Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
What would it cost a WISP to implement this for 100 customers? From: Craig Schmaderer Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:49 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Ken, I will answer some of these. I have been using Calix now since 201, 844E since maybe 2016 and here is what I know about your answers. (Could be wrong) CC+ is basically dead, you would not start with that anymore. I have it now and I am moving to Support Cloud. From what I understand is that CC+ was mostly a third party software that Calix could only do so much with. They wanted to add features and change things but they were not able to fully customize the software. This is why they created Support Cloud (I was told this is completely their own I think) So DME Support Cloud is basically what CC+ is or was, it can do auto setup/firmware/change ssid/see connected devices/do manual channel scans. Think of it as everything you would need for your front staff to easily config and change stuff. The biggest difference that I see in EME is what I have always wanted in CC+. They integrated their NETFLOW analyzer into EME so you can see real time what a customers is doing through the 844E router. I believe they also record it for a few months so when Billy calls in the next day, your front staff can say his internet was slow last night because it looks like the XBOX chewed through 100GB of data at 9PM. The other main feature is I think you can set it to do once a day wifi scans and auto change the channels to mitigate interference. I hope that helps, I am up to 500 844E routers now with 2 failures, one was fried, other 2.4Ghz quit. Best router I have ever used. From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 10:25 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory, thanks for the info. I think a forum like this one is helpful when dealing with smaller operators like WISPs, you get some leverage by communicating with a bunch of us simultaneously, rather than having to answer the same questions over and over. 1) When you say Support Cloud is your next Gen product set that replaces CC+, how should we interpret that? Is Consumer Connect deprecated and we should only be looking at EME/DME? Or is Support Cloud something you are moving toward in some future timeframe but we should still think in terms of using CC+ today and migrating in the future? 2) Not sure I follow the distinction between EME and DME. Is this just an upgrade, like you could start out on DME, and later decide if you want to upgrade at a higher per sub per month rate and get the additional features? Or is this more of a decision that you make upfront? 3) Do we need to deploy any servers in our network to use the 844E and take advantage of all the features, or is this all a cloud service available from Calix for a fee? I was assuming the latter, but I’m not clear on this point. 4) Do we need to integrate with other billing/operations systems like Powercode or Sonar, or can this be done manually via the Calix cloud services? 5) With DME, do customers get a web portal where they can view analytics and make config changes like port forwarding and QoS for their devices? I could only find information on the embedded web interface in the 844E itself, and that is very basic stuff, not competitive with what customers get with a Netgear Nighthawk or a Google WiFi system, so not going to impress anyone. 6) With the direct sales model and cloud management, there are some signup steps needed to even be able to order some eval units and try them out. Are there other barriers to getting started, like minimum volume commitments? Basically, anything that says if you’re not going to use at least X of these total or per year, Calix is not the right solution for you? Fiber operators are in a different situation, if they are building out to 1,000 locations and expect a 50% take rate, they are going to need 500 routers because every customer is getting one, just like a cable operator where every customer gets a residential or business gateway that also acts as the cable modem. Whereas a WISP faces a decision whether to require that every customer get one and absorb the cost, or to offer it as an optional upgrade and charge a fee for the additional performance and features. Also what to do with existing customers who may have a customer owned router or another brand of leased/managed router like a Mikrotik or Cambium or TP-Link. If we go the route of optional upgrade, then we are only guessing at the take rate. That will also depend on demographics and pricing. My customer base tilts toward miserly and low tech, and the more tech savvy and upscale customers like to shop for their own tech toys. That said, if we decided
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Ken, I will answer some of these. I have been using Calix now since 201, 844E since maybe 2016 and here is what I know about your answers. (Could be wrong) CC+ is basically dead, you would not start with that anymore. I have it now and I am moving to Support Cloud. From what I understand is that CC+ was mostly a third party software that Calix could only do so much with. They wanted to add features and change things but they were not able to fully customize the software. This is why they created Support Cloud (I was told this is completely their own I think) So DME Support Cloud is basically what CC+ is or was, it can do auto setup/firmware/change ssid/see connected devices/do manual channel scans. Think of it as everything you would need for your front staff to easily config and change stuff. The biggest difference that I see in EME is what I have always wanted in CC+. They integrated their NETFLOW analyzer into EME so you can see real time what a customers is doing through the 844E router. I believe they also record it for a few months so when Billy calls in the next day, your front staff can say his internet was slow last night because it looks like the XBOX chewed through 100GB of data at 9PM. The other main feature is I think you can set it to do once a day wifi scans and auto change the channels to mitigate interference. I hope that helps, I am up to 500 844E routers now with 2 failures, one was fried, other 2.4Ghz quit. Best router I have ever used. From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 10:25 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory, thanks for the info. I think a forum like this one is helpful when dealing with smaller operators like WISPs, you get some leverage by communicating with a bunch of us simultaneously, rather than having to answer the same questions over and over. 1) When you say Support Cloud is your next Gen product set that replaces CC+, how should we interpret that? Is Consumer Connect deprecated and we should only be looking at EME/DME? Or is Support Cloud something you are moving toward in some future timeframe but we should still think in terms of using CC+ today and migrating in the future? 2) Not sure I follow the distinction between EME and DME. Is this just an upgrade, like you could start out on DME, and later decide if you want to upgrade at a higher per sub per month rate and get the additional features? Or is this more of a decision that you make upfront? 3) Do we need to deploy any servers in our network to use the 844E and take advantage of all the features, or is this all a cloud service available from Calix for a fee? I was assuming the latter, but I’m not clear on this point. 4) Do we need to integrate with other billing/operations systems like Powercode or Sonar, or can this be done manually via the Calix cloud services? 5) With DME, do customers get a web portal where they can view analytics and make config changes like port forwarding and QoS for their devices? I could only find information on the embedded web interface in the 844E itself, and that is very basic stuff, not competitive with what customers get with a Netgear Nighthawk or a Google WiFi system, so not going to impress anyone. 6) With the direct sales model and cloud management, there are some signup steps needed to even be able to order some eval units and try them out. Are there other barriers to getting started, like minimum volume commitments? Basically, anything that says if you’re not going to use at least X of these total or per year, Calix is not the right solution for you? Fiber operators are in a different situation, if they are building out to 1,000 locations and expect a 50% take rate, they are going to need 500 routers because every customer is getting one, just like a cable operator where every customer gets a residential or business gateway that also acts as the cable modem. Whereas a WISP faces a decision whether to require that every customer get one and absorb the cost, or to offer it as an optional upgrade and charge a fee for the additional performance and features. Also what to do with existing customers who may have a customer owned router or another brand of leased/managed router like a Mikrotik or Cambium or TP-Link. If we go the route of optional upgrade, then we are only guessing at the take rate. That will also depend on demographics and pricing. My customer base tilts toward miserly and low tech, and the more tech savvy and upscale customers like to shop for their own tech toys. That said, if we decided to eat the cost and offer a free 844E and 804 Mesh units as needed, few people are going to turn down fancy free stuff. (Sorry, that question rambled a bit. Or a lot.) From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Cory Polman Sent: Tuesday, November 20,
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
844E and the ancillary programs that support its use. From: Cory Polman Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:54 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? We could do that…on support cloud correct? Cory Polman-Calix 612-360-1426-Cell cory.pol...@calix.com From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:49 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Do a webinar for us. From: Cory Polman Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:04 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Morning Ken & All! I’m trying to follow all the questions…so I’ll do my best. Let me know where I can help and we’ll see what we can do to help plug the holes. Sometimes there is a lot of info on the Calix site and it can be hard to locate too…make sure you have a log in to get to the engineering documentation. So on the Cloud/CC+ side. Think of Support Cloud as our next Gen product set. So it replaces CC+. However, there are two flavors of Support cloud – EME (Experience Management Addition) and DME (Device Management). So DME is = CC+ with some new features and functionality. If I recall the pricing is in line with CC+. EME is the upgraded version, with Smart Check/flow per sub/tie into the billing system…. Call avoidance reports…etc. Anyway, we can give you a demo of both so you can compare and see. EME has some really great features especially if you have nontechnical folks/of after hour call support desk taking calls. Both the cloud tools support TR 69, some TR 181/TR 98 as well based upon what device your using for a GTWY/Router….with the 804/844E/G/GE we can get some really great analytics, but other devices we can pull some of that info from as well. As far as set up…its very straight forward on both the 844E and 804/Cloud items. We’ll help walk you through and get things going. If you want some help on the marketing materials for managed wifi we have been helping folks with Marketing Consultations as well. Below is a link with some videos/info from folks on here as well. Lastly – Let me know how I can help/where you are at and I’ll be sure to get a call set up. I’d be happy to help heard our folks if they are not getting back to you. Just let me know. My contact info is below…Cory https://www.calix.com/solutions/service-providers/wisps.html https://www.calix.com/platforms/calix_cloud.html Cory Polman-Calix 612-360-1426-Cell cory.pol...@calix.com From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:25 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that your people will see, and that your customers will see. Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very confusing. Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the documentation totally unhelpful. From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory is about as official as it gets. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwa
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
We could do that…on support cloud correct? Cory Polman-Calix 612-360-1426-Cell cory.pol...@calix.com<mailto:cory.pol...@calix.com> From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:49 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Do a webinar for us. From: Cory Polman Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:04 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Morning Ken & All! I’m trying to follow all the questions…so I’ll do my best. Let me know where I can help and we’ll see what we can do to help plug the holes. Sometimes there is a lot of info on the Calix site and it can be hard to locate too…make sure you have a log in to get to the engineering documentation. So on the Cloud/CC+ side. Think of Support Cloud as our next Gen product set. So it replaces CC+. However, there are two flavors of Support cloud – EME (Experience Management Addition) and DME (Device Management). So DME is = CC+ with some new features and functionality. If I recall the pricing is in line with CC+. EME is the upgraded version, with Smart Check/flow per sub/tie into the billing system…. Call avoidance reports…etc. Anyway, we can give you a demo of both so you can compare and see. EME has some really great features especially if you have nontechnical folks/of after hour call support desk taking calls. Both the cloud tools support TR 69, some TR 181/TR 98 as well based upon what device your using for a GTWY/Router….with the 804/844E/G/GE we can get some really great analytics, but other devices we can pull some of that info from as well. As far as set up…its very straight forward on both the 844E and 804/Cloud items. We’ll help walk you through and get things going. If you want some help on the marketing materials for managed wifi we have been helping folks with Marketing Consultations as well. Below is a link with some videos/info from folks on here as well. Lastly – Let me know how I can help/where you are at and I’ll be sure to get a call set up. I’d be happy to help heard our folks if they are not getting back to you. Just let me know. My contact info is below…Cory https://www.calix.com/solutions/service-providers/wisps.html https://www.calix.com/platforms/calix_cloud.html Cory Polman-Calix 612-360-1426-Cell cory.pol...@calix.com<mailto:cory.pol...@calix.com> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:25 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that your people will see, and that your customers will see. Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very confusing. Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the documentation totally unhelpful. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory is about as official as it gets. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficul
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Do a webinar for us. From: Cory Polman Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:04 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Morning Ken & All! I’m trying to follow all the questions…so I’ll do my best. Let me know where I can help and we’ll see what we can do to help plug the holes. Sometimes there is a lot of info on the Calix site and it can be hard to locate too…make sure you have a log in to get to the engineering documentation. So on the Cloud/CC+ side. Think of Support Cloud as our next Gen product set. So it replaces CC+. However, there are two flavors of Support cloud – EME (Experience Management Addition) and DME (Device Management). So DME is = CC+ with some new features and functionality. If I recall the pricing is in line with CC+. EME is the upgraded version, with Smart Check/flow per sub/tie into the billing system…. Call avoidance reports…etc. Anyway, we can give you a demo of both so you can compare and see. EME has some really great features especially if you have nontechnical folks/of after hour call support desk taking calls. Both the cloud tools support TR 69, some TR 181/TR 98 as well based upon what device your using for a GTWY/Router….with the 804/844E/G/GE we can get some really great analytics, but other devices we can pull some of that info from as well. As far as set up…its very straight forward on both the 844E and 804/Cloud items. We’ll help walk you through and get things going. If you want some help on the marketing materials for managed wifi we have been helping folks with Marketing Consultations as well. Below is a link with some videos/info from folks on here as well. Lastly – Let me know how I can help/where you are at and I’ll be sure to get a call set up. I’d be happy to help heard our folks if they are not getting back to you. Just let me know. My contact info is below…Cory https://www.calix.com/solutions/service-providers/wisps.html https://www.calix.com/platforms/calix_cloud.html Cory Polman-Calix 612-360-1426-Cell cory.pol...@calix.com From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:25 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that your people will see, and that your customers will see. Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very confusing. Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the documentation totally unhelpful. From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory is about as official as it gets. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t k
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Morning Ken & All! I’m trying to follow all the questions…so I’ll do my best. Let me know where I can help and we’ll see what we can do to help plug the holes. Sometimes there is a lot of info on the Calix site and it can be hard to locate too…make sure you have a log in to get to the engineering documentation. So on the Cloud/CC+ side. Think of Support Cloud as our next Gen product set. So it replaces CC+. However, there are two flavors of Support cloud – EME (Experience Management Addition) and DME (Device Management). So DME is = CC+ with some new features and functionality. If I recall the pricing is in line with CC+. EME is the upgraded version, with Smart Check/flow per sub/tie into the billing system…. Call avoidance reports…etc. Anyway, we can give you a demo of both so you can compare and see. EME has some really great features especially if you have nontechnical folks/of after hour call support desk taking calls. Both the cloud tools support TR 69, some TR 181/TR 98 as well based upon what device your using for a GTWY/Router….with the 804/844E/G/GE we can get some really great analytics, but other devices we can pull some of that info from as well. As far as set up…its very straight forward on both the 844E and 804/Cloud items. We’ll help walk you through and get things going. If you want some help on the marketing materials for managed wifi we have been helping folks with Marketing Consultations as well. Below is a link with some videos/info from folks on here as well. Lastly – Let me know how I can help/where you are at and I’ll be sure to get a call set up. I’d be happy to help heard our folks if they are not getting back to you. Just let me know. My contact info is below…Cory https://www.calix.com/solutions/service-providers/wisps.html https://www.calix.com/platforms/calix_cloud.html Cory Polman-Calix 612-360-1426-Cell cory.pol...@calix.com<mailto:cory.pol...@calix.com> From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:25 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that your people will see, and that your customers will see. Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very confusing. Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the documentation totally unhelpful. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory is about as official as it gets. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
The SR400ac has mesh wifi feature now using a second one as a wired AP. Not quite the same as the calix wireless mesh extender though. On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 11:36 PM Charles Boening +1 > > > > We went with SmartRG back when it was ClearAccess (just over 10 years > now). IMO they have the nicest ACS out there. Couple that with their new > analytics <https://www.smartrg.com/home-analytics> and it’s a nice win. > > > > We are deploying the SR555ac <https://www.smartrg.com/sr555ac> as a > single device for Ethernet, xDSL and bonded xDSL. > > > > I just wish SmartRG had a nice whole home wireless setup. Something where > we could deploy range extenders or whole home wireless that worked with the > router to keep SSID and security in sync. I heard they were coming out > with something this year but haven’t seen it yet. > > > > SmartRG is looking at TR-143 for FCC testing. They say they should have > something in Q2 2019. > > > > > > > Charlie > > > > > > __ > > > > *Charles Boening* > > *Network Manager* > > 800-858-2399 | Office > > charl...@calore.net > > > > www.cot.net | Find us on Facebook > <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cal-Ore/205066716227707> > > __ > > *Cal-Ore* | *Local. Trusted. Professional.* > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of * Chris Fabien > *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 7:10 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? > > > > EXTERNAL EMAIL > Use caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or sharing sensitive > information. > > Ken > > > > We evaluated about 8 routers a couple years ago wanting a solid managed > wifi offering. Calix GigaCenter 844E and SmartRG SR400AC were standouts > from the rest of the lot which included cambium, ready net, ignitenet and a > few consumer routers for comparison. Between the two the 844E had slightly > higher 5ghz speeds but the 2.4 range was better on SmartRG. > > > > Ultimately we decided smartrg was a better fit for us from how they priced > the management platform and also the Calix required a DHCP option to set a > provisioning URL which our powercode BMU was unable to provide. So that > broke the zero touch config. SmartRG routers phone home to a redirect > server and they maintain a list if what MACs were sold to who so your units > end up in your device manager system without any input from your network. > Works great. > > > > Overall we are happy with them. The Smartrg "home analytics" is TR161 > based where it logs wifi signal and usage info from each device in the > home. The Calix solution was more of a traffic analysis system to sort > usage by application. I am not sure if it ties that to a device or not. > Essentially when the customer calls up asking why was Netflix buffering > last night, SmartRG gives you the info to say, dads laptop with a poor wifi > signal was doing some kind of large transfer and hogging all the Wifi > airtime, while calix gives you the answer, some device was doing a windows > update and hogging all the bandwidth. At least that was my take on it 2 > years ago. > > > > I've also found the SmartRG people more accessible to work with. Calix had > a serious superiority complex attitude problem. That extended to their > pricing. Actually the 844E was very competitive but anything with GPON in > it they priced as if it were solid gold. It's like they do not realize GPON > is 15? Years old technology and should be a commodity priced thing like > gigabit ethernet switches. Calix GPON doesnt work any faster than my cheap > chinese GPON stuff although there are some bells and whistles you don't get > with ZTE. However my customers dont pay me extra for the GPON shelf having > bells and whistles. > > > > So, that's how we ended up with ZTE GPON and SmartRG router behind it. > Although SmartRG is supposedly releasing a SR900? Which has an SFP WAN port > with several options for wan interface ( GPON, AE BiDi, VDSL, gigE) > > > > Hope that's helpful info > > Chris > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 9:25 PM Ken Hohhof > I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 > and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a > conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix > site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, > basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a > step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the G
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
+1 We went with SmartRG back when it was ClearAccess (just over 10 years now). IMO they have the nicest ACS out there. Couple that with their new analytics<https://www.smartrg.com/home-analytics> and it’s a nice win. We are deploying the SR555ac<https://www.smartrg.com/sr555ac> as a single device for Ethernet, xDSL and bonded xDSL. I just wish SmartRG had a nice whole home wireless setup. Something where we could deploy range extenders or whole home wireless that worked with the router to keep SSID and security in sync. I heard they were coming out with something this year but haven’t seen it yet. SmartRG is looking at TR-143 for FCC testing. They say they should have something in Q2 2019. Charlie __ Charles Boening Network Manager 800-858-2399 | Office charl...@calore.net<mailto:charl...@calore.net> www.cot.net<http://www.cot.net/> | Find us on Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cal-Ore/205066716227707> __ Cal-Ore | Local. Trusted. Professional. From: AF On Behalf Of Chris Fabien Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:10 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? EXTERNAL EMAIL Use caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or sharing sensitive information. Ken We evaluated about 8 routers a couple years ago wanting a solid managed wifi offering. Calix GigaCenter 844E and SmartRG SR400AC were standouts from the rest of the lot which included cambium, ready net, ignitenet and a few consumer routers for comparison. Between the two the 844E had slightly higher 5ghz speeds but the 2.4 range was better on SmartRG. Ultimately we decided smartrg was a better fit for us from how they priced the management platform and also the Calix required a DHCP option to set a provisioning URL which our powercode BMU was unable to provide. So that broke the zero touch config. SmartRG routers phone home to a redirect server and they maintain a list if what MACs were sold to who so your units end up in your device manager system without any input from your network. Works great. Overall we are happy with them. The Smartrg "home analytics" is TR161 based where it logs wifi signal and usage info from each device in the home. The Calix solution was more of a traffic analysis system to sort usage by application. I am not sure if it ties that to a device or not. Essentially when the customer calls up asking why was Netflix buffering last night, SmartRG gives you the info to say, dads laptop with a poor wifi signal was doing some kind of large transfer and hogging all the Wifi airtime, while calix gives you the answer, some device was doing a windows update and hogging all the bandwidth. At least that was my take on it 2 years ago. I've also found the SmartRG people more accessible to work with. Calix had a serious superiority complex attitude problem. That extended to their pricing. Actually the 844E was very competitive but anything with GPON in it they priced as if it were solid gold. It's like they do not realize GPON is 15? Years old technology and should be a commodity priced thing like gigabit ethernet switches. Calix GPON doesnt work any faster than my cheap chinese GPON stuff although there are some bells and whistles you don't get with ZTE. However my customers dont pay me extra for the GPON shelf having bells and whistles. So, that's how we ended up with ZTE GPON and SmartRG router behind it. Although SmartRG is supposedly releasing a SR900? Which has an SFP WAN port with several options for wan interface ( GPON, AE BiDi, VDSL, gigE) Hope that's helpful info Chris On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 9:25 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> wrote: I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that your people will see, and that your customers will see. Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very confusing. Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some d
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
onnect, are they >> the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, >> and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the >> features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very >> confusing. >> >> >> >> Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab >> and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. >> But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of >> the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands >> wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the >> documentation totally unhelpful. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com >> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? >> >> >> >> Cory is about as official as it gets. >> >> >> >> *From:* Adam Moffett >> >> *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM >> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? >> >> >> >> I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and >> managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't >> made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. >> >> On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> >> Actually this is the beginning. >> >> >> >> *From:* Ken Hohhof >> >> *Sent:* Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM >> >> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' >> >> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? >> >> >> >> For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: >> >> >> >> I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica >> 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with >> my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. >> >> >> >> Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% >> smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for >> analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you >> can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some >> Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with >> APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m >> not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 >> server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. >> >> >> >> Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with >> Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just >> very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated >> to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the >> devices and cloud management? >> >> >> >> I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from >> Calix, or give up. >> -- >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Ken We evaluated about 8 routers a couple years ago wanting a solid managed wifi offering. Calix GigaCenter 844E and SmartRG SR400AC were standouts from the rest of the lot which included cambium, ready net, ignitenet and a few consumer routers for comparison. Between the two the 844E had slightly higher 5ghz speeds but the 2.4 range was better on SmartRG. Ultimately we decided smartrg was a better fit for us from how they priced the management platform and also the Calix required a DHCP option to set a provisioning URL which our powercode BMU was unable to provide. So that broke the zero touch config. SmartRG routers phone home to a redirect server and they maintain a list if what MACs were sold to who so your units end up in your device manager system without any input from your network. Works great. Overall we are happy with them. The Smartrg "home analytics" is TR161 based where it logs wifi signal and usage info from each device in the home. The Calix solution was more of a traffic analysis system to sort usage by application. I am not sure if it ties that to a device or not. Essentially when the customer calls up asking why was Netflix buffering last night, SmartRG gives you the info to say, dads laptop with a poor wifi signal was doing some kind of large transfer and hogging all the Wifi airtime, while calix gives you the answer, some device was doing a windows update and hogging all the bandwidth. At least that was my take on it 2 years ago. I've also found the SmartRG people more accessible to work with. Calix had a serious superiority complex attitude problem. That extended to their pricing. Actually the 844E was very competitive but anything with GPON in it they priced as if it were solid gold. It's like they do not realize GPON is 15? Years old technology and should be a commodity priced thing like gigabit ethernet switches. Calix GPON doesnt work any faster than my cheap chinese GPON stuff although there are some bells and whistles you don't get with ZTE. However my customers dont pay me extra for the GPON shelf having bells and whistles. So, that's how we ended up with ZTE GPON and SmartRG router behind it. Although SmartRG is supposedly releasing a SR900? Which has an SFP WAN port with several options for wan interface ( GPON, AE BiDi, VDSL, gigE) Hope that's helpful info Chris On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 9:25 PM Ken Hohhof I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 > and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a > conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix > site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, > basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a > step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that > your people will see, and that your customers will see. > > > > Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using > Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they > the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, > and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the > features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very > confusing. > > > > Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab > and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. > But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of > the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands > wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the > documentation totally unhelpful. > > > > > > *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com > *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? > > > > Cory is about as official as it gets. > > > > *From:* Adam Moffett > > *Sent:* Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM > > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? > > > > I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and > managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't > made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. > > On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > > Actually this is the beginning. > > > > *From:* Ken Hohhof > > *Sent:* Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM > > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > > *Subject:* [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? > > > > For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: > > > > I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmeric
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
I think Mike's just in Naperville, so he's easy to chase down. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ken Hohhof" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:24:32 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that your people will see, and that your customers will see. Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very confusing. Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the documentation totally unhelpful. From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory is about as official as it gets. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
I should add that I talked to Mike Carpinelli at WISPAmerica in March 2016 and he has been returning my emails and had actually set up a time for a conference. But as I plowed through all the documentation on the Calix site, I couldn’t find any of the basic information most vendors give you, basically a getting started guide. What are you going to need, a step-by-step guide to hooking it all up, and screenshots of the GUI that your people will see, and that your customers will see. Furthermore, from the discussion here, it seems even WISPs that are using Calix products aren’t clear on Calix Cloud vs Consumer Connect, are they the same thing, are they different. It seems like one is too expensive, and the other has the secret sauce and without it you’re missing half the features. Or maybe they are different names for the same thing. Very confusing. Originally I thought I just needed to order a handful of devices for lab and beta testing, and that we’d learn through the hands-on experience. But I backed off when I found the documentation wasn’t telling me any of the things I needed to know. Clearly just getting some devices in my hands wasn’t going to resolve the knowledge gap, if I was finding the documentation totally unhelpful. From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:00 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cory is about as official as it gets. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Cory is about as official as it gets. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 4:28 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
I would love to see "official" answers. I'm looking at routers and managed WiFi for an FTTH build passing around 10,000 households. I haven't made any commitments yet, so I'd be willing to talk about Calix. On 11/19/2018 6:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Actually this is the beginning. *From:* Ken Hohhof *Sent:* Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' *Subject:* [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Actually this is the beginning. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Reposting so Cory can see the beginning of the thread. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:38 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? So do you just run them standalone like any other router, managing them via the embedded web interface? Does this mean the customer doesn’t get a portal the tells them their usage and that Johnny has been downloading a Playstation game for the past 12 hours and hogging all the bandwidth and other customer self-help stuff like that? Or am I imagining that was a feature? Just an embedded interface that shows the MAC addresses of all the WiFi devices and their signal strength and modulation is no big deal, most consumer routers can do that now, lots of them have apps for your phone now. From: AF On Behalf Of Joe Novak Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:11 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? +1 for Consumer connect being expensive. There is several other TR69 complaint router management vendors, that do have direct support for the Gigacenter. Affinegy.com is one we looked at, RNControl(ReadyNet) has the ability to also do a 'bring your own router' to their TR-069 platform. There is at least one more that had a setup too, I just can't think of the name.. The thing I like about the Calix, which we had trouble with in other platforms, is stability. The damn things just WORK. Zyxel, Readynet, Cambium, all had weird problems where after a week or two they could no longer be managed and required a reboot. Wifi issues. I never had the same problems with the Calix at home or at work. I ran it for about a month at home before we started deploying customers. Readynet/Zyxel/Cambium had some varying degree of annoyances, if it was either management locking up, or wifi disappearing - device locking up for no reason? Calix is the only one that lasted a month without crashing in some way shape or form. I don't really have the time or want to track down vendors problems. Not to say any of the vendors have terrible support, but there isn't enough time in the day. We are also using Calix in our FTTH, but the whole pushing people to use consumer connect rubbed us the wrong way too. Would rather put in a dumb ONT and bridge it with a 844E behind it. Joe On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:55 PM Carl Peterson wrote: We don't use the calix cloud (consumer connect or whatever its called these days) We do run CMS, but I'm not using it with our 844GEs. It thought this was possible, but they are really pushing people to pay them for consumer connect. We do pay for support which includes CMS and they can be pretty arbitrary on pricing. I think they just make it up as they go. We run a lot of GPON on E7-2s with 844G and GE ONTs. Easy to allow remote access from the E7-2 for management if needed. (We run 844GEs in active ethernet fiber MDUS to start, then move them over to GPON once we get fiber to the building or get enough customers in the building to justify an E7-2 and GPON card in the building). In Active ethernet mode, they are kind of a PITA. They will randomly lose their WAN VLAN settings and go back to their smart activate config. I have 844Es in the lab, (shout out to Calix for sending them to me for free for my lab), and used one at home as a test router for awhile. Big drawback of the 844E is that their cloud is expensive and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. Routers do seem to work better then CnPilots. We are still using CnPilots for our coper MDU and CSM customer. I prefer the performance of the 844E, but their cloud is too expensive, at least for us (other people have ball parked much better pricing then they quote us), and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. You can run them just like a regular router, except that you have a customer side interface and a provider side interface. You can create a golden config file and load it onto all your routers if you have defaults you want. They do support tr69 so you can roll them into your own management solution later if you like but you don't have to use it. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:52 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
I have had similar experiences - they just don’t seem to care about selling the product.We had Calix and Adtran in here before buying our last OLT. Specifically told Calix we were making a decision in 2 weeks and needed pricing. Two weeks came and went, we issued the PO to Adtran and had it in hand before Calix got back to us. It’s not the first time Calix did that. Might be a great product but I’m not going to beg them to sell it to me. Mark > On Nov 19, 2018, at 10:16 AM, ja...@remotelylocated.com wrote: > > I have found the Calix folks less than useful. I spoke with a couple at > wispapalooza and they seemed less than interested to the point I have not > heard from anyone since. At this point cambium will continue to get the > business. > > Jason Wilson > Remotely Located > Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places. > 530-651-1736 Office > 530-748-9608 Cell > www.remotelylocated.com <http://www.remotelylocated.com/> > > > On Nov 19, 2018, at 6:10 AM, Craig Schmaderer <mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com>> wrote: > >> 844E is the best home router ever in my 16 years doing this. At 500 with 2 >> failures, one was fried other was 2.4ghz quit both were replaced RMA. I >> absolutely hate paying per customer for stuff, it is actually the only thing >> I use that I have to pay that, but it creates almost zero trouble tickets >> for our customers and my secretary actually solves 95% of the calls because >> she can use it. >> >> >> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on >> behalf of Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> >> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 5:17 PM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? >> >> the calix cloud is the secret sauce that makes the wi-fi experience the >> best. too many features to list but the self heal is the best. it's >> constantly scanning the environment and will change the channels as >> necessary. >> >> if you are using the router without the cloud you are missing over 50% of >> the features. >> >> I'd contact the calix rep for your region and request a demo unit. >> >> -sean >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:52 AM Ken Hohhof > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: >> For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: >> >> >> >> I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica >> 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with >> my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. >> >> >> >> Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% >> smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for >> analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you >> can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some >> Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs >> and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not >> even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 >> server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. >> >> >> >> Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium >> cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very >> confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to >> incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices >> and cloud management? >> >> >> >> I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from >> Calix, or give up. >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
The Calix road show in Vegas is where you find all the right people. From: ja...@remotelylocated.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:16 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? I have found the Calix folks less than useful. I spoke with a couple at wispapalooza and they seemed less than interested to the point I have not heard from anyone since. At this point cambium will continue to get the business. Jason Wilson Remotely Located Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places. 530-651-1736 Office 530-748-9608 Cell www.remotelylocated.com On Nov 19, 2018, at 6:10 AM, Craig Schmaderer wrote: 844E is the best home router ever in my 16 years doing this. At 500 with 2 failures, one was fried other was 2.4ghz quit both were replaced RMA. I absolutely hate paying per customer for stuff, it is actually the only thing I use that I have to pay that, but it creates almost zero trouble tickets for our customers and my secretary actually solves 95% of the calls because she can use it. -- From: AF on behalf of Sean Heskett Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 5:17 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? the calix cloud is the secret sauce that makes the wi-fi experience the best. too many features to list but the self heal is the best. it's constantly scanning the environment and will change the channels as necessary. if you are using the router without the cloud you are missing over 50% of the features. I'd contact the calix rep for your region and request a demo unit. -sean On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:52 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
the calix cloud is the secret sauce that makes the wi-fi experience the best. too many features to list but the self heal is the best. it's constantly scanning the environment and will change the channels as necessary. if you are using the router without the cloud you are missing over 50% of the features. I'd contact the calix rep for your region and request a demo unit. -sean On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 8:52 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: > For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: > > > > I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica > 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with > my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. > > > > Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% > smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for > analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you > can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some > Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with > APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m > not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 > server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. > > > > Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with > Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just > very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated > to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the > devices and cloud management? > > > > I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from > Calix, or give up. > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Have you ever considered starting a wisp? From: Adam Moffett Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 2:50 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Seems like everybody wants a buck or two for all of our customers these days. I'll have to figure out something you all want that I can charge a buck or two per customer for. On 11/16/2018 4:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: They want to host a bunch of stuff and get something like a buck or two per customer for doing so. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 2:32 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Well, there you go, despite spending a bunch of time with the Calix documentation, I don’t understand the difference. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:16 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cloud is not a good value in my opinion. Consumer connect is pretty good. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Seems like everybody wants a buck or two for all of our customers these days. I'll have to figure out something you all want that I can charge a buck or two per customer for. On 11/16/2018 4:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: They want to host a bunch of stuff and get something like a buck or two per customer for doing so. *From:* Ken Hohhof *Sent:* Friday, November 16, 2018 2:32 PM *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Well, there you go, despite spending a bunch of time with the Calix documentation, I don’t understand the difference. *From:* AF *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com *Sent:* Friday, November 16, 2018 3:16 PM *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cloud is not a good value in my opinion. Consumer connect is pretty good. *From:*Ken Hohhof *Sent:*Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM *To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' *Subject:*[AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
They want to host a bunch of stuff and get something like a buck or two per customer for doing so. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 2:32 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Well, there you go, despite spending a bunch of time with the Calix documentation, I don’t understand the difference. From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:16 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cloud is not a good value in my opinion. Consumer connect is pretty good. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Well, there you go, despite spending a bunch of time with the Calix documentation, I don’t understand the difference. From: AF On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:16 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? Cloud is not a good value in my opinion. Consumer connect is pretty good. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. _ -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
Cloud is not a good value in my opinion. Consumer connect is pretty good. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:50 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
I've been wondering where to find a TR-69 ACS that isn't awful. RNControl was at least intuitive to use. I had assumed it was only for ReadyNet's routers, but I guess I'll have to talk to them about "bringing our own router". If I talk to Affinegy will I cry when I find out what it costs? On 11/16/2018 2:11 PM, Joe Novak wrote: +1 for Consumer connect being expensive. There is several other TR69 complaint router management vendors, that do have direct support for the Gigacenter. Affinegy.com is one we looked at, RNControl(ReadyNet) has the ability to also do a 'bring your own router' to their TR-069 platform. There is at least one more that had a setup too, I just can't think of the name.. The thing I like about the Calix, which we had trouble with in other platforms, is stability. The damn things just WORK. Zyxel, Readynet, Cambium, all had weird problems where after a week or two they could no longer be managed and required a reboot. Wifi issues. I never had the same problems with the Calix at home or at work. I ran it for about a month at home before we started deploying customers. Readynet/Zyxel/Cambium had some varying degree of annoyances, if it was either management locking up, or wifi disappearing - device locking up for no reason? Calix is the only one that lasted a month without crashing in some way shape or form. I don't really have the time or want to track down vendors problems. Not to say any of the vendors have terrible support, but there isn't enough time in the day. We are also using Calix in our FTTH, but the whole pushing people to use consumer connect rubbed us the wrong way too. Would rather put in a dumb ONT and bridge it with a 844E behind it. Joe On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:55 PM Carl Peterson mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote: We don't use the calix cloud (consumer connect or whatever its called these days) We do run CMS, but I'm not using it with our 844GEs. It thought this was possible, but they are really pushing people to pay them for consumer connect. We do pay for support which includes CMS and they can be pretty arbitrary on pricing. I think they just make it up as they go. We run a lot of GPON on E7-2s with 844G and GE ONTs. Easy to allow remote access from the E7-2 for management if needed. (We run 844GEs in active ethernet fiber MDUS to start, then move them over to GPON once we get fiber to the building or get enough customers in the building to justify an E7-2 and GPON card in the building). In Active ethernet mode, they are kind of a PITA. They will randomly lose their WAN VLAN settings and go back to their smart activate config. I have 844Es in the lab, (shout out to Calix for sending them to me for free for my lab), and used one at home as a test router for awhile. Big drawback of the 844E is that their cloud is expensive and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. Routers do seem to work better then CnPilots. We are still using CnPilots for our coper MDU and CSM customer. I prefer the performance of the 844E, but their cloud is too expensive, at least for us (other people have ball parked much better pricing then they quote us), and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. You can run them just like a regular router, except that you have a customer side interface and a provider side interface. You can create a golden config file and load it onto all your routers if you have defaults you want. They do support tr69 so you can roll them into your own management solution later if you like but you don't have to use it. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:52 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote: For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
So do you just run them standalone like any other router, managing them via the embedded web interface? Does this mean the customer doesn’t get a portal the tells them their usage and that Johnny has been downloading a Playstation game for the past 12 hours and hogging all the bandwidth and other customer self-help stuff like that? Or am I imagining that was a feature? Just an embedded interface that shows the MAC addresses of all the WiFi devices and their signal strength and modulation is no big deal, most consumer routers can do that now, lots of them have apps for your phone now. From: AF On Behalf Of Joe Novak Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:11 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement? +1 for Consumer connect being expensive. There is several other TR69 complaint router management vendors, that do have direct support for the Gigacenter. Affinegy.com is one we looked at, RNControl(ReadyNet) has the ability to also do a 'bring your own router' to their TR-069 platform. There is at least one more that had a setup too, I just can't think of the name.. The thing I like about the Calix, which we had trouble with in other platforms, is stability. The damn things just WORK. Zyxel, Readynet, Cambium, all had weird problems where after a week or two they could no longer be managed and required a reboot. Wifi issues. I never had the same problems with the Calix at home or at work. I ran it for about a month at home before we started deploying customers. Readynet/Zyxel/Cambium had some varying degree of annoyances, if it was either management locking up, or wifi disappearing - device locking up for no reason? Calix is the only one that lasted a month without crashing in some way shape or form. I don't really have the time or want to track down vendors problems. Not to say any of the vendors have terrible support, but there isn't enough time in the day. We are also using Calix in our FTTH, but the whole pushing people to use consumer connect rubbed us the wrong way too. Would rather put in a dumb ONT and bridge it with a 844E behind it. Joe On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:55 PM Carl Peterson mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> > wrote: We don't use the calix cloud (consumer connect or whatever its called these days) We do run CMS, but I'm not using it with our 844GEs. It thought this was possible, but they are really pushing people to pay them for consumer connect. We do pay for support which includes CMS and they can be pretty arbitrary on pricing. I think they just make it up as they go. We run a lot of GPON on E7-2s with 844G and GE ONTs. Easy to allow remote access from the E7-2 for management if needed. (We run 844GEs in active ethernet fiber MDUS to start, then move them over to GPON once we get fiber to the building or get enough customers in the building to justify an E7-2 and GPON card in the building). In Active ethernet mode, they are kind of a PITA. They will randomly lose their WAN VLAN settings and go back to their smart activate config. I have 844Es in the lab, (shout out to Calix for sending them to me for free for my lab), and used one at home as a test router for awhile. Big drawback of the 844E is that their cloud is expensive and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. Routers do seem to work better then CnPilots. We are still using CnPilots for our coper MDU and CSM customer. I prefer the performance of the 844E, but their cloud is too expensive, at least for us (other people have ball parked much better pricing then they quote us), and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. You can run them just like a regular router, except that you have a customer side interface and a provider side interface. You can create a golden config file and load it onto all your routers if you have defaults you want. They do support tr69 so you can roll them into your own management solution later if you like but you don't have to use it. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:52 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote: For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m not even clear on whether we need to
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
+1 for Consumer connect being expensive. There is several other TR69 complaint router management vendors, that do have direct support for the Gigacenter. Affinegy.com is one we looked at, RNControl(ReadyNet) has the ability to also do a 'bring your own router' to their TR-069 platform. There is at least one more that had a setup too, I just can't think of the name.. The thing I like about the Calix, which we had trouble with in other platforms, is stability. The damn things just WORK. Zyxel, Readynet, Cambium, all had weird problems where after a week or two they could no longer be managed and required a reboot. Wifi issues. I never had the same problems with the Calix at home or at work. I ran it for about a month at home before we started deploying customers. Readynet/Zyxel/Cambium had some varying degree of annoyances, if it was either management locking up, or wifi disappearing - device locking up for no reason? Calix is the only one that lasted a month without crashing in some way shape or form. I don't really have the time or want to track down vendors problems. Not to say any of the vendors have terrible support, but there isn't enough time in the day. We are also using Calix in our FTTH, but the whole pushing people to use consumer connect rubbed us the wrong way too. Would rather put in a dumb ONT and bridge it with a 844E behind it. Joe On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 12:55 PM Carl Peterson wrote: > We don't use the calix cloud (consumer connect or whatever its called > these days) > > We do run CMS, but I'm not using it with our 844GEs. It thought this was > possible, but they are really pushing people to pay them for consumer > connect. We do pay for support which includes CMS and they can be pretty > arbitrary on pricing. I think they just make it up as they go. > > We run a lot of GPON on E7-2s with 844G and GE ONTs. Easy to allow remote > access from the E7-2 for management if needed. (We run 844GEs in active > ethernet fiber MDUS to start, then move them over to GPON once we get fiber > to the building or get enough customers in the building to justify an E7-2 > and GPON card in the building). In Active ethernet mode, they are kind of > a PITA. They will randomly lose their WAN VLAN settings and go back to > their smart activate config. > > I have 844Es in the lab, (shout out to Calix for sending them to me for > free for my lab), and used one at home as a test router for awhile. Big > drawback of the 844E is that their cloud is expensive and there doesn't > seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. Routers do seem to > work better then CnPilots. We are still using CnPilots for our coper MDU > and CSM customer. I prefer the performance of the 844E, but their cloud is > too expensive, at least for us (other people have ball parked much better > pricing then they quote us), and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap > on-site version like CnMaestro. > > You can run them just like a regular router, except that you have a > customer side interface and a provider side interface. > > You can create a golden config file and load it onto all your routers if > you have defaults you want. > > They do support tr69 so you can roll them into your own management > solution later if you like but you don't have to use it. > > > > On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:52 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: > >> For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: >> >> >> >> I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica >> 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with >> my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. >> >> >> >> Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% >> smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for >> analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you >> can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some >> Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with >> APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m >> not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 >> server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. >> >> >> >> Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with >> Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just >> very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated >> to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the >> devices and cloud management? >> >> >> >> I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from >> Calix, or give up. >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > > -- > > Carl Peterson > > *PORT NETWORKS* > > 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > (410) 637-3707 > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com >
Re: [AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
We don't use the calix cloud (consumer connect or whatever its called these days) We do run CMS, but I'm not using it with our 844GEs. It thought this was possible, but they are really pushing people to pay them for consumer connect. We do pay for support which includes CMS and they can be pretty arbitrary on pricing. I think they just make it up as they go. We run a lot of GPON on E7-2s with 844G and GE ONTs. Easy to allow remote access from the E7-2 for management if needed. (We run 844GEs in active ethernet fiber MDUS to start, then move them over to GPON once we get fiber to the building or get enough customers in the building to justify an E7-2 and GPON card in the building). In Active ethernet mode, they are kind of a PITA. They will randomly lose their WAN VLAN settings and go back to their smart activate config. I have 844Es in the lab, (shout out to Calix for sending them to me for free for my lab), and used one at home as a test router for awhile. Big drawback of the 844E is that their cloud is expensive and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. Routers do seem to work better then CnPilots. We are still using CnPilots for our coper MDU and CSM customer. I prefer the performance of the 844E, but their cloud is too expensive, at least for us (other people have ball parked much better pricing then they quote us), and there doesn't seem to be a free/cheap on-site version like CnMaestro. You can run them just like a regular router, except that you have a customer side interface and a provider side interface. You can create a golden config file and load it onto all your routers if you have defaults you want. They do support tr69 so you can roll them into your own management solution later if you like but you don't have to use it. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:52 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: > For those of you who’ve successfully deployed Calix: > > > > I’ve been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica > 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I’m at the starting line of a marathon with > my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. > > > > Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% > smarter. I don’t know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for > analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don’t know if you > can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some > Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with > APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don’t have. I’m > not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 > server, or if that’s all a cloud service hosted by Calix. > > > > Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with > Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just > very confusing or I’m being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated > to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the > devices and cloud management? > > > > I’m trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from > Calix, or give up. > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Calix Gigacenters - how difficult to implement?
For those of you who've successfully deployed Calix: I've been wanting to do something with the 844E and 804 since WISPAmerica 2.5 years ago, but I feel like I'm at the starting line of a marathon with my feet stuck in buckets full of concrete. Calix has tons of documentation, and after reading it, I feel about 1% smarter. I don't know what the end user or a tech sees as an interface for analytics and troubleshooting and tweaking settings. I don't know if you can do a standalone implementation with just the Calix Cloud and some Gigacenters and Mesh units, I get the impression you need to mess with APIs and tie into all sorts of operations systems that we don't have. I'm not even clear on whether we need to set up some kind of on-network TR-069 server, or if that's all a cloud service hosted by Calix. Is the Calix stuff relatively straightforward to use, on a par with Cambium cnPilot and cnMaestro Cloud? And maybe Calix documentation is just very confusing or I'm being stupid? Or are these things pretty complicated to incorporate into a WISP network and get all the advantages of the devices and cloud management? I'm trying to decide whether to keep struggling and get more help from Calix, or give up. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
