Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is
having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We
are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
brings it back to life.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc
 wrote:

> Hello Cambium,
>
>
>
> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
> the spectrum.
>
> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
> available to fix this short term.
>
> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
> it.
>
>
>
> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of
> the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>
>
>
> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
> public.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Luthman]

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc
 wrote:

> Hello Cambium,
>
>
>
> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
> the spectrum.
>
> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
> available to fix this short term.
>
> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
> it.
>
>
>
> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of
> the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>
>
>
> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
> public.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Brian Sullivan]

I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
Resets.

Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/

On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:


Hello Cambium,

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana
WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing
with ePMPs. It was very interesting to learn we are experience
identical problems across the spectrum.

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
available to fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of
dealing with it.

Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has
been suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement
program immediately.

If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product
performance is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like
for this to be made public.

Thank you,

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net* 

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Chuck McCown]

Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!

(That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first week 
of operation).

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is having 
issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We are going 
to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that brings it back to 
life.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

  Hello Cambium,



  At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was 
very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the 
spectrum. 

  We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to 
fix this short term.

  The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with it.  



  Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of 
the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer 
a full recall and replacement program immediately.



  If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 



  Thank you,



  Tyson Burris, President 
  Internet Communications Inc. 
  739 Commerce Dr. 
  Franklin, IN 46131 

  317-738-0320 Daytime # 
  317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
  Online: www.surfici.net 





  What can ICI do for you? 


  Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
  addressee shown. It contains information that is 
  confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
  dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
  unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
  prohibited. 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Brian Sullivan]

*is NOT

On 1/20/2016 12:20 PM, Brian Sullivan wrote:
I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from 
Watchdog Resets.

Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/

On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc  wrote:


Hello Cambium,

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana
WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing
with ePMPs.  It was very interesting to learn we are experience
identical problems across the spectrum.

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you
have identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has
been made available to fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of
dealing with it.

Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has
been suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement
program immediately.

If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product
performance is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would
like for this to be made public.

Thank you,

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net* 

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some* issues.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>
> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first
> week of operation).
>
> *From:* Josh Baird 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is
> having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We
> are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
> brings it back to life.
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
>> Hello Cambium,
>>
>>
>>
>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>> the spectrum.
>>
>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>> available to fix this short term.
>>
>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>> public.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Chuck McCown]

Just teasing...

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some* issues.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!

  (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first 
week of operation).

  From: Josh Baird 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

  Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is 
having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We are 
going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that brings it 
back to life.

  On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Hello Cambium,



At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was 
very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the 
spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to 
fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with 
it.  



Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of 
the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer 
a full recall and replacement program immediately.



If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 



Thank you,



Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 





What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Mathew Howard]

It doesn't make any sense to me that it would... I certainly haven't seen
any difference in performance, and every AP that I've put the RC firmware
on has been perfectly stable.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
>> Hello Cambium,
>>
>>
>>
>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>> the spectrum.
>>
>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>> available to fix this short term.
>>
>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>> public.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

Did Cambium say they are making the memory faster?  I assumed the firmware fix 
adjusted something like wait states to accommodate the memory being faster or 
slower when cold.  I know I’m slower when cold, I’m not sure about DRAM, maybe 
it’s the opposite.

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:49 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

It doesn't make any sense to me that it would... I certainly haven't seen any 
difference in performance, and every AP that I've put the RC firmware on has 
been perfectly stable.


On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Hello Cambium,



At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was 
very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the 
spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to 
fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with 
it.  



Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of 
the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer 
a full recall and replacement program immediately.



If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 



Thank you,



Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 





What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Mathew Howard]

All I heard was that they made timing adjustments... I didn't ask for
details.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Did Cambium say they are making the memory faster?  I assumed the firmware
> fix adjusted something like wait states to accommodate the memory being
> faster or slower when cold.  I know I’m slower when cold, I’m not sure
> about DRAM, maybe it’s the opposite.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:49 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
> It doesn't make any sense to me that it would... I certainly haven't seen
> any difference in performance, and every AP that I've put the RC firmware
> on has been perfectly stable.
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>> Inc  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>>> the spectrum.
>>>
>>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>>> available to fix this short term.
>>>
>>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>>> public.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: ICI]
>>>
>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>> *prohibited.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Mark Radabaugh]

Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to with 450?

So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?

Mark

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan  wrote:
> 
> I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
> Resets.  
> Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/
> 
> On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>> Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?
>> 
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
>> < t...@franklinisp.net 
>> > wrote:
>> Hello Cambium,
>> 
>>  
>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It 
>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across 
>> the spectrum.
>> 
>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available 
>> to fix this short term.
>> 
>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with it. 
>> 
>>  
>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of 
>> the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would 
>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>> 
>>  
>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made 
>> public. 
>> 
>>  
>> Thank you,
>> 
>>  
>> Tyson Burris, President 
>> Internet Communications Inc. 
>> 739 Commerce Dr. 
>> Franklin, IN 46131 
>>   
>> 317-738-0320  Daytime # 
>> 317-412-1540  Cell/Direct # 
>> Online: www.surfici.net 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> What can ICI do for you?
>> 
>> 
>> Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
>> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
>>   
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
>> addressee shown. It contains information that is 
>> confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
>> dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
>> unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
>> prohibited.
>> 
>>  
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

I thought everyone, question is how often, and whether you’re on latest FW and 
has that reduced it.  I think it’s a once or twice a month type of thing.

George has mentioned it in several posts I think.


From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to with 450?

So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?

Mark

  On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan  wrote:

  I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
Resets.  
  Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/


  On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

  Hello Cambium,


   
  At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was 
very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the 
spectrum. 

  We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to 
fix this short term.

  The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with 
it.  


   
  Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance 
of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would 
prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.


   
  If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 


   
  Thank you,


   
  Tyson Burris, President 
  Internet Communications Inc. 
  739 Commerce Dr. 
  Franklin, IN 46131 

  317-738-0320 Daytime # 
  317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
  Online: www.surfici.net 


   
  

  What can ICI do for you? 


  Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
  addressee shown. It contains information that is 
  confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
  dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
  unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
  prohibited. 


   

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

Yeah yeah :)

So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE
Injector providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Just teasing...
>
> *From:* Josh Baird 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
> There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some*
> issues.
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>>
>> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first
>> week of operation).
>>
>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>>
>> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is
>> having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We
>> are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
>> brings it back to life.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>> Inc  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>>> the spectrum.
>>>
>>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>>> available to fix this short term.
>>>
>>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>>> public.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: ICI]
>>>
>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>> *prohibited.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Luthman]

Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops booting
at 20v.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Yeah yeah :)
>
> So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE
> Injector providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Just teasing...
>>
>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>>
>> There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some*
>> issues.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>>>
>>> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the
>>> first week of operation).
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP
>>> units.
>>>
>>> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is
>>> having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We
>>> are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
>>> brings it back to life.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>>> Inc  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>>>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>>>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>>>> the spectrum.
>>>>
>>>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>>>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>>>> available to fix this short term.
>>>>
>>>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing
>>>> with it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>>>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>>>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>>>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>>>> public.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>>
>>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: ICI]
>>>>
>>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>>>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>>
>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>>> *prohibited.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

This is the only AP on the site that is having problems.  All cable runs
are the same (~200ft).

It has also worked for months up until today.  This problem has suffered
the management loss/cold temperature problems as well.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops booting
> at 20v.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Yeah yeah :)
>>
>> So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE
>> Injector providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Just teasing...
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP
>>> units.
>>>
>>> There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some*
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>>>>
>>>> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the
>>>> first week of operation).
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP
>>>> units.
>>>>
>>>> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites
>>>> is having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.
>>>> We are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
>>>> brings it back to life.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>>>> Inc  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>>>>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  
>>>>> It
>>>>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>>>>> the spectrum.
>>>>>
>>>>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>>>>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>>>>> available to fix this short term.
>>>>>
>>>>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing
>>>>> with it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
>>>>> performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been
>>>>> suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement program
>>>>> immediately.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>>>>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>>>>> public.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>>>
>>>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>>>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: ICI]
>>>>>
>>>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones
>>>>> - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>>>> *prohibited.*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Mathew Howard]

Have you put the RC firmware on it?

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> This is the only AP on the site that is having problems.  All cable runs
> are the same (~200ft).
>
> It has also worked for months up until today.  This problem has suffered
> the management loss/cold temperature problems as well.
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:
>
>> Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops
>> booting at 20v.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah yeah :)
>>>
>>> So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE
>>> Injector providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just teasing...
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP
>>>> units.
>>>>
>>>> There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some*
>>>> issues.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>>>>>
>>>>> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the
>>>>> first week of operation).
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP
>>>>> units.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites
>>>>> is having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.
>>>>> We are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
>>>>> brings it back to life.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet
>>>>> Communications Inc  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana
>>>>>> WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with
>>>>>> ePMPs.  It was very interesting to learn we are experience identical
>>>>>> problems across the spectrum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>>>>>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>>>>>> available to fix this short term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing
>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
>>>>>> performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been
>>>>>> suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement program
>>>>>> immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance
>>>>>> is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be 
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> public.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>>>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>>>>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: ICI]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones
>>>>>> - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>>>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>>>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>>>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>>>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>>>>> *prohibited.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc]

Yes! Same here.  Packet Flux to brick on some sites…almost like a negotiation 
issue when it gets cold.  Cable length isn’t a factor.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Yeah yeah :)

 

So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE Injector 
providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Just teasing...

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some* issues.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!

 

(That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first week 
of operation).

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is having 
issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We are going 
to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that brings it back to 
life.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net> > wrote:

Hello Cambium,

 

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs compared 
notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was very 
interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have identified.  
We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to fix this 
short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with it.  

 

Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of the 
product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer a 
full recall and replacement program immediately.

 

If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 

 

Thank you,

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320   Daytime # 
317-412-1540   Cell/Direct # 
Online:  <http://www.surfici.net> www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

 

 

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> 
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4522/11443 - Release Date: 01/20/16

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

I just did.  Hopefully it stabilizes things.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Have you put the RC firmware on it?
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> This is the only AP on the site that is having problems.  All cable runs
>> are the same (~200ft).
>>
>> It has also worked for months up until today.  This problem has suffered
>> the management loss/cold temperature problems as well.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops
>>> booting at 20v.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah yeah :)
>>>>
>>>> So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE
>>>> Injector providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just teasing...
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP
>>>>> units.
>>>>>
>>>>> There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some*
>>>>> issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the
>>>>>> first week of operation).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Josh Baird 
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP
>>>>>> units.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites
>>>>>> is having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one 
>>>>>> AP.
>>>>>> We are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
>>>>>> brings it back to life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet
>>>>>> Communications Inc  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana
>>>>>>> WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with
>>>>>>> ePMPs.  It was very interesting to learn we are experience identical
>>>>>>> problems across the spectrum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>>>>>>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>>>>>>> available to fix this short term.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing
>>>>>>> with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
>>>>>>> performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been
>>>>>>> suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement program
>>>>>>> immediately.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance
>>>>>>> is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be 
>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>> public.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>>>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>>>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>>>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>>>>>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>>>>>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [image: ICI]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
>>>>>>> Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>>>>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>>>>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>>>>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>>>>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>>>>>> *prohibited.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[George Skorup]

I have a handful (3.6, 5.4/5.7 and the one lonely 2.4 AP) seeing 
watchdog resets. Almost everything is on 13.2.1. I'm testing 13.4 
official on our NOC 5.4 omni and it has been stack dumping and seeing 
considerably more silent resets the last few weeks while it has been 
pretty cold. It reset 4 or 5 times yesterday. The other pattern I've 
noticed is that the APs with more traffic load seem to reset more often.


I haven't seen many stack dumps out of 13.2.1, so that's where I'm 
staying for now. I'll probably downgrade the NOC AP and see what that 
does because it's getting ridiculous. My guess is it's still going to 
see the silent resets.


On 1/20/2016 1:09 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to 
with 450?


So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?

Mark

On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan 
mailto:installe...@foxvalley.net>> wrote:


I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from 
Watchdog Resets.

Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/

On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc  wrote:


Hello Cambium,


At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana
WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are
seeing with ePMPs.  It was very interesting to learn we are
experience identical problems across the spectrum.

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you
have identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has
been made available to fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of
dealing with it.


Our concern is simple. If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has
been suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement
program immediately.


If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product
performance is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would
like for this to be made public.


Thank you,


*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net* 




*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc]

I can tell you the firmware fix did not help at either sites we had issues.  

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

I just did.  Hopefully it stabilizes things.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Have you put the RC firmware on it?

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:36 PM, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

This is the only AP on the site that is having problems.  All cable runs are 
the same (~200ft).

 

It has also worked for months up until today.  This problem has suffered the 
management loss/cold temperature problems as well.  

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> > wrote:

Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops booting at 
20v.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yeah yeah :)

 

So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE Injector 
providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Just teasing...

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some* issues.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!

 

(That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first week 
of operation).

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is having 
issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We are going 
to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that brings it back to 
life.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
mailto:t...@franklinisp.net> > wrote:

Hello Cambium,

 

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs compared 
notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was very 
interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have identified.  
We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to fix this 
short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with it.  

 

Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of the 
product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer a 
full recall and replacement program immediately.

 

If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 

 

Thank you,

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320   Daytime # 
317-412-1540   Cell/Direct # 
Online:  <http://www.surfici.net> www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> 
Version: 2016.0.7294 / Virus Database: 4522/11443 - Release Date: 01/20/16

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

Silent reset?
How do you know, if it’s silent?

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

I have a handful (3.6, 5.4/5.7 and the one lonely 2.4 AP) seeing watchdog 
resets. Almost everything is on 13.2.1. I'm testing 13.4 official on our NOC 
5.4 omni and it has been stack dumping and seeing considerably more silent 
resets the last few weeks while it has been pretty cold. It reset 4 or 5 times 
yesterday. The other pattern I've noticed is that the APs with more traffic 
load seem to reset more often.

I haven't seen many stack dumps out of 13.2.1, so that's where I'm staying for 
now. I'll probably downgrade the NOC AP and see what that does because it's 
getting ridiculous. My guess is it's still going to see the silent resets.


On 1/20/2016 1:09 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to with 
450?

  So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?

  Mark

On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan  
wrote:

I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
Resets.  
Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/


On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications 
Inc  wrote:

Hello Cambium,


 
At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was 
very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the 
spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to 
fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing 
with it.  


 
Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance 
of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would 
prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.


 
If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 


 
Thank you,


 
Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 


 


What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - 
IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 


 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Mark Radabaugh]

Your going to see a lot more with the new software- stay with 13.2.1 for now, 
and it gets FAR worse in cold weather.

Mark

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 2:40 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
> 
> I have a handful (3.6, 5.4/5.7 and the one lonely 2.4 AP) seeing watchdog 
> resets. Almost everything is on 13.2.1. I'm testing 13.4 official on our NOC 
> 5.4 omni and it has been stack dumping and seeing considerably more silent 
> resets the last few weeks while it has been pretty cold. It reset 4 or 5 
> times yesterday. The other pattern I've noticed is that the APs with more 
> traffic load seem to reset more often.
> 
> I haven't seen many stack dumps out of 13.2.1, so that's where I'm staying 
> for now. I'll probably downgrade the NOC AP and see what that does because 
> it's getting ridiculous. My guess is it's still going to see the silent 
> resets.
> 
> On 1/20/2016 1:09 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>> Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to with 
>> 450?
>> 
>> So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan < 
>>> installe...@foxvalley.net 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
>>> Resets.  
>>> Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/
>>> 
>>> On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
 Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?
 
 
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 
 On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications 
 Inc mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:
 Hello Cambium,
 
  
 At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
 compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  
 It was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems 
 across the spectrum.
 
 We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
 identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made 
 available to fix this short term.
 
 The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with 
 it. 
 
  
 Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of 
 the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would 
 prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
 
  
 If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
 inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made 
 public. 
 
  
 Thank you,
 
  
 Tyson Burris, President 
 Internet Communications Inc. 
 739 Commerce Dr. 
 Franklin, IN 46131 
   
 317-738-0320  Daytime # 
 317-412-1540  Cell/Direct # 
 Online: www.surfici.net 
  
 
 
 What can ICI do for you?
 
 
 Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
 Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
   
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
 addressee shown. It contains information that is 
 confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
 dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
 unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
 prohibited.
 
  
 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[George Skorup]

Silent meaning no apparent reason. Just a watchdog reset. Like this:

**System Startup**
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 
5525.0 MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms

FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 06:37:35 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 06:37:35 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 06:37:50 CST : Acquired sync pulse from Timing Port/UGPS.
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : :
01/01/2011 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time Set
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST :
**System Startup**
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 
5525.0 MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms

FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 18:20:53 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 18:20:53 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 18:21:11 CST : Acquired sync pulse from Timing Port/UGPS.
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : :
01/01/2011 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time Set
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST :
**System Startup**
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 
5525.0 MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms

FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 20:09:53 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 20:09:53 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 20:10:10 CST : Acquired sync pulse from On-board GPS.

On 1/20/2016 1:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Silent reset?
How do you know, if it’s silent?
*From:* George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
I have a handful (3.6, 5.4/5.7 and the one lonely 2.4 AP) seeing 
watchdog resets. Almost everything is on 13.2.1. I'm testing 13.4 
official on our NOC 5.4 omni and it has been stack dumping and seeing 
considerably more silent resets the last few weeks while it has been 
pretty cold. It reset 4 or 5 times yesterday. The other pattern I've 
noticed is that the APs with more traffic load seem to reset more often.


I haven't seen many stack dumps out of 13.2.1, so that's where I'm 
staying for now. I'll probably downgrade the NOC AP and see what that 
does because it's getting ridiculous. My guess is it's still going to 
see the silent resets.


On 1/20/2016 1:09 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to 
with 450?

So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?
Mark
On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan 
 wrote:
I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from 
Watchdog Resets.

Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/

On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc  wrote:


Hello Cambium,


At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us
Indiana WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we
are seeing with ePMPs.  It was very interesting to learn we are
experience identical problems across the spectrum.

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you
have identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has
been made available to fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of
dealing with it.


Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has
been suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement
program immediately.


If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product
performance is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would
like for this to be made public.


Thank you,


*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net/>




*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

OK, I thought those were the watchdog resets everyone was talking about.  Yes, 
I see those.

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 3:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Silent meaning no apparent reason. Just a watchdog reset. Like this:

**System Startup** 
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset 
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 5525.0 
MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms
FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 06:37:35 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 06:37:35 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 06:37:50 CST : Acquired sync pulse from Timing Port/UGPS.
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : :
01/01/2011 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time Set
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : 
**System Startup** 
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset 
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 5525.0 
MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms
FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 18:20:53 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 18:20:53 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 18:21:11 CST : Acquired sync pulse from Timing Port/UGPS.
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : :
01/01/2011 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time Set
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : 
**System Startup** 
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset 
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 5525.0 
MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms
FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 20:09:53 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 20:09:53 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 20:10:10 CST : Acquired sync pulse from On-board GPS.


On 1/20/2016 1:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Silent reset?
  How do you know, if it’s silent?

  From: George Skorup 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

  I have a handful (3.6, 5.4/5.7 and the one lonely 2.4 AP) seeing watchdog 
resets. Almost everything is on 13.2.1. I'm testing 13.4 official on our NOC 
5.4 omni and it has been stack dumping and seeing considerably more silent 
resets the last few weeks while it has been pretty cold. It reset 4 or 5 times 
yesterday. The other pattern I've noticed is that the APs with more traffic 
load seem to reset more often.

  I haven't seen many stack dumps out of 13.2.1, so that's where I'm staying 
for now. I'll probably downgrade the NOC AP and see what that does because it's 
getting ridiculous. My guess is it's still going to see the silent resets.


  On 1/20/2016 1:09 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to with 
450?

So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?

Mark

  On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan  
wrote:

  I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
Resets.  
  Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/


  On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications 
Inc  wrote:

  Hello Cambium,


   
  At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana 
WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  
It was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across 
the spectrum. 

  We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to 
fix this short term.

  The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing 
with it.  


   
  Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the 
performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, 
we would prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.


   
  If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance 
is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made 
public.  


   
  Thank you,


   
  Tyson Burris, President 
  Internet Communications Inc. 
  739 Commerce Dr. 
  Franklin, IN 46131 

  317-738-0320 Daytime # 
  317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
  Online: www.surfici.net 


   
  

  What can ICI do for you? 


  Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Sol

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Tushar Patel]

That's what they used to tell us too.  We have given up on the subject now. 

Tushar


> On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> 
> Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to with 
> 450?
> 
> So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
>> Resets.  
>> Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/
>> 
>>> On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>> Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
 On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications 
 Inc  wrote:
 Hello Cambium,
 
  
 At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs 
 compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  
 It was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems 
 across the spectrum.
 
 We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have 
 identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made 
 available to fix this short term.
 
 The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with 
 it. 
 
  
 Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of 
 the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would 
 prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
 
  
 If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
 inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made 
 public. 
 
  
 Thank you,
 
  
 Tyson Burris, President 
 Internet Communications Inc. 
 739 Commerce Dr. 
 Franklin, IN 46131 
   
 317-738-0320 Daytime # 
 317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
 Online: www.surfici.net
 
  
 
 
 What can ICI do for you?
 
 
 Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
 Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
   
 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
 addressee shown. It contains information that is 
 confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
 dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
 unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
 prohibited.
 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Darren Shea]

Yes, we are still having the random PMP 450 AP reboots – they may have fixed it 
in a newer firmware, but as there have been some serious bugs which were 
showstoppers for us with every version after 13.2, we wouldn’t know. I’m not 
slapping an untested beta f/w on an AP with 60 subscribers, and the test units 
in the lab never seem as prone to the problem.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

I thought everyone, question is how often, and whether you’re on latest FW and 
has that reduced it.  I think it’s a once or twice a month type of thing.

 

George has mentioned it in several posts I think.

 

 

From: Mark Radabaugh <mailto:m...@amplex.net>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:09 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens to with 450?

 

So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?

 

Mark

 

On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan  wrote:

 

I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from Watchdog 
Resets.  
Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/

On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?

 

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Hello Cambium,


 

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs compared 
notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was very 
interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have identified.  
We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to fix this 
short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with it.  


 

Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of the 
product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer a 
full recall and replacement program immediately.


 

If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 


 

Thank you,


 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online:  <http://www.surfici.net/> www.surfici.net 


 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 


 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Brandon Yuchasz]

So the light bulb started to glow a little dim and then lit up while reading 
the list. Is this in the 2.4 ghz and 5ghz equipment? I have a 2.4 that is been 
in the air since July we did some testing and never took it live. Last week I 
got one of the new force units and we went out to test again. The AP is dead 
wont power up as far as I can tell from the ground. It was -20  here at night 
and just hitting 0 during the day. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net <http://www.gogebicrange.net/> 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops booting at 
20v.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

Yeah yeah :)

 

So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE Injector 
providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Just teasing...

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some* issues.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!

 

(That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first week 
of operation).

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is having 
issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We are going 
to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that brings it back to 
life.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Hello Cambium,

 

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs compared 
notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was very 
interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have identified.  
We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to fix this 
short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with it.  

 

Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of the 
product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer a 
full recall and replacement program immediately.

 

If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 

 

Thank you,

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online:  <http://www.surfici.net> www.surfici.net 

 

ICI

What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[George Skorup]

They call it SWDR, silent watchdog reset.

On 1/20/2016 3:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
OK, I thought those were the watchdog resets everyone was talking 
about.  Yes, I see those.

*From:* George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 3:42 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
Silent meaning no apparent reason. Just a watchdog reset. Like this:

**System Startup**
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 
5525.0 MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms

FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 06:37:35 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 06:37:35 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 06:37:50 CST : Acquired sync pulse from Timing Port/UGPS.
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : :
01/01/2011 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time Set
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST :
**System Startup**
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 
5525.0 MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms

FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 18:20:53 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 18:20:53 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 18:21:11 CST : Acquired sync pulse from Timing Port/UGPS.
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST : :
01/01/2011 : 00:00:00 UTC : :Time Set
12/31/2010 : 18:00:00 CST :
**System Startup**
System Reset Exception -- Watchdog Reset
Software Version : CANOPY 13.4 AP-DES
Board Type : P12
Device Setting : 5.4GHz MIMO OFDM - Access Point - 0a-00-3e-a0-3c-a7 - 
5525.0 MHz - 20.0 MHz - 1/16 - CC 77 - 2.5 ms

FPGA Version : 040715
FPGA Features : DES, Sched, US/ETSI;
01/19/2016 : 20:09:53 CST : :Time Set
01/19/2016 : 20:09:53 CST : :GPS Date/Time Set;
01/19/2016 : 20:10:10 CST : Acquired sync pulse from On-board GPS.

On 1/20/2016 1:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Silent reset?
How do you know, if it’s silent?
*From:* George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
I have a handful (3.6, 5.4/5.7 and the one lonely 2.4 AP) seeing 
watchdog resets. Almost everything is on 13.2.1. I'm testing 13.4 
official on our NOC 5.4 omni and it has been stack dumping and seeing 
considerably more silent resets the last few weeks while it has been 
pretty cold. It reset 4 or 5 times yesterday. The other pattern I've 
noticed is that the APs with more traffic load seem to reset more often.


I haven't seen many stack dumps out of 13.2.1, so that's where I'm 
staying for now. I'll probably downgrade the NOC AP and see what that 
does because it's getting ridiculous. My guess is it's still going to 
see the silent resets.


On 1/20/2016 1:09 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
Wait - they keep telling us we are the only ones that this happens 
to with 450?

So who else is having reboot-o-rama with 450’s?
Mark
On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:20 PM, Brian Sullivan 
 wrote:
I wish they would fix/replace the bad 450 AP's that suffer from 
Watchdog Resets.

Although replacing 100 450 AP's is cheaper than ePMP.  :-/

On 1/20/2016 12:11 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Why would making the memory faster degrade performance?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet 
Communications Inc  wrote:


Hello Cambium,


At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us
Indiana WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we
are seeing with ePMPs.  It was very interesting to learn we
are experience identical problems across the spectrum.

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you
have identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has
been made available to fix this short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of
dealing with it.


Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the
performance of the product or triggers other issues, as it has
been suggested, we would prefer a full recall and replacement
program immediately.


If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product
performance is inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would
like for this to be made public.


Thank you,


*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*317-738-0320  Daytime #*
*317-412-1540  Cell/Direct #*
*Online: *** <http://www.surfici.net/>*www.surfici.net*




*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

5ghz in my case.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> So the light bulb started to glow a little dim and then lit up while
> reading the list. Is this in the 2.4 ghz and 5ghz equipment? I have a 2.4
> that is been in the air since July we did some testing and never took it
> live. Last week I got one of the new force units and we went out to test
> again. The AP is dead wont power up as far as I can tell from the ground.
> It was -20  here at night and just hitting 0 during the day.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:33 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops booting
> at 20v.
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> Yeah yeah :)
>
>
>
> So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE
> Injector providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Just teasing...
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Baird 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some*
> issues.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>
>
>
> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first
> week of operation).
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Baird 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is
> having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We
> are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
> brings it back to life.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
> Hello Cambium,
>
>
>
> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
> the spectrum.
>
> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
> available to fix this short term.
>
> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
> it.
>
>
>
> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of
> the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>
>
>
> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
> public.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Thanks Josh.  Was it one of the mac addresses affected by the cold issues?

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net <http://www.gogebicrange.net/> 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 4:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

5ghz in my case.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Brandon Yuchasz  wrote:

So the light bulb started to glow a little dim and then lit up while reading 
the list. Is this in the 2.4 ghz and 5ghz equipment? I have a 2.4 that is been 
in the air since July we did some testing and never took it live. Last week I 
got one of the new force units and we went out to test again. The AP is dead 
wont power up as far as I can tell from the ground. It was -20  here at night 
and just hitting 0 during the day. 

 

Best regards,

Brandon Yuchasz

GogebicRange.net

www.gogebicrange.net <http://www.gogebicrange.net/> 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops booting at 
20v.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

Yeah yeah :)

 

So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE Injector 
providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Just teasing...

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some* issues.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!

 

(That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first week 
of operation).

 

From: Josh Baird <mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is having 
issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We are going 
to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that brings it back to 
life.

 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

Hello Cambium,

 

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs compared 
notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It was very 
interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across the spectrum. 

We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have identified.  
We also understand the firmware RC that has been made available to fix this 
short term.

The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with it.  

 

Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of the 
product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would prefer a 
full recall and replacement program immediately.

 

If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is 
inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made public. 
 

 

Thank you,

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online:  <http://www.surfici.net> www.surfici.net 

 

ICI

What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

Yessir.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
wrote:

> Thanks Josh.  Was it one of the mac addresses affected by the cold issues?
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 4:53 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> 5ghz in my case.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Brandon Yuchasz 
> wrote:
>
> So the light bulb started to glow a little dim and then lit up while
> reading the list. Is this in the 2.4 ghz and 5ghz equipment? I have a 2.4
> that is been in the air since July we did some testing and never took it
> live. Last week I got one of the new force units and we went out to test
> again. The AP is dead wont power up as far as I can tell from the ground.
> It was -20  here at night and just hitting 0 during the day.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Brandon Yuchasz
>
> GogebicRange.net
>
> www.gogebicrange.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:33 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> Long power run?  Is it possible you're losing 6v?  The radio stops booting
> at 20v.
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> Yeah yeah :)
>
>
>
> So - we moved it from a SyncInjector providing ~26V to a Cambium PoE
> Injector providing 30V.  It brought it back to life (at least temporarily).
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Just teasing...
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Baird 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:23 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> There have been some reports that feeding them with 48V fixes *some*
> issues.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Just keep raising the voltage until it starts working dammit!
>
>
>
> (That is how the first transatlantic telegraph cable got ruined the first
> week of operation).
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Baird 
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:08 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> Tell me about it.. first decent snow here today, and one of our sites is
> having issues (only the ePMP).  I think we have completely lost one AP.  We
> are going to try and feed it 48V (it's currently 24V) and see if that
> brings it back to life.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
> Hello Cambium,
>
>
>
> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
> the spectrum.
>
> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
> available to fix this short term.
>
> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
> it.
>
>
>
> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of
> the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>
>
>
> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
> public.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
case.

WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.

The setup is as follows:

ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a Gigabit
Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of each
'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so
I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m
of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is
in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.

When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:

At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is consistent
on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it works,
sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage
inputs for the ePMP.

At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It won't
turn back on until around 22V.

Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench, this
unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
24V.

This explains why things work well at 30V.

For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing the
voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely handle
up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector are
either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is perfectly
acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.

So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what
happens.

-forrest












On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
Inc  wrote:

> Hello Cambium,
>
>
>
> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
> the spectrum.
>
> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
> available to fix this short term.
>
> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
> it.
>
>
>
> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance of
> the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>
>
>
> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
> public.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I do want to clarify one item:

This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want
to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of
an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
the problems without causing others.

Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
operate correctly).

-forrest

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>
> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
> case.
>
> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>
> The setup is as follows:
>
> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a Gigabit
> Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of each
> 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so
> I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m
> of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is
> in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.
>
> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
> pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>
> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is consistent
> on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it works,
> sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage
> inputs for the ePMP.
>
> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It won't
> turn back on until around 22V.
>
> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
> 24V.
>
> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>
> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing the
> voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely handle
> up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector are
> either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is perfectly
> acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>
> So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what
> happens.
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
>> Hello Cambium,
>>
>>
>>
>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>> the spectrum.
>>
>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>> available to fix this short term.
>>
>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>> prefer a full recall and replacement progra

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

Thanks for the info!  I'm going to see if I can crank my 24V DC-DC
converter up to ~29V at this site temporarily.  It's too snowy at the
moment to rewire for 48V.  How were you determining voltage at the AP?

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>
> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
> case.
>
> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>
> The setup is as follows:
>
> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a Gigabit
> Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of each
> 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so
> I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m
> of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is
> in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.
>
> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
> pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>
> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is consistent
> on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it works,
> sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage
> inputs for the ePMP.
>
> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It won't
> turn back on until around 22V.
>
> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
> 24V.
>
> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>
> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing the
> voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely handle
> up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector are
> either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is perfectly
> acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>
> So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what
> happens.
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
> Inc  wrote:
>
>> Hello Cambium,
>>
>>
>>
>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>> the spectrum.
>>
>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>> available to fix this short term.
>>
>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>> public.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>> *317-412-1540 <317-412-1540> Cell/Direct #*
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

With a 8P8C modular banjo and a 5 1/2 digit bench DMM  just part of the
standard test equipment in the lab.

-forrest



On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Thanks for the info!  I'm going to see if I can crank my 24V DC-DC
> converter up to ~29V at this site temporarily.  It's too snowy at the
> moment to rewire for 48V.  How were you determining voltage at the AP?
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>
>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
>> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
>> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
>> case.
>>
>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
>> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
>> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>
>> The setup is as follows:
>>
>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
>> are no clients.
>>
>> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
>> pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
>> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
>> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>>
>> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
>> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
>> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
>> voltage inputs for the ePMP.
>>
>> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
>> won't turn back on until around 22V.
>>
>> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
>> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
>> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
>> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
>> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
>> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
>> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
>> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
>> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
>> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
>> 24V.
>>
>> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>>
>> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing the
>> voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely handle
>> up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector are
>> either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is perfectly
>> acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>>
>> So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what
>> happens.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>> Inc  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>>> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
>>> the spectrum.
>>>
>>> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
>>> identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
>>> available to fix this short term.
>>>
>>> The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing with
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
>>> of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
>>> prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the suggestion that the fix will degrade the product performance is
>>> inaccurate and not cause other issues, I would like for this to be made
>>> public.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *317-738-0320 <317-738-0320> Daytime #*
>>> *317-412-15

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Luthman]

So other end of the wire, not the AP...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 21, 2016 8:54 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> With a 8P8C modular banjo and a 5 1/2 digit bench DMM  just part of
> the standard test equipment in the lab.
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info!  I'm going to see if I can crank my 24V DC-DC
>> converter up to ~29V at this site temporarily.  It's too snowy at the
>> moment to rewire for 48V.  How were you determining voltage at the AP?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>>
>>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
>>> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
>>> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
>>> case.
>>>
>>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
>>> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
>>> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>>
>>> The setup is as follows:
>>>
>>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
>>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
>>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
>>> are no clients.
>>>
>>> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
>>> pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
>>> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
>>> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>>>
>>> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
>>> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
>>> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
>>> voltage inputs for the ePMP.
>>>
>>> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
>>> won't turn back on until around 22V.
>>>
>>> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
>>> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
>>> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
>>> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
>>> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
>>> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
>>> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
>>> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
>>> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
>>> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
>>> 24V.
>>>
>>> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>>>
>>> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing
>>> the voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely
>>> handle up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector
>>> are either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is
>>> perfectly acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>>>
>>> So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>>> Inc  wrote:
>>>
 Hello Cambium,



 At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
 compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
 was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
 the spectrum.

 We all understand this is a DRAM issue with certain units you have
 identified.  We also understand the firmware RC that has been made
 available to fix this short term.

 The bottom line is we are very frustrated and grow tired of dealing
 with it.



 Our concern is simple.  If your software fix ‘degrades’ the performance
 of the product or triggers other issues, as it has been suggested, we would
 prefer a full recall and replacement program immediately.



 If the suggestion that th

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Bill Prince]

I think he puts the banjo on the AP (on the bench).

bp


On 1/21/2016 6:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:


So other end of the wire, not the AP...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 21, 2016 8:54 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:


With a 8P8C modular banjo and a 5 1/2 digit bench DMM  just
part of the standard test equipment in the lab.

-forrest



On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks for the info!  I'm going to see if I can crank my 24V
DC-DC converter up to ~29V at this site temporarily.  It's too
snowy at the moment to rewire for 48V.  How were you
determining voltage at the AP?

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List
Account) mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in
relation to these issues.  In particular, sync from a
PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an ePMP when it's
cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of
what I found.  It's a bit long-winded so that those
experiencing the problems can understand my current
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.

WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of
testing with a single ePMP with no traffic and no clients
and on a bench. This is likely the best case scenario. 
The field is only going to be worse.


The setup is as follows:

ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached,
connected to a Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I
have a special one with a port of each 'type' ;-) ).   I
am powering the injector with a variable power supply so I
can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the
Injector with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna
connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in transmit
mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no
clients.

When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the
AP.   This is pretty consistent with what I would expect
in this situation.   The AP seems to work fine, at least
on the bench and without doing any real work.   However,
as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:

At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky. 
This is consistent on both H and I version ports on the

injector. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note
that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage inputs for the
ePMP.

At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns
off.   It won't turn back on until around 22V.

Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.  
On the bench, this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's

assume that under load, and when temperatures are cold,
this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V
in, this puts you at around 20V in at the AP, which is
about the turnoff point.   Remember this is on 100m of
wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of a
cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless
of the cause - if the circuit resistance when combined
with the power load causes a low enough voltage at the AP,
weird things will happen.  And since weird things seem to
start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom
at 24V.

This explains why things work well at 30V.

For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying
increasing the voltage into the SyncInjector.   The
Revision H injectors can safely handle up to around 56V or
so. Assuming all of the radios on an injector are either
ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is
perfectly acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as
well.

So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of
24V and see what happens.

-forrest












On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet
Communications Inc mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>> wrote:

Hello Cambium,

At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of
us Indiana WISPs compared notes on the ‘cold weather’
  

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

That is correct.   See pic:

[image: Inline image 1]

Now if I could figure out how to get that case open without destroying it
in the process  (note the broken edge on the left of the radio)

-forrest

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> I think he puts the banjo on the AP (on the bench).
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 1/21/2016 6:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> So other end of the wire, not the AP...
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 21, 2016 8:54 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> With a 8P8C modular banjo and a 5 1/2 digit bench DMM  just part of
>> the standard test equipment in the lab.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the info!  I'm going to see if I can crank my 24V DC-DC
>>> converter up to ~29V at this site temporarily.  It's too snowy at the
>>> moment to rewire for 48V.  How were you determining voltage at the AP?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
 A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

 Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
 issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
 an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
 investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
 It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
 understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
 case.

 WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
 single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
 the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.

 The setup is as follows:

 ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
 Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
 each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
 supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
 with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
 them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
 are no clients.

 When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This
 is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
 seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
 work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:

 At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
 consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
 works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
 voltage inputs for the ePMP.

 At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
 won't turn back on until around 22V.

 Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
 this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
 temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
 current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
 at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
 this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
 a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
 if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
 enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
 seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
 24V.

 This explains why things work well at 30V.

 For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing
 the voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely
 handle up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector
 are either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is
 perfectly acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.

 So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see
 what happens.

 -forrest












 On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet
 Communications Inc  wrote:

> Hello Cambium,
>
>
>
> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  
> It
> was very interesting to learn we are experience identical problems across
> the spectrum.
>
> We all understand this is a DRAM issue with cer

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Luthman]

Don't think you can.  I destroyed a busted one.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 21, 2016 9:58 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> That is correct.   See pic:
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
> Now if I could figure out how to get that case open without destroying it
> in the process  (note the broken edge on the left of the radio)
>
> -forrest
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> I think he puts the banjo on the AP (on the bench).
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 1/21/2016 6:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> So other end of the wire, not the AP...
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Jan 21, 2016 8:54 AM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With a 8P8C modular banjo and a 5 1/2 digit bench DMM  just part of
>>> the standard test equipment in the lab.
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the info!  I'm going to see if I can crank my 24V DC-DC
 converter up to ~29V at this site temporarily.  It's too snowy at the
 moment to rewire for 48V.  How were you determining voltage at the AP?

 On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 2:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
 li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>
> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to
> these issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping
> off on an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
> case.
>
> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is 
> likely
> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>
> The setup is as follows:
>
> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port 
> of
> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since 
> there
> are no clients.
>
> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This
> is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>
> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
> voltage inputs for the ePMP.
>
> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
> won't turn back on until around 22V.
>
> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double 
> the
> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts 
> you
> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird 
> things
> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
> 24V.
>
> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>
> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing
> the voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely
> handle up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector
> are either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is
> perfectly acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>
> So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see
> what happens.
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Intern

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Steve D]

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I do want to clarify one item:
>
> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want
> to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of
> an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
> the problems without causing others.
>
> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
> operate correctly).
>
> -forrest
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>
>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
>> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
>> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
>> case.
>>
>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
>> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
>> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>
>> The setup is as follows:
>>
>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
>> are no clients.
>>
>> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
>> pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
>> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
>> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>>
>> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
>> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
>> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
>> voltage inputs for the ePMP.
>>
>> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
>> won't turn back on until around 22V.
>>
>> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
>> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
>> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
>> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
>> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
>> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
>> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
>> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
>> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
>> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
>> 24V.
>>
>> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>>
>> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing the
>> voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely handle
>> up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector are
>> either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is perfectly
>> acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>>
>> So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what
>> happens.
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications
>> Inc  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Cambium,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs
>>> compared notes on the ‘cold weather’ problems we are seeing with ePMPs.  It
>>> was very interesting to learn we are experienc

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Jaime Solorza]

Most quality industrial DC power supplies are adjustable and designed for
wide range of temps.  Just saying
On Jan 21, 2016 8:30 AM, "Steve D"  wrote:

> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
> them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
> recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>
> -Steve D
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I do want to clarify one item:
>>
>> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want
>> to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of
>> an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
>> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
>> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
>> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
>> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
>> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
>> the problems without causing others.
>>
>> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
>> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
>> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
>> operate correctly).
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>>
>>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
>>> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
>>> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
>>> case.
>>>
>>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
>>> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
>>> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>>
>>> The setup is as follows:
>>>
>>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
>>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
>>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
>>> are no clients.
>>>
>>> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
>>> pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
>>> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
>>> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>>>
>>> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
>>> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
>>> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
>>> voltage inputs for the ePMP.
>>>
>>> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
>>> won't turn back on until around 22V.
>>>
>>> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
>>> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
>>> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
>>> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
>>> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
>>> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
>>> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
>>> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
>>> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
>>> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
>>> 24V.
>>>
>>> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>>>
>>> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing
>>> the voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely
>>> handle up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector
>>> are either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is
>>> perfectly acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>>>
>>> So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Comm

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see
anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the
case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not
going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100%
sure...

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:

> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
> them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
> recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>
> -Steve D
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I do want to clarify one item:
>>
>> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want
>> to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of
>> an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
>> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
>> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
>> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
>> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
>> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
>> the problems without causing others.
>>
>> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
>> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
>> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
>> operate correctly).
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>>
>>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
>>> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
>>> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
>>> case.
>>>
>>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
>>> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
>>> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>>
>>> The setup is as follows:
>>>
>>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
>>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
>>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
>>> are no clients.
>>>
>>> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is
>>> pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
>>> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
>>> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>>>
>>> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
>>> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
>>> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
>>> voltage inputs for the ePMP.
>>>
>>> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
>>> won't turn back on until around 22V.
>>>
>>> Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
>>> this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
>>> temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
>>> current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
>>> at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
>>> this is on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of
>>> a cold, under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause -
>>> if the circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low
>>> enough voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things
>>> seem to start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at
>>> 24V.
>>>
>>> This explains why things work well at 30V.
>>>
>>> For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing
>>> the voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely
>>> handle up to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector
>>> are either ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is
>>> perfectly acceptable and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.
>>>
>>> So the summary:   Try 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

I’d look for a bunch of SMD resistors connected in parallel or series, in the 
vicinity of the chip in question ... was it the DRAM?

Remember to pull out the choke lever and push the priming button 3 times in 
cold weather.

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:47 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see anything 
obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the case, I still 
don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not going to pop the 
shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100% sure...   


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:

  Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in 
them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I 
recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot 
but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

  -Steve D

  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

I do want to clarify one item:


This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want 
to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of an 
issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues.   
If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe 
below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix the 
issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it is my 
intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm that 
this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.


Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).


-forrest


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.


  Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these 
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an 
ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating 
this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a bit 
long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my current 
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.


  WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a 
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely the 
best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.


  The setup is as follows:


  ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a 
Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of 
each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so 
I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m of 
CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in 
transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.


  When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is 
pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP seems to 
work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real work.   However, as 
the voltage drops, things start to get weird:


  At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is 
consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it 
works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage 
inputs for the ePMP.


  At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It 
won't turn back on until around 22V.   


  Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench, 
this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when 
temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the 
current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you at 
around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember this is 
on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of a cold, 
under load AP.  But the point is valid, regardless of the cause - if the 
circuit resistance when combined with the power load causes a low enough 
voltage at the AP, weird things will happen.  And since weird things seem to 
start to happen around 22V, there just isn't much headroom at 24V.   


  This explains why things work well at 30V.


  For those who are having this problem I'

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[chuck]

Trangos did.

From: Steve D 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in them 
that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I recall it 
was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot but I can't 
recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  I do want to clarify one item:


  This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want to 
claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of an issue 
where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues.   If 
moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe 
below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix the 
issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it is my 
intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm that 
this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.


  Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).


  -forrest


  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.


Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these 
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an 
ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating 
this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a bit 
long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my current 
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.


WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a 
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely the 
best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.


The setup is as follows:


ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a Gigabit 
Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of each 'type' 
;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so I can vary 
the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m of CAT5 cable. 
  The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in transmit mode, 
but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.


When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is 
pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP seems to 
work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real work.   However, as 
the voltage drops, things start to get weird:


At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is consistent 
on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it works, sometimes 
it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage inputs for the 
ePMP.


At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It won't 
turn back on until around 22V.   


Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench, this 
unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when temperatures 
are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the current, and 
quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you at around 20V in 
at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember this is on 100m of 
wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of a cold, under load AP.  
But the point is valid, regardless of the cause - if the circuit resistance 
when combined with the power load causes a low enough voltage at the AP, weird 
things will happen.  And since weird things seem to start to happen around 22V, 
there just isn't much headroom at 24V.   


This explains why things work well at 30V.


For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing the 
voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely handle up 
to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector are either 
ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is perfectly acceptable 
and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V as well.


So the summary:   Try a 48VDC voltage source instead of 24V and see what 
happens.   


-forrest



   













On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications 
Inc  wrote:

  Hello Cambium,



  At the MidWest-IX launch party last night, several of us Indiana WISPs

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Adam Moffett]

They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training 
in Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.


If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a 
certain temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay 
in startup of up to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the 
CPU up to temp.  I've never actually observed the delay, so I guess 
they're talking about Alaska cold, not NY cold.



On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see 
anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the 
case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm 
not going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to 
be 100% sure...


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D > wrote:


Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small
heater in them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing
additional power?  I recall it was supposed to pre-heat components
to avoid freezeup on first boot but I can't recall if that's the
only time they run or not.

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

I do want to clarify one item:

This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I
don't want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same
thing.   This is more of an issue where you have ePMP's which
seem to start having power-related issues.   If moving to a
30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I
describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't
relate to your issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to
recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm
that this seems to fix at least a decent number of the
problems without causing others.

Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather
aggravating two separate issues (or for that matter, the cold
weather causing increased current consumption in the ePMP,
which then requires a higher voltage to operate correctly).

-forrest

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List
Account) mailto:li...@packetflux.com>>
wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in
relation to these issues. In particular, sync from a
PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an ePMP when it's
cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
investigating this issue. The following is a summary of
what I found.  It's a bit long-winded so that those
experiencing the problems can understand my current
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.

WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of
testing with a single ePMP with no traffic and no clients
and on a bench. This is likely the best case scenario. 
The field is only going to be worse.


The setup is as follows:

ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached,
connected to a Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I
have a special one with a port of each 'type' ;-) ).   I
am powering the injector with a variable power supply so I
can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the
Injector with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna
connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in transmit
mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no
clients.

When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the
AP.   This is pretty consistent with what I would expect
in this situation. The AP seems to work fine, at least on
the bench and without doing any real work. However, as the
voltage drops, things start to get weird:

At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky. 
This is consistent on both H and I version ports on the

injector. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note
that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage inputs for the
ePMP.

At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns
off. It won't turn back on until around 22V.

Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.  
On the bench, this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's

assume that under load, and when temperatures are cold,
this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
current, and 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

Wasn’t there a post recently that the “heater” runs only during pre-boot, 
unlike the Trango heater which ran “as needed”?

The Trango heater was very problematic.


From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Trangos did.

From: Steve D 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in them 
that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I recall it 
was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot but I can't 
recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  I do want to clarify one item:


  This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want to 
claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of an issue 
where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues.   If 
moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe 
below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix the 
issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it is my 
intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm that 
this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.


  Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).


  -forrest


  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.


Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these 
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an 
ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating 
this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a bit 
long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my current 
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.


WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a 
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely the 
best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.


The setup is as follows:


ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a Gigabit 
Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of each 'type' 
;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so I can vary 
the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m of CAT5 cable. 
  The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in transmit mode, 
but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.


When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is 
pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP seems to 
work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real work.   However, as 
the voltage drops, things start to get weird:


At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is consistent 
on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it works, sometimes 
it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage inputs for the 
ePMP.


At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It won't 
turn back on until around 22V.   


Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench, this 
unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when temperatures 
are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the current, and 
quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you at around 20V in 
at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember this is on 100m of 
wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of a cold, under load AP.  
But the point is valid, regardless of the cause - if the circuit resistance 
when combined with the power load causes a low enough voltage at the AP, weird 
things will happen.  And since weird things seem to start to happen around 22V, 
there just isn't much headroom at 24V.   


This explains why things work well at 30V.


For those who are having this problem I'd recommend trying increasing the 
voltage into the SyncInjector.   The Revision H injectors can safely handle up 
to around 56V or so.   Assuming all of the radios on an injector are either 
ePMP or the newer 450i's, using 56V into a SyncInjector is perfectly acceptable 
and the ePMP's are rated up to 56V 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Luthman]

I think 4 minutes if it was Alaska cold :P

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 21, 2016 11:08 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training in
> Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.
>
> If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a
> certain temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in
> startup of up to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU
> up to temp.  I've never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're
> talking about Alaska cold, not NY cold.
>
>
> On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see
> anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the
> case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not
> going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100%
> sure...
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>
>> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
>> them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
>> recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
>> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>>
>> -Steve D
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I do want to clarify one item:
>>>
>>> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't
>>> want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more
>>> of an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
>>> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
>>> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
>>> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
>>> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
>>> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
>>> the problems without causing others.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
>>> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
>>> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
>>> operate correctly).
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
 A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

 Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
 issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
 an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
 investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
 It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
 understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
 case.

 WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
 single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
 the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.

 The setup is as follows:

 ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
 Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
 each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
 supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
 with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
 them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
 are no clients.

 When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This
 is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
 seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
 work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:

 At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
 consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
 works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
 voltage inputs for the ePMP.

 At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
 won't turn back on until around 22V.

 Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
 this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
 temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
 current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you
 at around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember
 this is on 100m of wire, and a total s

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

Or here’s a thought:  pay the money for industrial temperature range parts!

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training in 
Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.

If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a certain 
temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in startup of up 
to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU up to temp.  I've 
never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're talking about Alaska 
cold, not NY cold.



On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see 
anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the case, I 
still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not going to pop 
the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100% sure...   


  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in 
them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I 
recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot 
but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  I do want to clarify one item:


  This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want 
to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of an 
issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues.   
If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe 
below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix the 
issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it is my 
intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm that 
this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.


  Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).


  -forrest


  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.


Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these 
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an 
ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating 
this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a bit 
long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my current 
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.


WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a 
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely the 
best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.


The setup is as follows:


ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a 
Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of 
each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so 
I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m of 
CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in 
transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.


When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This 
is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP seems 
to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real work.   However, 
as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:


At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is 
consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it 
works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage 
inputs for the ePMP.


At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It 
won't turn back on until around 22V.   


Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench, 
this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when 
temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the 
current, and quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you at 
around 20V in at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember this is 
on 100m of wire, and a total speculation about a the powe

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I remember hearing the same thing, which is why I went looking at the
photos.  See
https://apps.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=2053606

There aren't any that I can see, even under the cans.   I thought that
perhaps looking at the actual board would reveal some, but I sure don't see
any.On the SM perhaps?

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training in
> Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.
>
> If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a
> certain temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in
> startup of up to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU
> up to temp.  I've never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're
> talking about Alaska cold, not NY cold.
>
>
> On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see
> anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the
> case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not
> going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100%
> sure...
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>
>> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
>> them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
>> recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
>> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>>
>> -Steve D
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I do want to clarify one item:
>>>
>>> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't
>>> want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more
>>> of an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
>>> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
>>> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
>>> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
>>> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
>>> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
>>> the problems without causing others.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
>>> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
>>> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
>>> operate correctly).
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
 A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

 Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
 issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
 an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
 investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
 It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
 understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
 case.

 WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
 single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
 the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.

 The setup is as follows:

 ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
 Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
 each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
 supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
 with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
 them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
 are no clients.

 When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This
 is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
 seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
 work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:

 At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
 consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
 works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
 voltage inputs for the ePMP.

 At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It
 won't turn back on until around 22V.

 Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench,
 this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when
 temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the
 curren

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ken Hohhof]

Mebbs!  Mebbs!  Unacceptable!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YUE7LAFrOM


From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

I think 4 minutes if it was Alaska cold :P

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 21, 2016 11:08 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

  They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training in 
Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.

  If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a certain 
temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in startup of up 
to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU up to temp.  I've 
never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're talking about Alaska 
cold, not NY cold.



  On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see 
anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the case, I 
still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not going to pop 
the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100% sure...   


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:

  Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in 
them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I 
recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot 
but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

  -Steve D

  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

I do want to clarify one item:


This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't 
want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of 
an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues. 
  If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I 
describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't 
fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it 
is my intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm 
that this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.


Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).


-forrest


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.


  Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to 
these issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off 
on an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening 
investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a 
bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my 
current working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.


  WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with 
a single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely 
the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.


  The setup is as follows:


  ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a 
Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of 
each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so 
I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m of 
CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in 
transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.


  When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This 
is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP seems 
to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real work.   However, 
as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:


  At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is 
consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it 
works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage 
inputs for the ePMP.


  At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It 
won't turn back on until around 22V.   


  Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the 
bench, this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when 
temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Darn FCC site... expires links way too quickly.

The SM pictures look like they MIGHT have one.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I remember hearing the same thing, which is why I went looking at the
> photos.  See
> https://apps.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=2053606
>
> There aren't any that I can see, even under the cans.   I thought that
> perhaps looking at the actual board would reveal some, but I sure don't see
> any.On the SM perhaps?
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training
>> in Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.
>>
>> If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a
>> certain temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in
>> startup of up to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU
>> up to temp.  I've never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're
>> talking about Alaska cold, not NY cold.
>>
>>
>> On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see
>> anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the
>> case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not
>> going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100%
>> sure...
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>>
>>> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater
>>> in them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?
>>> I recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
>>> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>>>
>>> -Steve D
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
 I do want to clarify one item:

 This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't
 want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more
 of an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
 issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
 issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
 voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
 issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
 the problems without causing others.

 Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
 separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
 current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
 operate correctly).

 -forrest

 On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
 li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>
> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to
> these issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping
> off on an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
> case.
>
> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is 
> likely
> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>
> The setup is as follows:
>
> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port 
> of
> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since 
> there
> are no clients.
>
> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This
> is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>
> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated
> voltage inputs for the ePMP.
>
> At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Ben Royer]

The heater only runs on first boot if the temp. is too cold for the radio, but 
once the radio is booted, it will not run again, per Cambium.  For power 
consumption issues, switching to a 48V power supply for your sync injector 
works just fine.  So far, that, combined with new FW, has resolved most of our 
ePMP issues, on the problematic radios in our network.  I’m confident that a 
fully baked 2.6.1 should smooth out any remaining issues related to the cold 
weather.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
217-965-3699 www.royell.net

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Wasn’t there a post recently that the “heater” runs only during pre-boot, 
unlike the Trango heater which ran “as needed”?

The Trango heater was very problematic.


From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Trangos did.

From: Steve D 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in them 
that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I recall it 
was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot but I can't 
recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  I do want to clarify one item:


  This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want to 
claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of an issue 
where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues.   If 
moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe 
below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix the 
issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it is my 
intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm that 
this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.


  Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).


  -forrest


  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.


Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these 
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an 
ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating 
this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a bit 
long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my current 
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.


WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a 
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely the 
best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.


The setup is as follows:


ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a Gigabit 
Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of each 'type' 
;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so I can vary 
the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m of CAT5 cable. 
  The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in transmit mode, 
but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.


When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This is 
pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP seems to 
work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real work.   However, as 
the voltage drops, things start to get weird:


At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is consistent 
on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it works, sometimes 
it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage inputs for the 
ePMP.


At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It won't 
turn back on until around 22V.   


Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench, this 
unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when temperatures 
are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the current, and 
quadruple the voltage drop.  Now, assume 24V in, this puts you at around 20V in 
at the AP, which is about the turnoff point.   Remember this is on 100m of 
wire, and a total speculation about a the power draw of a cold, und

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Ok, I popped the lid here... after realizing it's able to be opened withoud
desoldering.  I take it back... There are several 33.2 Ohm resistors which
are wired suspiciously like heaters  This now is starting to make some
sense.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Darn FCC site... expires links way too quickly.
>
> The SM pictures look like they MIGHT have one.
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I remember hearing the same thing, which is why I went looking at the
>> photos.  See
>> https://apps.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=2053606
>>
>> There aren't any that I can see, even under the cans.   I thought that
>> perhaps looking at the actual board would reveal some, but I sure don't see
>> any.On the SM perhaps?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training
>>> in Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.
>>>
>>> If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a
>>> certain temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in
>>> startup of up to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU
>>> up to temp.  I've never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're
>>> talking about Alaska cold, not NY cold.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>>
>>> I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see
>>> anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the
>>> case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not
>>> going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100%
>>> sure...
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>>>
 Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater
 in them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?
 I recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
 boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.

 -Steve D

 On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
 li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I do want to clarify one item:
>
> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't
> want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is 
> more
> of an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number 
> of
> the problems without causing others.
>
> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
> operate correctly).
>
> -forrest
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>
>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to
>> these issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector 
>> dropping
>> off on an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is 
>> the
>> case.
>>
>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with
>> a single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is
>> likely the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>
>> The setup is as follows:
>>
>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port 
>> of
>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the 
>> Injector
>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since 
>> there
>> are no clients.
>>
>> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This
>> is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Jaime Solorza]

Ha.. make you have a can of ether
On Jan 21, 2016 9:03 AM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> I’d look for a bunch of SMD resistors connected in parallel or series, in
> the vicinity of the chip in question ... was it the DRAM?
>
> Remember to pull out the choke lever and push the priming button 3 times
> in cold weather.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:47 AM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
> I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see
> anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the
> case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not
> going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100%
> sure...
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>
>> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
>> them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
>> recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
>> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>>
>> -Steve D
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I do want to clarify one item:
>>>
>>> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't
>>> want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more
>>> of an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
>>> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
>>> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
>>> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
>>> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
>>> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
>>> the problems without causing others.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
>>> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
>>> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
>>> operate correctly).
>>>
>>> -forrest
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>>>
>>>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
>>>> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
>>>> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>>>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>>>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>>>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
>>>> case.
>>>>
>>>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
>>>> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
>>>> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>>>
>>>> The setup is as follows:
>>>>
>>>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>>>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
>>>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>>>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
>>>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>>>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
>>>> are no clients.
>>>>
>>>> When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This
>>>> is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP
>>>> seems to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real
>>>> work.   However, as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:
>>>>
>>>> At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is
>>>> consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it
>>>> works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rate

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Mike Hammett]

Eventually people will get over their 24v hardons. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:49:01 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units. 







One more picture... Now I have it in my hand these are definitely obvious: 

Inline image 1

See all the 33R2 resistors scattered around, all in parallel 

I count three in the memory can, and ten in the Atheros processor can. 

These are 1206 size, which usually equates to 1/4W maximum dissipation. The 
value is consistent with a heater design as well. 

3.3V rail, subtract 0.3V, divide and you get around .25W of dissipation per 
resistor. Multiply by 13, you get about 3.25W of heating. Definitely enough to 
shift the voltage down into no mans land when these are on. 

-forrest 



On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 



Ok, I popped the lid here... after realizing it's able to be opened withoud 
desoldering. I take it back... There are several 33.2 Ohm resistors which are 
wired suspiciously like heaters This now is starting to make some sense. 





On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




Darn FCC site... expires links way too quickly. 

The SM pictures look like they MIGHT have one. 





On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




I remember hearing the same thing, which is why I went looking at the photos. 
See https://apps.fcc.gov/eas/GetApplicationAttachment.html?id=2053606 

There aren't any that I can see, even under the cans. I thought that perhaps 
looking at the actual board would reveal some, but I sure don't see any. On the 
SM perhaps? 





On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 



They have said there's a resistive heater. I heard it in ePMP training in 
Albany and I've seen it stated on this list. 

If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a certain 
temp before starting up. If it was too cold you'd see a delay in startup of up 
to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU up to temp. I've 
never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're talking about Alaska 
cold, not NY cold. 



On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: 



I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see anything 
obvious. Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the case, I still 
don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not going to pop the 
shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100% sure... 



On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D < bigd...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in them 
that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power? I recall it 
was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot but I can't 
recall if that's the only time they run or not. 


-Steve D 


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




I do want to clarify one item: 


This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue. I don't want to 
claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing. This is more of an issue 
where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues. If 
moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe 
below probably is your issue. If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix the 
issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue. Regardless, it is my 
intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm that 
this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others. 


Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two separate 
issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly). 


-forrest 











On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 











A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side. 

Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these issues. 
In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an ePMP when 
it's cold. I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating this issue. 
The following is a summary of what I found. It's a bit long-winded so that 
those experiencing the problems can understand my c

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[chuck]

Or automotive grade.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Or here’s a thought:  pay the money for industrial temperature range parts!

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training in 
Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.

If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a certain 
temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in startup of up 
to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU up to temp.  I've 
never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're talking about Alaska 
cold, not NY cold.



On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see 
anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the case, I 
still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not going to pop 
the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100% sure...   


  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in 
them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I 
recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot 
but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  I do want to clarify one item:


  This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want 
to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of an 
issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues.   
If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe 
below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix the 
issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it is my 
intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm that 
this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.


  Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).


  -forrest


  On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.


Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these 
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an 
ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating 
this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a bit 
long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my current 
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.


WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a 
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely the 
best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.


The setup is as follows:


ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a 
Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of 
each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so 
I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector with ~100m of 
CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on them, the AP is in 
transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there are no clients.


When feeding the injector with 24V, I get about 23V at the AP.   This 
is pretty consistent with what I would expect in this situation.   The AP seems 
to work fine, at least on the bench and without doing any real work.   However, 
as the voltage drops, things start to get weird:


At around 22V in, (21V at the AP), Sync becomes flaky.  This is 
consistent on both H and I version ports on the injector.Sometimes it 
works, sometimes it doesn't.   Note that 22V is the bottom of the rated voltage 
inputs for the ePMP.


At around 20.5V in (19.5V at the AP), the radio just turns off.   It 
won't turn back on until around 22V.   


Now here's where some total speculation comes to play.   On the bench, 
this unit is drawing around 3W.  Let's assume that under load, and when 
temperatures are cold, this unit draws closer to 6W.  This would double the 
current, and quadruple the voltage drop. 

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Mathew Howard]

I have observed the heater running... if it's cold enough, if you power
cycle the radios it will delay startup... it was around 0 degrees when I
saw it happen, and there was a roughly 5-4 minute delay before the ethernet
linked (apparently how long it runs depends on the temperature), and it was
drawing significantly more power than normal during that time.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Ben Royer  wrote:

> The heater only runs on first boot if the temp. is too cold for the radio,
> but once the radio is booted, it will not run again, per Cambium.  For
> power consumption issues, switching to a 48V power supply for your sync
> injector works just fine.  So far, that, combined with new FW, has resolved
> most of our ePMP issues, on the problematic radios in our network.  I’m
> confident that a fully baked 2.6.1 should smooth out any remaining issues
> related to the cold weather.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 217-965-3699 www.royell.net
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
> Wasn’t there a post recently that the “heater” runs only during pre-boot,
> unlike the Trango heater which ran “as needed”?
>
> The Trango heater was very problematic.
>
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:06 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
> Trangos did.
>
> *From:* Steve D 
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 8:30 AM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
> them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
> recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>
> -Steve D
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> I do want to clarify one item:
>>
>> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want
>> to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of
>> an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
>> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
>> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
>> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
>> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
>> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
>> the problems without causing others.
>>
>> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
>> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
>> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
>> operate correctly).
>>
>> -forrest
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>>>
>>> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
>>> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
>>> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
>>> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
>>> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
>>> understand my current working theory and help me figure out if this is the
>>> case.
>>>
>>> WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a
>>> single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely
>>> the best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.
>>>
>>> The setup is as follows:
>>>
>>> ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a
>>> Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of
>>> each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power
>>> supply so I can vary the voltages in.  The AP is connected to the Injector
>>> with ~100m of CAT5 cable.   The Antenna connectors have terminators on
>>> them, the AP is in transmit mode, but isn't passing any traffic since there
>>> are no clients.
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Andy Trimmell]

So I did some testing today by freezing the AP in the freezer. Heater warm up 
varied between 1 minute and 3 minutes. The amps per unit during the heat up 
time is .45 amps per AP. We were finding that even if its warmed up and you 
unplug it 10 seconds later it will warm up again and again.  After the warm up 
the AP drops its amps to .2 amps.  We are using 2.1amp psu to feed several APs 
because we never use more than that but I think when these heaters get turned 
on during the bootup process we exceed it and overload the psu. 

 

This was all ran into Packetflux gear with a SOLA power supply 2.1Amp. We’re 
going to split the load so if there’s a power blip where the backup doesn’t 
catch it in time all 3 aren’t starting up heaters at the same time.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

-Andy

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 12:03 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Or automotive grade.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>  

Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:15 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

Or here’s a thought:  pay the money for industrial temperature range parts!

 

From: Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:08 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

 

They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training in 
Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.

If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a certain 
temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in startup of up 
to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU up to temp.  I've 
never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're talking about Alaska 
cold, not NY cold.



On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see 
anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the case, I 
still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not going to pop 
the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100% sure...   

 

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater 
in them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I 
recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first boot 
but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not. 

 

-Steve D

 

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

I do want to clarify one item:

This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't 
want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of 
an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related issues. 
  If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the issue I 
describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't 
fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.  Regardless, it 
is my intent to recommend that my customers move to 48V as soon as I confirm 
that this seems to fix at least a decent number of the problems without causing 
others.

Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two 
separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased current 
consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to operate 
correctly).

-forrest

 

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these 
issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on an 
ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening investigating 
this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.  It's a bit 
long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can understand my current 
working theory and help me figure out if this is the case.

WARNING:  The following is based on a limited amount of testing with a 
single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.   This is likely the 
best case scenario.  The field is only going to be worse.

The setup is as follows:

ePMP 1000 GPS AP, with no GPS hockey puck attached, connected to a 
Gigabit Syncinjector (Rev H and Rev I - I have a special one with a port of 
each 'type' ;-) ).   I am powering the injector with a variable power supply so 
I can vary the voltage

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Josh Baird]

Nice, thank you for doing the test and posting the results!  I think this
sort of confirms what we were all thinking.



On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Andy Trimmell 
wrote:

> So I did some testing today by freezing the AP in the freezer. Heater warm
> up varied between 1 minute and 3 minutes. The amps per unit during the heat
> up time is .45 amps per AP. We were finding that even if its warmed up and
> you unplug it 10 seconds later it will warm up again and again.  After the
> warm up the AP drops its amps to .2 amps.  We are using 2.1amp psu to feed
> several APs because we never use more than that but I think when these
> heaters get turned on during the bootup process we exceed it and overload
> the psu.
>
>
>
> This was all ran into Packetflux gear with a SOLA power supply 2.1Amp.
> We’re going to split the load so if there’s a power blip where the backup
> doesn’t catch it in time all 3 aren’t starting up heaters at the same time.
>
>
>
> Hope this information helps.
>
>
>
> -Andy
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 12:03 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> Or automotive grade.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:15 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> Or here’s a thought:  pay the money for industrial temperature range parts!
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett 
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:08 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.
>
>
>
> They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP training in
> Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.
>
> If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a
> certain temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay in
> startup of up to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring the CPU
> up to temp.  I've never actually observed the delay, so I guess they're
> talking about Alaska cold, not NY cold.
>
> On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't see
> anything obvious.  Now I've got the one I have on the bench out of the
> case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but again I'm not
> going to pop the shields off the board (requiring desoldering), to be 100%
> sure...
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D  wrote:
>
> Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small heater in
> them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing additional power?  I
> recall it was supposed to pre-heat components to avoid freezeup on first
> boot but I can't recall if that's the only time they run or not.
>
>
>
> -Steve D
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> I do want to clarify one item:
>
> This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I don't want
> to claim that problem, since this isn't the same thing.   This is more of
> an issue where you have ePMP's which seem to start having power-related
> issues.   If moving to a 30V brick makes your problem go away, then the
> issue I describe below probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher
> voltage doesn't fix the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your
> issue.  Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
> 48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent number of
> the problems without causing others.
>
> Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating two
> separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing increased
> current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a higher voltage to
> operate correctly).
>
> -forrest
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.
>
> Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to these
> issues.  In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector dropping off on
> an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of time this evening
> investigating this issue.  The following is a summary of what I found.
> It's a bit long-winded so that those experiencing the problems can
> understand my curren

Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

[Bill Prince]

What voltage was this at?

IOW, if it was drawing .45 amps at 24 volts, we're talking about almost 
11 watts.


If it is drawing .45 amps at 48 volts, we're talking about almost 22 watts.

bp


On 1/22/2016 12:22 PM, Andy Trimmell wrote:


So I did some testing today by freezing the AP in the freezer. Heater 
warm up varied between 1 minute and 3 minutes. The amps per unit 
during the heat up time is .45 amps per AP. We were finding that even 
if its warmed up and you unplug it 10 seconds later it will warm up 
again and again.  After the warm up the AP drops its amps to .2 amps.  
We are using 2.1amp psu to feed several APs because we never use more 
than that but I think when these heaters get turned on during the 
bootup process we exceed it and overload the psu.


This was all ran into Packetflux gear with a SOLA power supply 2.1Amp. 
We’re going to split the load so if there’s a power blip where the 
backup doesn’t catch it in time all 3 aren’t starting up heaters at 
the same time.


Hope this information helps.

-Andy

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Thursday, January 21, 2016 12:03 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Or automotive grade.

*From:*Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>

*Sent:*Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:15 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

Or here’s a thought:  pay the money for industrial temperature range 
parts!


*From:*Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>

*Sent:*Thursday, January 21, 2016 10:08 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] To Cambium With Love - Replace the bad ePMP units.

They have said there's a resistive heater.  I heard it in ePMP 
training in Albany and I've seen it stated on this list.


If I remember correctly (I might not), they wanted the CPU to hit a 
certain temp before starting up.  If it was too cold you'd see a delay 
in startup of up to 2 minutes while waiting for this heater to bring 
the CPU up to temp.  I've never actually observed the delay, so I 
guess they're talking about Alaska cold, not NY cold.


On 1/21/2016 10:47 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I looked at the high resolution photos on the FCC site and didn't
see anything obvious. Now I've got the one I have on the bench out
of the case, I still don't see anything obvious heater-wise, but
again I'm not going to pop the shields off the board (requiring
desoldering), to be 100% sure...

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Steve D mailto:bigd...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Just throwing this out there, but don't the epmp's have a small
heater in them that could be turning on when it's cold, drawing
additional power?  I recall it was supposed to pre-heat components
to avoid freezeup on first boot but I can't recall if that's the
only time they run or not.

-Steve D

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

I do want to clarify one item:

This is not necessarily related to the cambium DRAM issue.   I
don't want to claim that problem, since this isn't the same
thing.   This is more of an issue where you have ePMP's which seem
to start having power-related issues.   If moving to a 30V brick
makes your problem go away, then the issue I describe below
probably is your issue.  If moving to a higher voltage doesn't fix
the issue then this probably doesn't relate to your issue.
Regardless, it is my intent to recommend that my customers move to
48V as soon as I confirm that this seems to fix at least a decent
number of the problems without causing others.

Unfortunately this might be a case of the cold weather aggravating
two separate issues (or for that matter, the cold weather causing
increased current consumption in the ePMP, which then requires a
higher voltage to operate correctly).

-forrest

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:

A bit of an update from the PacketFlux side.

Late this afternoon I received a ticket from Tyson in relation to
these issues. In particular, sync from a PacketFlux SyncInjector
dropping off on an ePMP when it's cold.  I have spent a bit of
time this evening investigating this issue. The following is a
summary of what I found.  It's a bit long-winded so that those
experiencing the problems can understand my current working theory
and help me figure out if this is the case.

WARNING: The following is based on a limited amount of testing
with a single ePMP with no traffic and no clients and on a bench.