date:20210305

You can flush cut with a razor knife. I do it whenever I come across
untended blades that arent cutting flush (I dont know what the hell techs
do to the blades)

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 2:55 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I bought a bag of through the connecter connectors once a long time ago.
> I tried to cut the wires with a flush cutter wire dykes.  Too much wire
> still stuck out the end to plug into the jack.  Even tried sawing the end
> with a sharp pocket knife, even tried a razor blade, no such luck.  Barely
> enough to feel is too much, still won't fit.  Tossed the bag and bought a
> different style.
>
> Another problem I've had is old "tough " cable brand LAN cable.  Cables I
> made up 6 years ago the cable jacket has shrunk and pulled out of the
> connectors leaving as much as 3/4 inch between cable jacket end and
> connector.  Looks like a fitting put together by an amateur.  What brand is
> outdoor cable rated (with metal foil and ground wire) that the jacket
> material does not shrink?
>
> In addition, the crimper I'm using has a tendency to short the wires
> together where they fit under the jacket when the plastic edge comes into
> contact with the jacket (during crimping), this really sux.  Perfect
> looking fittings on both ends, one or both are shorted out.  The only fix
> I've found is to try to undo the twist of the wires below where the jack
> covers under where the plastic captures the cable.  Maybe I need a
> different kind of jacket capture design in the connectors I purchase?
> On 3/5/21 10:14 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I don't know anything about 50 micron/u of gold or anything, but we
> clearly see a quality difference between the brands discussed in this
> thread.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
>> We have been using the connectors from TJ and they are working well.
>> The connectors we used in the past were the Platinum Tools ones and were
>> pretty expensive.   TJ’s work just as well or better and are better priced.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 11:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers
>>
>>
>>
>> Most all of them are gold plated to some degree, the highest is generally
>> 50 micron/u of gold and some of the lowest is 3 micron or none.  The
>> connectors we have made are 50u, pass thru, shielded with the ground lug.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Anyone that wants a sample just send me a name and address.
>>
>>
>>
>> TJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:24 AM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come from the same
>> factory, we buy them from the factory direct in bulk. If you can buy 1,000
>> pcs or more and want to save a bit hit me off  the list.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This one?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Tried to find that this morning to put in our wiki, actually.  I got it
>> from Streakwave.  My guy is out of the office today, though.  And the
>> website is broken if you search crimper.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you need it right away just call someone at Streakwave and ask for
>> crimpers.  If there are multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks has
>> been buying.  The new ones are blue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Josh,
>>
>>
>>
>> Any chance you could send the info on the tool you are using with them?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 1:19 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 100% Shireen smartfeed connectors.  I think they made the tool, too.  It
>> nearly eliminated our rj45/cat5 problems.  At least 99% resolved I'd say.
>>
>>
>> We tried Arc/Ubnt/Netonix in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:06 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> We currently use 2061 dies in regular crimp frames.  Debating buying new
>> dies vs moving to something else.  Looking for something as tech-proof as
>> possible that doesn't rely on them knowing how much to squeeze.  Any
>>

Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers


David,

the shorts are coming from under where the plastic grabs the cable 
jacket.  The wires under the jacket area get crushed together and push 
through the insulators per individual wire forming an electrical 
connection to several wires at once.  The connector will look perfect 
during inspection.  And fail to function, the tester will show numerous 
wires shorted.  This problem is less frequent with outdoor metal foil 
cables, but most frequently with indoor cables.  The outdoor cable has a 
thicker jacket offering slightly more protection to the wires is my 
theory.  My old radio shack crimpers works best (at least 20 years old), 
the new crimpers does it more often.  The third pair I got at the local 
hardware store(Ace) was so bad I threw them away (they would mangle the 
plug sometimes causing the gold contacts to push in sideways).  I been 
making my own LAN cables since twisted pair was invented, prior to most 
of you having been born, I just don't know where to get properly built 
tools and supplies anymore.  It seems to be all junk.  Digikey had what 
looked like the same junk I picked up at Ace, I had bought a pair from 
them decades ago that were super-nice (also cost several hundred$). 
Having to make cable-ends twice because the cheap junk stuff fails is 
not saving us money.


I need crimpers that crimp properly, no over-crimping and cable ends 
that fit properly.  I could use some tips on sizing the connectors to 
type of cable.  Right now I'm using ubiquity plugs for the ubiquiti 
tough cables (ground wire) and using CL0190 from Cable Creations (for 
indoor)(Cat 6 UTP) which seem to work better than some other cable ends 
I picked up with the tool I tossed in the garbage.


thanks,

jan


On 3/5/21 1:08 PM, David Coudron wrote:


Completely agree.   Replacing the cutting blade is a big part of 
solving problems.   When it is dull, it pushes the wire ends down and 
doesn’t provide a clean cut. If we have problems with the ends, it is 
those longer ends/tails shorting together most often.    Plus they 
don’t fit into the jack as well.   A good, sharp blade on the correct 
crimping tool makes a big difference.


Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Carl Peterson
*Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 3:03 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

GAM - You need crimpers specific to the feed through connectors and 
the cutting blade needs to be replaced regularly.


The outside cable jacket needs to be under that tab - one of the 
issues I am trying to solve with different connectors.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:55 PM Jan-GAMs > wrote:


I bought a bag of through the connecter connectors once a long
time ago.  I tried to cut the wires with a flush cutter wire
dykes.  Too much wire still stuck out the end to plug into the
jack.  Even tried sawing the end with a sharp pocket knife, even
tried a razor blade, no such luck.  Barely enough to feel is too
much, still won't fit.  Tossed the bag and bought a different style.

Another problem I've had is old "tough " cable brand LAN cable. 
Cables I made up 6 years ago the cable jacket has shrunk and
pulled out of the connectors leaving as much as 3/4 inch between
cable jacket end and connector.  Looks like a fitting put together
by an amateur.  What brand is outdoor cable rated (with metal foil
and ground wire) that the jacket material does not shrink?

In addition, the crimper I'm using has a tendency to short the
wires together where they fit under the jacket when the plastic
edge comes into contact with the jacket (during crimping), this
really sux.  Perfect looking fittings on both ends, one or both
are shorted out.  The only fix I've found is to try to undo the
twist of the wires below where the jack covers under where the
plastic captures the cable.  Maybe I need a different kind of
jacket capture design in the connectors I purchase?

On 3/5/21 10:14 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I don't know anything about 50 micron/u of gold or anything,
but we clearly see a quality difference between the brands
discussed in this thread.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM David Coudron
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:

We have been using the connectors from TJ and they are
working well.   The connectors we used in the past were
the Platinum Tools ones and were pretty expensive.   TJ’s
work just as well or better and are better priced.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
*Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 11:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users

Re: [AFMUG] Grafana

2021-03-05 Thread Dev

Very much yes, but some heavy lifting might be required. Sometimes you can get 
it integrated as an add-on on an ELK stack distro (Elastic 
Search/Logstash/Kibahna) you can just download and install on some hardware. It 
can give you a ton of info about logs, trends, security info. etc. and graph in 
nice dashboard format. Can be memory intensive. Very heavily under continual 
development so new hacks contributed frequently. It’s made to do lots of things 
besides what you plan to do with it, so some staging and triage may be 
required. Some care and feeding required, but it does cool stuff.

> On Mar 5, 2021, at 12:14 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Is Grafana worth playing with?  Somebody showed it to me awhile ago, but I 
> never got around to trying it out.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS

2021-03-05 Thread Mathew Howard

Same. Outdoor speaker wire has been working well for us.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:06 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> The first time I did DC on a tower we got Superior Essex power cable from
> one of the big vendorsmaybe Tesco.
>
> After that roll was gone I think we started using outdoor speaker wire and
> never went back.  It was a lot cheaper and I couldn't see any difference in
> functionality.
> On 3/5/2021 9:01 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> For cable,we're using this:
>
> https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/18-4c-thhn-pvc-tray-cable
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:55 AM Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, source for OSP multipair DC cable?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists
>> 
>> *Date: *Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:51 AM
>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc: *Matthew Kahle 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
>>
>> Matt can get you pricing off list.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>>
>> CTIconnect
>>
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>>
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>>
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> How its less? The LPU kits are 2 units for ~$250
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists
>> 
>> *Date: *Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:36 AM
>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc: *Matthew Kahle 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
>>
>> We’ve been selling the Transtector DC Defender.  It’s much more available
>> and costs less.  1101-1110 is the p/n.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>>
>> CTIconnect
>>
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>>
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>>
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:19 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Im wondering if the Cambium DC SS is the best route for our CN Medusa
>> CBRS deployment.
>>
>>
>>
>> The 4 pin thingy is really a PITA for field techs.  Would the McCown Tech
>> or any other DC SS are a good replacement?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino** Villarini *
>> Founder/President
>> @gvillarini
>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo] 
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender. inc500]
>> 
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
>> 
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender. insta-logo]
>> 
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender. in-logo]
>> 
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender. tw-logo]
>> 
>>
>>
>> [image: Image removed by sender. yt-logo]
>> 
>>
>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

Completely agree.   Replacing the cutting blade is a big part of solving 
problems.   When it is dull, it pushes the wire ends down and doesn’t provide a 
clean cut.   If we have problems with the ends, it is those longer ends/tails 
shorting together most often.Plus they don’t fit into the jack as well.   A 
good, sharp blade on the correct crimping tool makes a big difference.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Carl Peterson
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 3:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

GAM - You need crimpers specific to the feed through connectors and the cutting 
blade needs to be replaced regularly.
The outside cable jacket needs to be under that tab - one of the issues I am 
trying to solve with different connectors.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:55 PM Jan-GAMs 
mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net>> wrote:

I bought a bag of through the connecter connectors once a long time ago.  I 
tried to cut the wires with a flush cutter wire dykes.  Too much wire still 
stuck out the end to plug into the jack.  Even tried sawing the end with a 
sharp pocket knife, even tried a razor blade, no such luck.  Barely enough to 
feel is too much, still won't fit.  Tossed the bag and bought a different style.

Another problem I've had is old "tough " cable brand LAN cable.  Cables I made 
up 6 years ago the cable jacket has shrunk and pulled out of the connectors 
leaving as much as 3/4 inch between cable jacket end and connector.  Looks like 
a fitting put together by an amateur.  What brand is outdoor cable rated (with 
metal foil and ground wire) that the jacket material does not shrink?

In addition, the crimper I'm using has a tendency to short the wires together 
where they fit under the jacket when the plastic edge comes into contact with 
the jacket (during crimping), this really sux.  Perfect looking fittings on 
both ends, one or both are shorted out.  The only fix I've found is to try to 
undo the twist of the wires below where the jack covers under where the plastic 
captures the cable.  Maybe I need a different kind of jacket capture design in 
the connectors I purchase?
On 3/5/21 10:14 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
I don't know anything about 50 micron/u of gold or anything, but we clearly see 
a quality difference between the brands discussed in this thread.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We have been using the connectors from TJ and they are working well.   The 
connectors we used in the past were the Platinum Tools ones and were pretty 
expensive.   TJ’s work just as well or better and are better priced.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 11:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

Most all of them are gold plated to some degree, the highest is generally 50 
micron/u of gold and some of the lowest is 3 micron or none.  The connectors we 
have made are 50u, pass thru, shielded with the ground lug.


 Anyone that wants a sample just send me a name and address.

TJ


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:24 AM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come from the same factory, 
we buy them from the factory direct in bulk. If you can buy 1,000 pcs or more 
and want to save a bit hit me off  the list.

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
This one?

https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Tried to find that this morning to put in our wiki, actually.  I got it from 
Streakwave.  My guy is out of the office today, though.  And the website is 
broken if you search crimper.

If you need it right away just call someone at Streakwave and ask for crimpers. 
 If there are multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks has been buying.  The 
new ones are blue.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
Thanks Josh,

Any chance you could send the info on the tool you are using with them?


On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 1:19 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
100% Shireen smartfeed

Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

2021-03-05 Thread Carl Peterson

GAM - You need crimpers specific to the feed through connectors and the
cutting blade needs to be replaced regularly.
The outside cable jacket needs to be under that tab - one of the issues I
am trying to solve with different connectors.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 2:55 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I bought a bag of through the connecter connectors once a long time ago.
> I tried to cut the wires with a flush cutter wire dykes.  Too much wire
> still stuck out the end to plug into the jack.  Even tried sawing the end
> with a sharp pocket knife, even tried a razor blade, no such luck.  Barely
> enough to feel is too much, still won't fit.  Tossed the bag and bought a
> different style.
>
> Another problem I've had is old "tough " cable brand LAN cable.  Cables I
> made up 6 years ago the cable jacket has shrunk and pulled out of the
> connectors leaving as much as 3/4 inch between cable jacket end and
> connector.  Looks like a fitting put together by an amateur.  What brand is
> outdoor cable rated (with metal foil and ground wire) that the jacket
> material does not shrink?
>
> In addition, the crimper I'm using has a tendency to short the wires
> together where they fit under the jacket when the plastic edge comes into
> contact with the jacket (during crimping), this really sux.  Perfect
> looking fittings on both ends, one or both are shorted out.  The only fix
> I've found is to try to undo the twist of the wires below where the jack
> covers under where the plastic captures the cable.  Maybe I need a
> different kind of jacket capture design in the connectors I purchase?
> On 3/5/21 10:14 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I don't know anything about 50 micron/u of gold or anything, but we
> clearly see a quality difference between the brands discussed in this
> thread.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
>> We have been using the connectors from TJ and they are working well.
>> The connectors we used in the past were the Platinum Tools ones and were
>> pretty expensive.   TJ’s work just as well or better and are better priced.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 11:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers
>>
>>
>>
>> Most all of them are gold plated to some degree, the highest is generally
>> 50 micron/u of gold and some of the lowest is 3 micron or none.  The
>> connectors we have made are 50u, pass thru, shielded with the ground lug.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Anyone that wants a sample just send me a name and address.
>>
>>
>>
>> TJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:24 AM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come from the same
>> factory, we buy them from the factory direct in bulk. If you can buy 1,000
>> pcs or more and want to save a bit hit me off  the list.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This one?
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Tried to find that this morning to put in our wiki, actually.  I got it
>> from Streakwave.  My guy is out of the office today, though.  And the
>> website is broken if you search crimper.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you need it right away just call someone at Streakwave and ask for
>> crimpers.  If there are multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks has
>> been buying.  The new ones are blue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Josh,
>>
>>
>>
>> Any chance you could send the info on the tool you are using with them?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 1:19 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 100% Shireen smartfeed connectors.  I think they made the tool, too.  It
>> nearly eliminated our rj45/cat5 problems.  At least 99% resolved I'd say.
>>
>>
>> We tried Arc/Ubnt/Netonix in the past.
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:06 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> We currently use 2061 dies in regular crimp frames.  Debating buying new
>> dies vs moving to something else.  Looking for something as tech-proof as
>>

Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

I bought a bag of through the connecter connectors once a long time 
ago.  I tried to cut the wires with a flush cutter wire dykes.  Too much 
wire still stuck out the end to plug into the jack.  Even tried sawing 
the end with a sharp pocket knife, even tried a razor blade, no such 
luck.  Barely enough to feel is too much, still won't fit.  Tossed the 
bag and bought a different style.


Another problem I've had is old "tough " cable brand LAN cable. Cables I 
made up 6 years ago the cable jacket has shrunk and pulled out of the 
connectors leaving as much as 3/4 inch between cable jacket end and 
connector.  Looks like a fitting put together by an amateur.  What brand 
is outdoor cable rated (with metal foil and ground wire) that the jacket 
material does not shrink?


In addition, the crimper I'm using has a tendency to short the wires 
together where they fit under the jacket when the plastic edge comes 
into contact with the jacket (during crimping), this really sux.  
Perfect looking fittings on both ends, one or both are shorted out.  The 
only fix I've found is to try to undo the twist of the wires below where 
the jack covers under where the plastic captures the cable.  Maybe I 
need a different kind of jacket capture design in the connectors I purchase?


On 3/5/21 10:14 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
I don't know anything about 50 micron/u of gold or anything, but we 
clearly see a quality difference between the brands discussed in this 
thread.


Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> 
wrote:


We have been using the connectors from TJ and they are working
well.   The connectors we used in the past were the Platinum Tools
ones and were pretty expensive.   TJ’s work just as well or better
and are better priced.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * TJ Trout
*Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 11:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

Most all of them are gold plated to some degree, the highest is
generally 50 micron/u of gold and some of the lowest is 3 micron
or none.  The connectors we have made are 50u, pass thru, shielded
with the ground lug.

 Anyone that wants a sample just send me a name and address.

TJ

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:24 AM Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
wrote:

Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:

Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come
from the same factory, we buy them from the factory direct
in bulk. If you can buy 1,000 pcs or more and want to save
a bit hit me off  the list.

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool



On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:

This one?


https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12



On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

Tried to find that this morning to put in our
wiki, actually.  I got it from Streakwave.  My
guy is out of the office today, though.  And
the website is broken if you search crimper.

If you need it right away just call someone at
Streakwave and ask for crimpers.  If there are
multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks
has been buying.  The new ones are blue.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:

Thanks Josh,

Any chance you could send the info on the
tool you are using with them?

Re: [AFMUG] Grafana

Grafana is very cool if you want to take the time.   It is used pretty heavily 
outside of the WISP/ISP world for monitoring lots of stuff including AWS and 
Azure hosting for large corporate types.   Lots of time it is paired with 
Prometheus or other tools for log monitoring or other items.   We debated on 
making the switch to Grafana rather than refresh our LibreNMS, but decided to 
stay with LibreNMS for now since it has so things already built for wireless.   
 

The graphing is quite a bit better than LibreNMS or Cacti, but it really 
depends on how much time you want to put into getting it all going.

Regards,

David Coudron


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 2:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Grafana

Is Grafana worth playing with?  Somebody showed it to me awhile ago, but I 
never got around to trying it out.



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Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

Yep, I think a wrong turn.   If you have a linux box, you can definitely get 
going for free.   As Steve said, there is lots in there for WISPs right out of 
the box.   We had someone add some custom reports and other items to it.   
Stuff you could do on your own, but we decided to hire someone to do it.   
Pretty cool stuff overall.  Much more reliable monitoring than Sonar which we 
also have running.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 2:18 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields


A year ago I tried to install it, couldn't get it to run and then bumped into a 
license fee.  I must have made a wrong turn.
On 3/5/21 12:12 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I dig it, initial setup is pretty simple if the documentation is followed, odd 
how good their documentation is.

I read all this stuff like I'm looking to do, that doesnt seem as simple, but 
the price is right.



On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 2:08 PM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We recently got LibreNMS up and running in Azure hosting.   Which no longer 
makes it free, but it has been a very stable and well performing way to go so 
far. Trying to keep our server footprint small where it makes sense.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Josh Baird
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 2:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

LibreNMS is free.  You just need a Linux host to run it.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Jan-GAMs 
mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net>> wrote:

What does it cost $$ to deploy librenms?
On 3/5/21 10:09 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
I don't think you would want to just modify the database.  You could add 
support for it in code, though.  Your best bet is to look at the code in GitHub 
(even pull requests for adding new features, etc) and trying to mimic what has 
already been done.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this, but its not clear 
how easy it is to keep it working through migrations/rebuilds of librenms, etc

An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview is 
1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement date for APC UPS. 
custom OID doesnt work because its a date, not a counter or guage

the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all instructions I see 
indicate I need to add a column to the database. Im just now learning SQL, and 
given some time id [probably be comfortable, but right now I just see me 
breaking it. the other code isnt something im familiar with.

Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to collect or graph that 
Im not seeing or comprehending?
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Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

A year ago I tried to install it, couldn't get it to run and then bumped 
into a license fee.  I must have made a wrong turn.


On 3/5/21 12:12 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I dig it, initial setup is pretty simple if the documentation is 
followed, odd how good their documentation is.


I read all this stuff like I'm looking to do, that doesnt seem as 
simple, but the price is right.




On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 2:08 PM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> 
wrote:


We recently got LibreNMS up and running in Azure hosting.   Which
no longer makes it free, but it has been a very stable and well
performing way to go so far.     Trying to keep our server
footprint small where it makes sense.

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Josh Baird
*Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 2:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

LibreNMS is free.  You just need a Linux host to run it.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Jan-GAMs mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net>> wrote:

What does it cost $$ to deploy librenms?

On 3/5/21 10:09 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

I don't think you would want to just modify the database. 
You could add support for it in code, though. Your best
bet is to look at the code in GitHub (even pull requests
for adding new features, etc) and trying to mimic what has
already been done.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.

I see in their forums some advice on doing things like
this, but its not clear how easy it is to keep it
working through migrations/rebuilds of librenms, etc

An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview
is 1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery
replacement date for APC UPS. custom OID doesnt work
because its a date, not a counter or guage

the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all
instructions I see indicate I need to add a column to
the database. Im just now learning SQL, and given some
time id [probably be comfortable, but right now I just
see me breaking it. the other code isnt something im
familiar with.

Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want
to collect or graph that Im not seeing or comprehending?

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[AFMUG] Grafana

Is Grafana worth playing with?  Somebody showed it to me awhile ago, but 
I never got around to trying it out.




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Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

I dig it, initial setup is pretty simple if the documentation is followed,
odd how good their documentation is.

I read all this stuff like I'm looking to do, that doesnt seem as simple,
but the price is right.



On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 2:08 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We recently got LibreNMS up and running in Azure hosting.   Which no
> longer makes it free, but it has been a very stable and well performing way
> to go so far. Trying to keep our server footprint small where it makes
> sense.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 2:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields
>
>
>
> LibreNMS is free.  You just need a Linux host to run it.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
> What does it cost $$ to deploy librenms?
>
> On 3/5/21 10:09 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> I don't think you would want to just modify the database.  You could add
> support for it in code, though.  Your best bet is to look at the code in
> GitHub (even pull requests for adding new features, etc) and trying to
> mimic what has already been done.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
>
> I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this, but its not
> clear how easy it is to keep it working through migrations/rebuilds of
> librenms, etc
>
>
>
> An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview
> is 1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement date for APC
> UPS. custom OID doesnt work because its a date, not a counter or guage
>
>
>
> the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all instructions I see
> indicate I need to add a column to the database. Im just now learning SQL,
> and given some time id [probably be comfortable, but right now I just see
> me breaking it. the other code isnt something im familiar with.
>
>
>
> Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to collect or graph
> that Im not seeing or comprehending?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

If I recall correctly, LibreNMS was forked from Observium..something 
to do with abrasive behavior from an Observium developer.



On 3/5/2021 3:04 PM, Josh Baird wrote:

LibreNMS is free.  You just need a Linux host to run it.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Jan-GAMs > wrote:


What does it cost $$ to deploy librenms?

On 3/5/21 10:09 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

I don't think you would want to just modify the database.  You
could add support for it in code, though.  Your best bet is to
look at the code in GitHub (even pull requests for adding new
features, etc) and trying to mimic what has already been done.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this,
but its not clear how easy it is to keep it working
through migrations/rebuilds of librenms, etc

An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview
is 1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement
date for APC UPS. custom OID doesnt work because its a date,
not a counter or guage

the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all
instructions I see indicate I need to add a column to the
database. Im just now learning SQL, and given some time id
[probably be comfortable, but right now I just see me
breaking it. the other code isnt something im familiar with.

Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to
collect or graph that Im not seeing or comprehending?
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

Probably the worst cause is that the people in charge of creating and
appropriating for funding actually think the internet is a series of tubes
and pipes

On another note regarding what the internet is, I'm trying to bring my kid
in as an intern/apprentice (slave labor I can hit) so I have him doing the
khan academy computer program. It's decent primer for new guys, it's free
and it allows you to track progress. Maybe send a few senators through it

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 2:01 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Final comment before I shut up: The idiots I'm thinking of in all cases
> DID bring service to people who previously didn't have service.  So it's
> not as though the program was entirely useless.  I'm not aware of a
> circumstance where the operator didn't put in a a real effort to reach the
> unserved households they were supposed to reach.  So I'm not accusing
> anyone of fraud and I'm not saying rural broadband funding is inherently
> bad.  You will also never, ever, read a story about someone who got
> broadband funding to build cable on a road and actually built cable on that
> road because that's just not an interesting thing to disect.
>
> I guess I'm just saying sometimes there are dumb people, and sometimes
> they end up in a position where there are consequences to what they do.  I
> think if we're already primed to assume fraud and corruption then we look
> at suboptimal outcomes and assume there's fraud and corruption there.
>
> "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by
> stupidity."
>
>
> On 3/5/2021 1:11 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> Well, no, if somebody is saying he can do 100 down AND UP with CBRS LTE,
> he's just plain lying (or an idiot), even if it is only 1 cpe... and it's
> in the same room as the eNB.
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 11:51 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> I've seen physical audits to confirm that when we submitted for
>> reimbursement for 100 base stations that we actually deployed 100 base
>> stations.  There are financial audits of course, and they'll harp on any
>> perceived irregularity until they're satisfied.  Sometimes the physical
>> auditor wants to see some examples of deployed CPE.
>>
>> In NY Connect and NY Broadband, the project plans had to be reviewed by
>> an outside engineering firm chosen by NY State.  That firm was supposed to
>> assess the technical feasibility of the project.  For wireless coverage we
>> had to tell the firm how we projected coverage and they attempted to
>> duplicate it and confirm that it wasn't made up.  But if they were told
>> "the system has xxDb of gain and coverage is projected to -90RSSi because
>> this spec sheet here says the CPE will connect at -90" then that's what
>> they'll go by to verify that you projected it accurately.  If anybody just
>> drew a circle they would not have made it past the feasibility study.
>>
>> I never saw or heard of a "testing node" to verify coverage in the field,
>> but if they could raise it to the CPE height used in the projection and
>> measure down to the signal shown on the map, then it would have been
>> totally fine.
>>
>> If you had a reasonable projection of coverage and a reasonable
>> projection of capacity then you'd pass feasibility study.  The issue is I
>> don't think anybody put the coverage and capacity side by side and said
>> "you can't connect -xx RSSI and ALSO sell yy Mbps.  It's one or the
>> other".
>>
>> .see I think the difference is you're assuming there's graft or
>> corruption when the reality is that it's just an idiot operator who's being
>> managed by an idiot regulator.  The system will catch the truly incompetent
>> people, but if the operator is marginally competent and also can talk a
>> good game then he can get funded.  It might help if he also plays golf with
>> a senator, but that's not strictly a requirement (nobody I was involved
>> with did that level of hobnobbing).  See most people on this list are here
>> saying "100Mbps disqualifies me as a WISP from getting this funding."  But
>> right now, there's some clown saying, "I can do 100Mbps with my CBRS
>> LTE."   And he's RIGHT as long as he's careful about how many subs per base
>> station and what SNR's he's connecting, but he'll be WRONG if he promises
>> to do that for every census block out in the woods.  In spite of being
>> wrong, he can produce documents from the vendor and empirical testing to
>> "prove" he's right.  He's only wrong when all the pieces come together.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> On 3/5/2021 12:21 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good reason
>> (probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any reason to not have
>> official testing nodes (I thought there were) to verify. Wireless coverage
>> can be propagated, and should be more than a circle on a map. I didnt like
>> it when this all began, When we were providing our data to one of the
>> mapping agents I called for assistance, basically was told to lie(ish).

Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

We recently got LibreNMS up and running in Azure hosting.   Which no longer 
makes it free, but it has been a very stable and well performing way to go so 
far. Trying to keep our server footprint small where it makes sense.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 2:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

LibreNMS is free.  You just need a Linux host to run it.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Jan-GAMs 
mailto:j.vank...@grnacres.net>> wrote:

What does it cost $$ to deploy librenms?
On 3/5/21 10:09 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
I don't think you would want to just modify the database.  You could add 
support for it in code, though.  Your best bet is to look at the code in GitHub 
(even pull requests for adding new features, etc) and trying to mimic what has 
already been done.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this, but its not clear 
how easy it is to keep it working through migrations/rebuilds of librenms, etc

An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview is 
1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement date for APC UPS. 
custom OID doesnt work because its a date, not a counter or guage

the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all instructions I see 
indicate I need to add a column to the database. Im just now learning SQL, and 
given some time id [probably be comfortable, but right now I just see me 
breaking it. the other code isnt something im familiar with.

Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to collect or graph that 
Im not seeing or comprehending?
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Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

LibreNMS is free.  You just need a Linux host to run it.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:01 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> What does it cost $$ to deploy librenms?
> On 3/5/21 10:09 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> I don't think you would want to just modify the database.  You could add
> support for it in code, though.  Your best bet is to look at the code in
> GitHub (even pull requests for adding new features, etc) and trying to
> mimic what has already been done.
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
>> I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this, but its not
>> clear how easy it is to keep it working through migrations/rebuilds of
>> librenms, etc
>>
>> An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview
>> is 1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement date for APC
>> UPS. custom OID doesnt work because its a date, not a counter or guage
>>
>> the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all instructions I see
>> indicate I need to add a column to the database. Im just now learning SQL,
>> and given some time id [probably be comfortable, but right now I just see
>> me breaking it. the other code isnt something im familiar with.
>>
>> Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to collect or graph
>> that Im not seeing or comprehending?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields


What does it cost $$ to deploy librenms?

On 3/5/21 10:09 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
I don't think you would want to just modify the database.  You 
could add support for it in code, though.  Your best bet is to look at 
the code in GitHub (even pull requests for adding new features, etc) 
and trying to mimic what has already been done.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this, but
its not clear how easy it is to keep it working
through migrations/rebuilds of librenms, etc

An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview
is 1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement date
for APC UPS. custom OID doesnt work because its a date, not a
counter or guage

the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all instructions
I see indicate I need to add a column to the database. Im just now
learning SQL, and given some time id [probably be comfortable, but
right now I just see me breaking it. the other code isnt something
im familiar with.

Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to collect
or graph that Im not seeing or comprehending?
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

Final comment before I shut up: The idiots I'm thinking of in all cases 
DID bring service to people who previously didn't have service.  So it's 
not as though the program was entirely useless. I'm not aware of a 
circumstance where the operator didn't put in a a real effort to reach 
the unserved households they were supposed to reach.  So I'm not 
accusing anyone of fraud and I'm not saying rural broadband funding is 
inherently bad.  You will also never, ever, read a story about someone 
who got broadband funding to build cable on a road and actually built 
cable on that road because that's just not an interesting thing to disect.


I guess I'm just saying sometimes there are dumb people, and sometimes 
they end up in a position where there are consequences to what they do.  
I think if we're already primed to assume fraud and corruption then we 
look at suboptimal outcomes and assume there's fraud and corruption there.


"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."


On 3/5/2021 1:11 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Well, no, if somebody is saying he can do 100 down AND UP with CBRS 
LTE, he's just plain lying (or an idiot), even if it is only 1 cpe... 
and it's in the same room as the eNB.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 11:51 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


I've seen physical audits to confirm that when we submitted for
reimbursement for 100 base stations that we actually deployed 100
base stations.  There are financial audits of course, and they'll
harp on any perceived irregularity until they're satisfied. 
Sometimes the physical auditor wants to see some examples of
deployed CPE.

In NY Connect and NY Broadband, the project plans had to be
reviewed by an outside engineering firm chosen by NY State.  That
firm was supposed to assess the technical feasibility of the
project.  For wireless coverage we had to tell the firm how we
projected coverage and they attempted to duplicate it and confirm
that it wasn't made up.  But if they were told "the system has
xxDb of gain and coverage is projected to -90RSSi because this
spec sheet here says the CPE will connect at -90" then that's what
they'll go by to verify that you projected it accurately.  If
anybody just drew a circle they would not have made it past the
feasibility study.

I never saw or heard of a "testing node" to verify coverage in the
field, but if they could raise it to the CPE height used in the
projection and measure down to the signal shown on the map, then
it would have been totally fine.

If you had a reasonable projection of coverage and a reasonable
projection of capacity then you'd pass feasibility study.  The
issue is I don't think anybody put the coverage and capacity side
by side and said "you can't connect -xx RSSI and ALSO sell yy
Mbps.  It's one or the other".

.see I think the difference is you're assuming there's graft
or corruption when the reality is that it's just an idiot operator
who's being managed by an idiot regulator.  The system will catch
the truly incompetent people, but if the operator is marginally
competent and also can talk a good game then he can get funded. 
It might help if he also plays golf with a senator, but that's not
strictly a requirement (nobody I was involved with did that level
of hobnobbing).  See most people on this list are here saying
"100Mbps disqualifies me as a WISP from getting this funding." 
But right now, there's some clown saying, "I can do 100Mbps with
my CBRS LTE." And he's RIGHT as long as he's careful about how
many subs per base station and what SNR's he's connecting, but
he'll be WRONG if he promises to do that for every census block
out in the woods.  In spite of being wrong, he can produce
documents from the vendor and empirical testing to "prove" he's
right.  He's only wrong when all the pieces come together.

-Adam


On 3/5/2021 12:21 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good
reason (probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any
reason to not have official testing nodes (I thought there were)
to verify. Wireless coverage can be propagated, and should be
more than a circle on a map. I didnt like it when this all began,
When we were providing our data to one of the mapping agents I
called for assistance, basically was told to lie(ish). list our
coverage of what we "could" cover within 7 days. and that was
very loose, we had tranzeos laying around and that was enough for
"could cover". Irritated me to be grey area honest

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a
grant until you've built something and then you get
reimbursed for it.  CAF gives you

Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

I should clarify that while real people provided inspiration for this 
statement I'm not actually referring to any specific person..  I'm just 
expressing that I believe there are people who will do this.



On 3/5/2021 1:15 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


I promise you this idiot is a real person and is already writing his 
next application for funding.


On 3/5/2021 1:11 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Well, no, if somebody is saying he can do 100 down AND UP with CBRS 
LTE, he's just plain lying (or an idiot), even if it is only 1 cpe... 
and it's in the same room as the eNB.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 11:51 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


I've seen physical audits to confirm that when we submitted for
reimbursement for 100 base stations that we actually deployed 100
base stations.  There are financial audits of course, and they'll
harp on any perceived irregularity until they're satisfied.
Sometimes the physical auditor wants to see some examples of
deployed CPE.

In NY Connect and NY Broadband, the project plans had to be
reviewed by an outside engineering firm chosen by NY State.  That
firm was supposed to assess the technical feasibility of the
project.  For wireless coverage we had to tell the firm how we
projected coverage and they attempted to duplicate it and confirm
that it wasn't made up.  But if they were told "the system has
xxDb of gain and coverage is projected to -90RSSi because this
spec sheet here says the CPE will connect at -90" then that's
what they'll go by to verify that you projected it accurately. 
If anybody just drew a circle they would not have made it past
the feasibility study.

I never saw or heard of a "testing node" to verify coverage in
the field, but if they could raise it to the CPE height used in
the projection and measure down to the signal shown on the map,
then it would have been totally fine.

If you had a reasonable projection of coverage and a reasonable
projection of capacity then you'd pass feasibility study.  The
issue is I don't think anybody put the coverage and capacity side
by side and said "you can't connect -xx RSSI and ALSO sell yy
Mbps.  It's one or the other".

.see I think the difference is you're assuming there's graft
or corruption when the reality is that it's just an idiot
operator who's being managed by an idiot regulator.  The system
will catch the truly incompetent people, but if the operator is
marginally competent and also can talk a good game then he can
get funded.  It might help if he also plays golf with a senator,
but that's not strictly a requirement (nobody I was involved with
did that level of hobnobbing).  See most people on this list are
here saying "100Mbps disqualifies me as a WISP from getting this
funding." But right now, there's some clown saying, "I can do
100Mbps with my CBRS LTE."   And he's RIGHT as long as he's
careful about how many subs per base station and what SNR's he's
connecting, but he'll be WRONG if he promises to do that for
every census block out in the woods.  In spite of being wrong, he
can produce documents from the vendor and empirical testing to
"prove" he's right.  He's only wrong when all the pieces come
together.

-Adam


On 3/5/2021 12:21 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good
reason (probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any
reason to not have official testing nodes (I thought there were)
to verify. Wireless coverage can be propagated, and should be
more than a circle on a map. I didnt like it when this all
began, When we were providing our data to one of the mapping
agents I called for assistance, basically was told to lie(ish).
list our coverage of what we "could" cover within 7 days. and
that was very loose, we had tranzeos laying around and that was
enough for "could cover". Irritated me to be grey area honest

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a
grant until you've built something and then you get
reimbursed for it.  CAF gives you monthly distributions and
does not cover any up front capital at all.  I haven't seen
every program, but the ones I have seen all required you to
spend your own money first and then get reimbursed after.

But think about why does that even matter?  The two sources
of data they have are both unreliable:

1. Reports from the end user who's ignorant.

2. Reports from the operator who might also be ignorant (or
liar).

They'll have what % of users are bitching at us, and how
good are the excuses from the operator.  Whether you
distribute the funding before or after

Re: [AFMUG] Powering 450M 5ghz


clever gadget

On 3/5/21 7:58 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

You can use these things:

https://tyconsystems.com/products/tycon-power/poe-splitters/poe-simple-splitters-injectors/item/243-poe-powertap 



We use them on ePMP 3K so we can use direct DC.

No SFP on AF is annoying, too.

Josh

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:44 AM Nate Burke > wrote:


Radio Designers just don't understand alot of things.  I got into
an argument with one of my guys.  He was saying "It's a $6k radio,
of course it has a DC Input"  Finally had to find a picture of the
radio showing the ports and he was just shaking his head.

Same thing with no SFP on Airfiber radios, or the single UBolt
adjustment on F300.  The Designers have never been in the field to
have to think about how these products are actually used.


On 3/5/2021 9:28 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

It's *so* stupid these don't accept direct DC.

I think it's just standard, but you may want someone else to back
me up.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:23 AM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com>> wrote:

It looks like the 450M 5ghz can only be powered with POE.  Is
it just
standard GIGe POE pinout?  Can I use a McCown GIGE-POE-APC? 
My Var is
quoting me the $300 AC/DC POE Injector (plus power cord) and
that seems
like overkill.  It will be on about 360' of Cat5, but I will
have Fiber
for the data connection, and UGPS for sync.

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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

I promise you this idiot is a real person and is already writing his 
next application for funding.


On 3/5/2021 1:11 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Well, no, if somebody is saying he can do 100 down AND UP with CBRS 
LTE, he's just plain lying (or an idiot), even if it is only 1 cpe... 
and it's in the same room as the eNB.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 11:51 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


I've seen physical audits to confirm that when we submitted for
reimbursement for 100 base stations that we actually deployed 100
base stations.  There are financial audits of course, and they'll
harp on any perceived irregularity until they're satisfied. 
Sometimes the physical auditor wants to see some examples of
deployed CPE.

In NY Connect and NY Broadband, the project plans had to be
reviewed by an outside engineering firm chosen by NY State.  That
firm was supposed to assess the technical feasibility of the
project.  For wireless coverage we had to tell the firm how we
projected coverage and they attempted to duplicate it and confirm
that it wasn't made up.  But if they were told "the system has
xxDb of gain and coverage is projected to -90RSSi because this
spec sheet here says the CPE will connect at -90" then that's what
they'll go by to verify that you projected it accurately.  If
anybody just drew a circle they would not have made it past the
feasibility study.

I never saw or heard of a "testing node" to verify coverage in the
field, but if they could raise it to the CPE height used in the
projection and measure down to the signal shown on the map, then
it would have been totally fine.

If you had a reasonable projection of coverage and a reasonable
projection of capacity then you'd pass feasibility study.  The
issue is I don't think anybody put the coverage and capacity side
by side and said "you can't connect -xx RSSI and ALSO sell yy
Mbps.  It's one or the other".

.see I think the difference is you're assuming there's graft
or corruption when the reality is that it's just an idiot operator
who's being managed by an idiot regulator.  The system will catch
the truly incompetent people, but if the operator is marginally
competent and also can talk a good game then he can get funded. 
It might help if he also plays golf with a senator, but that's not
strictly a requirement (nobody I was involved with did that level
of hobnobbing).  See most people on this list are here saying
"100Mbps disqualifies me as a WISP from getting this funding." 
But right now, there's some clown saying, "I can do 100Mbps with
my CBRS LTE." And he's RIGHT as long as he's careful about how
many subs per base station and what SNR's he's connecting, but
he'll be WRONG if he promises to do that for every census block
out in the woods.  In spite of being wrong, he can produce
documents from the vendor and empirical testing to "prove" he's
right.  He's only wrong when all the pieces come together.

-Adam


On 3/5/2021 12:21 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good
reason (probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any
reason to not have official testing nodes (I thought there were)
to verify. Wireless coverage can be propagated, and should be
more than a circle on a map. I didnt like it when this all began,
When we were providing our data to one of the mapping agents I
called for assistance, basically was told to lie(ish). list our
coverage of what we "could" cover within 7 days. and that was
very loose, we had tranzeos laying around and that was enough for
"could cover". Irritated me to be grey area honest

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a
grant until you've built something and then you get
reimbursed for it.  CAF gives you monthly distributions and
does not cover any up front capital at all.  I haven't seen
every program, but the ones I have seen all required you to
spend your own money first and then get reimbursed after.

But think about why does that even matter?  The two sources
of data they have are both unreliable:

1. Reports from the end user who's ignorant.

2. Reports from the operator who might also be ignorant (or
liar).

They'll have what % of users are bitching at us, and how good
are the excuses from the operator. Whether you distribute the
funding before or after construction won't change that. 
Distributing afterwards means you can't take the money, buy a
ferrari, and drive to Mexico.

BesidesLOT's of people build shit networks with their own
money.


On 3/5/2021 11:53 AM,

Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

2021-03-05 Thread Josh Luthman

I don't know anything about 50 micron/u of gold or anything, but we clearly
see a quality difference between the brands discussed in this thread.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 1:02 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We have been using the connectors from TJ and they are working well.   The
> connectors we used in the past were the Platinum Tools ones and were pretty
> expensive.   TJ’s work just as well or better and are better priced.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 11:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers
>
>
>
> Most all of them are gold plated to some degree, the highest is generally
> 50 micron/u of gold and some of the lowest is 3 micron or none.  The
> connectors we have made are 50u, pass thru, shielded with the ground lug.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Anyone that wants a sample just send me a name and address.
>
>
>
> TJ
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:24 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come from the same
> factory, we buy them from the factory direct in bulk. If you can buy 1,000
> pcs or more and want to save a bit hit me off  the list.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
> This one?
>
>
>
> https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Tried to find that this morning to put in our wiki, actually.  I got it
> from Streakwave.  My guy is out of the office today, though.  And the
> website is broken if you search crimper.
>
>
>
> If you need it right away just call someone at Streakwave and ask for
> crimpers.  If there are multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks has
> been buying.  The new ones are blue.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Josh,
>
>
>
> Any chance you could send the info on the tool you are using with them?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 1:19 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> 100% Shireen smartfeed connectors.  I think they made the tool, too.  It
> nearly eliminated our rj45/cat5 problems.  At least 99% resolved I'd say.
>
>
> We tried Arc/Ubnt/Netonix in the past.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:06 PM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
> We currently use 2061 dies in regular crimp frames.  Debating buying new
> dies vs moving to something else.  Looking for something as tech-proof as
> possible that doesn't rely on them knowing how much to squeeze.  Any
> favorites out there?  Any favorites on Shielded RJ45s?  We currently use
> the Netonix ones.
>
>
>
> We have been seeing a lot more ethernet cabling issues as of late.  Trying
> to figure out why that is and prevent it.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

2021-03-05 Thread Mathew Howard

Well, no, if somebody is saying he can do 100 down AND UP with CBRS LTE,
he's just plain lying (or an idiot), even if it is only 1 cpe... and it's
in the same room as the eNB.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 11:51 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I've seen physical audits to confirm that when we submitted for
> reimbursement for 100 base stations that we actually deployed 100 base
> stations.  There are financial audits of course, and they'll harp on any
> perceived irregularity until they're satisfied.  Sometimes the physical
> auditor wants to see some examples of deployed CPE.
>
> In NY Connect and NY Broadband, the project plans had to be reviewed by an
> outside engineering firm chosen by NY State.  That firm was supposed to
> assess the technical feasibility of the project.  For wireless coverage we
> had to tell the firm how we projected coverage and they attempted to
> duplicate it and confirm that it wasn't made up.  But if they were told
> "the system has xxDb of gain and coverage is projected to -90RSSi because
> this spec sheet here says the CPE will connect at -90" then that's what
> they'll go by to verify that you projected it accurately.  If anybody just
> drew a circle they would not have made it past the feasibility study.
>
> I never saw or heard of a "testing node" to verify coverage in the field,
> but if they could raise it to the CPE height used in the projection and
> measure down to the signal shown on the map, then it would have been
> totally fine.
>
> If you had a reasonable projection of coverage and a reasonable projection
> of capacity then you'd pass feasibility study.  The issue is I don't think
> anybody put the coverage and capacity side by side and said "you can't
> connect -xx RSSI and ALSO sell yy Mbps.  It's one or the other".
>
> .see I think the difference is you're assuming there's graft or
> corruption when the reality is that it's just an idiot operator who's being
> managed by an idiot regulator.  The system will catch the truly incompetent
> people, but if the operator is marginally competent and also can talk a
> good game then he can get funded.  It might help if he also plays golf with
> a senator, but that's not strictly a requirement (nobody I was involved
> with did that level of hobnobbing).  See most people on this list are here
> saying "100Mbps disqualifies me as a WISP from getting this funding."  But
> right now, there's some clown saying, "I can do 100Mbps with my CBRS
> LTE."   And he's RIGHT as long as he's careful about how many subs per base
> station and what SNR's he's connecting, but he'll be WRONG if he promises
> to do that for every census block out in the woods.  In spite of being
> wrong, he can produce documents from the vendor and empirical testing to
> "prove" he's right.  He's only wrong when all the pieces come together.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 3/5/2021 12:21 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good reason
> (probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any reason to not have
> official testing nodes (I thought there were) to verify. Wireless coverage
> can be propagated, and should be more than a circle on a map. I didnt like
> it when this all began, When we were providing our data to one of the
> mapping agents I called for assistance, basically was told to lie(ish).
> list our coverage of what we "could" cover within 7 days. and that was very
> loose, we had tranzeos laying around and that was enough for "could cover".
> Irritated me to be grey area honest
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a grant until
>> you've built something and then you get reimbursed for it.  CAF gives you
>> monthly distributions and does not cover any up front capital at all.  I
>> haven't seen every program, but the ones I have seen all required you to
>> spend your own money first and then get reimbursed after.
>>
>> But think about why does that even matter?  The two sources of data they
>> have are both unreliable:
>>
>> 1. Reports from the end user who's ignorant.
>>
>> 2. Reports from the operator who might also be ignorant (or liar).
>>
>> They'll have what % of users are bitching at us, and how good are the
>> excuses from the operator.  Whether you distribute the funding before or
>> after construction won't change that.  Distributing afterwards means you
>> can't take the money, buy a ferrari, and drive to Mexico.
>>
>> BesidesLOT's of people build shit networks with their own money.
>>
>>
>> On 3/5/2021 11:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> this is why i wish they would go to recovery awards. you get your money
>> AFTER you serve the area and verify. A whole lot less grift when playing
>> with your own money. Ill get shot here, but I think no funding for anything
>> other than a hardline solution like fiber should be available anywhere
>> within X miles of any town of population.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:39 AM

Re: [AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

I don't think you would want to just modify the database.  You could add
support for it in code, though.  Your best bet is to look at the code in
GitHub (even pull requests for adding new features, etc) and trying to
mimic what has already been done.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:16 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
> I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this, but its not
> clear how easy it is to keep it working through migrations/rebuilds of
> librenms, etc
>
> An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview
> is 1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement date for APC
> UPS. custom OID doesnt work because its a date, not a counter or guage
>
> the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all instructions I see
> indicate I need to add a column to the database. Im just now learning SQL,
> and given some time id [probably be comfortable, but right now I just see
> me breaking it. the other code isnt something im familiar with.
>
> Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to collect or graph
> that Im not seeing or comprehending?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

i think we have different degrees of grift. that 100mbps operator is grift
to me. the idiot operator/regulator is grift to me. the senator thing,
thats just good business practice

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:51 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I've seen physical audits to confirm that when we submitted for
> reimbursement for 100 base stations that we actually deployed 100 base
> stations.  There are financial audits of course, and they'll harp on any
> perceived irregularity until they're satisfied.  Sometimes the physical
> auditor wants to see some examples of deployed CPE.
>
> In NY Connect and NY Broadband, the project plans had to be reviewed by an
> outside engineering firm chosen by NY State.  That firm was supposed to
> assess the technical feasibility of the project.  For wireless coverage we
> had to tell the firm how we projected coverage and they attempted to
> duplicate it and confirm that it wasn't made up.  But if they were told
> "the system has xxDb of gain and coverage is projected to -90RSSi because
> this spec sheet here says the CPE will connect at -90" then that's what
> they'll go by to verify that you projected it accurately.  If anybody just
> drew a circle they would not have made it past the feasibility study.
>
> I never saw or heard of a "testing node" to verify coverage in the field,
> but if they could raise it to the CPE height used in the projection and
> measure down to the signal shown on the map, then it would have been
> totally fine.
>
> If you had a reasonable projection of coverage and a reasonable projection
> of capacity then you'd pass feasibility study.  The issue is I don't think
> anybody put the coverage and capacity side by side and said "you can't
> connect -xx RSSI and ALSO sell yy Mbps.  It's one or the other".
>
> .see I think the difference is you're assuming there's graft or
> corruption when the reality is that it's just an idiot operator who's being
> managed by an idiot regulator.  The system will catch the truly incompetent
> people, but if the operator is marginally competent and also can talk a
> good game then he can get funded.  It might help if he also plays golf with
> a senator, but that's not strictly a requirement (nobody I was involved
> with did that level of hobnobbing).  See most people on this list are here
> saying "100Mbps disqualifies me as a WISP from getting this funding."  But
> right now, there's some clown saying, "I can do 100Mbps with my CBRS
> LTE."   And he's RIGHT as long as he's careful about how many subs per base
> station and what SNR's he's connecting, but he'll be WRONG if he promises
> to do that for every census block out in the woods.  In spite of being
> wrong, he can produce documents from the vendor and empirical testing to
> "prove" he's right.  He's only wrong when all the pieces come together.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 3/5/2021 12:21 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good reason
> (probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any reason to not have
> official testing nodes (I thought there were) to verify. Wireless coverage
> can be propagated, and should be more than a circle on a map. I didnt like
> it when this all began, When we were providing our data to one of the
> mapping agents I called for assistance, basically was told to lie(ish).
> list our coverage of what we "could" cover within 7 days. and that was very
> loose, we had tranzeos laying around and that was enough for "could cover".
> Irritated me to be grey area honest
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a grant until
>> you've built something and then you get reimbursed for it.  CAF gives you
>> monthly distributions and does not cover any up front capital at all.  I
>> haven't seen every program, but the ones I have seen all required you to
>> spend your own money first and then get reimbursed after.
>>
>> But think about why does that even matter?  The two sources of data they
>> have are both unreliable:
>>
>> 1. Reports from the end user who's ignorant.
>>
>> 2. Reports from the operator who might also be ignorant (or liar).
>>
>> They'll have what % of users are bitching at us, and how good are the
>> excuses from the operator.  Whether you distribute the funding before or
>> after construction won't change that.  Distributing afterwards means you
>> can't take the money, buy a ferrari, and drive to Mexico.
>>
>> BesidesLOT's of people build shit networks with their own money.
>>
>>
>> On 3/5/2021 11:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> this is why i wish they would go to recovery awards. you get your money
>> AFTER you serve the area and verify. A whole lot less grift when playing
>> with your own money. Ill get shot here, but I think no funding for anything
>> other than a hardline solution like fiber should be available anywhere
>> within X miles of any town of population.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:39

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

i hate winter radishes, they are designed to remind you its cold as fuck
out and the gardens dead

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:53 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> You guys are so missing this..
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:11 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> just make sur eyour shirt is tucked in
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Will I get a chance to be visited by Borat’s daughter first?
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 10:00 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor
>>>
>>> you wanna get sued for 1.5 billion? thats how you get sued for 1.5
>>> billion
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Done.  But I don’t trust the outcome as it appears Dominion is counting
 the votes...

 *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
 *Sent:* Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:01 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: Favor

 So every year we have this “Best of Southern Utah” campaign. Trying to
 swing some more votes in our favor for our regional “Best ISP” and a couple
 of other categories.

 Anybody want to do us a solid and take 10 seconds and vote for us? :).
 Nobody wants the telco or cableco to win, right?

 https://www.bestofsouthernutah.com/v/infowest/

 All ya gotta do is click “Select All” and “Submit Vote”.  You can vote
 daily from each browser or device.

 Please and Thank You!

 -c
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 AF@af.afmug.com
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 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
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>>> --
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>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

We have been using the connectors from TJ and they are working well.   The 
connectors we used in the past were the Platinum Tools ones and were pretty 
expensive.   TJ’s work just as well or better and are better priced.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 11:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

Most all of them are gold plated to some degree, the highest is generally 50 
micron/u of gold and some of the lowest is 3 micron or none.  The connectors we 
have made are 50u, pass thru, shielded with the ground lug.

 Anyone that wants a sample just send me a name and address.

TJ

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:24 AM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout 
mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> wrote:
Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come from the same factory, 
we buy them from the factory direct in bulk. If you can buy 1,000 pcs or more 
and want to save a bit hit me off  the list.

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
This one?

https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Tried to find that this morning to put in our wiki, actually.  I got it from 
Streakwave.  My guy is out of the office today, though.  And the website is 
broken if you search crimper.

If you need it right away just call someone at Streakwave and ask for crimpers. 
 If there are multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks has been buying.  The 
new ones are blue.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
Thanks Josh,

Any chance you could send the info on the tool you are using with them?

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 1:19 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
100% Shireen smartfeed connectors.  I think they made the tool, too.  It nearly 
eliminated our rj45/cat5 problems.  At least 99% resolved I'd say.

We tried Arc/Ubnt/Netonix in the past.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:06 PM Carl Peterson 
mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
We currently use 2061 dies in regular crimp frames.  Debating buying new dies 
vs moving to something else.  Looking for something as tech-proof as possible 
that doesn't rely on them knowing how much to squeeze.  Any favorites out 
there?  Any favorites on Shielded RJ45s?  We currently use the Netonix ones.

We have been seeing a lot more ethernet cabling issues as of late.  Trying to 
figure out why that is and prevent it.

--

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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AF@af.afmug.com
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--

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

I've seen physical audits to confirm that when we submitted for 
reimbursement for 100 base stations that we actually deployed 100 base 
stations.  There are financial audits of course, and they'll harp on any 
perceived irregularity until they're satisfied. Sometimes the physical 
auditor wants to see some examples of deployed CPE.


In NY Connect and NY Broadband, the project plans had to be reviewed by 
an outside engineering firm chosen by NY State.  That firm was supposed 
to assess the technical feasibility of the project.  For wireless 
coverage we had to tell the firm how we projected coverage and they 
attempted to duplicate it and confirm that it wasn't made up.  But if 
they were told "the system has xxDb of gain and coverage is projected to 
-90RSSi because this spec sheet here says the CPE will connect at -90" 
then that's what they'll go by to verify that you projected it 
accurately.  If anybody just drew a circle they would not have made it 
past the feasibility study.


I never saw or heard of a "testing node" to verify coverage in the 
field, but if they could raise it to the CPE height used in the 
projection and measure down to the signal shown on the map, then it 
would have been totally fine.


If you had a reasonable projection of coverage and a reasonable 
projection of capacity then you'd pass feasibility study.  The issue is 
I don't think anybody put the coverage and capacity side by side and 
said "you can't connect -xx RSSI and ALSO sell yy Mbps.  It's one or the 
other".


.see I think the difference is you're assuming there's graft or 
corruption when the reality is that it's just an idiot operator who's 
being managed by an idiot regulator.  The system will catch the truly 
incompetent people, but if the operator is marginally competent and also 
can talk a good game then he can get funded. It might help if he also 
plays golf with a senator, but that's not strictly a requirement (nobody 
I was involved with did that level of hobnobbing).  See most people on 
this list are here saying "100Mbps disqualifies me as a WISP from 
getting this funding." But right now, there's some clown saying, "I can 
do 100Mbps with my CBRS LTE."   And he's RIGHT as long as he's careful 
about how many subs per base station and what SNR's he's connecting, but 
he'll be WRONG if he promises to do that for every census block out in 
the woods.  In spite of being wrong, he can produce documents from the 
vendor and empirical testing to "prove" he's right.  He's only wrong 
when all the pieces come together.


-Adam


On 3/5/2021 12:21 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good reason 
(probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any reason to not 
have official testing nodes (I thought there were) to verify. Wireless 
coverage can be propagated, and should be more than a circle on a map. 
I didnt like it when this all began, When we were providing our data 
to one of the mapping agents I called for assistance, basically was 
told to lie(ish). list our coverage of what we "could" cover within 7 
days. and that was very loose, we had tranzeos laying around and that 
was enough for "could cover". Irritated me to be grey area honest


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a grant
until you've built something and then you get reimbursed for it. 
CAF gives you monthly distributions and does not cover any up
front capital at all.  I haven't seen every program, but the ones
I have seen all required you to spend your own money first and
then get reimbursed after.

But think about why does that even matter?  The two sources of
data they have are both unreliable:

1. Reports from the end user who's ignorant.

2. Reports from the operator who might also be ignorant (or liar).

They'll have what % of users are bitching at us, and how good are
the excuses from the operator.  Whether you distribute the funding
before or after construction won't change that.  Distributing
afterwards means you can't take the money, buy a ferrari, and
drive to Mexico.

BesidesLOT's of people build shit networks with their own money.


On 3/5/2021 11:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

this is why i wish they would go to recovery awards. you get your
money AFTER you serve the area and verify. A whole lot less grift
when playing with your own money. Ill get shot here, but I think
no funding for anything other than a hardline solution like fiber
should be available anywhere within X miles of any town of
population.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:39 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There's too much emphasis on Mbps, but my guess is the
political decision makers observe that cable and fiber
companies selling 100M+ generate fewer complaints from

Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

2021-03-05 Thread TJ Trout

Most all of them are gold plated to some degree, the highest is generally
50 micron/u of gold and some of the lowest is 3 micron or none.  The
connectors we have made are 50u, pass thru, shielded with the ground lug.


 Anyone that wants a sample just send me a name and address.

TJ


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 8:24 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come from the same
>> factory, we buy them from the factory direct in bulk. If you can buy 1,000
>> pcs or more and want to save a bit hit me off  the list.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 This one?

 https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12

 On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> Tried to find that this morning to put in our wiki, actually.  I got
> it from Streakwave.  My guy is out of the office today, though.  And the
> website is broken if you search crimper.
>
> If you need it right away just call someone at Streakwave and ask for
> crimpers.  If there are multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks has
> been buying.  The new ones are blue.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson <
> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Josh,
>>
>> Any chance you could send the info on the tool you are using with
>> them?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 1:19 PM Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 100% Shireen smartfeed connectors.  I think they made the tool,
>>> too.  It nearly eliminated our rj45/cat5 problems.  At least 99% 
>>> resolved
>>> I'd say.
>>>
>>> We tried Arc/Ubnt/Netonix in the past.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:06 PM Carl Peterson <
>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
 We currently use 2061 dies in regular crimp frames.  Debating
 buying new dies vs moving to something else.  Looking for something as
 tech-proof as possible that doesn't rely on them knowing how much to
 squeeze.  Any favorites out there?  Any favorites on Shielded RJ45s?  
 We
 currently use the Netonix ones.

 We have been seeing a lot more ethernet cabling issues as of late.
 Trying to figure out why that is and prevent it.


 --

 Carl Peterson

 *PORT NETWORKS*

 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

 Baltimore, MD 21202

 (410) 637-3707
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Peterson
>>
>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>
>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>
>> (410) 637-3707
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


 --

 Carl Peterson

 *PORT NETWORKS*

 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

 Baltimore, MD 21202

 (410) 637-3707
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
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>>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

I see traffic counters set up on random rural roads for no good reason
(probably is a good reason) all over. There isnt any reason to not have
official testing nodes (I thought there were) to verify. Wireless coverage
can be propagated, and should be more than a circle on a map. I didnt like
it when this all began, When we were providing our data to one of the
mapping agents I called for assistance, basically was told to lie(ish).
list our coverage of what we "could" cover within 7 days. and that was very
loose, we had tranzeos laying around and that was enough for "could cover".
Irritated me to be grey area honest

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a grant until
> you've built something and then you get reimbursed for it.  CAF gives you
> monthly distributions and does not cover any up front capital at all.  I
> haven't seen every program, but the ones I have seen all required you to
> spend your own money first and then get reimbursed after.
>
> But think about why does that even matter?  The two sources of data they
> have are both unreliable:
>
> 1. Reports from the end user who's ignorant.
>
> 2. Reports from the operator who might also be ignorant (or liar).
>
> They'll have what % of users are bitching at us, and how good are the
> excuses from the operator.  Whether you distribute the funding before or
> after construction won't change that.  Distributing afterwards means you
> can't take the money, buy a ferrari, and drive to Mexico.
>
> BesidesLOT's of people build shit networks with their own money.
>
>
> On 3/5/2021 11:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> this is why i wish they would go to recovery awards. you get your money
> AFTER you serve the area and verify. A whole lot less grift when playing
> with your own money. Ill get shot here, but I think no funding for anything
> other than a hardline solution like fiber should be available anywhere
> within X miles of any town of population.
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:39 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> There's too much emphasis on Mbps, but my guess is the political decision
>> makers observe that cable and fiber companies selling 100M+ generate fewer
>> complaints from constituents than wireless operators offering 25Mbps.
>>
>> 
>>
>> I'm not going to name any names, but I've seen a few grant funded
>> wireless networks who qualified for funding by "offering" 25mbps that they
>> couldn't actually deliver consistently.  You can do 25Mbps if load isn't
>> too high, SNR is good enough, not too many inefficient low mod stations,
>> etc.  If the design is built with maximal capacity in mind, then you can do
>> 25Mbps for sure, but to qualify for funding they typically have to hit
>> every household in a geographic area so they focus too heavily on coverage
>> rather than capacity.  They'll get projections showing coverage down to a
>> -80 RSSI when really they couldn't deliver that 25Mbps consistently unless
>> everybody was getting -65 or better.  (I saw one using -90 for projecting
>> coverage in a grant application, and ALSO using excessively generous system
>> gains in their link budget based on recommendations from some fool doing
>> tech support at the VAR.)
>>
>> There's reasoning motivated by the requirements of the funding.  They're
>> told they HAVE to offer 25mbps AND they HAVE to cover 100% of the people in
>> a given area, and they end up stretching to try to make both things true
>> when they really can't ever both be true at the same time.  They'll never
>> admit it. They've made it true in their own minds so they can talk to the
>> regulators about it and feel that they aren't lying.  End result is a
>> funded network with poor performance and constituents bitching at somebody
>> about it.  The politician getting bitched at doesn't understand the root
>> cause and couldn't prequalify applicants on any other criteria so they just
>> increase the required Mbps.
>>
>> I think usually these guys aren't really liars, they're just ignorant.
>> They listen to a vendor telling them a product can deliver eleventy
>> thousand Mbps without understanding the qualifying conditions.  They'll
>> test with one or two CPE with perfect signal to "prove" that it's true.  I
>> think they're honestly surprised when they call me in to troubleshoot and I
>> have to tell them that there's not much wrong with their network and it
>> just can't do what they're trying to do.  There's really nothing to fix
>> except go to each CPE location and try to make them all 30 SNR.
>>
>> If you have to qualify for a grant by offering 100Mbps to EVERY household
>> in EVERY eligible census block in an entire town, then you are going to
>> have to do it with fiber or coax.  There will still be people trying it
>> with wireless, but they'll only be the most egregious liars and fools.
>> Eventually the government agencies will stop being technology agnostic and
>> just say "no fixed wireless".
>>
>>

[AFMUG] librenms adding overview fields

One of you geeks probably messes a lot in this tool.
I see in their forums some advice on doing things like this, but its not
clear how easy it is to keep it working through migrations/rebuilds of
librenms, etc

An example Id like to have viewable on the ob=verview
is 1.3.6.1.4.1.318.1.1.1.2.1.3.0 thats is battery replacement date for APC
UPS. custom OID doesnt work because its a date, not a counter or guage

the ideal spot would be on the Overview tab. but all instructions I see
indicate I need to add a column to the database. Im just now learning SQL,
and given some time id [probably be comfortable, but right now I just see
me breaking it. the other code isnt something im familiar with.

Is there an easy mechanism for adding fields you want to collect or graph
that Im not seeing or comprehending?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

just make sur eyour shirt is tucked in

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:03 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Will I get a chance to be visited by Borat’s daughter first?
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, March 5, 2021 10:00 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor
>
> you wanna get sued for 1.5 billion? thats how you get sued for 1.5 billion
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Done.  But I don’t trust the outcome as it appears Dominion is counting
>> the votes...
>>
>> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:01 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: Favor
>>
>> So every year we have this “Best of Southern Utah” campaign. Trying to
>> swing some more votes in our favor for our regional “Best ISP” and a couple
>> of other categories.
>>
>> Anybody want to do us a solid and take 10 seconds and vote for us? :).
>> Nobody wants the telco or cableco to win, right?
>>
>> https://www.bestofsouthernutah.com/v/infowest/
>>
>> All ya gotta do is click “Select All” and “Submit Vote”.  You can vote
>> daily from each browser or device.
>>
>> Please and Thank You!
>>
>> -c
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

2021-03-05 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Will I get a chance to be visited by Borat’s daughter first?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 10:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

you wanna get sued for 1.5 billion? thats how you get sued for 1.5 billion

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Done.  But I don’t trust the outcome as it appears Dominion is counting the 
votes...

  From: Cassidy B. Larson 
  Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:01 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

  So every year we have this “Best of Southern Utah” campaign. Trying to swing 
some more votes in our favor for our regional “Best ISP” and a couple of other 
categories.  

  Anybody want to do us a solid and take 10 seconds and vote for us? :). Nobody 
wants the telco or cableco to win, right?

  https://www.bestofsouthernutah.com/v/infowest/

  All ya gotta do is click “Select All” and “Submit Vote”.  You can vote daily 
from each browser or device. 

  Please and Thank You!

  -c

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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

A lot of them already work that way.  In NY you don't get a grant until 
you've built something and then you get reimbursed for it. CAF gives you 
monthly distributions and does not cover any up front capital at all.  I 
haven't seen every program, but the ones I have seen all required you to 
spend your own money first and then get reimbursed after.


But think about why does that even matter?  The two sources of data they 
have are both unreliable:


1. Reports from the end user who's ignorant.

2. Reports from the operator who might also be ignorant (or liar).

They'll have what % of users are bitching at us, and how good are the 
excuses from the operator.  Whether you distribute the funding before or 
after construction won't change that.  Distributing afterwards means you 
can't take the money, buy a ferrari, and drive to Mexico.


BesidesLOT's of people build shit networks with their own money.


On 3/5/2021 11:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
this is why i wish they would go to recovery awards. you get your 
money AFTER you serve the area and verify. A whole lot less grift when 
playing with your own money. Ill get shot here, but I think no funding 
for anything other than a hardline solution like fiber should be 
available anywhere within X miles of any town of population.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:39 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


There's too much emphasis on Mbps, but my guess is the political
decision makers observe that cable and fiber companies selling
100M+ generate fewer complaints from constituents than wireless
operators offering 25Mbps.



I'm not going to name any names, but I've seen a few grant funded
wireless networks who qualified for funding by "offering" 25mbps
that they couldn't actually deliver consistently.  You can do
25Mbps if load isn't too high, SNR is good enough, not too many
inefficient low mod stations, etc.  If the design is built with
maximal capacity in mind, then you can do 25Mbps for sure, but to
qualify for funding they typically have to hit every household in
a geographic area so they focus too heavily on coverage rather
than capacity.  They'll get projections showing coverage down to a
-80 RSSI when really they couldn't deliver that 25Mbps
consistently unless everybody was getting -65 or better.  (I saw
one using -90 for projecting coverage in a grant application, and
ALSO using excessively generous system gains in their link budget
based on recommendations from some fool doing tech support at the
VAR.)

There's reasoning motivated by the requirements of the funding. 
They're told they HAVE to offer 25mbps AND they HAVE to cover 100%
of the people in a given area, and they end up stretching to try
to make both things true when they really can't ever both be true
at the same time. They'll never admit it. They've made it true in
their own minds so they can talk to the regulators about it and
feel that they aren't lying.  End result is a funded network with
poor performance and constituents bitching at somebody about it. 
The politician getting bitched at doesn't understand the root
cause and couldn't prequalify applicants on any other criteria so
they just increase the required Mbps.

I think usually these guys aren't really liars, they're just
ignorant.  They listen to a vendor telling them a product can
deliver eleventy thousand Mbps without understanding the
qualifying conditions.  They'll test with one or two CPE with
perfect signal to "prove" that it's true.  I think they're
honestly surprised when they call me in to troubleshoot and I have
to tell them that there's not much wrong with their network and it
just can't do what they're trying to do.  There's really nothing
to fix except go to each CPE location and try to make them all 30
SNR.

If you have to qualify for a grant by offering 100Mbps to EVERY
household in EVERY eligible census block in an entire town, then
you are going to have to do it with fiber or coax.  There will
still be people trying it with wireless, but they'll only be the
most egregious liars and fools.  Eventually the government
agencies will stop being technology agnostic and just say "no
fixed wireless".

I do know some things, but I don't actually know what
motivates this specific decisions. That part is
conjecture.




On 3/5/2021 10:20 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

You would think that since they bothered coming up with excuses
why the current standard isn't good enough, they could at least
come up with a number based on their imagined need, instead of
just coming up with a random number with no basis in anything
other than "100/100 sounds good".

It's not that hard... according to them, Zoom needs 3.8mbps
upload per 1080p stream (and obviously everybody in the house

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

you wanna get sued for 1.5 billion? thats how you get sued for 1.5 billion

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Done.  But I don’t trust the outcome as it appears Dominion is counting
> the votes...
>
> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:01 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: Favor
>
> So every year we have this “Best of Southern Utah” campaign. Trying to
> swing some more votes in our favor for our regional “Best ISP” and a couple
> of other categories.
>
> Anybody want to do us a solid and take 10 seconds and vote for us? :).
> Nobody wants the telco or cableco to win, right?
>
> https://www.bestofsouthernutah.com/v/infowest/
>
> All ya gotta do is click “Select All” and “Submit Vote”.  You can vote
> daily from each browser or device.
>
> Please and Thank You!
>
> -c
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

2021-03-05 Thread Chuck McCown via AF

Done.  But I don’t trust the outcome as it appears Dominion is counting the 
votes...

From: Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

So every year we have this “Best of Southern Utah” campaign. Trying to swing 
some more votes in our favor for our regional “Best ISP” and a couple of other 
categories.  

Anybody want to do us a solid and take 10 seconds and vote for us? :). Nobody 
wants the telco or cableco to win, right?

https://www.bestofsouthernutah.com/v/infowest/

All ya gotta do is click “Select All” and “Submit Vote”.  You can vote daily 
from each browser or device. 

Please and Thank You!

-c

-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

this is why i wish they would go to recovery awards. you get your money
AFTER you serve the area and verify. A whole lot less grift when playing
with your own money. Ill get shot here, but I think no funding for anything
other than a hardline solution like fiber should be available anywhere
within X miles of any town of population.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:39 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> There's too much emphasis on Mbps, but my guess is the political decision
> makers observe that cable and fiber companies selling 100M+ generate fewer
> complaints from constituents than wireless operators offering 25Mbps.
>
> 
>
> I'm not going to name any names, but I've seen a few grant funded wireless
> networks who qualified for funding by "offering" 25mbps that they couldn't
> actually deliver consistently.  You can do 25Mbps if load isn't too high,
> SNR is good enough, not too many inefficient low mod stations, etc.  If the
> design is built with maximal capacity in mind, then you can do 25Mbps for
> sure, but to qualify for funding they typically have to hit every household
> in a geographic area so they focus too heavily on coverage rather than
> capacity.  They'll get projections showing coverage down to a -80 RSSI when
> really they couldn't deliver that 25Mbps consistently unless everybody was
> getting -65 or better.  (I saw one using -90 for projecting coverage in a
> grant application, and ALSO using excessively generous system gains in
> their link budget based on recommendations from some fool doing tech
> support at the VAR.)
>
> There's reasoning motivated by the requirements of the funding.  They're
> told they HAVE to offer 25mbps AND they HAVE to cover 100% of the people in
> a given area, and they end up stretching to try to make both things true
> when they really can't ever both be true at the same time.  They'll never
> admit it. They've made it true in their own minds so they can talk to the
> regulators about it and feel that they aren't lying.  End result is a
> funded network with poor performance and constituents bitching at somebody
> about it.  The politician getting bitched at doesn't understand the root
> cause and couldn't prequalify applicants on any other criteria so they just
> increase the required Mbps.
>
> I think usually these guys aren't really liars, they're just ignorant.
> They listen to a vendor telling them a product can deliver eleventy
> thousand Mbps without understanding the qualifying conditions.  They'll
> test with one or two CPE with perfect signal to "prove" that it's true.  I
> think they're honestly surprised when they call me in to troubleshoot and I
> have to tell them that there's not much wrong with their network and it
> just can't do what they're trying to do.  There's really nothing to fix
> except go to each CPE location and try to make them all 30 SNR.
>
> If you have to qualify for a grant by offering 100Mbps to EVERY household
> in EVERY eligible census block in an entire town, then you are going to
> have to do it with fiber or coax.  There will still be people trying it
> with wireless, but they'll only be the most egregious liars and fools.
> Eventually the government agencies will stop being technology agnostic and
> just say "no fixed wireless".
>
> I do know some things, but I don't actually know what
> motivates this specific decisions.  That part is conjecture.
> 
>
>
>
> On 3/5/2021 10:20 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> You would think that since they bothered coming up with excuses why the
> current standard isn't good enough, they could at least come up with a
> number based on their imagined need, instead of just coming up with a
> random number with no basis in anything other than "100/100 sounds good".
>
> It's not that hard... according to them, Zoom needs 3.8mbps upload per
> 1080p stream (and obviously everybody in the house absolutely needs to be
> using 1080p), so lets say a lot of households are running 5 simultaneous
> Zoom sessions (which I'm guessing is actually fairly rare)... that's
> 19Mbps, so throw in some overhead and make it, say 25Mbps. That's
> realistically going to be way more upload bandwidth than the vast majority
> of people ever need, so why exactly do we need to make the standard four
> times that?
>
> I guess it's one way to only fund fiber, which probably isn't a terrible
> idea if we're going to insist on throwing tax payer money away on such
> projects.
>
> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:21 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> As long as they're tossing arbitrary numbers for need out there without
>> any fact based justification I think we should get carte blanche to do as
>> we please to make it happen. No need for ROW, we will take the O out of
>> OTARD and give it  a big fat RE. Dont want us running cable through
>> your living room to your neighbors house? Move. That 300 year old oak is in
>> the way? Federal money for husqvarna solutions. 1 watt per mhz? F that,
>> 1.12 gigawatt at the cpe. We will burn those

Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

There's too much emphasis on Mbps, but my guess is the political 
decision makers observe that cable and fiber companies selling 100M+ 
generate fewer complaints from constituents than wireless operators 
offering 25Mbps.




I'm not going to name any names, but I've seen a few grant funded 
wireless networks who qualified for funding by "offering" 25mbps that 
they couldn't actually deliver consistently.  You can do 25Mbps if load 
isn't too high, SNR is good enough, not too many inefficient low mod 
stations, etc.  If the design is built with maximal capacity in mind, 
then you can do 25Mbps for sure, but to qualify for funding they 
typically have to hit every household in a geographic area so they focus 
too heavily on coverage rather than capacity.  They'll get projections 
showing coverage down to a -80 RSSI when really they couldn't deliver 
that 25Mbps consistently unless everybody was getting -65 or better.  (I 
saw one using -90 for projecting coverage in a grant application, and 
ALSO using excessively generous system gains in their link budget based 
on recommendations from some fool doing tech support at the VAR.)


There's reasoning motivated by the requirements of the funding. They're 
told they HAVE to offer 25mbps AND they HAVE to cover 100% of the people 
in a given area, and they end up stretching to try to make both things 
true when they really can't ever both be true at the same time.  They'll 
never admit it. They've made it true in their own minds so they can talk 
to the regulators about it and feel that they aren't lying.  End result 
is a funded network with poor performance and constituents bitching at 
somebody about it. The politician getting bitched at doesn't understand 
the root cause and couldn't prequalify applicants on any other criteria 
so they just increase the required Mbps.


I think usually these guys aren't really liars, they're just ignorant.  
They listen to a vendor telling them a product can deliver eleventy 
thousand Mbps without understanding the qualifying conditions.  They'll 
test with one or two CPE with perfect signal to "prove" that it's true.  
I think they're honestly surprised when they call me in to troubleshoot 
and I have to tell them that there's not much wrong with their network 
and it just can't do what they're trying to do.  There's really nothing 
to fix except go to each CPE location and try to make them all 30 SNR.


If you have to qualify for a grant by offering 100Mbps to EVERY 
household in EVERY eligible census block in an entire town, then you are 
going to have to do it with fiber or coax.  There will still be people 
trying it with wireless, but they'll only be the most egregious liars 
and fools.  Eventually the government agencies will stop being 
technology agnostic and just say "no fixed wireless".


I do know some things, but I don't actually know what 
motivates this specific decisions.  That part is conjecture.





On 3/5/2021 10:20 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
You would think that since they bothered coming up with excuses why 
the current standard isn't good enough, they could at least come up 
with a number based on their imagined need, instead of just coming up 
with a random number with no basis in anything other than "100/100 
sounds good".


It's not that hard... according to them, Zoom needs 3.8mbps upload per 
1080p stream (and obviously everybody in the house absolutely needs to 
be using 1080p), so lets say a lot of households are running 5 
simultaneous Zoom sessions (which I'm guessing is actually fairly 
rare)... that's 19Mbps, so throw in some overhead and make it, say 
25Mbps. That's realistically going to be way more upload bandwidth 
than the vast majority of people ever need, so why exactly do we need 
to make the standard four times that?


I guess it's one way to only fund fiber, which probably isn't a 
terrible idea if we're going to insist on throwing tax payer money 
away on such projects.


On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:21 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


As long as they're tossing arbitrary numbers for need out there
without any fact based justification I think we should get carte
blanche to do as we please to make it happen. No need for ROW, we
will take the O out of OTARD and give it  a big fat RE. Dont
want us running cable through your living room to your neighbors
house? Move. That 300 year old oak is in the way? Federal money
for husqvarna solutions. 1 watt per mhz? F that, 1.12 gigawatt at
the cpe. We will burn those obstructions out of the way, make it
disappear like micheal j fox in a Polaroid.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 9:29 PM Ryan Ray mailto:ryan...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Just create another CBRS database and let's get a huge swath
of spectrum dedicated to PTMP without huge fees for rural
areas. Lots of places where we could service 700-800 people if
only more spectrum was available and it wouldn't

Re: [AFMUG] RJ45 crimpers

2021-03-05 Thread Josh Luthman

Seriously doubt it.  Based on my experience of all of them.

Josh Luthman
24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:05 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Every RJ45 mentioned in this thread so far actually come from the same
> factory, we buy them from the factory direct in bulk. If you can buy 1,000
> pcs or more and want to save a bit hit me off  the list.
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:38 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.streakwave.com/platinum-tools-100054c-ez-rj-pro-hd-crimp-tool
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 4:29 PM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This one?
>>>
>>> https://www.shireeninc.com/osc/crimper-tool-for-rj45-rj11-rj12
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:49 PM Josh Luthman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Tried to find that this morning to put in our wiki, actually.  I got it
 from Streakwave.  My guy is out of the office today, though.  And the
 website is broken if you search crimper.

 If you need it right away just call someone at Streakwave and ask for
 crimpers.  If there are multiple options, ask what Imagine Networks has
 been buying.  The new ones are blue.

 Josh Luthman
 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373


 On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:58 PM Carl Peterson <
 cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

> Thanks Josh,
>
> Any chance you could send the info on the tool you are using with
> them?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 1:19 PM Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> 100% Shireen smartfeed connectors.  I think they made the tool, too.
>> It nearly eliminated our rj45/cat5 problems.  At least 99% resolved I'd 
>> say.
>>
>> We tried Arc/Ubnt/Netonix in the past.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:06 PM Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We currently use 2061 dies in regular crimp frames.  Debating buying
>>> new dies vs moving to something else.  Looking for something as 
>>> tech-proof
>>> as possible that doesn't rely on them knowing how much to squeeze.  Any
>>> favorites out there?  Any favorites on Shielded RJ45s?  We currently use
>>> the Netonix ones.
>>>
>>> We have been seeing a lot more ethernet cabling issues as of late.
>>> Trying to figure out why that is and prevent it.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Carl Peterson
>>>
>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>
>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>
>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>
>>> (410) 637-3707
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
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>
 --
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 AF@af.afmug.com
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Carl Peterson
>>>
>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>
>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>
>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>
>>> (410) 637-3707
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Powering 450M 5ghz

You can use these things:

https://tyconsystems.com/products/tycon-power/poe-splitters/poe-simple-splitters-injectors/item/243-poe-powertap

We use them on ePMP 3K so we can use direct DC.

No SFP on AF is annoying, too.

Josh

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:44 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Radio Designers just don't understand alot of things.  I got into an
> argument with one of my guys.  He was saying "It's a $6k radio, of course
> it has a DC Input"  Finally had to find a picture of the radio showing the
> ports and he was just shaking his head.
>
> Same thing with no SFP on Airfiber radios, or the single UBolt adjustment
> on F300.  The Designers have never been in the field to have to think about
> how these products are actually used.
>
>
> On 3/5/2021 9:28 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> It's *so* stupid these don't accept direct DC.
>
> I think it's just standard, but you may want someone else to back me up.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:23 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> It looks like the 450M 5ghz can only be powered with POE.  Is it just
>> standard GIGe POE pinout?  Can I use a McCown GIGE-POE-APC?  My Var is
>> quoting me the $300 AC/DC POE Injector (plus power cord) and that seems
>> like overkill.  It will be on about 360' of Cat5, but I will have Fiber
>> for the data connection, and UGPS for sync.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

2021-03-05 Thread Mike Hammett

Eh, I'd limit that to developed areas or areas otherwise too difficult to do 
with LEO or fixed wireless. 

Rural areas with people, fixed wireless will still be king. 
Rural areas without people, LEO will be king. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Robert"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 9:40:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan 

Even though it would put us out of biz, fiber is the need of the future. Every 
thing else is stop gap, for fixed locations. 



On 3/5/21 7:20 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: 



You would think that since they bothered coming up with excuses why the current 
standard isn't good enough, they could at least come up with a number based on 
their imagined need, instead of just coming up with a random number with no 
basis in anything other than "100/100 sounds good". 


It's not that hard... according to them, Zoom needs 3.8mbps upload per 1080p 
stream (and obviously everybody in the house absolutely needs to be using 
1080p), so lets say a lot of households are running 5 simultaneous Zoom 
sessions (which I'm guessing is actually fairly rare)... that's 19Mbps, so 
throw in some overhead and make it, say 25Mbps. That's realistically going to 
be way more upload bandwidth than the vast majority of people ever need, so why 
exactly do we need to make the standard four times that? 


I guess it's one way to only fund fiber, which probably isn't a terrible idea 
if we're going to insist on throwing tax payer money away on such projects. 


On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:21 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



As long as they're tossing arbitrary numbers for need out there without any 
fact based justification I think we should get carte blanche to do as we please 
to make it happen. No need for ROW, we will take the O out of OTARD and give it 
a big fat RE. Dont want us running cable through your living room to your 
neighbors house? Move. That 300 year old oak is in the way? Federal money for 
husqvarna solutions. 1 watt per mhz? F that, 1.12 gigawatt at the cpe. We will 
burn those obstructions out of the way, make it disappear like micheal j fox in 
a Polaroid. 


On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 9:29 PM Ryan Ray < ryan...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Just create another CBRS database and let's get a huge swath of spectrum 
dedicated to PTMP without huge fees for rural areas. Lots of places where we 
could service 700-800 people if only more spectrum was available and it 
wouldn't impact anyone else in that band. If it does? Shut it off. Spectrum 
feels like such a wasted resource. We could be doing so much more with it, we 
understand how it propagates and software can now handle that on the fly in 
order to allocate to as many people as possible. I honestly think a fluid and 
dynamic database like this is the future of wireless. 







On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 5:45 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/4/22312065/fcc-highspeed-broadband-service-ajit-pai-bennet-angus-king-rob-portman
 
Meth and kickbacks. They need to just free up 500mhz-120ghz for just WISP use. 
Then each wisp can have a ton of spectrum to get that porn to every device -- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Powering 450M 5ghz

2021-03-05 Thread Nate Burke

Radio Designers just don't understand alot of things.  I got into an 
argument with one of my guys.  He was saying "It's a $6k radio, of 
course it has a DC Input"  Finally had to find a picture of the radio 
showing the ports and he was just shaking his head.


Same thing with no SFP on Airfiber radios, or the single UBolt 
adjustment on F300.  The Designers have never been in the field to have 
to think about how these products are actually used.



On 3/5/2021 9:28 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

It's *so* stupid these don't accept direct DC.

I think it's just standard, but you may want someone else to back me up.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:23 AM Nate Burke > wrote:


It looks like the 450M 5ghz can only be powered with POE.  Is it just
standard GIGe POE pinout?  Can I use a McCown GIGE-POE-APC? My Var is
quoting me the $300 AC/DC POE Injector (plus power cord) and that
seems
like overkill.  It will be on about 360' of Cat5, but I will have
Fiber
for the data connection, and UGPS for sync.

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

2021-03-05 Thread Robert

Even though it would put us out of biz, fiber is the need of the
future. Every thing else is stop gap, for fixed locations.

On 3/5/21 7:20 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
You would think that since they bothered coming up with excuses why
the current standard isn't good enough, they could at least come up
with a number based on their imagined need, instead of just coming up
with a random number with no basis in anything other than "100/100
sounds good".

It's not that hard... according to them, Zoom needs 3.8mbps upload per
1080p stream (and obviously everybody in the house absolutely needs to
be using 1080p), so lets say a lot of households are running 5
simultaneous Zoom sessions (which I'm guessing is actually fairly
rare)... that's 19Mbps, so throw in some overhead and make it, say
25Mbps. That's realistically going to be way more upload bandwidth
than the vast majority of people ever need, so why exactly do we need
to make the standard four times that?

I guess it's one way to only fund fiber, which probably isn't a
terrible idea if we're going to insist on throwing tax payer money
away on such projects.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:21 PM Steve Jones > wrote:

As long as they're tossing arbitrary numbers for need out there
without any fact based justification I think we should get carte
blanche to do as we please to make it happen. No need for ROW, we
will take the O out of OTARD and give it a big fat RE. Dont
want us running cable through your living room to your neighbors
house? Move. That 300 year old oak is in the way? Federal money
for husqvarna solutions. 1 watt per mhz? F that, 1.12 gigawatt at
the cpe. We will burn those obstructions out of the way, make it
disappear like micheal j fox in a Polaroid.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 9:29 PM Ryan Ray mailto:ryan...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Just create another CBRS database and let's get a huge swath
of spectrum dedicated to PTMP without huge fees for rural
areas. Lots of places where we could service 700-800 people if
only more spectrum was available and it wouldn't impact anyone
else in that band. If it does? Shut it off. Spectrum feels
like such a wasted resource. We could be doing so much more
with it, we understand how it propagates and software can now
handle that on the fly in order to allocate to as many people
as possible. I honestly think a fluid and dynamic database
like this is the future of wireless.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 5:45 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/4/22312065/fcc-highspeed-broadband-service-ajit-pai-bennet-angus-king-rob-portman

Meth and kickbacks. They need to just free up
500mhz-120ghz for just WISP use. Then each wisp can have a
ton of spectrum to get that porn to every device
--
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

2021-03-05 Thread Nate Burke

I'm trying to figure out who was lobbying for this. Comcast in our area
is advertising 1-1.5gb/s download, but upload speed is only 30mb.
Unless Comcast is looking for Billions of dollars to forklift upgrade to
FTTH. Or are they hoping that DOCSIS4 will fix that.

On 3/5/2021 9:20 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
You would think that since they bothered coming up with excuses why
the current standard isn't good enough, they could at least come up
with a number based on their imagined need, instead of just coming up
with a random number with no basis in anything other than "100/100
sounds good".

I guess it's one way to only fund fiber, which probably isn't a
terrible idea if we're going to insist on throwing tax payer money
away on such projects.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:21 PM Steve Jones > wrote:

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 9:29 PM Ryan Ray mailto:ryan...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 5:45 PM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/4/22312065/fcc-highspeed-broadband-service-ajit-pai-bennet-angus-king-rob-portman

Meth and kickbacks. They need to just free up
500mhz-120ghz for just WISP use. Then each wisp can have a
ton of spectrum to get that porn to every device
--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Powering 450M 5ghz

It's *so* stupid these don't accept direct DC.

I think it's just standard, but you may want someone else to back me up.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 10:23 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> It looks like the 450M 5ghz can only be powered with POE.  Is it just
> standard GIGe POE pinout?  Can I use a McCown GIGE-POE-APC?  My Var is
> quoting me the $300 AC/DC POE Injector (plus power cord) and that seems
> like overkill.  It will be on about 360' of Cat5, but I will have Fiber
> for the data connection, and UGPS for sync.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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[AFMUG] Powering 450M 5ghz

2021-03-05 Thread Nate Burke

It looks like the 450M 5ghz can only be powered with POE.  Is it just 
standard GIGe POE pinout?  Can I use a McCown GIGE-POE-APC?  My Var is 
quoting me the $300 AC/DC POE Injector (plus power cord) and that seems 
like overkill.  It will be on about 360' of Cat5, but I will have Fiber 
for the data connection, and UGPS for sync.


--
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Re: [AFMUG] So it begins agan

2021-03-05 Thread Mathew Howard

You would think that since they bothered coming up with excuses why the
current standard isn't good enough, they could at least come up with a
number based on their imagined need, instead of just coming up with a
random number with no basis in anything other than "100/100 sounds good".

It's not that hard... according to them, Zoom needs 3.8mbps upload per
1080p stream (and obviously everybody in the house absolutely needs to be
using 1080p), so lets say a lot of households are running 5 simultaneous
Zoom sessions (which I'm guessing is actually fairly rare)... that's
19Mbps, so throw in some overhead and make it, say 25Mbps. That's
realistically going to be way more upload bandwidth than the vast majority
of people ever need, so why exactly do we need to make the standard four
times that?

I guess it's one way to only fund fiber, which probably isn't a terrible
idea if we're going to insist on throwing tax payer money away on such
projects.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:21 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> As long as they're tossing arbitrary numbers for need out there without
> any fact based justification I think we should get carte blanche to do as
> we please to make it happen. No need for ROW, we will take the O out of
> OTARD and give it  a big fat RE. Dont want us running cable through
> your living room to your neighbors house? Move. That 300 year old oak is in
> the way? Federal money for husqvarna solutions. 1 watt per mhz? F that,
> 1.12 gigawatt at the cpe. We will burn those obstructions out of the way,
> make it disappear like micheal j fox in a Polaroid.
>
> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 9:29 PM Ryan Ray  wrote:
>
>> Just create another CBRS database and let's get a huge swath of spectrum
>> dedicated to PTMP without huge fees for rural areas. Lots of places where
>> we could service 700-800 people if only more spectrum was available and it
>> wouldn't impact anyone else in that band. If it does? Shut it off. Spectrum
>> feels like such a wasted resource. We could be doing so much more with it,
>> we understand how it propagates and software can now handle that on the fly
>> in order to allocate to as many people as possible. I honestly think a
>> fluid and dynamic database like this is the future of wireless.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 5:45 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/4/22312065/fcc-highspeed-broadband-service-ajit-pai-bennet-angus-king-rob-portman
>>> Meth and kickbacks. They need to just free up 500mhz-120ghz for just
>>> WISP use. Then each wisp can have a ton of spectrum to get that porn to
>>> every device
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS

2021-03-05 Thread Jeff Broadwick - Lists

We sell a Belden cable and a house brand cable.  The Belden is 16AWG and the 
other is 18AWG.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:55 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Also, source for OSP multipair DC cable?
>  
> From: AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> 
> Date: Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:51 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Matthew Kahle 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
> 
> Matt can get you pricing off list.
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> 
> 
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
> 
> 
> How its less? The LPU kits are 2 units for ~$250
>  
> From: AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> 
> Date: Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:36 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Matthew Kahle 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
> 
> We’ve been selling the Transtector DC Defender.  It’s much more available and 
> costs less.  1101-1110 is the p/n.
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:19 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
> 
> 
> Im wondering if the Cambium DC SS is the best route for our CN Medusa CBRS 
> deployment.
>  
> The 4 pin thingy is really a PITA for field techs.  Would the McCown Tech or 
> any other DC SS are a good replacement?
>  
> Gino Villarini 
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Favor

2021-03-05 Thread Cameron Crum

A here I didn't think there was anyone else in southern Utah.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 10:22 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> You want a raid? This is how you get a raid
>
> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021, 10:02 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:
>
>> So every year we have this “Best of Southern Utah” campaign. Trying to
>> swing some more votes in our favor for our regional “Best ISP” and a couple
>> of other categories.
>>
>> Anybody want to do us a solid and take 10 seconds and vote for us? :).
>> Nobody wants the telco or cableco to win, right?
>>
>> https://www.bestofsouthernutah.com/v/infowest/
>>
>> All ya gotta do is click “Select All” and “Submit Vote”.  You can vote
>> daily from each browser or device.
>>
>> Please and Thank You!
>>
>> -c
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>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS

The first time I did DC on a tower we got Superior Essex power cable 
from one of the big vendorsmaybe Tesco.


After that roll was gone I think we started using outdoor speaker wire 
and never went back.  It was a lot cheaper and I couldn't see any 
difference in functionality.


On 3/5/2021 9:01 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

For cable,we're using this:

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/18-4c-thhn-pvc-tray-cable 




On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:55 AM Gino A. Villarini > wrote:




Also, source for OSP multipair DC cable?

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Jeff Broadwick -
Lists mailto:jeffl...@att.net>>
*Date: *Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:51 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc: *Matthew Kahle mailto:mka...@cticonnect.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS

Matt can get you pricing off list.

Jeff Broadwick

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 



On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:



How its less? The LPU kits are 2 units for ~$250

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Jeff Broadwick
- Lists mailto:jeffl...@att.net>>
*Date: *Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:36 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc: *Matthew Kahle mailto:mka...@cticonnect.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS

We’ve been selling the Transtector DC Defender.  It’s much
more available and costs less.  1101-1110 is the p/n.

Jeff Broadwick

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com 




On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:19 AM, Gino A. Villarini
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:



Im wondering if the Cambium DC SS is the best route for
our CN Medusa CBRS deployment.

The 4 pin thingy is really a PITA for field techs.  Would
the McCown Tech or any other DC SS are a good replacement?

*Gino**Villarini **
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204

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www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro
Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

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Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS

For cable,we're using this:

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/18-4c-thhn-pvc-tray-cable


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:55 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> 
>
>
>
> Also, source for OSP multipair DC cable?
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists <
> jeffl...@att.net>
> *Date: *Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:51 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc: *Matthew Kahle 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
>
> Matt can get you pricing off list.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> CTIconnect
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>
> 
>
> How its less? The LPU kits are 2 units for ~$250
>
>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists <
> jeffl...@att.net>
> *Date: *Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:36 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc: *Matthew Kahle 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
>
> We’ve been selling the Transtector DC Defender.  It’s much more available
> and costs less.  1101-1110 is the p/n.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> CTIconnect
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:19 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Im wondering if the Cambium DC SS is the best route for our CN Medusa CBRS
> deployment.
>
>
>
> The 4 pin thingy is really a PITA for field techs.  Would the McCown Tech
> or any other DC SS are a good replacement?
>
>
>
> *Gino** Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo] 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. inc500]
> 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
> 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. insta-logo]
> 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. in-logo]
> 
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. tw-logo]
> 
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. yt-logo]
> 
>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] AF Digest, Vol 34, Issue 113

2021-03-05 Thread Ryan McAfee

I use their 14-2 and 14-4 cable.
https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/14-4c-thhn-pvc-tray-cable
https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/tray-cable-thhn-pvc

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 7:55 AM  wrote:

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2021 13:54:17 +
> From: "Gino A. Villarini" 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Matthew Kahle 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
> Message-ID:
> <
> bn6pr20mb1507a679859a78da2f39ba40a1...@bn6pr20mb1507.namprd20.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> ??
>
> Also, source for OSP multipair DC cable?
>
> From: AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists <
> jeffl...@att.net>
> Date: Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:51 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Matthew Kahle 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
> Matt can get you pricing off list.
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
> ?
> How its less? The LPU kits are 2 units for ~$250
>
> From: AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists <
> jeffl...@att.net>
> Date: Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:36 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Matthew Kahle 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
> We?ve been selling the Transtector DC Defender.  It?s much more available
> and costs less.  1101-1110 is the p/n.
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
> On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:19 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
> ?
> Im wondering if the Cambium DC SS is the best route for our CN Medusa CBRS
> deployment.
>
> The 4 pin thingy is really a PITA for field techs.  Would the McCown Tech
> or any other DC SS are a good replacement?
>
>
> Gino Villarini
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> [Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo]<http://www.aeronetpr.com>
> [Image removed by sender. inc500]<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
> [Image removed by sender. fb-logo]<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
> [Image removed by sender. insta-logo]<
> https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>
> [Image removed by sender. in-logo]<
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
> [Image removed by sender. tw-logo]<
> https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
> >
> [Image removed by sender. yt-logo]<
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
>
> www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com> | Metro Office Park #18 Suite
> 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
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> End of AF Digest, Vol 34, Issue 113
> ***
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Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS

2021-03-05 Thread Gino A. Villarini



Also, source for OSP multipair DC cable?

From: AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists 

Date: Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:51 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Matthew Kahle 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
Matt can get you pricing off list.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

How its less? The LPU kits are 2 units for ~$250

From: AF  on behalf of Jeff Broadwick - Lists 

Date: Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Matthew Kahle 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS
We’ve been selling the Transtector DC Defender.  It’s much more available and 
costs less.  1101-1110 is the p/n.
Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Mar 5, 2021, at 7:19 AM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

Im wondering if the Cambium DC SS is the best route for our CN Medusa CBRS 
deployment.

The 4 pin thingy is really a PITA for field techs.  Would the McCown Tech or 
any other DC SS are a good replacement?

Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo]
[Image removed by sender. inc500]
[Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
insta-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
in-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
tw-logo]
[Image removed by sender. 
yt-logo]

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
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Re: [AFMUG] CN Medusa DC SS