Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Dev]

Keywords are “open and defiant” use for adverse possession, different states 
have various lengths until you can legally take possession.

BTW, we live off grid in the woods, built everything ourselves (roads, water, 
septic, power, and uh, internet), love it. Definitely not for everyone. You 
can’t call the guy to fix it - you are the guy. You find out how you can’t be 
good at everything so you pick your battles. Hit me off list if you have 
specific questions.

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 5:46 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has to 
> have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop you for 
> a number of years.
> 
> On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be 
>> a private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession 
>> or acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a 
>> very hard case to make.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

LDS does this with all church properties as well as BYU.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 12:28 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
>  Investopedia article on squatting / adverse possession says they close 
> Rockefeller Center for one full day each year to prevent squatters.
> 
>  Original Message 
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
> Sent: 1/4/2021 1:22:03 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> 
> I think the only way you can get land that way in Utah is if you had presumed 
> you owned it and the county tax assessor did too.  I think you have had to 
> use it for 19 years and all the while being open and notorious.  Here is a 
> list:
> There must be a “hostile” claim: the trespasser must either
> make an honest mistake (like relying on an incorrect deed);
> merely occupy the land (with or without knowledge that it is private 
> property); or
> be aware of his or her trespassing;
> There must be actual possession: the trespasser must be physically present on 
> the land, treating it as his or her own;
> There must be open and notorious possession: the act of trespassing cannot be 
> secret; and
> There must be exclusive and continuous possession: the trespasser cannot 
> share possession with others, and must be in possession of the land for an 
> uninterrupted period of time.
>  
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:59 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>  
> That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life 
> into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and 
> apparently in some places go pay the property taxes too. 
> 
> I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.  Maybe 
> you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start squatting.  Tell 
> the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without specifying any other 
> details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all know you're there.  
> Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores his tax statements or 
> doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or maybe you convince the 
> muni to send the statement to you instead of the owner.  When the timer 
> expires get your lawyer to start proceedings.
> 
> I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off 
> must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for 
> criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think 
> of.  So either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.
> 
>  
> 
>> On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to 
>> occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful 
>> owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things
>>  
>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>> California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
>>> series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
>>> valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
>>> the easement is granted.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>>> > Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement 
>>> > in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of 
>>> > how he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of 
>>> > describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has 
>>> > been granted easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 
>>> > 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted 
>>> > (an old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not been 
>>> > challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road. 
>>> > Then at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, 
>>> > and as such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded 
>>> > easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
>>> > the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some 
>>> > cases that he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on 
>>> > line but at the local soil and water conservation district) and found 
>>> > stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot 
>>> > less forest and he could see a farm lane or acc

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

ensed land surveyor so my
>>> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
>>> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
>>> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
>>> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
>>> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
>>> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you,
>>> > Brian Webster
>>> > www.wirelessmapping.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> > Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
>>> > To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>>> >
>>> > I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
>>> > until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would
>>> be
>>> > worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > bp
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>> >> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
>>> >> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
>>> >> therefore they bought it at one time.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> >>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
>>> >>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
>>> >>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
>>> >>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
>>> >>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
>>> >>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
>>> >>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
>>> >>> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
>>> >>> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
>>> >>> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
>>> >>> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
>>> >>> along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
>>> >>> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
>>> >>> property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
>>> >>> of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go.
>>> >>> No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as
>>> >>> he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the
>>> >>> easement as his private property.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
>>> >>> trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> bp
>>> >>> 
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>> >>>> A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the
>>> >>>> gotchas.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a
>>> >>>>> parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue.
>>> >>>>> If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you
>>> >>>>> against any future boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in
>>> >>>>> the insurance policy, make sure you understand the implications
>>> >>>>> and/or negotiate for a longer time.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> bp
>>> >>>>> 
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>> >>>>>> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with
>>> >>>>>> the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.
>>> >>>>>> What else should I watch out for?'
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> AF mailing list
>>> >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Ken Hohhof]

   Investopedia article on squatting / adverse possession says they close 
Rockefeller Center for one full day each year to prevent squatters.

  Original Message 
 From: "Chuck McCown via AF" af@af.afmug.com
 Sent: 1/4/2021 1:22:03 PM
 To: af@af.afmug.com
 Cc: "Chuck McCown" ch...@go-mtc.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

  





I think the only way you can get land that way in Utah is if you had presumed 
you owned it and the county tax assessor did too.  I think you have had to use 
it for 19 years and all the while being open and notorious.  Here is a list:  
There must be a hostile claim: the trespasser must either  make an honest 
mistake (like relying on an incorrect deed);  merely occupy the land (with or 
without knowledge that it is private property); or  be aware of his or her 
trespassing;   There must be actual possession: the trespasser must be 
physically present on the land, treating it as his or her own;  There must be 
open and notorious possession: the act of trespassing cannot be secret; and  
There must be exclusive and continuous possession: the trespasser cannot share 
possession with others, and must be in possession of the land for an 
uninterrupted period of time.  









From: Adam Moffett  

Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:59 AM 

To: af@af.afmug.com  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land   





That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life into 
that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and apparently in 
some places go pay the property taxes too.   

I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.  Maybe 
you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start squatting.  Tell 
the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without specifying any other 
details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all know you're there.  
Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores his tax statements or 
doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or maybe you convince the 
muni to send the statement to you instead of the owner.  When the timer expires 
get your lawyer to start proceedings. 

I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off must 
be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for criminal 
trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think of.  So 
either way I suppose you get a roof over your head. 



On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:  

anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to occasionally 
take possession of properties and magically become the lawful owners? seems 
that may be the least expensive way to obtain things 





On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com wrote: 
California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
 series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
 valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
 the easement is granted.

 
 bp
 part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com

 On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
  Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.

  Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to pra

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

as the hardest part of his
surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time
studying and reviewing case law.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
        > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>
> I think those are called land locked or something similar.
Unless and
> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded
access, it would be
> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access
at all.  I'm
>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is
selling it so
>> therefore they bought it at one time.
>>
>>
>> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section
that was
>>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the
land is not
>>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the
ridge top.
>>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the
same amount
>>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and
attached it to
>>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along
the south side
>>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well
for 3 of
>>> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running
along the
>>> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one
parcel. I think
>>> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road
easement, and
>>> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs
through or even
>>> along the side our property. However, one of the
properties has his 4
>>> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
>>> property is on the other side of the easement. As a
result, the two
>>> of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we
come or go.
>>> No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we
drive by, as
>>> he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that
part of the
>>> easement as his private property.
>>>
>>> When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to
report us as
>>> trespassing on his "private" property. Years of
entertainment ensue.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>> A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose
all the
>>>> gotchas.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your
hands on a
>>>>> parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can
be an issue.
>>>>> If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy that
insures you
>>>>> against any future boundary disputes. if there is a
time limit in
>>>>> the insurance policy, make sure you understand the
implications
>>>>> and/or negotiate for a longer time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>>>> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically looking for some place to play around in the
woods, with
>>>>>> the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in
the future.
>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I think the only way you can get land that way in Utah is if you had presumed 
you owned it and the county tax assessor did too.  I think you have had to use 
it for 19 years and all the while being open and notorious.  Here is a list:
  a.. There must be a “hostile” claim: the trespasser must either 
a.. make an honest mistake (like relying on an incorrect deed); 
b.. merely occupy the land (with or without knowledge that it is private 
property); or 
c.. be aware of his or her trespassing;
  b.. There must be actual possession: the trespasser must be physically 
present on the land, treating it as his or her own; 
  c.. There must be open and notorious possession: the act of trespassing 
cannot be secret; and 
  d.. There must be exclusive and continuous possession: the trespasser cannot 
share possession with others, and must be in possession of the land for an 
uninterrupted period of time.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, January 4, 2021 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life into 
that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and apparently in 
some places go pay the property taxes too.  


I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.  Maybe 
you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start squatting.  Tell 
the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without specifying any other 
details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all know you're there.  
Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores his tax statements or 
doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or maybe you convince the 
muni to send the statement to you instead of the owner.  When the timer expires 
get your lawyer to start proceedings.

I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off must 
be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for criminal 
trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think of.  So 
either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.




On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to 
occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful 
owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things

  On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
the easement is granted.


bp


On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement 
in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>
> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do 
this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the hardest 
part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time studying 
and reviewing case law.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mai

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

Well, I suppose, if you could find some property where the owner hasn't
paid the taxes (find one where the owner never pays until they start
getting reminders for being late, for example), they might not notice if
you just start paying it. Then just move in, and avoid the neighbors as
much as possible.

I have some neighbors that I'm fairly certain haven't set foot on their
property in the 5-6 years that I've owned mine (it's vacant land, aside
from a camper trailer which, judging from the weeds, hasn't been touched in
a decade or so). I've always wondered why they keep paying ~$2k in taxes
every year instead of selling it, but I suppose they have some kind of
grand plans for it...


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:00 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your life
> into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, and
> apparently in some places go pay the property taxes too.
>
>  I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do it.
> Maybe you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start
> squatting.  Tell the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without
> specifying any other details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they all
> know you're there.  Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner ignores
> his tax statements or doesn't question why the balance is always zero.  Or
> maybe you convince the muni to send the statement to you instead of the
> owner.  When the timer expires get your lawyer to start proceedings.
>
> I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that off
> must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail for
> criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they can think
> of.  So either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.
>
>
> On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to
> occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful
> owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a
>> series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered
>> valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which
>> the easement is granted.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
>> > Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement
>> in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of
>> how he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of
>> describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been
>> granted easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10
>> years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an
>> old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not been
>> challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then
>> at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
>> such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's
>> not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to
>> be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped,
>> he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
>> and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or
>> 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
>> lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from
>> the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
>> find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the
>> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that
>> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>> >
>> > Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do
>> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my
>> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
>> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
>> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
>> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
>> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
>> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> > Brian Webster
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

That's adverse possession.  You have to invest several years of your 
life into that.  Live there openly with nobody stopping you for years, 
and apparently in some places go pay the property taxes too.


 I'm fascinated that it's a real thing, but I'm not sure how you do 
it.  Maybe you'd find a property owned by an absentee landowner.  Start 
squatting.  Tell the neighbors you've "moved in down the road" without 
specifying any other details.  Smile and wave when you drive by so they 
all know you're there.  Quietly go pay the taxes.  Hope the landowner 
ignores his tax statements or doesn't question why the balance is always 
zero.  Or maybe you convince the muni to send the statement to you 
instead of the owner.  When the timer expires get your lawyer to start 
proceedings.


I think it's something along those lines. I think people who pull that 
off must be either very lucky or very clever. Plan B is a stint in jail 
for criminal trespassing and criminal mischief and whatever else they 
can think of.  So either way I suppose you get a roof over your head.



On 1/4/2021 1:25 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to 
occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the 
lawful owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things


On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:


California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a
series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered
valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over
which
the easement is granted.


bp


On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive
easement in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my
understanding of how he has done this in some cases is probably
not the legal way of describing it. MY understanding is it goes
like this. If a person has been granted easement over a property
over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and
there is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or
access road is a good example) that has not been challenged by the
property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then at least
in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded
easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing
and the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So
in some cases that he has helped, he looked up historical aerial
images (not on line but at the local soil and water conservation
district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In
these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very
evident from the phot. Then with this information, he will go out
on the land and try to find hints of that road or access lane. If
he finds that road, even in the current forested area, he helped
the landlocked property owner gain that prescriptive easement and
then recorded a deeded easement.
>
> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you
could do this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land
surveyor so my description cannot be taken and legal advice.
Prescriptive easement laws and case law may be different in
various states so check on that with someone who is qualified on
the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to
practice law in land issues for cases like this. My brother always
said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to get
through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
    > To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>
> I think those are called land locked or something similar.
Unless and
> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it
would be
> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at
all.  I'm
>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is
selling it so
>> therefore they bought it at one time.
>>
>>
>> On 1/3/2021 6:

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Remember, those are two different issues. Adverse possession is
  one, and prescriptive easement is another.

bp

On 1/4/2021 10:29 AM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  
Even if you could get something like that to work for you
  legally, I don't think that I'd want to buy land with that
  situation... hostile neighbors aren't exactly something that
  I'd want to go looking for.


Personally, if I found a piece of landlocked land that I
  wanted, I'd go and talk to the neighbors beforehand and see if
  there's any chance of getting an easement from them.

  
  
  
On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:47 AM
  Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've
  only read about adverse possession, but I think the other
  party has 
  to have been aware of your use of the land and not done
  anything to stop 
  you for a number of years.
  
  On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  > If it has been open to the public then it is
  prescriptive.  If just used be a private person other than the
  owner it can be a case of adverse possession or acquiescence. 
  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a
  very hard case to make.
  >
  > Sent from my iPhone
  >
  >> On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster <i...@wirelessmapping.com>
  wrote:
  >>
  >> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a
  prescriptive easement in situations like this. Mt brother is a
  surveyor so my understanding of how he has done this in some
  cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY
  understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been
  granted easement over a property over a period of time (I
  think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that
  it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a
  good example) that has not been challenged by the property
  owner that you cannot use that access road. Then at least in
  NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
  such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded
  easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of
  posturing and the case law has to be argued in court in a lot
  of cases. So in some cases that he has helped, he looked up
  historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
  and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back
  to say 1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less
  forest and he could see a farm lane or access road that was
  used. Enough use that it's very evident from the phot. Then
  with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
  find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road,
  even in the current forested area, he helped the landlocked
  property owner gain that prescriptive easement and then
  recorded a deeded easement.
  >>
  >> Some of that cheap land locked property might be
  something you could do this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a
  licensed land surveyor so my description cannot be taken and
  legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may be
  different in various states so check on that with someone who
  is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
  limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like
  this. My brother always said that was the hardest part of his
  surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time
  studying and reviewing case law.
  >>
  >> Thank you,
  >> Brian Webster
  >> www.wirelessmapping.com
  >>
  >>
  >> -Original Message-
  >> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On
  Behalf Of Bill Prince
  >> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
  >> To: af@af.afmug.com
  >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
  >>
  >> I think those are called land locked or something
  similar. Unless and
  >> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded
  access, it would be
  >> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter
  pilot.
  >>
  >>
  >> bp
  >> 
  >>
  >>> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
  >>> The absolute cheape

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

Even if you could get something like that to work for you legally, I don't
think that I'd want to buy land with that situation... hostile neighbors
aren't exactly something that I'd want to go looking for.

Personally, if I found a piece of landlocked land that I wanted, I'd go and
talk to the neighbors beforehand and see if there's any chance of getting
an easement from them.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:47 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has
> to have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop
> you for a number of years.
>
> On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used
> be a private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse
> possession or acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse
> possession is a very hard case to make.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive
> easement in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my
> understanding of how he has done this in some cases is probably not the
> legal way of describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a
> person has been granted easement over a property over a period of time (I
> think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been
> permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not
> been challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road.
> Then at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and
> as such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's
> not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to
> be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped,
> he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
> and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or
> 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
> lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from
> the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
> find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the
> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that
> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
> >>
> >> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do
> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my
> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >> Brian Webster
> >> www.wirelessmapping.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
> >> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> >>
> >> I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
> >> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
> >> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >>> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
> >>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
> >>> therefore they bought it at one time.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >>>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
> >>>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
> >>>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
> >>>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
> >>>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
> >>>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
> >>>> of the ridge top. This arr

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Steve Jones]

anybody looked into the squatter laws how those creeps are able to
occasionally take possession of properties and magically become the lawful
owners? seems that may be the least expensive way to obtain things

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 10:34 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a
> series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered
> valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which
> the easement is granted.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:
> > Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement
> in situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of
> how he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of
> describing it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been
> granted easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10
> years but not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an
> old farm lane or access road is a good example) that has not been
> challenged by the property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then
> at least in NY that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as
> such you can actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's
> not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to
> be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped,
> he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil
> and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or
> 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm
> lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from
> the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to
> find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the
> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that
> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
> >
> > Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do
> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my
> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws
> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with
> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a
> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My
> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to
> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Brian Webster
> > www.wirelessmapping.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> > Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> >
> > I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
> > until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
> > worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
> >> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
> >> therefore they bought it at one time.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
> >>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
> >>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
> >>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
> >>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
> >>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
> >>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
> >>> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
> >>> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
> >>> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
> >>> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
> >>> along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
> >>> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
> >>> property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

California has a similar law. The period is 5 years, and there are a 
series of points that need to be made. If the easement is considered 
valid then the court "may" issue a payment to the land owner over which 
the easement is granted.



bp


On 1/3/2021 7:54 PM, Brian Webster wrote:

Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.

Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the hardest 
part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time studying 
and reviewing case law.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.


bp


On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
therefore they bought it at one time.


On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
"none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go.
No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as
he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the
easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the
gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a
parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue.
If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you
against any future boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in
the insurance policy, make sure you understand the implications
and/or negotiate for a longer time.


bp



On 1/2/2

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Open and notorious 
Hostile
In Utah you even have to have been paying the taxes.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 6:46 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has to 
> have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop you for 
> a number of years.
> 
>> On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be 
>> a private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession 
>> or acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a 
>> very hard case to make.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
>>> situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how 
>>> he has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing 
>>> it. MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted 
>>> easement over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but 
>>> not sure) and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm 
>>> lane or access road is a good example) that has not been challenged by the 
>>> property owner that you cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY 
>>> that can be legally called a prescriptive easement, and as such you can 
>>> actually file that and record it as a deeded easement. It's not an easy 
>>> process and there is a lot of posturing and the case law has to be argued 
>>> in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that he has helped, he looked 
>>> up historical aerial images (not on line but at the local soil and water 
>>> conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In 
>>> these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a farm lane or 
>>> access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from the phot. 
>>> Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to find 
>>> hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
>>> current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
>>> prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.
>>> 
>>> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do 
>>> this with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my 
>>> description cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws 
>>> and case law may be different in various states so check on that with 
>>> someone who is qualified on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a 
>>> limited right to practice law in land issues for cases like this. My 
>>> brother always said that was the hardest part of his surveyors license to 
>>> get through. He spent a lot of time studying and reviewing case law.
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> Brian Webster
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>>> 
>>> I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
>>> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
>>> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
>>>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
>>>> therefore they bought it at one time.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
>>>>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
>>>>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
>>>>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
>>>>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
>>>>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
>>>>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well fo

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

I've only read about adverse possession, but I think the other party has 
to have been aware of your use of the land and not done anything to stop 
you for a number of years.


On 1/4/2021 7:25 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be a 
private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession or 
acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a very 
hard case to make.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:

Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.

Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the hardest 
part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time studying 
and reviewing case law.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and
until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be
worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.


bp



On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm
not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so
therefore they bought it at one time.



On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was
divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not
really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top.
They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount
of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to
the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side
of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of
the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the
boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think
we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and
"none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even
along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4
acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his
property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two
of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go.
No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as
he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the
easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the
gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a
parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

If it has been open to the public then it is prescriptive.  If just used be a 
private person other than the owner it can be a case of adverse possession or 
acquiescence.  Both a form of squatter’s rights.  Adverse possession is a very 
hard case to make.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Brian Webster  wrote:
> 
> Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
> situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
> has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. 
> MY understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement 
> over a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) 
> and there is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access 
> road is a good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner 
> that you cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally 
> called a prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and 
> record it as a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot 
> of posturing and the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So 
> in some cases that he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not 
> on line but at the local soil and water conservation district) and found 
> stuff dating back to say 1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less 
> forest and he could see a farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use 
> that it's very evident from the phot. Then with this information, he will go 
> out on the land and try to find hints of that road or access lane. If he 
> finds that road, even in the current forested area, he helped the landlocked 
> property owner gain that prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded 
> easement.
> 
> Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
> with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
> cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
> be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
> on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law 
> in land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the 
> hardest part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time 
> studying and reviewing case law.
> 
> Thank you,
> Brian Webster
> www.wirelessmapping.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
> 
> I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and 
> until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be 
> worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm 
>> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so 
>> therefore they bought it at one time.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was 
>>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not 
>>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. 
>>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount 
>>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to 
>>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side 
>>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of 
>>> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the 
>>> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think 
>>> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and 
>>> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even 
>>> along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4 
>>> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his 
>>> property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two 
>>> of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go. 
>>> No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as 
>>> he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the 
>>> easement as his private property.
>>> 
>>> When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as 
>>> trespassing on

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Brian Webster]

Sometimes a good land surveyor can help you get a prescriptive easement in 
situations like this. Mt brother is a surveyor so my understanding of how he 
has done this in some cases is probably not the legal way of describing it. MY 
understanding is it goes like this. If a person has been granted easement over 
a property over a period of time (I think 5 or 10 years but not sure) and there 
is evidence that it has been permitted (an old farm lane or access road is a 
good example) that has not been challenged by the property owner that you 
cannot use that access road. Then at least in NY that can be legally called a 
prescriptive easement, and as such you can actually file that and record it as 
a deeded easement. It's not an easy process and there is a lot of posturing and 
the case law has to be argued in court in a lot of cases. So in some cases that 
he has helped, he looked up historical aerial images (not on line but at the 
local soil and water conservation district) and found stuff dating back to say 
1927 or 1954. In these cases there was a lot less forest and he could see a 
farm lane or access road that was used. Enough use that it's very evident from 
the phot. Then with this information, he will go out on the land and try to 
find hints of that road or access lane. If he finds that road, even in the 
current forested area, he helped the landlocked property owner gain that 
prescriptive easement and then recorded a deeded easement.

Some of that cheap land locked property might be something you could do this 
with. Now I am not a lawyer or a licensed land surveyor so my description 
cannot be taken and legal advice. Prescriptive easement laws and case law may 
be different in various states so check on that with someone who is qualified 
on the topic. In NY Licensed surveyors have a limited right to practice law in 
land issues for cases like this. My brother always said that was the hardest 
part of his surveyors license to get through. He spent a lot of time studying 
and reviewing case law.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 7:26 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and 
until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be 
worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.


bp


On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm 
> not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so 
> therefore they bought it at one time.
>
>
> On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was 
>> divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not 
>> really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. 
>> They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount 
>> of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to 
>> the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side 
>> of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of 
>> the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the 
>> boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think 
>> we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and 
>> "none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even 
>> along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4 
>> acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his 
>> property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two 
>> of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go. 
>> No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as 
>> he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the 
>> easement as his private property.
>>
>> When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as 
>> trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>> A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the 
>>> gotchas.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a 
>>>> parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. 
>>>> If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you 
>>>> against any future boundary disputes. if

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

I think those are called land locked or something similar. Unless and 
until an owner (or prospective owner) can buy deeded access, it would be 
worthless to anyone except perhaps a helicopter pilot.



bp


On 1/3/2021 4:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm 
not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so 
therefore they bought it at one time.



On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was 
divided into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not 
really "buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. 
They carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount 
of ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to 
the ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side 
of the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of 
the 4 parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the 
boundary between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think 
we got the best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and 
"none" of the road (or the easement) actually runs through or even 
along the side our property. However, one of the properties has his 4 
acres or so at the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his 
property is on the other side of the easement. As a result, the two 
of us at the end, drive through his property whenever we come or go. 
No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as 
he sees us as "trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the 
easement as his private property.


When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as 
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.


bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the 
gotchas.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a 
parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. 
If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you 
against any future boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in 
the insurance policy, make sure you understand the implications 
and/or negotiate for a longer time.



bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with 
the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. 
What else should I watch out for?'





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com






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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

The absolute cheapest land seems to have no deeded access at all.  I'm 
not sure who would ever buy those lotsbut someone is selling it so 
therefore they bought it at one time.



On 1/3/2021 6:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was divided 
into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not really 
"buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. They 
carved up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount of 
ridge top space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to the 
ridge top home sites. The road easement runs along the south side of 
the ridge top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of the 4 
parcels, as the road easement ended up running along the boundary 
between two adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think we got the 
best deal, as we're at the end of the road easement, and "none" of the 
road (or the easement) actually runs through or even along the side 
our property. However, one of the properties has his 4 acres or so at 
the top of the ridge, and the remainder of his property is on the 
other side of the easement. As a result, the two of us at the end, 
drive through his property whenever we come or go. No big deal to us, 
but it rubs this guy raw whenever we drive by, as he sees us as 
"trespassers" because he thinks of that part of the easement as his 
private property.


When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as 
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.


bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the 
gotchas.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel 
map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you 
can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against 
any future boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the 
insurance policy, make sure you understand the implications and/or 
negotiate for a longer time.



bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with 
the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. 
What else should I watch out for?'





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

None-the-less, he is not allowed to block or impede our access in any 
way. Furthermore, we can not be accused of trespassing.


bp


On 1/3/2021 4:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
But if you go to the recorder's office and look up the "owner" of that 
area based on metes and bounds, it would probably be the beer drinking 
redneck, right?  (That is mean, I am sure there are gun toting 
liberals that imbibe too, but the news never features those guys).


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 5:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

It's a non-exclusive easement for a whole list of things including who
is responsible for maintenance, and so on. It's not really private as we
own the dominant tenament.


bp


On 1/3/2021 4:03 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Well, he is right, the easement is private property...
But easements are better than a quit claim deed.  You don't have to 
pay property tax or liability insurance and you get to enjoy the land 
as your own (within the prescriptive uses on the easement).


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 4:04 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was divided
into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not really
"buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. They carved
up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount of ridge top
space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to the ridge top
home sites. The road easement runs along the south side of the ridge
top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of the 4 parcels, as
the road easement ended up running along the boundary between two
adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think we got the best deal, as
we're at the end of the road easement, and "none" of the road (or the
easement) actually runs through or even along the side our property.
However, one of the properties has his 4 acres or so at the top of the
ridge, and the remainder of his property is on the other side of the
easement. As a result, the two of us at the end, drive through his
property whenever we come or go. No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy
raw whenever we drive by, as he sees us as "trespassers" because he
thinks of that part of the easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the 
gotchas.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a 
parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. 
If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you 
against any future boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in 
the insurance policy, make sure you understand the implications 
and/or negotiate for a longer time.



bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with 
the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. 
What else should I watch out for?'





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

But if you go to the recorder's office and look up the "owner" of that area 
based on metes and bounds, it would probably be the beer drinking redneck, 
right?  (That is mean, I am sure there are gun toting liberals that imbibe 
too, but the news never features those guys).


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 5:08 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

It's a non-exclusive easement for a whole list of things including who
is responsible for maintenance, and so on. It's not really private as we
own the dominant tenament.


bp


On 1/3/2021 4:03 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Well, he is right, the easement is private property...
But easements are better than a quit claim deed.  You don't have to pay 
property tax or liability insurance and you get to enjoy the land as your 
own (within the prescriptive uses on the easement).


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 4:04 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was divided
into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not really
"buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. They carved
up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount of ridge top
space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to the ridge top
home sites. The road easement runs along the south side of the ridge
top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of the 4 parcels, as
the road easement ended up running along the boundary between two
adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think we got the best deal, as
we're at the end of the road easement, and "none" of the road (or the
easement) actually runs through or even along the side our property.
However, one of the properties has his 4 acres or so at the top of the
ridge, and the remainder of his property is on the other side of the
easement. As a result, the two of us at the end, drive through his
property whenever we come or go. No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy
raw whenever we drive by, as he sees us as "trespassers" because he
thinks of that part of the easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map 
and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do 
that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future 
boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, 
make sure you understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer 
time.



bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What 
else should I watch out for?'





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

It's a non-exclusive easement for a whole list of things including who 
is responsible for maintenance, and so on. It's not really private as we 
own the dominant tenament.



bp


On 1/3/2021 4:03 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Well, he is right, the easement is private property...
But easements are better than a quit claim deed.  You don't have to 
pay property tax or liability insurance and you get to enjoy the land 
as your own (within the prescriptive uses on the easement).


-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 4:04 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was divided
into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not really
"buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. They carved
up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount of ridge top
space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to the ridge top
home sites. The road easement runs along the south side of the ridge
top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of the 4 parcels, as
the road easement ended up running along the boundary between two
adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think we got the best deal, as
we're at the end of the road easement, and "none" of the road (or the
easement) actually runs through or even along the side our property.
However, one of the properties has his 4 acres or so at the top of the
ridge, and the remainder of his property is on the other side of the
easement. As a result, the two of us at the end, drive through his
property whenever we come or go. No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy
raw whenever we drive by, as he sees us as "trespassers" because he
thinks of that part of the easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the 
gotchas.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel 
map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you 
can't do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against 
any future boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the 
insurance policy, make sure you understand the implications and/or 
negotiate for a longer time.



bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with 
the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. 
What else should I watch out for?'





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

No lizard people are innocent...

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 4:51 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Tell that to the innocent lizard people.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 1/3/2021 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with that plan!
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:37 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Please tell me you don't want this land so you can go there with your RV
>> and hunt for lizard people.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 2:59 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Cc: Chuck McCown 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>>
>> A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> >
>> > Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel
>> map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't
>> do that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future
>> boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make
>> sure you understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.
>> >
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> >> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> >> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>> >>
>> >> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the
>> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>> >>
>> >> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What
>> else should I watch out for?'
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Well,  he is right, the easement is private property...
But easements are better than a quit claim deed.  You don't have to pay 
property tax or liability insurance and you get to enjoy the land as your 
own (within the prescriptive uses on the easement).


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 4:04 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was divided
into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not really
"buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. They carved
up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount of ridge top
space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to the ridge top
home sites. The road easement runs along the south side of the ridge
top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of the 4 parcels, as
the road easement ended up running along the boundary between two
adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think we got the best deal, as
we're at the end of the road easement, and "none" of the road (or the
easement) actually runs through or even along the side our property.
However, one of the properties has his 4 acres or so at the top of the
ridge, and the remainder of his property is on the other side of the
easement. As a result, the two of us at the end, drive through his
property whenever we come or go. No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy
raw whenever we drive by, as he sees us as "trespassers" because he
thinks of that part of the easement as his private property.

When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.

bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map 
and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do 
that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future 
boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make 
sure you understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.



bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What 
else should I watch out for?'





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Jaime Solorza]

Lol..

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 2:37 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Please tell me you don't want this land so you can go there with your RV
> and hunt for lizard people.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 2:59 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>
> A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >
> > Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map
> and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do
> that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future
> boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make
> sure you understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
> >>
> >> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
> >>
> >> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What
> else should I watch out for?'
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

I can add another thing. We live on a quarter section that was divided 
into 4 approximately 40 acre parcels. Most of the land is not really 
"buildable" except for a dozen or so acres on the ridge top. They carved 
up the parcels to give everyone close to the same amount of ridge top 
space, and then divided the remainder and attached it to the ridge top 
home sites. The road easement runs along the south side of the ridge 
top. This arrangement worked out pretty well for 3 of the 4 parcels, as 
the road easement ended up running along the boundary between two 
adjacent parcels except for one parcel. I think we got the best deal, as 
we're at the end of the road easement, and "none" of the road (or the 
easement) actually runs through or even along the side our property. 
However, one of the properties has his 4 acres or so at the top of the 
ridge, and the remainder of his property is on the other side of the 
easement. As a result, the two of us at the end, drive through his 
property whenever we come or go. No big deal to us, but it rubs this guy 
raw whenever we drive by, as he sees us as "trespassers" because he 
thinks of that part of the easement as his private property.


When the guy gets drunk, he will call the sheriff to report us as 
trespassing on his "private" property. Years of entertainment ensue.


bp


On 1/3/2021 12:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map and 
any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do that, get 
a title insurance policy that insures you against any future boundary disputes. 
if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make sure you understand the 
implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.


bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.

The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What else 
should I watch out for?'




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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Tell that to the innocent lizard people.


bp

On 1/3/2021 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that plan!
  
  
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:37 PM
  Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

Please
  tell me you don't want this land so you can go there with your
  RV and hunt for lizard people.
  
  -Original Message-
  From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
  Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 2:59 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
  Cc: Chuck McCown <ch...@go-mtc.com>
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
  
  A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all
  the gotchas.
  
  Sent from my iPhone
  
  > On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > 
  > Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands
  on a parcel map and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be
  an issue. If you can't do that, get a title insurance policy
  that insures you against any future boundary disputes. if
  there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make sure you
  understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer
  time.
  > 
  > 
  > bp
  > 
  > 
  >> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
  >> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
  >> 
  >> Basically looking for some place to play around in
  the woods, with the possibility of building an off-grid
  camp/cabin in the future.
  >> 
  >> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places
  with no access. What else should I watch out for?'
  >> 
  >> 
  >> 
  > 
  > -- 
  > AF mailing list
  > AF@af.afmug.com
  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  -- 
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  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  
  
  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Mathew Howard]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that plan!

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:37 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Please tell me you don't want this land so you can go there with your RV
> and hunt for lizard people.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 2:59 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land
>
> A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> >
> > Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map
> and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do
> that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future
> boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make
> sure you understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
> >>
> >> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
> >>
> >> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What
> else should I watch out for?'
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

If I do, that's my own dang business.

'Murica

On 1/3/2021 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Please tell me you don't want this land so you can go there with your RV and 
hunt for lizard people.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 2:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map and 
any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do that, get 
a title insurance policy that insures you against any future boundary disputes. 
if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make sure you understand the 
implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.


bp



On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.

The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What else 
should I watch out for?'




--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Ken Hohhof]

Please tell me you don't want this land so you can go there with your RV and 
hunt for lizard people.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 2:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map and 
> any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do that, 
> get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future boundary 
> disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make sure you 
> understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>> 
>> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
>> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>> 
>> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What else 
>> should I watch out for?'
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Chuck McCown via AF]

A good title insurance policy should dig up and disclose all the gotchas.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map and 
> any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do that, 
> get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future boundary 
> disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, make sure you 
> understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer time.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>> 
>> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
>> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>> 
>> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What else 
>> should I watch out for?'
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Brian Webster]

EPA sites have been mentioned already but also you should take a look at 
historic preservation databases as well to make sure there aren’t undue 
restrictions for some odd reason. Also I would research the zoning laws and/or 
lack of in the area of interest. Pay attention to things like subdivision 
regulations, actual municipal boundaries and such. As a radio guy I would also 
research any possible issues with FAA clearances should you want to build a 
tower. You don’t want to be in some instrument flight pattern or some other 
oddity.

 

Fortunately you can check out a good deal of these issues remotely. Ping me off 
line and I can point some of that data out. Your GIS skills should make it 
fairly simple to use.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 8:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

 

Well and septic are optional for me, but yeah they matter for resale.

 

On 1/3/2021 8:25 AM, David Coudron wrote:

If you think you will be going off grid or something similar it might not 
matter.   However, it still might make sense that you can get a well and 
private septic on the property some day.   It is hard to invest much in a cabin 
without those options available.   Not every property qualifies for both of 
those due to regulations/zoning etc.   Also, building a nice place that none of 
the family will visit because it doesn’t have running water or septic might not 
be what you want (or it might ).  

 

Even with off grid, you can get wells and septic and have a pretty comfortable 
place.   We have built 3 different hunting cabins on properties in North Dakota 
and Minnesota.   Access to potable water and septic are the biggest challenges 
it seems like.   Building the structure and making it inhabitable is the easy 
part.  Hauling water is fine, but you can’t really leave it at the cabin for 
weeks at a time without a good storage system and you need to treat it.   If 
you are planning to use the place for any amount of time, hauling water gets 
pretty old.

 

Hit me off list if you want some ideas on lower cost options for well and 
septic, we ended up doing a variety of things at the three different shacks, 
some worked better than others.

 

Also, for inexpensive structures, have talked with some folks that have had 
luck with shipping containers for the cabin.   Can do some pretty fancy stuff 
with them.   We looked at that, but didn’t end up going that route as one 
property had an old quanset we converted and we had access to a lot of lumber 
at the others.  

 

Regards, 

 

David Coudron

 

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 6:27 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

 

Thankfully, I love bullets.  

On 1/3/2021 4:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

If you can tolerate all 4 seasons in a day and an occasional bird size mosquito 
 Arkansas is the place to go. Just make sure to not buy anything next to me if 
you dont like bullets 

 

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 12:21 AM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they don’t let you 
build a cabin without it. 

Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed on/agricultural) 
land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make friends with a live stock owner 
near your property to have them graze yours so you don’t pay more than you 
should. Here it’s a minimum of 5 acres to qualify. 

Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?

Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain the roads?

Good luck!

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
> 
> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
> 
> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What else 
> should I watch out for?'
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Bill Prince]

Depending on the terrain, see if you can get your hands on a parcel map 
and any benchmarks. Property boundaries can be an issue. If you can't do 
that, get a title insurance policy that insures you against any future 
boundary disputes. if there is a time limit in the insurance policy, 
make sure you understand the implications and/or negotiate for a longer 
time.



bp


On 1/2/2021 9:28 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access. What 
else should I watch out for?'






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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

Well and septic are optional for me, but yeah they matter for resale.


On 1/3/2021 8:25 AM, David Coudron wrote:


If you think you will be going off grid or something similar it might 
not matter.   However, it still might make sense that you can get a 
well and private septic on the property some day.   It is hard to 
invest much in a cabin without those options available.   Not every 
property qualifies for both of those due to regulations/zoning etc. 
Also, building a nice place that none of the family will visit because 
it doesn’t have running water or septic might not be what you want (or 
it might ).


Even with off grid, you can get wells and septic and have a pretty 
comfortable place.   We have built 3 different hunting cabins on 
properties in North Dakota and Minnesota.   Access to potable water 
and septic are the biggest challenges it seems like.   Building the 
structure and making it inhabitable is the easy part.  Hauling water 
is fine, but you can’t really leave it at the cabin for weeks at a 
time without a good storage system and you need to treat it.   If you 
are planning to use the place for any amount of time, hauling water 
gets pretty old.


Hit me off list if you want some ideas on lower cost options for well 
and septic, we ended up doing a variety of things at the three 
different shacks, some worked better than others.


Also, for inexpensive structures, have talked with some folks that 
have had luck with shipping containers for the cabin.   Can do some 
pretty fancy stuff with them.   We looked at that, but didn’t end up 
going that route as one property had an old quanset we converted and 
we had access to a lot of lumber at the others.


Regards,

David Coudron**

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Sunday, January 3, 2021 6:27 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

Thankfully, I love bullets.

On 1/3/2021 4:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

If you can tolerate all 4 seasons in a day and an occasional bird
size mosquito  Arkansas is the place to go. Just make sure to not
buy anything next to me if you dont like bullets

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 12:21 AM Cassidy B. Larson mailto:c...@infowest.com>> wrote:

Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they
don’t let you build a cabin without it.

Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed
on/agricultural) land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make
friends with a live stock owner near your property to have
them graze yours so you don’t pay more than you should. Here
it’s a minimum of 5 acres to qualify.

Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?

Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain
the roads?

Good luck!

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>
> Basically looking for some place to play around in the
woods, with the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin
in the future.
>
> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no
access.  What else should I watch out for?'
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[David Coudron]

If you think you will be going off grid or something similar it might not 
matter.   However, it still might make sense that you can get a well and 
private septic on the property some day.   It is hard to invest much in a cabin 
without those options available.   Not every property qualifies for both of 
those due to regulations/zoning etc.   Also, building a nice place that none of 
the family will visit because it doesn’t have running water or septic might not 
be what you want (or it might ).

Even with off grid, you can get wells and septic and have a pretty comfortable 
place.   We have built 3 different hunting cabins on properties in North Dakota 
and Minnesota.   Access to potable water and septic are the biggest challenges 
it seems like.   Building the structure and making it inhabitable is the easy 
part.  Hauling water is fine, but you can’t really leave it at the cabin for 
weeks at a time without a good storage system and you need to treat it.   If 
you are planning to use the place for any amount of time, hauling water gets 
pretty old.

Hit me off list if you want some ideas on lower cost options for well and 
septic, we ended up doing a variety of things at the three different shacks, 
some worked better than others.

Also, for inexpensive structures, have talked with some folks that have had 
luck with shipping containers for the cabin.   Can do some pretty fancy stuff 
with them.   We looked at that, but didn’t end up going that route as one 
property had an old quanset we converted and we had access to a lot of lumber 
at the others.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2021 6:27 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land


Thankfully, I love bullets.
On 1/3/2021 4:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
If you can tolerate all 4 seasons in a day and an occasional bird size mosquito 
 Arkansas is the place to go. Just make sure to not buy anything next to me if 
you dont like bullets

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 12:21 AM Cassidy B. Larson 
mailto:c...@infowest.com>> wrote:
Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they don’t let you 
build a cabin without it.

Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed on/agricultural) 
land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make friends with a live stock owner 
near your property to have them graze yours so you don’t pay more than you 
should. Here it’s a minimum of 5 acres to qualify.

Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?

Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain the roads?

Good luck!

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett 
> mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>
> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>
> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What else 
> should I watch out for?'
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com<mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Lewis Bergman]

Doesn't sound like you are looking anywhere that would have been industrial
or commercial but if you were, the EPA doesn't care who was responsible for
dumping hazardous waste, the current owner assumes liability for it.

I think wetlands are only an issue if you want to modify that part of your
land. If you have no desire to touch it in a permanent way you might like
them.

By the way, Zillow still seems to be a lousy estimate of value. Make sure
you find a good land real estate broker. Most of the times a real one does
nothing but farm, ranch, and hunting land. They should know what the real
market value is in the area.

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 11:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>
> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>
> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What
> else should I watch out for?'
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

Good thoughts, thanks.


On 1/3/2021 1:20 AM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:

Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they don’t let you 
build a cabin without it.

Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed on/agricultural) 
land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make friends with a live stock owner 
near your property to have them graze yours so you don’t pay more than you 
should. Here it’s a minimum of 5 acres to qualify.

Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?

Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain the roads?

Good luck!


On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.

The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What else 
should I watch out for?'



--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

Thankfully, I love bullets.

On 1/3/2021 4:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
If you can tolerate all 4 seasons in a day and an occasional bird size 
mosquito  Arkansas is the place to go. Just make sure to not buy 
anything next to me if you dont like bullets


On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 12:21 AM Cassidy B. Larson > wrote:


Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they don’t
let you build a cabin without it.

Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed
on/agricultural) land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make
friends with a live stock owner near your property to have them
graze yours so you don’t pay more than you should. Here it’s a
minimum of 5 acres to qualify.

Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?

Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain the roads?

Good luck!

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>
> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods,
with the possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>
> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no
access.  What else should I watch out for?'
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Steve Jones]

If you can tolerate all 4 seasons in a day and an occasional bird size
mosquito  Arkansas is the place to go. Just make sure to not buy anything
next to me if you dont like bullets

On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 12:21 AM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they don’t let you
> build a cabin without it.
>
> Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed
> on/agricultural) land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make friends with
> a live stock owner near your property to have them graze yours so you don’t
> pay more than you should. Here it’s a minimum of 5 acres to qualify.
>
> Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?
>
> Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain the roads?
>
> Good luck!
>
> > On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> >
> > I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
> >
> > Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
> >
> > The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What
> else should I watch out for?'
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Robert]

Access to power, you might want it in the future if not now.   Future 
development plans..   mineral rights...


On 1/2/21 10:20 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:

Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they don’t let you 
build a cabin without it.

Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed on/agricultural) 
land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make friends with a live stock owner 
near your property to have them graze yours so you don’t pay more than you 
should. Here it’s a minimum of 5 acres to qualify.

Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?

Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain the roads?

Good luck!


On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett  wrote:

I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.

The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What else 
should I watch out for?'



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Sources of water or water rights for the property. Here they don’t let you 
build a cabin without it. 

Taxes. Not sure about your state, but here “greenbelt” (grazed on/agricultural) 
land gets substantially lower tax rates. Make friends with a live stock owner 
near your property to have them graze yours so you don’t pay more than you 
should. Here it’s a minimum of 5 acres to qualify. 

Do you need to fence the property? Costs to maintain?

Easements/access agreements. Who bares the cost to maintain the roads?

Good luck!

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 22:29, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
> 
> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
> 
> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What else 
> should I watch out for?'
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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[AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Adam Moffett]

I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.

Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the 
possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.


The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What 
else should I watch out for?'




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