Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The tool you're looking for in relation to the monitoring is a packetflux
sitemonitor base unit.

Others can point you toward the chargers.

On Dec 26, 2016 11:36 PM, "Josh Corson"  wrote:

> What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
> standard off the shelve UPS?
> The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
> of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
> buy batteries.
> However, what are you using for:
>
> 1. Inverter / charger
> 2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
> The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
> monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
> models at 1k.
>
> Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
> bank...
>
> If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
> Josh
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Gino Villarini]

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson"  wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Gino Villarini]

Yikes ! Soap? You are not doing your face any favors…

I you don’t use shaving cream, the best next thing to shave is hair conditioner…

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Chuck 
McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Monday, December 26, 2016 at 4:56 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Wow, one a week.  I should treat myself.
I can’t see well enough without glasses to easily change a blade in the shower.
I just apply a bar of Irish spring and start scraping my face.

And I forget to ask my wife or to remember to change them at other times.
Once it starts taking 15 minutes to shave, I get around to asking her.


From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

$6/month for 4

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

On Dec 26, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

What is the cost and how many do you get for the money?

From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

I've done well with DSC.  only issue is that I'm accumulating them faster than 
I'm using them, so I'm going to have to shut off my account.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

On Dec 26, 2016, at 3:26 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:

I tried the most expensive DSC one a while back.  The first time it touched my 
face it pulled.  I struggled like hell to shave my face.   Second blade didn't 
help.

I just buy a whole bunch of good ones from Meijer with Santa bucks every 
December, roughly $50 worth.  I think it's Gillette?  Orange and blue.  Coupons 
in the first package for the second, so on so forth.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Dec 26, 2016 2:47 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Gino Villarini]

WowŠ I shave once a weekŠ my gilletes last about 4 shavesŠ

I think its because I shave both waysŠ first downward, then upward Š its a
very smooth shave

On 12/26/16, 4:18 PM, "Af on behalf of Chuck McCown"  wrote:

>I use 4 a year...once per season.  They are more of a cheese grater
>toward
>the end.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jay Weekley
>Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:16 PM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades
>
>Am I the only guy that uses his razor blades until they start pulling
>the hairs out by the roots?
>
>Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
>> If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13655 - Release Date:
>>12/26/16
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything
off DC?  You mention inverter so I'm thinking you want an AC system?

 

Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be in
an outdoor temperature environment?

 

And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too expensive?

 

If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank to,
that is spec'd for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built in,
look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.
FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I'd look at FXM1100 as long
as you're OK with a 48V battery string.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" mailto:j...@bluebitnetworks.com> >
wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Josh Reynolds]

If you decide you want moar power...

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php

On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

> The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
> version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
> shipping.
>
> Hard to beat that with a stick.
>
> Have several pis now.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
> so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on kits
> for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would be
> more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
> and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are alot
> of bootleg devices, etc
>
> is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about them
> but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time to
> get with 2016
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Josh Reynolds]

I've been using this for awhile:
https://www.amazon.com/Van-Der-Hagen-Safety-Razor/dp/B00E6BQEEA

Disclaimer: I currently only use it to clean up my neck line, as I've had
pretty much a perpetual beard for the past 3 years. I was also in the army
and would sometimes have to shave using very unorthodox methods at 4am in
the woods in winter with no water, so my skin isn't exactly "sensitive".

On Dec 27, 2016 4:47 AM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> WowŠ I shave once a weekŠ my gilletes last about 4 shavesŠ
>
> I think its because I shave both waysŠ first downward, then upward Š its a
> very smooth shave
>
> On 12/26/16, 4:18 PM, "Af on behalf of Chuck McCown" 
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> on behalf of ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> >I use 4 a year...once per season.  They are more of a cheese grater
> >toward
> >the end.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Jay Weekley
> >Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:16 PM
> >To: af@afmug.com
> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades
> >
> >Am I the only guy that uses his razor blades until they start pulling
> >the hairs out by the roots?
> >
> >Chuck McCown wrote:
> >> Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
> >> If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?
> >>
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> >> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13655 - Release Date:
> >>12/26/16
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Bay Area - Politics

[Josh Reynolds]

They literally made a story off of Joe Rogan's podcast, which is pretty
lame IMO.

That said, Joe's podcast is amazing.

Politics, religion, science, drugs, sex, more science, DMT trips, MMA /
boxing, the life of a stand-up comic, crazy conspiracies, etc. Super fun
show with some actually amazing interviews.

He had Ron White on there the other day. The podcast didn't get going until
they blazed a spiff and had Ron taking shots of Jack Daniels :)

Steve, you should find one of the more recent episodes with Joey Diaz,
you'd love him. Think of a 60s or 70s hard partying Italian in NY/NJ. No
filter.

He does his advertisements at the beginning of each podcast, so just skip
to about 5 minutes in and you should be good :P

On Dec 26, 2016 2:01 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> Apologies to Bill
>
> Metallica’s James Hetfield:
>
>
> "I kind of got sick of the Bay Area, the attitudes of the people there, a
> little bit," he said. "They talk about how diverse they are, and things
> like that, and it's fine if you're diverse like them. But showing up with a
> deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County. My form of eating organic
> doesn't vibe with theirs.". . . "there was an elitist attitude there —
> that if you weren't their way politically, their way environmentally, all
> of that, that you were looked down upon."
>
> I experienced the exact same thing in Humboldt County 26 years ago.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Gino Villarini]

Why would you need to shave in the woods at 4am? Is that part of combat 
readiness?

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh 
Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 10:49 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

I've been using this for awhile:
https://www.amazon.com/Van-Der-Hagen-Safety-Razor/dp/B00E6BQEEA

Disclaimer: I currently only use it to clean up my neck line, as I've had 
pretty much a perpetual beard for the past 3 years. I was also in the army and 
would sometimes have to shave using very unorthodox methods at 4am in the woods 
in winter with no water, so my skin isn't exactly "sensitive".




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Dec 27, 2016 4:47 AM, "Gino Villarini" 
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
WowŠ I shave once a weekŠ my gilletes last about 4 shavesŠ

I think its because I shave both waysŠ first downward, then upward Š its a
very smooth shave

On 12/26/16, 4:18 PM, "Af on behalf of Chuck McCown" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

on behalf of ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

>I use 4 a year...once per season.  They are more of a cheese grater
>toward
>the end.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jay Weekley
>Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:16 PM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades
>
>Am I the only guy that uses his razor blades until they start pulling
>the hairs out by the roots?
>
>Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
>> If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13655 - Release Date:
>>12/26/16
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Josh Luthman]

Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries
Plus.  We get some good deals on them.

New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell
AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be
deploying Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll
have to go with Packetflux.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything
> off DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC system?
>
>
>
> Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be
> in an outdoor temperature environment?
>
>
>
> And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too expensive?
>
>
>
> If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank to,
> that is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built in,
> look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.
> FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long
> as you’re OK with a 48V battery string.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>
>
>
> Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system
>
> On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" 
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
>
> President
>
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:
>
> >What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
> >standard off the shelve UPS?
> >The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
> >of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
> >buy batteries.
> >However, what are you using for:
> >
> >1. Inverter / charger
> >2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
> >
> >The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
> >monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
> >models at 1k.
> >
> >Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
> >bank...
> >
> >If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
> >
> >Josh
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Josh Luthman]

You can subscribe to once every 2 months for sure.  Maybe even every 3
months.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
wrote:

> $6/month for 4
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
> 312-205-2519 <(312)%20205-2519> Office
> 574-220-7826 <(574)%20220-7826> Cell
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
> On Dec 26, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> What is the cost and how many do you get for the money?
>
> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2016 1:31 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades
>
> I've done well with DSC.  only issue is that I'm accumulating them faster
> than I'm using them, so I'm going to have to shut off my account.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
> 312-205-2519 <(312)%20205-2519> Office
> 574-220-7826 <(574)%20220-7826> Cell
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
> On Dec 26, 2016, at 3:26 PM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> I tried the most expensive DSC one a while back.  The first time it
> touched my face it pulled.  I struggled like hell to shave my face.
> Second blade didn't help.
>
> I just buy a whole bunch of good ones from Meijer with Santa bucks every
> December, roughly $50 worth.  I think it's Gillette?  Orange and blue.
> Coupons in the first package for the second, so on so forth.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Dec 26, 2016 2:47 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
>> If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Josh Reynolds]

Military requires you to be clean shaven every day. It's part of discipline
/ professional appearance, and in the case of a chemical weapon attack
clean skin helps your protective (gas) mask seal against your face.

On Dec 27, 2016 8:54 AM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> Why would you need to shave in the woods at 4am? Is that part of combat
> readiness?
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Reynolds <
> j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 10:49 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades
>
> I've been using this for awhile:
> https://www.amazon.com/Van-Der-Hagen-Safety-Razor/dp/B00E6BQEEA
>
> Disclaimer: I currently only use it to clean up my neck line, as I've had
> pretty much a perpetual beard for the past 3 years. I was also in the army
> and would sometimes have to shave using very unorthodox methods at 4am in
> the woods in winter with no water, so my skin isn't exactly "sensitive".
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 4:47 AM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>
>> WowŠ I shave once a weekŠ my gilletes last about 4 shavesŠ
>>
>> I think its because I shave both waysŠ first downward, then upward Š its a
>> very smooth shave
>>
>> On 12/26/16, 4:18 PM, "Af on behalf of Chuck McCown" <
>> af-boun...@afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> on behalf of ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I use 4 a year...once per season.  They are more of a cheese grater
>> >toward
>> >the end.
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: Jay Weekley
>> >Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:16 PM
>> >To: af@afmug.com
>> >Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades
>> >
>> >Am I the only guy that uses his razor blades until they start pulling
>> >the hairs out by the roots?
>> >
>> >Chuck McCown wrote:
>> >> Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
>> >> If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?
>> >>
>> >> No virus found in this message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> >> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13655 - Release Date:
>> >>12/26/16
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Adam Moffett]

That Alpha FXM looks like a really nice one-and-done type of solution.  
Unfortunately if you need A/C, then I think every good option is kind of 
in that price bracket.


If you went all DC you'll have a lot more parts and assembly, and when 
it's all done you might only save a few hundred bucks.. IMO the 
reason to use all DC is you'll save enclosure space, gain a little 
efficiency, and you end up with a modular system you can add new 
features onto like a switchable PoE injector or what-not.


I've used an inverter/charger from AIMS power.  I think their smallest 
unit is 2000 watts though, so it might be a waste for only 600 watts.  
If you do get an inverter/charger, the cheapest thing you can add to 
tell if your power is on or off is any managed device that you plug into 
AC and just ping it.  You might use (for example) a WiFi AP; which is 
convenient to have at your site anyway, but doesn't affect service to 
customers when it goes down.  When that device goes down you know your 
power is off.  The second cheapest thing is a Packetflux Site Monitor, 
and that gives you a lot more options such as the option to add a 
current shunt in line with your battery.




-- Original Message --
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/27/2016 9:21:32 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run 
everything off DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC 
system?




Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it 
be in an outdoor temperature environment?




And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too 
expensive?




If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank 
to, that is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features 
built in, look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you 
quotes.  FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I’d look at 
FXM1100 as long as you’re OK with a 48V battery string.






From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites



Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" 




Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a 
battery

>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Gino Villarini]

Nice to know…. I only made it to CAP cadet :-)



From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh 
Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:09 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

Military requires you to be clean shaven every day. It's part of discipline / 
professional appearance, and in the case of a chemical weapon attack clean skin 
helps your protective (gas) mask seal against your face.




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Dec 27, 2016 8:54 AM, "Gino Villarini" 
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
Why would you need to shave in the woods at 4am? Is that part of combat 
readiness?

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh 
Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 10:49 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

I've been using this for awhile:
https://www.amazon.com/Van-Der-Hagen-Safety-Razor/dp/B00E6BQEEA

Disclaimer: I currently only use it to clean up my neck line, as I've had 
pretty much a perpetual beard for the past 3 years. I was also in the army and 
would sometimes have to shave using very unorthodox methods at 4am in the woods 
in winter with no water, so my skin isn't exactly "sensitive".




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Dec 27, 2016 4:47 AM, "Gino Villarini" 
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
WowŠ I shave once a weekŠ my gilletes last about 4 shavesŠ

I think its because I shave both waysŠ first downward, then upward Š its a
very smooth shave

On 12/26/16, 4:18 PM, "Af on behalf of Chuck McCown" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

on behalf of ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

>I use 4 a year...once per season.  They are more of a cheese grater
>toward
>the end.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Jay Weekley
>Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:16 PM
>To: af@afmug.com
>Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades
>
>Am I the only guy that uses his razor blades until they start pulling
>the hairs out by the roots?
>
>Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
>> If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 2016.0.7924 / Virus Database: 4739/13655 - Release Date:
>>12/26/16
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Gino Villarini]

Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ?

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh 
Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries Plus.  
We get some good deals on them.

New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell 
AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be deploying 
Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll have to go 
with Packetflux.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything off 
DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC system?

Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be in an 
outdoor temperature environment?

And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too expensive?

If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank to, that 
is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built in, look at 
Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.  FXM650 would 
meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long as you’re OK with 
a 48V battery string.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:image002.png@01D26019.E81F73F0]
on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Josh Luthman]

Online/Google search.  Bunch of them from RefurbUPS/ebay.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ?
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>
> Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries
> Plus.  We get some good deals on them.
>
> New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell
> AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be
> deploying Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll
> have to go with Packetflux.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything
>> off DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be
>> in an outdoor temperature environment?
>>
>>
>>
>> And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too
>> expensive?
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank
>> to, that is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built
>> in, look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.
>> FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long
>> as you’re OK with a 48V battery string.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>>
>>
>>
>> Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system
>>
>> On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" >
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>>
>> President
>>
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> >What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>> >standard off the shelve UPS?
>> >The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>> >of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>> >buy batteries.
>> >However, what are you using for:
>> >
>> >1. Inverter / charger
>> >2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>> >
>> >The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>> >monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>> >models at 1k.
>> >
>> >Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>> >bank...
>> >
>> >If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>> >
>> >Josh
>> >
>> >Sent from my iPhone
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[Louis Arsenault]

I use a subscription razor service but I do not have a reoccurring plan.
I use https://www.harrys.com.
In the first pack I received some shaving from them with my initial order.
This is not the normal shaving cream I was used to. I used to use either
shaving gel or regular shaving cream that foams up. After using this lotion
type I am in love with it.  I now just go to Walmart and buy the cream.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cremo-Cream-Shave-Cream-6-oz/39126487
What really attracted me to the service type setup is no longer having to
hunt down an employee to unlock the razor blades, going over to hardware
and getting a razor blade and cutting the pack off.
When I notice that I am running low, I log into harrys and order a new pack
of blades. A couple days later they come in the mail.
I could really get used to this whole getting things delivered to my house
rather than going out!

-Louis

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
> If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?
>



-- 
-Louis

NTInet
O: 803-533-1660 X 207
C: 803-997-0004

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Ken Hohhof]

These are going to be old maybe 10+ years old, and electronics doesn’t live 
forever.  If nothing else, capacitors dry up.  I have some 1400 RM XL units 
still running and they haven’t blown up yet, but at some point we can’t rely on 
scavenged 20th century equipment to run our networks.

 

It should also be noted these do not have temperature compensated charging and 
vintage APC equipment is known for overcharging batteries anyway.  (Less of a 
problem with large external batteries)

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 9:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

Online/Google search.  Bunch of them from RefurbUPS/ebay.




  

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com> > wrote:

Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ? 

 

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > on behalf of 
Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com  " mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
To: "af@afmug.com  " mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries Plus.  
We get some good deals on them. 

 

New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell 
AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be deploying 
Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll have to go 
with Packetflux.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 


 

Gino Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything off 
DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC system?

 

Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be in an 
outdoor temperature environment?

 

And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too expensive?

 

If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank to, that 
is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built in, look at 
Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.  FXM650 would 
meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long as you’re OK with 
a 48V battery string.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> 


 

Gino Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com  > wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

The old desktop form factor 750xl is no longer made, we have to get
refurbished ones now too

On Dec 27, 2016 9:25 AM, "Josh Luthman"  wrote:

> Online/Google search.  Bunch of them from RefurbUPS/ebay.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ?
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>>
>> Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries
>> Plus.  We get some good deals on them.
>>
>> New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell
>> AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be
>> deploying Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll
>> have to go with Packetflux.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run
>>> everything off DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC
>>> system?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it
>>> be in an outdoor temperature environment?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too
>>> expensive?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank
>>> to, that is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built
>>> in, look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.
>>> FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long
>>> as you’re OK with a 48V battery string.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system
>>>
>>> On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" <
>>> af-boun...@afmug.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino Villarini*
>>>
>>> President
>>>
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>> on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>>> >standard off the shelve UPS?
>>> >The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>>> >of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>>> >buy batteries.
>>> >However, what are you using for:
>>> >
>>> >1. Inverter / charger
>>> >2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>>> >
>>> >The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>>> >monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>>> >models at 1k.
>>> >
>>> >Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>>> >bank...
>>> >
>>> >If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>>> >
>>> >Josh
>>> >
>>> >Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Josh Baird]

excessups.com

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ?
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>
> Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries
> Plus.  We get some good deals on them.
>
> New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell
> AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be
> deploying Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll
> have to go with Packetflux.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything
>> off DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be
>> in an outdoor temperature environment?
>>
>>
>>
>> And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too
>> expensive?
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank
>> to, that is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built
>> in, look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.
>> FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long
>> as you’re OK with a 48V battery string.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>>
>>
>>
>> Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system
>>
>> On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" >
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>>
>> President
>>
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> >What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>> >standard off the shelve UPS?
>> >The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>> >of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>> >buy batteries.
>> >However, what are you using for:
>> >
>> >1. Inverter / charger
>> >2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>> >
>> >The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>> >monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>> >models at 1k.
>> >
>> >Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>> >bank...
>> >
>> >If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>> >
>> >Josh
>> >
>> >Sent from my iPhone
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

We have been using Tripp Lite APS700HF on many of the sites coupled with 2x 
100AH AGM.  This gives AC out with very extended runtimes.  If we have to add 
juice we can do it with jumpercables from a truck or a generator.  Running a 
12v system keeps it simple.

Don’t forget the fuses.

Jim Bouse
Owner
Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

excessups.com

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini 
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ?

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh 
Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries Plus.  
We get some good deals on them.

New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell 
AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be deploying 
Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll have to go 
with Packetflux.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373




Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:image001.png@01D26026.779DF4F0]
On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything off 
DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC system?

Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be in an 
outdoor temperature environment?

And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too expensive?

If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank to, that 
is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built in, look at 
Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.  FXM650 would 
meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long as you’re OK with 
a 48V battery string.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:image003.png@01D26026.779DF4F0]
on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Gino Villarini]

Only downside to tripp lite gear is they have no way of remotely monitor them…

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of "Jim 
Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:59 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

We have been using Tripp Lite APS700HF on many of the sites coupled with 2x 
100AH AGM.  This gives AC out with very extended runtimes.  If we have to add 
juice we can do it with jumpercables from a truck or a generator.  Running a 
12v system keeps it simple.

Don’t forget the fuses.

Jim Bouse
Owner
Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

excessups.com




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini 
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ?

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh 
Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries Plus.  
We get some good deals on them.

New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell 
AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be deploying 
Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll have to go 
with Packetflux.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373




Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:image001.png@01D26026.779DF4F0]
On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I’m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything off 
DC?  You mention inverter so I’m thinking you want an AC system?

Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be in an 
outdoor temperature environment?

And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too expensive?

If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank to, that 
is spec’d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built in, look at 
Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.  FXM650 would 
meet your power requirements, but I’d look at FXM1100 as long as you’re OK with 
a 48V battery string.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


[cid:image003.png@01D26026.779DF4F0]
on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[chuck]

Valere-Eltek, compact, has telemetry if you buy the BC-2000 unit.  They will 
even do scheduled battery load tests.   

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 3:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson"  wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

[chuck]

My pretty face has not made me a dime yet...

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 3:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

Yikes ! Soap? You are not doing your face any favors…

I you don’t use shaving cream, the best next thing to shave is hair 
conditioner… 

From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Monday, December 26, 2016 at 4:56 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades





  Gino Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 




Wow, one a week.  I should treat myself.  
I can’t see well enough without glasses to easily change a blade in the shower.
I just apply a bar of Irish spring and start scraping my face.  

And I forget to ask my wife or to remember to change them at other times.  
Once it starts taking 15 minutes to shave, I get around to asking her.  


From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

$6/month for 4

Jeff Broadwick 
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

On Dec 26, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:


  What is the cost and how many do you get for the money?

  From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists
  Sent: Monday, December 26, 2016 1:31 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Razor blades

  I've done well with DSC.  only issue is that I'm accumulating them faster 
than I'm using them, so I'm going to have to shut off my account.

  Jeff Broadwick 
  ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

  On Dec 26, 2016, at 3:26 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:


I tried the most expensive DSC one a while back.  The first time it touched 
my face it pulled.  I struggled like hell to shave my face.   Second blade 
didn't help.  

I just buy a whole bunch of good ones from Meijer with Santa bucks every 
December, roughly $50 worth.  I think it's Gillette?  Orange and blue.  Coupons 
in the first package for the second, so on so forth.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Dec 26, 2016 2:47 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  Anyone use one of those subscription razor blade deals?
  If so how do  you like it, how many blades do  you get, do they last?

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Ken Hohhof]

http://www.tripplite.com/snmp-web-management-accessory-card-smartpro-smarton
line-ups-systems~SNMPWEBCARD/

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 10:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

Only downside to tripp lite gear is they have no way of remotely monitor
them. 

 

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > on behalf of
"Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com> >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com  " mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:59 AM
To: "af@afmug.com  " mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

We have been using Tripp Lite APS700HF on many of the sites coupled with 2x
100AH AGM.  This gives AC out with very extended runtimes.  If we have to
add juice we can do it with jumpercables from a truck or a generator.
Running a 12v system keeps it simple.

 

Don't forget the fuses.

 

Jim Bouse

Owner

Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi

979-985-5912

j...@brazoswifi.com  

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

excessups.com  

 


 

Gino Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com> > wrote: 

Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ? 

 

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > on behalf of
Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com  " mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Date: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
To: "af@afmug.com  " mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from Batteries
Plus.  We get some good deals on them. 

 

New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use Meanwell
AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll probably be
deploying Netonix switches.  If you need sync on the Ethernet ports you'll
have to go with Packetflux.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 


 

Gino Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I'm a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run everything
off DC?  You mention inverter so I'm thinking you want an AC system?

 

Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it be in
an outdoor temperature environment?

 

And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too expensive?

 

If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank to,
that is spec'd for outdoor temps, and that has all the features built in,
look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get you quotes.
FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I'd look at FXM1100 as long
as you're OK with a 48V battery string.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On
Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> 


 

Gino Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com  >
wrote:

>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Keefe John]

Alpha FXM or Tripplite APS.


On 12/27/2016 10:24 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


http://www.tripplite.com/snmp-web-management-accessory-card-smartpro-smartonline-ups-systems~SNMPWEBCARD/ 



*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 10:09 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Only downside to tripp lite gear is they have no way of remotely 
monitor them�


*From: *Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on 
behalf of "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" >
*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com " >

*Date: *Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:59 AM
*To: *"af@afmug.com " >

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

We have been using Tripp Lite APS700HF on many of the sites coupled 
with 2x 100AH AGM.  This gives AC out with very extended runtimes.  If 
we have to add juice we can do it with jumpercables from a truck or a 
generator.  Running a 12v system keeps it simple.


Don�t forget the fuses.

Jim Bouse

Owner

Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi

979-985-5912

j...@brazoswifi.com 

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 9:39 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

excessups.com 

/*Gino Villarini*/

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Gino Villarini > wrote:


Where are you sourcing your apc 750XLs from ?

*From: *Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on 
behalf of Josh Luthman >
*Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com " >

*Date: *Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM
*To: *"af@afmug.com " >

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Old sites we replace/use an APC 750 XL with big batteries from 
Batteries Plus.  We get some good deals on them.


New sites or anything we can replace and do DC (24vdc) we'll use 
Meanwell AD-155B (IIRC) and DR40.  From this point forward we'll 
probably be deploying Netonix switches. If you need sync on the 
Ethernet ports you'll have to go with Packetflux.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

/*Gino Villarini*/

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:21 AM, Ken Hohhof > wrote:


I�m a little unclear, are you looking for an AC UPS, or to run 
everything off DC?  You mention inverter so I�m thinking you want an 
AC system?


Also, is this going in a controlled environment like a NOC, or will it 
be in an outdoor temperature environment?


And what is your budget?  Sounds like you are finding $1,000 too 
expensive?


If you are looking for an AC UPS that you attach your own battery bank 
to, that is spec�d for outdoor temps, and that has all the features 
built in, look at Alpha FXM series.  Crossover Distribution can get 
you quotes. FXM650 would meet your power requirements, but I�d look at 
FXM1100 as long as you�re OK with a 48V battery string.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] 
*On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

Eltek or Emerson Rectifier system

On 12/27/16, 2:36 AM, "Af on behalf of Josh Corson" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>


/*Gino Villarini*/

President

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

on behalf of j...@bluebitnetworks.com 
> wrote:


>What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
>standard off the shelve UPS?
>The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
>of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
>buy batteries.
>However, what are you using for:
>
>1. Inverter / charger
>2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
>The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
>monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
>models at 1k.
>
>Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
>bank...
>
>If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
>Josh
>
>Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Eric Muehleisen]

I use Plex personally. I've found that you'll eventually need transcoding
if you want to view your content on different devices at different times
and places. A Pi won't be able to keep up.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> If you decide you want moar power...
>
> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
>> version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
>> shipping.
>>
>> Hard to beat that with a stick.
>>
>> Have several pis now.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
>> so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on
>> kits for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would
>> be more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
>> and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are alot
>> of bootleg devices, etc
>>
>> is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about
>> them but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time
>> to get with 2016
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>

[AFMUG] TowerSide Chat

[Ben Royer]

Slightly OT, but not really, as it’s WISP talk, but thought I’d start a 
‘TowerSide Chat’, (Fireside Chat), for the tower guys on the list.  Haven’t 
seen much on climbing gear or such lately.  I remember seeing, a few shows 
back, this connector, and I’m curious, can anyone on here come up with a 
creative use for it other than rock climbing?  One thought I had was attach it 
to your tools or drink, and use it as a quick connect to move things around 
your workspace in the air.  What other creative things could you use this for?


https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/c3-professional/f1-carabiners/p102-frog


Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

Re: [AFMUG] TowerSide Chat

[Jerry Head]

"It doesn't  look like anything to me"

On 12/27/2016 10:39 AM, Ben Royer wrote:
Slightly OT, but not really, as it’s WISP talk, but thought I’d start 
a ‘TowerSide Chat’, (Fireside Chat), for the tower guys on the list.  
Haven’t seen much on climbing gear or such lately.  I remember seeing, 
a few shows back, this connector, and I’m curious, can anyone on here 
come up with a creative use for it other than rock climbing?  One 
thought I had was attach it to your tools or drink, and use it as a 
quick connect to move things around your workspace in the air.  What 
other creative things could you use this for?

frog_06
https://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/c3-professional/f1-carabiners/p102-frog
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Josh Reynolds]

I haven't had to do that in the house with 802.11ac.

I'd imagine one of those octacore odroids would be fine if you needed
to transcode.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:
> I use Plex personally. I've found that you'll eventually need transcoding if
> you want to view your content on different devices at different times and
> places. A Pi won't be able to keep up.
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> If you decide you want moar power...
>>
>> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>>
>>> The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
>>> version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
>>> shipping.
>>>
>>> Hard to beat that with a stick.
>>>
>>> Have several pis now.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>>
>>> im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
>>> so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on
>>> kits for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would
>>> be more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
>>> and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are alot
>>> of bootleg devices, etc
>>>
>>> is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about
>>> them but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time
>>> to get with 2016
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Bill Prince]

The main attraction for me is the very low power required for the pi. 
The things I use them for do not require a lot of processing power, but 
I really like being able to power them with only a watt or two of power. 
Nice for something you want to be on 24x7.



bp


On 12/27/2016 6:40 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If you decide you want moar power...

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php

On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince" > wrote:


The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64
bit version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply,
case, and shipping.

Hard to beat that with a stick.

Have several pis now.

bp


On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem
low on kits for the accessories included (priced out alone i
would think it would be more for the accessories alone that for
the kits as a whole)
and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there
are alot of bootleg devices, etc

is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much
about them but i see everybody using them for things these days i
figure its time to get with 2016

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Josh Reynolds]

If it's in my house or at a tower site, 15W is not going to break the
(battery) bank :P

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> The main attraction for me is the very low power required for the pi. The
> things I use them for do not require a lot of processing power, but I really
> like being able to power them with only a watt or two of power. Nice for
> something you want to be on 24x7.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/27/2016 6:40 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> If you decide you want moar power...
>
> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>
>> The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
>> version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
>> shipping.
>>
>> Hard to beat that with a stick.
>>
>> Have several pis now.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
>> so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on kits
>> for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would be
>> more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
>> and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are alot
>> of bootleg devices, etc
>>
>> is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about them
>> but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time to
>> get with 2016
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Josh Reynolds]

Side note, the odroid c1+ 1.5GHz quadcore uses less than 10W and can
do full 1Gbps iperf3 testing.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> If it's in my house or at a tower site, 15W is not going to break the
> (battery) bank :P
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> The main attraction for me is the very low power required for the pi. The
>> things I use them for do not require a lot of processing power, but I really
>> like being able to power them with only a watt or two of power. Nice for
>> something you want to be on 24x7.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 12/27/2016 6:40 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> If you decide you want moar power...
>>
>> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>>
>>> The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
>>> version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
>>> shipping.
>>>
>>> Hard to beat that with a stick.
>>>
>>> Have several pis now.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>>
>>> im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
>>> so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on kits
>>> for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would be
>>> more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
>>> and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are alot
>>> of bootleg devices, etc
>>>
>>> is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about them
>>> but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time to
>>> get with 2016
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Bill Prince]

Not using them at a tower site. Using at home, and it's easy to use a 
small battery to make sure they stay on all the time. I can locate them 
almost anywhere. We're talking about < 2 watts; less than 1.5 watts 
actually.


bp


On 12/27/2016 9:03 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If it's in my house or at a tower site, 15W is not going to break the
(battery) bank :P

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

The main attraction for me is the very low power required for the pi. The
things I use them for do not require a lot of processing power, but I really
like being able to power them with only a watt or two of power. Nice for
something you want to be on 24x7.


bp


On 12/27/2016 6:40 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If you decide you want moar power...

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php

On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
shipping.

Hard to beat that with a stick.

Have several pis now.

bp


On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on kits
for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would be
more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are alot
of bootleg devices, etc

is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about them
but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time to
get with 2016

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Josh Reynolds]

What do you use them for?

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> Not using them at a tower site. Using at home, and it's easy to use a small
> battery to make sure they stay on all the time. I can locate them almost
> anywhere. We're talking about < 2 watts; less than 1.5 watts actually.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/27/2016 9:03 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> If it's in my house or at a tower site, 15W is not going to break the
>> (battery) bank :P
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>> The main attraction for me is the very low power required for the pi. The
>>> things I use them for do not require a lot of processing power, but I
>>> really
>>> like being able to power them with only a watt or two of power. Nice for
>>> something you want to be on 24x7.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 12/27/2016 6:40 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> If you decide you want moar power...
>>>
>>> http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php
>>>
>>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

 The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
 version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
 shipping.

 Hard to beat that with a stick.

 Have several pis now.

 bp
 

 On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

 im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
 so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on
 kits
 for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would be
 more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
 and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are
 alot
 of bootleg devices, etc

 is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about
 them
 but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time
 to
 get with 2016

 --
 If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
 as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.


>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

[Andreas Wiatowski]

Just got our 450m's

Can I use a 650 (Heavy duty model) PS to power up the 450m?

Cheers,
__
Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
Email  andr...@silowireless.com
19 Sage Court
Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free 
+1.866.727.4138

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sullivan
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

I found a "Brand X" POE adapter with an output of:
54V - 1.5A (80W)+ on (1,2) (4,5)  and - on (7,8) (3,6)

Is this a sufficient POE?  Found them for $29.00

On 12/14/2016 11:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> You can power the medusa in any of several different ways The 
> stock power supply, a PacketFlux PowerInjector+Sync, some of Chuck's 
> products, etc.

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Bill Prince]

Weather stations, local unifi controller, well monitor.


bp


On 12/27/2016 9:14 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

What do you use them for?

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Not using them at a tower site. Using at home, and it's easy to use a small
battery to make sure they stay on all the time. I can locate them almost
anywhere. We're talking about < 2 watts; less than 1.5 watts actually.

bp


On 12/27/2016 9:03 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If it's in my house or at a tower site, 15W is not going to break the
(battery) bank :P

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:53 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

The main attraction for me is the very low power required for the pi. The
things I use them for do not require a lot of processing power, but I
really
like being able to power them with only a watt or two of power. Nice for
something you want to be on 24x7.


bp


On 12/27/2016 6:40 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If you decide you want moar power...

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php

On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
shipping.

Hard to beat that with a stick.

Have several pis now.

bp


On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on
kits
for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would be
more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are
alot
of bootleg devices, etc

is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about
them
but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time
to
get with 2016

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] rasberry pi kit source

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
I use an Intel i7 NUC as a Plex server - I run it off the 24VDC
power plant (24V to 19V converter). The NUC added about 15-18W of
load, depending on it's load. Now I just need to move the QNAP to
the 24VDC plant, too...


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 12/27/16 9:49 AM, Josh Reynolds
  wrote:


  I haven't had to do that in the house with 802.11ac.

I'd imagine one of those octacore odroids would be fine if you needed
to transcode.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Eric Muehleisen  wrote:

  
I use Plex personally. I've found that you'll eventually need transcoding if
you want to view your content on different devices at different times and
places. A Pi won't be able to keep up.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:


  
If you decide you want moar power...

http://www.hardkernel.com/main/main.php

On Dec 27, 2016 1:15 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

  

The last pi I got was from Amazon. $60 included the pi (the new 64 bit
version), an 8GB flash with Raspbian pre-burned, power supply, case, and
shipping.

Hard to beat that with a stick.

Have several pis now.

bp


On 12/26/2016 9:33 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

im looking to build a kodi box and get a second for messing with
so i tool over to ebay, there are tons of options, prices seem low on
kits for the accessories included (priced out alone i would think it would
be more for the accessories alone that for the kits as a whole)
and i see a ton of "this is genuine" which indicates to me there are alot
of bootleg devices, etc

is there a trusted ebay seller for this stuff? I dont know much about
them but i see everybody using them for things these days i figure its time
to get with 2016

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.



  



  


  

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Josh Corson]

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:52 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

The tool you're looking for in relation to the monitoring is a packetflux
sitemonitor base unit.

Others can point you toward the chargers.

On Dec 26, 2016 11:36 PM, "Josh Corson"  wrote:

> What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
> standard off the shelve UPS?
> The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
> of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
> buy batteries.
> However, what are you using for:
>
> 1. Inverter / charger
> 2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
> The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
> monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
> models at 1k.
>
> Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
> bank...
>
> If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
> Josh
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Josh Corson]

How about a APC750 or APC1250 tripplite inverter/charger?
Also I wanted to have a way to monitor how long of runtime the batteries
have remaining...like the APC smart UPS units.

On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:52 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

The tool you're looking for in relation to the monitoring is a packetflux
sitemonitor base unit.

Others can point you toward the chargers.

On Dec 26, 2016 11:36 PM, "Josh Corson"  wrote:

> What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
> standard off the shelve UPS?
> The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
> of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
> buy batteries.
> However, what are you using for:
>
> 1. Inverter / charger
> 2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
> The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
> monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
> models at 1k.
>
> Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
> bank...
>
> If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
> Josh
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Ken Hohhof]

I’ve never used the Tripp Lite APC series, but I believe their main purpose is 
emergency vehicles, RVs, boats, etc. where they switch automatically between 
battery and shore power.  Using similar units in the past, I have found one 
thing to look for is how low the shore (commercial) power has to be for the 
transfer switch to switch to batteries.  They may just use a relay, assuming 
commercial power is either there or it isn’t.  But we get a lot of partial 
voltage situations like 60 or 80 volts, and a lot of our electronics won’t run 
on that.  It’s very frustrating to drive out to a site that is down, and find a 
fully charged battery string that isn’t being used because the ATS thinks 80 
volts is plenty.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Corson
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 11:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

 

How about a APC750 or APC1250 tripplite inverter/charger? 

Also I wanted to have a way to monitor how long of runtime the batteries have 
remaining...like the APC smart UPS units. 


On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:52 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

The tool you're looking for in relation to the monitoring is a packetflux 
sitemonitor base unit.  

 

Others can point you toward the chargers.

 

On Dec 26, 2016 11:36 PM, "Josh Corson" mailto:j...@bluebitnetworks.com> > wrote:

What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
standard off the shelve UPS?
The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
buy batteries.
However, what are you using for:

1. Inverter / charger
2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.

The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
models at 1k.

Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery bank...

If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!

Josh

Sent from my iPhone

Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites

[Josh Reynolds]

Magnum inverters have an AC input cutoff where if it dips below, they
invert and cancel charge.

Very, very good rugged units. American made with good warranties.

On Dec 27, 2016 11:55 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> I’ve never used the Tripp Lite APC series, but I believe their main
> purpose is emergency vehicles, RVs, boats, etc. where they switch
> automatically between battery and shore power.  Using similar units in the
> past, I have found one thing to look for is how low the shore (commercial)
> power has to be for the transfer switch to switch to batteries.  They may
> just use a relay, assuming commercial power is either there or it isn’t.
> But we get a lot of partial voltage situations like 60 or 80 volts, and a
> lot of our electronics won’t run on that.  It’s very frustrating to drive
> out to a site that is down, and find a fully charged battery string that
> isn’t being used because the ATS thinks 80 volts is plenty.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Corson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 11:48 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Battery backup at large sites
>
>
>
> How about a APC750 or APC1250 tripplite inverter/charger?
>
> Also I wanted to have a way to monitor how long of runtime the batteries
> have remaining...like the APC smart UPS units.
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:52 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> The tool you're looking for in relation to the monitoring is a packetflux
> sitemonitor base unit.
>
>
>
> Others can point you toward the chargers.
>
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2016 11:36 PM, "Josh Corson"  wrote:
>
> What is everyone using as a battery backup at sites that cannot use a
> standard off the shelve UPS?
> The site in mention is probably using 500 watts max. The battery side
> of things is a no brainer - calculate run time, determine your bank,
> buy batteries.
> However, what are you using for:
>
> 1. Inverter / charger
> 2. Network monitoring capability when AC goes out with SNMP.
>
> The hardest challenge I've found is sourcing something for network
> monitoring that isn't an all in one charger/inverter like the ICT
> models at 1k.
>
> Always wondered if you could rig a APC network card to work in a battery
> bank...
>
> If anyone could share the layout of their system I'd appreciate it!
>
> Josh
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

[Tushar Patel]

That is what we are using for now.

Tushar


> On Dec 27, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Wiatowski  
> wrote:
> 
> Just got our 450m's
> 
> Can I use a 650 (Heavy duty model) PS to power up the 450m?
> 
> Cheers,
> __
> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
> Silo Wireless Inc.
> Email  andr...@silowireless.com
> 19 Sage Court
> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
> Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free 
> +1.866.727.4138
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sullivan
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:58 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux
> 
> I found a "Brand X" POE adapter with an output of:
> 54V - 1.5A (80W)+ on (1,2) (4,5)  and - on (7,8) (3,6)
> 
> Is this a sufficient POE?  Found them for $29.00
> 
>> On 12/14/2016 11:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>> You can power the medusa in any of several different ways The 
>> stock power supply, a PacketFlux PowerInjector+Sync, some of Chuck's 
>> products, etc.
> 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

[Andreas Wiatowski]

Thanks Tushar.

Cheers,
__
Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
Email  andr...@silowireless.com
19 Sage Court
Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free 
+1.866.727.4138

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

That is what we are using for now.

Tushar


> On Dec 27, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Wiatowski  
> wrote:
> 
> Just got our 450m's
> 
> Can I use a 650 (Heavy duty model) PS to power up the 450m?
> 
> Cheers,
> __
> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
> Silo Wireless Inc.
> Email  andr...@silowireless.com
> 19 Sage Court
> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
> Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free 
> +1.866.727.4138
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sullivan
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:58 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux
> 
> I found a "Brand X" POE adapter with an output of:
> 54V - 1.5A (80W)+ on (1,2) (4,5)  and - on (7,8) (3,6)
> 
> Is this a sufficient POE?  Found them for $29.00
> 
>> On 12/14/2016 11:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>> You can power the medusa in any of several different ways The 
>> stock power supply, a PacketFlux PowerInjector+Sync, some of Chuck's 
>> products, etc.
> 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

[Gino Villarini]

Is this the same as the ptp600 ? I guess noŠ

On 12/27/16, 2:04 PM, "Af on behalf of Tushar Patel"  wrote:

>That is what we are using for now.
>
>Tushar
>
>
>> On Dec 27, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Wiatowski
>> wrote:
>>
>> Just got our 450m's
>>
>> Can I use a 650 (Heavy duty model) PS to power up the 450m?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> __
>> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
>> Silo Wireless Inc.
>> Email  andr...@silowireless.com
>> 19 Sage Court
>> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
>> Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free
>>+1.866.727.4138
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sullivan
>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:58 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux
>>
>> I found a "Brand X" POE adapter with an output of:
>> 54V - 1.5A (80W)+ on (1,2) (4,5)  and - on (7,8) (3,6)
>>
>> Is this a sufficient POE?  Found them for $29.00
>>
>>> On 12/14/2016 11:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>> You can power the medusa in any of several different ways The
>>> stock power supply, a PacketFlux PowerInjector+Sync, some of Chuck's
>>> products, etc.
>>
>

[AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

[Ken Hohhof]

Is anyone still running into customers with Windows 10 computers that boot
up with an autoconfiguration address but will get a valid address if you
Restart them?  I got yet another call today about this.  Of course,
customers think it's our problem because the symptom is "no Internet" on the
affected computer.

 

I would have thought all computers would have the patch by now.  But I guess
if the symptom is "no Internet", the computer might not get the update.

 

Annoying that this has not been better publicized.  Somewhere customers
actually read, not this:

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/12/microsoft-windows-10-dhcp-broken-upd
ate/

 

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

we have a contract customer that cant communicate with the domain over the
office wireless, over the ethernet theyre fine,  one win 10, one win 7. we
are suspecting that the microsft monkery caused it, we pushed all the wsus
updates from last tuesday out on thursday and are hoping it resolves it.
may be unrelated, but given theyre jacking around in that stack and it
started at the same time im not generating alot of billable time for a
customer for microsofts f up

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Is anyone still running into customers with Windows 10 computers that boot
> up with an autoconfiguration address but will get a valid address if you
> Restart them?  I got yet another call today about this.  Of course,
> customers think it’s our problem because the symptom is “no Internet” on
> the affected computer.
>
>
>
> I would have thought all computers would have the patch by now.  But I
> guess if the symptom is “no Internet”, the computer might not get the
> update.
>
>
>
> Annoying that this has not been better publicized.  Somewhere customers
> actually read, not this:
>
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/12/microsoft-
> windows-10-dhcp-broken-update/
>
>
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

[Adam Moffett]

This stuff makes me want to be a jerk and eliminate tech support.  I'd 
install an SS as a demarc and if they think internet doesn't work, swing 
by and plug laptop into the demarc.  If it works for me then I don't 
really care what windows/iOS/Linksys problem they're having.


On other days I feel more altruistic.

Sorry, Ken no I have no constructive input on the problem. :)



-- Original Message --
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/27/2016 2:46:49 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

Is anyone still running into customers with Windows 10 computers that 
boot up with an autoconfiguration address but will get a valid address 
if you Restart them?  I got yet another call today about this.  Of 
course, customers think it’s our problem because the symptom is “no 
Internet” on the affected computer.




I would have thought all computers would have the patch by now.  But I 
guess if the symptom is “no Internet”, the computer might not get the 
update.




Annoying that this has not been better publicized.  Somewhere customers 
actually read, not this:




http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/12/microsoft-windows-10-dhcp-broken-update/

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

[Nate Burke]

The first time i ran into this, it just happened I had a 951 at the 
cutomers house, so I could see the device connect via Wifi, but never 
obtain an IP Address.  Weird thing was the customer said that it was 
worked fine on his office wifi, so it must be something with the way the 
mikrotik router is handing out DHCP?  Maybe only a handful of routers/PC 
combinations have the issue?


On 12/27/2016 1:59 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
This stuff makes me want to be a jerk and eliminate tech support.  I'd 
install an SS as a demarc and if they think internet doesn't work, 
swing by and plug laptop into the demarc.  If it works for me then I 
don't really care what windows/iOS/Linksys problem they're having.

On other days I feel more altruistic.
Sorry, Ken no I have no constructive input on the problem. :)
-- Original Message --
From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 12/27/2016 2:46:49 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?


Is anyone still running into customers with Windows 10 computers that 
boot up with an autoconfiguration address but will get a valid 
address if you Restart them?  I got yet another call today about 
this.  Of course, customers think it’s our problem because the 
symptom is “no Internet” on the affected computer.


I would have thought all computers would have the patch by now.  But 
I guess if the symptom is “no Internet”, the computer might not get 
the update.


Annoying that this has not been better publicized.  Somewhere 
customers actually read, not this:


http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/12/microsoft-windows-10-dhcp-broken-update/

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

im wondering if it didnt boil down to them pulling an apple and forcing old
encryptions to go away. i get a kick out of it, it freaks out like jesus
has cancer if you have wpa or wep but its cool with connecting to random
open wifi
microsoft should stop trying to be like apple, not being like apple is the
last thing microsoft has going for them to not suck as bad as apple

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:

> The first time i ran into this, it just happened I had a 951 at the
> cutomers house, so I could see the device connect via Wifi, but never
> obtain an IP Address.  Weird thing was the customer said that it was worked
> fine on his office wifi, so it must be something with the way the mikrotik
> router is handing out DHCP?  Maybe only a handful of routers/PC
> combinations have the issue?
>
>
> On 12/27/2016 1:59 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> This stuff makes me want to be a jerk and eliminate tech support.  I'd
> install an SS as a demarc and if they think internet doesn't work, swing by
> and plug laptop into the demarc.  If it works for me then I don't really
> care what windows/iOS/Linksys problem they're having.
>
> On other days I feel more altruistic.
>
> Sorry, Ken no I have no constructive input on the problem. :)
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 12/27/2016 2:46:49 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?
>
>
> Is anyone still running into customers with Windows 10 computers that boot
> up with an autoconfiguration address but will get a valid address if you
> Restart them?  I got yet another call today about this.  Of course,
> customers think it’s our problem because the symptom is “no Internet” on
> the affected computer.
>
>
>
> I would have thought all computers would have the patch by now.  But I
> guess if the symptom is “no Internet”, the computer might not get the
> update.
>
>
>
> Annoying that this has not been better publicized.  Somewhere customers
> actually read, not this:
>
>
>
> http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/12/microsoft-
> windows-10-dhcp-broken-update/
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

[Nate Burke]

Note sure, my customer was fixed just by doing an ipconfig /renew, A 
restart didn't fix it.


On 12/27/2016 2:07 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
im wondering if it didnt boil down to them pulling an apple and 
forcing old encryptions to go away. i get a kick out of it, it freaks 
out like jesus has cancer if you have wpa or wep but its cool with 
connecting to random open wifi
microsoft should stop trying to be like apple, not being like apple is 
the last thing microsoft has going for them to not suck as bad as apple


On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Nate Burke > wrote:


The first time i ran into this, it just happened I had a 951 at
the cutomers house, so I could see the device connect via Wifi,
but never obtain an IP Address.  Weird thing was the customer said
that it was worked fine on his office wifi, so it must be
something with the way the mikrotik router is handing out DHCP? 
Maybe only a handful of routers/PC combinations have the issue?



On 12/27/2016 1:59 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

This stuff makes me want to be a jerk and eliminate tech
support.  I'd install an SS as a demarc and if they think
internet doesn't work, swing by and plug laptop into the demarc. 
If it works for me then I don't really care what

windows/iOS/Linksys problem they're having.
On other days I feel more altruistic.
Sorry, Ken no I have no constructive input on the problem. :)
-- Original Message --
From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: 12/27/2016 2:46:49 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?


Is anyone still running into customers with Windows 10 computers
that boot up with an autoconfiguration address but will get a
valid address if you Restart them?  I got yet another call today
about this.  Of course, customers think it’s our problem because
the symptom is “no Internet” on the affected computer.

I would have thought all computers would have the patch by now. 
But I guess if the symptom is “no Internet”, the computer might

not get the update.

Annoying that this has not been better publicized.  Somewhere
customers actually read, not this:


http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/12/microsoft-windows-10-dhcp-broken-update/








--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[David Sovereen]

What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT IP 
serving hundreds of customers?

We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
specific customer.

They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no 
matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
Normally, they just say okay and go away.

Is the request too broad?

Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

Dave

==
 MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
 David Sovereen
 989-837-3790 x 151
 2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[chuck]

Just give them the list.  You don’t want an obstruction of justice charge.  
Not sure, but you might supposed to be logging your NAT activity so you can pin 
the customer down if they have a time and date.  

From: David Sovereen 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT IP 
serving hundreds of customers?

We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
specific customer.

They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no 
matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
Normally, they just say okay and go away.

Is the request too broad?

Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

Dave

==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
989-837-3790 x 151
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net
 

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I'd be concerned about privacy violations.

My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push
back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going
to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of
several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't
worth a hill of beans.

On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" 
wrote:

> What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT
> IP serving hundreds of customers?
>
> We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a
> specific customer.
>
> They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no
> matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.
> Normally, they just say okay and go away.
>
> Is the request too broad?
>
> Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?
>
> Dave
>
> ==
>  MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
>  David Sovereen
>  989-837-3790 x 151 <(989)%20837-3790>
>  2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
>  http://www.mercury.net
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely going
to end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in the
rear and become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is that
whoever actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them
(customer identity vs identities)

On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I'd be concerned about privacy violations.
>
> My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push
> back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going
> to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of
> several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't
> worth a hill of beans.
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" 
> wrote:
>
>> What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared,
>> NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?
>>
>> We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a
>> specific customer.
>>
>> They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be,
>> no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.
>> Normally, they just say okay and go away.
>>
>> Is the request too broad?
>>
>> Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> ==
>>  MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
>>  David Sovereen
>>  989-837-3790 x 151 <(989)%20837-3790>
>>  2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
>>  http://www.mercury.net
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Yep, best bet is to contact an attorney versed in this, make them your
point of contact attorney of record, and do whatever the attorney says
without question. There is caselaw on this and an attorney is a much better
person to have interpret it than the borg, mainly because we dont have to
serve your prison sentence. My advice in that regard, is that you package
up a bucket of sand and ship it to them with very clear instructions on how
best to punch it. also, for good measure put some white power in the
envelope. To ensure they leave you alone in the future let them know you
arent afraid to come to their office with an automatic weapon.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I'd be concerned about privacy violations.
>
> My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push
> back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going
> to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of
> several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't
> worth a hill of beans.
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" 
> wrote:
>
>> What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared,
>> NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?
>>
>> We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a
>> specific customer.
>>
>> They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be,
>> no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.
>> Normally, they just say okay and go away.
>>
>> Is the request too broad?
>>
>> Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> ==
>>  MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
>>  David Sovereen
>>  989-837-3790 x 151 <(989)%20837-3790>
>>  2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
>>  http://www.mercury.net
>>
>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[chuck]

Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them your 
concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are looking for is 
on your list.  
And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos it is a 
domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person called the 
boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer and try to be helpful.

If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  I have 
gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that thought he 
was chatting with a 13 year old.  

I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new customers 
that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely going to 
end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in the rear and 
become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is that whoever 
actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them (customer 
identity vs identities)

On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

  I'd be concerned about privacy violations.  

  My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push 
back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going to 
violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of several 
strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't worth a hill of 
beans.

  On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen"  wrote:

What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT 
IP serving hundreds of customers?

We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
specific customer.

They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no 
matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
Normally, they just say okay and go away.

Is the request too broad?

Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

Dave

==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
 989-837-3790 x 151
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[chuck]

I have probably complied with 100 or more subpoenas.  Never a problem.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

Yep, best bet is to contact an attorney versed in this, make them your point of 
contact attorney of record, and do whatever the attorney says without question. 
There is caselaw on this and an attorney is a much better person to have 
interpret it than the borg, mainly because we dont have to serve your prison 
sentence. My advice in that regard, is that you package up a bucket of sand and 
ship it to them with very clear instructions on how best to punch it. also, for 
good measure put some white power in the envelope. To ensure they leave you 
alone in the future let them know you arent afraid to come to their office with 
an automatic weapon.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  I'd be concerned about privacy violations.  

  My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push 
back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going to 
violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of several 
strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't worth a hill of 
beans.

  On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen"  wrote:

What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT 
IP serving hundreds of customers?

We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
specific customer.

They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no 
matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
Normally, they just say okay and go away.

Is the request too broad?

Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

Dave

==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
 989-837-3790 x 151
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net






-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[David Sovereen]

We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have been from 
local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is the only one that I 
can think of that is from the Department of Justice and it has TONS of IP 
Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content providers.  I really expected them to 
just say, “nevermind” when I told them it was a shared/NAT IP, but they didn’t.

I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them the list.

FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT connections are 
whose.

Dave

==
 MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
 David Sovereen
 989-837-3790 x 151
 2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net 
 

> On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM,   wrote:
> 
> Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them 
> your concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are looking 
> for is on your list. 
> And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos it is a 
> domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person called 
> the boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer and try to be 
> helpful.
>  
> If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  I have 
> gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that thought 
> he was chatting with a 13 year old. 
>  
> I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new customers 
> that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”. 
>  
> From: Forrest Christian (List Account) <>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
> To: af <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?
>  
> Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely going to 
> end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in the rear and 
> become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is that whoever 
> actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them (customer 
> identity vs identities)
>  
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> > wrote:
>> I'd be concerned about privacy violations. 
>>  
>> My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push 
>> back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going to 
>> violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of 
>> several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't 
>> worth a hill of beans.
>>  
>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" > 
>> wrote:
>>> What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT 
>>> IP serving hundreds of customers?
>>>  
>>> We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
>>> specific customer.
>>>  
>>> They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no 
>>> matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
>>> Normally, they just say okay and go away.
>>>  
>>> Is the request too broad?
>>>  
>>> Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?
>>>  
>>> Dave
>>>  
>>> ==
>>> MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
>>> David Sovereen
>>>  989-837-3790 x 151 
>>> 2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
>>>  http://www.mercury.net 
>>>  
>>>  

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[Adam Moffett]

...might be a good idea even if it's not a requirement.


-- Original Message --
From: "David Sovereen" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/27/2016 4:05:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have 
been from local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is 
the only one that I can think of that is from the Department of Justice 
and it has TONS of IP Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content 
providers.  I really expected them to just say, “nevermind” when I told 
them it was a shared/NAT IP, but they didn’t.


I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them 
the list.


FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT 
connections are whose.


Dave

==
 MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
 David Sovereen
 989-837-3790 x 151
 2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net/


On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM,   
wrote:


Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell 
them your concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they 
are looking for is on your list.
And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos 
it is a domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other 
person called the boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer 
and try to be helpful.


If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  
I have gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy 
that thought he was chatting with a 13 year old.


I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new 
customers that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement 
activities”.


From:Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
To:af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely 
going to end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain 
in the rear and become a target for their retaliation.  My main 
concern is that whoever actually approved the warrant approved what 
you can give them (customer identity vs identities)


On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

I'd be concerned about privacy violations.

My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to 
push back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response 
is going to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I 
can think of several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them 
probably aren't worth a hill of beans.


On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" 
 wrote:
What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a 
shared, NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?


We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to 
pinpoint a specific customer.


They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could 
be, no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of 
response.  Normally, they just say okay and go away.


Is the request too broad?

Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

Dave

==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
 989-837-3790 x 151
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net/

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

just remember when saving that money on the lawyer that big greg down on
cellblock D does not like too much starch on his drawers and jimmy spoons
likes your hair grown out cause it makes you pretty

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:05 PM, David Sovereen 
wrote:

> We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have been
> from local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is the only
> one that I can think of that is from the Department of Justice and it has
> TONS of IP Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content providers.  I really
> expected them to just say, “nevermind” when I told them it was a shared/NAT
> IP, but they didn’t.
>
> I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them the
> list.
>
> FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT connections
> are whose.
>
> Dave
>
> ==
>  MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
>  David Sovereen
>  989-837-3790 x 151 <(989)%20837-3790>
>  2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
>  http://www.mercury.net
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM,   wrote:
>
> Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them
> your concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are
> looking for is on your list.
> And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos it is
> a domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person
> called the boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer and try to
> be helpful.
>
> If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  I
> have gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that
> thought he was chatting with a 13 year old.
>
> I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new
> customers that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?
>
> Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely going
> to end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in the
> rear and become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is that
> whoever actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them
> (customer identity vs identities)
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd be concerned about privacy violations.
>>
>> My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push
>> back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going
>> to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of
>> several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't
>> worth a hill of beans.
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared,
>>> NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?
>>>
>>> We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a
>>> specific customer.
>>>
>>> They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be,
>>> no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.
>>> Normally, they just say okay and go away.
>>>
>>> Is the request too broad?
>>>
>>> Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> ==
>>> MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
>>> David Sovereen
>>>  989-837-3790 x 151 <(989)%20837-3790>
>>> 2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
>>>  http://www.mercury.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[Colin Stanners]

Wow, Steve, do you have a day with words sometimes.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:08 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> just remember when saving that money on the lawyer that big greg down on
> cellblock D does not like too much starch on his drawers and jimmy spoons
> likes your hair grown out cause it makes you pretty
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:05 PM, David Sovereen <
> david.sover...@mercury.net> wrote:
>
>> We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have
>> been from local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is the
>> only one that I can think of that is from the Department of Justice and it
>> has TONS of IP Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content providers.  I really
>> expected them to just say, “nevermind” when I told them it was a shared/NAT
>> IP, but they didn’t.
>>
>> I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them
>> the list.
>>
>> FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT connections
>> are whose.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> ==
>>  MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
>>  David Sovereen
>>  989-837-3790 x 151 <(989)%20837-3790>
>>  2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
>>  http://www.mercury.net
>>
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them
>> your concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are
>> looking for is on your list.
>> And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos it
>> is a domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person
>> called the boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer and try to
>> be helpful.
>>
>> If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  I
>> have gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that
>> thought he was chatting with a 13 year old.
>>
>> I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new
>> customers that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?
>>
>> Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely
>> going to end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in
>> the rear and become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is
>> that whoever actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them
>> (customer identity vs identities)
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd be concerned about privacy violations.
>>>
>>> My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to
>>> push back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is
>>> going to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can
>>> think of several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably
>>> aren't worth a hill of beans.
>>>
>>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared,
 NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?

 We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a
 specific customer.

 They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be,
 no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.
 Normally, they just say okay and go away.

 Is the request too broad?

 Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

 Dave

 ==
 MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
 David Sovereen
  989-837-3790 x 151 <(989)%20837-3790>
 2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
  http://www.mercury.net



>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[chuck]

Yeah, I think he ought to be writing dialog for HBO.  

From: Colin Stanners 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 2:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

Wow, Steve, do you have a day with words sometimes.


On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:08 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  just remember when saving that money on the lawyer that big greg down on 
cellblock D does not like too much starch on his drawers and jimmy spoons likes 
your hair grown out cause it makes you pretty

  On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:05 PM, David Sovereen  
wrote:

We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have been 
from local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is the only one 
that I can think of that is from the Department of Justice and it has TONS of 
IP Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content providers.  I really expected them 
to just say, “nevermind” when I told them it was a shared/NAT IP, but they 
didn’t. 

I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them the 
list.

FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT connections 
are whose.

Dave


==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
 989-837-3790 x 151
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net



  On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM,   wrote:


  Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them 
your concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are looking 
for is on your list.  
  And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos it 
is a domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person called 
the boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer and try to be helpful.

  If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  I 
have gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that 
thought he was chatting with a 13 year old.  

  I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new 
customers that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

  Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely 
going to end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in the 
rear and become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is that 
whoever actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them (customer 
identity vs identities)

  On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

I'd be concerned about privacy violations.  

My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to 
push back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going 
to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of 
several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't worth a 
hill of beans.

On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen"  
wrote:

  What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a 
shared, NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?

  We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint 
a specific customer.

  They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could 
be, no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
Normally, they just say okay and go away.

  Is the request too broad?

  Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

  Dave

  ==
  MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
  David Sovereen
   989-837-3790 x 151
  2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
   http://www.mercury.net







  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[chuck]

I think CALEA requires a best effort to log NAT assignments.  Something 
requires it.  
We just do it so we can help the cops catch the bad guys.  

From: David Sovereen 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 2:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have been from 
local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is the only one that I 
can think of that is from the Department of Justice and it has TONS of IP 
Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content providers.  I really expected them to 
just say, “nevermind” when I told them it was a shared/NAT IP, but they didn’t. 

I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them the list.

FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT connections are 
whose.

Dave

==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
989-837-3790 x 151
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
 http://www.mercury.net
 

  On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM,   wrote:

  Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them 
your concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are looking 
for is on your list.  
  And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos it is a 
domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person called the 
boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer and try to be helpful.

  If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  I have 
gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that thought he 
was chatting with a 13 year old.  

  I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new customers 
that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”.  

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

  Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely going to 
end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in the rear and 
become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is that whoever 
actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them (customer 
identity vs identities)

  On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
 wrote:

I'd be concerned about privacy violations.  

My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push 
back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going to 
violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of several 
strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't worth a hill of 
beans.

On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen"  
wrote:

  What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, 
NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?

  We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
specific customer.

  They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, 
no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
Normally, they just say okay and go away.

  Is the request too broad?

  Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

  Dave

  ==
  MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
  David Sovereen
   989-837-3790 x 151
  2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
   http://www.mercury.net

[AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Adam Moffett]

A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this 
hasn't been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public 
IP's...but it might become an issue soon.


Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, 
src-port, and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does 
simply checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough 
data or is there more to it?


Has anybody tried the method on the wiki 
(http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444) 
where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea 
is you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that 
a connection from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just 
need to keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like this 
would have a side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous 
connections a single customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.


Thanks,
Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[chuck]

We bought 2048 IPs to kick the can down the road for a year or so, but this is 
going to become a high priority.
Dennis or someone is going make a fortune with “IPV6 in a box” solutions once 
there is a method that is reliable and easy to adopt.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 2:45 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this hasn't been 
an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but it might 
become an issue soon.

Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port, and 
dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does simply checking the 
"log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is there more to it?

Has anybody tried the method on the wiki 
(http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444)
 where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea is you 
don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a connection 
from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just need to keep track of 
who has which private IP.  It seems like this would have a side effect of 
limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single customer could 
openmaybe not a bad thing.

Thanks,
Adam

[AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Rory Conaway]

I've got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.  The 
installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets you 
already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.

Rory

Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

[Ken Hohhof]

Yeah, that was the other fix I saw suggested.  There was speculation it had to 
do with the sequence or speed that Windows was doing DHCP at bootup.  My 
customer call today had a Netgear router so it’s not specific to Mikrotik.  In 
fact, my laptop did this a couple weeks ago at the office and that was on the 
UVerse gateway WiFi.


 

When mine did it, I think I reflexively tried ipconfig/release first and it 
refused since you can’t release an autoconfig address.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 2:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

 

Note sure, my customer was fixed just by doing an ipconfig /renew,  A restart 
didn't fix it.  

On 12/27/2016 2:07 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

im wondering if it didnt boil down to them pulling an apple and forcing old 
encryptions to go away. i get a kick out of it, it freaks out like jesus has 
cancer if you have wpa or wep but its cool with connecting to random open wifi 

microsoft should stop trying to be like apple, not being like apple is the last 
thing microsoft has going for them to not suck as bad as apple

 

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

The first time i ran into this, it just happened I had a 951 at the cutomers 
house, so I could see the device connect via Wifi, but never obtain an IP 
Address.  Weird thing was the customer said that it was worked fine on his 
office wifi, so it must be something with the way the mikrotik router is 
handing out DHCP?  Maybe only a handful of routers/PC combinations have the 
issue? 

 

On 12/27/2016 1:59 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

This stuff makes me want to be a jerk and eliminate tech support.  I'd install 
an SS as a demarc and if they think internet doesn't work, swing by and plug 
laptop into the demarc.  If it works for me then I don't really care what 
windows/iOS/Linksys problem they're having.

 

On other days I feel more altruistic.

 

Sorry, Ken no I have no constructive input on the problem. :)

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >

To: af@afmug.com  

Sent: 12/27/2016 2:46:49 PM

Subject: [AFMUG] Windows 10 DHCP bug still?

 

Is anyone still running into customers with Windows 10 computers that boot up 
with an autoconfiguration address but will get a valid address if you Restart 
them?  I got yet another call today about this.  Of course, customers think 
it’s our problem because the symptom is “no Internet” on the affected computer.

 

I would have thought all computers would have the patch by now.  But I guess if 
the symptom is “no Internet”, the computer might not get the update.

 

Annoying that this has not been better publicized.  Somewhere customers 
actually read, not this:

 

http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/12/microsoft-windows-10-dhcp-broken-update/

 

 





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

 

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[Ken Hohhof]

I believe CALEA makes a big deal about NOT including traffic from anyone except 
the subject of the subpoena.  This is not a CALEA request though.

 

Also the term “search warrant” seems strange, normally I hear “subpoena” or 
“court order”.

 

They are putting you in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation.

 

Is this about Hillary’s emails?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

 

I think CALEA requires a best effort to log NAT assignments.  Something 
requires it.  

We just do it so we can help the cops catch the bad guys.  

 

From: David Sovereen 

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 2:05 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

 

We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have been from 
local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is the only one that I 
can think of that is from the Department of Justice and it has TONS of IP 
Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content providers.  I really expected them to 
just say, “nevermind” when I told them it was a shared/NAT IP, but they didn’t. 

 

I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them the list.

 

FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT connections are 
whose.

 

Dave

 

==

MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION

David Sovereen

989-837-3790 x 151

2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434

 http://www.mercury.net  

 

 

On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

 

Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them your 
concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are looking for is 
on your list.  

And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos it is a 
domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person called the 
boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer and try to be helpful.

 

If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.  I have 
gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that thought he 
was chatting with a 13 year old.  

 

I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new customers 
that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”.  

 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

 

Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely going to 
end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain in the rear and 
become a target for their retaliation.  My main concern is that whoever 
actually approved the warrant approved what you can give them (customer 
identity vs identities)

 

On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:



I'd be concerned about privacy violations.  

 

My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push back 
just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going to violate 
the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I can think of several 
strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't worth a hill of 
beans.

 

On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" mailto:david.sover...@mercury.net> > wrote:



What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT IP 
serving hundreds of customers?

 

We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
specific customer.

 

They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no 
matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of response.  
Normally, they just say okay and go away.

 

Is the request too broad?

 

Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?

 

Dave

 

==

MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION

David Sovereen

 989-837-3790 x 151  

2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434

 http://www.mercury.net  

 

 

 

[AFMUG] blast from the past ... Komputer Tutor

[Ken Hohhof]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3inBIb_H50

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Jaime Solorza]

Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to 3
for others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.
I am booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.
> The installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets
> you already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.
>
>
>
> Rory
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

I got it too.  I’m 3 hrs from Dallas but it looks like Rory is looking for an 
operator with existing sites in the North Dallas area.

Jim Bouse
Owner
Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to 3 for 
others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.   I am 
booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.  The 
installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets you 
already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.

Rory

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Jaime Solorza]

There are about three of you fine feathered gents closer Plus I am
booked solid

On Dec 27, 2016 4:52 PM, "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" 
wrote:

> I got it too.  I’m 3 hrs from Dallas but it looks like Rory is looking for
> an operator with existing sites in the North Dallas area.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
>
> Owner
>
> Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
>
> 979-985-5912 <(979)%20985-5912>
>
> j...@brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project
>
>
>
> Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to
> 3 for others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.
>   I am booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Wireless Systems Architect
>
> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.
> The installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets
> you already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Rory Conaway]

To be more specific, we just need links up to about 1.5 miles to be installed.  
You can use them to replace existing links.  They are 300+Mbps full-duplex.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

I got it too.  I’m 3 hrs from Dallas but it looks like Rory is looking for an 
operator with existing sites in the North Dallas area.

Jim Bouse
Owner
Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to 3 for 
others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.   I am 
booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.  The 
installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets you 
already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.

Rory

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Jaime Solorza]

Brad Belton use to handle that area... Not sure what he is up to
nowadays...

On Dec 27, 2016 5:12 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> To be more specific, we just need links up to about 1.5 miles to be
> installed.  You can use them to replace existing links.  They are 300+Mbps
> full-duplex.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Bouse [Brazos
> WiFi]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:52 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project
>
>
>
> I got it too.  I’m 3 hrs from Dallas but it looks like Rory is looking for
> an operator with existing sites in the North Dallas area.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
>
> Owner
>
> Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
>
> 979-985-5912 <(979)%20985-5912>
>
> j...@brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project
>
>
>
> Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to
> 3 for others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.
>   I am booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Wireless Systems Architect
>
> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.
> The installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets
> you already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Jaime Solorza]

Alien Covenant.

On Dec 26, 2016 5:34 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> I liked it.i liked it a lot.  I kept thinking they're going to leave
> me hanging theyre going to leave me hanging. but in the end just
> about all of the storylines were resolved.
>
> No complaintsExcept I'd like to track down the idiots who gave it one
> or two stars On Rotten Tomatoes
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Jaime Solorza" 
> To: "Animal Farm" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
> Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2016 4:43 PM
>
> We enjoyed it... Campy but nice effects
> .saw it in XDP... It's a chic flick
>
> On Dec 26, 2016 12:53 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> We are getting munchies now..  Shutting down phone now...
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2016 12:52 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Headed there myself this afternoon
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>>> To: 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>> Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2016 1:34 PM
>>>
>>> Next year.
>>> And you get to pick something for her to wear.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2016 12:32 PM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>>
>>> In a few hours My wife wants me to wear this.   Aye Dios
>>>
>>> On Dec 26, 2016 11:23 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 Please post a movie review of Passengers after you see it.

 *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
 *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2016 10:21 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT working today?


 we're trying to get to Decatur (bigger city north of us) to see
 Passengers and visit Target but we're both hung over from yesterday
 that being said, our lowly town doesn't have a target - but we do have
 two walmarts and a distribution center for walmart

 there is an olive garden in decatur too

 no climate change there tho :)


 - Original Message -
 *From:* Chuck McCown
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2016 11:14 AM
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT working today?

 I was going in, but while waiting for my wife to decide to go in with
 me, I just now ran across the start of the first episode of Breaking Bad on
 my Directv Now (AMC).  ...   ...   .

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[Mike Hammett]

Sending more information that required may throw the case. It's best to know 
exactly what they want, if they can ask for it and then deliver only that. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Sovereen"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 3:05:19 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad? 

We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem. Most have been from 
local law enforcement agencies. Some from the FBI. The is the only one that I 
can think of that is from the Department of Justice and it has TONS of IP 
Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content providers. I really expected them to 
just say, “nevermind” when I told them it was a shared/NAT IP, but they didn’t. 


I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them the 
list. 


FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT connections are 
whose. 


Dave 




== 
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION 
David Sovereen 
989-837-3790 x 151 
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI 48640-4434 
http://www.mercury.net 





On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 





Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell them your 
concerns. Ask them for a name and you see if the name they are looking for is 
on your list. 
And it depends on who issued the subpoena too. Sometimes for telcos it is a 
domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other person called the 
boyfriend/girlfriend etc. I just talk to the lawyer and try to be helpful. 

If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing. I have 
gotten up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy that thought he 
was chatting with a 13 year old. 

I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new customers 
that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”. 




From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM 
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad? 


Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too. In the end you're likely going to 
end up giving them the list. You don't want to be a big pain in the rear and 
become a target for their retaliation. My main concern is that whoever actually 
approved the warrant approved what you can give them (customer identity vs 
identities) 


On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 



I'd be concerned about privacy violations. 

My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to push back 
just enough to make sure the judge understands the response is going to violate 
the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does. I can think of several 
strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them probably aren't worth a hill of 
beans. 


On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen" < david.sover...@mercury.net > wrote: 




What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a shared, NAT IP 
serving hundreds of customers? 

We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to pinpoint a 
specific customer. 

They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could be, no 
matter how many. This is the first time getting that kind of response. 
Normally, they just say okay and go away. 

Is the request too broad? 

Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers? 

Dave 




== 
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION 
David Sovereen 
989-837-3790 x 151 
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI 48640-4434 
http://www.mercury.net 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Josh Reynolds]

If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you
don't really need to log anything... do you?

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this hasn't
> been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but it
> might become an issue soon.
>
> Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
> I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port,
> and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does simply
> checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is
> there more to it?
>
> Has anybody tried the method on the wiki
> (http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444)
> where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea is
> you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a
> connection from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just need to
> keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like this would have a
> side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single
> customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.
>
> Thanks,
> Adam

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Robert]

Passengers:   Any engineer with 1/2 a clue would have stuck the "heat 
shield" in the port to wedge it open and gotten the heck out of the 
exhaust port channel...


On 12/26/16 12:53 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Don’t fall asleep in the movie:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/downtime/man-locked-in-theater-after-falling-asleep/vi-BBxAtmm





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2016 1:54 PM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



We are getting munchies now..  Shutting down phone now...



On Dec 26, 2016 12:52 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:



Headed there myself this afternoon



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone



- Reply message -
From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2016 1:34 PM



Next year.

And you get to pick something for her to wear.



*From:*Jaime Solorza

*Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 12:32 PM

*To:*Animal Farm

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



In a few hours My wife wants me to wear this.   Aye Dios



On Dec 26, 2016 11:23 AM, "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Please post a movie review of Passengers after you see it.



*From:*CBB - Jay Fuller

*Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 10:21 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT working today?





we're trying to get to Decatur (bigger city north of us) to see
Passengers and visit Target but we're both hung over from
yesterday

that being said, our lowly town doesn't have a target - but we
do have two walmarts and a distribution center for walmart



there is an olive garden in decatur too



no climate change there tho :)



- Original Message -

*From:*Chuck McCown

*To:*af@afmug.com 

*Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 11:14 AM

*Subject:*[AFMUG] OT working today?



I was going in, but while waiting for my wife to decide to
go in with me, I just now ran across the start of the first
episode of Breaking Bad on my Directv Now (AMC).  ...
...   .

Re: [AFMUG] OT Bay Area - Politics

[Robert]

Humboldt will become one of the largest agro-cultures in the US on Jan 
1st when all those pot farms have to start declaring their income...


On 12/26/16 2:00 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I don't consider Marin County all that "diverse". Bunch of whiny
latte-sipping yuppies if you ask me. Really, really small number of
Blacks. The Asian population is on the upswing, but they are more
hootie-tootie than a lot of the "whites". Same goes for a large portion
of Silicon Valley. The Asian population is exploding; approaching 33% in
areas like Apple-ville (AKA "Cupertino").

Humboldt County is almost all white. I can't remember ever seeing any
Black folks there, although I know of a few Asians. That said, there are
plenty that you will see toting a deer on the hood; at least during deer
season. In the off season they hide them in the back of the pickup.

Similar up here in the hills/coast area of San Mateo County. Not many
Blacks (I know 3 or 4), but quite a few Asians. I also know many people
that could be hauling deer on their hood (again during deer season).
We're on a first name basis with a couple of game wardens who are
frequently looking for the deer poachers, but it's basically a stand-off.

bp


On 12/26/2016 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Apologies to Bill

Metallica’s James Hetfield:


"I kind of got sick of the Bay Area, the attitudes of the people
there, a little bit," he said. "They talk about how diverse they are,
and things like that, and it's fine if you're diverse like them. But
showing up with a deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County. My
form of eating organic doesn't vibe with theirs.". . ."there was an
elitist attitude there — that if you weren't their way politically,
their way environmentally, all of that, that you were looked down upon."

I experienced the exact same thing in Humboldt County 26 years ago.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Bay Area - Politics

[Chuck McCown]

It was 26 years ago when I lived there.  They called it the emerald 
triangle.
The DEA used to fly over with helicopters dangling hoses with spray heads on 
them spraying roundup selectively.
The locals that were injured by the roundup were simultaneously protesting 
the US guvmnt over Desert Storm while signing up for food stamps.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert

Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Bay Area - Politics

Humboldt will become one of the largest agro-cultures in the US on Jan
1st when all those pot farms have to start declaring their income...

On 12/26/16 2:00 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I don't consider Marin County all that "diverse". Bunch of whiny
latte-sipping yuppies if you ask me. Really, really small number of
Blacks. The Asian population is on the upswing, but they are more
hootie-tootie than a lot of the "whites". Same goes for a large portion
of Silicon Valley. The Asian population is exploding; approaching 33% in
areas like Apple-ville (AKA "Cupertino").

Humboldt County is almost all white. I can't remember ever seeing any
Black folks there, although I know of a few Asians. That said, there are
plenty that you will see toting a deer on the hood; at least during deer
season. In the off season they hide them in the back of the pickup.

Similar up here in the hills/coast area of San Mateo County. Not many
Blacks (I know 3 or 4), but quite a few Asians. I also know many people
that could be hauling deer on their hood (again during deer season).
We're on a first name basis with a couple of game wardens who are
frequently looking for the deer poachers, but it's basically a stand-off.

bp


On 12/26/2016 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Apologies to Bill

Metallica’s James Hetfield:


"I kind of got sick of the Bay Area, the attitudes of the people
there, a little bit," he said. "They talk about how diverse they are,
and things like that, and it's fine if you're diverse like them. But
showing up with a deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County. My
form of eating organic doesn't vibe with theirs.". . ."there was an
elitist attitude there — that if you weren't their way politically,
their way environmentally, all of that, that you were looked down upon."

I experienced the exact same thing in Humboldt County 26 years ago.

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Lewis Bergman]

I'll do it for 3 times whatever they are paying you. Seriously though, I
hate Dallas. I am sure somebody will help.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 6:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Brad Belton use to handle that area... Not sure what he is up to
> nowadays...
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 5:12 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>
> To be more specific, we just need links up to about 1.5 miles to be
> installed.  You can use them to replace existing links.  They are 300+Mbps
> full-duplex.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Bouse [Brazos
> WiFi]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:52 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project
>
>
>
> I got it too.  I’m 3 hrs from Dallas but it looks like Rory is looking for
> an operator with existing sites in the North Dallas area.
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
>
> Owner
>
> Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
>
> 979-985-5912 <(979)%20985-5912>
>
> j...@brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project
>
>
>
> Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to
> 3 for others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.
>   I am booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Wireless Systems Architect
>
> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
> I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.
> The installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets
> you already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Jaime Solorza]

Funny... I don't like it much either...

On Dec 27, 2016 6:07 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> I'll do it for 3 times whatever they are paying you. Seriously though, I
> hate Dallas. I am sure somebody will help.
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 6:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Brad Belton use to handle that area... Not sure what he is up to
>> nowadays...
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016 5:12 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:
>>
>> To be more specific, we just need links up to about 1.5 miles to be
>> installed.  You can use them to replace existing links.  They are 300+Mbps
>> full-duplex.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Bouse
>> [Brazos WiFi]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:52 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project
>>
>>
>>
>> I got it too.  I’m 3 hrs from Dallas but it looks like Rory is looking
>> for an operator with existing sites in the North Dallas area.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Bouse
>>
>> Owner
>>
>> Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
>>
>> 979-985-5912 <(979)%20985-5912>
>>
>> j...@brazoswifi.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project
>>
>>
>>
>> Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to
>> 3 for others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.
>>   I am booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!
>>
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>
>> 915-861-1390 <(915)%20861-1390>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.
>> The installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets
>> you already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Jaime Solorza]

Stop making sense

On Dec 27, 2016 5:53 PM, "Robert"  wrote:

> Passengers:   Any engineer with 1/2 a clue would have stuck the "heat
> shield" in the port to wedge it open and gotten the heck out of the exhaust
> port channel...
>
> On 12/26/16 12:53 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>> Don’t fall asleep in the movie:
>>
>> http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/downtime/man-locked-in-theate
>> r-after-falling-asleep/vi-BBxAtmm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2016 1:54 PM
>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>>
>>
>> We are getting munchies now..  Shutting down phone now...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2016 12:52 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" > > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Headed there myself this afternoon
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
>> To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>> Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2016 1:34 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Next year.
>>
>> And you get to pick something for her to wear.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*Jaime Solorza
>>
>> *Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 12:32 PM
>>
>> *To:*Animal Farm
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>>
>>
>> In a few hours My wife wants me to wear this.   Aye Dios
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2016 11:23 AM, "Chuck McCown" > > wrote:
>>
>> Please post a movie review of Passengers after you see it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*CBB - Jay Fuller
>>
>> *Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 10:21 AM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com 
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT working today?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> we're trying to get to Decatur (bigger city north of us) to see
>> Passengers and visit Target but we're both hung over from
>> yesterday
>>
>> that being said, our lowly town doesn't have a target - but we
>> do have two walmarts and a distribution center for walmart
>>
>>
>>
>> there is an olive garden in decatur too
>>
>>
>>
>> no climate change there tho :)
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>
>> *From:*Chuck McCown
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com 
>>
>> *Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 11:14 AM
>>
>> *Subject:*[AFMUG] OT working today?
>>
>>
>>
>> I was going in, but while waiting for my wife to decide to
>> go in with me, I just now ran across the start of the first
>> episode of Breaking Bad on my Directv Now (AMC).  ...
>> ...   .
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

[Rory Conaway]

Yea, I wish.  I’m not involved in this one.  I’m passing it forward.  Too much 
on my plate already.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 6:08 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project


I'll do it for 3 times whatever they are paying you. Seriously though, I hate 
Dallas. I am sure somebody will help.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 6:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Brad Belton use to handle that area... Not sure what he is up to nowadays...

On Dec 27, 2016 5:12 PM, "Rory Conaway" 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
To be more specific, we just need links up to about 1.5 miles to be installed.  
You can use them to replace existing links.  They are 300+Mbps full-duplex.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 4:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

I got it too.  I’m 3 hrs from Dallas but it looks like Rory is looking for an 
operator with existing sites in the North Dallas area.

Jim Bouse
Owner
Mobile IT Pro - Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] North Dallas project

Was this sent to me only?   North Dallas is 8 hours from me and only 2 to 3 for 
others on the list...even Lewis Bergman is only a 3 hours from Big D.   I am 
booked through January here in El Paso with two projects for guvnmt!

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Rory Conaway 
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net>> wrote:
I’ve got a project where we need to set up a couple of PTP/PTMP links.  The 
installation will need to use either existing or other vertical assets you 
already have.  Hit me offlist if interested.

Rory

Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

[Andreas Wiatowski]

I don't know Gino...I'm not willing to Gamble with my 450m ;.)

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4238 x-600
http://www.silowireless.com
Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Gino Villarini 
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:

Is this the same as the ptp600 ? I guess no?

On 12/27/16, 2:04 PM, "Af on behalf of Tushar Patel" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

on behalf of tpa...@ecpi.com> wrote:

>That is what we are using for now.
>
>Tushar
>
>
>> On Dec 27, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Wiatowski
>>mailto:andr...@silowireless.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Just got our 450m's
>>
>> Can I use a 650 (Heavy duty model) PS to power up the 450m?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> __
>> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
>> Silo Wireless Inc.
>> Email  andr...@silowireless.com
>> 19 Sage Court
>> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
>> Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free
>>+1.866.727.4138
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sullivan
>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:58 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux
>>
>> I found a "Brand X" POE adapter with an output of:
>> 54V - 1.5A (80W)+ on (1,2) (4,5)  and - on (7,8) (3,6)
>>
>> Is this a sufficient POE?  Found them for $29.00
>>
>>> On 12/14/2016 11:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>> You can power the medusa in any of several different ways The
>>> stock power supply, a PacketFlux PowerInjector+Sync, some of Chuck's
>>> products, etc.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

[George Skorup]

The 450m needs 70 watts. I thought the PTP650 brick is only 60W?

If it was me, I'd just use a PacketFlux GigE PowerInjector+Sync. Or even 
just a GIGE-POE-APC card and a 48V 100W power supply for a one-off 450m.


On 12/27/2016 7:47 PM, Andreas Wiatowski wrote:

I don't know Gino...I'm not willing to Gamble with my 450m ;.)

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4238 x-600
http://www.silowireless.com
Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Gino Villarini > wrote:



Is this the same as the ptp600 ? I guess no�

On 12/27/16, 2:04 PM, "Af on behalf of Tushar Patel" 
mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>


*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

on behalf of tpa...@ecpi.com > wrote:

>That is what we are using for now.
>
>Tushar
>
>
>> On Dec 27, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Wiatowski
>>mailto:andr...@silowireless.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Just got our 450m's
>>
>> Can I use a 650 (Heavy duty model) PS to power up the 450m?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> __
>> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
>> Silo Wireless Inc.
>> Email andr...@silowireless.com 
>> 19 Sage Court
>> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
>> Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free
>>+1.866.727.4138
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sullivan
>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:58 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux
>>
>> I found a "Brand X" POE adapter with an output of:
>> 54V - 1.5A (80W)+ on (1,2) (4,5)  and - on (7,8) (3,6)
>>
>> Is this a sufficient POE?  Found them for $29.00
>>
>>> On 12/14/2016 11:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>> You can power the medusa in any of several different ways The
>>> stock power supply, a PacketFlux PowerInjector+Sync, some of Chuck's
>>> products, etc.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Mathew Howard]

The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are
generally just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from
something like, say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any
log of that sort of thing?

Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA
takedown notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure
how you would use it to track down a specific customer when all they give
you is the IP address...

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you
> don't really need to log anything... do you?
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> > A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this
> hasn't
> > been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but
> it
> > might become an issue soon.
> >
> > Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
> > I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port,
> > and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does simply
> > checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is
> > there more to it?
> >
> > Has anybody tried the method on the wiki
> > (http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#
> Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444)
> > where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea is
> > you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a
> > connection from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just need
> to
> > keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like this would have a
> > side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single
> > customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Adam
>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Eric Kuhnke]

Assuming you have a NAT and dhcp pools of IPs defined inside the NAT,
unique pool per POP, if you do not have log files from your dhcp daemon,
you are taking a terrible risk...  Log files are small relative to the cost
of disk space. In setups I have built in the past with the ISC dhcpd we
kept logs going back 24 months for which CPE at which MAC address had which
IP address (whether internal or an ARIN IP) at any given point in time,
including the lease/assignment handshake.



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are
> generally just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from
> something like, say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any
> log of that sort of thing?
>
> Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA
> takedown notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure
> how you would use it to track down a specific customer when all they give
> you is the IP address...
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you
>> don't really need to log anything... do you?
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>> > A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this
>> hasn't
>> > been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public
>> IP's...but it
>> > might become an issue soon.
>> >
>> > Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
>> > I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip,
>> src-port,
>> > and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does simply
>> > checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or
>> is
>> > there more to it?
>> >
>> > Has anybody tried the method on the wiki
>> > (http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrie
>> r-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444)
>> > where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea
>> is
>> > you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a
>> > connection from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just need
>> to
>> > keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like this would have a
>> > side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single
>> > customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Adam
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Mike Hammett]

Require a port number to proceed? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 7:58:21 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods 



The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are generally 
just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from something like, 
say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any log of that sort of 
thing? 


Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA takedown 
notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure how you would 
use it to track down a specific customer when all they give you is the IP 
address... 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 


If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you 
don't really need to log anything... do you? 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder. Historically this hasn't 
> been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but it 
> might become an issue soon. 
> 
> Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik? 
> I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port, 
> and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens. Does simply 
> checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is 
> there more to it? 
> 
> Has anybody tried the method on the wiki 
> ( 
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
>  ) 
> where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP? The idea is 
> you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a 
> connection from port x corresponds to private ip y. Then you just need to 
> keep track of who has which private IP. It seems like this would have a 
> side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single 
> customer could openmaybe not a bad thing. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Adam 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Mathew Howard]

Well, yeah, I guess that's better than just telling them "I have no idea,
it could be any of these 100 customers"... and if there's no more
information to be had, there's not much they can do (unless there are laws
requiring us to track this stuff, that I'm not aware of). But as far as
actually being able to help, I'm wondering if anybody is actually going to
be logging port numbers on the other end of things.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Require a port number to proceed?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 27, 2016 7:58:21 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods
>
> The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are
> generally just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from
> something like, say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any
> log of that sort of thing?
>
> Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA
> takedown notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure
> how you would use it to track down a specific customer when all they give
> you is the IP address...
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you
>> don't really need to log anything... do you?
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>> > A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this
>> hasn't
>> > been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public
>> IP's...but it
>> > might become an issue soon.
>> >
>> > Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
>> > I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip,
>> src-port,
>> > and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does simply
>> > checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or
>> is
>> > there more to it?
>> >
>> > Has anybody tried the method on the wiki
>> > (http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#
>> Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444)
>> > where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea
>> is
>> > you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a
>> > connection from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just need
>> to
>> > keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like this would have a
>> > side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single
>> > customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Adam
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Mike Hammett]

I'm sure the big guys are anyway. Big data. Track everything, sort it out 
later. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 8:07:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods 


Well, yeah, I guess that's better than just telling them "I have no idea, it 
could be any of these 100 customers"... and if there's no more information to 
be had, there's not much they can do (unless there are laws requiring us to 
track this stuff, that I'm not aware of). But as far as actually being able to 
help, I'm wondering if anybody is actually going to be logging port numbers on 
the other end of things. 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Require a port number to proceed? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > 
To: "af" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 7:58:21 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods 



The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are generally 
just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from something like, 
say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any log of that sort of 
thing? 


Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA takedown 
notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure how you would 
use it to track down a specific customer when all they give you is the IP 
address... 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 




If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you 
don't really need to log anything... do you? 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder. Historically this hasn't 
> been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but it 
> might become an issue soon. 
> 
> Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik? 
> I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port, 
> and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens. Does simply 
> checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is 
> there more to it? 
> 
> Has anybody tried the method on the wiki 
> ( 
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
>  ) 
> where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP? The idea is 
> you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a 
> connection from port x corresponds to private ip y. Then you just need to 
> keep track of who has which private IP. It seems like this would have a 
> side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single 
> customer could openmaybe not a bad thing. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Adam 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Mathew Howard]

Keeping logs of who is on what IP at any given time is a simple enough
matter, but if there are 50 customers on private IPs NAT'd to a single
public IP, and all the subpoena gives you is the public IP, I'm not sure
how that helps.

I'm hoping we'll have IPv6 working on all our customers by the time we run
out of IPv4 address, and we can just run dual stack with CGNAT... I'm
thinking the combination of having port blocks assigned to specific private
IPs and IPv6 would cover the majority of these cases.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Assuming you have a NAT and dhcp pools of IPs defined inside the NAT,
> unique pool per POP, if you do not have log files from your dhcp daemon,
> you are taking a terrible risk...  Log files are small relative to the cost
> of disk space. In setups I have built in the past with the ISC dhcpd we
> kept logs going back 24 months for which CPE at which MAC address had which
> IP address (whether internal or an ARIN IP) at any given point in time,
> including the lease/assignment handshake.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are
>> generally just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from
>> something like, say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any
>> log of that sort of thing?
>>
>> Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA
>> takedown notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure
>> how you would use it to track down a specific customer when all they give
>> you is the IP address...
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you
>>> don't really need to log anything... do you?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>> > A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this
>>> hasn't
>>> > been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public
>>> IP's...but it
>>> > might become an issue soon.
>>> >
>>> > Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
>>> > I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip,
>>> src-port,
>>> > and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does simply
>>> > checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or
>>> is
>>> > there more to it?
>>> >
>>> > Has anybody tried the method on the wiki
>>> > (http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrie
>>> r-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444)
>>> > where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea
>>> is
>>> > you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a
>>> > connection from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just
>>> need to
>>> > keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like this would have
>>> a
>>> > side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single
>>> > customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Adam
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

[Ken Hohhof]

It's going to be a sad day when lightning hits someone's tower with 4 x
450m.

 

No different than LTE basestations I guess.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Wiatowski
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 7:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux

 

I don't know Gino...I'm not willing to Gamble with my 450m ;.)

Cheers, 

 

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO

Silo Wireless Inc.

1-866-727-4238 x-600

http://www.silowireless.com

Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV


On Dec 27, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com> > wrote:

Is this the same as the ptp600 ? I guess noŠ

On 12/27/16, 2:04 PM, "Af on behalf of Tushar Patel" mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> 


 

Gino Villarini


President


Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968



on behalf of tpa...@ecpi.com  > wrote:

>That is what we are using for now.
>
>Tushar
>
>
>> On Dec 27, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Wiatowski
>>mailto:andr...@silowireless.com> > wrote:
>>
>> Just got our 450m's
>>
>> Can I use a 650 (Heavy duty model) PS to power up the 450m?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> __
>> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO
>> Silo Wireless Inc.
>> Email  andr...@silowireless.com  
>> 19 Sage Court
>> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)
>> Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free
>>+1.866.727.4138
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sullivan
>> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 10:58 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com  
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM5 vs Packetflux
>>
>> I found a "Brand X" POE adapter with an output of:
>> 54V - 1.5A (80W)+ on (1,2) (4,5)  and - on (7,8) (3,6)
>>
>> Is this a sufficient POE?  Found them for $29.00
>>
>>> On 12/14/2016 11:07 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>> You can power the medusa in any of several different ways The
>>> stock power supply, a PacketFlux PowerInjector+Sync, some of Chuck's
>>> products, etc.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Ken Hohhof]

Notices typically include port number, Rightscorp certainly does.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 8:08 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

 

Well, yeah, I guess that's better than just telling them "I have no idea, it 
could be any of these 100 customers"... and if there's no more information to 
be had, there's not much they can do (unless there are laws requiring us to 
track this stuff, that I'm not aware of). But as far as actually being able to 
help, I'm wondering if anybody is actually going to be logging port numbers on 
the other end of things.

 

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

Require a port number to proceed?



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >
To: "af" mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 7:58:21 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are generally 
just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from something like, 
say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any log of that sort of 
thing?

Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA takedown 
notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure how you would 
use it to track down a specific customer when all they give you is the IP 
address...

 

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com> > wrote:

If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you
don't really need to log anything... do you?


On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:
> A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.  Historically this hasn't
> been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but it
> might become an issue soon.
>
> Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
> I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port,
> and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.  Does simply
> checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is
> there more to it?
>
> Has anybody tried the method on the wiki
> (http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444)
> where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP?  The idea is
> you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a
> connection from port x corresponds to private ip y.  Then you just need to
> keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like this would have a
> side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single
> customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.
>
> Thanks,
> Adam

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[George Skorup]

Yeah.. "Who/what was using x.x.x.x on Dec. 21st?" How about a source 
port # with that? "No port." OK, sorry, can't help you. Gimme a port and 
I'll run a netflow report. The DMCA turds do this: x.x.x.x:49152 was 
sharing movie X. Those are easy.


I have also recently started dedicating a public IP per L2 segment and 
NATing ports 3074-3076 to it. Works great for quickly shutting down a 
DDoS by sending that specific IP (instead of a NAT pool address) to our 
RTBH peers. The Xboxies don't work no more, but I don't give a shit. Cry 
me a river. If the kids (and adult kids) want to talk shit and get 
DDoS'd, fuck em.


On 12/27/2016 8:17 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Keeping logs of who is on what IP at any given time is a simple enough 
matter, but if there are 50 customers on private IPs NAT'd to a single 
public IP, and all the subpoena gives you is the public IP, I'm not 
sure how that helps.


I'm hoping we'll have IPv6 working on all our customers by the time we 
run out of IPv4 address, and we can just run dual stack with CGNAT... 
I'm thinking the combination of having port blocks assigned to 
specific private IPs and IPv6 would cover the majority of these cases.


On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote:


Assuming you have a NAT and dhcp pools of IPs defined inside the
NAT, unique pool per POP, if you do not have log files from your
dhcp daemon, you are taking a terrible risk...  Log files are
small relative to the cost of disk space. In setups I have built
in the past with the ISC dhcpd we kept logs going back 24 months
for which CPE at which MAC address had which IP address (whether
internal or an ARIN IP) at any given point in time, including the
lease/assignment handshake.



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've
gotten are generally just an IP address, and a time period...
if this is coming from something like, say, a facebook post,
is there typically going to be any log of that sort of thing?

Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like
bittorrent DMCA takedown notices, where they give you port
information, but I'm not sure how you would use it to track
down a specific customer when all they give you is the IP
address...

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds
mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in
Juniper), you
don't really need to log anything... do you?

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder.
Historically this hasn't
> been an issue for me because I've had access to enough
public IP's...but it
> might become an issue soon.
>
> Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik?
> I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip,
dst-ip, src-port,
> and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens.
Does simply
> checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate
enough data or is
> there more to it?
>
> Has anybody tried the method on the wiki
>

(http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444

)
> where you assign a range of port numbers to each private
IP? The idea is
> you don't have to log everything at that point because
you know that a
> connection from port x corresponds to private ip y. 
Then you just need to

> keep track of who has which private IP.  It seems like
this would have a
> side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous
connections a single
> customer could openmaybe not a bad thing.
>
> Thanks,
> Adam

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Mike Hammett]

Carriers and hardware with better Netflow support would make this so much 
easier. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 8:40:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods 

Yeah.. "Who/what was using x.x.x.x on Dec. 21st?" How about a source port # 
with that? "No port." OK, sorry, can't help you. Gimme a port and I'll run a 
netflow report. The DMCA turds do this: x.x.x.x:49152 was sharing movie X. 
Those are easy. 

I have also recently started dedicating a public IP per L2 segment and NATing 
ports 3074-3076 to it. Works great for quickly shutting down a DDoS by sending 
that specific IP (instead of a NAT pool address) to our RTBH peers. The Xboxies 
don't work no more, but I don't give a shit. Cry me a river. If the kids (and 
adult kids) want to talk shit and get DDoS'd, fuck em. 


On 12/27/2016 8:17 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: 




Keeping logs of who is on what IP at any given time is a simple enough matter, 
but if there are 50 customers on private IPs NAT'd to a single public IP, and 
all the subpoena gives you is the public IP, I'm not sure how that helps. 

I'm hoping we'll have IPv6 working on all our customers by the time we run out 
of IPv4 address, and we can just run dual stack with CGNAT... I'm thinking the 
combination of having port blocks assigned to specific private IPs and IPv6 
would cover the majority of these cases. 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Assuming you have a NAT and dhcp pools of IPs defined inside the NAT, unique 
pool per POP, if you do not have log files from your dhcp daemon, you are 
taking a terrible risk... Log files are small relative to the cost of disk 
space. In setups I have built in the past with the ISC dhcpd we kept logs going 
back 24 months for which CPE at which MAC address had which IP address (whether 
internal or an ARIN IP) at any given point in time, including the 
lease/assignment handshake. 






On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are generally 
just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from something like, 
say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any log of that sort of 
thing? 


Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA takedown 
notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure how you would 
use it to track down a specific customer when all they give you is the IP 
address... 





On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 




If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you 
don't really need to log anything... do you? 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder. Historically this hasn't 
> been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but it 
> might become an issue soon. 
> 
> Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik? 
> I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port, 
> and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens. Does simply 
> checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is 
> there more to it? 
> 
> Has anybody tried the method on the wiki 
> ( 
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
>  ) 
> where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP? The idea is 
> you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a 
> connection from port x corresponds to private ip y. Then you just need to 
> keep track of who has which private IP. It seems like this would have a 
> side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single 
> customer could openmaybe not a bad thing. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Adam 

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods

[Mike Hammett]

Sorry, flowspec. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 8:41:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods 


Carriers and hardware with better Netflow support would make this so much 
easier. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 8:40:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik - Carrier Grade NAT methods 

Yeah.. "Who/what was using x.x.x.x on Dec. 21st?" How about a source port # 
with that? "No port." OK, sorry, can't help you. Gimme a port and I'll run a 
netflow report. The DMCA turds do this: x.x.x.x:49152 was sharing movie X. 
Those are easy. 

I have also recently started dedicating a public IP per L2 segment and NATing 
ports 3074-3076 to it. Works great for quickly shutting down a DDoS by sending 
that specific IP (instead of a NAT pool address) to our RTBH peers. The Xboxies 
don't work no more, but I don't give a shit. Cry me a river. If the kids (and 
adult kids) want to talk shit and get DDoS'd, fuck em. 


On 12/27/2016 8:17 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: 




Keeping logs of who is on what IP at any given time is a simple enough matter, 
but if there are 50 customers on private IPs NAT'd to a single public IP, and 
all the subpoena gives you is the public IP, I'm not sure how that helps. 

I'm hoping we'll have IPv6 working on all our customers by the time we run out 
of IPv4 address, and we can just run dual stack with CGNAT... I'm thinking the 
combination of having port blocks assigned to specific private IPs and IPv6 
would cover the majority of these cases. 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Assuming you have a NAT and dhcp pools of IPs defined inside the NAT, unique 
pool per POP, if you do not have log files from your dhcp daemon, you are 
taking a terrible risk... Log files are small relative to the cost of disk 
space. In setups I have built in the past with the ISC dhcpd we kept logs going 
back 24 months for which CPE at which MAC address had which IP address (whether 
internal or an ARIN IP) at any given point in time, including the 
lease/assignment handshake. 






On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 




The problem I see with that though, is the subpoenas we've gotten are generally 
just an IP address, and a time period... if this is coming from something like, 
say, a facebook post, is there typically going to be any log of that sort of 
thing? 


Assigning port blocks would work fine for things like bittorrent DMCA takedown 
notices, where they give you port information, but I'm not sure how you would 
use it to track down a specific customer when all they give you is the IP 
address... 





On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 6:51 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 




If you assign a port block per customer (PBA NAT in Juniper), you 
don't really need to log anything... do you? 



On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> A recent thread about a subpoena made me wonder. Historically this hasn't 
> been an issue for me because I've had access to enough public IP's...but it 
> might become an issue soon. 
> 
> Has anybody set up CGN with appropriate logging on Mikrotik? 
> I'm thinking you would have to log every set of src-ip, dst-ip, src-port, 
> and dst-port for each connection that a customer opens. Does simply 
> checking the "log" checkbox on the srcnat rule generate enough data or is 
> there more to it? 
> 
> Has anybody tried the method on the wiki 
> ( 
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:IP/Firewall/NAT#Carrier-Grade_NAT_.28CGNAT.29_or_NAT444
>  ) 
> where you assign a range of port numbers to each private IP? The idea is 
> you don't have to log everything at that point because you know that a 
> connection from port x corresponds to private ip y. Then you just need to 
> keep track of who has which private IP. It seems like this would have a 
> side effect of limiting the number of simultaneous connections a single 
> customer could openmaybe not a bad thing. 
> 
> Thanks, 
> Adam 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

lol - i guesss i don't have a clue. i didn't think that at the time
i thought  he gonna die!

  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 6:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  Passengers:   Any engineer with 1/2 a clue would have stuck the "heat 
  shield" in the port to wedge it open and gotten the heck out of the 
  exhaust port channel...

  On 12/26/16 12:53 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
  > Don’t fall asleep in the movie:
  >
  > 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/downtime/man-locked-in-theater-after-falling-asleep/vi-BBxAtmm
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
  > *Sent:* Monday, December 26, 2016 1:54 PM
  > *To:* Animal Farm 
  > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
  >
  >
  >
  > We are getting munchies now..  Shutting down phone now...
  >
  >
  >
  > On Dec 26, 2016 12:52 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > wrote:
  >
  >
  >
  > Headed there myself this afternoon
  >
  >
  >
  > Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
  >
  >
  >
  > - Reply message -
  > From: "Chuck McCown" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
  > To: mailto:af@afmug.com>>
  > Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
  > Date: Mon, Dec 26, 2016 1:34 PM
  >
  >
  >
  > Next year.
  >
  > And you get to pick something for her to wear.
  >
  >
  >
  > *From:*Jaime Solorza
  >
  > *Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 12:32 PM
  >
  > *To:*Animal Farm
  >
  > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
  >
  >
  >
  > In a few hours My wife wants me to wear this.   Aye Dios
  >
  >
  >
  > On Dec 26, 2016 11:23 AM, "Chuck McCown"  > wrote:
  >
  > Please post a movie review of Passengers after you see it.
  >
  >
  >
  > *From:*CBB - Jay Fuller
  >
  > *Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 10:21 AM
  >
  > *To:*af@afmug.com 
  >
  > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT working today?
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > we're trying to get to Decatur (bigger city north of us) to see
  > Passengers and visit Target but we're both hung over from
  > yesterday
  >
  > that being said, our lowly town doesn't have a target - but we
  > do have two walmarts and a distribution center for walmart
  >
  >
  >
  > there is an olive garden in decatur too
  >
  >
  >
  > no climate change there tho :)
  >
  >
  >
  > - Original Message -
  >
  > *From:*Chuck McCown
  >
  > *To:*af@afmug.com 
  >
  > *Sent:*Monday, December 26, 2016 11:14 AM
  >
  > *Subject:*[AFMUG] OT working today?
  >
  >
  >
  > I was going in, but while waiting for my wife to decide to
  > go in with me, I just now ran across the start of the first
  > episode of Breaking Bad on my Directv Now (AMC).  ...
  > ...   .
  >

Re: [AFMUG] OT Bay Area - Politics

[Bill Prince]

We have relatives up in Humboldt. Word on the street is that everyone 
will start growing their own (that's the optimistic view), or big 
agri-business is going to drive out all the locals. I don't know which. 
Probably something in between.



bp


On 12/27/2016 4:53 PM, Robert wrote:
Humboldt will become one of the largest agro-cultures in the US on Jan 
1st when all those pot farms have to start declaring their income...


On 12/26/16 2:00 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I don't consider Marin County all that "diverse". Bunch of whiny
latte-sipping yuppies if you ask me. Really, really small number of
Blacks. The Asian population is on the upswing, but they are more
hootie-tootie than a lot of the "whites". Same goes for a large portion
of Silicon Valley. The Asian population is exploding; approaching 33% in
areas like Apple-ville (AKA "Cupertino").

Humboldt County is almost all white. I can't remember ever seeing any
Black folks there, although I know of a few Asians. That said, there are
plenty that you will see toting a deer on the hood; at least during deer
season. In the off season they hide them in the back of the pickup.

Similar up here in the hills/coast area of San Mateo County. Not many
Blacks (I know 3 or 4), but quite a few Asians. I also know many people
that could be hauling deer on their hood (again during deer season).
We're on a first name basis with a couple of game wardens who are
frequently looking for the deer poachers, but it's basically a 
stand-off.


bp


On 12/26/2016 12:01 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Apologies to Bill

Metallica’s James Hetfield:


"I kind of got sick of the Bay Area, the attitudes of the people
there, a little bit," he said. "They talk about how diverse they are,
and things like that, and it's fine if you're diverse like them. But
showing up with a deer on the bumper doesn't fly in Marin County. My
form of eating organic doesn't vibe with theirs.". . ."there was an
elitist attitude there — that if you weren't their way politically,
their way environmentally, all of that, that you were looked down 
upon."


I experienced the exact same thing in Humboldt County 26 years ago.