Re: (313) radio boy one final time
but you know going to the event that its a politically infused event. NAD...he gave the CD away for free on his website. Herbert walks the walk. On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, /0 wrote: perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) -Joe - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time -- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
but there's no talking. the music is the message (and that particular message is political sometimes) On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, /0 wrote: its just my opinion. I make music too, and I dont think I would feel right taking my time that people had paid for to make them music to instead talk about politics. its just a difference in opinion :) - Original Message - From: Nicole Slavin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time This is not a useless thread, it addresses issues that are relevant to all of us within a musical context. Herbert is asking you to think about these things, do you really object to that sort of request? Why? If you understand the issues and respond to them already, then great. But others perhaps don't or enjoy engaging with them. Herbert's views are political. These inform all of his work, not just Radioboy. His Big Band project is another that is quite overt about this. On stage, his musicians tear up Conservative newspapers and sample the effects, to name but one thing he does. It's an amazingly entertaining and original way to convey his protest. Furthermore, some of his record sleeves have recommended reading of works that support his beliefs. It is this refusal to unquestioningly accept the status quo that is also evident in his innovative approach to music production, which has made him one of the most exciting artists around. - Original Message - From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: 11 January 2004 20:11 Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) -Joe - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time -- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
It's tough. How do we try and oppose what we all know doesn't make sense unless we take it out of the 'unspoken' and start to make it part of the fabric of our lives? I suppose that includes our music too. (Not all of it though, naturally.) It's hard to get political and remain musically relevant or entertaining, but history is littered with great examples, from 'The Message' to 'Shipbuilding' to 'Message To The Majors', the list is huge. The trick seems to be to avoid that 'ick' factor, and make the message essential to the musical point. Whether Herbert does that or not is debatable. Also, are his criticisms all that devastating? Perhaps to the 13-year-old who hasn't discovered Chomsky yet. Maybe that's partly what some people (as adults) find annoying? Although saying that, it takes courage to stand up and put your views on the table, and I applaud Herbert for doing so. I don't think it can be ignored any longer. Peace, Andrew Jason Brunton wrote: I really can't be bothered with most of Herbert's musical output- it's been a long time since I bought any of his records but I did see him play at Sonar a year or two ago and was mildly amused by his live show. I've definitelty got a bit of respect for his decision to bring real world issues into the musical arena though and if you had paid to see him you would almost certainly know that he would be pushing his opinions at you- he's been pretty vocal (and articulate) about them for quite some time now (possibly room for critisism based on preaching to the converted I suppose but that would be churlish). cheers Jason On 11 Jan 2004, at 22:05, /0 wrote: its just my opinion. I make music too, and I dont think I would feel right taking my time that people had paid for to make them music to instead talk about politics. its just a difference in opinion :)
RE: (313) radio boy one final time
Matthew Herbert is trying to do more than just entertain you, Joe - he's no organ grinder - he takes his music very very seriously and is attempting to bind his politics with his music - so it is redundant of you to complain that you're paying him to play you music - the politics is inseparable from the music. -Original Message- From: /0 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) -Joe - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time -- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. #
RE: (313) radio boy one final time
313 quote of this year so far : The Mall has replaced the Church as the place people get their shared values. Speaking of which, did anyone compile a 313 quote list for last year? -Pete -Original Message- From: Kent williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:27 AM To: 313 list Subject: (313) radio boy one final time Not to turn this into an argument, Dennis but I disagree with you that Herbert buying a few consumer items and then destroying them is nullified as a social comment by the fact that he spent money on them. Any he spent on the Radioboy tour was a rounding error economically for the corporations he targeted. Here's why I disagree: The wanton destruction of consumer items carries with it a sense of desecration. A Big Mac or a Britney Spears CD is only incidentally a utilitarian object. It is also a symbol, a talisman, a token of desire. What you're really buying is the lifestyle, aspirations, and dreams they have been crafted to represent. Buying and consuming them is a sacrament of global capitalism. Every day we make choices about what we consume, and most people literally buy into the dominant culture without giving it a second thought. The Mall has replaced the Church as the place people get their shared values. So ripping a pair of Gap Boxers equivalent to burning a flag. Will one guy change the world by doing it? Maybe not. Maybe he'll make a few people think about where their food and clothes and music comes from.
(313) radio boy one final time
Not to turn this into an argument, Dennis but I disagree with you that Herbert buying a few consumer items and then destroying them is nullified as a social comment by the fact that he spent money on them. Any he spent on the Radioboy tour was a rounding error economically for the corporations he targeted. Here's why I disagree: The wanton destruction of consumer items carries with it a sense of desecration. A Big Mac or a Britney Spears CD is only incidentally a utilitarian object. It is also a symbol, a talisman, a token of desire. What you're really buying is the lifestyle, aspirations, and dreams they have been crafted to represent. Buying and consuming them is a sacrament of global capitalism. Every day we make choices about what we consume, and most people literally buy into the dominant culture without giving it a second thought. The Mall has replaced the Church as the place people get their shared values. So ripping a pair of Gap Boxers equivalent to burning a flag. Will one guy change the world by doing it? Maybe not. Maybe he'll make a few people think about where their food and clothes and music comes from.
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
So ripping a pair of Gap Boxers equivalent to burning a flag. Will one guy change the world by doing it? Maybe not. Maybe he'll make a few people think about where their food and clothes and music comes from. I like the notion of hands ripping becoming a sort of memento mori of commodification - a reminder of the hands/people who were a part of the production of (and then forgotten in) the thing which has been commodified. I agree with Kent here in that Herbert is doing something different than mere consumption; he's breaking the cycle and the icon in the process. Dennis' remark, though, carries in it the pertinent seeds of the real issue for those who dislike the notion of reducing human relationships to transactions : we all participate in the system which perpetuates that which we find abhorrent. (back to lurking) jeff
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
Kent williams wrote: So ripping a pair of Gap Boxers equivalent to burning a flag. Will one guy change the world by doing it? Maybe not. Maybe he'll make a few people think about where their food and clothes and music comes from. Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
-- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) -Joe - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time -- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
This is not a useless thread, it addresses issues that are relevant to all of us within a musical context. Herbert is asking you to think about these things, do you really object to that sort of request? Why? If you understand the issues and respond to them already, then great. But others perhaps don't or enjoy engaging with them. Herbert's views are political. These inform all of his work, not just Radioboy. His Big Band project is another that is quite overt about this. On stage, his musicians tear up Conservative newspapers and sample the effects, to name but one thing he does. It's an amazingly entertaining and original way to convey his protest. Furthermore, some of his record sleeves have recommended reading of works that support his beliefs. It is this refusal to unquestioningly accept the status quo that is also evident in his innovative approach to music production, which has made him one of the most exciting artists around. - Original Message - From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: 11 January 2004 20:11 Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) -Joe - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time -- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
its just my opinion. I make music too, and I dont think I would feel right taking my time that people had paid for to make them music to instead talk about politics. its just a difference in opinion :) - Original Message - From: Nicole Slavin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time This is not a useless thread, it addresses issues that are relevant to all of us within a musical context. Herbert is asking you to think about these things, do you really object to that sort of request? Why? If you understand the issues and respond to them already, then great. But others perhaps don't or enjoy engaging with them. Herbert's views are political. These inform all of his work, not just Radioboy. His Big Band project is another that is quite overt about this. On stage, his musicians tear up Conservative newspapers and sample the effects, to name but one thing he does. It's an amazingly entertaining and original way to convey his protest. Furthermore, some of his record sleeves have recommended reading of works that support his beliefs. It is this refusal to unquestioningly accept the status quo that is also evident in his innovative approach to music production, which has made him one of the most exciting artists around. - Original Message - From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: 11 January 2004 20:11 Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) -Joe - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time -- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
I really can't be bothered with most of Herbert's musical output- it's been a long time since I bought any of his records but I did see him play at Sonar a year or two ago and was mildly amused by his live show. I've definitelty got a bit of respect for his decision to bring real world issues into the musical arena though and if you had paid to see him you would almost certainly know that he would be pushing his opinions at you- he's been pretty vocal (and articulate) about them for quite some time now (possibly room for critisism based on preaching to the converted I suppose but that would be churlish). cheers Jason On 11 Jan 2004, at 22:05, /0 wrote: its just my opinion. I make music too, and I dont think I would feel right taking my time that people had paid for to make them music to instead talk about politics. its just a difference in opinion :)
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
its just my opinion. That's fine. It's a discussion, you're supposed to give your views. I don't think you need to explain that, it goes without saying :) I make music too, and I dont think I would feel right taking my time that people had paid for to make them music to instead talk about politics. its just a difference in opinion :) I buy and listen to lots of music and appreciate hearing my views and those of many others (the type of view that is not often conveyed by our other forms of media) so creatively stated. Each to their own but i don't disparage anyone who wants to express their views. After all, it certaintly hasn't stopped him from making great music. And as for someone pushing their beliefs on others, people are doing that every time you read a paper, switch on the telly, go to the supermarket, etc. Nway, it's a good discussion :) - Original Message - From: Nicole Slavin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time This is not a useless thread, it addresses issues that are relevant to all of us within a musical context. Herbert is asking you to think about these things, do you really object to that sort of request? Why? If you understand the issues and respond to them already, then great. But others perhaps don't or enjoy engaging with them. Herbert's views are political. These inform all of his work, not just Radioboy. His Big Band project is another that is quite overt about this. On stage, his musicians tear up Conservative newspapers and sample the effects, to name but one thing he does. It's an amazingly entertaining and original way to convey his protest. Furthermore, some of his record sleeves have recommended reading of works that support his beliefs. It is this refusal to unquestioningly accept the status quo that is also evident in his innovative approach to music production, which has made him one of the most exciting artists around. - Original Message - From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: 11 January 2004 20:11 Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) -Joe - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:15 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time -- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will one guy boycotting the Gap change the world? Maybe not. The argument can swing the other way as well. I admire your idealism. Perhaps I´m just too much of a cynic. But for me, keeping my money out of coporate coffers (and encouraging others to do so as well) is a more powerful catalyst for change. well lets just say for the sake of argument that each show he does as radioboy (which requires him to spend money on those products which he is against) makes 5 people decide to cease spending their money there for the rest of their lives. and they go through their life telling people why theyre not into spending money there. its a bit of a trickle down effect, but even at 5 converts per show, the effect would be much greater than just him giving up spending money at those corporations. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
-- Original Message -- From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] perhaps, but then thats where I come in. Im paying to listen to your music, not to give you a venue to push your beliefs on me in hope of winning me over. I know, this thread is useless, but it would be great conversation were we all playing records and drinking some beer :) his radioboy music is inseparable from the politics of it. its like UR, if youre not into their politics, youre missing a large point of the music. it would be like listening to white power punk because you like the beat but are ignorant of the politics. some of my favorite musicians mesh their music with the political views: fela kuti, mad mike, james brown, moodymann, etc. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
-- Original Message -- From: /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] its just my opinion. I make music too, and I dont think I would feel right taking my time that people had paid for to make them music to instead talk about politics. its just a difference in opinion :) IMO a person's politics are part of themselves and as such should be on some level a part of their music. i expect the music i listen to to be influenced by art, literature, film, political values, personal history, etc. its all essential. tom andythepooh.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
Nicole Slavin wrote: On stage, his musicians tear up Conservative newspapers and sample the effects, to name but one thing he does. It's an amazingly entertaining and original way to convey his protest. Again, I don´t for a minute think that artists shouldn´t infuse their work with political activism. I do it all the time. What I object to is a form of political protest that involves BUYING the things being protested against. If, as Tom suggested, for every Big Mac or Starbucks latte that Herbert purchases for use in his shows, 5 people decide never to spend money at those companies again, then he´s done something wonderful and powerful. But there´s simply no way to know. And if that ISN´T the result, then what you end up with is Herbert buying Big Macs and Starbucks lattes, which is all McDonalds and Starbucks ever wanted him to do in the first place. No one at any level of the McDonalds or Starbucks corporate hierarchy could care less what you do with their products AFTER you´ve paid for them. Companies don´t exist to make products. They exist to make profits. And unless Herbert KNOWS that he´s decreasing sales, then he´s doing more harm than good. One more time: I´m NOT blasting him for taking a stand. I think his writings on the subject of corporate bloat are brilliant, his music even more so. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
So if he stole 'em you'd be down with it?? - Original Message - From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Nicole Slavin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 6:24 PM Subject: Re: (313) radio boy one final time Nicole Slavin wrote: On stage, his musicians tear up Conservative newspapers and sample the effects, to name but one thing he does. It's an amazingly entertaining and original way to convey his protest. Again, I don´t for a minute think that artists shouldn´t infuse their work with political activism. I do it all the time. What I object to is a form of political protest that involves BUYING the things being protested against. If, as Tom suggested, for every Big Mac or Starbucks latte that Herbert purchases for use in his shows, 5 people decide never to spend money at those companies again, then he´s done something wonderful and powerful. But there´s simply no way to know. And if that ISN´T the result, then what you end up with is Herbert buying Big Macs and Starbucks lattes, which is all McDonalds and Starbucks ever wanted him to do in the first place. No one at any level of the McDonalds or Starbucks corporate hierarchy could care less what you do with their products AFTER you´ve paid for them. Companies don´t exist to make products. They exist to make profits. And unless Herbert KNOWS that he´s decreasing sales, then he´s doing more harm than good. One more time: I´m NOT blasting him for taking a stand. I think his writings on the subject of corporate bloat are brilliant, his music even more so. -- Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
Mark S. Krüx wrote: So if he stole 'em you'd be down with it?? Absolutely ;) Dennis DeSantis www.dennisdesantis.com
Re: (313) radio boy one final time
-- Original Message -- From: Dennis DeSantis [EMAIL PROTECTED] What I object to is a form of political protest that involves BUYING the things being protested against. i would have to say that there's a large philosophical difference between mindless consumption of lowest common denominator goods and the purchase of said goods for use in radioboy style demonstration. in fact, i find something almost fantastic about abusing the purchase by turning it around on the corporations. i think his protest is more against the complacent mindset of the people than the specific products themselves. changing the mindset of people will harm all corporations, not just the ones he targets. If, as Tom suggested, for every Big Mac or Starbucks latte that Herbert purchases for use in his shows, 5 people decide never to spend money at those companies again, then he´s done something wonderful and powerful. But there´s simply no way to know. there's no way to ever be sure if any form of protest is working. i dont think that means you should quit or change strategy unless you can see for sure that it ISNT working. im sure herbert gets his share of email telling him about positive effects his politically motivated music has on people. we cant see those, but im sure they exist. No one at any level of the McDonalds or Starbucks corporate hierarchy could care less what you do with their products AFTER you´ve paid for them. Companies don´t exist to make products. They exist to make profits. And unless Herbert KNOWS that he´s decreasing sales, then he´s doing more harm than good. i absolutely disagree with that part of your argument. plenty of designer brands have expressed irritation with hiphop stars for name dropping them, in effect dropping their prestige factor but also undoubtedl increasing sales. right now herbert is a small time kind of performer, but if his crowds increase, those corporations will care, im sure of it. One more time: I´m NOT blasting him for taking a stand. I think his writings on the subject of corporate bloat are brilliant, his music even more so. you can look at this through the pessimist's eyes: one person buying or not buying these products isnt going to make a difference. this is why what he does almost MUST be more efficient than simply not spending money on the products. with the amount of commerce generated by the radio boy performances ($100 tops per show? maybe even less, id bet.) its not going to make a difference, especially when you consider the possible positive effects. tom tom andythepooh.com
