Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

[Chuck McCown]

You can charge for it if you are regulated.

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 6:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

Have you seen the battery backup requirements for VoIP lately?


On Aug 27, 2016 6:39 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I can do brownfield for $3500 or less.  $2500 if not expensive battery backed 
GPON.

  -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
  Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 10:19 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

  I'm with Ken on this. $50/sub does not seem possible. That doesn't even
  cover the ONT. I might believe $500/sub, but that might be a stretch
  depending on the neighborhood.

  Wasn't the $250 million a quarterly number though?


  bp
  

  On 8/27/2016 8:47 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Your numbers are confusing me, $250M for 5M subs would be $50 per sub. And 
supposedly Google spent $1 billion on Kansas City alone and the number of $1000 
per sub is thrown around for urban FTTH.

It also seems Rory is including the cost not just to build out FTTH, but to 
do it on an accelerated schedule and to do the marketing and promotions to get 
to 85% take rate.

Another takeaway I haven't heard much discussion about is that reportedly 
Google TV has been a dismal failure.  I'm not sure what their subscribers are 
using for their TV, probably OTT services?


-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I don't know why you would think it takes $250M to do 5M subs.  I do
construction in high density residential all day long at 5-10% of that cost.

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I am talking about Eagle Mountain Utah.  Lots of starter homes and super
stingy young Mormon families.  85% happens.  It truly does.

-Original Message- From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I understand that there are areas where you might have an 85% but that was
before the days of half of all households have someone on public assistance.
And if you notice, Google only cherry picked high income areas. If I
targeted only Scottsdale with houses that average $1M and up and my
competitor was crap, I'd get a high uptake also.  Most of our areas are
middle class, lower-middle class, and even below that.  Budget matters,
people are skeptical, and the effort needed to convert them is much higher.

As for the 5M number being realistic, depends on the investment and the
market.  If you are just targeting residential internet, it's going to be
very, very expensive, like north of $250M to get there within 5 years unless
you just buy everyone up.  But there are a lot of people in this country and
with average incomes at $30K, a lot of opportunity.  I also believe it's
possible to go much higher than that.  DSL is collapsing and the cable
companies are following the same stale path they always do without any real
innovations.

Rory


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

On 8/26/16 6:05 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


  i thought it was a rooter?



Only in Canada.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

[Chuck McCown]

Come to Utah,  I will show you.   Construction is happening every week day.

-Original Message- 
From: Rory Conaway

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I'm including all the costs of the entire company, not just the cost of 
deployment of each house.  And each house is about $300 average deployment. 
With all due respect, and adding in all the costs of deploying in a typical 
big city suburb and the time frame involved, 2 years, I'd like to see how 
you calculate that at being able to do 5M homes for $12-$25M dollars.


Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I don't know why you would think it takes $250M to do 5M subs.  I do 
construction in high density residential all day long at 5-10% of that cost.


-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I am talking about Eagle Mountain Utah.  Lots of starter homes and super 
stingy young Mormon families.  85% happens.  It truly does.


-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I understand that there are areas where you might have an 85% but that was 
before the days of half of all households have someone on public assistance.
And if you notice, Google only cherry picked high income areas.  If I 
targeted only Scottsdale with houses that average $1M and up and my 
competitor was crap, I'd get a high uptake also.  Most of our areas are 
middle class, lower-middle class, and even below that.  Budget matters, 
people are skeptical, and the effort needed to convert them is much higher.


As for the 5M number being realistic, depends on the investment and the 
market.  If you are just targeting residential internet, it's going to be 
very, very expensive, like north of $250M to get there within 5 years unless 
you just buy everyone up.  But there are a lot of people in this country and 
with average incomes at $30K, a lot of opportunity.  I also believe it's 
possible to go much higher than that.  DSL is collapsing and the cable 
companies are following the same stale path they always do without any real 
innovations.


Rory


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

On 8/26/16 6:05 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


i thought it was a rooter?



Only in Canada.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

[Chuck McCown]

My time frame for a dense big city type suburb is about 1 year start to 
finish.  I could push that to 6 months if I wanted.  I have don't it many 
times over.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

Come to Utah,  I will show you.   Construction is happening every week day.

-Original Message- 
From: Rory Conaway

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I'm including all the costs of the entire company, not just the cost of
deployment of each house.  And each house is about $300 average deployment.
With all due respect, and adding in all the costs of deploying in a typical
big city suburb and the time frame involved, 2 years, I'd like to see how
you calculate that at being able to do 5M homes for $12-$25M dollars.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I don't know why you would think it takes $250M to do 5M subs.  I do
construction in high density residential all day long at 5-10% of that cost.

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I am talking about Eagle Mountain Utah.  Lots of starter homes and super
stingy young Mormon families.  85% happens.  It truly does.

-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I understand that there are areas where you might have an 85% but that was
before the days of half of all households have someone on public assistance.
And if you notice, Google only cherry picked high income areas.  If I
targeted only Scottsdale with houses that average $1M and up and my
competitor was crap, I'd get a high uptake also.  Most of our areas are
middle class, lower-middle class, and even below that.  Budget matters,
people are skeptical, and the effort needed to convert them is much higher.

As for the 5M number being realistic, depends on the investment and the
market.  If you are just targeting residential internet, it's going to be
very, very expensive, like north of $250M to get there within 5 years unless
you just buy everyone up.  But there are a lot of people in this country and
with average incomes at $30K, a lot of opportunity.  I also believe it's
possible to go much higher than that.  DSL is collapsing and the cable
companies are following the same stale path they always do without any real
innovations.

Rory


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

On 8/26/16 6:05 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


i thought it was a rooter?



Only in Canada.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Chuck McCown]

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good one. 
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will go 
on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool 
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt 
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a pole 
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little slow 
in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.


-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful. 

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

[Chuck McCown]

That presumes you have contractors on tap with enough people for the size of 
the job.  A dearth of contractors would slow it down.


-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

My time frame for a dense big city type suburb is about 1 year start to
finish.  I could push that to 6 months if I wanted.  I have don't it many
times over.

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

Come to Utah,  I will show you.   Construction is happening every week day.

-Original Message- 
From: Rory Conaway

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I'm including all the costs of the entire company, not just the cost of
deployment of each house.  And each house is about $300 average deployment.
With all due respect, and adding in all the costs of deploying in a typical
big city suburb and the time frame involved, 2 years, I'd like to see how
you calculate that at being able to do 5M homes for $12-$25M dollars.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I don't know why you would think it takes $250M to do 5M subs.  I do
construction in high density residential all day long at 5-10% of that cost.

-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I am talking about Eagle Mountain Utah.  Lots of starter homes and super
stingy young Mormon families.  85% happens.  It truly does.

-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I understand that there are areas where you might have an 85% but that was
before the days of half of all households have someone on public assistance.
And if you notice, Google only cherry picked high income areas.  If I
targeted only Scottsdale with houses that average $1M and up and my
competitor was crap, I'd get a high uptake also.  Most of our areas are
middle class, lower-middle class, and even below that.  Budget matters,
people are skeptical, and the effort needed to convert them is much higher.

As for the 5M number being realistic, depends on the investment and the
market.  If you are just targeting residential internet, it's going to be
very, very expensive, like north of $250M to get there within 5 years unless
you just buy everyone up.  But there are a lot of people in this country and
with average incomes at $30K, a lot of opportunity.  I also believe it's
possible to go much higher than that.  DSL is collapsing and the cable
companies are following the same stale path they always do without any real
innovations.

Rory


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

On 8/26/16 6:05 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


i thought it was a rooter?



Only in Canada.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Chuck McCown]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will go
on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little slow
in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

[Chuck McCown]

I think Sterling spends less than I do.

-Original Message- 
From: Rory Conaway

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I'm including all the costs of the entire company, not just the cost of 
deployment of each house.  And each house is about $300 average deployment. 
With all due respect, and adding in all the costs of deploying in a typical 
big city suburb and the time frame involved, 2 years, I'd like to see how 
you calculate that at being able to do 5M homes for $12-$25M dollars.


Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:24 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: Google Fiber information

I don't know why you would think it takes $250M to do 5M subs.  I do 
construction in high density residential all day long at 5-10% of that cost.


-Original Message-
From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I am talking about Eagle Mountain Utah.  Lots of starter homes and super 
stingy young Mormon families.  85% happens.  It truly does.


-Original Message-
From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 8:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

I understand that there are areas where you might have an 85% but that was 
before the days of half of all households have someone on public assistance.
And if you notice, Google only cherry picked high income areas.  If I 
targeted only Scottsdale with houses that average $1M and up and my 
competitor was crap, I'd get a high uptake also.  Most of our areas are 
middle class, lower-middle class, and even below that.  Budget matters, 
people are skeptical, and the effort needed to convert them is much higher.


As for the 5M number being realistic, depends on the investment and the 
market.  If you are just targeting residential internet, it's going to be 
very, very expensive, like north of $250M to get there within 5 years unless 
you just buy everyone up.  But there are a lot of people in this country and 
with average incomes at $30K, a lot of opportunity.  I also believe it's 
possible to go much higher than that.  DSL is collapsing and the cable 
companies are following the same stale path they always do without any real 
innovations.


Rory


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber information

On 8/26/16 6:05 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


i thought it was a rooter?



Only in Canada.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Ken Hohhof]

Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck McCown

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will go
on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little slow
in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley

Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

[AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Paul McCall]

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
variables so I will re-ask the question.

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of post 
construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can come 
around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

Does that "ruling" change it we install conduit as well?

We have a bunch buildings to get "wired" over the next 60 days and I want to 
protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  

A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
> variables so I will re-ask the question.
>  
> If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
> post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
> come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
>  
> Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
>  
> We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
> protect ourselves if at all possible.
>  
> Paul
>  
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800  
> pa...@pdmnet.net 
> www.pdmnet.com 
> www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

We have some cheap Chinese 4 dollar sets that are sufficient. The only
things on my good 70 dollar but set that these don't have is dial memory
and the clips with a bunch of pins that penetrate the insulation so you
don't have to cut it.

On Aug 28, 2016 8:57 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.
>
> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linema
> ns-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606
>
> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>
> I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good one.
> More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will go
> on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
> Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
> pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
> set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a pole
> unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little slow
> in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.
>
> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>
> I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
> Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
> connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
> higher end sets that may be helpful.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
in a building, i'd love to see it.
thanks ;)

ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
realizing such an agreement is in place?




  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 


  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 


  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net


  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric


On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:


I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Mike Hammett]

I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe you're 
limited to exclusive marketing. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building 

 

IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
in a building, i'd love to see it. 
thanks ;) 

ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
realizing such an agreement is in place? 






A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights. The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 


My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet. If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 



Justin Wilson 
j...@mtin.net 


--- 
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO 
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth 


http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman 
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric 




On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall < pa...@pdmnet.net > wrote: 



I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
variables so I will re-ask the question. 

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of post 
construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can come 
around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also? 

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well? 

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
protect ourselves if at all possible. 

Paul 

Paul McCall, President 
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc. 
658 Old Dixie Highway 
Vero Beach, FL 32962 
772-564-6800 
pa...@pdmnet.net 
www.pdmnet.com 
www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Jaime Solorza]

Wow.. Sarcastic and cheap.. Lol

On Aug 28, 2016 11:06 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> We have some cheap Chinese 4 dollar sets that are sufficient. The only
> things on my good 70 dollar but set that these don't have is dial memory
> and the clips with a bunch of pins that penetrate the insulation so you
> don't have to cut it.
>
> On Aug 28, 2016 8:57 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:
>
>> Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linema
>> ns-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>
>> I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good
>> one.
>> More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will go
>> on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
>> Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
>> pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
>> set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a
>> pole
>> unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little
>> slow
>> in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>
>> I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
>> Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
>> connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
>> higher end sets that may be helpful.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Nate Burke]

I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS 
lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?  
If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you 
just plug a test handset into an RJ11?


I've been very happy with this set 
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136




On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606 



-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good 
one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that 
will go

on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a 
pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little 
slow

in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Nate Burke]

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would 
that allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming 
in?  We've run into that in a few class A buildings. 'Oh, you need a cat 
5 run from floor 3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only 
company allowed to do work in the riser.


On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser 
rights” when it comes to buildings.


If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to 
provide your product to that building.


Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for 
running your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, 
but I don’t see that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is 
mainly due to a franchise fee is typically higher and more beneficial 
to the building owner.


A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an 
essential service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can 
pressure the building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have 
seen tenants want to order landline phones in buildings where a WISP 
had exclusive rights.  The tenant is going to be favored by the 
building owner almost every time.


My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to 
your services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an 
exclusive franchise for providing data services.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net 

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall > wrote:


I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I 
recall a few variables so I will re-ask the question.
If our company goes into a building and wires (either 
pre-construction of post construction), will a contract legally cover 
us so that nobody else can come around and claim rights to use that 
to distribute a service also?

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I 
want to protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net 
www.pdmnet.com 
www.floridabroadband.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Paul McCall]

Let me back this train up a little bit.  My primary concern question is…. If I 
run Fiber throughout a building (or copper), can building owner and I have a 
contract where only I can use the very wire/fiber that I installed?  I would 
the answer at that basic level would be a yes, but am not positive.

Not even thinking about exclusive rights to market a service to the building.

Just want to see if I can “own” the wire/fiber that I put in the building.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from floor 
3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed to do 
work in the riser.
On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.

A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time.

My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services.

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall 
mailto:pa...@pdmnet.net>> wrote:

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
variables so I will re-ask the question.

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of post 
construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can come 
around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
protect ourselves if at all possible.

Paul

Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

If your contract with them doesn’t say its yours then it becomes part of the 
structure, thus theirs. 

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> Let me back this train up a little bit.  My primary concern question is…. If 
> I run Fiber throughout a building (or copper), can building owner and I have 
> a contract where only I can use the very wire/fiber that I installed?  I 
> would the answer at that basic level would be a yes, but am not positive.
>  
> Not even thinking about exclusive rights to market a service to the building.
>  
> Just want to see if I can “own” the wire/fiber that I put in the building. 
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:31 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
>  
> If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
> allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
> run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from 
> floor 3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed 
> to do work in the riser. 
> 
> On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
> I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
> when it comes to buildings.
>  
> If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
> product to that building.
>  
> Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
> your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
> that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
> fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  
>  
> A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
> service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the 
> building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to 
> order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The 
> tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 
>  
> My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
> services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
> franchise for providing data services. 
>  
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net 
>  
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>  
> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  > wrote:
>  
> I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
> variables so I will re-ask the question.
>  
> If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
> post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
> come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
>  
> Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
>  
> We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
> protect ourselves if at all possible.
>  
> Paul
>  
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800  
> pa...@pdmnet.net 
> www.pdmnet.com 
> www.floridabroadband.com 
>  
>  

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-cut-with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8

"Sure, a landlord can’t enter into an exclusive agreement granting just one ISP 
the right to provide Internet access service to an MDU, but a landlord can 
refuse to sign agreements with anyone other than Big Company X, in exchange for 
payments labeled in any one of a zillion ways. Exclusivity by any other name 
still feels just as abusive.”

Apartment owner across the river has a local WISP.  ATT tried to strong arm him 
into giving access.  He said sure, but all payments have to be made in cash, in 
person, on such and such day.  ATT didn’t agree to the terms so he effectively 
kept them out.  His next tactic is to have them pay in bitcoin should they ask 
again.



Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe 
> you're limited to exclusive marketing.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
> 
> 
>  
> IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
> in a building, i'd love to see it.
> thanks ;)
>  
> ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
> realizing such an agreement is in place?
>  
> 
> A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
> service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the 
> building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to 
> order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The 
> tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 
> 
> My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
> services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
> franchise for providing data services. 
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> 
> On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> 
> I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a few 
> variables so I will re-ask the question.
> If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
> post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
> come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
> Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
> We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want to 
> protect ourselves if at all possible.
> Paul
> Paul McCall, President
> PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> 658 Old Dixie Highway
> Vero Beach, FL 32962
> 772-564-6800  
> pa...@pdmnet.net
> www.pdmnet.com
> www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Service in Coatsville IN

[Justin Wilson]

Eric Rogers at PDS in Mooresville.


Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 25, 2016, at 3:19 PM, Roland Houin  wrote:
> 
> does anyone service
> 
> Coatsville, In 46121 at
> 2518 South County Road 550 West.
> 
> We have a customer who moved from our area to Coatsville.
> desperate for service
> 
> Roland Houin
> Fourway.Net
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Josh Reynolds]

I find it shameful that this thread is advocating one of the very things
that WISPs and small/regional ISPs have been fighting against for years
when it comes to MDUs.

On Aug 28, 2016 3:47 PM, "Justin Wilson"  wrote:

> https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-
> cut-with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8
>
> "Sure, a landlord can’t enter into an exclusive agreement granting just
> one ISP the right to provide Internet access service to an MDU, but a
> landlord can refuse to sign agreements with anyone other than Big Company
> X, in exchange for payments labeled in any one of a zillion ways.
> Exclusivity by any other name still feels just as abusive.”
>
> Apartment owner across the river has a local WISP.  ATT tried to strong
> arm him into giving access.  He said sure, but all payments have to be made
> in cash, in person, on such and such day.  ATT didn’t agree to the terms so
> he effectively kept them out.  His next tactic is to have them pay in
> bitcoin should they ask again.
>
>
>
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net
>
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
>
> http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
>
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> >
> > I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe
> you're limited to exclusive marketing.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange
> >
> > The Brothers WISP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
> >
> > 
> >
> > IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive
> access in a building, i'd love to see it.
> > thanks ;)
> >
> > ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco
> themselves not realizing such an agreement is in place?
> >
> >
> > A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential
> service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the
> building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want
> to order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.
> The tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time.
> >
> > My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to
> your services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an
> exclusive franchise for providing data services.
> >
> > Justin Wilson
> > j...@mtin.net
> >
> > ---
> > http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
> > xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> >
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
> > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> >
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:
> >
> > I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a
> few variables so I will re-ask the question.
> > If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction
> of post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else
> can come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
> > Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
> > We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I
> want to protect ourselves if at all possible.
> > Paul
> > Paul McCall, President
> > PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> > 658 Old Dixie Highway
> > Vero Beach, FL 32962
> > 772-564-6800
> > pa...@pdmnet.net
> > www.pdmnet.com
> > www.floridabroadband.com
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Ken Hohhof]

Sure, but why carry both a butt set and a test phone?  And test phones tend 
to be awkward and get beat up.  Butt sets are meant to be dropped, tossed in 
a van, etc.


After a bug with Cisco ATA firmware several years back where they weren't 
passing CID to the phone, I want to be able to test that at install time, or 
troubleshoot if a customer claims they aren't getting CID info.  Some of 
these old farmers have phones that are not CID capable.  Hell, I've had more 
then one with a rotary dial phone who complained we couldn't handle pulse 
dialing.



-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS
lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?
If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you
just plug a test handset into an RJ11?

I've been very happy with this set
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136



On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good 
one.

More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will go
on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a 
pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little 
slow

in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Nate Burke]

Do you carry an extra RJ11 cord then to plug in the butt set?  How do 
you connect the butt set to the ATA when the buttset has clips?


On 8/28/2016 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Sure, but why carry both a butt set and a test phone? And test phones 
tend to be awkward and get beat up.  Butt sets are meant to be 
dropped, tossed in a van, etc.


After a bug with Cisco ATA firmware several years back where they 
weren't passing CID to the phone, I want to be able to test that at 
install time, or troubleshoot if a customer claims they aren't getting 
CID info.  Some of these old farmers have phones that are not CID 
capable.  Hell, I've had more then one with a rotary dial phone who 
complained we couldn't handle pulse dialing.



-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS
lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?
If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you
just plug a test handset into an RJ11?

I've been very happy with this set
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136



On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606 



-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a 
good one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that 
will go

on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first 
butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of 
a pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a 
little slow

in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Josh Luthman]

One of those donuts with an rj11 and labeled tabs.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> Do you carry an extra RJ11 cord then to plug in the butt set?  How do you
> connect the butt set to the ATA when the buttset has clips?
>
> On 8/28/2016 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>> Sure, but why carry both a butt set and a test phone? And test phones
>> tend to be awkward and get beat up.  Butt sets are meant to be dropped,
>> tossed in a van, etc.
>>
>> After a bug with Cisco ATA firmware several years back where they weren't
>> passing CID to the phone, I want to be able to test that at install time,
>> or troubleshoot if a customer claims they aren't getting CID info.  Some of
>> these old farmers have phones that are not CID capable.  Hell, I've had
>> more then one with a rotary dial phone who complained we couldn't handle
>> pulse dialing.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:22 PM
>>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>
>> I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS
>> lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?
>> If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you
>> just plug a test handset into an RJ11?
>>
>> I've been very happy with this set
>> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>> Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>>
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linema
>>> ns-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
>>> To: Animal Farm
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>>
>>> I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good
>>> one.
>>> More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will
>>> go
>>> on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
>>> Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
>>> pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
>>> set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a
>>> pole
>>> unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little
>>> slow
>>> in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
>>> To: Animal Farm
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>>
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
>>> Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
>>> connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
>>> higher end sets that may be helpful.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Ken Hohhof]

Yeah, or if money is no object, Fluke does sell a cable that has both.
LEAD-ABNPRJ11

I'm not saying I have one of those, though.  More like one of these:
https://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/ECAT_GI_page.aspx?GI_ID=tt_modapt


-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

Do you carry an extra RJ11 cord then to plug in the butt set?  How do
you connect the butt set to the ATA when the buttset has clips?

On 8/28/2016 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Sure, but why carry both a butt set and a test phone? And test phones tend 
to be awkward and get beat up.  Butt sets are meant to be dropped, tossed 
in a van, etc.


After a bug with Cisco ATA firmware several years back where they weren't 
passing CID to the phone, I want to be able to test that at install time, 
or troubleshoot if a customer claims they aren't getting CID info.  Some 
of these old farmers have phones that are not CID capable.  Hell, I've had 
more then one with a rotary dial phone who complained we couldn't handle 
pulse dialing.



-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS
lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?
If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you
just plug a test handset into an RJ11?

I've been very happy with this set
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136



On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good 
one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will 
go

on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a 
pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little 
slow

in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Chuck McCown]

Nothing at all.  The regulated telco has a “duty to serve” and is frequently 
the “provider of last resort”.  So if someone wants their service normally they 
can not be prevented from getting it.  The landowner can block access in some 
states.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 11:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building


IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive access 
in a building, i'd love to see it.
thanks ;)

ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves not 
realizing such an agreement is in place?



  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.
If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.
Paul
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Chuck McCown]

Make sure to tag everything with your name.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from floor 
3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed to do 
work in the riser.  


On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:

  I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

  If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

  Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  

  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

  Justin Wilson
  j...@mtin.net

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth


  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.
 
If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
 
Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
 
We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.
 
Paul
 
Paul McCall, President
PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
658 Old Dixie Highway
Vero Beach, FL 32962
772-564-6800  
pa...@pdmnet.net
www.pdmnet.com
www.floridabroadband.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Chuck McCown]

I think the answer to that is a big YES.   Your wire, you control it.  
Not so for old telco wire.  When Ma Bell was de-regulated, the existing 
building wiring became property of the building owner.  

From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

Let me back this train up a little bit.  My primary concern question is…. If I 
run Fiber throughout a building (or copper), can building owner and I have a 
contract where only I can use the very wire/fiber that I installed?  I would 
the answer at that basic level would be a yes, but am not positive.

 

Not even thinking about exclusive rights to market a service to the building.

 

Just want to see if I can “own” the wire/fiber that I put in the building.  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

 

If you can get the contract to be the 'riser management' company, would that 
allow you to set high rates and discourage anyone else from coming in?  We've 
run into that in a few class A buildings.  'Oh, you need a cat 5 run from floor 
3 to floor 5, that will be $5000, and we are the only company allowed to do 
work in the riser.  

On 8/28/2016 11:19 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:

  I have typically ran across the terms “Franchise rights” and “Riser rights” 
when it comes to buildings.

   

  If you have franchise rights you are the only one with rights to provide your 
product to that building.

   

  Riser rights just gives you access to to raceways, risers, etc. for running 
your cable.   You could get exclusive access to such things, but I don’t see 
that as often as franchise rights.  I think this is mainly due to a franchise 
fee is typically higher and more beneficial to the building owner.  

   

  A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the building 
owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want to order 
landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  The tenant is 
going to be favored by the building owner almost every time. 

   

  My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
franchise for providing data services. 

   

  Justin Wilson

  j...@mtin.net

   

  ---
  http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO

  xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

  http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman

  Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

   

On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  wrote:

 

I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
few variables so I will re-ask the question.

 

If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else can 
come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?

 

Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?

 

We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
to protect ourselves if at all possible.

 

Paul

 

Paul McCall, President

PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800  

pa...@pdmnet.net

www.pdmnet.com

www.floridabroadband.com

   

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Chuck McCown]

Banjo
https://www.amazon.com/Paladin-Tools-1903-Modular-Adapter/dp/B6HYVQ

-Original Message- 
From: Nate Burke

Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

Do you carry an extra RJ11 cord then to plug in the butt set?  How do
you connect the butt set to the ATA when the buttset has clips?

On 8/28/2016 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Sure, but why carry both a butt set and a test phone? And test phones tend 
to be awkward and get beat up.  Butt sets are meant to be dropped, tossed 
in a van, etc.


After a bug with Cisco ATA firmware several years back where they weren't 
passing CID to the phone, I want to be able to test that at install time, 
or troubleshoot if a customer claims they aren't getting CID info.  Some 
of these old farmers have phones that are not CID capable.  Hell, I've had 
more then one with a rotary dial phone who complained we couldn't handle 
pulse dialing.



-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS
lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?
If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you
just plug a test handset into an RJ11?

I've been very happy with this set
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136



On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good 
one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will 
go

on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a 
pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little 
slow

in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

[AFMUG] interview with Brocade CEO

[Ken Hohhof]

Good read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/business/lloyd-carney-think-youre-irreplaceable-take-the-bucket-test.html

Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building

[Justin Wilson]

Do you think the telco or Cableco or local fiber company wouldn’t hesitate to 
do it to you? It just makes good business sense to give yourself as much of an 
edge as possible.  Ive been on the receiving end of ATT coming into a property 
and demanding access to the wiring.  When they can sell $14.95 DSL and all your 
customer has to do is plug into the jack next to you it kinda sucks. Ive also 
tried to get into buildings and towns that were monopolized by someone.  Ask 
Chuck Hogg about his latest dealings with a town near him.  The mayor, using a 
franchise agreement, was no friend to Chuck bringing in fiber.  

Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net

---
http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO
xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth

http://www.midwest-ix.com  COO/Chairman
Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric

> On Aug 28, 2016, at 5:19 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> I find it shameful that this thread is advocating one of the very things that 
> WISPs and small/regional ISPs have been fighting against for years when it 
> comes to MDUs.
> 
> 
> On Aug 28, 2016 3:47 PM, "Justin Wilson"  > wrote:
> https://backchannel.com/the-new-payola-deals-landlords-cut-with-internet-providers-cf60200aa9e9#.l6a38myj8
>  
> 
> 
> "Sure, a landlord can’t enter into an exclusive agreement granting just one 
> ISP the right to provide Internet access service to an MDU, but a landlord 
> can refuse to sign agreements with anyone other than Big Company X, in 
> exchange for payments labeled in any one of a zillion ways. Exclusivity by 
> any other name still feels just as abusive.”
> 
> Apartment owner across the river has a local WISP.  ATT tried to strong arm 
> him into giving access.  He said sure, but all payments have to be made in 
> cash, in person, on such and such day.  ATT didn’t agree to the terms so he 
> effectively kept them out.  His next tactic is to have them pay in bitcoin 
> should they ask again.
> 
> 
> 
> Justin Wilson
> j...@mtin.net 
> 
> ---
> http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
> xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
> Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> 
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 1:52 PM, Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > I don't believe exclusive contracts are permitted by the FCC. I believe 
> > you're limited to exclusive marketing.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange
> >
> > The Brothers WISP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > >
> > To: af@afmug.com 
> > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 12:46:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ownership of wire / fiber in a building
> >
> > 
> >
> > IF anyone has any paperwork they can share for accomplishing exclusive 
> > access in a building, i'd love to see it.
> > thanks ;)
> >
> > ps - what prevents a tenant from ordering service from a telco themselves 
> > not realizing such an agreement is in place?
> >
> >
> > A telco can cry foul and play the fact that telephones are an essential 
> > service. Even if they can’t legally do anything, they can pressure the 
> > building owner enough where it becomes an issue. I have seen tenants want 
> > to order landline phones in buildings where a WISP had exclusive rights.  
> > The tenant is going to be favored by the building owner almost every time.
> >
> > My advice get exclusive access to any pathways for cable in regards to your 
> > services with the ability to sublet.  If you can get it, get an exclusive 
> > franchise for providing data services.
> >
> > Justin Wilson
> > j...@mtin.net 
> >
> > ---
> > http://www.mtin.net  Owner/CEO
> > xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth
> >
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com   COO/Chairman
> > Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
> >
> > On Aug 28, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Paul McCall  > > wrote:
> >
> > I know that has been discussed several times in the past, but I recall a 
> > few variables so I will re-ask the question.
> > If our company goes into a building and wires (either pre-construction of 
> > post construction), will a contract legally cover us so that nobody else 
> > can come around and claim rights to use that to distribute a service also?
> > Does that “ruling” change it we install conduit as well?
> > We have a bunch buildings to get “wired” over the next 60 days and I want 
> > to protect ourselves if at all possible.
> > Paul
> > Paul McCall, President
> > PDMNet, Inc. / Florida Broadband, Inc.
> > 658 Old Dixie Highway
> > Vero Beach, FL 32962
> > 772-564-6800 
> > pa...@pdmnet.net 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Jay Weekley]

Bought it.  Chuck wins!

Chuck McCown wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606 



-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good 
one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that 
will go

on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a 
pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little 
slow

in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Rob Genovesi]

+1 Banjo.

And these are handy if you are working on 66-blocks a lot:
https://www.amazon.com/Siemon-TESTAR-2-Block-Adapter-2-Wire/dp/B00F3W7LES/



On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> Banjo
> https://www.amazon.com/Paladin-Tools-1903-Modular-Adapter/dp/B6HYVQ
>
> -Original Message- From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:34 PM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>
> Do you carry an extra RJ11 cord then to plug in the butt set?  How do
> you connect the butt set to the ATA when the buttset has clips?
>
> On 8/28/2016 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Sure, but why carry both a butt set and a test phone? And test phones tend
>> to be awkward and get beat up.  Butt sets are meant to be dropped, tossed in
>> a van, etc.
>>
>> After a bug with Cisco ATA firmware several years back where they weren't
>> passing CID to the phone, I want to be able to test that at install time, or
>> troubleshoot if a customer claims they aren't getting CID info.  Some of
>> these old farmers have phones that are not CID capable.  Hell, I've had more
>> then one with a rotary dial phone who complained we couldn't handle pulse
>> dialing.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Nate Burke
>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:22 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>
>> I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS
>> lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?
>> If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you
>> just plug a test handset into an RJ11?
>>
>> I've been very happy with this set
>> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
>>> To: Animal Farm
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>>
>>> I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good
>>> one.
>>> More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will
>>> go
>>> on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
>>> Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
>>> pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
>>> set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a
>>> pole
>>> unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little
>>> slow
>>> in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
>>> To: Animal Farm
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts
>>>
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
>>> Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
>>> connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
>>> higher end sets that may be helpful.
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

[Jay Weekley]

Well, that's the best thing since sliced bread if I am looking at that 
thing properly.


Rob Genovesi wrote:

+1 Banjo.

And these are handy if you are working on 66-blocks a lot:
https://www.amazon.com/Siemon-TESTAR-2-Block-Adapter-2-Wire/dp/B00F3W7LES/



On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Banjo
https://www.amazon.com/Paladin-Tools-1903-Modular-Adapter/dp/B6HYVQ

-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

Do you carry an extra RJ11 cord then to plug in the butt set?  How do
you connect the butt set to the ATA when the buttset has clips?

On 8/28/2016 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Sure, but why carry both a butt set and a test phone? And test phones tend
to be awkward and get beat up.  Butt sets are meant to be dropped, tossed in
a van, etc.

After a bug with Cisco ATA firmware several years back where they weren't
passing CID to the phone, I want to be able to test that at install time, or
troubleshoot if a customer claims they aren't getting CID info.  Some of
these old farmers have phones that are not CID capable.  Hell, I've had more
then one with a rotary dial phone who complained we couldn't handle pulse
dialing.


-Original Message- From: Nate Burke
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 1:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I have only needed to use a buttset to test outgoing calls on POTS
lines.  When would you use it for incoming calls and need CID display?
If you're already to the point of taking incoming calls, wouldn't you
just plug a test handset into an RJ11?

I've been very happy with this set
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8136



On 8/28/2016 8:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Make sure to get one with caller ID name & number display.

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 4:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts


http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-DRACON-DIVISION-M332-1-Linemans-Telephone-Phone-Line-Tester-BUTT-SET-/232058877606

-Original Message- From: Chuck McCown
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 3:08 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I don't know if they still make them, but the Harris Dracon was a good
one.
More importantly are the clips.  You want the expensive clips that will
go
on a 66 block, but have bed of nails and the piercing pins.
Speakerphone is good.  Nice heavy duty clip to clip on your belt to tool
pouch is good.  Weatherproof is good.  Drop proof is good.  My first butt
set was a 100% rubber BECO.  It would survive a drop from the top of a
pole
unless it fell with the dial against a rock.  Dial would move a little
slow
in sub zero weather and you would have to force it back.

-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 9:37 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Butt setts

I'm looking for recommendations for butt sets for some upcoming jobs.
Basically I need to get dial tone and and verify the number I am
connected to but not sure of other features that may come with the
higher end sets that may be helpful.