Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

Jan,

I don't recall any hacks or data breaches to Google at all. I've seen
plenty of other platforms with breaches like t-mobile but Google is pretty
secure. I think you're acting a little paranoid in protecting your phone
number. I can pay some online service and get your home address, phone
numbers, and social security number if I wanted to. This information that
you think is very secure is almost public knowledge for a fee.

As others have said, DKIM/SPF are industry standards, not Google, and
they're pretty old at this point. DMARC is newer, to me at least, in the
last several years so not every platform gives much weight to this but DKIM
and SPF is a must nowadays for any email provider.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 4:03 PM Josh Baird  wrote:

> DKIM/SPF/DFMARC aren't "made-up standards" from Google.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail service
>> is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google that
>> comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.  It's a
>> recent standard imposed by google.  And I'm never going to willingly give
>> google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the hackers will
>> have my email and my phone number.  Why don't I just broadcast on some
>> public website my social security number too?  Yeah, tiktok or twitter,
>> give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my emails along with my
>> real name.  Because when you give google your phone number, they now have
>> exactly who you are and access to all your private info.  How many times in
>> the last couple years has google been hacked?  Constantly!  I am not going
>> to freely give this shit to them.
>>
>> Well, I'm wrong, you're right.  When I bought the phone, google forced me
>> into an email address as part of using the phone.  I never use that email
>> and I refuse to login to anything using that email.  Other than that I
>> don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.
>> On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
>> created your own problems.
>>
>> spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
>> have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
>> lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
>> can raise it.
>>
>> Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
>> deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
>> as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
>> if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
>> that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
>> junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
>> the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
>> exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
>> visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.
>>
>> Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since
>> before emails. and even that changed over time.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
>>> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any
>>> control over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with
>>> the domain name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google
>>> is a terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they
>>> can get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they
>>> want to force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're
>>> going to be asking for money
>>>
>>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
>>> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
>>> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
>>> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
>>> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
>>> you sent out by telegraph
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
 bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
 d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
 
 b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
  
 TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
  
 n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Josh Baird]

DKIM/SPF/DFMARC aren't "made-up standards" from Google.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail service
> is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google that
> comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.  It's a
> recent standard imposed by google.  And I'm never going to willingly give
> google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the hackers will
> have my email and my phone number.  Why don't I just broadcast on some
> public website my social security number too?  Yeah, tiktok or twitter,
> give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my emails along with my
> real name.  Because when you give google your phone number, they now have
> exactly who you are and access to all your private info.  How many times in
> the last couple years has google been hacked?  Constantly!  I am not going
> to freely give this shit to them.
>
> Well, I'm wrong, you're right.  When I bought the phone, google forced me
> into an email address as part of using the phone.  I never use that email
> and I refuse to login to anything using that email.  Other than that I
> don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.
> On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
> created your own problems.
>
> spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
> have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
> lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
> can raise it.
>
> Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
> deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
> as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
> if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
> that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
> junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
> the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
> exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
> visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.
>
> Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since before
> emails. and even that changed over time.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
>> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control
>> over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the domain
>> name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is a
>> terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they can
>> get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
>> force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're going to
>> be asking for money
>>
>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
>> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
>> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
>> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
>> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
>> you sent out by telegraph
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>  
>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>  
>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>  
>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>  
>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>  bhLA==
>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>>> s=arc-20160816;
>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>  
>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>  
>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>  
>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>  

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

dkim has been around since 2004, nothing new about it. Its nothing to do
with google. dkim checks are a standard across all legitimate platforms
(also mail.com, fyi).

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 3:31 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail service
> is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google that
> comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.  It's a
> recent standard imposed by google.  And I'm never going to willingly give
> google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the hackers will
> have my email and my phone number.  Why don't I just broadcast on some
> public website my social security number too?  Yeah, tiktok or twitter,
> give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my emails along with my
> real name.  Because when you give google your phone number, they now have
> exactly who you are and access to all your private info.  How many times in
> the last couple years has google been hacked?  Constantly!  I am not going
> to freely give this shit to them.
>
> Well, I'm wrong, you're right.  When I bought the phone, google forced me
> into an email address as part of using the phone.  I never use that email
> and I refuse to login to anything using that email.  Other than that I
> don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.
> On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
> created your own problems.
>
> spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
> have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
> lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
> can raise it.
>
> Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
> deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
> as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
> if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
> that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
> junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
> the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
> exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
> visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.
>
> Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since before
> emails. and even that changed over time.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
>> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control
>> over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the domain
>> name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is a
>> terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they can
>> get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
>> force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're going to
>> be asking for money
>>
>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
>> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
>> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
>> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
>> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
>> you sent out by telegraph
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>  
>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>  
>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>  
>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>  
>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>  bhLA==
>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>>> s=arc-20160816;
>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>  
>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>  
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail service 
is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google that 
comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.  It's a 
recent standard imposed by google.  And I'm never going to willingly 
give google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the 
hackers will have my email and my phone number.  Why don't I just 
broadcast on some public website my social security number too?  Yeah, 
tiktok or twitter, give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my 
emails along with my real name.  Because when you give google your phone 
number, they now have exactly who you are and access to all your private 
info.  How many times in the last couple years has google been hacked?  
Constantly!  I am not going to freely give this shit to them.


Well, I'm wrong, you're right.  When I bought the phone, google forced 
me into an email address as part of using the phone.  I never use that 
email and I refuse to login to anything using that email.  Other than 
that I don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.


On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
if you had followed your email providers instructions, you 
wouldnt have created your own problems.


spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email 
providers have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of 
dkim raises it, lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the 
IPs in the mail chain can raise it.


Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your 
deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you 
might go as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want 
deliverability. But if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the 
correspondence in an envelope that looks like dish network advertising 
because it would be discarded as junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd 
shaped envelope that can get stuck in the sorting machines, you 
wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the exterior, youd put it 
in a business class envelope with windows and clearly visible address 
marking, a proper return address, etc.


Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since 
before emails. and even that changed over time.


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should
be getting bounced like the mail.com  records
too.  I don't have any control over the mail servers.  I rent the
service "easymail" along with the domain name from easydns.  You
know, it sounds to me more like google is a terrorist organization
stamping on the competition just because they can get away with
it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're
going to be asking for money

Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?

On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:

grnacres.net  doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc
record. Thats bad domain deliverability practice, nothing to do
with the mailhost perse, but if mail.com  doesnt
support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant blame
recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server
isnt current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get
communications you sent out by telegraph

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
 d=google.com  ; s=arc-20160816;
 
b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
  
TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
  
n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
  
TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
  
jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
  bhLA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com  
; s=arc-20160816;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
 bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
 
b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
  
/h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
  
6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
  

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

Jan,

It appears that what you shared demonstrates that mail.com isn't following
proper procedure for sending emails. You need to pass SPF and DKIM at a
minimum and ideally DMARC, which we just implemented too with our Gsuite
account. This also allows our billing system to send emails on our behalf
and still have them be signed as if they're sent direct from our account.
This means all emails sent from us and our billing system pass all spam
mitigation because we prove it's not spoofed.

You need to resolve this or have your email host fix it. It's not Gmail's
fault as Steve said. They're just protecting their customers from spam
which I greatly appreciate.

If you don't follow best practices, your emails will continue to be
treated as spam.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 2:17 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
> created your own problems.
>
> spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
> have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
> lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
> can raise it.
>
> Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
> deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
> as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
> if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
> that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
> junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
> the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
> exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
> visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.
>
> Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since before
> emails. and even that changed over time.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
>> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control
>> over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the domain
>> name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is a
>> terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they can
>> get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
>> force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're going to
>> be asking for money
>>
>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
>> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
>> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
>> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
>> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
>> you sent out by telegraph
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>  
>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>  
>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>  
>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>  
>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>  bhLA==
>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>>> s=arc-20160816;
>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>  
>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>  
>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>  
>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>  
>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>  avNg==
>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Return-Path: 
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
created your own problems.

spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
can raise it.

Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.

Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since before
emails. and even that changed over time.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control
> over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the domain
> name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is a
> terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they can
> get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
> force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're going to
> be asking for money
>
> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
> you sent out by telegraph
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>  TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>  n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>  TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>  jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>  bhLA==
>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>> s=arc-20160816;
>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>  /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>  6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>  hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>  jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>  avNg==
>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>> Return-Path: 
>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>> for 
>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
>> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
>> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>> + (UTC)
>> Received: from 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

https://kb.easydns.com/knowledge/easymail-spf-and-dkim-records/ cant tell
if mailcom and easymail.ca are the same thing, but if it is, you can
drastically help yourself by setting up DKIM and corresponding dmarc. dont
use words like viagra in emails either

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:36 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> probably should use a mail server thats not still operating like they were
> that long ago. SPF failures, no DKIM in a day where both are required for
> deliverability. you dont have your domain configured correctly either, so
> that part is on you.
>
> Its odd how much someone will fight for the right to allow themselves to
> be impersonated. I personally dont like spam so I like mailhosts that
> enforce long standing industry standards like SPF and DKIM. Its ironic that
> mail.com doesnt support DKIM yet recommends it, specifically to ensure
> deliverability: https://postmaster.mail.com/en/email-policy
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com.  Gmail is
>> blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.
>>
>> I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of
>> doing the same thing.Mail.com was and still is, free.
>>
>> Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.
>> On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> DKIM FTW!!
>> I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
>> move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
>> me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
>> PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
>>> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>>>
>>> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
>>> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
>>> practices for outgoing emails.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 i got your spam emails this morning


 On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>
> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
> last 11 years.
>
>
>
> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office 
> apps
> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>
>
>
> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>
>
>
> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a 
> year
> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>
>
>
> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and 
> go
> live your best life not having to support email.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
> dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
> the Edsel was before my time :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves
> for employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and
> we don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the 
> server
> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>
>
>
> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so
> we stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped
> being able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

probably should use a mail server thats not still operating like they were
that long ago. SPF failures, no DKIM in a day where both are required for
deliverability. you dont have your domain configured correctly either, so
that part is on you.

Its odd how much someone will fight for the right to allow themselves to be
impersonated. I personally dont like spam so I like mailhosts that enforce
long standing industry standards like SPF and DKIM. Its ironic that mail.com
doesnt support DKIM yet recommends it, specifically to ensure
deliverability: https://postmaster.mail.com/en/email-policy

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com.  Gmail is
> blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.
>
> I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of
> doing the same thing.Mail.com was and still is, free.
>
> Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.
> On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> DKIM FTW!!
> I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
> move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
> me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
> PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
>> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>>
>> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
>> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
>> practices for outgoing emails.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>
 Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed



 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
 *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
 *To:* af@af.afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers



  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
 blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

 On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

 Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
 Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
 last 11 years.



 It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
 them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps
 in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
 are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.



 I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
 It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
 net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
 email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.



 We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
 pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
 to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.



 This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
 never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
 live your best life not having to support email.



 On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

 O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
 dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
 the Edsel was before my time :-)









 On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

 I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves
 for employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and
 we don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
 hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.



 Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so
 we stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped
 being able to send emails due to something gmail did.





 *From:* Steve Jones

 *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers



 How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
 this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
 emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
 mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
 but wanted to keep their 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Seth Mattinen via AF]

On 3/10/23 10:55 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
grnacres.net  doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. 
Thats bad domain deliverability practice, nothing to do with the 
mailhost perse, but if mail.com  doesnt support dkim, 
its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant blame recipient mail servers 
when the root issue is the sending server isnt current. Its like getting 
pissed that somebody doesnt get communications you sent out by telegraph





Whether people personally believe them or not, domains should have the 
holy trinity (SPF, DKIM, and DMARC) when sending to gmail.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be 
getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control 
over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the 
domain name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is 
a terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they 
can get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they 
want to force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're 
going to be asking for money


Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?

On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
grnacres.net  doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc 
record. Thats bad domain deliverability practice, nothing to do with 
the mailhost perse, but if mail.com  doesnt support 
dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant blame recipient mail 
servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt current. Its 
like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications you sent 
out by telegraph


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:


X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
 d=google.com  ; s=arc-20160816;
 
b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
  
TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
  
n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
  
TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
  
jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
  bhLA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com  
; s=arc-20160816;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
 bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
 
b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
  
/h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
  
6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
  
hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
  
jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
  avNg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1;mx.google.com  ;
spf=pass (google.com  : domain 
ofj.vank...@grnacres.net  designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
Return-Path: 
Received: frommailout.easymail.ca    
(mailout.easymail.ca  . [64.68.200.34])
 bymx.google.com    with ESMTPS id 
p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
 for 
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com  : domain 
ofj.vank...@grnacres.net  designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
client-ip=64.68.200.34;
Authentication-Results:mx.google.com  ;
spf=pass (google.com  : domain 
ofj.vank...@grnacres.net  designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) bymailout.easymail.ca  
  (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for 
; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
Received: frommailout.easymail.ca    ([127.0.0.1]) by 
localhost (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com  
  [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 
with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)
 key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No 
client certificate requested) bymailout.easymail.ca    
(Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
Thunderbird/102.8.0
To:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
Content-Language: en-US
From: Jan-GAMs 
Subject: hellody
Content-Type: text/plain; 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com. Gmail is 
blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.


I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of 
doing the same thing.    Mail.com was and still is, free.


Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.

On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:

DKIM FTW!!
I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted 
exchange move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability 
issues, pisses me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may 
have given all the PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
 wrote:


I've never heard of mail.com  but I can assure
you Gmail doesn't block emails that are legitimate and follow
proper SPF and DKIM configurations.

I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The
only ones that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and
don't follow best practices for outgoing emails.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones
 wrote:

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com  users cannot send you
email.  How many other's are blocked as well?  Oblivion,
must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business
since 2012. Virtually no issues at all aside from a
handful of short outages over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER
needed to contact them for support. We also use Google
drive and their version of office apps in the cloud.
We don't store any files locally at all. All business
docs are at Google and they're safe there and they
handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on
your own server. It's not worth your time. My time is
worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so
spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix
my own email server would cost me more than what I pay
Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users
for gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on
2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to Google for
everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For
customer email, we never offered it and never will.
Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live your
best life not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such
really well, we just dealt with it a bunch.
authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
the Edsel was before my time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20
email addresses it serves for employees and
other business email addresses.  It is free
that way and we don’t have to worry about
anything else.  But for some reason the server
hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about
the same time each day.

Google got difficult, especially for email
chains and other things so we stopped using
them some time ago.  For example, our scanner
stopped being able to send emails due to
something gmail did.

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

How much is your time worth. The free internal
server is costing you this. We are still using
rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
emails since its same domain and a pita to set
up split routing for the mail. The cost of our
mail is covered 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

so this shows the problem not being a gmail problem, but a sending domain
problem.

Its no different than web browsers blocking access to unsupported
antiquated ciphers or old java interfaces. Thats not the browsers fault for
following current best practices, its the target items fault for not being
current. Its like saying a Cellco is no good because the nokia 6015 cant
connect to their network anymore. Nobody questions that the 6015 was the
most superior cellphone ever created and probably still has a charge since
its last use, but the world cant be expected to hold back technological
advances because the users dont want to get with the program

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> The following is what I get when I send to anybody with a gmail email 
> EXCEPTION YOU!  And you're right about the other stuff cause it gets 
> mentioned in the failure notice.  The x...@gmail.com is my wife's address 
> that failed, I didn't want that out there in a public forum.  mail.com mail 
> to her gets bounced.  Her mail.com mail gets bounced if she sends to her 
> gmail.com address.
> So what is so special about you?
>
> "This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of
> its recipients. This is a permanent error.
>
> The following address failed:
>
> x...@gmail.com :
> SMTP error from remote server for TEXT command, host: 
> gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.250.128.27) reason: 550-5.7.26 This message 
> does not pass authentication checks (SPF and DKIM
> both
> 550-5.7.26 do not pass). SPF check for [linuxmail.org] does not pass with
> ip:
> 550-5.7.26 [74.208.4.200].To best protect our users from spam, the message
>  has
> 550-5.7.26 been blocked. Please visit
> 550-5.7.26  https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication fo
> r more
> 550 5.7.26 information. i14-20020a02c60e00b003ae7490551esi471413jan.13
> 1 - gsmtp
>
>
> --- The header of the original message is following. ---
>
> Received: from [192.168.2.100] ([47.224.130.187]) by smtp.mail.com (mrgmxus003
>  [74.208.5.15]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LnhN3-1qCUwz0lzT-00htTF for
>   ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 19:17:02 +0100
> Message-ID: <43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org> 
> <43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org>
> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 10:17:01 -0800"
>
>
> On 3/10/23 09:57, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>
> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
> practices for outgoing emails.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>> last 11 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>>> employees and other 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
you sent out by telegraph

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>  TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>  n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>  TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>  jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>  bhLA==
> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
> s=arc-20160816;
> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>  /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>  6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>  hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>  jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>  avNg==
> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
> Return-Path: 
> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
> for 
> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + 
> (UTC)
> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 
> bits)
>key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 
> 15:43:00 + (UTC)
> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
> Thunderbird/102.8.0
> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
> Content-Language: en-US
> From: Jan-GAMs 
> Subject: hellody
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
>>> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
>>> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
>>> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
>>> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
>>> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.
>>> I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from
>>> the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>
 Apparently nobody on gmail has 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id
bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
 TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
 n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
 TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
 jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
 bhLA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
 :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
 /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
 hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
 jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
 avNg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
   spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net
designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender)
smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
Return-Path: 
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by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
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for 
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net
designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
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[47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(128/128 bits)
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; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
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From: Jan-GAMs 
Subject: hellody
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the FBI
> servers for my online antics
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
>> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
>> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
>> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
>> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
>> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I
>> picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from the
>> mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>> last 11 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>>> for 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the FBI
servers for my online antics


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I
> picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from the
> mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> i got your spam emails this morning
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
>> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>
>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
>> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
>> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
>> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
>> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>
>>
>>
>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

The following is what I get when I send to anybody with a gmail email EXCEPTION 
YOU!  And you're right about the other stuff cause it gets mentioned in the 
failure notice.  t...@gmail.com  is my wife's address that failed, I didn't 
want that out there in a public forum.  mail.com mail to her gets bounced.  Her 
mail.com mail gets bounced if she sends to her gmail.com address.
So what is so special about you?

"This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of
its recipients. This is a permanent error.

The following address failed:

x...@gmail.com:
SMTP error from remote server for TEXT command, host: 
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.250.128.27) reason: 550-5.7.26 This message 
does not pass authentication checks (SPF and DKIM
both
550-5.7.26 do not pass). SPF check for [linuxmail.org] does not pass with
ip:
550-5.7.26 [74.208.4.200].To best protect our users from spam, the message
 has
550-5.7.26 been blocked. Please visit
550-5.7.26https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  fo
r more
550 5.7.26 information. i14-20020a02c60e00b003ae7490551esi471413jan.13
1 - gsmtp


--- The header of the original message is following. ---

Received: from [192.168.2.100] ([47.224.130.187]) by smtp.mail.com (mrgmxus003
 [74.208.5.15]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LnhN3-1qCUwz0lzT-00htTF for
 ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 19:17:02 +0100
Message-ID:<43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 10:17:01 -0800"

On 3/10/23 09:57, Darin Steffl wrote:
I've never heard of mail.com  but I can assure you 
Gmail doesn't block emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF 
and DKIM configurations.


I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only 
ones that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't 
follow best practices for outgoing emails.


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones  
wrote:


i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com  users cannot send you email. 
How many other's are blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since
2012. Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of
short outages over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed
to contact them for support. We also use Google drive and
their version of office apps in the cloud. We don't store
any files locally at all. All business docs are at Google
and they're safe there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your
own server. It's not worth your time. My time is worth
$550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so spending
even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own email
server would cost me more than what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for
gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users
so we pay less than $60 a year to Google for everything.
Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For
customer email, we never offered it and never will. Just
recommend a free Gmail account and go live your best life
not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really
well, we just dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP.
I dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was before
my time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email
addresses it serves for employees and other
business email addresses. It is free that way and
we don’t have to worry about anything else.  But
for some reason the server hangs and needs to get
rebooted, usually about the same time each day.

Google got difficult, especially for email chains
and other things so we stopped using them some
time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
able to send emails due to something gmail did.

*From:*Steve Jones

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

DKIM FTW!!
I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>
> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
> practices for outgoing emails.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>> last 11 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>>> administrative stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look
>>> at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems
>>> than my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers
>>> would have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered
>>> inverter just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its
>>> not that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others 
tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your 
gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail 
type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent 
from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went 
through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I 
picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from 
the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?


On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com  users cannot send you email.  How
many other's are blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since
2012. Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short
outages over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to
contact them for support. We also use Google drive and their
version of office apps in the cloud. We don't store any files
locally at all. All business docs are at Google and they're
safe there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own
server. It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr
roughly when looking at net profit so spending even one hour a
year trying to manage or fix my own email server would cost me
more than what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for
gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so
we pay less than $60 a year to Google for everything. Dirt
cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For customer
email, we never offered it and never will. Just recommend a
free Gmail account and go live your best life not having to
support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well,
we just dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I
dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was before my
time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email
addresses it serves for employees and other business
email addresses.  It is free that way and we don’t
have to worry about anything else.  But for some
reason the server hangs and needs to get rebooted,
usually about the same time each day.

Google got difficult, especially for email chains and
other things so we stopped using them some time ago. 
For example, our scanner stopped being able to send
emails due to something gmail did.

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

How much is your time worth. The free internal server
is costing you this. We are still using rackspace for
subscriber mail and our office emails since its same
domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who
have dropped service but wanted to keep their email,
we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
administrative stuff.

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per
user. The way I look at it is if im not making 6 bucks
per guy a month I have bigger problems than my email.
Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email
servers would have been a blast. but now its like
maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i can
still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its
not that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste
of time.

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of
any resources unless your monetizing it. too large an
attack vector

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

It is only for our own company email.  No

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.

I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
practices for outgoing emails.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> i got your spam emails this morning
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
>> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>
>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
>> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
>> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
>> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
>> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>
>>
>>
>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>> *Online: www.surfici.net *
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>
> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
> years.
>
>
>
> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>
>
>
> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>
>
>
> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay
> to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to
> Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>
>
>
> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
> live your best life not having to support email.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
> Edsel was before my time :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>
>
>
> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this.
> We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails
> since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The
> cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but
> wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
> administrative stuff.
>
>
>
> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>
>
>
> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tyson Burris
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
> *Online: www.surfici.net *
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras
> - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free
> though.  Extremely granular configuration options.
>
>
>
> On 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[dmmoffett]

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

 All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked as 
well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually no 
issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11 years. 

 

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them for 
support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in the 
cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are at Google 
and they're safe there and they handle the backups.

 

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's not 
worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so 
spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own email server would 
cost me more than what I pay Google.

 

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay to 
upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to Google 
for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

 

This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we never 
offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live your 
best life not having to support email.

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt with 
it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was 
before my time :-)  

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for 
employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we don’t 
have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server hangs and 
needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.  

 

Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we 
stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being able 
to send emails due to something gmail did.  

 

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this. We 
are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails since its 
same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The cost of our 
mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but wanted to keep their 
email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any administrative stuff. 

 

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at it is 
if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than my email. 
Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would have been a 
blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i can 
still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that complicated, but 
its nonetheless a dumb waste of time. 

 

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources unless 
your monetizing it. too large an attack vector

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.  

 

 

 

From: Tyson Burris 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Office # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net   

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steven Kenney via AF
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Steven Kenney mailto:st...@wavedirect.org> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free though.  
Extremely granular configuration options. 

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth of 
accounts on it, 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

 All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are 
blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.


On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. 
Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over 
the last 11 years.


It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact 
them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office 
apps in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All 
business docs are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the 
backups.


I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. 
It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when 
looking at net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to 
manage or fix my own email server would cost me more than what I pay 
Google.


We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I 
pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a 
year to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.


This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we 
never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account 
and go live your best life not having to support email.


On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:


O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed
because the Edsel was before my time :-)




On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it
serves for employees and other business email addresses.  It
is free that way and we don’t have to worry about anything
else.  But for some reason the server hangs and needs to get
rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other
things so we stopped using them some time ago.  For example,
our scanner stopped being able to send emails due to something
gmail did.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
How much is your time worth. The free internal server is
costing you this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber
mail and our office emails since its same domain and a pita to
set up split routing for the mail. The cost of our mail is
covered by the folks who have dropped service but wanted to
keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
administrative stuff.
for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The
way I look at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I
have bigger problems than my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago
dicking around with email servers would have been a blast. but
now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i
can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not
that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any
resources unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
*From:* Tyson Burris
*Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good
product.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven
Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Steven Kenney 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a