Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
I mean people commit crimes all the time, it's just that nobody points fingers. I, for example, have blatantly and recklessly broken a pledge of mine recently. On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 4:56 PM Reuben Staley via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 5/13/20 5:54 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 6:42:08 PM CDT you wrote: > >> For blog-b-gones, I'd think we'd want 1, maybe 2 a week? I mean, we only > >> blot people like once a month anyway...? > >> > >> -Aris > > > > Well that's an easy fix. We just need to commit/make-up more Agoran > crimes. > > This was something I was going to point out when I got to my computer, > but someone beat me to it, it looks like. I, for one, would be perfectly > fine with being a lot harsher on crimes. > > -- > Trigon > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On 5/13/20 5:54 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 6:42:08 PM CDT you wrote: For blog-b-gones, I'd think we'd want 1, maybe 2 a week? I mean, we only blot people like once a month anyway...? -Aris Well that's an easy fix. We just need to commit/make-up more Agoran crimes. This was something I was going to point out when I got to my computer, but someone beat me to it, it looks like. I, for one, would be perfectly fine with being a lot harsher on crimes. -- Trigon
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On 5/13/20 3:36 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: A couple amendments to this proto idea: Where X = 5 Cards, the player gets 2X. This makes that 5th one especially valuable to the set seeker. I think the scale needs to be even more different. For 1 card redeemed, you get 1 asset per card. For 2 cards redeemed, you get 1.5. This is a noticeable difference of 0.5 more assets per card. From here, we see diminishing returns. 3 cards yield ~0.167 more assets per card, and 4 cards yields ~0.083 more. Finally, 5 cards gives 0.15 extra assets per card. It's absolutely the right call to make 5 cards worth 10 assets, but I think we need to modify this scale such that the difference in asset per card is constantly increasing. -- Trigon
DIS: [Promotor] Draft
Okay, I've been working at this in whatever time I could steal for the last few days, and it's finally here! Behold my draft report! -Aris --- I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the quorum is 5, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are conditional votes). ID Author(s)AITitle --- 8377# R. Lee 2.0 Burden + Accurate Naming 8378# R. Lee 2.0 Bug Fixing IAR Writ 8379# Murphy 1.0 Expand wins by paradox 8380# Muprhy 1.0 Justice for R. Lee 8381# Murphy 1.0 You Tried 8382# nch 1.0 The Webmastor 8383# Trigon 1.0 Agora plays table tennis 8384# P.S.S. 1.0 Bones of Criminals 8385# Jason1.0 Slaying the dragon The proposal pool is currently empty. Legend: * : Democratic proposal. # : Ordinary proposal, unset chamber. e : Economy ministry proposal. f : Efficiency ministry proposal. j : Justice ministry proposal. l : Legislation ministry proposal. p : Participation ministry proposal. The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below. // ID: 8377 Title: Burden + Accurate Naming Adoption index: 2.0 Author: R. Lee Co-authors: WHEREAS an elementary aspect of legal traditions that we all share is that no criminal defendant should bear the burden of proof, and that the Agoran system of criminal justice fails in other basic respects the people of Agora HEREBY RESOLVE the following Retitle rule 2531 to "Defendant's Rights" Retitle rule 2479 to "Official Injustice" Amend the following text in rule 2531 "(1) it attempts to levy a fine on a person for an action or inaction which e (more likely than not) did not commit" to state "(1) it attempts to levy a fine on a person when that person can't be established by a preponderance of the evidence to have committed the action or inaction for which the fine was levied" // ID: 8378 Title: Bug Fixing IAR Writ Adoption index: 2.0 Author: R. Lee Co-authors: Amend the following paragraph in rule 2531 " If the Referee attempts to levy three or more INEFFECTIVE fines in a week, any player CAN, with two support, issue a writ of Impartial Arbitration Restoration, immediately making the position of Referee vacant. When a writ of Impartial Arbitration Restoration is issued, the ADoP SHALL initiate an election for the Referee in a timely fashion. " so that it states If the Referee attempts to levy three or more INEFFECTIVE fines in a week, any player CAN, within two Agoran weeks of that week, issue a writ of Impartial Arbitration Restoration with two support, immediately making the position of Referee vacant. When a writ of Impartial Arbitration Restoration is issued, an election SHOULD be initiated in a timely fashion. // ID: 8379 Title: Expand wins by paradox Adoption index: 1.0 Author: Murphy Co-authors: Amend Rule 2553 (Win by Paradox) by replacing this text: If a CFJ about the legality or possibility of a game action, with this text: If a CFJ about the effectiveness, possibility, or legality of a change in the gamestate // ID: 8380 Title: Justice for R. Lee Adoption index: 1.0 Author: Murphy Co-authors: Award R. Lee the Patent Title of Champion, unless e has already been awarded it in connection with CFJ 3828. // ID: 8381 Title: You Tried Adoption index: 1.0 Author: Murphy Co-authors: Award R. Lee the Patent Title of Money Launderer. // ID: 8382 Title: You Tried Adoption index: 1.0 Author: nch Co-authors: Enact a rule titled "The Webmastor" with Power=1 and the following text: The Webmastor is an office. The Webmastor's monthly report includes a Directory, a Changelog, a Warning Log, and an Error Log. The Directory lists notable currently maintained public resources. The Changelog lists notable changes to resources. The Warning Log lists notable potential issues, such as inaccurate or aging resources or unintended issues with a public resource. The Error Log lists notable losses of resources - where a resource has become inaccessible, unmaintained, or unusable. Where 'notable' is used in this rule its meaning is up to the Webmastor
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Notary] Weekly Nonsense (Report) [attn Promotor]
The notary doesn't recordkeep assets created by contracts anymore, so its
chill. i'll delete those parts of the history section next week.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 10:48 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 5/7/20 3:43 AM, Rebecca via agora-official wrote:
> > History:
> > Mar 01 2020 23:13: Warrigal created
> > Mar 01 2020 23:13: Warrigal purchased 3 shares and became president
> > Mar 03 2020 00:14: Warrigal amended(1) as only party
> > Mar 03 2020 02:11:
> >Warrigal attempted to act on behalf of Gaelan to have em join the
> > contract and buy four shares, but was forbidden by R2519/1
> > Mar 10 2020 01:34:
> >Jason attempted to buy three shares but was not a party to the
> > contract and therefore these actions were ineffective.
> > Mar 21 2020 01:53: Warrigal sold 1 share of DRGN
>
>
> CoE in spirit: the contract never states that shares can only be
> possessed by players or only be sold to players, but this might have
> self-ratified by now.
>
> This never got used, so I submit the following proposal:
>
> Title: Slaying the dragon
>
> Adoption index: 1.0
>
> Author: Jason
>
> Coauthors:
>
> {
>
> For the purposes of this proposal, the Dragon Corporation is the
> contracted created on or about March 1, 2020 by Warrigal.
>
> For each coin owned by the Dragon Corporation, transfer that coin to the
> Lost and Found Department.
>
> Destroy the Dragon Corporation.
>
> }
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
>
--
>From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Protos: Coins have Value
lorite On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:56 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 5/13/2020 1:20 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: > > On 5/13/20 2:04 PM, nch wrote: > >> The equivalent in Agora would be to have several desirable assets and > either > >> 1) restrict who can generate/get each asset without trading or 2) make > >> generating/getting them an investment where players are encouraged to > go deep > >> on one asset and trade for the others. > > > > Who's ready to form Guilds? > > > > Nothing is new... from R1960: > > Each player may have a Role, which is one of the following: > > (a) Politician, > (b) Scribe, > (c) Acolyte. > > A Player may have only one of these roles at a time. If a > Player gains a new role, then e ceases to hold any previous > roles. Initially players do not have any role. > > You could only switch role every 3 months. Each role "generated" one type > of asset, each type of asset had a specific use. Also, some uses of the > assets were role-specific, and there were role-based powers. So you > needed trades/partnerships to do stuff. > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 6:42:08 PM CDT you wrote: > For blog-b-gones, I'd think we'd want 1, maybe 2 a week? I mean, we only > blot people like once a month anyway...? > > -Aris Well that's an easy fix. We just need to commit/make-up more Agoran crimes. -- nch
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:38 PM Aris Merchant < thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:36 PM nch via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 6:20:21 PM CDT Kerim Aydin via >> agora-discussion >> wrote: >> > On 5/13/2020 3:52 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: >> > > Also interested in suggestions for other ways to receive cards. There >> > > shouldn't be too many, because too many different ways will reduce >> > > incentive to trade. But making different cards obtainable in different >> > > flavorful ways would be a lot of fun. >> > >> > What's a good initial target for cards distributed per month, do you >> > think? that would help figure out how many ways. >> >> I think it's gonna vary a lot for card type. We wouldn't want to flood >> any of >> the markets too much though. Especially Victory Points because that reset >> would be annoying if it was frequent and sudden. >> >> Without seeing play it's really hard to say how many assets each card >> will >> translate to on average. But if we assumed that people cash out at 3 >> cards, >> which is probably the sweet spot for ease of obtaining and value, then >> each >> card would add a little less than 2 of its own asset to the economy. >> >> If we adopted the amended ways then that'd be around 5 pends, 5 >> blot-b-gones, >> 5 extra votes, and (assuming the auction is monthly) ~3 victory points a >> week. >> >> That seems a little high for pends and blot-b-gones, probably fine for >> extra >> votes and victory points? > > > 5 pends a week on average sounds pretty reasonable? That's definitely high > for blot-b-gones though. > Actually, hmmm. On second thoughts a bit lower might make more sense. I'll have to think about it and maybe look at my archives for average rates over time. Sorry for waffling. For blog-b-gones, I'd think we'd want 1, maybe 2 a week? I mean, we only blot people like once a month anyway...? -Aris > >
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 4:36 PM nch via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 6:20:21 PM CDT Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion > wrote: > > On 5/13/2020 3:52 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > > Also interested in suggestions for other ways to receive cards. There > > > shouldn't be too many, because too many different ways will reduce > > > incentive to trade. But making different cards obtainable in different > > > flavorful ways would be a lot of fun. > > > > What's a good initial target for cards distributed per month, do you > > think? that would help figure out how many ways. > > I think it's gonna vary a lot for card type. We wouldn't want to flood any > of > the markets too much though. Especially Victory Points because that reset > would be annoying if it was frequent and sudden. > > Without seeing play it's really hard to say how many assets each card will > translate to on average. But if we assumed that people cash out at 3 > cards, > which is probably the sweet spot for ease of obtaining and value, then > each > card would add a little less than 2 of its own asset to the economy. > > If we adopted the amended ways then that'd be around 5 pends, 5 > blot-b-gones, > 5 extra votes, and (assuming the auction is monthly) ~3 victory points a > week. > > That seems a little high for pends and blot-b-gones, probably fine for > extra > votes and victory points? 5 pends a week on average sounds pretty reasonable? That's definitely high for blot-b-gones though. -Aris
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 6:20:21 PM CDT Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > On 5/13/2020 3:52 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > Also interested in suggestions for other ways to receive cards. There > > shouldn't be too many, because too many different ways will reduce > > incentive to trade. But making different cards obtainable in different > > flavorful ways would be a lot of fun. > > What's a good initial target for cards distributed per month, do you > think? that would help figure out how many ways. I think it's gonna vary a lot for card type. We wouldn't want to flood any of the markets too much though. Especially Victory Points because that reset would be annoying if it was frequent and sudden. Without seeing play it's really hard to say how many assets each card will translate to on average. But if we assumed that people cash out at 3 cards, which is probably the sweet spot for ease of obtaining and value, then each card would add a little less than 2 of its own asset to the economy. If we adopted the amended ways then that'd be around 5 pends, 5 blot-b-gones, 5 extra votes, and (assuming the auction is monthly) ~3 victory points a week. That seems a little high for pends and blot-b-gones, probably fine for extra votes and victory points? -- nch
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On 5/13/2020 3:52 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Also interested in suggestions for other ways to receive cards. There > shouldn't be too many, because too many different ways will reduce incentive > to > trade. But making different cards obtainable in different flavorful ways > would be > a lot of fun. What's a good initial target for cards distributed per month, do you think? that would help figure out how many ways.
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 4:40:39 PM CDT Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: > On 5/13/20 5:36 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > A couple amendments to this proto idea: > > > > Where X = 5 Cards, the player gets 2X. This makes that 5th one especially > > valuable to the set seeker. > > > > Diversify the way they are put into circulation. Victory Points should > > still be auctioned, but for the others we could tie them to offices. > > Something like: > > > > The Promotor and the Assessor may each, once a week, create a Pending > > Ticket Card in the possession of any player other than the Promotor or > > Assessor. > > > > The Rulekeepor and the Speaker may each, once a week, create a Extra Vote > > Card in the possession of any player other than the Rulekeepor or > > Speaker. > > > > The CotC and the Referee may each, once a week, create a Blot-B-Gone Card > > in the possession of any player other than the CotC or Referee. > > There's an easy way to bypass this with zombies. An alternative view is > that would just make zombies all the more valuable and drive up their > prices at auction. > > -- > Jason Cobb As fun as that sounds, it'd probably be too powerful in practice. Getting a zombie would already give you access to all their assets so they'll still be more valuable in this system. But letting someone just give themselves cards is a bit much. It might need other restrictions too so it's not purely 'bribe the officeholder' (unless that sounds fun). Maybe a restriction against giving it to a player that earned a card that way last week. Also interested in suggestions for other ways to receive cards. There shouldn't be too many, because too many different ways will reduce incentive to trade. But making different cards obtainable in different flavorful ways would be a lot of fun. Here's another one for Victory Points that I think ties favorably into an existing system: Once a week, after that week's Honour Roll is published, the player with the most Honour may reward emself a Victory Point Card. -- nch
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On 5/13/2020 2:36 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 3:48:49 PM CDT nch via agora-discussion wrote: >> Extremely proto proposal based on the economic arguments I made elsewhere. >> >> Introduce 4 new assets and a corresponding Card for each asset: >> * Pending Tickets >> * Extra Votes >> * Blot-B-Gone >> * Victory Points >> >> Every player starts with 1 Card of each type, also include them in Welcome >> Packages. >> >> Auction off 1 Card of each type at regular intervals. >> >> Any player may Transmute X Cards of the same type, where X is 1-5, into the >> corresponding asset at a ratio of X Cards = X + (X-1) Assets. >> >> When a player has 20 Victory Points, e may declare Victory. When this >> happens, destroy all cards and assets (besides coins), then give every >> player 1 of each card. >> >> -- >> nch > > A couple amendments to this proto idea: > > Where X = 5 Cards, the player gets 2X. This makes that 5th one especially > valuable to the set seeker. I think this is important (was just thinking about payout matrices and thinking I wouldn't put much value in getting card 5 if I already had 4). Overall like the idea.
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On 5/13/20 5:36 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > A couple amendments to this proto idea: > > Where X = 5 Cards, the player gets 2X. This makes that 5th one especially > valuable to the set seeker. > > Diversify the way they are put into circulation. Victory Points should still > be auctioned, but for the others we could tie them to offices. Something like: > > The Promotor and the Assessor may each, once a week, create a Pending Ticket > Card in the possession of any player other than the Promotor or Assessor. > > The Rulekeepor and the Speaker may each, once a week, create a Extra Vote > Card > in the possession of any player other than the Rulekeepor or Speaker. > > The CotC and the Referee may each, once a week, create a Blot-B-Gone Card in > the possession of any player other than the CotC or Referee. There's an easy way to bypass this with zombies. An alternative view is that would just make zombies all the more valuable and drive up their prices at auction. -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 3:48:49 PM CDT nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Extremely proto proposal based on the economic arguments I made elsewhere. > > Introduce 4 new assets and a corresponding Card for each asset: > * Pending Tickets > * Extra Votes > * Blot-B-Gone > * Victory Points > > Every player starts with 1 Card of each type, also include them in Welcome > Packages. > > Auction off 1 Card of each type at regular intervals. > > Any player may Transmute X Cards of the same type, where X is 1-5, into the > corresponding asset at a ratio of X Cards = X + (X-1) Assets. > > When a player has 20 Victory Points, e may declare Victory. When this > happens, destroy all cards and assets (besides coins), then give every > player 1 of each card. > > -- > nch A couple amendments to this proto idea: Where X = 5 Cards, the player gets 2X. This makes that 5th one especially valuable to the set seeker. Diversify the way they are put into circulation. Victory Points should still be auctioned, but for the others we could tie them to offices. Something like: The Promotor and the Assessor may each, once a week, create a Pending Ticket Card in the possession of any player other than the Promotor or Assessor. The Rulekeepor and the Speaker may each, once a week, create a Extra Vote Card in the possession of any player other than the Rulekeepor or Speaker. The CotC and the Referee may each, once a week, create a Blot-B-Gone Card in the possession of any player other than the CotC or Referee. -- nch
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 4:05:54 PM CDT Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > On 5/13/20 2:59 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > > > > I'm kind of confused by the difference between the "new assets" and the > > "cards" (which are themselves assets?) in this description? > > I think Nch means you can redeem Pending Ticket Cards to get 2X - 1 > Pending Tickets. > > -- > Trigon Yea, exactly that. Sorry for the ambiguity. Thus the title. Redeeming more cards at once gives you more of the asset. I also should have included an example: Trigon has 1 Blot-B-Gone Card and 1 Victory Point Card. I have 1 Blot-B-Gone Card and 1 Victory Point Card. If we both Transmuted now, we'd each have a Blot-B-Gone and a Victory Point. Instead, we decide to trade. Trigon gives me a Blot-B-Gone Card and I give Trigon a Victory Point Card. Trigon Trasnmutes eir 2 VPCs and gets 3 VPs. I transmute my 2 BBGCs and get 3 BBGCs. Assuming we both value both those assets equally, we both profited from the trade. -- nch
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On 5/13/20 2:59 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: On 5/13/2020 1:48 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: Extremely proto proposal based on the economic arguments I made elsewhere. Introduce 4 new assets and a corresponding Card for each asset: * Pending Tickets * Extra Votes * Blot-B-Gone * Victory Points Every player starts with 1 Card of each type, also include them in Welcome Packages. Auction off 1 Card of each type at regular intervals. Any player may Transmute X Cards of the same type, where X is 1-5, into the corresponding asset at a ratio of X Cards = X + (X-1) Assets. When a player has 20 Victory Points, e may declare Victory. When this happens, destroy all cards and assets (besides coins), then give every player 1 of each card. I'm kind of confused by the difference between the "new assets" and the "cards" (which are themselves assets?) in this description? I think Nch means you can redeem Pending Ticket Cards to get 2X - 1 Pending Tickets. -- Trigon
Re: DIS: Proto: Sets
On 5/13/2020 1:48 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: > Extremely proto proposal based on the economic arguments I made elsewhere. > > Introduce 4 new assets and a corresponding Card for each asset: > * Pending Tickets > * Extra Votes > * Blot-B-Gone > * Victory Points > > Every player starts with 1 Card of each type, also include them in Welcome > Packages. > > Auction off 1 Card of each type at regular intervals. > > Any player may Transmute X Cards of the same type, where X is 1-5, into the > corresponding asset at a ratio of X Cards = X + (X-1) Assets. > > When a player has 20 Victory Points, e may declare Victory. When this > happens, > destroy all cards and assets (besides coins), then give every player 1 of > each > card. I'm kind of confused by the difference between the "new assets" and the "cards" (which are themselves assets?) in this description?
Re: DIS: Protos: Coins have Value
On 5/13/2020 1:20 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: > On 5/13/20 2:04 PM, nch wrote: >> The equivalent in Agora would be to have several desirable assets and either >> 1) restrict who can generate/get each asset without trading or 2) make >> generating/getting them an investment where players are encouraged to go deep >> on one asset and trade for the others. > > Who's ready to form Guilds? > Nothing is new... from R1960: Each player may have a Role, which is one of the following: (a) Politician, (b) Scribe, (c) Acolyte. A Player may have only one of these roles at a time. If a Player gains a new role, then e ceases to hold any previous roles. Initially players do not have any role. You could only switch role every 3 months. Each role "generated" one type of asset, each type of asset had a specific use. Also, some uses of the assets were role-specific, and there were role-based powers. So you needed trades/partnerships to do stuff.
DIS: Proto: Sets
Extremely proto proposal based on the economic arguments I made elsewhere. Introduce 4 new assets and a corresponding Card for each asset: * Pending Tickets * Extra Votes * Blot-B-Gone * Victory Points Every player starts with 1 Card of each type, also include them in Welcome Packages. Auction off 1 Card of each type at regular intervals. Any player may Transmute X Cards of the same type, where X is 1-5, into the corresponding asset at a ratio of X Cards = X + (X-1) Assets. When a player has 20 Victory Points, e may declare Victory. When this happens, destroy all cards and assets (besides coins), then give every player 1 of each card. -- nch
Re: DIS: Protos: Coins have Value
On 5/13/20 2:04 PM, nch via agora-discussion wrote: The equivalent in Agora would be to have several desirable assets and either 1) restrict who can generate/get each asset without trading or 2) make generating/getting them an investment where players are encouraged to go deep on one asset and trade for the others. Who's ready to form Guilds? -- Trigon
Re: DIS: Protos: Coins have Value
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 2:03:20 PM CDT Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > So, we've tried since 2017 to get an economy going by artificially > limiting the basics (proposals, cfjs, and voting power via zombies) and > it's really not made an economy at all, just a metering of action rates > and very little trading going on. The only "economy-like" thing we had > was when land goods were briefly worth trading. Auctions are sometimes > interesting but that's still not "trading". Arguably a big reversal from my arguments during the Shinies days but if we want an interesting economy I think currency should be almost useless by itself. People trade irl because they want resources or services other people have. There's actually almost nothing productive you can do with money by yourself. It's just a liquid form of wealth that's much easier than trying to trade material goods in every interaction. Additionally, people trade because they want/need many assets, and have the ability to produce very few. Or can produce some small set of assets more effectively than most people, and therefore are better off doing that, profiting off their work, and trading for everything else. The equivalent in Agora would be to have several desirable assets and either 1) restrict who can generate/get each asset without trading or 2) make generating/getting them an investment where players are encouraged to go deep on one asset and trade for the others. -- nch
Re: DIS: Protos: Coins have Value
On 5/13/2020 6:46 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > Here are a few draft proposals to give coins some more uses. For now, > they aren't particularly strong and are designed to still allow > actions if there are bugs, but with time those protections could be > removed. So, we've tried since 2017 to get an economy going by artificially limiting the basics (proposals, cfjs, and voting power via zombies) and it's really not made an economy at all, just a metering of action rates and very little trading going on. The only "economy-like" thing we had was when land goods were briefly worth trading. Auctions are sometimes interesting but that's still not "trading". So I wouldn't start out that way this time (re-adding proposal taxes), maybe? But rather diversify pathways to wealth for its own sake or for the sake of winning? (or if you want "action points" do it separately from coins because the current reward structure doesn't really work for that so much). > After an election is initiated and until > nominations close, any player CAN pay Agora a specified amount, > which is no less half of the minimum of the total number of coins > earned by the office's last non-Interim holder on the most recent > payday On this detail, I don't think people become officers for the salary for the most part, and we have a hard enough time getting people to nominate. Maybe this would work with perk offices (I think only the PM is a "perk" office right now?) but even if we went back to paying for proposals, I'd be leery about taxing elections. -G.
DIS: Protos: Coins have Value
Here are a few draft proposals to give coins some more uses. For now, they aren't particularly strong and are designed to still allow actions if there are bugs, but with time those protections could be removed. Title: Let's Value Coins for Proposals AI: 3 Author: P.S.S. Coauthors: Amend Rule 2350, "Proposals" by appending the following paragraph to its end: The Promotor CAN remove a proposal from the Proposal Pool by announcement if it is not pending and has been added to the Pool more than 14 days ago. Reenact Rule 2445 with the following text: Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or "not pending" (default). Pending List Price is an integer switch, tracked by the Promotor, whose default value is 5. At the beginning of every month, the Pending List Price is set to the mean of the price paid for each proposal pended in the previous month, rounded down. If less than 2 proposals were pended in the previous month, the Pending List Price is set to its default. Pending Minimum Price is, at all times, 9/10ths of the Pending List Price, rounded down. Any player CAN pay Agora a specified amount, which is no less than the Pending Minimum Price, to flip a proposal's imminence to "pending" by announcement. If the specified amount is less than the Pending Minimum Price, then the attempt to pay is INEFFECTIVE, and the proposal's imminence is not flipped. A player SHALL NOT submit and/or pend proposals that, taken collectively, are manifestly unreasonable and excessive (hereafter excess proposals); doing so constitutes the Class-4 Crime of Excess Legislation. The Promotor CAN remove a specified excess proposal from the proposal pool by announcement. If a proposal is ordinary, any officer whose office is interested in the ministry of the chamber to which it is assigned, CAN, without the objection of the Promotor or any other officer whose office is interested in the ministry of the assigned chamber, pend the proposal. Amend Rule 1607, "Distribution" by replacing the fourth paragraph with the following: In a given Agoran week, the Promotor SHALL distribute each pending proposal that was in the Proposal Pool at the beginning of that week, except for those excepted from automatic distribution by other rules, or those that are otherwise removed from the Pool. Title: Let's Value Coins for Offices AI: 2 Author: P.S.S. Coauthors: Amend Rule 2154, "Election Procedure" by replacing the third paragraph with the following: When an election is initiated, it enters the nomination period, which lasts for 4 days. After an election is initiated and until nominations close, any player CAN pay Agora a specified amount, which is no less half of the minimum of the total number of coins earned by the office's last non-Interim holder on the most recent payday and the total number of coins e earned on the most recent Payday, to become a candidate. A candidate ceases to be a candidate if e ceases to be a player during the election or if holding the office would make em Overpowered. Title: Coins and Blots AI: 1.7 Author: P.S.S. Coauthors: Create a new rule, "Indulgences" with power 1.7 with the following text: A player CAN expunge 1 blot from emself by paying 50 coins to Agora. Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
