking compared with the other guy, called Skrillez or whatever it is thanks for sharing it 2013/2/19 Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk: That's pretty much the most interesting thing about it. Whenever I come across stuff like this or things related to these sorts of artists I don't see it as having any bearing on anything I care about. It's utterly irrelevant. I don't really understand why people get so hot under the collar about EDM and what these people are saying. -Original Message- From: mkb.dirty...@gmail.com [mailto:mkb.dirty...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Matt Kane's Brain Sent: 19 February 2013 20:24 To: maxphi...@gmail.com Cc: list 313 Subject: Re: (313) history always favours the winners That is the most wonderful URL slug. On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:17 PM, maxphi...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.spin.com/articles/skrillex-diplo-boys-noize-a-trak-detroit-techno-potato-kevin-saunderson-dog-blood m50 -- matt kane's brain twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com - http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. -
Re: (313) history always favours the winners
We oldies get upset when know-nothing bell ends start talking nonsense to impressionable young people. That way lies Fox News. On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Bean daniel.b...@bbc.co.uk wrote: That's pretty much the most interesting thing about it. Whenever I come across stuff like this or things related to these sorts of artists I don't see it as having any bearing on anything I care about. It's utterly irrelevant. I don't really understand why people get so hot under the collar about EDM and what these people are saying.
