Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4
Okay several points here: in response to you: That's a tired old stereotype, why continue to generalize Swedish techno? It's not too much to ask for people to be a little more specific with names (more current names and labels) instead of "Swedish techno sucks, it's too monotonous and same sounding" When it comes to the criticism of monotonous, loop based techno, "bangers" if you will. I fail to understand this type of logic especially form people who are not from the Jeff Mills or Marco Carolla school of thought when it comes to mixing records. I personally enjoy a good hard hitting set of monotonous techno, in fact I find it rather refreshing, it get's my adrenaline flowing, especially when it sounds all abstract and distorted on a loud system. on 5/12/03 10:01 AM, Fabrizio Nahum at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I tend to lump Carolla and Zenit with that >> sound too even though its a bit different and not even swedish.. > > i reccommend antezenit 014 (zenit's limited edition sister label) - > detroit-ish chords driven techno, reminded me of Aril Brikha.. This is a great example of being more descriptive, "detroit-ish chords driven techno, reminded me of Aril Brikha." not just "Detroit techno." Detroit techno comes many variety's
Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4
I tend to lump Carolla and Zenit with that > sound too even though its a bit different and not even swedish.. i reccommend antezenit 014 (zenit's limited edition sister label) - detroit-ish chords driven techno, reminded me of Aril Brikha.. btw, i will be seeing carola play on thursday so if anyone wants to know how that was..drop me a line. baci fab - Original Message - From: "Peter Leidy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "spw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 4:50 PM Subject: Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4 > > If you think about it what percentage of techno from Sweden really fit's > > under > > definition #2? > > As for the sound becoming more formulaic maybe you could be more specific > > listing artist and labels other than Adam Bayer, Drumcode. > > My second and final post on the subject as your reply is boderline > flame-bait - if you read my post more carefully, I never implied that > def#2 held a sizeable portion of swedish techno as a whole - merely that > because enough similar records came out, that people eventually referred > to that particular style as "swedish techno." > > nor did i say that adam beyer strictly produces this style of techno (as > indirectly implied by your post)- but a portion of his releases do fall > into this "category" and were instrumental in the formation of the > sub-genre. > > you asked for some other names and labels - i may not be the best person > to ask since i never really got into the style except for some of the > earlier material - some of the Code Red records. Earlier Hybrid records > are excellent, but after the first 30 or so releases, Hybrid and Lekebush > sort of got into that style. Primate, Drumcode, Thomas Krome, Joel Mull > are some of the big names. I tend to lump Carolla and Zenit with that > sound too even though its a bit different and not even swedish.. > > again, let me emphasize that i never said this style is bad- I like a lot > of the stuff from the forementioned producers- but it definitely has > become pretty same-ey over the years, so i never felt inclined to buy > any more then the 10 or so records that I had from a few years back.. > > hope that clarifies what i was getting at. and don't ask me why it gets > "hated on" - i'm not a hater, i'm just kinda bored of the stuff- a > matter of personal taste.. > > p >
Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4
> If you think about it what percentage of techno from Sweden really fit's > under > definition #2? > As for the sound becoming more formulaic maybe you could be more specific > listing artist and labels other than Adam Bayer, Drumcode. My second and final post on the subject as your reply is boderline flame-bait - if you read my post more carefully, I never implied that def#2 held a sizeable portion of swedish techno as a whole - merely that because enough similar records came out, that people eventually referred to that particular style as "swedish techno." nor did i say that adam beyer strictly produces this style of techno (as indirectly implied by your post)- but a portion of his releases do fall into this "category" and were instrumental in the formation of the sub-genre. you asked for some other names and labels - i may not be the best person to ask since i never really got into the style except for some of the earlier material - some of the Code Red records. Earlier Hybrid records are excellent, but after the first 30 or so releases, Hybrid and Lekebush sort of got into that style. Primate, Drumcode, Thomas Krome, Joel Mull are some of the big names. I tend to lump Carolla and Zenit with that sound too even though its a bit different and not even swedish.. again, let me emphasize that i never said this style is bad- I like a lot of the stuff from the forementioned producers- but it definitely has become pretty same-ey over the years, so i never felt inclined to buy any more then the 10 or so records that I had from a few years back.. hope that clarifies what i was getting at. and don't ask me why it gets "hated on" - i'm not a hater, i'm just kinda bored of the stuff- a matter of personal taste.. p
Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4
I thought there was an agreement on this list that all such music would be referred to as "banging loopers" ;-) Seems to conjure up images of bangers and mash for me for some reason... hmmm... Peter Leidy said: > I find the second definition more commonly used than the first, but the > context in which it is used usually clarifies the intended definition > quite easily. > > I'm guessing this is pretty obvious to most, but in the world of email > groups- continuity of semantics helps keep what little order we have > from becoming total chaos..
Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4
"David Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" raises a valid observation, why so much hatred directed towards Swedish techno? If you think about it what percentage of techno from Sweden really fit's under definition #2? As for the sound becoming more formulaic maybe you could be more specific listing artist and labels other than Adam Bayer, Drumcode. And If I'm not mistaken, DT1000 had a recent interview with Adam Bayer on his web site where he talks about some of the various projects he involved with. on 5/10/03 8:33 AM, Peter Leidy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> I have heard a lot of Swedish techno/tech-house that is NOT just 2-beat loops >> but some quite musical material. I'm surprised the Swedes get hated on so >> much. >> > > just a quick note on swedich techno because this topic seems to get folks > talking in circles without really getting anywhere: > > I've noticed "Swedish Techno" has two different meanings in general > conversation: > > 1. Techno from Sweden - I'm sure nobody will argue that some of this is > quite varied, musical, interesting, etc, etc.. > > 2. A Techno Style characterized by the minimal clubby compositions and > compressed drum sounds for maximum loudness:) This stuff got a lot > of exposure from Swedish Labels/Producers in the late 90's ala Adam Beyer/ > Drum Code, etc.. This style is not too varied, and over the last few years > has become even more formulaic that it was in the beginning - hence the > disinterest from some of the 313 community. When referring to "Swedish > Techno" in this sense- it may or may not actually be coming from Sweden, > and by no means represents all of the techno coming out of Sweden- > > I find the second definition more commonly used than the first, but the > context in which it is used usually clarifies the intended definition > quite easily. > > I'm guessing this is pretty obvious to most, but in the world of email > groups- continuity of semantics helps keep what little order we have from > becoming total chaos.. > > p
Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4
> > > I have heard a lot of Swedish techno/tech-house that is NOT just 2-beat loops but some quite musical material. I'm surprised the Swedes get hated on so much. > > > > just a quick note on swedich techno because this topic seems to get folks > talking in circles without really getting anywhere: > > I've noticed "Swedish Techno" has two different meanings in general > conversation: > > 1. Techno from Sweden - I'm sure nobody will argue that some of this is > quite varied, musical, interesting, etc, etc.. > > 2. A Techno Style characterized by the minimal clubby compositions and > compressed drum sounds for maximum loudness:) This stuff got a lot > of exposure from Swedish Labels/Producers in the late 90's ala Adam Beyer/ > Drum Code, etc.. This style is not too varied, and over the last few years > has become even more formulaic that it was in the beginning - hence the > disinterest from some of the 313 community. When referring to "Swedish > Techno" in this sense- it may or may not actually be coming from Sweden, > and by no means represents all of the techno coming out of Sweden- > > I find the second definition more commonly used than the first, but the > context in which it is used usually clarifies the intended definition > quite easily. > > I'm guessing this is pretty obvious to most, but in the world of email > groups- continuity of semantics helps keep what little order we have from > becoming total chaos.. > > p > well def number 2 313 is famous for their overreacting in a troll allert :)
Re: (313) Swedish Techno/ was Every Dog 4
> I have heard a lot of Swedish techno/tech-house that is NOT just 2-beat loops > but some quite musical material. I'm surprised the Swedes get hated on so > much. > just a quick note on swedich techno because this topic seems to get folks talking in circles without really getting anywhere: I've noticed "Swedish Techno" has two different meanings in general conversation: 1. Techno from Sweden - I'm sure nobody will argue that some of this is quite varied, musical, interesting, etc, etc.. 2. A Techno Style characterized by the minimal clubby compositions and compressed drum sounds for maximum loudness:) This stuff got a lot of exposure from Swedish Labels/Producers in the late 90's ala Adam Beyer/ Drum Code, etc.. This style is not too varied, and over the last few years has become even more formulaic that it was in the beginning - hence the disinterest from some of the 313 community. When referring to "Swedish Techno" in this sense- it may or may not actually be coming from Sweden, and by no means represents all of the techno coming out of Sweden- I find the second definition more commonly used than the first, but the context in which it is used usually clarifies the intended definition quite easily. I'm guessing this is pretty obvious to most, but in the world of email groups- continuity of semantics helps keep what little order we have from becoming total chaos.. p
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> Hmmm...this brings a whole new light to those David > Hasselhoff albums... > > http://allmusic.com/cg/x.dll?p=amg&sql=B142889 Whooohooo!!! Is this stuff available on vinyl??;) Nick (Dj Pacific:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> Hell, if he started dropping Inner > City "Good Life" would > that make it trance as well? Julesy probably hasn't even heard of it;) Nick(Dj Pacific:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
quick, get us out of here, KIT!!!(whooow whooow)
RE: [313] Swedish Techno
> >IMHO good music is the music which provokes other > musicians(positive or > >negative) > > > > > > > >154 > > Hmmm...this brings a whole new light to those David > Hasselhoff albums... David Hasselhoff? what ?!?! Hey guys i've got another great idea, lets start a mailinglist about Detroit-techno and call it 313? Who wants to join? [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
david rox!!
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:38:46 +0200 IMHO good music is the music which provokes other musicians(positive or negative) 154 Hmmm...this brings a whole new light to those David Hasselhoff albums... http://allmusic.com/cg/x.dll?p=amg&sql=B142889 d _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Agreed, there's a little too much nordic techno which is all production and no feeling (with the exception of the wonderful and highly funky Cari Lekebush)-although the production is impressively crisp I wonder does this tendency have something to do with the massive Swedish suicide rate? I have also read that the most common record found on the turntables of suicidal swedes is Abba's "dancing queen" (who collects this information?). This makes perfect sense to me. Seth Ive personally felt swedish techno was always missing something...I don't want to say the words 'soul' or 'funk' as thats a bit harsh, but something just a stop short or it. d _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Or maybe a more obvious link. http://www.sonox.com/main/electronica/style.box?showall=1&category=4 // janos JANOS A&R/ Editor Electronic Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone+46.(0)8.729.88.07 Cellphone...+46.(0)708.40.50.77 Fax.+46.(0)8.598.200.64 AdressTomtebogatan 36 SE-100 31 Stockholm .Sweden Web.www.sonox.com
RE: [313] Swedish Techno
> I appreciate what minimalists like Neil Landstrumm and Cristian > Vogel are doing, but they aren't generally as urgently propulsive as > the recent Surgeon stuff (with the exception of "Gigolos Trapped in > Retro Hell" from Landstrumm's _Pro Audio_, which is both perfectly > titled and totally slamming -- well, that and the Super_Collider > record, but that's something else altogether). isn't Vogel one half of Super Collider ? or are there two Vogel out there ? Gwendal
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
qualification of music on an "objective level should be about functionality. how valid an argument is without talking about its content can b rated by looking at the reactions it provokes in the same discussion. and then u r just talking about the people having the conversation, the musicians. and that's not everybody, but anyone CAN B 1 !! just a thought 154
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
IMHO good music is the music which provokes other musicians(positive or negative) 154
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> I'm at least as interested as anyone else in understanding what makes > good music good, if only because that would make it easier for me to > make good music myself. I think it just comes down to figuring out what you like. ;>
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Hey Ozymandias... > Do you want to move booties or do > you want to make people scratch their chins? The artists I've been > enjoying the most recently tend to fall squarely in the middle and be > very good at splitting the distance between the two. I'd like to get your current top ten list because that's what I'm going for, too. ;)
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
I agree with you about 'De Sju Skenande Kompressorerna'. Stirring stuff. I think it is available on vinyl on "Vet Dom Som Fer Att" (Know They For Because). Happy Hunting, Nik _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Nick Well go as far to say it's close to trance... How so? Everything is three steps off from one style or the other. I know Julesy was playing "The Mole" a few months back... Lots of UK trance dj's play that kinda stuff... And they are also banging out Jaguar...guilt by association? The UK trance DJs are playing these tracks in their sets because the "trance" stuff coming out now has run it's course and people are looking for something with more guts. It's not that this music is closer to trance (albeit, some early Hybrid tracks approached it back in '95 but so did loads of techno) it's just that the DJs ears are looking for something with more than just a bunch of drum rolls. Just because Jules plays "The Mole" doesn't make it trance. Hell, if he started dropping Inner City "Good Life" would that make it trance as well? Fred From: Nick Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Well go as far to say it's close to trance... I know Julesy was playing "The Mole" a few months back... Lots of UK trance dj's play that kinda stuff... Gimme the Detroit Escalator Co anyday... Dj Pacific:) --- Diana Potts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ive personally felt swedish techno was always > missing something...I don't > want to say the words 'soul' or 'funk' as thats a > bit harsh, but something > just a stop short or it. > > d > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >CC: 313@hyperreal.org > >Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno > >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:16:58 EDT > > > >What's the best place to start for Swedish Techno. > >A few CD's please. > >thanks > > > >mediadrome > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own > public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> "dn" == darw_n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: dn> Anyways, there is a wrench in my gears in that ALOT of people dn> like music for many different reasons, and they are often not dn> truthful about it. One of my huge stumbling blocks in my dn> research is this need to like something simply because its dn> proper or because it was created by someone historical, or dn> even worse, simply because it is cutting edge. This makes my dn> work very difficult for it illiminates any possibilty of dn> knowing what they _really_ like to hear... Good luck separating music from its social context. Sometimes I will be absolutely raving fanatical about a new record because it's by someone whose previous records I've loved, only to realize a few months later that what was happening was that I was happy to have a new record by producer X more than actually liking that particular record (most recent egregious example: last year's incredibly tedious Underworld album). I think it is a very odd duck indeed who never does this. By contrast, I'm guilty of ignoring an artist's work because I haven't liked what they were making before and / or the scene of which they're a part, only to realize later that I was being a close-minded idiot. Again, I think most of us do this from time to time. dn> The other thing is that I am not attempting to create a MMTI dn> type test, in which you answer 25 vquestion, and wham, I can dn> tell you if you'll like Paper Records or Code Red, no. I am dn> simply trying to figure out a general pattern of typing, with dn> room for all the "middle of the road" types. dn> I hate to think that we like what we like "just because", I am dn> after a clearer vision of "why"... Creativity and our individual responses to it are probably the most subjective things in life. I don't think we like things "just because", but I do think that the "real" reasons why _Live at the Liquid Room_ ripped my head off the first time I heard it, say, or why I damn near started crying tears of joy the first time I heard Daft Punk play live would be better explained within a therapeutic / historical context than through any sort of reductive model or theory. A useful example is those services on sites like amazon.com that try to recommend music to you based on what you've already bought or claimed to like. It's like shaking a Magic 8-Ball -- you never know what's coming up next. I'm at least as interested as anyone else in understanding what makes good music good, if only because that would make it easier for me to make good music myself. But figuring out psychological models that predispose certain people to like certain sorts of art, well, that doesn't seem so fertile a field for exploration. In any case, good luck. Forrest . . . the self-reflecting image of a narcotized mind . . . ozymandias G desiderata [EMAIL PROTECTED] desperate, deathless (415)558-9064http://www.aoaioxxysz.com/ ::AOAIOXXYSZ::
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> "dn" == darw_n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: dn> I am so interested in this, so excuse my frequent posting!! dn> But I am interested in how personality typing plays in all dn> this... dn> For instance, are the lovers of Swedish techno generally dn> introverted (i.e., only needs very slight informational input dn> to feel fulfilled) and is people, like Diane here, who find dn> Swedish Techno boring and lacking more extroverted (i.e. needs dn> generally more sensory input to achieve satisfaction)... This notion is so off-base that I can't stay away from it. It's like poking a loose tooth with my tongue. But since you went out on a limb and posited a theory, I'll reply with a theory of my own. In short: no, I don't think that's the way things work. For starters: I like extremely dense, maximalistic dance music (which is what first attracted me to UK hardcore and jungle), but I also like the more ascetic sorts of minimalism (Plastikman, Riou, Landstrumm). You could make the argument that I'm both introverted and extroverted, but that seems silly. My real point is that any real human being is far too complicated to explain with such simple models. I think our musical / artistic tastes arise from the same sorts of processes that produce our sexual tastes, and I shouldn't have to tell anyone here how infinitely variegated _those_ are. The process is deep, mysterious, and not really amenable to any theory any less complex than, say, Freud's. dn> A neat thing is this "soulful" and "soulless" concept. Again, dn> I think the beauty of any good music is that it captures the dn> makers/artists "soul", but the beauty of things like Swedish dn> techno is that indeed it is "soulless", allowing the listener dn> to add their own "soul"... Hmm... again, not buying it. I will agree that one of the cool things about techno is its generally neutral emotional context, but that's different from being "soulless". A productive conversation could probably be had about what constitutes "soul" in music, but I think the general populace of 313 would quickly grow impatient with a discussion that theoretical. In any case, one person's "soulless" DJ tool is another person's favorite, most emotional track in the whole world, and both listeners may have arrived at that conclusion independent of the context in which they originally heard the music. They both might find the music inherently soulful. Again, things get all complicated and psychological. For me, the essential attribute is balance, particularly having to do with the frequency range of a track. For techno, the midrange is negative space, in the same way that the sky and the horizon line are used as negative space in all those Italian Renaissance paintings. All the interesting stuff happens around that negative space. A track that's got lots of intricate things happening in the high trebles and low basses is more interesting than a track that has a lot of undifferentiated stuff going on in the midrange. This is a lot of why I find most trance so unappealing -- there's lots going on, but it's all in the midrange, which is what sounds the least interesting when you turn it up loud. Likewise, part of the reason I've grown disenchanted with d'n'b is that it's obsessed with that midrange hoover groan over the last couple years, leaving out the chunky basslines and spastic high hats. All the Detroit innovators appear to have intuitively figured this out, because most of the old Detroit tracks have, for me, the perfect balance of low and high end. It's this same balance that the Birmingham crew appear to have hit upon recently, which is why I like their new material so much more than the old. Good two-step garage has this pegged as well. Well, it's a theory, at least. Forrest . . . the self-reflecting image of a narcotized mind . . . ozymandias G desiderata [EMAIL PROTECTED] desperate, deathless (415)558-9064http://www.aoaioxxysz.com/ ::AOAIOXXYSZ::
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> "cw" == Cyclone Wehner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cw> What issue is this? I find that a lot too - and here too cw> among some quarters there is always some new name the techno cw> heads are championing, usually white and British - but you cw> will always find that Black producers like Dave Angel and Carl cw> Cox identify far closer with it, which I think says cw> something. It could be a English thing - the likes of Laurent cw> Garnier and DJ Q are less inclined to see Detroit as something cw> that they have to rebel against or whatever. To toss another spurious dichotomy into the ring, I think at least part of this boils down to where producers / DJs fall on the spectrum between "disco" and "avant-garde". Do you want to move booties or do you want to make people scratch their chins? The artists I've been enjoying the most recently tend to fall squarely in the middle and be very good at splitting the distance between the two. People who want to "make a statement", who want to be part of the avant-garde, generally have something to prove. They're also more inclined to believe that their ideas are uniquely their own (whether that's true or not is an exercise best left to each individual listener). Other artists are more into being part of a community, and they're more likely to see their ideas as growing out of the community that produced them. Considering that all of us drift to both of these poles at different times in our lives, it gets to be very difficult to ascertain motives at any particular time. Read interviews with Derrick May and Jeff Mills (two of the more prickly / cerebral Detroit figures) over the years and it becomes evident that they aren't always consistent about whether they're innovators or part of a cultural continuum. Surgeon's claimed different things at different times as well. >> As I remember a few years ago in interview, Surgeon mention >> something darker and harder detriot music definitely influence >> him anyway I like what all of them are doing, much respect cw> Yeah, I remember that too. It's funny. That's why you've gotta cw> respect the likes of Ho and DJ Hell who give it up to the cw> likes of Mills. I find it next to impossible to talk about techno without the conversation eventually returning to Detroit, and I'm suspicious of anyone who claims to have any sort of wide-ranging expertise in techno who _doesn't_ prominently bring Detroit into the discussion on a frequent basis -- producers moreso than the rest of us. The more I listen to the old Detroit techno (and there's still so much more of it to find!), the more inescapable its influence seems to be. Forrest . . . the self-reflecting image of a narcotized mind . . . ozymandias G desiderata [EMAIL PROTECTED] desperate, deathless (415)558-9064http://www.aoaioxxysz.com/ ::AOAIOXXYSZ::
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> "cw" == Cyclone Wehner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cw> I think the antagonism to the Swedish stuff arises from the cw> fact that the likes of Cari and Adam have been so prolific - cw> saturating the market and subscribing to a formula, even cw> inadvertently. Also it's not material that you can listen to cw> in different environments necessarily, like on a walkman in cw> the tram/bus. As DJ tool material, it's OK, but maybe people cw> are not using it very adventurously. Also I doubt if anyone cw> aside from a trainspotter could recognise or name a track by cw> either those guys or Christian Smith - it's very anonymous. cw> It's not like there is a stand-out track like Jaguar, The cw> Bells, etc. I have the first Hybrid compilation, and it's some of the most turgid and characterless techno I own. Before I bought it, I thought I _liked_ that kind of dark, reverb-soaked minimal trance (I was a HUGE fan of Reload Records before it got all sucky), but I realized I didn't like it unreservedly, because every time I put that CD on it immediately turns into sonic wallpaper. I've tried and tried to mix with those tracks over the years, but it never sounds right. Here in SF, the techno purists started really getting into the Swedish sound about three years ago, and it really brought me down, because that stuff, and the more stripped down variety of tech house, were all that were getting much play. It led to very monochromatic evenings. And I think that at least part of the reason that happens is because those tracks lend themselves to being clicked together like little Legos (to choose another Scandinavian export as a metaphor). Once you're in that groove it's really hard to get out. I love hard, minimal, loop-based techno, but I also like variety. Smart people like Jeff Mills can make that music work in more diverse sets, but as we all know there aren't many DJs of his caliber. cw> Sure Surgeon and Ruskin and more so Ho subscribe to a more cw> intellectual ethos but that said Surgeon insisted in an cw> interview here that he has no affinity with the Mills/Hood cw> cerebralism at all when it comes to techno and that it's more cw> like having sex for him (his analogy) - a physical urge. Oddly enough, I can identify with this. One of the interesting things about minimalism is that it can lend itself to multiple interpretations. While I did witter on about how great and coherent _Force + Form_ is, what I like about it is that it makes me want to dance. I appreciate what minimalists like Neil Landstrumm and Cristian Vogel are doing, but they aren't generally as urgently propulsive as the recent Surgeon stuff (with the exception of "Gigolos Trapped in Retro Hell" from Landstrumm's _Pro Audio_, which is both perfectly titled and totally slamming -- well, that and the Super_Collider record, but that's something else altogether). Not to pitch myself into the Lake of Fire, but while I absolutely and unhesitatingly adore (most of) Mills' music, his writing / thinking about techno suffers from a lot of empty pretension. It's obvious that he takes music very seriously, but quite often what he's saying, when the kinks are straightened out, just isn't that profound. And really, when I listen to _Live At The Liquid Room_ or the various other Mills sets I've snagged from the net over the years, I'm not immediately struck by their cerebrality -- mostly because I'm bobbing my head like an idiot. That variety of minimalism is propulsive and booty-moving, and that's what I like about it. cw> Ruskin's album Point 2 is very derivative of Mills, I feel, cw> but as a DJ he is excellent. Really? I won't dispute this (your ears are your ears), but I think the sonic pallette of _Point 2_ is actually much more derivative of _Force + Form_ (there are an awful lot of sounds in common) than anything of Mills'. It's not Art in the same way that _Force + Form_ is, but at the same time it's got lots of little surprises that make me appreciate it. Forrest . . . the self-reflecting image of a narcotized mind . . . ozymandias G desiderata [EMAIL PROTECTED] desperate, deathless (415)558-9064http://www.aoaioxxysz.com/ ::AOAIOXXYSZ::
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Cyclone Wehner wrote: > This is off tangent but I know a lot of the UK press sucks but the > antagonism towards journalists is really out of control right now. There are > good and bad writers out there and the press in other countries varies > considerably, so to use the UK's as a universal model is unfair. But maybe part of that stigma comes from how ubiquitous UK music/dance mags are worldwide. Q, Mixmag and the like can be found in all corners of the world. Maybe they don't (or shouldn't) set the standards for music journalism, but they do such a good job w/distribution it can give people that impression. Which is equally bad, IMO. > Freelancers get no kick backs on ads and there is less editorial control > than you would think in Australia, at least. Freelance rates for many > Australian magazines hasn't risen in a decade - not even in line with > inflation, in fact many glossy magazines are cutting their rates, or worse, > not paying at all regardless of rising circulation and ad income. The people > who do this are committed. Writers are underground even if sometimes the ads > aren't. Writers who actually do the stories and are commited to things good and pure is one thing, but the British dance music press/editors strive to play Popularity Contest with what they choose to go into magazines. Just look at how Musik & Jockey Slut devolved over the past 2-3 years. It's all about clubbing, Ibiza, and progressive trance now, and it's really sad. Sometimes I read old issues of Magic Feet for solace. Even though I admire DJ magazine's effort to bring UK techno back into the spotlight, I thought they gave more attention to certain people in it and shortlisting everyone else on the last page because mentioning certain producers in magazine articles will help sell it. Or maybe DJ mag wanted to prove a point about how vague/diverse 'techno' is. > >there is a interviews with British techno producers > >Surgeon, Oliver Ho, James Ruskins, Regis and Female. > >when they respond to a question about how they affiliate with Detroit > >techno, to my surprise I think all of them try to separate themselves with > >what they do and what Detroit music is, was doing, dont take my > >interpretation, I dont have 100% memory, > >my thing is that I would at least expect some mention or respect from them > >to the originator and fore father, detroit techno > What issue is this? > I find that a lot too - and here too among some quarters there is always > some new name the techno heads are championing, usually white and British - > but you will always find that Black producers like Dave Angel and Carl Cox > identify far closer with it, which I think says something. It could be a > English thing - the likes of Laurent Garnier and DJ Q are less inclined to > see Detroit as something that they have to rebel against or whatever. The most recent article is the 2nd September issue of DJ Magazine (I think). Why these UK producers don't give as much props to Detroit producers is because (and the DJ story mentions this) their musical influences come from more experimental music like Coil, Throbbing Gristle, Steve Reich, and less from Detroit. That they and Detroit-influenced producers meet at the same crossroads is part coincidence. And maybe Laurent Garnier & DJ Q draw their influences from elsewhere too. But what all this is not is an anti-Detroit sentiment. It's more like people assuming that techno automatically comes from Detroit in one way or another, and other influences just doesn't matter as much. Doris x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x 'Opium? No! Cocaine? No! The Great American Brain Killer Is Dance Music!' --Portland Oregonian, 1932 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Huh. I actually just got back from my Swedish class so this is an interesting topic. I think an important thing to do if you are to compare Swedish Techno to Detroit Techno is realize the different influences. Go back to the time of John Sinclair in Detroit, arguably an influential time in jazz for Techno if we look back on it now. That's just for the simple reason that it was a recent movement, these people (a good majority) are still alive and influenced the artists of today. Swedish rock and jazz were quite different at that time. A lot of 'progg (progressive alternative) musik' was popular in Sweden along with milder forms jazz (if I'm allowed to generalize). From what I have heard of it, progg musik is somewhat like America's hippy bands turned half punk. I think another important point to notice is that Detroit Techno has the great benefit of having Motown as a precursor, firmly embedding "soul" in the city's popular music. Of course Swedish Techno and Detroit Techno are going to sound different. A lot of music is coming out of Stockholm. A beautiful city. A city in a country that arguably has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Likewise, a lot of music is coming out of Detroit. I love Detroit, but I'm not going to say that it's economic status or environment run parallel to Stockholm. And I think this creates a huge influence in the creation of music. I don't want to stereotype all Swedish Techno, but it isn't as dark as Detroit Techno. It isn't as pressing and it doesn't have that edge to it. Perhaps that correlates to the environments. I think this also applies to Swedish House, both end up being not so dark and smoother than their American counterparts. That could just be my personal observation, I'll be happy to see what other people think. In Sweden the government (currently, not so much in the 80's) stands behind young musicians quite a bit more than here. Equipment is available to the public, practice rooms are available to the public, and you can play non traditional instruments in high school if you so choose. I've heard statistics that rank Sweden as the third largest exporter of music in the world (1.US, 2.GB). I've said that on this list before, I think. If correct, it is very impressive considering that the population is about 9 million people. If it isn't correct, oh well. Of course the demographics of race are quite between producers of Detroit and Sweden. I'll leave that point as it is, I don't think it really matters. I've taken a few Swedes to hear Detroit Techno. They all think its hard and dark but energetic. Of course, we did see Alan Oldham. hej då /j
Re: [Re: [313] Swedish "Techno"
Pardon me if this string forces my hand , as it where... firstly is it known that genralizations are genrally non-functional they exsist only in a non-reality,reality , to fullfill the need to fit everything into a catagory .Second the comment re: lady Di's need to have " genrally more sensory input to acheive satisfaction" Are we really gonna quantify music into some sort of science experiment ? Why do some like classical and other country ... and good lord whatdo we do about those who prefer classical renditions of country tunes? Why does one individual like a particular painting and the next not? can we quantify the color ratio? or maybe it's a post mod vs. modern varible we can fit into the equationNext is the 13:30pm note re: wrench in your gears .."ALOT of people like music for many different reasons".? h I would dare to say that EVERYONE likes what they like for many, many different reasons. Also , I feel like I'm walking the frail edge here; to say "even worse, simply because it's cutting edge"??This seems incredible if , for some of those out 'there' , that could be no better reason to check out something new :Because it's new and fresh thusly cutting edge Finally this just makes me smile; after saying being genral is a "handicap for sure" you come back with .."I am simply trying to figure out a GENRAL pattern or typing , with room for all 'midddle of the road types'"O.K MR Spock ..just kiddin'... But I must say you follow with " I hate to think we like what we like 'just because' I am after a clearer vision why" I would say look within , why do you like what you like (I hope it's more than just because)This applies to many things if the music thing is messin you up.. I would say re: this whole swedish "techno" thing , what comes from over there is reactionary at best and therefore, lacking in insperation and extremely repetive I dont know bout tone shifts and all that but someone posted this " when your being boring the mind wanders" You are on this planet to create ..not compete or compare "darw_n" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I think the introverted/extroverted personality/music match is > doomed to failure. Well, as I was just telling someone, I have a tendency to be very general and vastly broad and absolute, a handicap fo sure... Anyways, there is a wrench in my gears in that ALOT of people like music for many different reasons, and they are often not truthful about it. One of my huge stumbling blocks in my research is this need to like something simply because its proper or because it was created by someone historical, or even worse, simply because it is cutting edge. This makes my work very difficult for it illiminates any possibilty of knowing what they _really_ like to hear... The other thing is that I am not attempting to create a MMTI type test, in which you answer 25 vquestion, and wham, I can tell you if you'll like Paper Records or Code Red, no. I am simply trying to figure out a general pattern of typing, with room for all the "middle of the road" types. I hate to think that we like what we like "just because", I am after a clearer vision of "why"... Perhaps Beyer is a good example of my theories though in that he is very introverted, and his music is _very_ repetitive, and _very_ suceptible to toneshifts... darw_n "create, demonstrate, toneshift..." http://www.mp3.com/darw_n http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html http://www.mannequinodd.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
It's "Phases" and it's not bad... Rich. On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:14:27 -0300 Spiceee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >| Ive personally felt swedish techno was always missing something...I don't >| want to say the words 'soul' or 'funk' as thats a bit harsh, but something >| just a stop short or it. > >go to your fave record store and check out adam beyer & peter benish "faces >ep" on inside... if theres not enough soul in there to fill a truck i dont >know what soul is about. > >not that i even care. > > ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ > (_-< / _ \ / // __// -_)/ -_)/ -_) > /___// .__//_/ \__/ \__/ \__/ \__/ > /_/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ICQ.4627247.altere.a.mimica. > www.spiceee.com > > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Get Email, News, Links and The Best Selection at http://AnimeNation.com
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
>As I was reading this Month DJ mag, I know I should not read those mass >media control trash, anyway This is off tangent but I know a lot of the UK press sucks but the antagonism towards journalists is really out of control right now. There are good and bad writers out there and the press in other countries varies considerably, so to use the UK's as a universal model is unfair. Freelancers get no kick backs on ads and there is less editorial control than you would think in Australia, at least. Freelance rates for many Australian magazines hasn't risen in a decade - not even in line with inflation, in fact many glossy magazines are cutting their rates, or worse, not paying at all regardless of rising circulation and ad income. The people who do this are committed. Writers are underground even if sometimes the ads aren't. >there is a interviews with British techno producers >Surgeon, Oliver Ho, James Ruskins, Regis and Female. >when they respond to a question about how they affiliate with Detroit >techno, to my surprise I think all of them try to separate themselves with >what they do and what Detroit music is, was doing, dont take my >interpretation, I dont have 100% memory, >my thing is that I would at least expect some mention or respect from them >to the originator and fore father, detroit techno What issue is this? I find that a lot too - and here too among some quarters there is always some new name the techno heads are championing, usually white and British - but you will always find that Black producers like Dave Angel and Carl Cox identify far closer with it, which I think says something. It could be a English thing - the likes of Laurent Garnier and DJ Q are less inclined to see Detroit as something that they have to rebel against or whatever. >As I remember a few years ago in interview, Surgeon mention something darker >and harder detriot music definitely influence him >anyway I like what all of them are doing, much respect Yeah, I remember that too. It's funny. That's why you've gotta respect the likes of Ho and DJ Hell who give it up to the likes of Mills.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
i know of another dj in sydney, who is also very cynical, and doesn't get any gigs. his music selections are out there, in space, so just because no-one but about 6 of us understands where he's at, he gets frustrated and disses everyone for their supposed mediocrity. a party is a party; we're there to have a good time after everything is said and done. maybe tha surgeon is bored, maybe he does it solely for the money? - Original Message - From: "Cyclone Wehner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "313 Detroit" <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 3:08 AM Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno > for that guy [child] to say > >that mills / hood are brothers on another planet, makes sense- the clinical > >nature of his music puts him on par with the writing of j.g. ballard, and > >the person who made the film where two doctor brothers trade metal > >instruments...out.bond > > Surgeon is just a very cynical character - or that is how he projects > himself. I would have thought he was more cerebral. > He really loathes the media in a very major way, which doesn't help. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
>I think the introverted/extroverted personality/music match is > doomed to failure. Well, as I was just telling someone, I have a tendency to be very general and vastly broad and absolute, a handicap fo sure... Anyways, there is a wrench in my gears in that ALOT of people like music for many different reasons, and they are often not truthful about it. One of my huge stumbling blocks in my research is this need to like something simply because its proper or because it was created by someone historical, or even worse, simply because it is cutting edge. This makes my work very difficult for it illiminates any possibilty of knowing what they _really_ like to hear... The other thing is that I am not attempting to create a MMTI type test, in which you answer 25 vquestion, and wham, I can tell you if you'll like Paper Records or Code Red, no. I am simply trying to figure out a general pattern of typing, with room for all the "middle of the road" types. I hate to think that we like what we like "just because", I am after a clearer vision of "why"... Perhaps Beyer is a good example of my theories though in that he is very introverted, and his music is _very_ repetitive, and _very_ suceptible to toneshifts... darw_n "create, demonstrate, toneshift..." http://www.mp3.com/darw_n http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html http://www.mannequinodd.com
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
From: "Cyclone Wehner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313 Detroit <313@hyperreal.org> Subject: [313] Swedish Techno Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:26:27 +1000 Sure Surgeon and Ruskin and more so Ho subscribe to a more intellectual ethos but that said Surgeon insisted in an interview here that he has no affinity with the Mills/Hood cerebralism at all when it comes to techno and that it's more like having sex for him (his analogy) - a physical urge. Ruskin's album Point 2 is very derivative of Mills, I feel, but as a DJ he is excellent. As I was reading this Month DJ mag, I know I should not read those mass media control trash, anyway there is a interviews with British techno producers Surgeon, Oliver Ho, James Ruskins, Regis and Female. when they respond to a question about how they affiliate with Detroit techno, to my surprise I think all of them try to separate themselves with what they do and what Detroit music is, was doing, dont take my interpretation, I dont have 100% memory, my thing is that I would at least expect some mention or respect from them to the originator and fore father, detroit techno As I remember a few years ago in interview, Surgeon mention something darker and harder detriot music definitely influence him anyway I like what all of them are doing, much respect peace out _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
| Ive personally felt swedish techno was always missing something...I don't | want to say the words 'soul' or 'funk' as thats a bit harsh, but something | just a stop short or it. go to your fave record store and check out adam beyer & peter benish "faces ep" on inside... if theres not enough soul in there to fill a truck i dont know what soul is about. not that i even care. ___ ____ ___ ___ ___ (_-< / _ \ / // __// -_)/ -_)/ -_) /___// .__//_/ \__/ \__/ \__/ \__/ /_/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ.4627247.altere.a.mimica. www.spiceee.com
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
for that guy [child] to say >that mills / hood are brothers on another planet, makes sense- the clinical >nature of his music puts him on par with the writing of j.g. ballard, and >the person who made the film where two doctor brothers trade metal >instruments...out.bond Surgeon is just a very cynical character - or that is how he projects himself. I would have thought he was more cerebral. He really loathes the media in a very major way, which doesn't help.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
>I am so interested in this, so excuse my frequent posting!! > >But I am interested in how personality typing plays in all this... > >For instance, are the lovers of Swedish techno generally introverted (i.e., >only needs very slight informational input to feel fulfilled) Well from my very impressionistic encounters with Cari and Adam in an interview situation, I would say yes, they are intoverted. They give nothing away. But Christian is very extrovert - he comes out here to Australia often and is very gregarious. I think the introverted/extroverted personality/music match is doomed to failure. Plenty of extroverts DJ and make techno, plenty of extroverts like it. One thing I've noticed is that male producers are very disinclined to talk about how emotion relates to their music, women feel more comfortable with it.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
I am so interested in this, so excuse my frequent posting!! But I am interested in how personality typing plays in all this... For instance, are the lovers of Swedish techno generally introverted (i.e., only needs very slight informational input to feel fulfilled) and is people, like Diane here, who find Swedish Techno boring and lacking more extroverted (i.e. needs generally more sensory input to achieve satisfaction)... *note, I am saying "generally"* A neat thing is this "soulful" and "soulless" concept. Again, I think the beauty of any good music is that it captures the makers/artists "soul", but the beauty of things like Swedish techno is that indeed it is "soulless", allowing the listener to add their own "soul"... darw_n "create, demonstrate, toneshift..." http://www.mp3.com/darw_n http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html http://www.mannequinodd.com - Original Message - From: "Diana Potts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno > > Ive personally felt swedish techno was always missing something...I don't > want to say the words 'soul' or 'funk' as thats a bit harsh, but something > just a stop short or it. > > d > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >CC: 313@hyperreal.org > >Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno > >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:16:58 EDT > > > >What's the best place to start for Swedish Techno. > >A few CD's please. > >thanks > > > >mediadrome > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Here's a song for you. Probably the best song Cari Lekenbusch has ever produced called> De Sju Skenande Kompressorerna it's on the cd HPCD10 track 22 (Cari Lekebusch -DET JAG VET) Oops im a trainspotter though... If anybody nows where i can get it on vynl let me know Thanks Sean Cyclone Wehner wrote: > I doubt if anyone aside from a > trainspotter could recognise or name a track by either those guys or > Christian Smith - it's very anonymous. It's not like there is a stand-out > track like Jaguar, The Bells, etc.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
yes, but bauhaus became ikea - a cheap imitation of the original...out.bond - Original Message - From: "darw_n" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Cyclone Wehner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "313 Detroit" <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 5:21 AM Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno > >Also it's not material that > > you can listen to in different environments necessarily, like on a walkman > > in the tram/bus. > > > I disagree... > > > > Also I doubt if anyone aside from a > > trainspotter could recognise or name a track by either those guys or > > Christian Smith - it's very anonymous. > > I state that this is the utter beauty of it!! Why have an identifiable > artist? Also, the fact that its raw and so undefined allows so much more > room for the listener to project out onto, the Jaguar and other melodic > tracks are, of coarse, amazing in there own right, but the listener has very > little freedom as to what to feel, the track tells them pretty much exactly > how to feel, (notice for kicks and giggles, I'm not mentioning my own theory > by name, but none the less, this is the very appeal I was talking about a > minute ago). I find the some of the real innovation of that "Swedish" > techno and this rhythmically orientated scene for the most part is that the > listener has as much, if not more, autonomy as the artist, minimalism > really, Bauhaus in structure, for the image and recognition of the artist as > a revered entity is completely unnecessary for the listener... > > I think Beyer and Company found an important key, and I hold no grudges for > them making a prolific list of very similar tracks, for since melody is > gone, and their tracks operate on "effect", then why be drastic from change > to change, subtlety is all that is needed for the listener to be free... > > > darw_n > > "create, demonstrate, toneshift..." > http://www.mp3.com/darw_n > http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html > http://www.mannequinodd.com > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Well go as far to say it's close to trance... I know Julesy was playing "The Mole" a few months back... Lots of UK trance dj's play that kinda stuff... Gimme the Detroit Escalator Co anyday... Dj Pacific:) --- Diana Potts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ive personally felt swedish techno was always > missing something...I don't > want to say the words 'soul' or 'funk' as thats a > bit harsh, but something > just a stop short or it. > > d > > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >CC: 313@hyperreal.org > >Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno > >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:16:58 EDT > > > >What's the best place to start for Swedish Techno. > >A few CD's please. > >thanks > > > >mediadrome > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own > public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
>>Also it's not material that >> you can listen to in different environments necessarily, like on a walkman >> in the tram/bus. > > >I disagree... Well maybe some do - I find it easy to listen to progressive trance when I work as it doesn't distract me though I don't dig it at all. But many wouldn't be able to hack it. That's why I used the qualifier "necessarily" - I specialise in qualifying words. >I state that this is the utter beauty of it!! Why have an identifiable >artist? Well there is good anonymous and less alluring anonymous - like boy bands and blonde pop singers could fall in the latter category. I mean 'anonymous' as in instantly forgettable and emphemeral which is fine, everything has its place, even Spice and Britney, etc, which is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Also, the fact that its raw and so undefined allows so much more >room for the listener to project out onto, the Jaguar and other melodic >tracks are, of coarse, amazing in there own right, Actually, I never used the word 'melodic' and that isn't necessary for a good track - it could be the groove or the texture or an effect or something of that nature. I just don't think that Swedish stuff endures on that level. It's all good. I have some of those guys' stuff too. I like Cari and Adam's housier work on Svek - some of which is now available on CD, by the way.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
Ive personally felt swedish techno was always missing something...I don't want to say the words 'soul' or 'funk' as thats a bit harsh, but something just a stop short or it. d From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Swedish Techno Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:16:58 EDT What's the best place to start for Swedish Techno. A few CD's please. thanks mediadrome - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
the swedes produced volvos, prototype airline stewards, absolut, abba, bjorn borg all these people/ entities were successful, methodical, efficient, but people are people, we have to feed our souls, and swedish techno went out with fad diets..for that guy [child] to say that mills / hood are brothers on another planet, makes sense- the clinical nature of his music puts him on par with the writing of j.g. ballard, and the person who made the film where two doctor brothers trade metal instruments...out.bond - Original Message - From: "Cyclone Wehner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "313 Detroit" <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:26 AM Subject: [313] Swedish Techno > I think the antagonism to the Swedish stuff arises from the fact that the > likes of Cari and Adam have been so prolific - saturating the market and > subscribing to a formula, even inadvertently. Also it's not material that > you can listen to in different environments necessarily, like on a walkman > in the tram/bus. As DJ tool material, it's OK, but maybe people are not > using it very adventurously. Also I doubt if anyone aside from a > trainspotter could recognise or name a track by either those guys or > Christian Smith - it's very anonymous. It's not like there is a stand-out > track like Jaguar, The Bells, etc. > > It's cyclical and I would say that those guys are are mostly moving on > anyway. > > One great track in that genre is Andrew McLauchlan's (sp) Love Story - but I > am assuming he's British. > > Sure Surgeon and Ruskin and more so Ho subscribe to a more intellectual > ethos but that said Surgeon insisted in an interview here that he has no > affinity with the Mills/Hood cerebralism at all when it comes to techno and > that it's more like having sex for him (his analogy) - a physical urge. > Ruskin's album Point 2 is very derivative of Mills, I feel, but as a DJ he > is excellent. > > >Awww... poor you. Well, it ain't called the Detroit > >313 mailing list fer nothing. Listen to 3 hours of > >easy listening Burt Bacharach style and you'll grow to > >hate "banging" music too... I think it depends on who > >you are tho. > > > >I'm not trying to sound like my parents but you have > >to go out and listen to "proper" music once in a > >while, you'll find yourself hating everything else for > >a couple of days and then you'll incorporate what > >you've "learnt" into your life. That's what happens to > >me anyway... Maybe I'm just weird:) > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
>Also it's not material that > you can listen to in different environments necessarily, like on a walkman > in the tram/bus. I disagree... > Also I doubt if anyone aside from a > trainspotter could recognise or name a track by either those guys or > Christian Smith - it's very anonymous. I state that this is the utter beauty of it!! Why have an identifiable artist? Also, the fact that its raw and so undefined allows so much more room for the listener to project out onto, the Jaguar and other melodic tracks are, of coarse, amazing in there own right, but the listener has very little freedom as to what to feel, the track tells them pretty much exactly how to feel, (notice for kicks and giggles, I'm not mentioning my own theory by name, but none the less, this is the very appeal I was talking about a minute ago). I find the some of the real innovation of that "Swedish" techno and this rhythmically orientated scene for the most part is that the listener has as much, if not more, autonomy as the artist, minimalism really, Bauhaus in structure, for the image and recognition of the artist as a revered entity is completely unnecessary for the listener... I think Beyer and Company found an important key, and I hold no grudges for them making a prolific list of very similar tracks, for since melody is gone, and their tracks operate on "effect", then why be drastic from change to change, subtlety is all that is needed for the listener to be free... darw_n "create, demonstrate, toneshift..." http://www.mp3.com/darw_n http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html http://www.mannequinodd.com
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
What's the best place to start for Swedish Techno. A few CD's please. thanks mediadrome
Re: [313] Swedish Techno
> As DJ tool material, it's OK, but > maybe people are not > using it very adventurously. Also I doubt if anyone > aside from a > trainspotter could recognise or name a track by > either those guys or > Christian Smith - it's very anonymous. It's not like hmmm... if the truth beknown I've got quite a few Christian Smith tunes. I've bought stuff from Tronic and Primate and Mankind before and played it out... Not my thing tho... I prefer Detroit techno, rugged urban style... That's why I joined this list... I think it all depends on the person, I actually liked some of that stuff at the time... I've grown sick of it tho... It's the what ppl think when you say you listen to techno, they think you listen to that stuff. bye, Nick __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
