Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
I was going to say No SFP is a deal breaker for me, but not really. Our “top to bottom” is isolated with fiber and dual 48v protectors into an S16. Short run of copper from S16 to a POE driven device (with a POE protector inline also). Not perfect, but I am anticipating the arrival of an S16 type device with lots of Fiber ports about the same time that manufacturers start coming out with Fiber AP options are you listening Cambium?? Paul From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 7:29 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience AF11x doesn't have an SFP. That's about the only thing I can say about it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 12, 2017 6:14 PM, "Jon Langeler" mailto:jon-ispli...@michwave.net>> wrote: What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> From: "Josh Baird" mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Yeah, I agree that those radios should be considered a different class than the more traditional licensed radios... but I'm not sure I'd use the same criteria to classify them. The B11 has an SFP port, and the AF11 has a direct DC connector... I can't find any mention of whether it will take -48, but I suspect it has a floating ground - for that matter I would guess you could run the B11 off -48vDC too (although you would have to feed it through the ethernet port). On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > > With modern radios in the 35W to 50W max load range, you can go a > surprisingly long distance with 18AWG stranded copper (such as from > basement to roof of a 45 floor building) with voltage drop that is totally > within the acceptable operating range limits of modern licensed band -48VDC > fed radios. > > Such as starting from whatever your 52-53VDC float voltage is in the > basement and as measured at the radio, far above 45VDC at the roof. > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > >> What he said... plus the wires can be smaller and less cost. >> >> *From:* Eric Kuhnke >> *Sent:* Monday, January 16, 2017 1:36 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Say that again when you're building pure Ethernet 1, 10 and 100GbE >> backbone links for an ISP that has its own AS, traffic exchanges at >> multiple IXes and spans a 3-state sized area... -48VDC is not obsolete, >> it's an industry standard for many good reasons. >> >> -48VDC is very useful unless you enjoy masochism and building power >> systems that go AC-to-DC-to-AC-to-DC (AC wall power, to the AC input of a >> true sinewave AC-input/AC-output UPS, running loads off its inverter with a >> DC battery bank inverter, fed through its output to the AC power inputs to >> equipment like switches which run on 12VDC power internally inside the >> equipment). >> >> Also much higher efficiency whether you have a POP with a thermal load of >> 1, 5, 15 or 20kW. >> >> That's before I even get into the idea of photovoltaic/off-grid 48VDC >> systems which have no AC powered equipment whatsoever. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Robert wrote: >> >>> Seems to me caring about -48VDC power feeds would be like caring about >>> ATM transport on fiber... Legacy considerations but not necessary for new >>> infrastructure moving forward. SFP ports are modern capability... >>> >>> On 1/16/17 11:58 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: >>> >>> In my opinion things like the B11 and AF11X should be considered in >>> their own special low cost category... It wins in bps/$ and other figures, >>> but if you divide licensed band 11, 18 and 23 GHz radios (FCC band plan) >>> into generally two categories: >>> >>> a) Radios that take direct -48VDC power feeds and have SFP ports >>> >>> b) Radios that do not take direct -48VDC and/or do not have an SFP port >>> >>> There's an emerging divide between the two categories, where you have >>> things like the 1024QAM radios from traditional FDD manufacturers in >>> category B, and things like the B11 and AF11X in category A. >>> >>> Category A will probably be a huge growth market for small WISPs that >>> have no reasonable expectation of affording a $14,000 licensed link any >>> time soon. >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Mathew Howard >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Well, comparing bits/mhz/$, I really don't think anything else comes >>>> close to the AF11... the B11 might beat it on bits/$ (it's close anyway, >>>> and it has the advantage of more overall capacity... and SFP), and plenty >>>> of other radios can beat it on bits/mhz, but comparing all three the AF11 >>>> is a pretty clear winner. >>>> >>>> So what it really comes down to, is if it can handle enough bandwidth >>>> for a given link in the available spectrum. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… >>>>> >>>>> I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios >>>>> >>>>> From: Af on behalf of Josh Reynolds < >>>>> j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >>>>> Date: Saturd
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
With modern radios in the 35W to 50W max load range, you can go a surprisingly long distance with 18AWG stranded copper (such as from basement to roof of a 45 floor building) with voltage drop that is totally within the acceptable operating range limits of modern licensed band -48VDC fed radios. Such as starting from whatever your 52-53VDC float voltage is in the basement and as measured at the radio, far above 45VDC at the roof. On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: > What he said... plus the wires can be smaller and less cost. > > *From:* Eric Kuhnke > *Sent:* Monday, January 16, 2017 1:36 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Say that again when you're building pure Ethernet 1, 10 and 100GbE > backbone links for an ISP that has its own AS, traffic exchanges at > multiple IXes and spans a 3-state sized area... -48VDC is not obsolete, > it's an industry standard for many good reasons. > > -48VDC is very useful unless you enjoy masochism and building power > systems that go AC-to-DC-to-AC-to-DC (AC wall power, to the AC input of a > true sinewave AC-input/AC-output UPS, running loads off its inverter with a > DC battery bank inverter, fed through its output to the AC power inputs to > equipment like switches which run on 12VDC power internally inside the > equipment). > > Also much higher efficiency whether you have a POP with a thermal load of > 1, 5, 15 or 20kW. > > That's before I even get into the idea of photovoltaic/off-grid 48VDC > systems which have no AC powered equipment whatsoever. > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Robert wrote: > >> Seems to me caring about -48VDC power feeds would be like caring about >> ATM transport on fiber... Legacy considerations but not necessary for new >> infrastructure moving forward. SFP ports are modern capability... >> >> On 1/16/17 11:58 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: >> >> In my opinion things like the B11 and AF11X should be considered in their >> own special low cost category... It wins in bps/$ and other figures, but >> if you divide licensed band 11, 18 and 23 GHz radios (FCC band plan) into >> generally two categories: >> >> a) Radios that take direct -48VDC power feeds and have SFP ports >> >> b) Radios that do not take direct -48VDC and/or do not have an SFP port >> >> There's an emerging divide between the two categories, where you have >> things like the 1024QAM radios from traditional FDD manufacturers in >> category B, and things like the B11 and AF11X in category A. >> >> Category A will probably be a huge growth market for small WISPs that >> have no reasonable expectation of affording a $14,000 licensed link any >> time soon. >> >> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Mathew Howard >> wrote: >> >>> Well, comparing bits/mhz/$, I really don't think anything else comes >>> close to the AF11... the B11 might beat it on bits/$ (it's close anyway, >>> and it has the advantage of more overall capacity... and SFP), and plenty >>> of other radios can beat it on bits/mhz, but comparing all three the AF11 >>> is a pretty clear winner. >>> >>> So what it really comes down to, is if it can handle enough bandwidth >>> for a given link in the available spectrum. >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… >>>> >>>> I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios >>>> >>>> From: Af on behalf of Josh Reynolds < >>>> j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >>>> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM >>>> To: "af@afmug.com" >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>>> >>>> There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with >>>> the hitless ARQ modulation change support. >>>> >>>> Basically, it's a trade-off. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Gino Villarini* >>>> President >>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>>> >>>> On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: >>>> >>>>> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but >>>>> they get worse throughput. *sigh* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - >>>>
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
No, caring about –48 VDC is kinda like caring about 400HZ ac if you decide to move from little planes to airlines and large military. It is the defacto standard for very good reasons. All the big boys do –48. Always have, always will. On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Robert wrote: Seems to me caring about -48VDC power feeds would be like caring about ATM transport on fiber... Legacy considerations but not necessary for new infrastructure moving forward. SFP ports are modern capability...
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
In my opinion things like the B11 and AF11X should be considered in their own special low cost category... It wins in bps/$ and other figures, but if you divide licensed band 11, 18 and 23 GHz radios (FCC band plan) into generally two categories: a) Radios that take direct -48VDC power feeds and have SFP ports b) Radios that do not take direct -48VDC and/or do not have an SFP port There's an emerging divide between the two categories, where you have things like the 1024QAM radios from traditional FDD manufacturers in category B, and things like the B11 and AF11X in category A. Category A will probably be a huge growth market for small WISPs that have no reasonable expectation of affording a $14,000 licensed link any time soon. On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 8:24 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: > Well, comparing bits/mhz/$, I really don't think anything else comes close > to the AF11... the B11 might beat it on bits/$ (it's close anyway, and it > has the advantage of more overall capacity... and SFP), and plenty of other > radios can beat it on bits/mhz, but comparing all three the AF11 is a > pretty clear winner. > > So what it really comes down to, is if it can handle enough bandwidth for > a given link in the available spectrum. > > On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: > >> I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… >> >> I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Reynolds < >> j...@kyneticwifi.com> >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with the >> hitless ARQ modulation change support. >> >> Basically, it's a trade-off. >> >> >> >> *Gino Villarini* >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: >> >>> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but >>> they get worse throughput. *sigh* >>> >>> >>> >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> -------------- >>> *From: *"Tim Hardy" >>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. >>> >>> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 >>> -- >>> *From:* Af on behalf of George Skorup < >>> geo...@cbcast.com> >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? >>> >>> On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> >>> According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, >>> 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s >>> Trango/Exalt/SAF list. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On >>> Behalf Of *Chris Gustaf >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> >>> >>> Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables >>> besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM >>> there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 >>> Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). >>>
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Well, I didn’t want to use this: My college roommate used to say “Give that man a fish” but I don’t think it was a Biblical reference, more like a variation on “Give that seal a fish”. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:04 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience To be fair... I am not sure if that would be a good idea... Considering Bill Clinton found a creative use for the cigar ! Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> _ From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 2:16:28 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Give that man a cigar. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:06 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience How about we just call him a self-promoting huckster. Hucksters are, in a way, business men, but not in a way that would insult real business men. bp On 1/14/2017 10:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: That’s an insult to businessmen. I suppose you consider the people who throw sticks of dynamite in the water fishermen? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:18 AM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of the land.. and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting their product What gives . Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of fact they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all "Make Broadband Great Again" Would that help you in getting off their case ? :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> _ From: "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Price Throughput System Margin Latency Build Quality Management Vendor Support It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> __
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
To be fair... I am not sure if that would be a good idea... Considering Bill Clinton found a creative use for the cigar ! Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Ken Hohhof" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 2:16:28 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > Give that man a cigar. > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:06 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > How about we just call him a self-promoting huckster. Hucksters are, in a way, > business men, but not in a way that would insult real business men. > bp > > On 1/14/2017 10:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> That’s an insult to businessmen. >> I suppose you consider the people who throw sticks of dynamite in the water >> fishermen? >> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz >> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:18 AM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of >> the >> land.. >> and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting >> their >> product >> What gives . >> Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of >> fact >> they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those >> radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all >> "Make Broadband Great Again" >> Would that help you in getting off their case ? >> :) >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >>> From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong >>> with >>> building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to >>> be. >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> The Brothers WISP >>> From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> Price >>> Throughput >>> System Margin >>> Latency >>> Build Quality >>> Management >>> Vendor Support >>> It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. >>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett >>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they >>> get >>> worse throughput. *sigh* >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> The Brothers WISP >>> From: "Tim Hardy" < tha...@comsearch.com > >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. >>> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 >>> From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of George Skorup < >>> geo...@cbcast.com >>> > >>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? >>> On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>>> According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, >>>> 347M at >>>> 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s >>>> Trango/Exalt/SAF list. >>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf >>>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Subject: Re:
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
We've never had a PTP820 quit. But if it did, I would likely be 'heading out' Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Jan 14, 2017, at 2:12 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > > ...far as having any employee grab replacement.. > > h... what are they grabbing and from where ? > > > LOL! > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > > From: "Jon Langeler" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 2:04:51 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > It's easy to use. Way better than PTP820 as far as having any employee grab > replacement. Single radio covers the whole network...is huge. > > Jon Langeler > Michwave Technologies, Inc. > > > On Jan 14, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > User interface was always a big deal to me. More important than the money. > To me is the deciding factor as most of the gigs gear pompous out very > similar bs/hz/$. The UI and SIMPLE are big factors in being able to restore > lossy service and preventing recurring outages. > > What kind of UI does the AF11 have? I have always thought that ubnt was heavy > on pretty but light on real and helpful details. > >> On Jan 14, 2017 10:36 AM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >> Which cannot be determined without taking system margin into account. >> >> >> >> Cost must also take into account antennas, licensing, tower rent, and >> scarcity of spectrum. So if one system needs larger antennas, those cost >> money, and may increase tower rent. >> >> >> >> It’s too easy to focus on just radio cost and max throughput. You are on >> the right track with your last line. Can it do the job at hand. But you >> need to look at more than just the max throughput on the spec sheet to >> determine that. >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard >> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:25 AM >> To: af >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> Well, comparing bits/mhz/$, I really don't think anything else comes close >> to the AF11... the B11 might beat it on bits/$ (it's close anyway, and it >> has the advantage of more overall capacity... and SFP), and plenty of other >> radios can beat it on bits/mhz, but comparing all three the AF11 is a pretty >> clear winner. >> >> So what it really comes down to, is if it can handle enough bandwidth for a >> given link in the available spectrum. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: >> >> I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… >> >> >> >> I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios >> >> >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Reynolds >> >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with the >> hitless ARQ modulation change support. >> >> >> >> Basically, it's a trade-off. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gino Villarini >> >> President >> >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> >> >> On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: >> >> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they >> get worse throughput. *sigh* >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> >> >> >> From: "Tim Hardy" >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. >> >> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 >> >> From: Af on behalf of George Skorup >> >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> Which I don't understand
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
"'Some times a cigar is just a cigar.' Yeah? Well sometimes it's a big..." - George Carlin - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ken Hohhof" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:16:27 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Give that man a cigar. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:06 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience How about we just call him a self-promoting huckster. Hucksters are, in a way, business men, but not in a way that would insult real business men. bp On 1/14/2017 10:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: That’s an insult to businessmen. I suppose you consider the people who throw sticks of dynamite in the water fishermen? From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:18 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of the land.. and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting their product What gives . Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of fact they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all "Make Broadband Great Again" Would that help you in getting off their case ? :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Price Throughput System Margin Latency Build Quality Management Vendor Support It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Tim Hardy" < tha...@comsearch.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough)
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Give that man a cigar. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:06 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience How about we just call him a self-promoting huckster. Hucksters are, in a way, business men, but not in a way that would insult real business men. bp On 1/14/2017 10:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: That’s an insult to businessmen. I suppose you consider the people who throw sticks of dynamite in the water fishermen? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:18 AM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of the land.. and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting their product What gives . Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of fact they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all "Make Broadband Great Again" Would that help you in getting off their case ? :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> _ From: "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Price Throughput System Margin Latency Build Quality Management Vendor Support It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:tha...@comsearch.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 _ From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > on behalf of George Skorup mailto:geo...@cbcast.com> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmu
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
... far as having any employee grab replacement.. h... what are they grabbing and from where ? LOL! Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Jon Langeler" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 2:04:51 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > It's easy to use. Way better than PTP820 as far as having any employee grab > replacement. Single radio covers the whole network...is huge. > Jon Langeler > Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Jan 14, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > wrote: >> User interface was always a big deal to me. More important than the money. >> To me >> is the deciding factor as most of the gigs gear pompous out very similar >> bs/hz/$. The UI and SIMPLE are big factors in being able to restore lossy >> service and preventing recurring outages. >> What kind of UI does the AF11 have? I have always thought that ubnt was >> heavy on >> pretty but light on real and helpful details. >> On Jan 14, 2017 10:36 AM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: >>> Which cannot be determined without taking system margin into account. >>> Cost must also take into account antennas, licensing, tower rent, and >>> scarcity >>> of spectrum. So if one system needs larger antennas, those cost money, and >>> may >>> increase tower rent. >>> It’s too easy to focus on just radio cost and max throughput. You are on the >>> right track with your last line. Can it do the job at hand. But you need to >>> look at more than just the max throughput on the spec sheet to determine >>> that. >>> From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard >>> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:25 AM >>> To: af < af@afmug.com > >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> Well, comparing bits/mhz/$, I really don't think anything else comes close >>> to >>> the AF11... the B11 might beat it on bits/$ (it's close anyway, and it has >>> the >>> advantage of more overall capacity... and SFP), and plenty of other radios >>> can >>> beat it on bits/mhz, but comparing all three the AF11 is a pretty clear >>> winner. >>> So what it really comes down to, is if it can handle enough bandwidth for a >>> given link in the available spectrum. >>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > >>> wrote: >>>> I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… >>>> I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios >>>> From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Reynolds < >>>> j...@kyneticwifi.com > >>>> Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > >>>> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM >>>> To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>>> There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with the >>>> hitless >>>> ARQ modulation change support. >>>> Basically, it's a trade-off. >>>> Gino Villarini >>>> President >>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>>> >>>> On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: >>>>> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but >>>>> they get >>>>> worse throughput. *sigh* >>>>> - >>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>>>> The Brothers WISP >>>>> From: "Tim Hardy" < tha...@comsearch.com > >>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>>>> Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. >>>>> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 >>>>> From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of George Skorup < >>>>> geo...@cbcast.com >>>>> > >>>>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM >>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
It's easy to use. Way better than PTP820 as far as having any employee grab replacement. Single radio covers the whole network...is huge. Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Jan 14, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote: > > User interface was always a big deal to me. More important than the money. > To me is the deciding factor as most of the gigs gear pompous out very > similar bs/hz/$. The UI and SIMPLE are big factors in being able to restore > lossy service and preventing recurring outages. > > What kind of UI does the AF11 have? I have always thought that ubnt was heavy > on pretty but light on real and helpful details. > >> On Jan 14, 2017 10:36 AM, "Ken Hohhof" wrote: >> Which cannot be determined without taking system margin into account. >> >> >> >> Cost must also take into account antennas, licensing, tower rent, and >> scarcity of spectrum. So if one system needs larger antennas, those cost >> money, and may increase tower rent. >> >> >> >> It’s too easy to focus on just radio cost and max throughput. You are on >> the right track with your last line. Can it do the job at hand. But you >> need to look at more than just the max throughput on the spec sheet to >> determine that. >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard >> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:25 AM >> To: af >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> Well, comparing bits/mhz/$, I really don't think anything else comes close >> to the AF11... the B11 might beat it on bits/$ (it's close anyway, and it >> has the advantage of more overall capacity... and SFP), and plenty of other >> radios can beat it on bits/mhz, but comparing all three the AF11 is a pretty >> clear winner. >> >> So what it really comes down to, is if it can handle enough bandwidth for a >> given link in the available spectrum. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: >> >> I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… >> >> >> >> I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios >> >> >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Reynolds >> >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with the >> hitless ARQ modulation change support. >> >> >> >> Basically, it's a trade-off. >> >> >> >> >> >> Gino Villarini >> >> President >> >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> >> >> On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: >> >> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they >> get worse throughput. *sigh* >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> >> The Brothers WISP >> >> >> >> >> From: "Tim Hardy" >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. >> >> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 >> >> From: Af on behalf of George Skorup >> >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? >> >> On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> >> According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M >> at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s >> Trango/Exalt/SAF list. >> >> >> >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables >> besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM >> there are 10 bits per symbol so th
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
That’s an insult to businessmen. I suppose you consider the people who throw sticks of dynamite in the water fishermen? From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:18 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of the land.. and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting their product What gives . Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of fact they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all "Make Broadband Great Again" Would that help you in getting off their case ? :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> _ From: "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Price Throughput System Margin Latency Build Quality Management Vendor Support It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:tha...@comsearch.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 _ From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > on behalf of George Skorup mailto:geo...@cbcast.com> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduct
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
ROFL !. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Chuck McCown" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:24:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > When they say it, it must be in fractured sentences. > Start a sentence, halt and insert two semi-germane but not sequitur commentary > phrases, return to a related version of the initial sentence and launch into a > new thought (usually containing an insult) before finishing. > http://madlibs.shpg.org/trump?ref=webdesignernews.com > And I thought Bush’s grammar was bad. > From: Faisal Imtiaz > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:17 AM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of > the > land.. > and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting > their > product > What gives . > Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of > fact > they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those > radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all > "Make Broadband Great Again" > Would that help you in getting off their case ? > :) > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >> From: "Mike Hammett" >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong >> with >> building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to >> be. >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> The Brothers WISP >> From: "Ken Hohhof" >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> Price >> Throughput >> System Margin >> Latency >> Build Quality >> Management >> Vendor Support >> It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. >> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they >> get >> worse throughput. *sigh* >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> The Brothers WISP >> From: "Tim Hardy" < tha...@comsearch.com > >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. >> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 >> From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of George Skorup < >> geo...@cbcast.com >> > >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? >> On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M >>> at >>> 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s >>> Trango/Exalt/SAF list. >>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf >>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables >>> besides >>> the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 >>> bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 >>> MHz >>> channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). >>> To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the >>> symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max >>> of >>> 350 Mbps over the air. >>> After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically >>> around >>> 85-90
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
When they say it, it must be in fractured sentences. Start a sentence, halt and insert two semi-germane but not sequitur commentary phrases, return to a related version of the initial sentence and launch into a new thought (usually containing an insult) before finishing. http://madlibs.shpg.org/trump?ref=webdesignernews.com And I thought Bush’s grammar was bad. From: Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:17 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of the land.. and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting their product What gives . Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of fact they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all "Make Broadband Great Again" Would that help you in getting off their case ? :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: "Mike Hammett" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP -- From: "Ken Hohhof" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Price Throughput System Margin Latency Build Quality Management Vendor Support It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP -- From: "Tim Hardy" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 -- From: Af on behalf of George Skorup Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The o
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
You just voted to put a self promoting business man to the highest office of the land.. and you are literally 'harping' on another business who is self promoting their product What gives . Maybe UBNT should be saying... "The AF11x is the best radio, As a matter of fact they only make the greatest Radios, and only they know how to make those radios.. Those are all phenomenal products, very successful " ... Let's all "Make Broadband Great Again" Would that help you in getting off their case ? :) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Mike Hammett" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:52:02 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong > with > building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > Midwest Internet Exchange > The Brothers WISP > From: "Ken Hohhof" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > Price > Throughput > System Margin > Latency > Build Quality > Management > Vendor Support > It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get > worse throughput. *sigh* > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > Midwest Internet Exchange > The Brothers WISP > From: "Tim Hardy" < tha...@comsearch.com > > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. > https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 > From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of George Skorup < > geo...@cbcast.com > > > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? > On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M >> at >> 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s >> Trango/Exalt/SAF list. >> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides >> the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 >> bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz >> channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). >> To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the >> symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of >> 350 Mbps over the air. >> After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically >> around >> 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of >> around >> 300 to 315 Mbps. >> Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets >> adds >> about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango >> and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. >> Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if >> the >> filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give >> them >> about 250 Mbps for large packets. >> Hope that helps! >> Chris Gustaf >> Trango Systems >> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > >> wrote: >>> What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the >>> data >>> sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've >>> looked at are typically around 300Mbps... >>> Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least >>> a few >>> of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a >>> selling point, when it can&#
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Well, comparing bits/mhz/$, I really don't think anything else comes close to the AF11... the B11 might beat it on bits/$ (it's close anyway, and it has the advantage of more overall capacity... and SFP), and plenty of other radios can beat it on bits/mhz, but comparing all three the AF11 is a pretty clear winner. So what it really comes down to, is if it can handle enough bandwidth for a given link in the available spectrum. On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: > I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… > > I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios > > From: Af on behalf of Josh Reynolds < > j...@kyneticwifi.com> > Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" > Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM > To: "af@afmug.com" > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with the > hitless ARQ modulation change support. > > Basically, it's a trade-off. > > > > *Gino Villarini* > President > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 > > On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: > >> I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but >> they get worse throughput. *sigh* >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> -- >> *From: *"Tim Hardy" >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. >> >> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 >> -- >> *From:* Af on behalf of George Skorup < >> geo...@cbcast.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? >> >> On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> >> According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, >> 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s >> Trango/Exalt/SAF list. >> >> >> >> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On >> Behalf Of *Chris Gustaf >> *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> >> >> Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables >> besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM >> there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 >> Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). >> >> >> >> To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of >> the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a >> max of 350 Mbps over the air. >> >> >> >> After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically >> around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net >> throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. >> >> >> >> Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large >> packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which >> is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest >> technology. >> >> >> >> Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate >> if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which >> would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. >> >> >> >> Hope that helps! >> >> >> >> Chris Gustaf >> >> Trango Systems >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM,
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Bahaha nice Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Jan 14, 2017, at 9:44 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote: > >> On 1/14/17 5:52 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing >> wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all >> you claim to be. > > > Yeah but ARQ is errorless because FEC has "error" in the name. > > ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
On 1/14/17 5:52 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. Yeah but ARQ is errorless because FEC has "error" in the name. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Sure, but don't claim you're better when you're not. There's nothing wrong with building a reasonable product for a great price if that's all you claim to be. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ken Hohhof" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:44:49 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Price Throughput System Margin Latency Build Quality Management Vendor Support It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Tim Hardy" < tha...@comsearch.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish. One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote: FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM Subject
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
I’ll guess that is the way to get them produced at way lower price… I always use the bits/mhz/$ when comparing radios From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 12:56 AM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with the hitless ARQ modulation change support. Basically, it's a trade-off. Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote: I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> [http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png] <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ____________ From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:tha...@comsearch.com>> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of George Skorup mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote: I think this whole thread can be summed up that there'
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Cool ! Thanks for the great explanation in simple language ! And what you have said makes a lot of sense in AF11x showing to be a 500meg Duplex on a 40mhz (mimo / two polarities) channel. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Chris Gustaf" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:19:49 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides > the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 > bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz > channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). > To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the > symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of > 350 Mbps over the air. > After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically > around > 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of > around > 300 to 315 Mbps. > Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets > adds > about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango > and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. > Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if > the > filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give > them > about 250 Mbps for large packets. > Hope that helps! > Chris Gustaf > Trango Systems > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: >> What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the >> data >> sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've >> looked at are typically around 300Mbps... >> Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a >> few >> of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a >> selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios >> do at 256qam. >> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: >>> I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to >>> get >>> around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel >>> size >>> and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to >>> really >>> understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing >>> department is >>> divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they >>> publish. >>> One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be >>> nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. >>> Multiply >>> as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or >>> 112 MHz. >>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > >>> wrote: >>>> FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected >>>> throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. >>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>>> Miami, FL 33155 >>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >>>>> From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > >>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>>>> But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at >>>>> 56Mhz/1024QAM >>>>> with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my >>>>> PTP-800 >>>>> link which can do 228Mbps. Right? >>>>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: >>>>>> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost >>>>>> insignificant >>>>>> increase in throughput. >>>>>> Their claim is 1.2 gb+. >>>>>> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. >>>>>> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. >>>>&
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
There's an ongoing discussion about this. It seems it has to do with the hitless ARQ modulation change support. Basically, it's a trade-off. On Jan 13, 2017 10:14 PM, "Mike Hammett" wrote: > I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but > they get worse throughput. *sigh* > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------ > *From: *"Tim Hardy" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. > > https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 > ------ > *From:* Af on behalf of George Skorup < > geo...@cbcast.com> > *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? > > On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, > 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s > Trango/Exalt/SAF list. > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Chris Gustaf > *Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > > > Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables > besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM > there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 > Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). > > > > To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the > symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max > of 350 Mbps over the air. > > > > After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically > around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net > throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. > > > > Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large > packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which > is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest > technology. > > > > Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate > if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which > would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. > > > > Hope that helps! > > > > Chris Gustaf > > Trango Systems > > > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard > wrote: > > What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to > the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The > other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... > > Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least > a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use > 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam > as other radios do at 256qam. > > > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote: > > I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to > get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given > channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people > who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt > marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter > how many slick PDFs they publish. > > One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be > nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. > Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as > 60, 80 or 112 MHz. > > > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz > wrote: > > FYI... on a &qu
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Price Throughput System Margin Latency Build Quality Management Vendor Support It’s about the tradeoffs, and what you care about most. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:15 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Tim Hardy" mailto:tha...@comsearch.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 _ From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> > on behalf of George Skorup mailto:geo...@cbcast.com> > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > wrote: I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish. One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> > wrote: FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
I love how Gary says they use so much better, newer technology... but they get worse throughput. *sigh* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Tim Hardy" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 From: Af on behalf of George Skorup Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish. One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote: FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. --
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Post 6 here discusses the use of ARQ rather than FEC. https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF11x-Capacity/td-p/1737631 From: Af on behalf of George Skorup Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 6:41:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC? On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote: I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish. One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote: FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> From: "Josh Baird" mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> ____ From: "Josh Baird" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12,
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Which I don't understand. Sounds like strong FEC?
On 1/13/2017 5:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM,
347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to
George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chris Gustaf
*Sent:* Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables
besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024
QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to
get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate).
To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of
the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering,
giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air.
After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is
typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving
a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps.
Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large
packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps,
which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with
the newest technology.
Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol
rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression,
which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets.
Hope that helps!
Chris Gustaf
Trango Systems
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity
according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity
channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around
300Mbps...
Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up
at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny
that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much
throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke
mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no
magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding
efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From
the technical perspective of people who have to really
understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt
marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200
Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish.
One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is
going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many
different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual
polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz
mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>>
wrote:
FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo)
the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex.
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option
2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
<mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net>
*From: *"Josh Baird" mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities
(running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should
be able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800
link which can do 228Mbps. Right?
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at
an almost insignificant increase in throughput.
Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
Cut that in half as they're advertising the
aggregate, so 600 mb+.
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more
than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly
exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300
is r
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
According to Link Planner, PTP820S (IP20S) gets around 243M at 256QAM, 347M at 2048QAM (350M with header compression). So add that to George’s Trango/Exalt/SAF list. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Gustaf Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > wrote: I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish. One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net> > wrote: FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net <mailto:supp...@snappytelecom.net> _ From: "Josh Baird" mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP _ From: "Josh Baird" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much ca
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Real usable capacity at Layer 2 Ethernet depends on several variables besides the modulation level and the regulatory bandwidth. For 1024 QAM there are 10 bits per symbol so theoretically one would expect to get 400 Mbps in a 40 MHz channel (10 bits x 40 MHz symbol rate). To actually make a radio that meets FCC spectrum masks, a reduction of the symbol rate down to around 35 MHz is required plus filtering, giving a max of 350 Mbps over the air. After that, Forward Error Correction (FEC) is required which is typically around 85-90 % for most microwave radios using LDPC, giving a net throughput of around 300 to 315 Mbps. Add header compression at layer 2 which in the worst case for large packets adds about 2.5 % improvement and you get to around 325 Mbps, which is what Trango and others get on a single 40 MHz channel with the newest technology. Ubiquiti maybe using a lower FEC rate like 75-80% (or a lower symbol rate if the filtering is not steep enough) and no header compression, which would give them about 250 Mbps for large packets. Hope that helps! Chris Gustaf Trango Systems On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: > What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to > the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The > other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... > > Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least > a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use > 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam > as other radios do at 256qam. > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote: > >> I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to >> get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given >> channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people >> who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt >> marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter >> how many slick PDFs they publish. >> >> One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to >> be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. >> Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as >> 60, 80 or 112 MHz. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz >> wrote: >> >>> FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected >>> throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. >>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>> Miami, FL 33155 >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518> >>> >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: >>> supp...@snappytelecom.net >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *From: *"Josh Baird" >>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM >>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at >>> 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he >>> capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>>> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost >>>> insignificant increase in throughput. >>>> >>>> Their claim is 1.2 gb+. >>>> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. >>>> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. >>>> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single >>>> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that >>>> 300 is really only 250. >>>> >>>> >>>> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both >>>> polarities. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/&g
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Yes, so then multiply by two for dual polarity if it can be licensed for a figure of 500 Mbps FDX per 40 MHz H & V PTP link. If 80 MHz, multiply by two again, resulting in a figure of 1 Gbps FDX. Which my back of the napkin calculation says is actually a conservative, pessimistic estimation for the FDX data rate you should see in a 1024QAM, 80 MHz dual polarity link. An Exalt ExtremeAir 18GHz radio that is 80 MHz wide, dual polarities, 256QAM 5/6 code rate is exactly 1 Gbps FDX and can be treated like a 1000BaseLX fiber patch cable between two routers. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:58 PM, George Skorup wrote: > Trango, SAF, Exalt, etc. Typically 250Mbps FDX @ 40MHz/256QAM. And 360Mbps > FDX @ 56MHz/256QAM. Give or take a bit for things like strong or weak FEC, > ACM enabled, etc. > > On 1/13/2017 4:39 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: > > What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to > the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The > other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... > > Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least > a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use > 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam > as other radios do at 256qam. > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke > wrote: > >> I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to >> get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given >> channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people >> who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt >> marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter >> how many slick PDFs they publish. >> >> One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to >> be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. >> Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as >> 60, 80 or 112 MHz. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz >> wrote: >> >>> FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected >>> throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. >>> >>> Faisal Imtiaz >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>> Miami, FL 33155 >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <%28305%29%20663-5518> >>> >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <%28305%29%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: >>> supp...@snappytelecom.net >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *From: *"Josh Baird" >>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM >>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at >>> 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he >>> capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>>> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost >>>> insignificant increase in throughput. >>>> >>>> Their claim is 1.2 gb+. >>>> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. >>>> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. >>>> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single >>>> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that >>>> 300 is really only 250. >>>> >>>> >>>> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both >>>> polarities. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Yeah, but that's 256QAM matching or besting a 1024QAM. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "George Skorup" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 4:58:30 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Trango, SAF, Exalt, etc. Typically 250Mbps FDX @ 40MHz/256QAM. And 360Mbps FDX @ 56MHz/256QAM. Give or take a bit for things like strong or weak FEC, ACM enabled, etc. On 1/13/2017 4:39 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish. One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote: FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, th
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Trango, SAF, Exalt, etc. Typically 250Mbps FDX @ 40MHz/256QAM. And
360Mbps FDX @ 56MHz/256QAM. Give or take a bit for things like strong or
weak FEC, ACM enabled, etc.
On 1/13/2017 4:39 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according
to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam?
The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps...
Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at
least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that
they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much
throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical
way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency
for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical
perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX
capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is
divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick
PDFs they publish.
One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is
going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different
manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for
larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz
mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>> wrote:
FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the
expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex.
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2
or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
*From: *"Josh Baird" mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities
(running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be
able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800 link
which can do 228Mbps. Right?
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an
almost insignificant increase in throughput.
Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate,
so 600 mb+.
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than
500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I
just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really
only 250.
Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger
channels in both polarities.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
*From: *"Josh Baird" mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz
(ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The
AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right?
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini
mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to
N connector ada
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
What other radios will only do 250Mbps (502.4Mbps capacity according to the data sheet...) on one 40mhz single polarity channel at 256qam? The other's I've looked at are typically around 300Mbps... Not that I'm saying the AF11 is a bad radio, I plan on putting up at least a few of them this year... but I find it a little funny that they use 1024qam as a selling point, when it can't do as much throughput at 1024qam as other radios do at 256qam. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote: > I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to > get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given > channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people > who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt > marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter > how many slick PDFs they publish. > > One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be > nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. > Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as > 60, 80 or 112 MHz. > > > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz > wrote: > >> FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected >> throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> Snappy Internet & Telecom >> 7266 SW 48 Street >> Miami, FL 33155 >> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <(305)%20663-5518> >> >> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: >> supp...@snappytelecom.net >> >> -- >> >> *From: *"Josh Baird" >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM >> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at >> 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he >> capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? >> >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> >>> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost >>> insignificant increase in throughput. >>> >>> Their claim is 1.2 gb+. >>> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. >>> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. >>> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single >>> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that >>> 300 is really only 250. >>> >>> >>> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both >>> polarities. >>> >>> >>> >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> -- >>> *From: *"Josh Baird" >>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only >>> do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than >>> that, right? >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini >>> wrote: >>> >>>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >>>> (AF11x is N) >>>> >>>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >>>> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >>>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >>>> >>>> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < >>>> joshba...@gma
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
I think this whole thread can be summed up that there's no magical way to get around the shannon limit and bps/Hz coding efficiency for a given channel size and modulation... From the technical perspective of people who have to really understand the FDX capacity of a new PTP link, the ubnt marketing department is divorced from reality, it's not 1200 Mbps no matter how many slick PDFs they publish. One 40 MHz channel single polarity at 1024QAM 5/6 code rate is going to be nearly the same efficiency bps/Hz from many different manufacturers. Multiply as necessary for dual polarity or for larger channel sizes such as 60, 80 or 112 MHz. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected > throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > > -- > > *From: *"Josh Baird" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at > 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he > capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > >> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost >> insignificant increase in throughput. >> >> Their claim is 1.2 gb+. >> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. >> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. >> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single >> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that >> 300 is really only 250. >> >> >> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both >> polarities. >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> -- >> *From: *"Josh Baird" >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do >> 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, >> right? >> >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini >> wrote: >> >>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >>> (AF11x is N) >>> >>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >>> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >>> >>> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < >>> joshba...@gmail.com> >>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >>> To: "af@afmug.com" >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> Good news - thanks for sharing. >>> >>> Somewhat un-related question: >>> >>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >>> >>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3- >>> 11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 >>> >>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need >>> adapters? >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Gino Villarini* >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini >>> wrote: >>> >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
FYI... on a "single" 40mhz channel 'dual polarity' (mimo) the expected throughput on Af11x is 500meg duplex. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Josh Baird" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:30:10 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at 56Mhz/1024QAM > with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my > PTP-800 > link which can do 228Mbps. Right? > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: >> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant >> increase in throughput. >> Their claim is 1.2 gb+. >> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. >> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. >> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single >> direction >> (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is >> really >> only 250. >> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both >> polarities. >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> The Brothers WISP >> From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do >> 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, >> right? >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > >> wrote: >>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >>> (AF11x is >>> N) >>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >>> difference >>> between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic >>> license you can double your throughput with the af11x >>> From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < >>> joshba...@gmail.com >>> > >>> Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > >>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >>> To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> Good news - thanks for sharing. >>> Somewhat un-related question: >>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 >>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? >>> Josh >>> Gino Villarini >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > >>> wrote: >>>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been >>>> beta >>>> testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been >>>> rock >>>> solid. >>>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >>>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent >>>> throughtput issues, >>>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the >>>> af11x adapters to it, >>>> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some >>>> lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. >>>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and >>>> af18x >>>> Gino Villarini >>>> President >>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
If the spectrum is available, yes. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Josh Baird" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 9:30:10 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
But if I can get 80mhz channels in both polarities (running at 56Mhz/1024QAM with this radio), I should be able to at least double he capacity of my PTP-800 link which can do 228Mbps. Right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant > increase in throughput. > > Their claim is 1.2 gb+. > Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. > That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. > Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single > direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that > 300 is really only 250. > > > Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both > polarities. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > -- > *From: *"Josh Baird" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do > 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, > right? > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini > wrote: > >> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >> (AF11x is N) >> >> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < >> joshba...@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Good news - thanks for sharing. >> >> Somewhat un-related question: >> >> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >> >> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3- >> 11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 >> >> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need >> adapters? >> >> Josh >> >> >> >> *Gino Villarini* >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini >> wrote: >> >>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe >>> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit >>> has been rock solid. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >>> >>> >>> >>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some >>> intermitent throughtput issues, >>> >>> >>> >>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add >>> the af11x adapters to it, >>> >>> >>> >>> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced >>> some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went >>> away. >>> >>> >>> >>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x >>> and af18x >>> >>> >>> >>> *Gino Villarini* >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> >>> >> > >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
My guess is also OFDM overhead Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Jan 12, 2017, at 7:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Is it OFDM? Overhead? (cyclix prefix, pilot tones, etc.) > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:05 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting > hella throughput. > > As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina > with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's > 600. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > From: "Mathew Howard" > To: "af" > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running > the B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do > about double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, > since they are half duplex radios... ) > > I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF > Lumina can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do > 256QAM. > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. > I'll go with what they spec it out to. > > AF11x: 428 > B11: 390 > 820c (same as IP20c): 694 > > > The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s > for the price of an 820c link. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > From: "Mike Hammett" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > From: "Jon Langeler" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? > > Jon Langeler > Michwave Technologies, Inc. > > > On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant > increase in throughput. > > Their claim is 1.2 gb+. > Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. > That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. > Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single > direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that > 300 is really only 250. > > > Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both > polarities. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > From: "Josh Baird" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do > 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, > right? > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: > IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x > is N) > > What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity > difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you > have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x > > From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird > Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM > To: "af@afmug.com" > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Good news - thanks for sharing. > > Somewhat un-related question: > > I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: > > http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 > > Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? > > Josh > > > > Gino Villar
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
AF11x doesn't have an SFP. That's about the only thing I can say about it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jan 12, 2017 6:14 PM, "Jon Langeler" wrote: > What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? > > Jon Langeler > Michwave Technologies, Inc. > > > On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant > increase in throughput. > > Their claim is 1.2 gb+. > Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. > That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. > Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single > direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that > 300 is really only 250. > > > Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both > polarities. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > -- > *From: *"Josh Baird" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do > 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, > right? > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini > wrote: > >> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >> (AF11x is N) >> >> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < >> joshba...@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Good news - thanks for sharing. >> >> Somewhat un-related question: >> >> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >> >> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3- >> 11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 >> >> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need >> adapters? >> >> Josh >> >> >> >> *Gino Villarini* >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini >> wrote: >> >>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe >>> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit >>> has been rock solid. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >>> >>> >>> >>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some >>> intermitent throughtput issues, >>> >>> >>> >>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add >>> the af11x adapters to it, >>> >>> >>> >>> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced >>> some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went >>> away. >>> >>> >>> >>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x >>> and af18x >>> >>> >>> >>> *Gino Villarini* >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
It'd be nice to hear from UBNT, but I suspect that won't happen. They'll insist theirs is more efficient than a Lumina because it moves more bits in a given channel size, ignoring the additional polarity usage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Ken Hohhof" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:11:32 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Is it OFDM? Overhead? (cyclix prefix, pilot tones, etc.) From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:05 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting hella throughput. As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's 600. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > To: "af" < af@afmug.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running the B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do about double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, since they are half duplex radios... ) I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF Lumina can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 256QAM. On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. I'll go with what they spec it out to. AF11x: 428 B11: 390 820c (same as IP20c): 694 The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s for the price of an 820c link. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Jon Langeler" < jon-ispli...@michwave.net > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Is it OFDM? Overhead? (cyclix prefix, pilot tones, etc.) From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:05 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting hella throughput. As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's 600. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > To: "af" mailto:af@afmug.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running the B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do about double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, since they are half duplex radios... ) I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF Lumina can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 256QAM. On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote: I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. I'll go with what they spec it out to. AF11x: 428 B11: 390 820c (same as IP20c): 694 The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s for the price of an 820c link. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _ From: "Jon Langeler" mailto:jon-ispli...@michwave.net> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Soluti
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting hella throughput. As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's 600. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mathew Howard" To: "af" Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running the B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do about double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, since they are half duplex radios... ) I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF Lumina can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 256QAM. On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. I'll go with what they spec it out to. AF11x: 428 B11: 390 820c (same as IP20c): 694 The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s for the price of an 820c link. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Jon Langeler" < jon-ispli...@michwave.net > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running the B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do about double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, since they are half duplex radios... ) I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF Lumina can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 256QAM. On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can > run. I'll go with what they spec it out to. > > AF11x: 428 > B11: 390 > 820c (same as IP20c): 694 > > > The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of > B11s for the price of an 820c link. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > -- > *From: *"Mike Hammett" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > -- > *From: *"Jon Langeler" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? > > Jon Langeler > Michwave Technologies, Inc. > > > On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant > increase in throughput. > > Their claim is 1.2 gb+. > Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. > That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. > Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single > direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that > 300 is really only 250. > > > Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both > polarities. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > -- > *From: *"Josh Baird" > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do > 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, > right? > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini > wrote: > >> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >> (AF11x is N) >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. I'll go with what they spec it out to. AF11x: 428 B11: 390 820c (same as IP20c): 694 The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s for the price of an 820c link. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Jon Langeler" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Your supposed to have this stuff memorized Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Jan 12, 2017, at 6:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > > From: "Jon Langeler" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? > > Jon Langeler > Michwave Technologies, Inc. > > > On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant > increase in throughput. > > Their claim is 1.2 gb+. > Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. > That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. > Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single > direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that > 300 is really only 250. > > > Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both > polarities. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > > From: "Josh Baird" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do > 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, > right? > >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: >> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >> (AF11x is N) >> >> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Good news - thanks for sharing. >> >> Somewhat un-related question: >> >> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >> >> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 >> >> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? >> >> Josh >> >> >> >> Gino Villarini >> >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: >>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been >>> beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has >>> been rock solid. >>> >>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >>> >>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent >>> throughtput issues, >>> >>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the >>> af11x adapters to it, >>> >>> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some >>> lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. >>> >>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and >>> af18x >>> >>> >>> Gino Villarini >>> >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> >>> > > >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Jon Langeler" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > > At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant > increase in throughput. > > Their claim is 1.2 gb+. > Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. > That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. > Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single > direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that > 300 is really only 250. > > > Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both > polarities. > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > The Brothers WISP > > > > > From: "Josh Baird" > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do > 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, > right? > >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: >> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >> (AF11x is N) >> >> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Good news - thanks for sharing. >> >> Somewhat un-related question: >> >> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >> >> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 >> >> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? >> >> Josh >> >> >> >> Gino Villarini >> >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: >>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been >>> beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has >>> been rock solid. >>> >>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >>> >>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent >>> throughtput issues, >>> >>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the >>> af11x adapters to it, >>> >>> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some >>> lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. >>> >>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and >>> af18x >>> >>> >>> Gino Villarini >>> >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> >>> > >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant increase in throughput. Their claim is 1.2 gb+. Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really only 250. Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both polarities. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Josh Baird" To: af@afmug.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Yep - for sure. What kind of dishes are you using? Distance? Throughput? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: > Yes, but 80 mhz is not always available, I would do a preliminary > investigation before moving on > > From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < > joshba...@gmail.com> > Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 3:20 PM > To: "af@afmug.com" > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Need to adjust the license anyways if we are changing out equipment. > > > > *Gino Villarini* > President > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: > >> Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz >> channel >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < >> joshba...@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do >> 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, >> right? >> >> >> >> *Gino Villarini* >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini >> wrote: >> >>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >>> (AF11x is N) >>> >>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >>> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >>> >>> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < >>> joshba...@gmail.com> >>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >>> To: "af@afmug.com" >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >>> >>> Good news - thanks for sharing. >>> >>> Somewhat un-related question: >>> >>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >>> >>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR >>> 1&p=237127&sc=0 >>> >>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need >>> adapters? >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> >>> >>> *Gino Villarini* >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe >>>> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit >>>> has been rock solid. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some >>>> intermitent throughtput issues, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add >>>> the af11x adapters to it, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced >>>> some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went >>>> away. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x >>>> and af18x >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Gino Villarini* >>>> President >>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Yes, but 80 mhz is not always available, I would do a preliminary investigation before moving on From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 3:20 PM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Need to adjust the license anyways if we are changing out equipment. Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz channel From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Need to adjust the license anyways if we are changing out equipment. On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: > Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz > channel > > From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < > joshba...@gmail.com> > Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM > To: "af@afmug.com" > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do > 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, > right? > > > > *Gino Villarini* > President > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini > wrote: > >> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters >> (AF11x is N) >> >> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity >> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you >> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x >> >> From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < >> joshba...@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" >> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM >> To: "af@afmug.com" >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience >> >> Good news - thanks for sharing. >> >> Somewhat un-related question: >> >> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: >> >> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W- >> RR1&p=237127&sc=0 >> >> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need >> adapters? >> >> Josh >> >> >> >> *Gino Villarini* >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini >> wrote: >> >>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe >>> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit >>> has been rock solid. >>> >>> >>> >>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >>> >>> >>> >>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some >>> intermitent throughtput issues, >>> >>> >>> >>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add >>> the af11x adapters to it, >>> >>> >>> >>> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced >>> some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went >>> away. >>> >>> >>> >>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x >>> and af18x >>> >>> >>> >>> *Gino Villarini* >>> President >>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >>> >>> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz channel From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini wrote: > IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters > (AF11x is N) > > What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity > difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you > have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x > > From: Af on behalf of Josh Baird < > joshba...@gmail.com> > Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM > To: "af@afmug.com" > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience > > Good news - thanks for sharing. > > Somewhat un-related question: > > I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: > > http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3- > 11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 > > Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need > adapters? > > Josh > > > > *Gino Villarini* > President > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: > >> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe >> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit >> has been rock solid. >> >> >> >> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! >> >> >> >> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent >> throughtput issues, >> >> >> >> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add >> the af11x adapters to it, >> >> >> >> The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some >> lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. >> >> >> >> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x >> and af18x >> >> >> >> *Gino Villarini* >> President >> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 >> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x is N) What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>> on behalf of Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png] On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com>> wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x Gino Villarini President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 [cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
and AF23X bp On 1/12/2017 5:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock solid. We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent throughtput issues, The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the af11x adapters to it, The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and af18x *//* */Gino Villarini/* President Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
Good news - thanks for sharing. Somewhat un-related question: I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1&p=237127&sc=0 Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? Josh On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: > Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been > beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has > been rock solid. > > > > We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! > > > > This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent > throughtput issues, > > > > The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add > the af11x adapters to it, > > > > The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some > lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. > > > > For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x > and af18x > > > > *Gino Villarini* > President > Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 > >
