Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Robert]

That is my understanding too.  But one point I would make is that the 
discharge from the BMS is pretty low compared to the size of the 
batteries we are talking about.   I was told by a techy at signature 
solar that for a rack mount battery to go into storage, it should be 
charged between 1/2 and 2/3 full and it would be good for 2 years 
without discharging too much.  That is with the switches in the off 
position, which does shut down most of the BMS functions but is not a 
disabled bms.


On 1/5/24 3:13 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:


If you want to do lifepo4 right, here are the key points (In my opinion).

 1. After a discharge, a boost charge at a voltage of around
3.5-3.65V/cell should be applied to recharge the battery, until
you reach termination charge current.

 2. After boost charge is complete, you may want to hold voltage for a
period of time to allow the BMS to top balance the cells. Your BMS
will likely be programmed to top balance above 3.4V/cell. I like
to hold the pack voltage at just above 3.4V/cell for as long as it
takes for this top balance to complete.

 3. After the top balance is complete you should switch to a float
charge of 3.375V/cell for maximum lifespan. Holding voltage higher
in float can lead to pack swelling and lower lifespan.

 4. Batteries should not be charged in any way at or below freezing
temperatures, discharging is ok.

 5. Batteries not being used (spares) should have the BMS disabled to
avoid BMS induced self discharging.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Peter Kranz via AF]

If you want to do lifepo4 right, here are the key points (In my opinion).

 

1.  After a discharge, a boost charge at a voltage of around 3.5-3.65V/cell 
should be applied to recharge the battery, until you reach termination charge 
current.

 

2.  After boost charge is complete, you may want to hold voltage for a 
period of time to allow the BMS to top balance the cells. Your BMS will likely 
be programmed to top balance above 3.4V/cell. I like to hold the pack voltage 
at just above 3.4V/cell for as long as it takes for this top balance to 
complete.

 

3.  After the top balance is complete you should switch to a float charge 
of 3.375V/cell for maximum lifespan. Holding voltage higher in float can lead 
to pack swelling and lower lifespan.

 

4.  Batteries should not be charged in any way at or below freezing 
temperatures, discharging is ok.

 

5.  Batteries not being used (spares) should have the BMS disabled to avoid 
BMS induced self discharging.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Robert]

Oh, and most BMS in LFP batteries report state of charge numbers that 
are calibrated via full charge/discharge cycles not by absolute voltage 
measurements. So you get different batteries reporting different states 
of charge unless they are all top and bottom balanced together...


Signature solar has had tons of customer support issues because of this 
and what customers see on the different panels making them think their 
batteries are much less charged than they are.   The standard response 
is fully discharge them all then fully charge them.  This can be an 
issue in production.    With Solar assistant you can look into the 
values for each cell in each battery to know what's going on with your 
server rack batteries.


On 1/4/24 3:49 PM, Robert wrote:
But LFP batteries all have BMS control with built in LVD.   Most LFP 
batteries BMS will need a "kick-start" if they go into LVD.   The 
charger I shared earlier has a LVD kick mode for the first charging mode.


On 1/4/24 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
The worst case scenario is when the power comes back on after an 
extended outage.  So the batts are going to present a heavy load plus 
all your other loads.
I always doubled what I needed to run the loads by themselves and 
made sure the current limiting would not exceed safe charging currents.
If the batts went too low, the voltage may not come back to 
operational level until they have charged a bit. If you have a LVD on 
the loads that will speed things up, assuming the LVD will reconnect, 
but it must have enough hysteresis because when the loads attach the 
voltage will drop again and if you don’t have enough hysteresis it 
will oscillate and probably do ungood things to the loads.

That is why I quit using LVDs.
*From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
*Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 2:27 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Let me see if I understand this. I get an AC/DC 48V power supply.  We 
have used DuraComm in the past.  I wire the power supply directly to 
the LFP battery pack and wire the power supply directly to the 48V 
equipment.  Does the LFP have logic in it to regulate the charging?


My guess is my power supply has to be rated higher than my equipment 
demand by a few AMPs so it can charge batteries and run equipment.  
Is there some way to limit charging AMPs on battery pack so it 
doesn't over load the power supply?


--

Best regards,

Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications

www.Myakka.com <https://www.Myakka.com>

--

Thursday, January 4, 2024, 3:57:48 PM, you wrote:

I was talking about connecting the LFP pack straight to a current
limiting power supply and not using a battery charger.
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:43 PM  wrote:

“the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current”

You don’t have to worry about that one.  The charger won’t
draw more current than what is being consumed to charge the
batteries.  I’d argue you should oversize the max current. 
If the power supply can’t supply the current the chargers are
demanding then it’ll do whatever it’s over current fault
condition is….which might be current limiting, or shutting
down and waiting for you to power cycle.  Oversize it so you
can supply the charger whatever it wants and you aren’t at
risk of over heating, tripping, or other badness.

PSU’s often get de-rated for temperature, and sometimes the
max current on the sticker is only for transient peak current
rather than continuous current.  Make it bigger so it meets
all the demand on it and nothing bad happens even in
sub-optimal conditions.

-Adam

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
*Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2024 11:28 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC
supplies with LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other
charger.  As long as I am using a power supply that will sag
voltage instead of trip offline when max current is reached,
the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the
appropriate value, I don't see why I need anything more.  The
LFP pack's BMS already has LVD, and we aren't using fancy
multi stage charge profiles with boost voltage on lithium
packs.  Am I missing something here?  So far, bossman has
preferred just playing it safe and paying for the ICT shelves
we know work, so I haven't got to try it yet.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt
 wrote:

We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP
Supplies and Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Robert]

  *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I
did this.  It wasn't a pleasant experience.  Felt I
was oversold un-needed over priced options.  Trying
to be more careful this time.

Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of
rack mount batteries, but they all seem to be China
made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are using. 
Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to
charge these guys.  Has anyone here actually setup a
LifePO4 plant. I may have to stay with the Lead Acid
stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the
bleeding edge.


--
Best regards,
 Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com <mailto:m...@mailmt.com>

Myakka Communications

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myakka.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=pA6vfvxRSGWsI7swrVsTbzp6IYiq62CJO0AcRRUAyiE%3D=0
<http://www.myakka.com/>

--

Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:

PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is
good to 100% DOD, whereas we
PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD
if we want lifespan.. So
PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..

PKvA> Peter Kranz
PKvA>

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=t9Hy5%2BztcKAjRibHx1pcXUM8vciPDMeGmf5JRA2%2BN3U%3D=0
<http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com

PKvA> -Original Message-
PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf
Of Ken Hohhof
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
            PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us
all ads for LiFePO4 batts now.
PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
PKvA>

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epochbatteries.com%2Fproducts%2F12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=PKVNWn62PB%2Fp2ghr%2FCJDFp%2B9lKmlqyHk19SiqbLWBNI%3D=0

<https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate>
PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms

PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people
call a "truck battery".  That's a
PKvA> lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D
AGMs I think they are rated 225
PKvA> Ah.  Heavy suckers. Just hauling them to the
recycler at EOL is a chore.


PKvA> -Original Message-
PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf
Of Peter Kranz via AF
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
    PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

PKvA> Cc: Peter Kranz 
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

PKvA> Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the
string has a Battery ID set by
PKvA> dip switches. If you have a compatible
inverter/charger it polls each
PKvA> battery to pull data points of interest. Take
a look at this battery, it
PKvA> supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining
batteries with battery ID's set by dip
PKvA> switch.

PKvA>

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsigna

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Robert]

But LFP batteries all have BMS control with built in LVD.   Most LFP 
batteries BMS will need a "kick-start" if they go into LVD.   The 
charger I shared earlier has a LVD kick mode for the first charging mode.


On 1/4/24 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
The worst case scenario is when the power comes back on after an 
extended outage.  So the batts are going to present a heavy load plus 
all your other loads.
I always doubled what I needed to run the loads by themselves and made 
sure the current limiting would not exceed safe charging currents.
If the batts went too low, the voltage may not come back to 
operational level until they have charged a bit.  If you have a LVD on 
the loads that will speed things up, assuming the LVD will reconnect, 
but it must have enough hysteresis because when the loads attach the 
voltage will drop again and if you don’t have enough hysteresis it 
will oscillate and probably do ungood things to the loads.

That is why I quit using LVDs.
*From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
*Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 2:27 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Let me see if I understand this. I get an AC/DC 48V power supply.  We 
have used DuraComm in the past.  I wire the power supply directly to 
the LFP battery pack and wire the power supply directly to the 48V 
equipment.  Does the LFP have logic in it to regulate the charging?


My guess is my power supply has to be rated higher than my equipment 
demand by a few AMPs so it can charge batteries and run equipment.  Is 
there some way to limit charging AMPs on battery pack so it doesn't 
over load the power supply?


--

Best regards,

Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications

www.Myakka.com <https://www.Myakka.com>

--

Thursday, January 4, 2024, 3:57:48 PM, you wrote:

I was talking about connecting the LFP pack straight to a current
limiting power supply and not using a battery charger.
On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:43 PM  wrote:

“the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current”

You don’t have to worry about that one.  The charger won’t
draw more current than what is being consumed to charge the
batteries.  I’d argue you should oversize the max current.  If
the power supply can’t supply the current the chargers are
demanding then it’ll do whatever it’s over current fault
condition is….which might be current limiting, or shutting
down and waiting for you to power cycle.  Oversize it so you
can supply the charger whatever it wants and you aren’t at
risk of over heating, tripping, or other badness.

PSU’s often get de-rated for temperature, and sometimes the
max current on the sticker is only for transient peak current
rather than continuous current.  Make it bigger so it meets
all the demand on it and nothing bad happens even in
sub-optimal conditions.

-Adam

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
*Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2024 11:28 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC
supplies with LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other
charger.  As long as I am using a power supply that will sag
voltage instead of trip offline when max current is reached,
the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the appropriate
value, I don't see why I need anything more.  The LFP pack's
BMS already has LVD, and we aren't using fancy multi stage
charge profiles with boost voltage on lithium packs.  Am I
missing something here?  So far, bossman has preferred just
playing it safe and paying for the ICT shelves we know work,
so I haven't got to try it yet.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt
 wrote:

We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP
Supplies and Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any
problems.  The only downside is that the ICT shelf can't
read the state of charge or give your an estimated runtime
remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they won't
have a super accurate reading on those parameters without
communicating with the BMS, but I wish they could at least
calculate AH in and out vs set AH capacity to give a rough
estimate.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini
 wrote:

We are having great success with signature solar units
and ICT rectifiers.

<https://aeronetpr.com/>



*Gino Villarini*
 

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[castarritt]

The reason I fear not having LVD is that the load becomes the LVD and it
might not have any hysteresis.  If a 1kw Tarana cluster pulls 0A at 43.9V
and then 20A at 44V, we would have a problem.  That said, I would use a
managed LDM from ICT anyway, so I could easily set load shed voltages to
avoid this.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> The worst case scenario is when the power comes back on after an extended
> outage.  So the batts are going to present a heavy load plus all your other
> loads.
> I always doubled what I needed to run the loads by themselves and made
> sure the current limiting would not exceed safe charging currents.
>
> If the batts went too low, the voltage may not come back to operational
> level until they have charged a bit.  If you have a LVD on the loads that
> will speed things up, assuming the LVD will reconnect, but it must have
> enough hysteresis because when the loads attach the voltage will drop again
> and if you don’t have enough hysteresis it will oscillate and probably do
> ungood things to the loads.
>
> That is why I quit using LVDs.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 2:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
>
> Let me see if I understand this. I get an AC/DC 48V power supply.  We have
> used DuraComm in the past.  I wire the power supply directly to the LFP
> battery pack and wire the power supply directly to the 48V equipment.  Does
> the LFP have logic in it to regulate the charging?
>
>
>
> My guess is my power supply has to be rated higher than my equipment
> demand by a few AMPs so it can charge batteries and run equipment.  Is
> there some way to limit charging AMPs on battery pack so it doesn't over
> load the power supply?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Thursday, January 4, 2024, 3:57:48 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>
> I was talking about connecting the LFP pack straight to a current limiting
> power supply and not using a battery charger.
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:43 PM  wrote:
>
>> “the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge current”
>>
>> You don’t have to worry about that one.  The charger won’t draw more
>> current than what is being consumed to charge the batteries.  I’d argue you
>> should oversize the max current.  If the power supply can’t supply the
>> current the chargers are demanding then it’ll do whatever it’s over current
>> fault condition is….which might be current limiting, or shutting down and
>> waiting for you to power cycle.  Oversize it so you can supply the charger
>> whatever it wants and you aren’t at risk of over heating, tripping, or
>> other badness.
>>
>> PSU’s often get de-rated for temperature, and sometimes the max current
>> on the sticker is only for transient peak current rather than continuous
>> current.  Make it bigger so it meets all the demand on it and nothing bad
>> happens even in sub-optimal conditions.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2024 11:28 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>>
>>
>> I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC supplies
>> with LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other charger.  As long as I am
>> using a power supply that will sag voltage instead of trip offline when max
>> current is reached, the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated
>> charge current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the appropriate
>> value, I don't see why I need anything more.  The LFP pack's BMS already
>> has LVD, and we aren't using fancy multi stage charge profiles with boost
>> voltage on lithium packs.  Am I missing something here?  So far, bossman
>> has preferred just playing it safe and paying for the ICT shelves we know
>> work, so I haven't got to try it yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt  wrote:
>>
>> We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies and
>> Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The only downside
>> is that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge or give your an
>> estimated runtime remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they
>> won't have a super accurate reading on those parameters without
>> communicating with the BMS, 

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Robert Andrews]

Not all lithium is the same...  Tesla has careful temperature controls 
to manage their packs.  And are subject to thermal runaway.  LFP 
batteries ( I can't say completely ) are not so subject to thermal 
runaway.  Running them inside a house is much safer than any other 
Lithium chemistry.


 I have a 24v 400 AH pack running power for my server rack, which all 
run with 24v power supplies.   Inside my office.  Not worried much about 
it as long as nobody shorts it out behind the fuses.


Other chemistries are what make all the news, such as those in electric 
bikes, scooters, hoverboards, specially when someone leaves them on a 
charger in a garage when the temperatures get out of control and the BMS 
doesn't have any temperature controls on charging.


When you look at LFP batteries, unless the environment is well under 
control, you need to make sure that the battery has both high and LOW 
temperature protection.  Your shelter gets below 32 degrees because the 
power went off, the batteries go below freezing and the power comes back 
on without the shelter warming up and the charger goes on.   Your 
batteries will be toast...



On 1/4/24 09:12, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I know lead acid batteries have their safety issues, what about lithium?

With the Tesla Megapacks, I think fire departments just let them burn 
themselves out and flood adjacent ones with water to keep the fire from 
spreading.  Are there any building code restrictions against putting 
them in office buildings or data centers?  In general I would assume a 
stationary battery is less likely to catch fire compared to a Tesla car 
which can hit other objects while going 100 mph.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 11:04 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Just the joy of handling lighter batts make lithium well worth it.  Not 
to mention all the other positive attributes.


*From:*castarritt

*Sent:*Thursday, January 4, 2024 9:27 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC supplies 
with LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other charger.  As long as I am 
using a power supply that will sag voltage instead of trip offline when 
max current is reached, the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's 
rated charge current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the 
appropriate value, I don't see why I need anything more.  The LFP pack's 
BMS already has LVD, and we aren't using fancy multi stage charge 
profiles with boost voltage on lithium packs.  Am I missing something 
here?  So far, bossman has preferred just playing it safe and paying for 
the ICT shelves we know work, so I haven't got to try it yet.


On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt <mailto:castarr...@gmail.com>> wrote:


We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies
and Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The
only downside is that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge
or give your an estimated runtime remaining with lithium batteries. 
I understand they won't have a super accurate reading on those

parameters without communicating with the BMS, but I wish they could
at least calculate AH in and out vs set AH capacity to give a rough
estimate.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:

We are having great success with signature solar units and ICT
rectifiers.

<https://aeronetpr.com/>



*Gino Villarini*
Founder / President
@GVillarini
787.273.4143 |

<https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>



<https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>



<https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/>



<https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>



<https://twitter.com/aeronetpr>



<https://www.youtube.com/user/AeroNetPR>



<https://wa.me/17872734144>

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

AeroNet-dula-network-access.jpg <https://store.homefi.pr/>

*From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Mark - Myakka
Technologies mailto:m...@mailmt.com>>
*Date: *Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It
wasn't a pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed
over priced options.  Trying to be more careful this time.

Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mou

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Just the joy of handling lighter batts make lithium well worth it.  Not to 
mention all the other positive attributes.  



From: castarritt 
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2024 9:27 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC supplies with LFP 
packs instead of a fancy ICT or other charger.  As long as I am using a power 
supply that will sag voltage instead of trip offline when max current is 
reached, the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge current, 
and I can set the supply's voltage to the appropriate value, I don't see why I 
need anything more.  The LFP pack's BMS already has LVD, and we aren't using 
fancy multi stage charge profiles with boost voltage on lithium packs.  Am I 
missing something here?  So far, bossman has preferred just playing it safe and 
paying for the ICT shelves we know work, so I haven't got to try it yet.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt  wrote:

  We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies and Power 
Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The only downside is that 
the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge or give your an estimated runtime 
remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they won't have a super 
accurate reading on those parameters without communicating with the BMS, but I 
wish they could at least calculate AH in and out vs set AH capacity to give a 
rough estimate.

  On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

We are having great success with signature solar units and ICT rectifiers. 








 Gino Villarini
  Founder / President
  @GVillarini
  787.273.4143 |  
   
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
 

 

From: AF  on behalf of Mark - Myakka Technologies 

Date: Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a 
pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.  
Trying to be more careful this time. 

Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries, 
but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are 
using.  Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.  Has 
anyone here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with the Lead 
Acid stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding edge.


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myakka.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=pA6vfvxRSGWsI7swrVsTbzp6IYiq62CJO0AcRRUAyiE%3D=0

--

Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:

PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD, whereas 
we
PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan.. 
So
PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..

PKvA> Peter Kranz
PKvA> 
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=t9Hy5%2BztcKAjRibHx1pcXUM8vciPDMeGmf5JRA2%2BN3U%3D=0
PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com

PKvA> -Original Message-
PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4 batts 
now.
PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
PKvA> 
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epochbatteries.com%2Fproducts%2F12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=PKVNWn62PB%2Fp2ghr%2FCJDFp%2B9lKmlqyHk19SiqbLWBNI%3D=0
PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms

PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".  
That's a
PKvA> lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are 
rated 225

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[castarritt]

I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC supplies with
LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other charger.  As long as I am using a
power supply that will sag voltage instead of trip offline when max current
is reached, the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the appropriate value, I
don't see why I need anything more.  The LFP pack's BMS already has LVD,
and we aren't using fancy multi stage charge profiles with boost voltage on
lithium packs.  Am I missing something here?  So far, bossman has
preferred just playing it safe and paying for the ICT shelves we know work,
so I haven't got to try it yet.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt  wrote:

> We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies and
> Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The only downside
> is that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge or give your an
> estimated runtime remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they
> won't have a super accurate reading on those parameters without
> communicating with the BMS, but I wish they could at least calculate AH in
> and out vs set AH capacity to give a rough estimate.
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> We are having great success with signature solar units and ICT
>> rectifiers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://aeronetpr.com> *Gino Villarini*
>> Founder / President
>> @GVillarini
>> 787.273.4143 |
>> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
>> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
>> <https://twitter.com/aeronetpr> <https://www.youtube.com/user/AeroNetPR>
>> <https://wa.me/17872734143> <https://wa.me/17872734144>
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>> <https://homefi.pr> <https://aeronetpr.com> <https://aeronetpr.com>
>> <https://aeronetpr.com>[image: AeroNet-dula-network-access.jpg]
>> <https://store.homefi.pr/>
>> <https://homefi.pr>
>>
>> *From: *AF  on behalf of Mark - Myakka
>> Technologies 
>> *Date: *Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>> I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a
>> pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.
>> Trying to be more careful this time.
>>
>> Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries,
>> but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are
>> using.  Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.
>> Has anyone here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with
>> the Lead Acid stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding
>> edge.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myakka.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=pA6vfvxRSGWsI7swrVsTbzp6IYiq62CJO0AcRRUAyiE%3D=0
>> <http://www.myakka.com/>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD,
>> whereas we
>> PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want
>> lifespan.. So
>> PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..
>>
>> PKvA> Peter Kranz
>> PKvA>
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=t9Hy5%2BztcKAjRibHx1pcXUM8vciPDMeGmf5JRA2%2BN3U%3D=0
>> <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
>> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
>> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>
>> PKvA> -Original Message-
>> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
>> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Us

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Josh Luthman]

FWIW I avoided the "bleeding edge" battery technology and went with the
tried and true batteries.  They just sit there and work.  I only typically
need a couple of minutes of run time before the LP generator but I have 24
hours of run time (with all 7 shelves in another few years).

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:38 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a
> pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.
> Trying to be more careful this time.
>
> Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries,
> but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are
> using.  Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.
> Has anyone here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with
> the Lead Acid stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding
> edge.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:
>
> PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD,
> whereas we
> PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan..
> So
> PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..
>
> PKvA> Peter Kranz
> PKvA> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4
> batts now.
> PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
> PKvA>
> https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate
> PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms
>
> PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".
> That's a
> PKvA> lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are
> rated 225
> PKvA> Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a
> chore.
>
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Cc: Peter Kranz 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID
> set by
> PKvA> dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
> PKvA> battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this
> battery, it
> PKvA> supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's
> set by dip
> PKvA> switch.
>
> PKvA> https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/
>
> PKvA> Peter Kranz
> PKvA> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries
> total, each
> PKvA> with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?
> Maybe.
> PKvA> My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
> PKvA> problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the
> tires are
> PKvA> at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift
> probably just
> PKvA> has one battery (and no SNMP).
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
> PKvA> To: af@af.afmug.com
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or
> something.
> PKvA> Nah, that would be too hard.
>
>
> PKvA> bp
> PKvA> 
>
> PKvA> On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> >> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than
> Bluetooth.
> >> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built
> >> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty
> >> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier s

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[castarritt]

We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies and Power
Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The only downside is
that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge or give your an estimated
runtime remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they won't have a
super accurate reading on those parameters without communicating with the
BMS, but I wish they could at least calculate AH in and out vs set AH
capacity to give a rough estimate.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> We are having great success with signature solar units and ICT rectifiers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://aeronetpr.com> *Gino Villarini*
> Founder / President
> @GVillarini
> 787.273.4143 |
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
> <https://twitter.com/aeronetpr> <https://www.youtube.com/user/AeroNetPR>
> <https://wa.me/17872734143> <https://wa.me/17872734144>
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> <https://homefi.pr> <https://aeronetpr.com> <https://aeronetpr.com>
> <https://aeronetpr.com>[image: AeroNet-dula-network-access.jpg]
> <https://store.homefi.pr/>
> <https://homefi.pr>
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Mark - Myakka
> Technologies 
> *Date: *Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a
> pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.
> Trying to be more careful this time.
>
> Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries,
> but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are
> using.  Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.
> Has anyone here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with
> the Lead Acid stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding
> edge.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myakka.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=pA6vfvxRSGWsI7swrVsTbzp6IYiq62CJO0AcRRUAyiE%3D=0
> <http://www.myakka.com/>
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:
>
> PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD,
> whereas we
> PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan..
> So
> PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..
>
> PKvA> Peter Kranz
> PKvA>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=t9Hy5%2BztcKAjRibHx1pcXUM8vciPDMeGmf5JRA2%2BN3U%3D=0
> <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4
> batts now.
> PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
> PKvA>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epochbatteries.com%2Fproducts%2F12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=PKVNWn62PB%2Fp2ghr%2FCJDFp%2B9lKmlqyHk19SiqbLWBNI%3D=0
> <https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate>
> PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms
>
> PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".
> That's a
> PKvA> lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are
> rated 225
> PKvA> Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a
> chore.
>
>
&

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a 
pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.  
Trying to be more careful this time. 

Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries, but 
they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are using.  
Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.  Has anyone 
here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with the Lead Acid 
stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding edge.


--
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:

PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD, whereas we
PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan.. So
PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..

PKvA> Peter Kranz
PKvA> www.UnwiredLtd.com
PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com

PKvA> -Original Message-
PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4 batts now.
PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
PKvA> 
https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate
PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms

PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".  
That's a
PKvA> lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are rated 
225
PKvA> Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a chore.


PKvA> -Original Message-
PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
PKvA> Cc: Peter Kranz 
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

PKvA> Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID set by
PKvA> dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
PKvA> battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this battery, it
PKvA> supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's set by 
dip
PKvA> switch. 

PKvA> https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/

PKvA> Peter Kranz
PKvA> www.UnwiredLtd.com
PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com

PKvA> -Original Message-
PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

PKvA> It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, 
each
PKvA> with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
PKvA> My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
PKvA> problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
PKvA> at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
PKvA> has one battery (and no SNMP).

PKvA> -Original Message-
PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
PKvA> To: af@af.afmug.com
PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

PKvA> Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
PKvA> Nah, that would be too hard.


PKvA> bp
PKvA> 

PKvA> On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
>> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
>> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built 
>> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty 
>> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors 
>> now support
>> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>>
>> Peter Kranz
>> www.UnwiredLtd.com
>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>> Mobile: 510-207-
>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
>>
>> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm 
>> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't 
>> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>>
>> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of 
>> controls and stats via web an

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Bill Prince]

+1

I was just going to point that out, although I was under the impression 
that LFP (that's the short name for LiFePo4) batteries could do 80% DOD. 
Either way, it's a big deal because of the additional storage.



bp


On 1/3/2024 5:02 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:

Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD, whereas we
should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan.. So
460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4 batts now.
I got one the other day for this one:
https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate
d-bluetooth-victron-comms

12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".  That's a
lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are rated 225
Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a chore.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID set by
dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this battery, it
supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's set by dip
switch.

https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, each
with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
has one battery (and no SNMP).

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something.
Nah, that would be too hard.


bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:

There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built
in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty
much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors
now support
RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.

One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm
seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't
speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.

I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of
controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge
controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery
control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for

initial commissioning?

 Original Message 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the
combination of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look

seriously at LiFePo4.

For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery
packs with a charge controller and management built in.  You can then
disable the temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other
smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just let it serve as a
power supply and distribution device.

There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in
replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier
and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that
institutional momentum thing again.

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka
Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFM

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Peter Kranz via AF]

Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD, whereas we
should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan.. So
460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4 batts now.
I got one the other day for this one:
https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate
d-bluetooth-victron-comms

12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".  That's a
lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are rated 225
Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a chore.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID set by
dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this battery, it
supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's set by dip
switch. 

https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, each
with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
has one battery (and no SNMP).

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
Nah, that would be too hard.


bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built 
> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty 
> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors 
> now support
> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
>
> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm 
> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't 
> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>
> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of 
> controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge 
> controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery 
> control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for
initial commissioning?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the 
> combination of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look
seriously at LiFePo4.
> For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery 
> packs with a charge controller and management built in.  You can then 
> disable the temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other 
> smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just let it serve as a 
> power supply and distribution device.
>
> There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in 
> replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier 
> and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that 
> institutional momentum thing again.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka 
> Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Ken Hohhof]

Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4 batts now.
I got one the other day for this one:
https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate
d-bluetooth-victron-comms

12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".  That's a
lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are rated 225
Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a chore.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID set by
dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this battery, it
supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's set by dip
switch. 

https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, each
with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
has one battery (and no SNMP).

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
Nah, that would be too hard.


bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built 
> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty 
> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors 
> now support
> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
>
> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm 
> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't 
> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>
> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of 
> controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge 
> controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery 
> control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for
initial commissioning?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the 
> combination of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look
seriously at LiFePo4.
> For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery 
> packs with a charge controller and management built in.  You can then 
> disable the temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other 
> smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just let it serve as a 
> power supply and distribution device.
>
> There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in 
> replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier 
> and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that 
> institutional momentum thing again.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka 
> Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Happy New Year
>
> I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 
> years ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on
manufacturers?
> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm
batteries?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
&

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Peter Kranz via AF]

Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID set by
dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this battery, it
supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's set by dip
switch. 

https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, each
with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
has one battery (and no SNMP).

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
Nah, that would be too hard.


bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built 
> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty 
> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors 
> now support
> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
>
> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm 
> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't 
> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>
> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of 
> controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge 
> controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery 
> control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for
initial commissioning?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the 
> combination of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look
seriously at LiFePo4.
> For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery 
> packs with a charge controller and management built in.  You can then 
> disable the temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other 
> smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just let it serve as a 
> power supply and distribution device.
>
> There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in 
> replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier 
> and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that 
> institutional momentum thing again.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka 
> Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Happy New Year
>
> I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 
> years ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on
manufacturers?
> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm
batteries?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Ken Hohhof]

It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, each
with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
has one battery (and no SNMP).

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
Nah, that would be too hard.


bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built 
> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty 
> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors 
> now support
> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
>
> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm 
> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't 
> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>
> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of 
> controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge 
> controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery 
> control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for
initial commissioning?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the 
> combination of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look
seriously at LiFePo4.
> For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery 
> packs with a charge controller and management built in.  You can then 
> disable the temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other 
> smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just let it serve as a 
> power supply and distribution device.
>
> There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in 
> replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier 
> and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that 
> institutional momentum thing again.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka 
> Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Happy New Year
>
> I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 
> years ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on
manufacturers?
> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm
batteries?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Bill Prince]

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
Nah, that would be too hard.



bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:

There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built in
BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty much all
support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors now support
RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.

One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm seeing
ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't speak from
experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.

I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of controls
and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge controllers like
Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery control module at a remote
site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for initial commissioning?

 Original Message 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the combination
of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look seriously at LiFePo4.
For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery packs with
a charge controller and management built in.  You can then disable the
temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other smart/fancy stuff the
rectifier would do and just let it serve as a power supply and distribution
device.

There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in
replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier and
just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that institutional
momentum thing again.

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Happy New Year

I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years
ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers?
What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?


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  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com


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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Peter Kranz via AF]

There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built in
BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty much all
support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors now support
RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.

One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm seeing
ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't speak from
experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.

I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of controls
and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge controllers like
Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery control module at a remote
site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for initial commissioning?

 Original Message 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the combination
of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look seriously at LiFePo4.
For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery packs with
a charge controller and management built in.  You can then disable the
temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other smart/fancy stuff the
rectifier would do and just let it serve as a power supply and distribution
device.  

There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in
replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier and
just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that institutional
momentum thing again.

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Happy New Year

I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years
ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers?
What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?


--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com


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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Josh Luthman]

That means you took out the counter weight...?

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 3:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I just replaced some forklift batts with lithium.  Something like 8 cents
> per watt hour.  Super light too.
> I think I will go with lithium from here on out.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 11:45 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Happy New Year
>
> I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years
> ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers?
> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
> Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I just replaced some forklift batts with lithium.  Something like 8 cents 
per watt hour.  Super light too.

I think I will go with lithium from here on out.


-Original Message- 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies

Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 11:45 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Happy New Year

I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years 
ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers? 
What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?



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Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com


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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Ken Hohhof]

Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.

One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm seeing ads 
claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't speak from 
experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.

I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of controls and 
stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge controllers like Alpha, 
Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery control module at a remote site if 
it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for initial commissioning?

 Original Message 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the combination
of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look seriously at LiFePo4.
For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery packs with
a charge controller and management built in.  You can then disable the
temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other smart/fancy stuff the
rectifier would do and just let it serve as a power supply and distribution
device.  

There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in
replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier and
just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that institutional
momentum thing again.

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Happy New Year

I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years
ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers?
What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?


--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com


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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[dmmoffett]

We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the combination
of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look seriously at LiFePo4.
For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery packs with
a charge controller and management built in.  You can then disable the
temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other smart/fancy stuff the
rectifier would do and just let it serve as a power supply and distribution
device.  

There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in
replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier and
just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that institutional
momentum thing again.

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Happy New Year

I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years
ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers?
What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?


--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com


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[AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Happy New Year

I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years ago.  
I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers? What are 
thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?


--

Thanks,
 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com


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