Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Justin Wilson (Lists)]

The key is to make your network modular so you can swap out Cisco for Juniper 
or Juniper for Cisco or whatever the flavor of router/switch you may like at 
that point in time. Try not to get tied to an ecosystem.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

—
https://j2sw.com (AS399332)
https://blog.j2sw.com - Podcast and Blog

> On Jan 23, 2024, at 10:45 AM,   
> wrote:
> 
> I started on Cisco forever ago.  During my WISP times it was a blend of 
> Mikrotiks and refurb Cisco’s.
> I started on Juniper a few years ago.  It was alien at first, but I learned 
> to like it.  Networks are never homogenous….at least not forever. 
> And after 25 years of scripting, programming, system admin, network 
> engineering, etc I have had to learn a lot of different syntax so I don’t see 
> a problem adding one more to the mix.  I wouldn’t have a lot of sympathy for 
> an employee  who’s stuck on Juniper or Cisco and doesn’t want to do the other.
>  
> Call me crazy if you want.
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2024 1:51 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Cc: Peter Kranz 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>  
> Juniper has an entirely different programming style that Cisco.. most network 
> folks like one or the other, I would not suggest mixing them in your network.
>  
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com <mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com>
>> .
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[dmmoffett]

I started on Cisco forever ago.  During my WISP times it was a blend of 
Mikrotiks and refurb Cisco’s.

I started on Juniper a few years ago.  It was alien at first, but I learned to 
like it.  Networks are never homogenous….at least not forever. 

And after 25 years of scripting, programming, system admin, network 
engineering, etc I have had to learn a lot of different syntax so I don’t see a 
problem adding one more to the mix.  I wouldn’t have a lot of sympathy for an 
employee  who’s stuck on Juniper or Cisco and doesn’t want to do the other.

 

Call me crazy if you want.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2024 1:51 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

Juniper has an entirely different programming style that Cisco.. most network 
folks like one or the other, I would not suggest mixing them in your network.

 

Peter Kranz
 <http://www.unwiredltd.com/> www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
 <mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> pkr...@unwiredltd.com

.

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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Jason McKemie]

I don't have either on my network right now, but I am certainly more
familiar with Cisco (although it has been a few years).

On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 12:52 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:

> Juniper has an entirely different programming style that Cisco.. most
> network folks like one or the other, I would not suggest mixing them in
> your network.
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> *.*
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Daniel Pautz via AF]

O isn’t that the truth.   I honestly hate Junipers,  but its been 25 years 
of cisco,  missed in some extreme networks which was close to cisco command 
line.  And Arista which is growing fast is pretty much cisco command line.


From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2024 11:51 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

Juniper has an entirely different programming style that Cisco.. most network 
folks like one or the other, I would not suggest mixing them in your network.

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com<http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com<mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com>
.
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Peter Kranz via AF]

Juniper has an entirely different programming style that Cisco.. most network 
folks like one or the other, I would not suggest mixing them in your network.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

.

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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[fiberrun]

Since the datasheets on these things are terrible, can you tell me how many routes each box can take?

 

 

Jared

 
 

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 11:35 PM
From: "Jesse DuPont" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper


Another option. Check out OcNOS from IP Infusion. CLI is almost identical to Cisco and it's a great value. OcNOS runs on white label boxes so you can choose the hardware platform that fits your needs (what I've ordered so far comes with OcNOS pre-installed). Lots of hardware choices from Edgecore and UfiSpace. IP Infusion supports others, too. OcNOS is a full featured carrier-class routing/switching OS and includes full BNG, MPLS, L3/L2VPN suite, etc. A Ufispace S9510-28DC-9N0A with DC power and OcNOS MPLS license is about $8K and is comparable to the Juniper MX204 in terms of features, capacity and port count, including full route tables if used at the border. On the low-end, the Ufispace 9502-16MT with MPLS license and DC power is about $2200 and has all the same capabilities/features as the bigger box, just less capacity and port count. Great platform. I suppose technically the white label boxes are L3 switches in so much as the ASIC that runs it a switch chip at its hard, but all routing, label switching, and L2 switching (data plane) takes place in the ASIC. Control plane is handled by the CPU. Worth a look. We have OcNOS interoperating with Juniper, Mikrotik and NetElastic on OSPF/MPLS/VPLS.
 
On 1/11/24 11:16 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:



Arista goes both ways.  We have a number of Arista L3 switches, and also a big modular chassis thing comparable to a Juniper MX.

Full routes just depends on the model.  Some of them can’t do it.

 

We started buying Arista a couple of years ago when Juniper changed their pricing model.  Good products.  CLI almost identical to Cisco, so it’s old hat.  I have no complaints with Arista.

 

-Adam

 

 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel Pautz via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper



 

Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take full multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing with some Arista’s.

 


From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper


 


While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used Arista. We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k eaxh.


 



On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:




Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.


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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[dmmoffett]

You are correct.  4x 100G.

We replaced our 204 with the 10003 a couple years ago and I just misremembered. 
 I thought I remembered it having 6 port 100G modules…..apparently that’s a 
figment of my imagination.

 

 

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2024 2:03 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

Mx204 only has 4x100g and 8x10g, but if using all 100g ports you loose the 10g 
I believe. 

 

On Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 8:44 AM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:

Thanks, I’ll have to keep it in mind.  That price point and port mix is not 
that far away from Arista, but no matter how much capital a company has they 
always want to sharpen the pencil.  

 

With an L3 switch the thing that we always have to keep in mind is which 
features don’t use the ASIC because that’s what will bite you later.  Do you 
happen to know how that Ufispace S9510 is in that regard?  Have you encountered 
things that hit the CPU?

 

This may be a tangent, but a Juniper MX204 is hard to compare to an L3 switch.  
I’m sure you’re right that Ufispace switch can hit the throughput, but the 
routing engine in the MX204 can do 1.2Tbps and supports the full set of 
features of the platform.  If I populate the MX204 with 12x 100Gbps ports then 
I can expect wire speed to all ports simultaneously no matter what features I 
use.  The MX10003 has I think 2 of those routing engines (So 2.4Tbps).  It has 
1+1 control plane redundancy.  It has 6 power supplies….and with our current 
configuration I think we need 3 to operate so 3+3 redundancy there.  The 
routing engines are basically 2+0 and we achieve redundancy by using MLAG to 
our POP ring and splitting our upstream connections between the two routing 
engines.  I believe we paid a quarter mil for the MX10003, but it’s the only 
router we need for the foreseeable future for a metro area with 250,000 people 
in it, and it would be hard to have a hardware failure that would actually hurt 
us.  In another market we have the MX10008….same routing engines, but more of 
them (I want to say 6, but I’m not going to check right now). 

 

That said we’re well aware of the savings with L3 switches.  And often the 
answer to redundancy is just have 2 or 3 of them and more or less achieve the 
same thing as you did with the big fancy chassis.  

 

I still like Mikrotik.  I miss the simplicity.  There’s zero chance we’ll ever 
use them here though.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Jesse DuPont
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 4:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

Another option. Check out OcNOS from IP Infusion. CLI is almost identical to 
Cisco and it's a great value. OcNOS runs on white label boxes so you can choose 
the hardware platform that fits your needs (what I've ordered so far comes with 
OcNOS pre-installed). Lots of hardware choices from Edgecore and UfiSpace. IP 
Infusion supports others, too. OcNOS is a full featured carrier-class 
routing/switching OS and includes full BNG, MPLS, L3/L2VPN suite, etc. A 
Ufispace S9510-28DC-9N0A with DC power and OcNOS MPLS license is about $8K and 
is comparable to the Juniper MX204 in terms of features, capacity and port 
count, including full route tables if used at the border. On the low-end, the 
Ufispace 9502-16MT with MPLS license and DC power is about $2200 and has all 
the same capabilities/features as the bigger box, just less capacity and port 
count. Great platform. I suppose technically the white label boxes are L3 
switches in so much as the ASIC that runs it a switch chip at its hard, but all 
routing, label switching, and L2 switching (data plane) takes place in the 
ASIC. Control plane is handled by the CPU. Worth a look. We have OcNOS 
interoperating with Juniper, Mikrotik and NetElastic on OSPF/MPLS/VPLS.

On 1/11/24 11:16 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Arista goes both ways.  We have a number of Arista L3 switches, and also a big 
modular chassis thing comparable to a Juniper MX.

Full routes just depends on the model.  Some of them can’t do it.

 

We started buying Arista a couple of years ago when Juniper changed their 
pricing model.  Good products.  CLI almost identical to Cisco, so it’s old hat. 
 I have no complaints with Arista.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Daniel Pautz via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: Daniel Pautz  <mailto:d...@webnx.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take full 
multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing with some 
Arista’s.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Zach Underwood
Sent: We

Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[TJ Trout]

Mx204 only has 4x100g and 8x10g, but if using all 100g ports you loose the
10g I believe.

On Fri, Jan 12, 2024, 8:44 AM  wrote:

> Thanks, I’ll have to keep it in mind.  That price point and port mix is
> not that far away from Arista, but no matter how much capital a company has
> they always want to sharpen the pencil.
>
>
>
> With an L3 switch the thing that we always have to keep in mind is which
> features *don’t *use the ASIC because that’s what will bite you later.
> Do you happen to know how that Ufispace S9510 is in that regard?  Have you
> encountered things that hit the CPU?
>
>
>
> This may be a tangent, but a Juniper MX204 is hard to compare to an L3
> switch.  I’m sure you’re right that Ufispace switch can hit the throughput,
> but the routing engine in the MX204 can do 1.2Tbps and supports the full
> set of features of the platform.  If I populate the MX204 with 12x 100Gbps
> ports then I can expect wire speed to all ports simultaneously *no matter
> what features I use*.  The MX10003 has I think 2 of those routing engines
> (So 2.4Tbps).  It has 1+1 control plane redundancy.  It has 6 power
> supplies….and with our current configuration I think we need 3 to operate
> so 3+3 redundancy there.  The routing engines are basically 2+0 and we
> achieve redundancy by using MLAG to our POP ring and splitting our upstream
> connections between the two routing engines.  I believe we paid a quarter
> mil for the MX10003, but it’s the only router we need for the foreseeable
> future for a metro area with 250,000 people in it, and it would be hard to
> have a hardware failure that would actually hurt us.  In another market we
> have the MX10008….same routing engines, but more of them (I want to say 6,
> but I’m not going to check right now).
>
>
>
> That said we’re well aware of the savings with L3 switches.  And often the
> answer to redundancy is just have 2 or 3 of them and more or less achieve
> the same thing as you did with the big fancy chassis.
>
>
>
> I still like Mikrotik.  I miss the simplicity.  There’s zero chance we’ll
> ever use them here though.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jesse DuPont
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2024 4:36 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> Another option. Check out OcNOS from IP Infusion. CLI is almost identical
> to Cisco and it's a great value. OcNOS runs on white label boxes so you can
> choose the hardware platform that fits your needs (what I've ordered so far
> comes with OcNOS pre-installed). Lots of hardware choices from Edgecore and
> UfiSpace. IP Infusion supports others, too. OcNOS is a full featured
> carrier-class routing/switching OS and includes full BNG, MPLS, L3/L2VPN
> suite, etc. A Ufispace S9510-28DC-9N0A with DC power and OcNOS MPLS license
> is about $8K and is comparable to the Juniper MX204 in terms of features,
> capacity and port count, including full route tables if used at the border.
> On the low-end, the Ufispace 9502-16MT with MPLS license and DC power is
> about $2200 and has all the same capabilities/features as the bigger box,
> just less capacity and port count. Great platform. I suppose technically
> the white label boxes are L3 switches in so much as the ASIC that runs it a
> switch chip at its hard, but all routing, label switching, and L2 switching
> (data plane) takes place in the ASIC. Control plane is handled by the CPU.
> Worth a look. We have OcNOS interoperating with Juniper, Mikrotik and
> NetElastic on OSPF/MPLS/VPLS.
>
> On 1/11/24 11:16 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Arista goes both ways.  We have a number of Arista L3 switches, and also a
> big modular chassis thing comparable to a Juniper MX.
>
> Full routes just depends on the model.  Some of them can’t do it.
>
>
>
> We started buying Arista a couple of years ago when Juniper changed their
> pricing model.  Good products.  CLI almost identical to Cisco, so it’s old
> hat.  I have no complaints with Arista.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Daniel Pautz via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:00 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Cc:* Daniel Pautz  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take
> full multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing
> with some Arista’s.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> While not juniper and with no support we 

Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Jason McKemie]

Thanks for the input everyone.

If I'm considering used Juniper, is there any reason to not consider used
Cisco as well?  Seems like a pretty similar situation.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 3:37 PM Jesse DuPont 
wrote:

> Another option. Check out OcNOS from IP Infusion. CLI is almost identical
> to Cisco and it's a great value. OcNOS runs on white label boxes so you can
> choose the hardware platform that fits your needs (what I've ordered so far
> comes with OcNOS pre-installed). Lots of hardware choices from Edgecore and
> UfiSpace. IP Infusion supports others, too. OcNOS is a full featured
> carrier-class routing/switching OS and includes full BNG, MPLS, L3/L2VPN
> suite, etc. A Ufispace S9510-28DC-9N0A with DC power and OcNOS MPLS license
> is about $8K and is comparable to the Juniper MX204 in terms of features,
> capacity and port count, including full route tables if used at the border.
> On the low-end, the Ufispace 9502-16MT with MPLS license and DC power is
> about $2200 and has all the same capabilities/features as the bigger box,
> just less capacity and port count. Great platform. I suppose technically
> the white label boxes are L3 switches in so much as the ASIC that runs it a
> switch chip at its hard, but all routing, label switching, and L2 switching
> (data plane) takes place in the ASIC. Control plane is handled by the CPU.
> Worth a look. We have OcNOS interoperating with Juniper, Mikrotik and
> NetElastic on OSPF/MPLS/VPLS.
>
> On 1/11/24 11:16 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Arista goes both ways.  We have a number of Arista L3 switches, and also a
> big modular chassis thing comparable to a Juniper MX.
>
> Full routes just depends on the model.  Some of them can’t do it.
>
>
>
> We started buying Arista a couple of years ago when Juniper changed their
> pricing model.  Good products.  CLI almost identical to Cisco, so it’s old
> hat.  I have no complaints with Arista.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Daniel Pautz via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:00 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Cc:* Daniel Pautz  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take
> full multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing
> with some Arista’s.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used
> Arista. We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k
> eaxh.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[dmmoffett]

Thanks, I’ll have to keep it in mind.  That price point and port mix is not 
that far away from Arista, but no matter how much capital a company has they 
always want to sharpen the pencil.  

 

With an L3 switch the thing that we always have to keep in mind is which 
features don’t use the ASIC because that’s what will bite you later.  Do you 
happen to know how that Ufispace S9510 is in that regard?  Have you encountered 
things that hit the CPU?

 

This may be a tangent, but a Juniper MX204 is hard to compare to an L3 switch.  
I’m sure you’re right that Ufispace switch can hit the throughput, but the 
routing engine in the MX204 can do 1.2Tbps and supports the full set of 
features of the platform.  If I populate the MX204 with 12x 100Gbps ports then 
I can expect wire speed to all ports simultaneously no matter what features I 
use.  The MX10003 has I think 2 of those routing engines (So 2.4Tbps).  It has 
1+1 control plane redundancy.  It has 6 power supplies….and with our current 
configuration I think we need 3 to operate so 3+3 redundancy there.  The 
routing engines are basically 2+0 and we achieve redundancy by using MLAG to 
our POP ring and splitting our upstream connections between the two routing 
engines.  I believe we paid a quarter mil for the MX10003, but it’s the only 
router we need for the foreseeable future for a metro area with 250,000 people 
in it, and it would be hard to have a hardware failure that would actually hurt 
us.  In another market we have the MX10008….same routing engines, but more of 
them (I want to say 6, but I’m not going to check right now). 

 

That said we’re well aware of the savings with L3 switches.  And often the 
answer to redundancy is just have 2 or 3 of them and more or less achieve the 
same thing as you did with the big fancy chassis.  

 

I still like Mikrotik.  I miss the simplicity.  There’s zero chance we’ll ever 
use them here though.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jesse DuPont
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 4:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

Another option. Check out OcNOS from IP Infusion. CLI is almost identical to 
Cisco and it's a great value. OcNOS runs on white label boxes so you can choose 
the hardware platform that fits your needs (what I've ordered so far comes with 
OcNOS pre-installed). Lots of hardware choices from Edgecore and UfiSpace. IP 
Infusion supports others, too. OcNOS is a full featured carrier-class 
routing/switching OS and includes full BNG, MPLS, L3/L2VPN suite, etc. A 
Ufispace S9510-28DC-9N0A with DC power and OcNOS MPLS license is about $8K and 
is comparable to the Juniper MX204 in terms of features, capacity and port 
count, including full route tables if used at the border. On the low-end, the 
Ufispace 9502-16MT with MPLS license and DC power is about $2200 and has all 
the same capabilities/features as the bigger box, just less capacity and port 
count. Great platform. I suppose technically the white label boxes are L3 
switches in so much as the ASIC that runs it a switch chip at its hard, but all 
routing, label switching, and L2 switching (data plane) takes place in the 
ASIC. Control plane is handled by the CPU. Worth a look. We have OcNOS 
interoperating with Juniper, Mikrotik and NetElastic on OSPF/MPLS/VPLS.

On 1/11/24 11:16 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Arista goes both ways.  We have a number of Arista L3 switches, and also a big 
modular chassis thing comparable to a Juniper MX.

Full routes just depends on the model.  Some of them can’t do it.

 

We started buying Arista a couple of years ago when Juniper changed their 
pricing model.  Good products.  CLI almost identical to Cisco, so it’s old hat. 
 I have no complaints with Arista.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Daniel Pautz via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: Daniel Pautz  <mailto:d...@webnx.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take full 
multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing with some 
Arista’s.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used Arista. 
We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k eaxh.

 

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote:

Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update 
perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.

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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
Another option. Check out OcNOS from IP
  Infusion. CLI is almost identical to Cisco and it's a great value.
  OcNOS runs on white label boxes so you can choose the hardware
  platform that fits your needs (what I've ordered so far comes with
  OcNOS pre-installed). Lots of hardware choices from Edgecore and
  UfiSpace. IP Infusion supports others, too. OcNOS is a full
  featured carrier-class routing/switching OS and includes full BNG,
  MPLS, L3/L2VPN suite, etc. A Ufispace S9510-28DC-9N0A with DC
  power and OcNOS MPLS license is about $8K and is comparable to the
  Juniper MX204 in terms of features, capacity and port count,
  including full route tables if used at the border. On the low-end,
  the Ufispace 9502-16MT with MPLS license and DC power is about
  $2200 and has all the same capabilities/features as the bigger
  box, just less capacity and port count. Great platform. I suppose
  technically the white label boxes are L3 switches in so much as
  the ASIC that runs it a switch chip at its hard, but all routing,
  label switching, and L2 switching (data plane) takes place in the
  ASIC. Control plane is handled by the CPU. Worth a look. We have
  OcNOS interoperating with Juniper, Mikrotik and NetElastic on
  OSPF/MPLS/VPLS.
  

On 1/11/24 11:16 AM,
  dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


  
  
  
  
Arista goes
both ways.  We have a number of Arista L3 switches, and also
a big modular chassis thing comparable to a Juniper MX.
Full routes
just depends on the model.  Some of them can’t do it.
 
We started
buying Arista a couple of years ago when Juniper changed
their pricing model.  Good products.  CLI almost identical
to Cisco, so it’s old hat.  I have no complaints with
Arista.
 
-Adam
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Daniel
  Pautz via AF
  Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:00 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Cc: Daniel Pautz 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
  

 
Is it really considered a router or just
  high end switch? Eg  does it take full multi tables, etc? 
  what model? I have always considered playing with some
  Arista’s.
 

  From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
On Behalf Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

  While not juniper and with no support we
have done very well with used Arista. We got 12x 100gb +24
x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k eaxh.

 

  
On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason
  McKemie <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
  wrote:
  
  

  Is this worth looking at or is it too
problematic from a support / update perspective? New
Juniper is not in my budget.

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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Josh Luthman]

The Juniper MX are routers.  Spectrum uses one here and it does the entire
area of something like 100k+ people.

I don't know the model, but Spectrum again uses a Juniper switch between
the MX router and Adva at customer sites.  It's a big fat switch.

They seem pretty good from a customer point of view.  I don't know what's
involved in buying and operating them.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:01 AM Daniel Pautz via AF 
wrote:

> Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take
> full multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing
> with some Arista’s.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used
> Arista. We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k
> eaxh.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[dmmoffett]

Arista goes both ways.  We have a number of Arista L3 switches, and also a big 
modular chassis thing comparable to a Juniper MX.

Full routes just depends on the model.  Some of them can’t do it.

 

We started buying Arista a couple of years ago when Juniper changed their 
pricing model.  Good products.  CLI almost identical to Cisco, so it’s old hat. 
 I have no complaints with Arista.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel Pautz via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 11:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take full 
multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing with some 
Arista’s.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

 

While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used Arista. 
We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k eaxh.

 

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote:

Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update 
perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.

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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Zach Underwood]

I am running a pair of Arista DCS-7280QRA-C36S-M-R
. By default it can take about 900k v4 routes which is a little short of a
full table. But airsta does have flexroute and FIB compression which both
reduce the actual number of routers in the RIB.

The two routers are running iBGP and I dont filter between then. I have 3x
full table upsteams, 2x ix connections and about 20 other bgp peers. I take
all routes from IX and bgp peers. From the full tables upstreams I take a
full table but only accept routes from there AS or one hop ways AS.
After the ASN path filter I get 154k routes from cogent, 94k from GTT and
230k from HE

My active routes on each router is less than 200k due to flexroute and FIB
compression.


On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 11:01 AM Daniel Pautz via AF 
wrote:

> Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take
> full multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing
> with some Arista’s.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper
>
>
>
> While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used
> Arista. We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k
> eaxh.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
advance-networking.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Christopher Tyler]

If you don't get it from a Juniper Authorized reseller or it hasn't been 
re-certified by Juniper and you ever want to update the software or need 
support from Juniper, they will make you get it re-certified by Juniper which 
costs about as much as just purchasing a new unit to start with. And on top of 
that, you have to do without the actual hardware while that re-certification 
takes place as you have to send the hardware to Juniper.


Christopher Tyler
Senior Network Engineer
Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
+1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
ch...@totalhighspeed.net
[cid:e40b5ce5-e5a6-4983-b489-d5a27056185d]
   Book time to meet with 
me

This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta 
institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.

From: AF  on behalf of Jason McKemie 

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update 
perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Daniel Pautz via AF]

Is it really considered a router or just high end switch? Eg  does it take full 
multi tables, etc?  what model? I have always considered playing with some 
Arista’s.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Zach Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 8:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used Arista. 
We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k eaxh.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie 
mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> 
wrote:
Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update 
perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Bill Prince]

Hang in there. Rumor is that Juniper may soon be a subsidiary of HPE. 
They're always known as teh bargain brand.



bp


On 1/10/2024 6:53 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / 
update perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.




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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Juniper has caught the "subscription required to use on an ongoing basis"
disease all big routing/switching companies seem to eventually catch.
 Plus HP is trying to acquire them.

The current used gear is probably usable but there seems to be some debate
how long this will last as far as any future software updates.

So... if you're happy with the functionality of current software,  they are
a solid option.   Just don't expect to be able to use the next generation
in a similar way.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 6:54 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Colin Stanners]

I had read (here?) that at one time any paying Juniper support account
holder had access to all product firmware files, so some companies would
buy the cheapest Juniper product - like a switch under $1000 - and its
cheap support contract, from a standard Juniper supplier, so they could get
firmware updates for all their eBay-sourced gear.


On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 8:54 p.m. Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Dev]

They basically last forever, more or less, and you can plop the old config into 
a shelf spare in case you brick your other box, pretty hard to beat. Online 
forum support is pretty good, and you can get any number of contractors to help 
you get unstuck if you can get your routing to behave.

> On Jan 10, 2024, at 6:53 PM, Jason McKemie  
> wrote:
> 
> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update 
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
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Re: [AFMUG] Used Juniper

[Zach Underwood]

While not juniper and with no support we have done very well with used
Arista. We got 12x 100gb +24 x40gb router that can do bgp for under 10k
eaxh.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024, 9:54 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Is this worth looking at or is it too problematic from a support / update
> perspective? New Juniper is not in my budget.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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