DIS: Re: BUS: 蘭亭社簿記

[Gaelan Steele]

I’m pretty sure there was something about a “gentleman” in the Japanese 
organization; maybe that could be related?

Gaelan
> On Jun 27, 2017, at 2:48 PM, omd  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I knew CFJ 3492 was a slippery slope.  Silly judge.
>> 
>> This, though, pretty clearly fails the "sufficiently clear" test of
>> CFJs 3471-3472 (and ultimately 1460).
> 
> For reference: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1460
> 
> FWIW, as a Japanese learner, I'm pretty sure the message is mostly gibberish.
> 
> First line: The Google translation seems reasonable, but Japanese
> doesn't distinguish present and future so it was probably intended in
> the present.  'Fukudokko' is Google's translation of '福德公', which is
> not in the dictionary as either a word or a name (the three kanji mean
> 'luck', 'virtue', and 'public', but you can't combine arbitrary kanji
> to make a word).  Note that unlike Chinese, Japanese doesn't generally
> represent foreign words with kanji picked phonetically - it uses
> katakana for foreign words instead - so it couldn't really be that.
> The last bit combines an object marker with a passive verb (to be
> acquired/won), so it would have to be the so-called 'suffering
> passive', where the object (gentleman of 福德公) is the one hurt by the
> action being done, not necessarily its direct subject or object.  But
> then, *what* is being acquired?  Are you acquiring the gentleman who
> is also suffering from it?
> 
> Second line: "Official bulletin time: " … I think the rest is an
> attempt to specify a date and maybe time, but it's way off.
> ('Mizukazuki' is really 'minazuki' and it's an archaic name for June,
> but it doesn't seem to be an archaic date either).
> 
> Third line: "'A' treasure of 蘭亭社 [another non-word] and estate: none".
> 'A' is actually the katakana for the vowel sound 'a', which is not
> generally found by itself; theoretically it could be okurigana, meant
> to spell a word together with 宝 (treasure), but that would be a weird
> combination and definitely isn't in the dictionary.
> 
> Fourth line: "The above"
> 
> Fifth line: [his signature]



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

DIS: Re: BUS: 蘭亭社簿記

[Josh T]

I'd like to point out that the charter of 蘭亭社 was updated last month, which
includes additional definitions.

天火狐

On 27 June 2017 at 17:48, omd  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I knew CFJ 3492 was a slippery slope.  Silly judge.
> >
> > This, though, pretty clearly fails the "sufficiently clear" test of
> > CFJs 3471-3472 (and ultimately 1460).
>
> For reference: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1460
>
> FWIW, as a Japanese learner, I'm pretty sure the message is mostly
> gibberish.
>
> First line: The Google translation seems reasonable, but Japanese
> doesn't distinguish present and future so it was probably intended in
> the present.  'Fukudokko' is Google's translation of '福德公', which is
> not in the dictionary as either a word or a name (the three kanji mean
> 'luck', 'virtue', and 'public', but you can't combine arbitrary kanji
> to make a word).  Note that unlike Chinese, Japanese doesn't generally
> represent foreign words with kanji picked phonetically - it uses
> katakana for foreign words instead - so it couldn't really be that.
> The last bit combines an object marker with a passive verb (to be
> acquired/won), so it would have to be the so-called 'suffering
> passive', where the object (gentleman of 福德公) is the one hurt by the
> action being done, not necessarily its direct subject or object.  But
> then, *what* is being acquired?  Are you acquiring the gentleman who
> is also suffering from it?
>
> Second line: "Official bulletin time: " … I think the rest is an
> attempt to specify a date and maybe time, but it's way off.
> ('Mizukazuki' is really 'minazuki' and it's an archaic name for June,
> but it doesn't seem to be an archaic date either).
>
> Third line: "'A' treasure of 蘭亭社 [another non-word] and estate: none".
> 'A' is actually the katakana for the vowel sound 'a', which is not
> generally found by itself; theoretically it could be okurigana, meant
> to spell a word together with 宝 (treasure), but that would be a weird
> combination and definitely isn't in the dictionary.
>
> Fourth line: "The above"
>
> Fifth line: [his signature]
>

DIS: Re: BUS: 蘭亭社簿記

[omd]

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 8:53 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> I knew CFJ 3492 was a slippery slope.  Silly judge.
>
> This, though, pretty clearly fails the "sufficiently clear" test of
> CFJs 3471-3472 (and ultimately 1460).

For reference: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1460

FWIW, as a Japanese learner, I'm pretty sure the message is mostly gibberish.

First line: The Google translation seems reasonable, but Japanese
doesn't distinguish present and future so it was probably intended in
the present.  'Fukudokko' is Google's translation of '福德公', which is
not in the dictionary as either a word or a name (the three kanji mean
'luck', 'virtue', and 'public', but you can't combine arbitrary kanji
to make a word).  Note that unlike Chinese, Japanese doesn't generally
represent foreign words with kanji picked phonetically - it uses
katakana for foreign words instead - so it couldn't really be that.
The last bit combines an object marker with a passive verb (to be
acquired/won), so it would have to be the so-called 'suffering
passive', where the object (gentleman of 福德公) is the one hurt by the
action being done, not necessarily its direct subject or object.  But
then, *what* is being acquired?  Are you acquiring the gentleman who
is also suffering from it?

Second line: "Official bulletin time: " … I think the rest is an
attempt to specify a date and maybe time, but it's way off.
('Mizukazuki' is really 'minazuki' and it's an archaic name for June,
but it doesn't seem to be an archaic date either).

Third line: "'A' treasure of 蘭亭社 [another non-word] and estate: none".
'A' is actually the katakana for the vowel sound 'a', which is not
generally found by itself; theoretically it could be okurigana, meant
to spell a word together with 宝 (treasure), but that would be a weird
combination and definitely isn't in the dictionary.

Fourth line: "The above"

Fifth line: [his signature]

DIS: Re: BUS: 蘭亭社簿記

[V.J Rada]

I think e's deputizing for reportor

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Oh, here's a slightly different translation from the google one, from:
> http://www.systranet.com/translate/
>
> Because luck of holding office 德 public is negligent, I publishing the
> article below,
> luck 德 am acquired the public gentleman. Communique time: a treasure and
> land of
> four orchid cottage corporations of water non month new moon day child: It
> is not the
> or more oven fox
>
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Quazie wrote:
>
> > Can anyone get a good translation?
> > I've got
> >
> > Because Fukudokko in office is negligent, I will publish the following
> article and win the gentleman of Fukuokko.
> >
> > Bulletin time: Four of Mizukazuki Sakoko
> > A treasure and the locality of Orchidori company: None
> > that's all
> >
> > The sky fox
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:50 AM Josh T  > wrote:
> >   There is like no good quiet time where I am free to do this, so
> here it is.
> > 在職の福德公が怠慢なので、私は以下の記事を公表して、福德公の紳士を獲得されます。
> >
> > 公報時間：水無月朔日子の四つ
> > 蘭亭社のア宝や地所：なし
> > 以上
> >
> > 天火狐
> >
> >
> >
>

DIS: Re: BUS: 蘭亭社簿記

[Kerim Aydin]

Oh, here's a slightly different translation from the google one, from:
http://www.systranet.com/translate/

Because luck of holding office 德 public is negligent, I publishing the article 
below, 
luck 德 am acquired the public gentleman. Communique time: a treasure and land 
of 
four orchid cottage corporations of water non month new moon day child: It is 
not the 
or more oven fox

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Quazie wrote:

> Can anyone get a good translation?
> I've got
> 
> Because Fukudokko in office is negligent, I will publish the following 
> article and win the gentleman of Fukuokko.
> 
> Bulletin time: Four of Mizukazuki Sakoko
> A treasure and the locality of Orchidori company: None
> that's all
> 
> The sky fox
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:50 AM Josh T  wrote:
>   There is like no good quiet time where I am free to do this, so here it 
> is.
> 在��の福德公が怠慢なので、私は以下の��事を公表して、福德公の��士を�@得されます。
> 
> 公���r�g：水�o月朔日子の四つ
> �m亭社のア宝や地所：なし
> 以上
> 
> 天火狐
> 
> 
>

DIS: Re: BUS: 蘭亭社簿記

[Kerim Aydin]

I knew CFJ 3492 was a slippery slope.  Silly judge.

This, though, pretty clearly fails the "sufficiently clear" test of 
CFJs 3471-3472 (and ultimately 1460).

To be safe, I'd issue a Claim of Error that the document is generally
inaccurate, and also maybe object to it... :P

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017, Quazie wrote:
> Can anyone get a good translation?
> I've got
> 
> Because Fukudokko in office is negligent, I will publish the following 
> article and win the gentleman of Fukuokko.
> 
> Bulletin time: Four of Mizukazuki Sakoko
> A treasure and the locality of Orchidori company: None
> that's all
> 
> The sky fox
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:50 AM Josh T  wrote:
>   There is like no good quiet time where I am free to do this, so here it 
> is.
> 在��の福德公が怠慢なので、私は以下の��事を公表して、福德公の��士を�@得されます。
> 
> 公���r�g：水�o月朔日子の四つ
> �m亭社のア宝や地所：なし
> 以上
> 
> 天火狐

DIS: Re: BUS: 蘭亭社簿記

[Quazie]

Can anyone get a good translation?

I've got

Because Fukudokko in office is negligent, I will publish the following
article and win the gentleman of Fukuokko.

Bulletin time: Four of Mizukazuki Sakoko
A treasure and the locality of Orchidori company: None
that's all

The sky fox



On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 10:50 AM Josh T  wrote:

> There is like no good quiet time where I am free to do this, so here it is.
>
> 在職の福德公が怠慢なので、私は以下の記事を公表して、福德公*の*紳士を獲得されます。
>
> 公報時間：水無月朔日子の四つ
> 蘭亭社のア宝や地所：なし
> 以上
>
> 天火狐
>